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Nancy Grace
Dismembered Body in Tote Bag Identified; Nancy Grace Has New Novel Out; Did Oregon Father Cause Death of His Son?; Final Night of the DNC. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 28, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN GOST: Breaking news tonight. As we go to air, we can confirm authorities just identify a dismembered body found in a tote bag in
the Green River, identified as 22-year-old Kristen Edwards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The peaceful waters of the Green River.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of a sudden, you come up on something like that...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That something was a dismembered body stuffed into a bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see a hand. There`s someone responsible for the death and the disposal of somebody else`s body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: He calls 911 to say his baby boy isn`t breathing, but then says he just spent 15 minutes searching on line what to do before calling EMTs.
The Oregon dad Googles "father hates infant," and quote, "afraid of abusing my baby" just before his 11 week old son is found dead.
Tonight, outrage. A judge throws out Daddy`s Google searches. Will there ever be justice for 11-week-old baby Brian (ph)?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did an Oregon father cause the death of his son? Little Brian Mansur (ph) was diagnosed as brain dead, with injuries
consistent with shaken baby syndrome. But now an Oregon appeals court has overturned Mansur`s conviction. Could Malik Mansur (ph) walk free?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, we confirm authorities have identified a dismembered body. The body was found in a tote bag in the Green River.
The body is identified as a 22-year-old woman, Kristen Edwards.
Straight out to Jake Boswell with CNN affiliate WBKO. Jake, thank you for being with us. How was the body and the tote bag found?
JAKE BOSWELL, WBKO CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, it was actually found on Saturday, just the last Saturday we had here. And a fisherman went out,
because it`s been really hot here in Kentucky, really early in the morning. And when he got out on the water, some kids told him that something smelled
and they pointed to an object in the river.
That fisherman went over to that bag. And he couldn`t really see what was inside at first. So he took out a pocket knife, cut open that bag, and the
first thing he saw was a hand. That person is actually a member of a rescue squad in the area, so he knew at that moment not to really touch
anything. From that point on, this could be a serious crime.
GRACE: Yes. With me, Jake Boswell from CNN affiliate WBKO there near the scene where a tote bag was fished out of the Green River in Kentucky. In
that tote bag was the body of this beautiful young girl, 22-year-old Kristen Ray (ph) Edwards.
Jake Boswell, back to you. So is the guy out on a boat? Is he actually out fishing, or was the tote bag with the body in it close enough to shore
that he could just walk out and get it?
BOSWELL: Well, the tote bag was actually caught on a log near an embankment on the Green River that he was actually able to be near the bank
whenever this happened. They weren`t really sure if the tote bag had been sitting there for days or if it had washed downstream, and eventually, the
log is what caught it there. But it certainly was very close to a bank there in the Green River.
GRACE: Guys, you`re seeing a shot right now of the Green River near the vicinity where the body is found. Now, take a listen to the fisherman that
finds the body.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE BRUTON, FISHERMAN WHO FOUND BODY: It`s one of the most beautiful rivers in the state, and we were expecting to go catch us a smallmouth bass
and enjoy the river. And then, all of a sudden, you come up on something like that that`s sitting right there on the edge of the river on the right
side.
I took my gaffe that I use to push fish in, and I reached and hooked the tote and kind of flipped it over. And I actually cut it just a little bit
more so I could see further into it. And when I did, I seen -- you could see a hand.
Hopefully, we find out who it was so that the families will have some closure, and hopefully, they catch whoever did it, and you know, that
person pays for what they done. I mean, takes a pretty sick person to, you know, take and cut up a person like that and do that to them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, that guy had a lot of guts because a lot of people, if they thought they were fishing something suspicious out of the water, they
would have turned tail and run, rather than being even connected to this.
This fisherman is out -- heading out on the water for the day when some little boys point to this tote bag. He goes out to investigate it, and
inside, he finds the dismembered body of this 22-year-old woman, who has just been identified as Kristen Edwards.
[20:05:14]Back to Jake Boswell joining me, WBKO. So Jake, the guy fishes it out. And I find it very interesting, Jake, that the fisherman who finds
the body describes her hand as being folded under in that manner. I find that very interesting. And I wonder what that means anatomically, as far
as evidence goes. Do we know what body parts were in the bag?
BOSWELL: At this point, police are keeping a lot of that close to their chest. But we do know, obviously, like he said, he saw a hand in the bag.
From what we`re able to understand, it looks like at least the majority of the body was in there, if not all of it, at this point.
GRACE: To Angela Briggs, news director at WCLU, also joining us there in Kentucky. This body has just been identified as the young mom, Kristen
Edwards, just 22 years old.
Angela, nobody can confirm to me for sure -- and that includes not just Jake but a lot of police sources we`ve been in contact. Nobody will tell
us, is her whole body for sure in that tote bag, or is part of her body still missing, Angela?
ANGELA BRIGGS, WCLU (via telephone): Well, now, that`s what we`re thinking is that there was most of the body was still in the bag because of the
quick turnaround time as far as the identification of the body.
GRACE: A lot of issues surrounding this. Straight out to Trooper B.J. Eaton, the PIO at Kentucky State Police post 3.
Trooper Eaton, thank you so much for being with us tonight. I know that you guys are tearing the place apart trying to solve this mystery. As far
as how her body was found, is there anything about that tote bag that can be traced back?
For instance, a lot of times when I deal with cases where there`s, say, a trash bag, I can determine who made the trash bag, where it was sold, what
lot it was made in -- in other words, the date and the batch -- and then I can go to that store and dig back, and hopefully, find surveillance video
of who may have bought it. It`s a tedious process, but it can be done.
So to you, Trooper Eaton. What do we know about that tote bag? Because that`s a pretty strong piece of evidence.
B.J. EATON, KENTUCKY STATE POLICE (via telephone): It is a strong piece of evidence, and that`s one of the reasons that releasing certain details like
that, we`re withholding. It`s just because right now, it`s such a valuable piece of evidence for us.
So once we got her identified, that was first and foremost primary there, was to get her identified. And now we know who we`re dealing with, and
those pieces of evidence is definitely very viable to us right now, and our guys are doing what they can. Our lab is doing what we can to be
processing those things.
GRACE: You know, Trooper B.J. Eaton joining me, the PIO of Kentucky State Police post 3 -- you know, when you have an ID -- because I`ve prosecuted
Jane Doe cases. It`s a lot more difficult to prosecute a Jane Doe. You can`t get a timeline. You don`t know who she is, where she`s from, where
she may have been killed.
You don`t know where to start. You don`t have a starting point because you don`t know who saw her last, where she`s from and what forensic evidence
you can get in her home or apartment or car. So identifying these remains was the big, big key to this case, still unsolved.
Trooper Eaton, the location of the tote bag with the body in it -- now, Jake Boswell is telling us, as did the fisherman, that the tote bag had
gotten caught in either some tree limbs or a tree or some brush. I`m trying to figure out if you believe the tote bag -- can I see that picture
of the drive-down ramp where people drive down, you can see their tire tracks, and they`ll push their boat off.
Was it in a location where somebody could have thrown it, walked or driven down this ramp and thrown it in the water or no?
EATON: That is something that they`re absolutely trying to determine, is a source of where it was placed into the river at.
GRACE: Yes.
EATON: That river is...
GRACE: Because that`s a big deal. Did somebody on a boat and drop it of the boat? Did somebody throw it off a bridge and it floated, it followed
the current here.
Can you tell me, Trooper Eaton, was her entire body in the tote bag, or is some of it missing?
EATON: That is still kind of like the deal with the tote bag and the garbage bags. Those are things that -- luckily, we were able to identify
her, and that was very important...
[20:10:02]GRACE: Yes. OK.
EATON: ... but as how that body was...
GRACE: I get it. You`re not going to tell me. Well, Trooper, can you tell me, was there anything else in that tote bag? Was there a plastic
bag? Was there a note? Was there a receipt? Was there an article of clothing? Was there anything else in that bag other than her body? Can
you tell me that?
EATON: Yes, those type of details we`re just withholding right now.
GRACE: I understand. With me, Trooper B.J. Eaton.
I want to go now to Joe Scott Morgan, certified death investigator, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University. Joe Scott, I need
you tonight. I need you to explain to me what forensic evidence I can get from a dismembered body. We`ve got the ID on her. That`s major. We know
who she is. She`s Kristen Ray Edwards.
Now, what can you tell me, Joe Scott?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Well, obviously, we know that she has, in fact, been dismembered. I think one of the biggest
keys here is to try to determine what type of tool was used in order to dismember her body. How was it dismembered? Did the person seem as though
they knew what they were doing relative to butchering, this sort of thing?
Also, we`re going to be able to tie this back with tool marks that are left behind not just on the soft tissue, but more importantly, on the bone
itself. Wherever this person did this, they would have needed privacy in order to do this. You`re not going to do this out in a big, open field.
You`re going to be hidden and secluded, maybe in a basement, a shed, maybe in a protected wooded area where nobody else is going to get access to it
because this is a laborious job, particularly if you don`t know what you`re doing and you`ve never had exposure to trying to get rid of a body.
GRACE: OK, you know, I hear what you`re saying, Joe Scott. But get in the real world. I mean, I know you`re a professor in your ivory tower and
you`ve handled a lot of death investigations, but how many people out there have had experience dismembering a body? So I would venture to guess, Joe
Scott, no offense, that this is probably a first-time butcher, OK? Can I put it like that? I don`t think you`re going to tell that he`s dismembered
a body before.
MORGAN: Right, absolutely, unless you have somebody that, say, for instance, has butchering experience, like when it comes to hunting deer and
this sort of thing, and they know what it`s like to field dress a deer.
I`m not trying to be disrespectful here, but let`s look at it from a practicality standpoint, and that`s how the police will be looking at this.
And it takes certain specific tools in order to facilitate that.
And one of the things they`re going to be looking at is how clean these markings are. Is it something that was done mechanically, like with a
power saw, or was it something that -- where somebody had to use a saw manually in order to facilitate this. It takes quite a bit of knowledge in
order to do it cleanly.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:34]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Bruton set out on an early morning fishing trip.
BRUTON: You`re expecting to go catch you some smallmouth bass and enjoy the river. And I reached and hooked the tote and kind of flipped it over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bruton knew he was looking at human remains.
BRUTON: Just sitting right there on the edge of the river, on the right side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A 22-year-old young mom goes missing. In the last hours, we confirm she has positively been identified after a fisherman in Hart
County, Kentucky, is alerted to a tote bag out in the middle of the Green River by some little boys. When he goes to investigate, he cuts the bag
open and immediately sees a human hand. That body has just been identified as 22-year-old Kristen Edwards.
It is extremely difficult, extremely difficult to dismember a human body. Now, when you watch Dexter, for instance, it doesn`t look so hard, does it.
Well, that`s a glamorized, air-brushed movie or TV version of the actual reality of dismembering a body.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When animals are commonly being butchered, the butcher, who`s a professional, knows precisely where to cut the bone. And they also
have the benefit of using a mechanical device, a mechanical saw in order to facilitate that. In this particular case, we`re talking about a pruning
saw or a limb saw that`s used for the express purpose of trimming limbs.
Thing about this is that limbs are not near as dense as bone is. When you get into the matrix of the bone, particularly right here in the shaft, it`s
very, very difficult to cut.
Just as an example, we`re going to draw the saw across the shaft of the bone, and even under these controlled conditions, it`s very, very difficult
to do.
One of the other things that comes about is that you will have what is referred to as stop-starts. The individual doesn`t get started in quite
the particular angle, so they will readjust the bone or readjust the saw relative to the bone and begin to draw it across in multiple places.
For the police and for the forensic scientists, this is a great, great point to make because you`re going to have multiple evidences of tool marks
that will match up with the blade.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It is very hard to reconcile severing and sawing and butchering a human body when you see the face of this gorgeous young 22-year-old mom,
that that is what has happened to her.
Joining me right now is a very dear friend of Kristen Ray Edwards. Cameron Kendall is joining us. Thank you for being with us.
CAMERON KENDALL, FRIEND OF VICTIM (via telephone): Thank you, Nancy, for having me.
GRACE: How did you discover that your friend had been not only killed -- was not only dead but she was murdered and dismembered?
KENDALL: Well, I was actually at my mom`s house. And she was just on Facebook, and then she just kept scrolling and just read it. And she got -
- went in devastation mode, you know, panic mode, and she wouldn`t tell me what was going on. And you know, finally, I had to take the phone from
her, and you know, then I read it, you know, and it`s hit us down here in this community pretty hard.
[20:20:04]GRACE: The malice and the planning that had to go into dismembering this young lady`s body and then stuffing her body into a tote
bag and throwing it in a river, just throwing it away like it`s nothing -- Cameron, I don`t believe this woman had an enemy in the world. She had two
little children she was raising. What can you tell me about her? What kind of person was she?
KENDALL: Can you say it again? I didn`t hear you.
GRACE: What kind of person was Cameron Kendall? (sic) I know she was a very loving mother.
KENDALL: She loved her kids to an extreme that I didn`t know, you know, even when she didn`t have them with her at the time, you know, because I
always kept up contact with there. And you know, she was an innocent girl, a beautiful, beautiful woman. And she was nonviolent. So you know, it`s
kind of crazy to me that this kind of stuff would happen to her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:12]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just 22 years old, Kristen Edwards was a mother of two, a fisherman saying he found a tote bag in the Green River
with Edwards`s dismembered body inside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Jake Boswell from CNN affiliate WBKO. Jake, yes, she has just been identified, but the work is just starting.
I`m especially intrigued about the tote bag because I believe, other than establishing a timeline and her last known whereabouts, the tote bag could
be the key to the case. It`s made of canvas. Canvas holds a lot of forensic evidence, such as fiber, DNA. It can hold blood evidence in case
the perpetrator severed himself, like, his finger or hand while he was dismembering her.
But it`s going to take a lot of time to process that bag. Where is the bag right now?
BOSWELL: Well, at this point, we know that Kentucky State Police have that bag at their crime lab, and they`re testing it for all the things you were
talking about, looking for any trace of DNA, I`m sure looking through just about everything they can to find out exactly where this bag came from
because, obviously, it`s a unique individual bag that belonged to somebody. And that`s really one of the key pieces of evidence they`re trying to find
in this is figuring out exactly who it belonged to and really where it came from.
GRACE: You know, Jake, WBKO, she had an incredibly, let me just say, unusual, if not prophetic, if not clairvoyant Facebook posting, her last
Facebook posting. What did it say?
BOSWELL: We know her body was found on July 23rd. On July 14th, she posted on Facebook, "Somehow, I know there`s more to life than this." And
that was it. That`s was actually the last social media post she really had anywhere.
And she was relatively active on social media, so that was kind of haunting a lot of the people we`ve been talking to in the area that are friends of
hers and families. They`re kind of looking at that post and trying to examine it however they can.
GRACE: Jake Boswell joining me, WBKO. And thank you, Jake.
Joining me right now, special guest, is George Bruton. George Bruton is the fisherman that actually discovered Kristen`s body. If it weren`t for
him, she may be just a statistic in that a missing person. Her family may never have known what happened to her or had any peace. Her children may
have grown up thinking Mommy deserted them, ran off and left them, or you know, went to the grocery store and never came home.
But thanks to this man who not only fished the bag out of the Green River, cut it open and then went to police, her family now knows that while Mommy
was dead, she is murdered, there are people seeking justice on her behalf.
Mr. Bruton, thank you for being with us.
GEORGE BRUTON, FISHERMAN WHO DISCOVERED BODY (via telephone): Thank you, Nancy. How`re you doing?
GRACE: I`m very perplexed at who would do this to such a beautiful young mom of two, a girl just 2 years old, a boy just 7 months old that will
never grow up knowing their mother.
George, tell me what happened. You go down there to go fishing, and some little boys come up to you and say what?
BRUTON: Well, like I said, I went fishing early that morning, and there was some young Amish boys camping on the sandbar across from us, where I
put in. And we was talking to them and they was telling me that there was this tote in the river that stunk. And they really didn`t want to go down
there to it.
So I went down, and as I got closer it, the smell and stuff was just -- it was horrible. I got over to it, and I took my fishing gaffe and I rolled
the tote over, and inside the tote was this canvas bag. And it was actually a pretty nice canvas bag. So I knew something really wasn`t right
there at that point.
So I took my knife, and there was a small tear in it, but I couldn`t see nothing inside it. And I cut just a little bit bigger of a slit so I could
actually open it up. And when I opened it up, I could see a human hand.
And at that point right there, I knew that something bad had went on. And I notified the authorities and waited for them to come down and verify it.
GRACE: Mr. Bruton is fisherman that found Kristen Ray Edwards`s body dismembered in a tote bag. Mr. Bruton, is the tote bag big enough to hold
an entire female body?
BRUTON: It was a pretty big bag. It was really large canvas bag, so -- I mean, just...
[20:30:00] GRACE: Because when I heard tote bag -- when I was -- when I heard tote bag, Mr. Bruton, I just thought of a -- like a gym bag, which
really couldn`t hold an entire body. But I`m getting the idea that it was much bigger than that?
BRUTON: Yeah, it was a lot larger bag than that.
GRACE: Could you see anything else in there? Was she in a trash bag or a plastic bag or was there newspaper, anything else in it that you could see?
BRUTON: No. There was a lot of plastic wrapped around the bag. But inside the bag where she was at, it was just her body.
GRACE: So, she was wrapped in plastic. There has got to be forensic evidence on plastic if the killer was not wearing gloves. There`s got to be
fingerprints, smeared though they may be. You dismember a body and you`re wrapping it in plastic and you don`t have on gloves? I`m telling you, there
are fingerprints, there is fiber, there is a hair, there`s something in that plastic that was wrapped around the body of Kristen Edwards.
You know, Mr. Bruton, very often police look at who found the body, because it`s very rare. Most of us don`t happen upon a dead body. Were you ever,
even for one moment, afraid that if you went to police, that somehow you would get tangled up in they`d be looking at you?
BRUTON: No. Never at no point was I concerned of that. I didn`t even know of the person or anything and I was just trying to do the right thing. I
really wasn`t as worried about that as making sure that police was notified and somebody could do the right thing.
GRACE: You know Mr. Bruton, I want to thank you on behalf of all crime victims because, you know, I`m a crime victim. At least I had the peace of
knowing what had happened to my fiance, when he was murdered, you know, still in college.
At least I know what happened and you know that went through the court systems. A lot of people suffer even more. They never know what happened.
Mr. Bruton, I know it was a horrible thing for you to have gone through, but if you haven`t done that, these children might have grown up thinking
their mom just abandoned them and left them. And it`s awful as this is, at least they know that their mother died still loving them.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK
NANCY GRACE, CNN HEADLINE NEWS HOST: Crime-victim-turned-crime-fighter, Hailey Dean, is back in "Murder in the Courthouse."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The unstoppable prosecutor digs in to track down a killer, but could she wind up the next victim? Find out in the third book
in Nancy`s best-selling series.
GRACE: Portions of proceeds go to Help Find Missing Children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pre-order your copy now on Amazon, barnesandnoble.com and more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: He calls 911 to say his baby boy is not breathing. But then, he says he spends 15 minutes searching online what to do before he even calls EMTs.
This Oregon dad Googles `father hates infant` and quote, `afraid of abusing my baby` before his 11-week-old son is found dead.
Tonight, outrage. A judge throws out daddy`s Google searches. Will there ever be justice for 11-week-old baby Bryan?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After serving only four years of a possible life sentence, Oregon father Kaliq Mansor could become a free man, saying that
the trial judge made a mistake by letting in some evidence that wasn`t appropriate. Now, prosecutors must decide whether or not to retry Mansor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Pat LaLama, managing editor Crime Watch Daily. Pat, thank you for being with us. It`s really difficult for me to understand why
a judge or a court would throw out Google searches. I mean, we saw Google searches and internet searches, for instance in (ph) "Tot Mom" where
somebody on "Tot Mom`s" computer with her password goes in and looks up how to make homemade chloroform and how to commit a murder. So, why would a
judge throw out a father`s Google search on `I`m afraid I`m going to abuse my baby.` Why?
PAT LALAMA, CRIME WATCH DAILY MANAGING EDITOR: Well, the answer, according to the court, is that the affidavit used to try to get the search warrant
execute -- to get it executed was way too broad. Simply said, we want everything on these computers. When the defense attorneys were arguing it
only should have been that 15 minutes when the baby was struggling and he was searching ways to help the child. That, according to the court, so they
threw the entire thing out.
GRACE: OK. Let me tell you something right now. Unleash the lawyers. Randy Kessler out of Atlanta; Seema Iyer out of New York.
Randy Kessler, I mean, very often, and in fact, practically every search warrant whether you or Seema like it or not, police put in a catchall. We
are looking for the 15 minutes where the father says he looked for ways to help his child as the child is dying. And any catchall and any other
evidence on that hard drive, cell phone, laptop, whatever he was using that would indicate a murder took place or that there was a crime on the baby.
Seema, you know, I see you shaking your head, no. But Randy, you have tried enough criminal cases to know that those catchalls and search warrants are,
in fact, approved by the U.S. Supreme Court. So, shake your head around all you want to but the U.S. Supreme Court has condoned catchall search
warrants. Is that true?
[20:40:00] RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: OK. It may be, yes. But you know what? You got to have ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yes. The truth.
KESSLER: ... all right, but the judge can`t say let`s go fish and see whatever we find and then we`ll throw it all up against the wall and see
what sticks. You got to have it a little bit narrowed. And if they`re banking their whole case on a Google search, then he shouldn`t be jailed.
They got to have more than that and I know they do have more than that.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That`s the point. You know what? Let`s examine what you just said. To Michael Christian, we`ve got Randy Kessler saying there must be more.
Well, in fact, there is.
Let`s talk about the day that baby Bryan dies. Statements, for instance, Michael Christian, the father made to the mom that afternoon going, `hey,
hey, hey, a baby could fit in a microwave.`
You know what? I`d jerk a knot in his neck right then. Somebody jumps up talking about putting a baby in the microwave? But he made that statement
and several other odd statements, but that`s not all. What happened that day, Michael?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, the mom wasn`t home. She was off giving a piano lesson and he was alone home with the two babies,
the two twins, Kaliq Mansor, and he said that little Bryan, he was giving him a combination of some liquid vitamins and some baby formula, and he
started coughing. He was fussing and formula started coming out of his nose and his mouth.
So he said he turned him over, he shook him, he smacked him on the backside but he wasn`t breathing very well. And what seems to be the strangest part
is rather than immediately calling 911, he said that for 15 minutes he looked online, searched for what might be wrong with his baby and finally
when he realized his breathing was so labored, that`s when he called 911.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did an Oregon father cause the death of his son? Sir little Bryan Mansor was diagnosed as brain dead with injuries consistent
with shaken baby syndrome. But now, an Oregon Appeals Court has overturned Mansor`s conviction. Could Kaliq Mansor walk free?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A baby boy just 11 weeks old, dead. Tonight, who is going to be his voice? Who is going to seek justice for Bryan? Certainly not the judge that
threw out the evidence. There is evidence that this dad Googles `father hates infant`, `I`m afraid of abusing my baby`, `how do I deal with a
screaming baby?` I mean, who would Google -- Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers."
Bethany, who would Google the words, "father hates infant?" I mean, just when I said that, Bethany, I just envisioned walking up behind my husband
when he`s reading the iPad and seeing him Googling "father hates infant." I don`t even know what I would do. Either cry or kick him out of the house or
both.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, Nancy, this little baby`s mother says that when she saw the dad on the stand, he showed no remorse in court
and she felt that that day she lost the man she loved.
So here, she thinks she has these 11-week-old twins with a loving husband and father. She leaves for a piano lesson and then she comes back and one
of the babies is brain dead.
What concerns me about this case is there`s a surviving twin who was also abused. What happens if this twin`s father walks free? This twin is going
to be afraid of homicidal dad for the rest of his life. So now we have yet another victim that`s not being served well by this judge because dad`s
going to be roaming free in society potentially.
GRACE: You know another issue, to Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert. Ben, I`m looking at it in black and white. What is evidence? What can I use
to prove this case? What could come in? What won`t come in?
I`d like to find out, Ben, if we look at those Google searches, specifically when he says he searched to try to find a way to save the baby
as it relates to these other searches. `Abused newborn symptoms`, `abused children`, `abused newborn`, `shaken baby`, `child abuse`, `child abuse`,
`emotional sex`, `neglect`, `horrific abuse`, `calm a fussy baby`, signs of abused infant`, `holding baby upside down`? What? I mean, can they look,
Ben Levitan, you`re the digital expert, can they look and see how close these searches were in relation to the child`s death?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Nancy, well the first crime is not calling 911 immediately. The second thing is he, himself, gave the police
the search terms he was using. You have to understand, when you do -- you know, we do forensic dumps of computers all the time. And we`re only
allowed to turn over material that`s related to the specific crime.
So everything that we have talked about is related to the specific crime, and the way they did the search, because he gave them the terms, `baby not
breathing` and things like that these are the terms that came up, Nancy. Not all the searches are timestamped. So, they could not just go back and
say `give us the 15 minutes before 911 was called.` That`s not possible.
And the second thing here, Nancy, is when you do -- you know, it very often happens with forensic analysis of a phone looking for evidence of, you
know, of a robbery or something like that and then we`ll find child porn. That`s not ...
(CROSSTALK)
[20:50:00] GRACE: Right.
LEVITAN: ... related to the crime, so it`s not admitted.
GRACE: I don`t know if I would agree with that, Ben Levitan, whether it`s admissible or not admissible, because for instance, when you go into a home
and you`re looking for a stolen T.V. and you see a line of cocaine on the coffee table, all that comes into evidence.
I`m not so sure that porn on a cell phone when you`re looking for something else won`t come into evidence. In fact, I disagree with you on that.
To, very quickly, to Seema Iyer, can I see Seema`s face, please? Seema Iyer, I see you vehemently disagreeing, but just so you know, the baby that
died had a previously broken rib. The baby`s only 11 week`s old and the baby`s twin had six fractures.
SEEMA IYER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And this all goes to my point, Nancy, that this man could have been suffering from some type of post partum
depression. Men can suffer too.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: The man?
IYER: Yes. Yes, Nancy, that could happen. And you know what, it`s so egregious that this mother had noticed -- she was out on notice (ph), she
knew something was going on with the husband, the kids are being abused and she does nothing. Nothing. So ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What`s your problem with the father going to jail? Now, this is what we`re talking about. We`re not talking about the fantasy world.
IYER: Because he may not be -- because he may not be mentally competent enough ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK. So ...
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: ... to be put in jail.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... you`re actually arguing that the father who was looking up `I`m afraid I`m going to abuse my baby` on Google ...
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: OK, OK.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You`re saying, he had postpartum depression?
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That was a yes/no. I`m sorry, right. All right.
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: And Nancy, wait, I have more evidence. I have more evidence. The mom even said, when he testified, he was blank. He didn`t have remorse. Further
evidence that he is under ...
(CROSSTALK)
IYER: ... some severe psychosis and couldn`t even feel remorse. And that ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Because he knows he`s going to jail.
IYER: Nancy, you`re being so unsympathetic. You cannot only look at the kids and the mom.
GRACE: Cut her mike. Cut her mike before my mike -- ear hurts. I am being sympathetic, Seema Iyer. I`m being sympathetic to the baby boy that was
killed by shaken baby syndrome. That is what the forensic evidence shows, retinal hemorrhaging, swelling to the brain, previous fracture of the rib,
his twin brother six fractures. They`re only 11 weeks old. That is where my sympathy lies. As far as I`m concerned, that father can go straight to hell
with a brief stop in the penitentiary.
When a baby is in intensive care, a family`s life is upside down. In many cities, there`s unexpected financial challenges like the cost of a place to
live, a place to park, food. They run into thousands of dollars. It`s a problem. This week`s CNN hero doesn`t want anyone to suffer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARRIE MEGHIE, CNN HERO: These babies are in the NICU for not days but months at a time. When your child`s gonna be in the hospital for a long-
term stay, you think about all the medical expenses or, you know, things of that nature. But when you end up with the reality that this parking is
gonna cost you, you know, so much money, it`s not something that people expect. It`s definitely, you know, a significant burden on families and
there are a lot of babies who are alone a lot of the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To see how Carrie Meghie is helping families spend more time with their babies in the NICU, go to CNNHeroes.com and nominate who you think
should be a 2016 hero.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON COOPER, "ANDERSON COOPER 360o ANCHOR: Tonight is the final night of the Democratic National Convention. I`m Anderson Cooper coming from
Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia.
Scheduled this hour, General John Allen and a performance by Katy Perry. And later, the main event, we`ll hear a historic speech from Hillary
Clinton, the first woman to become a major party`s presidential nominee. Clinton will be introduced by her daughter Chelsea. More CNN Convention
updates throughout the evening.
GRACE: A little baby is found dead and then we find out the father has been doing searches, Google searches, on `I`m afraid I`m going to abuse my
baby`, `child abuse`, `child abuse and neglect`. Outrage tonight, a court throws out the internet searches. Why? Why throw them out? Another thing,
Pat LaLama, managing editor, Crime Watch Daily. Pat, what can you tell me, does the phrase "Candy Van" mean anything to you, Pat?
LALAMA: Yeah, prepare yourself. The authorities found on his devices, a video called "Candy Van." Now, wait till you hear this. The protagonist
drives around in an ice cream truck, picks up 10 kids, physically or sexually abuses them and then in some scenarios you might be able to throw
a child on the ground, stomp on the child until there`s a pool of blood.
This was on his computer and he is alleged to have actually played that game. Excuse me, consciousness of guilt? Maybe, maybe not.
GRACE: You know, I`m sure the defense attorneys could argue it means nothing, but I bet to a jury it would.
Let`s remember American hero, Army Staff Sergeant Alfredo Silva, 35, Calexico, California. Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Loved time at the family
ranch, softball, San Diego Padres, the Chargers. Mother, Teresa; widow, Cecilia; daughter, Mariel. Alfredo Silva, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern. And
until then, good night, friend.
[21:00:00]
END
