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Nancy Grace
Deadly Police Shooting in Minnesota Caught on Tape; Husband Mercilessly Beats Wife In Front of Newborn; CNN Hero Helping Adopt Older Dogs. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 07, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RITA COSBY, GUEST HOST: Breaking news, Falcon Heights, Minnesota. Graphic video captures the immediate aftermath of a police shooting during a
traffic stop, Philando Castile seen dying as his fiancee and her young daughter, both in the car, stare horrified. Warning, the video you`re
about to see is graphic and very disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re out here to assassinate us!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reesie (ph) had a firearm, and he was reaching for his wallet, and the officer just shot him. He just shot his arm off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can hear Castile moaning and see an officer with his gun still drawn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murderers!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are here to kill us because we are black!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And to Atlanta, a mom and baby held captive, the beautiful mother tortured for days in her own home, the alleged culprit, her husband.
Warning, you are about to see graphic photos of the horror this woman endured. And this photo here is just the tip of the iceberg.
And good evening everybody. I am Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for being with us.
Breaking news tonight, Falcon Heights, Minnesota. Graphic video captures the immediate aftermath of a police shooting during a traffic stop,
Philando Castile seen dying as his fiancee and her young daughter, both in the car, stare horrified. Warning, the video that you are about to see is
very graphic and very disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stay with me. We got pulled over for a busted taillight in the back, and the police just -- he`s -- he`s -- he`s covered
(ph). They killed my boyfriend. He`s licensed, he`s carrying. So he`s licensed to carry. He was trying to get out his ID and his wallet out his
pocket, and he let the officer know that he was -- he had a firearm, and he was reaching for his wallet. And the officer just shot him in his arm.
We`re waiting for...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands on the wheel!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will, sir. No worries. I will. He just shot his arm off. We got pulled over on (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told him not to reach for it! I told him to get his hand out!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You told him to get his ID, sir, his driver`s license. Oh, my God. Please don`t tell me he`s dead. Please don`t tell
me my boyfriend just went like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep your hands where they are, please!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I will, sir. I`ll keep my hands where they are. Please, don`t tell me this, Lord. Please don`t tell me that he`s gone.
Please don`t tell me that he`s gone. Please, Officer, don`t tell me that you just did this to him. You shot four bullets into him, sir. He was
just getting his license and registration, sir!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Unbelievable. And that video lasts for minutes.
Let`s go to Andrew Lee. He is with KTLK, AM 1130, a host there. Andrew, what happened? This is unbelievable to see this!
ANDREW LEE, KTLK (via telephone): Well, as you saw on the video, I mean, this is a -- this is a shocking and tragic turn of events. The video
starts shortly after the shooting, and what you see there is essentially what we know at this point.
There`s been a handful of press conferences since that event, but we really haven`t gotten new information. They haven`t released the officer`s name.
They -- as far as we know, they haven`t even interviewed the officers until sometime this afternoon.
So we don`t know the officer`s version of what happened. But it appears that this officer made a very tragic judgment call when deciding to open
fire on this person, on Castile.
COSBY: Yes, it certainly looks that way. And Matt Zarrell, NANCY GRACE producer, what do we know? What`s the whole reason -- take us from the
very beginning. Why did he stop this guy with this woman? And it looks like there`s a baby also in the car.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Rita, according to the girlfriend, they were stopped over a busted taillight.
COSBY: Wait, a busted taillight is what started it, and he ends up dead?
ZARRELL: Correct, a busted taillight. The child in the car is the 4-year- old daughter of the girlfriend, who is engaged to marry the victim.
COSBY: Let me play a little bit more. Again, this is very graphic video. This is her talking with her daughter, who`s also in the car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t be scared. My daughter just witnessed this. The police just shot him for no apparent reason, no reason at all. They
asked for license and registration. That`s the police officer over there that did it, with the black on him. I can`t really do (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
because they got me handcuffed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s OK, Mommy!
[20:05:02]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t believe they just did this! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s OK. I`m right here with you!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: I want to go to Anwar Sanders, New Mexico police officer. Anwar, when I see this, this to me is so shocking. It`s so emotional to see this
woman, and we`re literally seeing this guy dying. She`s Facebook Live-ing. And again, she`s talking to all her Facebook followers. And again, this
starts after the shooting has happened.
But what is your immediate reaction seeing this? This is just so gripping and it makes it so real. It`s so horrifying to see.
ANWAR SANDERS, NEW MEXICO POLICE OFFICER: First, I want to send my condolences out to that family. Obviously, this is extremely tragic. The
video, the first time I saw it, it did not look good. It -- obviously, seeing anyone die is horrible. It didn`t look good. The officer -- his
comments weren`t the best. It just didn`t look good. It was really scary. It had my heart beating really fast the first time I saw it, for sure.
COSBY: Yes, mine, too. Let`s go to Andrew Lee, again the host with KTLK. You know, we talked about -- Anwar talked about the cop`s reaction.
Through all of this, it`s amazing that she is able to be contained to actually film this. The cop, however, seems like he`s freaked out.
LEE: Yes, her composure is stunning. And you know, it`s possible that she was in a bit of state of shock there, but -- especially at the very
beginning, when she is calmly narrating the events. And this is being broadcast live, keep in mind. This is live on Facebook. This is not being
recorded and then uploaded later.
She had the wherewithal and the frame of mind to start broadcasting this live to get her side -- at least her side of this information out there.
And I commend her for that and I also commend the police officers for not interfering with that because we`ve seen instances before where...
COSBY: Although, apparently, there is a time where the phone is taken. There is a time when it`s taken away.
LEE: It is taken away, but it is never -- she`s never told to stop recording or stop broadcasting.
COSBY: Good point.
LEE: But you can clearly hear the anguish in the officer`s voice, the disbelief, it sounds like to me, of what had happened and what he had done.
And you hear him in the background later in the video just cursing and yelling and so very upset at what had happened here.
COSBY: Yes, Rosa Flores, CNN correspondent at the governor`s mansion there, explain what you know from there. I understand also the governor
did a press conference and he basically said it looks like it`s over the top.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the governor revealing several details that we, of course, did not know, him saying that the officer is
being interviewed by the state agency that is in charge of this investigation.
As you know, in officer-involved shootings, there`s usually an agency separate from the police -- from the police force where this happened, that
takes care of that. So that is what`s going on today. There are -- they are investigating. They are gathering evidence, some of that evidence that
video that you were just talking about, and of course, interviewing witnesses, a key witness, as you know, that police officer who fired those
shots.
COSBY: Now, let`s go to Matt Zarrell, NANCY GRACE producer. Matt, walk us through because Rosa was just saying, explaining the investigation,
because, boy, there needs to be one here. But Matt, walk us through -- even we hear from the woman on tape. She says he was going to get his
wallet. Walk us through what he was doing, what we know he was doing, or at least what she says he was doing at the time.
ZARRELL: Yes, what she says is that -- she said he asked him for -- the officer asked her boyfriend for his license and registration, which was in
his back pocket because he keeps his wallet in his back pocket. And as he went to reach, he let the officer know before he was reaching that he had a
firearm on him. And before he can let the officer know anything else, the officer took multiple shots, at least four or five rounds.
COSBY: Four or five rounds when he`s just apparently getting his registration. Is that right?
ZARRELL: That`s our understanding. And I should point out that there is one report from a witness, an unnamed witness, who says she saw the whole
scene unfold, and she heard the officer say, Put your hands up, and before he could even finish saying, Put your hands up, there were four gunshots.
COSBY: Now, where was the gun, Matt Zarrell, because -- and do we know that, was there a gun recovered at the scene?
ZARRELL: We know there was a gun recovered from the scene that has been sent in for processing. We know that the victim`s family says that he has
a concealed weapons permit.
COSBY: Where was the gun, Matt?
ZARRELL: (INAUDIBLE) we do not know.
COSBY: We don`t know where the gun was. We don`t know if it was in the glove compartment, on his person? We don`t know that, Matt.
ZARRELL: No we don`t.
COSBY: All right, let`s go to Andrew Lee. Do you know any more about where the gun was and what type of gun was recovered, Andrew?
[20:10:02]LEE: I know it was a handgun, and as far as a specific type, I haven`t been able to get that information. At the press conference this
morning, Reynolds, the girlfriend, indicated that the gun was in a holster in his waist. And that he -- when he reached for his wallet, it may have
looked like he was reaching for the gun.
COSBY: Now, let me ask you really quick there, Andrew -- when you say in his waist, on the front part, on the back part? Do we know where on his
waist this holster was?
LEE: According to the girlfriend, again, at the press conference this morning, it was in the front of his waist.
COSBY: In the front of his waist. Do we know if it was visible to the cop? Do we know that, Andrew?
LEE: I do not believe that it was, no.
COSBY: Do we know for a fact that the cop knew he had a gun? We know what we`re hearing from her, but do we know that the cop knew prior to pulling
him over, or at least, you know, in the process before this happened?
LEE: We don`t know what he knew prior to pulling him over, but according to her, he informed him. He volunteered the information, without being
asked, to the police officer that he was carrying a firearm.
COSBY: What I`m asking you, Andrew, is this according to her or is this according the cops?
LEE: The according to her. There`s been no statement released from the officer that was involved in the shooting at this time.
COSBY: Let`s go to Rosa Flores, CNN correspondent. Rosa, what do we know about this cop?
FLORES: Well, we know very little about the police officer at this point in time, Rita. This is very much like all of the other officer-involved
shootings that we cover, unfortunately.
And that is, we usually know more about the individual who was shot very quickly. We hear from family members. In this particular case, we know
that this man worked at the school district in the cafeteria portion, the school district releasing a statement saying that he was one of their own,
that he graduated from the St. Paul school district high school.
In this particular case, we know very little about this officer because he`s being interviewed by authorities today. Now, we know, from the
governor speaking to the media earlier today, that his name will be released today at some point. We don`t know when that is. But the key
here is that authorities are interviewing him, and until they`re done doing that, is when they plan to release his name.
COSBY: And Matt Zarrell, do we know -- does this guy have a criminal record? Do we know if he was -- Castile, if he had any criminal
background? Was there any drugs found on his person?
ZARRELL: No. He had very, very extremely minor traffic citations, nothing that would really land you in any kind of jail or in any kind of serious
trouble.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:38]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He never did anything to hurt anyone. He was the quietest, most laid-back person you would ever meet!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The immediate aftermath of the shooting was captured by Castile`s girlfriend, Diamond Reynolds, on a dramatic Facebook Live video.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing within his body said, Shoot me! Nothing within his body language said, Kill me, I want to be dead!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And lots of emotions at this hour. This is Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace.
Let`s go to Arthur Roderick, CNN law enforcement analyst. You know, Arthur, there are so many questions tonight. First of all, it is heart-
breaking to see this on videotape. And this looks bad. Walk us through what cops are instructed to do and what is the procedure because we`re just
hearing that this guy was shot four or five times. And according to the woman, he is just grabbing to go get his license. What are cops trained to
do?
ARTHUR RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Rita, one of the most difficult issues that law enforcement faces is traffic stops because you
never know who you have in the vehicle. Generally, what happens is...
COSBY: And -- but -- and by the way, Arthur...
RODERICK: ... they pull the vehicle over...
COSBY: Arthur, I want to say one thing. I have two dear friends of mine who were cops when I worked in Charlotte, North Carolina. They were
executed...
RODERICK: Right.
COSBY: ... when they were doing a routine stop. So I want you to know I am a huge supporter of the cops, and I understand how tough their job is
every single day!
RODERICK: And it is the toughest when you pull somebody over and you have no idea who`s in the vehicle. They run that license plate, OK? They check
for that individual that that vehicle is registered to for prior criminal history or any warrants they have out on them.
And then they approach the vehicle. When they approach that vehicle, they usually look to see if the trunk`s closed. They look to see who`s in the
back seat because we`ve had incidences where individuals have executed law enforcement officers coming out of an unlocked trunk. They look to see
who`s in the back seat. Then they...
COSBY: And in this case, it`s a 4-year-old daughter, 4-year-old child in the back seat.
RODERICK: Yes. You know, Rita, this is disturbing. This whole video is very disturbing. It`s almost indefensible. But having said that, we don`t
have video of what actually occurred between the officer and Castile in the initial confrontation, nor do we have video of the actual shooting.
COSBY: Yes, and by the way, that -- by the way...
RODERICK: All we have is the video of a post-shooting.
COSBY: That is a very important point because there are no body cameras, from what I understand, in this police district.
RODERICK: Right.
COSBY: It wasn`t a question of turning off the cameras or anything like that. And we don`t know what happened before.
RODERICK: Right.
COSBY: But are they trained -- say the cop is thinking, OK, you know, he sees the gun. He`s worried the guy`s going for the gun versus the wallet
versus the ID. Is it normal procedure, Arthur -- what I`m asking you -- is to go four or five shots? Why not, if you`re worried about the guy,
incapacitate him? He looks clearly -- do you need to do four or five shots?
RODERICK: Well, it`s very difficult when you`re in that type of split- second decision-making process to determine, Do I fire once, twice, three - - it`s all based on the type of training that they go through at the range.
COSBY: And by the way...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: This cop seems nervous, too, very much. You can tell. He`s panicking (ph).
RODERICK: Yes, of course he is. It`s stressful -- it`s absolutely stressful for a law enforcement to be involved in a shooting situation.
I`ve been involved in a shooting situation. I`ve actually investigated shooting situations, and it`s highly stressful all the way around.
So I`m not taking anything away from the victim, but it`s very stressful on law enforcement officers to be involved in these situations. They don`t
get up every morning and say, Hey, I`m going to go shoot somebody or I`m going to violate somebody`s civil rights.
[20:20:10]This all comes down to -- and I think a couple of your other speakers have mentioned it -- what was his decision-making process in the
exact moment he determined to pull the trigger? Because we know he`s legally there. There was a legal traffic stop that we know of...
COSBY: Right, but what we know is it`s a busted taillight -- a busted taillight. Let me -- let me bring in Anwar, actually. Anwar, what do you
think? And I guess one thing I want to ask you, too, Anwar, as a police officer, do you think he was aware he had a gun before the guy verbally
telling him? Like, if he`s pulling over, OK, it`s a traffic light, it`s a busted light, we understand either a taillight or a front light. We`re
hearing two different versions here -- but a busted light. We know it`s a traffic stop.
Does he know, OK, the guy, you know, is legally allowed. I`m seeing this up on the screen. Is he going on in his mindset, This is who I`m
approaching?
SANDERS: Right. Well, you assume everybody has a weapon. That`s just part of being an officer. That`s -- a good cop`s going to do that.
But if someone tells you they have a gun, your whole traffic stop process changes, OK? You`re not going to tell somebody to put your hands up and
then reach for your wallet. Your process changes. It`s, put your hands on the dashboard, OK? Don`t move them. I`m going to reach for your weapon,
take it, disarm it, and step out of the vehicle.
It`s not, Put your hands up, now go get your license. That`s just not how it works. And it`s hard to speculate too much because we don`t have any
dashcam or any bodycam video. So we don`t know what the conversation was between the officer and Castile.
COSBY: Yes, we don`t know. We don`t know. We do hear, though, there is a witness, though, out there who`s apparently saying that she heard him say,
Put your hands up. He`s putting his hands up, and next thing she knows, she hears a number of shots. That doesn`t sound good, Anwar.
SANDERS: I have to agree. That does not sound good. And I have to piggyback off what the analyst said, is that stuff is highly stressful.
And no one wakes up saying, I want to get into one of these situations, when they wake up. It is -- it`s so unfortunate, and that officer is
highly stressed out.
COSBY: Yes. Absolutely. Let`s go to Sam Castile. And by the way, I get how tough that job is. I have a lot of friends who are cops. I`ve lost
friends who are cops. So I understand how tough that is.
Sam Castile, this is your grandson who was killed here on this video. I cannot even imagine. I want you to explain to us who this man was because
he was working at a school district. You know, he was working in nutrition. This is someone who sounds like was just a wonderful grandson
to you.
SAM CASTILE, VICTIM`S GRANDFATHER (via telephone): He was.
COSBY: Yes, tell me about him a little bit so we see him because, you know, we`re unfortunately seeing him as we`ve seen through the Facebook.
Tell us a bit about Philando.
CASTILE: Well, there ain`t too much I can tell you. About all I can tell you, he was a good man -- was a good man before he got shot down by the
police. And I can`t understand why.
(INAUDIBLE) I was listening to that dead (ph) man talking. He was saying when the traffic stop -- and he go to the car and even look in to see if
anybody in there with you, he feel like -- did he feel like that little baby there that was in the back seat was going to shoot him down or
something?
COSBY: Why did -- Sam, let me ask you, why did he have a carry permit? Why was he allowed to have a gun? Was there something that happened?
CASTILE: (INAUDIBLE) thing about it. I didn`t even know the young man had a gun.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:27:28]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... pulled over allegedly for a broken taillight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They left him sitting in the car after they shot him!
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody takes his pulse?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reynolds live-streaming video from inside the car with her 4-year-old daughter in the back seat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police officer that shot him was still standing there...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one checked his pulse?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... with his gun still drawn after he was shot!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Unbelievable footage. This is Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace tonight.
Let`s go to Matt Zarrell. Matt, quick question. We`re seeing this footage that we`ve been showing. This is the Facebook Live footage from the woman
who was in the car. It`s her boyfriend, of course, who we know has now died from this police shooting.
Do we know if there`s dashcam footage? Is there video from any surveillance cameras, anything in the area, Matt?
ZARRELL: Well, that`s a good question because even if a dashcam was parked at an angle where you couldn`t actually see the shooting, the dashcam, in
theory, would pick up audio. So you`d get an idea of when the gunshots were fired compared to when he was instructing the victim to get his hands
out.
COSBY: Do we know if any video exists at this point?
ZARRELL: As of now, we do not know.
COSBY: Let`s go to Dr. Lee Norman, chief medical officer, University, of Kansas Hospital. Dr. Norman, we`re hearing again different reports that
there were three shots, four shots, five shots. (INAUDIBLE) obviously. You see the footage there.
The girlfriend is saying in the video that he shot him in the arm. Obviously, it looks like whatever, the bullet went through the chest. Walk
us through what you are physically seeing.
DR. LEE NORMAN, UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS HOSPITAL: Well, there`s also blood on his shirt. So it`s a little bit difficult to know the exact angle of the
shooting. But it certainly appears some of the internal thoracic organs that were vital.
COSBY: Yes. The other thing, too -- can you tell -- and I think this is a very important question. Can you tell if he was leaning forward when he
was shot? In other words, we don`t know what happened prior to the footage of what we`re seeing so far. Could he have been maybe lunging at the
officer? Is there any other scenario that -- that it would show, or could it show that he was, indeed, leaning back and trying to grab his wallet?
NORMAN: Well, they`ll be able to show to a degree his body positioning by the trajectory that the bullet took through the body or the bullets took
through the body. They will not be able to tell you where his hands are, but they`ll be able to tell you if he was leaning forward, leaning
sideways, leaning back.
COSBY: So we will know if he was in another place other than what she is saying, probably.
NORMAN: Yes, there will be pretty good evidence for that, sure.
COSBY: OK. Let`s go, if we could, to Dr. Daniel Bober, a forensic psychiatrist. I have so many questions to ask you, Dr. Bober. First off,
we are hearing that there sort of different stories from the woman -- not a lot of difference. She was pretty consistent on the tape. But at one
point, she says it`s the taillight. And one point, she says said it`s front light there. At another point, she says it`s four shots. Another
time, it`s five shots. Is that normal? I mean, it`s in the middle of crisis, obviously.
BOBER: Rita, you know, we hear so much about these cases all over the country and we have to acknowledge that we`re human beings.
We come with our own pre-conceived notions, our own biases, our own prejudices, so we tend to view the situation in a certain way because of
our own experiences.
And in the heat of the moment when the fight or flight response kicks in, there`s a complete distortion of events and reality. And so there might be
people who perceive an event a certain way and then others that see it completely differently.
So, I think it would be important to find out what happened with this officer during this traffic stop and what his version of events are, I
think, but ultimately, there`s still a lot of missing pieces of information and we tend to rush to judgment in these situations. And I think we really
need to reserve it until we have all the facts.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND REYNOLDS, VICTIM`S FIANCEE: I`m outraged, and anybody that saw that video, they should be outraged, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... police shooting in Minnesota, traffic stopped as it unfolded. A woman trying to make sense of a police shooting as her
boyfriend lay dying of his wounds.
REYNOLDS: Nothing within his body said shoot me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Unbelievable footage, all on camera. And it just makes this so real and so horrifying.
Let`s go to Anwar Sanders, New Mexico Police officer. I want to ask you, and I think this is an important question I`ll ask, Anwar. We have got a
cop who we`re hearing we think he was Chinese, the one with the gun. There`s another white officer on the scene. The others are African-American
who are -- was race a factor here? What do you believe?
SANDERS: I do. I have to be honest. Usually you stay kind of reserved with these responses, but it`s this institutionalized racism that we can`t hide
it anymore.
What was a perceived threat because I`ve had similar situations at any job? Day-to-day I see guns all the time. I have not shot anyone. I`ve had an
individual reach for a gun two times on me and I didn`t shoot him.
I didn`t even pull my gun out the holster. So what`s the perceived threat? What`s your threat that you are so afraid of this black man? This guy
volunteered the information. He didn`t try to hide it. He didn`t sneak this gun up on you. Nothing. He volunteered the information to you.
So, you knew he had a handgun. Your process, your mindset should have changed. I really think it`s institutionalized racism and I think it`s a
perceived threat. He already had a perceived threat from this man.
COSBY: So let`s go to the attorneys. So let`s go to Laura Coates, former federal prosecutor. Stay with me, Anwar. Also, Alex Sanchez and Kenya
Johnson, defense attorneys.
Alex Sanchez, explain this one.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is a very disturbing video.
COSBY: Yes, it is.
SANCHEZ: We know that the crux of the defense, there`s going to be advance spectrum of this case is what`s missing. Because you know, the crucial part
of this case is when the cops first came up and the shooting occurred. But what happened during that period of time?
Expect the standard defenses that the cop is going to say he felt his safety was in jeopardy. He felt the defendant was armed, that he fe4lt that
defendant was going for his gun. That he had no alternative but to use deadly force and that resulted in the events that took place.
COSBY: By the way, Alex, we do not know again what happened. We do not know what happened before she starts rolling. And we`re just hearing her version
of the events.
But Kenya Johnson, it does not look good for this cop. The other thing, too, as we`re seeing, the cop looks very nervous. He is swearing
afterwards. She seems more contained. It`s interesting. She keeps repeating the same thing, he was just going for his wallet. He was just getting his
registration and then you shot him. It`s the same thing over and over again, Kenya.
KENYA JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, what we`re seeing is this that this is a tragedy and from tragedy comes change. I`ve scoured the internet to
find standard operating procedures when someone declares that they have a weapon. In light of recent events, several people are getting carry
concealed weapons, but does that mean that they`re automatically a threat because they have chosen to defend themselves? There needs to be some
things in place for officers to respond such as immediately remove them from the vehicle. But they`re going to reach for their I.D. and they may
have a weapon on them, we have to find way to change that perception of threat.
COSBY: yeah, we sure do. Let me also -- I want to play some more video. I want o warn you this video is graphic and very disturbing. This is more
from the girlfriend who was in the vehicle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REYNOLDS: We got pulled over for a busted taillight in the back. And the police, he killed my boyfriend. He`s licensed. He`s carried but he`s
licensed to carry. He was trying to get out his I.D. and his wallet out his pocket and he let the officer know that he was -- he had a firearm and he
was reaching for his wallet. The officer just shot him in his arm. We`re waiting for ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep your hands on the wheel.
REYNOLDS: I will, sir. No worries. I will. He just shot his arm off. We got pulled over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told him not to reach for it. I told him to get his hand off.
REYNOLDS: You told him to get his I.D., sir, and his driver`s license. Oh, my God, please don`t tell me he`s dead. Please don`t tell me my boyfriend
just went like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep your hands where they are.
REYNOLDS: Yes, I will, sir. I`ll keep my hands where they are.
Please don`t tell me this, Lord. Please, Jesus, don`t tell me he`s gone. Please don`t tell me that he`s gone.
Please, officer, don`t tell me you just did this to him. You shot four bullets into him, sir. He was just getting his license and registration,
sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: When I see this, it`s just unbelievable to see this happening in real time. He`s literally dying. You hear him even moaning and crying and
swearing and then you hear the cop in the background, which doesn`t look good for the cop. It sounds like he is sort of out of his league and that`s
the impression a little bit there, Laura.
[20:40:00]
LAURA COATES, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yeah. I mean, watching the video was gut-wrenching. And it`s so important to juxtapose the response of the
passenger, Ms. Reynolds. Again, said officer, you have a calm, collective normal dignified passenger ...
(CROSSTALK)
COATES: She could just also be numb given what`s going on.
COSBY: You`re right, she could be numb. But she had the response and the demeanor you would expect from the five-year veteran that led the officer
who was involved in the shooting.
And I have to say, when it comes down to judgment, judgment is the key factor. For a very long time with Supreme Court authority in either case,
we have allowed police officers to receive a benefit of a deference that most civilians do not receive and that is because of their split-second
decision making that they`re responsible for doing, we allow them the deference to be able to judge things a little bit differently.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: So what about here, Laura? What about here?
COATES: But here, you have to use a force that actually meets what`s being given to you. He meets with lethal force, non-lethal conduct it appears to
me and it seems that it`s expected and that this is a person who was not trained properly and frankly was out of his league, as you`re talking
about. His response was hysterical and did not try to contradict Ms. Reynolds` assessment ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Although, although, although ...
Hang on one second, Alex. In the cop`s defense, one of the things he says, I was asking for him to pull the thing and then he looked like he was
grabbing.
So it sounds like he`s going to say, I thought he was going for the gun versus getting the license.
SANCHEZ: He is going to have to advance some form of defense to justify what he engaged in the ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: You bet.
SANCHEZ: And by the way, let me tell you something, Rita, if this kid -- if this cop gets arrested and this goes to trial, that cop and his lawyers
better do everything in their power to block the introduction of that tape that we`ve been watching all morning.
COSBY: It will come in. Come on, it will come in. You know that.
SANCHEZ: Maybe. But they better try to stop it. Because if that comes in ...
COSBY: Oh, it`s damming.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: It is absolutely damning and it puts such a face to this horrible, horrible thing of this man who, it sounds like from, again, what we`re just
hearing, what we`ve seen on the tape because we don`t know, as you point out, what happened prior to.
Matt Zarrell, I want to go to you real quick. What`s the status of the cop? And we know there are what, two cops at the scene, right Matt?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, there were two officers on scene. The primary officer, the one who shot and killed the victim, he has been
placed on standard paid administrative leave. He is yet to be identified. He is being interviewed today.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: And Rita Cosby here, in for Nancy Grace. Two Atlanta, a mom and baby held captive. The beautiful mother tortured for days in her own home. The
alleged culprit? Her husband. Warning, we`re about to show you some graphic photos of this horror that the woman endured.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mother of an infant is allegedly drugged, brutally beaten, tortured and sexually assaulted in front of her two week old baby.
The cops reportedly say the horror went on for days allegedly at the hands of the woman`s own husband.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And let`s go straight to Robyn Walensky. She is a senior news anchor with The Blaze Radio Network. Robyn, you look at these pictures, what
happened to this poor woman?
ROBYN WALENSKY, THE BLAZE RADIO NETWORK SENIOR NEWS ANCHOR: I have to tell you, Rita, this guy, the husband, is absolutely unhinged to do this. It`s
one of the worst cases of domestic abuse here in the Atlanta area. He is now charged with rape, aggravated battery, false imprisonment, cruelty to
children.
What he did to her is unbelievable. The worst of it is that he put his fingers in her eyes, Rita, so she wouldn`t be able to see her baby and then
he poured hot water in her ears so she couldn`t hear the baby and then he stabbed her in the breast area and he told her your milk is useless.
COSBY: You know, it`s so horrible to hear these allegations, again, just allegations at this point, but Matt Zarrell, Nancy Grace producer, when you
see this -- and just look at those pictures side by side. You see this beautiful woman and this is a state she was found in. It`s almost
inconceivable. He also tied her up and drugs, too, are the allegations again?
ZARRELL: Yeah. The victim, herself, said she was held for at least two days. She was repeatedly struck on the head and body. She was tied up and
forced fed Xanax which kept her in and out of consciousness. At one point, she even tried to flee out of a window but was dragged back inside. And
then her hair, her waist-length hair was cut off.
COSBY: Unbelievable. Matt, how did they find her? How did this all come about?
ZARRELL: Well, it was actually the victim`s mother who could not get in touch with her daughter, got tired of all of this and couldn`t get in touch
with her and was very concerned and went to the house and forced her way in to see her daughter. And when she saw her daughter, she was so shocked she
ran to call police.
COSBY: Let`s go to Fawn Ortega, the mother of the victim. Fawn, first of all, our thoughts and prayers are with you. How is your daughter doing?
Most importantly when you see the shape that she was in.
FAWN ORTEGA, MOTHER OF THE VICTIM: My God. Thank you for having me. She is right now, she`s getting ready to have surgery on her eyes on tomorrow.
She`s going to have surgery on her eyes. They`ve described it, the eye socket, it`s cracks that run along the eye socket. It doesn`t have a smooth
surface for the eyes to lay on. So, it`s rolling around -- her eyes are kind of rolling around in there. She`s got the fish eye.
COSBY: You know, my friends -- when I see this, my heart breaks for you. Fawn, it`s so heartbreaking. Walk us through because you suspected
something here. You saw that there were problems in the relationship.
(CROSSTALK)
[20:50:00] ORTEGA: I just felt it in my heart. I just felt it in my heart that I needed to get to her and get through past him. He was holding the
baby and he put the baby down on a -- on a -- he put the baby down and he was just kind of rolling around on this massage table.
I was really just trying to get to her and - because I`m trying to tell him to get back the baby, but I get them. They`re safe. She`s alive. The baby
is just so beautiful. She got to hold him the first time after nine days of not being able to actually see at all and she could not breast-feed.
The lactate group got together and they donated some milk and a freezer for us to put the milk in. His tummy is better. He`s more healthy skin and
beautiful boy.
And she`s much better. I treated her with everything I could to reduce inflammation and swelling and get her blood back to less toxicity that she
was near coma.
So this is an ongoing investigation. I`m unable to like really get into that but just progressively moved forward. And what she really wants to do
is try to, you know, heal herself, obviously. Get the surgery and it`s the outpouring of love and prayers from everybody in the community has been
overwhelming.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Absolutely.
ORTEGA: ... blessed to have her alive.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Absolutely. By the way, the community is with you and our heart breaks for you.
We`re going to switch gears real quick because each year Americans adopt more than a million dogs from animal shelters. But the older the dog, the
less likely it will find a new home. And this week`s CNN hero is working to change that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERRI FRANKLIN, CNN HERO: Dogs that are old, very, very often are the first to be euthanized because literally they just don`t think the dog is
adoptable because of its age. We`re proving them wrong.
She`s adopted.
Old dogs have so much to give. They have changed people`s lives with their gratitude, with their tenderness. There`s soulfulness with older dogs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Yeah, you`re going to want to watch the rest of that one. It is right up there now on CNNHeroes.com or you can also nominate someone that
you think deserves to be a 2016 CNN Hero.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say a husband mercilessly beats and assaults his wife into a bloody pulp in front of their newborn, allegedly keeping his
wife captive for days in their own home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Rita Cosby here, in for Nancy Grace, and those photos that you are seeing there are very graphic of the victim. Let`s go to the attorneys,
Laura Coates, former federal prosecutor; defense attorney Alex Sanchez, Kenya Johnson.
Alex Sanchez, this is absolutely horrible. He was sort of claiming that she drugged herself up, it sounds like, and that she was kind of going crazy
and he was trying to do it. Look at these injuries, Alex. It`s unbelievable.
SANCHEZ: Yeah, you know, this case is so far off the charts ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... that I`m beginning to wonder whether or not there`s, you know, biological reason for it. I mean, this guy should literally have his head
examined, have MRIs and CT scans to determine if he has some type of a tumor or something to that effect or whether or not it was -- there was
some adverse effect from medication or prescription drugs.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait a minute. You think this is some sort of a tumor? Is that the best you can come up with, Alex? Come on.
SANCHEZ: Well, I think -- there has to be. Where does this come from?
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: It comes from -- it comes from pure evil. There`s no excuse for it, Alex.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: A lot of so-called evil behavior could be based on biological reasons.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Over two days. Kenya Johnson, over two days. Give me a break, Alex.
JOHNSON: To take it one step further, not only is there biological issues there but I would even look into insanity. In his mental state. This is a
clear ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Oh, come on. Two days. Two days. Wait a minute. Let me go to Matt Zarrell real quick. Matt, apparently, what, there was word she might be
leaving him. There`s a motive, possibly, right?
ZARRELL: Well, the motive actually apparently she was concerned that he was going to run off with the baby and the only reason that she apparently
allowed him to beat her, allegedly beat her, is because she was worried he would take the baby and leave.
COSBY: All right, Kenya Johnson, insanity? No. he sounds like he was planning and it also sounds like it continued for days.
JOHNSON: Temporary insanity even. But they may have been some sort of trigger that made him -- some sort pf posttraumatic stress, or something
that ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: There`s no excuse. Laura, real quick. Any excuse you can conceive, Laura, but give it quick.
COATES: No. No. I`ve prosecuted hundreds and hundreds of domestic violence cases. This is one of the worst I`ve ever seen. And what you`re doing is
excusing his conduct ...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Right.
COATES: ... by some other deficiency.
COSBY: Right.
COATES: What you have here is an act, if it`s true, of pure cruelty, of just complete and total, horrific, horrific crimes and to suggest that she
had any part or that he is not in control of his action is way a stretch for reasons.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: I agree. That makes the defense attorneys insane. Thank you, everybody.
We remember American hero, Staff Sergeant Shawn Graham, 34, Brazoria, Texas. Remembered for being a true leader and a family man. Mother,
Kathleen; father, Thomas; Brother Nicholas; widow, Jeannette. Shawn Graham, an American hero.
"Forensic Files" is up next. Thanks to all our guests but especially to all of you for being with us and inviting us into your homes. Rita Cosby
signing off for now, but I will see you Monday, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern Time. And until then everybody, good night.
[21:00:00]
END
