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Nancy Grace
Pregnant Orange County Woman Brutally Attacked In Home After Husband`s Ex Posts Fake Rape Fantasy Ads On Craigslist; Suspect in Lighter Fluid Murder Linked to Another Murder. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 19, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police and EMTs race to the scene to find a teen girl burning alive. Just before her death, does the
girl whisper her killer`s name? The alleged killer also linked to a second murder of a female co-ed. We want justice!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say Tellis burned Jessica Chambers alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A man does like what he does, he don`t have a soul.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Entering a not guilty plea. He pled guilty for using a credit card of a student at University of Louisiana Monroe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Found stabbed to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why was he even on the street?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A shocking story out of California, reports a pregnant Orange County woman brutally attacked in her own home after her husband`s 29-year-
old ex -- here she is -- posts fake rape fantasy ads under the pregnant wife`s name on Craigslist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say a California woman pretended to be her ex-boyfriend`s pregnant wife and used Craigslist ads for terrifying rape
fantasies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Police and EMTs race to a scene to find a gorgeous teen girl, an honor student, burning alive. But just before her death, does
Jessica whisper her killer`s name, the alleged killer now linked to a second murder of a female co-ed? We want justice!
But in the last hours, the suspect says, I`m not guilty. We have been on this case, and I`m happy to report, after our program aired, formal charges
come down in the second murder case. But what does it mean for Jessica Chambers?
Let`s take it from the very top. To Ron Maxey joining us tonight, reporter with "The Commercial Appeal." I want to go through what the evidence is
that this guy murdered Jessica Chambers.
Now, there`s a lot of evidence linking him to Mandy, the other murdered co- ed that was actually stabbed, oh, at least 30 times. Mandy Hsiao was stabbed 30 times, and many of those stabbings were actually torture,
torture to make her give up her PIN number.
But -- Ron Maxey joining us, with "The Commercial Appeal." First, Stacey, what do you believe is the strongest evidence linking him to Jessica
Chambers? And Justin, if you don`t mind, I want to see the video of Jessica. As I recall it, Stacey, that night, she goes out to fill up her
car with gas. Do we have that video, Justin? And that is the last known photographic image of Jessica before she`s killed. Go ahead, Stace.
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we know with this particular case, they`re not revealing all of the evidence. But we know that these
two had a history. They were connected and grew up together.
On the surveillance video, what you do see at some point is she appears to be waving at somebody while she`s pumping gas and talking to somebody on
the video, Nancy. Is that person the suspect?
GRACE: Good point. Good point. Ron Maxey, back to you from Stacey Newman, Ron with "The Commercial Appeal." Is there a thought that the perp
that burned this girl alive was actually there at the gas station and bummed a ride off Jessica? Is that what we think happened?
RON MAXEY, "COMMERCIAL APPEAL" (via telephone): Well, no one has said that. The prosecutor has not linked anybody who may or may not have been
in the car with the person who`s charged with the crime. That (INAUDIBLE) speculation in the community.
GRACE: Take look at Jessica Chambers. This honor student goes out. She cleans her car, I think vacuums it out, fills it up. She`s caught on
video. Take a look inside. She goes inside and pays. There she is in (INAUDIBLE) the camouflage workout pants. You see here over there, I think
wearing flip-flops. This was just moments before she`s murdered in a brutal, a horror lighting fluid attack.
In the last hours, the alleged perp says in court, I`m not guilty. I didn`t do it. So Ron Maxey, what is the evidence linking him to Jessica`s
murder?
[20:05:00]MAXEY: Well, it`s -- the prosecutor has said that they had to rely on data and forensics. They`ve not gotten into any specifics over how
they`re linking in, but they say they have a mountain of data and forensic evidence, including phone records, that point to no one but Tellis. And
they say all this will come out, you know, in the trial. It`s going to be a lengthy discovery process, the prosecutor says, just because there is so
much evidence to go through.
GRACE: Well, it`s interesting that you say phone records. Take a listen to what Jessica`s father tells me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve got to have a soul before you can get (INAUDIBLE) If a man does like what he does, he don`t have a soul.
Why? Why? That`s my main thing. And you know, they -- I don`t know if I`ll ever get that, you know, the truth, why? What could a 19-year-old
girl do to you to do that? I want him to get the fullest thing the law (INAUDIBLE). I hope he gets death.
It`s going to be hard, me sitting in the same room with him. I mean, you know, I -- that`s my biggest fear. The emotions, you know, it`s just going
to be hard to control, you know? And nothing in this world I hate worse than him, you know? And I know I got to forgive him someday in my heart.
I wish him the worst in the world.
Wait. Had to wait, wait, wait, you know, wait on the doctor. It seemed like it was eternity, you know? The doctor come out (INAUDIBLE) he
couldn`t do nothing for her, you know? She was hurt too bad.
It was about two hours before we got to go back there, you know? And the doctor come out and he told me, he said, Mr. Chambers, you don`t want to
see your daughter. I said, Yes, I do. He said, No, she`s unrecognizable, you know? You know, she`s unrecognizable. He said he`d never seen
somebody that`s hurt that bad that lived as long as she did. She had a strong heart. I mean, she no veins or nothing (INAUDIBLE) they can`t put
IVs in or nothing, you know?
(INAUDIBLE) like it was yesterday, you know, it was -- I just didn`t want to believe it at first when they called me. You know, I thought maybe, you
know, she was just burned just a little bit, you know? (INAUDIBLE) couldn`t imagine the scale it was, you know? And I asked Barry (ph) was
she OK, and you know, and he got real silent and he said No, man, she`s not.
And that`s when my whole world fell, you know? I was just praying to the Lord that she`d be OK, you know? It was -- you know, just begging her, you
know, to -- to not take her, you know, because I just -- I just lost my son a year before she got killed, you know, in a car wreck. And just, you
know, my whole world shut down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Jessica Chambers, burned alive. Apparently, from what we understand, Ron Maxey, she was actually walking as she was burning? I
mean, how was she spotted?
MAXEY: She was on a private -- it was a rural road. This is a very rural area, and she was on a private drive actually not far from her home. And a
passerby saw somebody out beside the car, which was burned out, and she was on fire, as well. And they called help. She was air-lifted to a hospital
in Memphis, which is where she died a number of hours later.
GRACE: Dr. William Morrone joining me, renowned forensic pathologist and medical examiner and toxicologist. Dr. Morrone, the witnesses say that
when they saw her, she was already consumed in flames.
And I`m trying to figure out one reason this case should not be a death penalty case because it is my belief, Dr. Morrone, that the perpetrator
squirted lighter fluid all over her and then threw a match on her to set her on fire. And there is at least some evidence suggesting that lighter
fluid may have actually gone down her throat. And if that type of death does not warrant the death penalty, I don`t know what does.
This is an unarmed young girl who, at most, gave somebody a ride innocently, naively, and now she`s dead under horrific circumstances.
Dr. Morrone, I know you have children. But when Jessica`s father told me about his desperate attempt to get to her bedside, to somehow try to save
her, and he didn`t make it, he didn`t get there -- and when he did get there, Dr. Morrone, they said, You don`t want to see her. You don`t want
to see her. I mean, she`s burned alive.
[20:10:26]DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: The natural impulse for a parent is to be in close relationship and not to think about what
their child looks like. That was his drive. That`s your drive. That`s my drive.
And the medical staff is always worried about the last images that the closest relative will have, and they don`t want those images to be
emblazoned in their memory of their loved one. But in a burning case as this, you would want to say, whatever it takes to reduce the pain and the
suffering, if it`s to bring somebody close, that`s what you wanted to do.
GRACE: Why are you saying that, about doctors not wanting the family to go in as someone is dying?
MORRONE: In a burning case, in a terrible accident case, the last images that you have of your loved one is something that people usually take away.
If somebody is on a ventilator and they have tubes and wires all over them, that`s not the image you want to send away. So medical staff sometimes
deemphasize the need for contact.
But parents, loved ones, spouses, want to transfer the feeling and the empathy. That`s the energy. Sometimes medical staff doesn`t understand
that, but that`s relationship-based, whereas they`re visual-based, and that`s a totally different appreciation.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Morrone, you and I spoke very shortly after my father passed away. And I remember everybody left. They shooed everybody out
right after he passed away.
And I just could not leave his body there without anybody with it. So I stayed, you know, until the people from the funeral home that we knew came,
and then I went with his body to the elevator and then down, you know, for it to be transported.
And when I look back on that, Dr. Morrone, part of me wishes I didn`t have that memory in my head because I wake up in the night when that memory.
But I get it. I get why her father was fighting with the hospital staff to get in there to her, to be with her, because I had to fight with the
hospital staff because I didn`t want to leave my father, and he had already passed away. I wanted to stay there with him. So I understand the father
trying to get to her.
Dr. Morrone, how can they tell if this guy squirted or poured lighter fluid down her throat? I mean, if she`s burned alive, so much of her soft tissue
is consumed by fire. How can they tell that?
MORRONE: In a normal burn victim that`s engaged and in flames, the only thing that you`ll have in the esophagus and the trachea is charred smoke
remnants. But you won`t actually get burned tissue inside unless there was accelerant or fuel that went down the esophagus or the trachea. Then those
tissues will be burned, which is much more severe than just some charred smoke remnants.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:32]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Burned alive along this county road in Pinola County.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nineteen-year-old Jessica Chambers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What could a 19-year-old girl do to you to do that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody deserves what she went through.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just 19 years old!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wish him the worst in the world, and I hope he gets death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In the last hours, the man accused in the horrific death of a gorgeous young cheerleader, honor student, Jessica Chambers, says, I didn`t
do it. I`m not guilty.
Now, after we aired his story in connection with another young co-ed, Mandy, he is now facing charges in Mandy Hsiao`s death, as well, the
defense arguing the death penalty should not apply, and in fact, insisting he did not kill Jessica Chambers or Mandy Hsiao in completely divergent
jurisdictions.
So bottom line, to Dr. William Morrone, was -- did he put lighter fluid down Jessica`s throat?
MORRONE: If the damage from the autopsy reveals blistering and burns, the answer is yes...
GRACE: OK. Got it.
MORRONE: ... because you can`t get that answer any other way.
GRACE: But you know, I don`t know why I`m so fixated on that because dousing someone with lighter fluid and setting them on fire alive, burning
them alive, this young girl who did nothing but give him a ride, according to sources, is torturous.
[20:20:05]And in the next case, Ashley Mott, breaking news reporter with "The News-Star" out of Monroe, Louisiana, it`s my theory that he also
tortured this co-ed, Mandy Hsiao, to death. She was covered in 30-plus stab wounds, and many of those were on her face, her ears, her arms, her
neck, her extremities, I believe trying on force Mandy to give up her PIN number to her ATM because he was caught later using her ATM.
So Ashley, I see very clear connection, identifying a young girl -- Mandy is a young co-ed, Jessica just getting out of high school -- torturing
them, murdering them for some type of pecuniary or money gain.
What do we know, Ashley, about whether he tortured Mandy to death?
ASHLEY MOTT, "NEWS-STAR" (via telephone): Well, according to the arrest warrant filed for (INAUDIBLE) first degree murder charges, the police
department does further the idea that he did torture her and created the superficial wounds that you mentioned in an effort to obtain the PIN
number, which he later used to do the ATM transactions.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:35]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 19-year-old was found with burns over most of her body.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Burning alive beside her car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Quinton Tellis facing a capital murder charge for the death...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... of using a credit card that belonged to an exchange student found murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charged in her death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Evil and deserved far more than what they did to her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And what is so ironic is that they say Jessica Chambers, the honor student -- then there is another student, Mandy Hsiao. Isn`t it true --
isn`t it true, Ashley Mott, that police were questioning this guy, Tellis, Quinton Tellis, 27 years old. They let him go, and then he goes out and
uses the dead girl`s ATM card? Isn`t that true, Ashley?
MOTT: He did use her debit card to complete multiple transactions in both Vicksburg, Mississippi, and the Monroe, Louisiana area. And he was later
picked up on those charges for using that unauthorized card.
GRACE: And police let him go after talking to him and he goes out -- now, this is after he`s already murdered Jessica Chambers, according to police.
To Ben Levitan. How are phone records going to help us in this case?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): Well, Nancy, whenever you call your credit card company, your bank, what they -- what
they do is you put in your account number and your PIN, but they also record the caller ID of the number that calls.
So Nancy, when they go back to Tellis`s phone records, they`ll see that he called Chase bank. He could be the only one who used her card at that
time, Nancy.
GRACE: And you know, another issue, to Ron Maxey with "The Commercial Appeal," when we`re talking about Jessica Chambers, then Mandy Hsiao is
murdered after that, after we talk about the story on the air, charges come down in Mandy`s murder.
Isn`t it true that police say this guy, Ron Maxey, Quinton Tellis, asked somebody else, offers to pay somebody else to go withdraw money using the
dead girl`s ATM? He knows his photo`s going to turn up on top of that ATM, and he wants somebody else to go and their photo turn up.
MAXEY: I believe that`s the case. I`m going strictly by what was said in the indictment on the (INAUDIBLE) case.
GRACE: I would think that the indictment is something that we can count on. So long story short -- unleash the lawyers. Out of Atlanta, Eric
Johnson, defense attorney. Out of LA, multi-state attorney, Carissa Kranz.
Give me one good reason, Carissa, that this should not be a death penalty case. You got two dead girls, both of them tortured to death.
CARISSA KRANZ, MULTI-STATE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I agree that this is an awful crime and worthy of a death penalty. However, we don`t have enough
information to pin him to the crimes. We don`t have DNA. We don`t know what those phone records or communications says. Not enough information`s
been revealed yet. We need to know the contents of...
GRACE: OK, let`s talk about what you`re just saying. Let`s talk about that. Ben Levitan, what do the phone records show us?
LEVITAN: Well, the phone records are going to show us primarily that it was his phone that was communicating with the bank. This is a rural area,
so really, the location of the phone is not going to give us a lot of information here, Nancy, because it`s such a rural area, the cell towers
cover such a big area. But it`s...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Wait a minute! Whoa, whoa, whoa! Doesn`t anybody get it, Eric Johnson? Ben, you`re right. But what about the fact that the neighbor
says she sees Tellis going in and out of Mandy`s apartment around the time she`s murdered, that she hears them arguing, that they`re arguing over the
ATM card.
Then she`s never seen alive again, and he, Tellis, tries to pay somebody to use her ATM card. He doesn`t want to go do the dirty work because he knows
it`s going to be connected to a murder. And he, Tellis, phone is used to call the bank to access money.
ERIC JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That just means that he knows that he might get caught for credit card fraud or possibly financial identity
fraud.
[20:30:00] (JOINED IN PROGRESS)
NANCY GRACE, CNN NANCY GRACE SHOW HOST: ...call the bank to access money.
ERIC JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That just means that he knows he might get caught for credit card fraud or possibly financial identity fraud, but the
fact that him speaking about the card of having possession of the card does not tie him into the murder in any way.
GRACE: Except that the card is taken at the time she`s killed. What about that?
JOHNSON: Well, since no one was there, no one knows exactly when she was killed. So this argument may have taken place hours before she was
murdered. There is nothing to say that the card was taken at the time of her death.
GRACE: Oh, OK. Let me follow that through, Eric Johnson.
CARISSA KRANZ, MULTI STATE ATTORNEY: What if he found the card?
GRACE: If he found card. Yeah, he said that.
KRANZ: Maybe he found the card.
GRACE: No, he`s already said a doper gave him the card and that doper was actually found and had an alibi. So his story is totally a lie. So let me
just follow through with your two arguments. Your argument is, that he goes to her place, has a physical confrontation with her like the neighbor
hears, and then he leaves with her ATM card, which is what they were arguing about. Then somebody else comes into the apartment and murders her.
Is that what you`re saying?
JOHNSON: Well, that`s a lot of assumptions there. The argument could have been about him returning the ATM card. There is nothing saying that he
didn`t have possession of the card prior to him going to the house. And also, as it relates to the identification, how can the lawyer know for
certain that it was Mr. Tellis? This is a rural community.
GRACE: Because she got the tag number, that`s how, and it`s his tag number. You know, take a listen to this guy. I want you two to hear this. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see dead people. I see dead people.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A shocking story out of California. Tonight reports a pregnant Orange County woman is brutally attacked in her own home after her
husband`s 29-year-old ex-girlfriend posts fake rape fantasy ads under the pregnant wife`s name on craigslist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michelle Hadley allegedly sent them in pictures and details about the woman`s daily routines. Hadley also allegedly sent the
woman e-mails threatening her life and that of her unborn child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight at you Tom Perumean, reporter with KABC, Tom, thank you for being with us. You know, this is quite a phenomenon. Now, this 29-year-old
girl with her whole life in front of her dates this guy. Isn`t he a sheriff or a former sheriff?
TOM PERUMEAN, KABC TALK RADIO FIELD REPORTER:: He is a U.S. Marshal.
GRACE: Yes, thank you. A U.S. Marshal, and he breaks up with her, and instead of going on with her life at age 29, she finds out he marries
another woman. And then the other woman after a period of time, gets pregnant. And instead of going on and finding her own happiness, what are
the allegations, Tom?
PERUMEAN: Well, it`s this certainly one of the most horrific stories of mayhem and vengeance I`ve ever covered. The allegations are that this
woman, 29-year-old Michelle Suzanne Hadley was stalking the ex-girlfriend and certainly finding out what her daily routines were. And the girlfriend
even knew about this after threats had been made. She filed a restraining order against...
GRACE: Well, I thought they`re married. I thought they got married and they`re going to have a baby.
PERUMEAN: That`s right. I should be referring to the victim as the pregnant wife of the marshal. After they got married, Michelle Hadley, the ex-
girlfriend, was stalking the wife. And certainly, making threats, electronic threats, and you know, it caught their attention and they filed
a restraining order against Hadley but that didn`t stop her or slow her down at all.
She enacted a plot to have the pregnant wife attacked and raped by posting this as a rape fantasy on craigslist. She even impersonated the pregnant
wife when communicating with potential perpetrators and no less than six men showed up and tried on attack this woman. One of them was successful in
sexually assaulting the marshal`s wife before running off. Hadley is now, you know, in jail, being held on a million dollars bail.
She is facing a whole slew of felony charges, you know, violating a restraining order, stalking, criminal threats, assault with intent to
commit a sexual offense. Another one of commission, a first degree burglary, six counts of attempted forcible rape and a misdemeanor of the
violation of protective order. So she could be looking at upwards of life in prison.
[20:40:00] GRACE: As she should. I mean, we don`t even know if the baby survived the attack. For those of you just joining us, this woman that
you`re looking at right now, a 29-year-old woman, Michelle Suzanne Hadley is now charged with stalking her ex-boyfriend`s new wife who is now
pregnant and posting on craigslist ads as if she is the pregnant wife.
Asking for men to show up and it says, "Whether I scream or say no or try to call a police, don`t pay attention to me. Go ahead and assault me. That
is my secret fantasy. And all these men start showing up. Hold on Tom Perumean, KABC, we are now being joined from Santa Ana by the Orange County
District Attorney, Tony Rackauckas. Thank you for being with us.
TONY RACKAUCKAS, ORANGE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: My pleasure.
GRACE: You know, Tony, I would always say this, I think I`ve seen it all and then of course I would be proven wrong. I mean, here`s a 29-year-old
woman. Why not just go on with your life? Why did she do this? What do we know?
RACKAUCKAS: Well, we just know that she wouldn`t let go. She developed this obsessive fixation on getting this -- her ex-boyfriend back and she
wouldn`t give up. And the more effort that was made to get her to stop, the more she escalated the conduct until there was an actual assault and one of
those men that you described found her in the garage and assaulted her and jumped on her...
GRACE: Oh, my stars. Tony, did the baby survive?
RACKAUCKAS: Yes of course. Yes -- yes -- the answer to that is yes.
GRACE: Matt, I want to follow up on what the Orange County district attorney who is kindly joining us tonight. Tony Rackauckas said -- Matt,
what did those ads say specifically, that this woman is charged with posting on behalf of the pregnant wife?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we know that prosecutors are alleging that Hadley told the males responding to have forcible sexual
intercourse with the victim even if she screamed or resisted.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say California woman pretended to be her ex-boyfriend`s pregnant wife and used craigslist ads for terrifying rape
fantasies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: About six men show up on different occasions. They read about this rape fantasy ad on craigslist that this woman, Michelle Suzanne Hadley,
just 29 years old, allegedly posts about her ex-boyfriend`s new wife who is now pregnant. And then with me, hold on, Orange County District Attorney,
Tony Rackauckas, with me out of Santa Ana. Tony, again, thank you for being with us. Isn`t true that she reportedly scoped out the new wife to find out
when the new wife would be at home alone?
RACKAUCKAS: Yes -- yes, when she would be at home, when she might be doing other things as well like walking the dog, things of that nature.
GRACE: It`s incredible. It`s absolutely incredible that she would go to these lengths. I mean, what was her end game, Tony? What did she want?
RACKAUCKAS: Well, I think what she wanted was to force the, her ex- boyfriend to come back to her by making the wife leave.
GRACE: Okay. Dr. Charles Sophy out of L.A., that`s a sure fire way to get your ex-boyfriend back. Stage a rape on his new wife, pregnant with his
baby. Okay? I mean, what kind of crazy thinking is that?
CHARLES SOPHY, PSYCHIATRIST: She`s confident. She posted that up. She knows what she`s doing.
GRACE: You know, another issue, back to Tony Rackauckas. Tony, I`m really thinking about your indictment, which I totally agree with and another
potential count regarding an attack on the baby. I don`t know if California law specifically would allow that, but I know that it is allowed in civil
law for a man to come in.
And this woman knows the new wife is pregnant. And she orchestrates this rape fantasy ad on craigslist. The man comes in. She knows the wife is
pregnant. And she still sets up a brutal attack and rape on this woman. That could kill the baby. Whether it did or didn`t, would be an attempted
agg assault on the baby, Tony?
RACKAUCKAS: Yep, I heard you -- I heard you say that and I heard you make that suggestion a little bit earlier and it is certainly an interesting
idea. I mean she did -- she did know her e-mails and some of the threats that she made it clear that she did know that the victim was pregnant.
So, she knew that she was having, trying to get men to rape a pregnant woman. I think that the intent -- her intent to assault the baby, we
thought that would be stretching it a little bit thin and we wanted to stick with what would be a clear...
GRACE: Well, you know how I feel, Tony. I always think you should give the jury every possible choice and let them decide. But I hear what you`re
saying. That`s where you need an expert like Dr. William Morrone. Dr. Morrone, isn`t true that a rape or an agg assault, a beating on a pregnant
woman could absolutely kill the baby?
WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: If you have an assault on a pregnant woman and the baby dies in utero, that`s fetal demise. That`s a medical
classification that is resulting from the assault, yes.
[20:50:00] GRACE: You know, to Ben Levitan, thank you for sticking around Ben, telecommunications expert on Raleigh, because I need you on this one.
You know, the suggestion that this woman is somehow -- merely incompetent or insane, because I know that`s where the lawyers are going to go.
She is crazy like a fox Ben because isn`t true that this 29-year-old ex- girlfriend, Michelle Suzanne Hadley, really knows her computers because she re-routed all of these threats, all these craigslist ads through all sorts
of server and different IP addresses. I`d have to go to school to figure out what she did, Ben.
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Nancy, this is a little bit overstated. Basically, she is aware that if she places an ad on craigslist,
craigslist knows the computer that that came from. So, she was smart enough probably not to use her own computer. She may have gone to the library or
she may have gone to a public coffee shop. She may have gone anywhere so she could post those on craigslist to try to protect her home computer.
She didn`t want it coming back to her own computer. Also, what you can do, there are a thousand services out there, Nancy, that if I want to send
someone anonymous mail, I can find people to be a middle man for me all over the world. So, it is very easy to do. It`s just that this woman was
smart enough not to get caught, that`s premeditation or try not to get caught.
GRACE: Are you saying for instance I could arrange with someone in just Russia, let`s say Russia, to send an e-mail that I did not want to send?
LEVITAN: If I don`t -- if I send you an e-mail, Nancy, it can be traced back to my computer at my desk. If I want to avoid that, I can got to the -
- I can get someone to handle that on my behalf. They`re called anonymizers. It may well take my messages and forward it wherever I want.
GRACE: Woah!
LEVITAN: And normally they`re out of the country as well, but just as well, she could have gone to the public library or something like that, Nancy.
GRACE: So, question to Tony again, the Orange County District Attorney, the elected district attorney joining us tonight, Tony Rackauckas. Tony, what
did the threats say that are -- they`re in that police report, they`re in the indictment? What were the threats that are alleged that she made
against the new wife?
RACKAUCKAS: There were a number -- there were a number of threats including threats to kill and sending pictures of people who had been killed and
things of that nature. So, clear death threats.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michelle Hadley allegedly sent the men pictures and details about the woman`s daily routines. Hadley also allegedly sent the
woman e-mails threatening her life and that of her unborn child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This is not the first time we have seen a scenario like this. Matt Zarrell, what can you tell me about a woman named Kathy Roe.
ZARRELL: Yes, so this is a story that we actually covered at the so-called dream house. She actually was arrested and charged because she tortured a
couple who outbid her for her dream house. One day, when the homeowner`s husband typed his wife`s name into a search engine, they discovered
advertisers for sex with his wife, inviting strangers to come to the home and perform sexual favors on his wife while the husband was at work.
GRACE: That`s not the only one. There is another.
ZARRELL: Yes. There`s Jebidiah James Stipe. He actually got 60 years to life in prison after he posted a craigslist ad which led to the rape of his
ex-girlfriend. Prosecutors said Stipe posed as his ex-girlfriend and posted it on craigslist claiming she wanted to play out a rape fantasy and a man
actually went over and forcibly raped her at gunpoint. He also got 60 years to life in prison.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Eric Johnson, Atlanta, Carissa Kranz, L.A. OK Eric Johnson, give me one good reason that this woman should not get life
behind bars. Death threats, putting the pregnant wife`s name under fake rape ads on craigslist.
JOHNSON: Well, the first things you have to do is prove that it was her. I mean, you said earlier that multiple computers and multiple e-mail
addresses were used so, you have no idea that this woman -- this information actually came from this woman. So, just because she may have
had an issue or she may have had a motive to do something like this, the authorities still are going to have to do their job and prove and tie that
these things have been done by her.
GRACE: Carissa?
KRANZ: We also need to look at mitigating circumstances. Obviously, she is not stable. She might be mentally ill that needs to be looked into.
GRACE: I don`t know why...
KRANZ: Possibly the husband, wait, Nancy. Has anyone looked into the husband? Has she done anything to give her hope that would lead her to
continue to stay so focused?
GRACE: OK, you know what, I`m going to have to shut you down on that. Tony Rackauckas, the elected D.A. I was going to ask you. Are you confident in
your evidence that this woman is responsible? But let me just clear up the U.S. Marshal`s name right now. He had absolutely nothing to do with this.
Do you even have a shred of evidence to support what Carissa just said?
RACKAUCKAS: No, no, we don`t. And I just want to tell you, this is a completely innocent victim. And we`re going to do all we can to fight for
this victim and to protect her and others like her. And the evidence in this case is very clear. There is no question whatsoever as to where these
messages came from.
[21:00:00] GRACE: I believe you. I believe you are going to fight for the victim. Let`s remember American hero Army Sergeant Travis Arndt, just 23,
Bozeman, Montana. Loved the outdoors, mountain driving in his jeep, hiking. An amateur boxer. He dreamed of being a football coach or a cop. Parents
Mark and Michelle, one brother, two sisters. Travis Arndt, American hero. Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us tonight. Nancy
Grace signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. Until then, good night my friend.
END
