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Nancy Grace
Hunt for Deadly Disney Gator. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired June 16, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Hunt for deadly Disney gator after a 2-year-old little boy`s body recovered, quote, "intact" 17 long
hours after he`s snatched by a gator while the tot paddles in water, just one foot of water, 10 feet from Mommy, Daddy on the shore of Disney`s posh
Grand Floridian resort hotel.
Bombshell tonight. Question. Why wasn`t there a gator warning on the Disney beach where the tot dragged to his death? A neighboring hotel has a
beware sign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Horror at the happiest place on earth. At Walt Disney World, a frantic search that went from darkness to daylight ends with
heartbreak.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child was found. His body was completely intact.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the peak time for alligator activity right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Outrage! A husband forced to listen while his wife molested and murdered, his little daughters tied to the bed and burned alive. But
tonight, a Connecticut court says the sentence is cruel and reverses the jury verdict!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jennifer Hawke-Petit had been strangled, she and one of her daughters sexually assaulted. Husband William was bound and gagged.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over the course of several hours, Petit says he heard moaning upstairs and a thumping sound. One of the intruders yelled down,
You OK? It`s going to be over in a few minutes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Breaking now, Amber alert, three Idaho children as young as 6 years old on the run with a suspected child molester.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
The hunt for the deadly Disney gator. Right now, we learn a 2-year-old little boy`s body recovered, quote, "intact" 17 long hours after he`s
snatched by a gator, the little boy paddling in water, just one foot of water, only 10 feet from Mommy and Daddy on the shore of Disney`s posh
Grand Floridian resort hotel.
But question. Why wasn`t there a gator warning? The next-door neighbor hotel has one in very plain view.
Joining me right now, CNN correspondent Victor Blackwell. Victor, what is the latest? And what am I hearing about, Victor, they`ve already found
five gators in that body of water?
I mean, Victor, you know, I took my children right there to that water. My son was trying to throw bread out to some ducks while we were trying to get
on a paddle boat. We had no idea. Five gators?
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There are parents all across the country who are watching this show who are shocked to know that there are
gators in that water, and that yes, there was a no swimming sign on that stretch of the Seven Seas Lagoon, but no sign -- we`ve learned from
officials that there was no sign that said beware of gators or do not feed the gators.
They say at the park here that they are now working to determine if their signage is sufficient. Many would argue that it is not.
Now, as it relates to the five gators, those five gators have been pulled from the lagoon. They`re being checked, forensic tested to determine if
one of them is the gator that killed this boy.
Now, Florida Fish and Wildlife says they will continue to work to find the gator. But here`s the problem, Nancy. This is a large body of water that
is connected through canals to other large bodies of water. So there`s no guarantee that this gator is still in that lagoon.
And if they`re going to keep that promise, they`re going to have to expand this search beyond just the Seven Seas Lagoon, which is already massive.
GRACE: OK, this is what I don`t understand. Liz, can you show me the sign of the neighboring hotel? It`s about 10 miles away, though. The
neighboring hotel -- there you go. "Please be aware of alligators, no swimming."
Victor Blackwell, CNN correspondent joining me right there in Orlando, it`s very hard to argue against Disney because Disney has so much -- it`s just
so much good will. People love Disney. It`s a dream come true. It`s where children`s dreams come true. And I speak from experience.
So the problem is, already we know of five gators there. And I know the sign, Victor, says no swimming. But what about no wading? What about no
feeding the ducks bits of bread? I mean, that gator was going to get the little boy no matter what. If he had just been throwing rocks, that gator
was going to get him!
[20:05:06]BLACKWELL: Well, two things. It`s a beach. I mean, if you have a beach by a body of water, what do you expect people will do? Now, this
boy was not swimming. He`s 2 years old. But he was wading in just a foot of water. There is no signage that said no wading.
The other element -- you talked about the gator getting him. Now, gator experts will say that it`s very rare for a gator to attack a human. But if
you think about this, it is in some ways being called the perfect storm. They don`t go after humans, but they do go after small prey. This is a
little boy. Gators are more active at night. This happened at 9:00 PM. Gators become more active in the spring, in May and June. It`s mating
season. This happened just a couple of days ago.
So all of those elements put together, and the parents thinking -- having no idea, I should say, that there are gators in that water just added up to
what again many are calling the perfect storm and the tragic death of this little boy on vacation with his family from Elkhorn, Nebraska.
GRACE: You know, Victor, who is the family? What do we know about them?
BLACKWELL: Matt and Melissa Graves, from, as I said, Elkhorn, Nebraska, here with their two children, a little girl in a playpen, little Lane
Graves there in the water, in about a foot of water. They were here watching a movie outside of the Grand Floridian hotel. They thought they
were safe there, just playing in the water.
We know from the sheriff`s office that they are asking for privacy. They`re privately grieving their son. But they are waiting for the result
of that autopsy and the answers to the questions that we pose tonight about the signage and why they were not alerted that there were gators in that
water.
GRACE: With me on the scene, Victor Blackwell, CNN correspondent. Victor, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s the mom. And as I look, Nancy, there is a woman who is bent over as if she is -- has a horrible stomachache. And the
look on her face, the tears, the pain and the anguish -- she was just sitting there. And then she would stand up, move a few feet, and then
collapse back over again.
It was gut-wrenching. She was inconsolable. She had her couple family members with her. She was surrounded by a police officer who would follow
her everywhere she went because she was just sort of wandering and trying to grasp what had just happened. She was trying to grasp, and just keeling
over. It was a -- it was -- it was -- it`s something that I don`t want to remember because it was that horrible a sight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Ray Caputo, reporter with WDBO, also joining us from the scene. Ray, I understand the little boy was just a few feet away from where the
gator grabbed him?
RAY CAPUTO, WDBO (via telephone): Well, that`s where they found him after, Nancy, only about 10 to 15 yards away, in about 6 feet of water. But you
know, it`s not uncommon for alligators to attack their prey and then drown them and then kind of leave them nearby and then go back and get them
after. And that would explain why when we found the young little boy, his body was intact. There was only some bite marks on him.
GRACE: You know, though, Victor Blackwell, CNN correspondent joining me on the scene, when you say the 2-year-old`s body was intact, what does that
mean? Does that mean the boy died from drowning?
BLACKWELL: Well, the sheriff believes that the boy died from drowning. Of course, it will be that autopsy that will provide the exact cause of death.
Now, that could come out, the preliminary results, in just a couple of days. Typically, it`s only the toxicology that takes some time. But
again, this is a boy who`s 2 years old. There`s no expectation at all that they`ll find anything from toxicology. But again, the sheriff believes
that this boy died as a result of drowning.
GRACE: Well, another issue, Victor Blackwell, you say that they`ve already caught five gators in that one lagoon. How do I know that one of those
gators is the deadly killer gator?
BLACKWELL: Well, they don`t know that yet. At least, they have not said it. Here`s how they`re going to determine. They`re telling us that
they`re going to use forensic testing, through necropsy, to determine exactly if one of these gators is the one that killed that little boy.
Now, I don`t want to get into too many of the indelicate details, but they will be testing it. Now, they`ve killed these five gators...
GRACE: Well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! Victor, you`ve got to give me a little bit more than that. You can`t say, when we`re talking about a
dead 2-year-old boy, that it`s too indelicate, OK? My viewers are used to facts regarding murder scenes. Now, I want to know...
BLACKWELL: OK.
GRACE: ... and I want it straight, how are they going to tell if one of these five gators is the deadly Disney gator?
BLACKWELL: Well, they will have to determine if they find any of the boy`s DNA inside or on any element of those gators.
[20:10:06]Now, there were just minor puncture wounds. So the initial question is, how much of that DNA from this boy will be found inside any of
these gators, potentially? But that testing will happen after they pull these gators. And as we`ve learned from the first five, they`ve been
euthanized.
GRACE: Well, I guess so. How can you test a gator`s teeth if the gator is still alive? Victor -- Victor, I recall just recently, I had the children
also down at the JFK Space Center there in Florida. And I asked the tour guide, Why do all of your chain-link fences go up so high and bend
backward, like they`re doing a back bend toward the viewer, toward the tourist?
They go, Oh, gators. They`ve climbed -- gators have climbed over so many chain-link fences that the fences curve back like an overpass on a bridge.
The gators can actually climb over a chain-link fence, gator -- Victor, because that means that this 2-year-old little boy never had a chance.
Victor, don`t move. I`m being joined right now by a special guest, Dr. Mark Snyder. He is a forensic dentist formally consulting with the
Philadelphia Zoo. Mark, thank you for being with us. Dr. Snyder, there is no nice way to put it. Are they going to try and match up the gator marks,
the bite marks on the little boy, to the gator`s teeth? And how do you do that?
DR. MARK SNYDER, FORENSIC DENTIST (via telephone): Nancy, alligators have different jaw anatomy than humans They`re really not designed to chew.
They have small teeth up front, no molars in the back. So they`re don`t really chew.
What they do when they hunt is they grab their prey with their sharp front teeth and drag their prey into the water and try to drown their prey. So I
would expect that the body would have some puncture wounds of some kind, but no chewing kind of mark.
So I think it`s going to be very difficult for them to match up those puncture wounds, whatever exists, with any specific animal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:14]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A tragic ending after a 16-hour search for a 2-year-old boy who was snatched by an alligator at a Disney resort,
divers finding the body of Lane Graves in the Seven Seas Lagoon on the grounds of the Grand Floridian resort.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our divers were able to locate the body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The look on her face, the tears, the pain and the anguish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Right now, we learn that the little boy`s body was still intact after a 17-hour search. We also learn that this little child, 2-year-old
Lane Graves from Nebraska, on vacation with Mom, Dad and 4-year-old sister, was only a few feet away from where he went missing.
So what I don`t understand, Justin Freiman, is what took 17 hours to find him if he was actually that close to where he was first dragged under
water.
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE producer: Yes, well, the problem is it`s very murky water. And remember, this is a man-made lake, so it also has a lot
of power lines and things like that running there. They can`t just drag things across the bottom to try to find things. They actually had divers
using sonar because the visibility is not very good.
GRACE: So Justin, isn`t it true -- I mean, I`m going query, is Disney in trouble tonight. But in their defense, isn`t it true, that we know of,
they only ever had one gator attack, it was an 8-year-old child that lived. So when was that, in the `80s, like 1986?
FREIMAN: Right, `86. Yes. So right. And that was a little boy who was at a campground area who happened to have been feeding ducks at the time,
according to reports, and this child was bit, but did survive that attack.
GRACE: OK, Justin, why are you saying that to me after I just told you that I let my twins feed ducks right here where this happened? So that`s
how the 8-year-old got bitten, feeding ducks?
FREIMAN: That`s what reports say, correct.
GRACE: OK, here`s the other thing. Liz -- there we are, John David and Lucy and Mommy out on the lagoon. There`s Lucy right there, two feet above
the water.
But isn`t it true, Justin -- Liz, do you have that video -- that recently, I think within the last month or two, other people at the Grand Floridian -
- I think they were there for a wedding. It`s a beautiful -- oh, my stars! There it is! They take this video of a gator. Tell me about that, Justin.
FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy. This video has surfaced of a gator right there outside the Grand Floridian. The thing is, the people who take that
video, according to reports, did not alert anybody at the Disney resort that this gator was there.
GRACE: Unleash lawyers, Kisha Hebbon, New York, Darryl Cohen, Atlanta.
OK, to you, Darryl. I hear what Justin is saying, that the party-goers at the wedding did not alert Disney they had seen a gator. But here`s the
point. If they can look out the window and see the gator in plain view and even video it, unbeknownst to him, he had his four hungry brothers out in
the lagoon, how come Disney didn`t see it?
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Why would Disney see it, Nancy? He`s got a gator. They`re wild. They swim. The water is dark. It`s 9:15 at
night. They have a right...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m talking about at the wedding, Kisha. That`s what I`m talk about. This wedding occurred before Lane was attacked. So if the guests
could see the gator, shouldn`t Disney have seen the gator? That`s what I`m trying to say to you two.
KISHA HEBBON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not necessarily. We don`t know if Disney saw what the wedding goers saw. It`s nature. The water is huge.
GRACE: Well, I know they didn`t. I know they didn`t because I`m sure they would have taken care of it. But I guess my point is not being made.
Ray Caputo, WDBO, if a bunch of wedding partiers reveling see a gator out there, outside the Grand Floridian and take a video of it, shouldn`t the
people in charge of Disney have seen it? How much more plain can I be?
[20:20:15]CAPUTO: Well, here`s the deal, Nancy. There`s an estimated one million-plus gators in the state of Florida, and Disney is, like, 40 square
miles, just Disney World. That`s like as big as San Francisco.
You know what? Down here, it`s just a normal thing to see alligators. You know, I`ve seen them actually in my own neighborhood just north of Orlando.
And the wildlife people say, Are they bothering anybody? No. Well, then call us if they do. So really, it`s not out of the ordinary.
So Disney`s response is not uncommon if they didn`t, you know, jump on the fact that somebody saw a gator because there are just -- there are so many
around.
GRACE: You know, speaking of, is Disney in trouble, is Disney not in trouble -- another issue, Ray Caputo is this. There`s an area of law
called act of nature or act of God. How can you control -- how can Disney control a gator? Five gators, you can`t see in the water. How can Disney
be responsible for that, Caputo? Or can they?
CAPUTO: They can`t. Here`s the thing, Nancy. Disney is a very unique company. In fact, it`s the only company in the U.S. that I know of, maybe
in the world, where they actually run their own private government. They have their own fire department. They build their own roads. They handle
this stuff on their own, and they run a really tight ship.
So when things like this happen, you can be confident that the company does correct itself because they don`t need any lawsuits right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:45]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a little boy waded in the water at the edge of a lagoon, a family vacation turned into a nightmare when an
alligator dragged 2-year-old Lane Graves into the water.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities say as the four to seven-foot alligator snatched the toddler, the boy`s father struggled to pry the gator`s jaws
open, but it quickly disappeared under water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was police tape that had been placed in the beach area, that area that you`ve been in. That was all cordoned off. But
everyone was coming up to the sidewalk and looking towards the beach and beginning to gather.
And as 20 people gathered, then 30 people gathered. When we got up to about 50 people, the Disney folks came out and started asking people to
please go back to their rooms. Please don`t gather. We would ask them what happened. They said, We can`t talk about it.
And so as we were all moving, what happened? Oh, I saw some -- I started asking folks some questions. You know what happened? Oh, it`s all over
social media.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The victim in this case is a 2-year-old little boy, this boy not far away from Mommy and Daddy, there for the vacation of a lifetime, there
at the posh Grand Floridian resort hotel at Disney. It`s absolutely beautiful.
That night, everyone was gathering outside. It was time for a movie on the grounds, where families from all over the world gather outside in the
cooling night air to watch a movie projected up on a giant screen outside the Grand Floridian. Fireworks were going off in the distance.
It was the end of the Disney grand finale every day, the Disney parade, when this child, there with Mommy and Daddy in just a foot of water -- a
foot of water was attacked and dragged under by a gator.
Joining me, Jordan Munns, owner of Wild Florida Airboats, alligator expert. Jordan, thank you for being with us. This is a big concern for me. I
don`t know how they`re going to tell if we`ve got the right gator, but if you -- if a gator attacks a human, does it make that particular gator more
likely to attack a human again?
JORDAN MUNNS, GATOR EXPERT (via telephone): Yes, Nancy. Typically, when an alligator will attack a human, they may do that again. The reason that
-- and in this case, it`s actually very difficult because it`s a young child. But when a gator loses its fear of humans, they become very
dangerous, and then have to be removed from their wild state to make sure it doesn`t happen again. So it very well could happen again if this gator
does not get captured.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." And of course, all the lawyers are screaming, Ah-ha, that shows that they
were wrong and this is indicia of guilt because now they`re correcting it.
I disagree, Bethany. I think it`s the only decent and correct thing for them to do. It doesn`t mean that they knew there were gators out there or
they had done anything necessarily wrong. It means they`re trying to correct a problem that now they know about.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Absolutely, Nancy! I mean, this family, in a sense, got set up. So did the gator. It`s like a perfect storm for a
child being snatched. Where is the responsibility of this resort to warn and educate their guests?
In my field, we have a duty to warn and educate of possible dangers of everything -- side effects of medications, if you start therapy, you might
be temporarily more anxious. We warn our patients. Why did this resort not warn their guests?
And you know, Nancy, you said it`s the happiest place on earth. You took, you know, little Lucy and John David. And you look at those buildings and
the sandy beach, and it gives the illusion of safety.
GRACE: You know, you`re right. And I don`t know what the answer is tonight. Did they owe a duty? Did they realize about the gators?
To Dr. Mark Snyder, forensic dentist joining us. He is former consultant with the Philadelphia Zoo. Mark, another thing about determining is this
the right gator, have we euthanized the right gator, the killer gator, with the bite mark. You`re a forensic dentist, isn`t it true that with human
flesh, it`s very difficult to compare bite marks because flesh is movable. It`s not firm.
And so I don`t know that that could necessarily match up to a gator`s mouth. They have horrible but very, very identifiable teeth, right?
DR. MARK SNYDER, FORENSIC DENTIST: Nancy, you`re really right. With human bite marks, they have recently been discredited in the court -- in the
courtroom because of these kinds of situations you`re talking about.
But with this kind of animal and this situation, it would have to be some very unique bite marks and puncture wounds that would be matched up with
the victim. And I think that`s a long shot.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Crime-victim-turned-crime-fighter, Hailey Dean, is back in "Murder in the Courthouse."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The unstoppable prosecutor digs in to track down a killer. But could she wind up the next victim? Find out in the third book
in Nancy`s best-selling series.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Portions of proceeds go to Help Find Missing Children! Thank you.
Outrage. A husband is forced to listen while his wife is molested and murdered. He is beaten nearly dead. His daughters tied to their beds and
burned alive. But tonight, a Connecticut court says the sentence on these murderers, the sentence on them is cruel, and the court reverses the jury
verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hayley`s charred body was found at the top of the stairs. Her younger sister tied to her bed, their mother on the first
floor. Dr. Petit, who was tied up in the basement, survived, forcing his way through the fire up the stairs and outside, beaten and bloodied.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: One of the worst crime scenes ever in that jurisdiction. What can we learn from the 911 call? Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a lady who is in our bank right now who says that her husband and children are being held at their house. The people are
in a car outside the bank. She is getting $15,000 to bring out to them. That if the police are told, they will kill her children and the husband.
Her name is Jennifer Petit, P-E-T-I-T. She lives at (BLEEP). She says they`re being very nice. They have their faces covered. She is petrified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Steve Kalb joining me, reporter of Connecticut Radio Network. Steve, thank you for being with us. If that call, that 911 call, was made when Ms.
Petit was in the bank, what happened? Why is it they ended up being molested and murdered?
STEVE KALB, CONNECTICUT RADIO NETWORK REPORTER: As we know it, the story goes that police -- once police were notified in real time, they setup a
perimeter around the house and were establishing that perimeter for at least 30 minutes.
GRACE: Oh. Oh. Michael Christian, what can you tell me about the crime? And I want to warn you, the photos we are showing are graphic crime scene
photos. Go ahead, Liz. Michael?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, it is -- as you say, just horrendous. Dr. Petit was attacked first. He was asleep. He was beaten in
the head with a baseball bat, then taken to the basement of the house and tied up. The perpetrators then went upstairs. They tied Michaela Petit to
her bed. They tied Hayley Petit to her bed. Those girls were 17 and 11. And then they tied Mrs. Petit to her bed. Eventually, they released her so that
she could go withdraw the money that we just saw that clip from.
GRACE: Ryan D`Agostino with me, author of "The Rising- Murder, Heartbreak and the Power of Human Resilience in an American Town". The story of these
murders.
Ryan D`Agostino, thank you for being with us. I am absolutely stunned that this poor man who is beaten nearly dead hears his wife being molested in
the next room, a daughter is molested; they`re murdered, they`re burned alive. And now outrage, the perps are going to escape the sentence. Ryan,
what do you recall from the murders?
RYAN D`AGOSTINO, "THE RISING" AUTHOR: Well, the sort of amazing thing is that Dr. Petit didn`t know what was happening at the time that the crimes
were being committed.
He was beaten, as you said, nearly to death and was tied up in the basement for hours, almost seven hours. He lost so much blood, he was in and out of
consciousness, did not know that upstairs his wife and daughters were being tortured and eventually murdered.
He found that out later at the hospital. So -- and then he emerges from that, you know, torture of himself to have to deal with what comes next.
GRACE: Shame. Shame on a jury verdict being reversed in this manner. To Dr. Lee Norman, Chief Medical Officer, University of Kansas Hospital. If the
bodies were burned so badly, how could they determine cause of death?
DR. LEE NORMAN, UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS HOSPITAL CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER: Well, sometimes they cannot. Most of the time, if the body isn`t overly charred
and if it`s intact enough, they can get some indications, but it isn`t always possible.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Breaking right now, amber alert. Three Idaho children as young as just six years old, on the run with a suspected child molester.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Urgent! Three children are missing and believed to be with a woman and her boyfriend, a suspected child molester. Amber alerts
issued in Nevada and Idaho. The children are feared to be in imminent danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Put the -- oh, look at them. Look at them. These children, there is three of them as young as 6 years old, with
a child molester.
This is mommy`s boyfriend. I just -- Nate Eaton, reporter with eastidahonews.com, help me. Where do we think they are and why is the dad
so upset? He believes these children are being molested. What do we know, Nate?
NATE EATON, EASTIDAHONEWS.COM REPORTER: Well, we know that these children have vanished with these two adults. They were last spotted at the end of
May. That`s when cops actually received a tip that Jason "Travis" Simon was performing child pornography.
Deputies get a search warrant. They go out to the house and when they get there, Sarah VanOcker-Dunn and Simon have vanished with the two children.
They have not been spotted since then. That was back on June 2nd. And as of tonight, it`s anybody`s guess where they could be.
GRACE: And how can the mother go along with this? We`ve got to find these three children. I`m hearing in my ear, I`m being joined right now by the
adoptive father of two of these missing children. Jesse Dunn is with us.
Mr. Dunn, oh, dear, is that the guy, Liz, that you keep showing me that is taking photos? Is that him? Is that the perp? Oh, oh, oh. This is Jason
"Travis" Simon, 37 years old. He is with the stepmother of Kaylee and Lewis.
Jesse Dunn, thank you for being with us. When did you realize the children are missing?
JESSE DUNN, ADOPTIVE DAD OF TWO OF THE MISSING KIDS: I realized this on the 2nd.
GRACE: Explain to me why you are so convinced that this is nefarious, that this is bad.
DUNN: I`m convinced because the evidence that was brought to me initially on this case.
GRACE: And what is the evidence?
DUNN: I saw a proven fact. I saw evidence that my child is in danger, ma`am.
GRACE: Do you have any doubt in your mind, Mr. Dunn? With me is the adoptive father of two of these little children who is fighting desperately
to bring the children home. Are you convinced this guy is a child molester?
DUNN: I am 110 percent convinced. I do not have a doubt with the proven facts that have been brought to me.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, Psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers." Why, why would a mother go along with this?
DR. BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, she is more bonded with this suspected perpetrator than with her own children. I mean, the minute the
porn was reported to the police department, she began to collude with him in not wanting him arrested. And that`s why she took these three kids on
the run with him ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Awful, awful.
MARSHALL: ... and the likelihood is, Nancy, that he is obsessed with the daughter.
GRACE: She needs to be charged right along with him. Stacey Newman, what is our best bet? Where were they last seen? And these sightings are credible?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we think Nevada. We know they probably traveled about a thousand miles, Idaho, California, Nevada, and
possibly heading to Oregon.
GRACE: Now, OK. Let me understand something. Nate Eaton with eastidahonews.com. You heard what Stacey Newman just said.
Why do we think they`re there? Everybody, we`re looking for a gold 2006 Pontiac Montana, Idaho tag 2, C - Charlie, J - Joy, N - Nancy, 6-8-3-,
2CJN683. A gold 20006 Pontiac Montana.
Nate, why are we sure? Are the sightings credible?
EATON: Well, yes. The police tell us that there has been a confirmed sighting in California. There have been some unconfirmed sightings in
Nevada. Interestingly, hours after police went to their house in Idaho, this couple and the children were spotted buying camping equipment about 25
miles from their home.
So police believe at this point they could literally be camping anywhere in California, in Nevada, in Oregon, anywhere in the western United States or
across America, frankly.
GRACE: Please, please, help us bring these children home. Tip line is 208- 454-7531, 208-454-7531.
Parenting with a Down`s child is challenging, and it`s even harder when families experience negative reaction from others -- neighbors, friends.
Nancy Gianni is working to change that. She is this week`s CNN Hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GIANNI, CNN HERO: Our kids wear their diagnosis on their face, so they are judged from the minute they wake up in the morning, anywhere they
go, whatever they do. So, we do have a lot to prove. We have to show that we can, we will learn to do everything everybody else does. It might just
take us a little bit longer but we`re going to do it. And you need to believe in us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To see how she is changing the lives of people with Down`s, go to CNNHeroes.com and nominate someone to be the 2016 CNN hero.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Armed, dangerous, wanted by the FBI. One man, believe it or not, a firefighter, wanted for the horrific triple murder of his 38-year-old wife
and their two children.
He shoots his wife in the head, slashes her throat, and those of his own children, reports say he then covers up the crime, rigging their Scottsdale
home to explode.
John Walsh, host of "The Hunt with John Walsh," is on "The Hunt," season three premiering Sunday, June 19, HLN, 9:00 p.m.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something went wrong in my brother`s mind to allow him to kill the people that he loved most.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Robert Fisher was added to the FBI`s 10 most wanted list. We`ve tracked leads all over the world on Robert Fisher.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe he is still alive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If Robert is alive, I hope that he would turn himself in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: John Walsh, famous in so many ways, but a tireless crusader. John, I am so honored that you are with us. And I want to talk about this guy that
you specifically are hunting. What do we know about Robert Fisher? How did he slip through our fingers?
JOHN WALSH, "THE HUNT WITH JOHN WALSH" HOST: First, let me say it is great to talk to you. You and I have been friends a hundred years, so it`s ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Tell it.
WALSH: ... wonderful to be on your show.
GRACE: Hey, speak for yourself. I told the twins I`m 11-1/2, OK? So, forget the hundred years thing.
I just can`t believe this guy, after a horrific triple homicide, has managed to slip through our fingers. How did it happen, John?
WALSH: Horrible guy. A low-life coward and I think he planned for it, Nancy. He just wanted to get rid of the wife. She was going to divorce him,
so half the country is divorced.
So, you divorce your wife and you leave her alone and you do the best you can for your kids. But this guy has to slit his children`s throats in their
bed, put a bullet in their bed, and then he rigs the house because he is a firefighter.
He opens the gas, fumes in the house, puts accelerant around the kids` beds and his wife`s bed, put an old trick, arsonist trick, of a candle lit,
plenty of time for him to get out.
The gas goes up to the top of the ceiling, it takes hours for it to come down and the house explodes.
He thinks he is going to get away with it. But he planned it. You know, they found his car in a national park 10 days later with his do and I
believe right to this minute, that he is still out there, the arrogant low- life coward that he is, and he is just lucky as hell that we haven`t been able to catch him.
GRACE: Let me understand something. Everyone, with me is a very special guest and long-time friend of mine, a true crime fighter in every sense of
the word. He has lived it. He has lived the pain of being a crime victim and has devoted his life to crime victims.
John Walsh, you mentioned something that`s very disturbing. It is all disturbing but if you could see my -- the hair on my arm right now when you
said he poured accelerant around the beds of his children?
WALSH: Absolutely. I mean, this is the biggest coward. You know, you and I have talked over the years of who do you want to catch the most? He has
always been in my personal top 10.
And the FBI has been looking for him for years. I`ve profiled him several times on America`s Most Wanted. We just couldn`t get him. We got tips over
the years.
He is smart. Don`t discount this guy. He is smart. He thought he could get away with it. I say he might possibly be hiding out in Canada. He is an
outdoorsman. I`ve caught several guys up in Canada that worked as guides or hunting guides under the radar for cash. It is way past time for this
family, this loving family of these two little -- these two kids and his wife`s loving family, to see this guy pay for this, pay for it.
GRACE: You know, John, everyone with me, John Walsh. It`s 1-866-THE HUNT, 1-866-843-4868. There`s a $100,000 reward. Let me see John Walsh, please. A
$100,000 reward.
OK, that`s one place I don`t want to be on John Walsh`s personal top 10 most wanted list. OK. I`m going to stay off that. OK?
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: You`re on the ...
GRACE: Don`t put me ...
WALSH: ... You`re on the good guy side.
GRACE: You know what? Everyone, one more reminder. Season three premiere, June 19. I`m going to be in front of my T.V. watching one of my heroes,
John Walsh.
WALSH: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: Now we honor American hero Orlando shooting survivor, Imran Yousuf, a Marine Vet and bouncer at Pulse, runs to open a door in a hail of
bullets, allowing dozens to run to safety. Imran Yousuf, American hero.
Wesley Glen, home for the handicapped, raising donations for the Father`s Day campaign. Please help the needy. Go to wesleyglenministries.com.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern. And
until then, good night, friend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER THOMAS, "FORENSIC FILES" NARRATOR: While on a business trip in 1986, Ed Post spent out (ph) the morning jogging ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
END
