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Nancy Grace
Boy, 10, Dies on World`s Tallest Water Slide; Daughter Found Killed on Jogging Path Near Home; Another Slain Jogger was Google Employee. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 08, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. It is 17 stories tall, higher than the Statue of Liberty. It drops riders at 65 mph. A family
afternoon outing turns deadly when a Kansas senator`s 10-year-old little boy goes airborne and dies on the so-called world`s tallest water slide
named the Verruckt, German for "crazy." But what went wrong?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Kansas City, Kansas, tragedy on Schlitterbahn Verruckt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are saddened to share that a young boy died on Verruckt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: State lawmaker`s son died tragically, riding the world`s tallest water slide in Kansas. Caleb Thomas Schwab was just 10
years old. He was killed while riding the Verruckt, a towering, 17-story water slide at Schlitterbahn Water Park.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A gorgeous young 30-year-old vanishes while jogging not far from her own home. In a shocking twist, her retired firefighter dad out
searching with police, desperately looking for his daughter, finds her body in marshland near the jogging path when (ph) evidence she was both sex
assaulted and strangled in broad daylight. This as eerie journal entries seem to predict her own death. As Katrina (sic) laid to rest, tonight, new
clues emerge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter was a force to be reckoned with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sexual assault and murder of jogger Karina Vetrano.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You will be reckoning with that force as you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) burn in hell!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. It`s 17 stories tall. It drops riders at 65 mph. It`s taller than the Statue of Liberty. A family afternoon outing turns deadly
when a Kansas senator`s 10-year-old little boy goes airborne and dies on the so-called world`s tallest water slide named the Verruckt, German for
"crazy."
But tonight, what went wrong? Video emerging of that water slide, the Verruckt, with blood on it, a shocking sight for friends and families of
this 10-year-old little boy. The family there at the water park with him when this occurs.
Out to Nan Yates, news director with WIBW. Nan, what happened?
NAN YATES, WIBW RADIO (via telephone): Nancy, that`s the question of the hour. We are searching for answers here in Topeka, Kansas. We know here
at the station -- we know Scott Schwab very well and work with him on a regular basis. This has come as, obviously, a shock to the entire
community.
The -- almost every agency that we have contacted is keeping very tight- lipped about this, but we do know that there is a massive inspection being conducted.
GRACE: Well, what I want to find out, Nan Yates from WIBW, is what happened that day. I`m fact-finding.
YATES: OK.
GRACE: I`m trying to figure out what happened. So the family goes to the water park. I mean, the German translation of Verruckt is "insane" or
"crazy." And it is billed as a ride for thrill seekers. There was an age limit on this thing that was 14 years old. That was removed.
So I don`t understand how a 10-year-old little boy can just get onto a ride that`s taller than the Statue of Liberty and brings you down at 65 mph. So
that day, Nan, what happened?
YATES: They -- I`m sorry, Nancy. They had removed the age requirement and instituted a height requirement of 54 inches. Now, whether Caleb Schwab
had met that height requirement is unknown right now.
GRACE: I`m being joined right now by Kyung Lah, CNN national correspondent. Thank you for being with us. That day -- what I`m trying
to get at is what happened that day, the day little Caleb dies on a water slide that`s there in an amusement park. You would think it`s OK for
children. I mean, my son is just 8 years old. He`s already as tall as I am. So a height requirement doesn`t necessarily cover all the bases. It`s
not a security net, in my opinion.
But I`m trying to find out what exactly do we think happened
[20:05:04]KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We just don`t know. I spoke with the police department today, the Kansas City Police Department. They are
the lead agency investigating this. What they have told me is that they are conducting what is -- they`re calling it a death investigation.
They`re looking at whether or not criminal charges might apply in this case. They just don`t know yet.
As far as those details that you`re getting at, those nitty-gritty details, we just don`t know. From what we have heard, again, it is the height
requirement. That is what was in place. We do not know if he actually met that height requirement.
But I think what`s really going to apply here, Nancy, is weight. You have to have three people, and the weight has to be 400 to 500 pounds. So
that`s really going to be key in this investigation.
GRACE: You know what? That makes perfect sense because you want to hold that raft down.
Kyle Peltz, on the story, these are the things that I know from our own investigation. I know that the people, the passengers on this -- let`s see
video of the ride, please. When you get on the Verruckt, you are strapped in.
Now, he, the little boy, wasn`t the only one that was injured. He lost his life, but apparently, an adult, at least one other adult comes out.
There`s reported blood on the water slide. That means he didn`t necessarily drown, but we don`t have a COD, cause of death, yet. Did he
drown? Was he struck because he came out of the raft? There are reports by eyewitnesses that he went airborne.
Hold on. Here`s what an eyewitness says, Kyle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lady in front of me said that multiple times, she rode the ride today, the Verruckt, and that the front harness did not work
any of the times that she rode it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So Kyle, I believe the mom was there with other members of the family because witnesses state she was screaming out, That is my boy. That
is my boy, trying to figure out what happened. Clearly, the mother is with him, and there`s no way she would have allowed him to get on a ride that
appeared to be for adults or teens or was not appropriate for him. I mean, that`s why she was there. She was watching out for him.
So what do we know? Were witnesses there that state he went airborne, Kyle?
KYLE PELTZ, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): That`s right, Nancy. There were witnesses there. One witness, at least, said they saw the boy
fly into the air after the first steep drop of that slide, causing him to hit the netting.
GRACE: Hit the netting, but how would that have killed him? I just don`t understand. I`m understanding that he did go airborne, that another adult
came out, as well. Does that mean that the strapping mechanism didn`t work?
OK, listen to what we dug up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Creator Jeff Henry (ph) tells the Travel Channel that initially, some of those sandbags (ph) didn`t survive the ride`s test run.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tipped over and kill (ph) every sandbag in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from ABC News and "Extreme Water Parks" on the Travel Channel -- "Extreme Water Parks."
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Darryl Cohen from Atlanta, Mindy Smith, defense attorney in Atlanta, as well.
So Darryl Cohen, why would you have a ride that means -- Verruckt means "insane," insanity, crazy. One of the ads -- Justin, see if you can pull
up that ad for me. The ad is, Are you insane, but you will allow a 10- year-old child on the ride. I mean, when I go somewhere with the children, I`m very careful. But I look at what the safety precautions are, and if it
says it`s a height requirement, I would think that there was nothing wrong with it.
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It seems to me, Nancy, that number one, insanity is what we live with. It`s what the press wants us to do. It`s
what sells rides.
GRACE: I don`t even know what you`re saying.
COHEN: What I`m saying is if it`s not insane, if it`s boring, the kids are not going to do it. So yes, there`s a height requirement. We don`t know
what happened to this young man. We don`t know if this child -- if he fell through. We do know based on eyewitnesses that he took a flight. He took
a flight that he shouldn`t have taken, and obviously, we`ve got a problem we don`t know how to fix because we don`t know what it was.
GRACE: You know, Mindy Smith, Darryl Cohen`s argument sounds dangerously like, Well, everybody else is doing it. Just because it`s there does not
mean that it`s OK.
MINDY SMITH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I mean, we don`t know -- we don`t have enough information at this time. We don`t know if this child or
anyone else riding in the raft...
GRACE: Put them up.
SMITH: ... if they were...
GRACE: Put them up!
SMITH: ... disobeying instructions.
GRACE: Disobeying instructions!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!
SMITH: Part of being on these rides is making sure you adhere to the instructions given to you when you get on the ride.
GRACE: First of all...
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: ... supposed to have your hands up, et cetera -- you`re not supposed to have your hands up out of the ride. You`re not supposed to
lift your body up. We don`t know what happened yet. We don`t know exactly what happened with this child.
[20:10:00]GRACE: OK...
SMITH: It`s possible...
GRACE: ... I hear you.
SMITH: ... that he and other individuals were not following the instructions for the proper use of the ride.
GRACE: OK, I`m glad you got that off your chest because there`s no evidence whatsoever that they were not following instructions.
And I`d like to just pose this, throw it out to the two of you. Think back. Think back to law school. Remember something called strict
liability? It applies to dangerous activities such as circuses that have lions and tigers and bears or explosive materials, fireworks, or dropping a
building with dynamite. All of those are strict liability activities, as is a water slide like this.
And what that means, Darryl Cohen, as you well know -- you`re a practicing lawyer -- strict liability means it doesn`t matter whether you`re negligent
or not, whether the amusement park is negligent or not. This is an inherently dangerous activity. And if somebody gets hurt, much less a 10-
year-old little boy dying, it`s on them!
COHEN: Well, Nancy, it`s not necessarily on them. It`s caveat emptor, as well, let the buyer beware. The child`s mother should have said, Hey, wait
a minute. He looks like he`s too thin. But no, she didn`t do that.
GRACE: Why would any...
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: Wait a minute, Nancy. What we know right now is...
GRACE: ... mother say that he`s too thin?
COHEN: ... we don`t know anything. We don`t know anything right now.
GRACE: OK, I think we do.
COHEN: And we`re jumping and speculating. No, we don`t.
GRACE: I think we do know something.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: To Nan...
SMITH: I agree with Darryl.
GRACE: I`m sure I hear an echo. Nan Yates, isn`t it true that we believe there was only a height requirement?
YATES: That`s what we know right now.
GRACE: To Kyung Lah joining me, CNN national correspondent. What do you know about the requirements of getting on this ride?
LAH: The only thing that we have heard is you do have to be able to climb a large number of steps. There is a staircase, a ladder, if you will, that
you have to be able to climb. So you have to have some level of physical fitness, some level of strength to get up there. But once you`re at the
top, it is simply the height. That is the only thing that we`ve heard, Nancy.
GRACE: This is video from the Schlitterbahn Studios Design Group`s YouTube page. Take a look at this thing. Hold on. Keep it going. Keep -- good
Lord in -- it`s making my chest hurt just watching this.
And I can just hear him begging mom, Mom, let me ride it. Let me ride it. Come on! So it`s a deep drop. You go up a hill. Then you go down another
deep drop. I`m just curious about who else was on that ride and why an adult apparently flew out of the raft, as well. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Horrible. I have two 12-year-olds with me today and still very emotional. I just saw everyone`s faces as they waited, you
know, to see if it was their loved ones that were affected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:52]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We honestly don`t know what`s happened. That`s why an investigation, a full investigation is necessary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lady in front of me said that multiple times, she road the ride today, the Verruckt, and that the front harness did not work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Witnesses describe the boy going down the steep 158- foot drop of the world`s tallest water slide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A 10-year-old little boy loses his life on this water slide, the Verruckt. The German translation for that is "insane," insanity, crazy.
Take a listen to this. It seems as if the slides suffered delays.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the ride opened two years ago, sliders had to be at least 14 years of age. That has since changed. But before the ride
even opened, many raised questions about its safety, especially after watching these early safety tests showing sandbag dummies flying off the
slide. The ride`s opening delayed at least three times while the park reworked it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, apparently, even with three delays, it opened too soon. That is from ABC`s "Good Morning America."
Unless all those kinks were worked out -- did you see that sandbag flying off of the water slide? A 10-year-old boy dead, his mom screaming below,
That`s my boy, that is my son, blood actually on the water slide. Absolutely unacceptable!
Joining me is Kyung Lah, CNN national correspondent. Isn`t it true, Kyung, that the two women that were with him were friends of the family. He was
not sitting up there alone. And one of them suffered a broken jaw and one of them suffered broken facial bones and had to have stitches across her
face?
LAH: We haven`t heard anything about injuries to the other people, the police department really playing it close to the vest.
What I can tell you is paint a picture of what this day looked like. It was elected official day. This 10-year-old boy, 10-year-old Caleb, is the
son of Kansas state representative, Republican Scott Schwab. So these were children of elected officials in the state who were there enjoying a day at
the water park.
And what the water park did say in a statement that they released a short time ago is that safety is their priority. The park has not had a rampant
(ph) number of injuries since it opened in 2014.
And that video that you`re referring to, where you see that raft fly off that second bump that you`re talking about, that second drop, it`s a 50-
foot drop. And when that raft took off and they saw how safety certainly is something they needed to work on, they rebuilt that section of the
slide. So they went through a number of slides and they signed that this was safe for people to use. The owner of the park, as well as the designer
of the slide, were the first ones to take the slide before they opened, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, as a matter of fact, we have video. We have dug up video of the designer on the ride. Look.
(VIDEO CLIP)
[20:20:32]GRACE: That is video of the designer riding the ride. It`s from the Schlitterbahn Studios Design Group YouTube page.
Kyle Peltz on the story, our producer. Kyle, several local outlets are reporting the two women that got on the ride with him, one suffered broken
facial bones, the other broke her jaw.
PELTZ: That`s right, Nancy. Caleb was reportedly riding with two adult women who were reportedly friends of the family. And they also, as you
said, were injured during this. One of them apparently suffered a broken jaw and the other one suffered a broken bone in her face and had to have
stitches in her eye.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:16]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Verruckt, which translates to "insane" in German, propels riders down a steep incline from a platform higher than
Niagara Falls, reaching speeds of 50 miles an hour. It then sends up the raft up and down a second incline.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Schlitterbahn closed the park and blocked access to the slide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now from the amusement ride safety is analyst and inspector Ken Martin. Ken, thank you so much for being wit us. When you
heard that this had happened on the crazy water slide, the Verruckt, what was your first reaction?
KEN MARTIN, AMUSEMENT RIDE SAFETY ANALYST AND INSPECTOR (via telephone): Nancy, thanks for having me. My first reaction was just unbelievable. The
grief of the entire incident just overcame me because this is not what we`re supposed to do when people come into an amusement park. We`re
supposed to give you a good safe ride out and bring you back safely, and that`s not what happened yesterday.
GRACE: Well, I`ve got -- oh, everybody, you`re seeing video from the Schlitterbahn Studio Design Group YouTube page.
Ken Martin, it just so happened that this weekend, I took the children, the twins, to Orlando Universal. And we went to Harry Potter World. It was
all they wanted to do. And there were rides there and there were height requirements, and I never thought to think, Wow, is this safe? I mean
(INAUDIBLE) all belted and strapped in. I couldn`t move, practically, I was strapped in so much. And they were pretty mild, I think. There was
one that made you feel like you were moving a lot, but the intensity of the ride is not my point.
My point is when a parent goes somewhere, I trusted what the Harry Potter signs said, and they were accurate, by the way. The rides were extremely
safe and well thought out, well designed and fun for children.
So when you go to an amusement park and you see, Well, here`s a height requirement, you assume that it bears a correlation to the safety
mechanisms, right?
I mean, obviously, something went horribly wrong, and it makes me worried about other water slides across the country.
MARTIN: Well, you have to remember, this is an extreme water slide. It`s advertised that way. Make no mistake, they have warned people that it is
extreme. The question comes into play is what happened from the time this young man -- man -- he was a boy, make no mistake, he was a boy -- when he
got from the top of the slide until the time he loaded in the raft until the time he got dispatched down to the bottom.
You know, I have questions. How do they know that there was 400 to 500 pounds of weight in that raft? How do we know they were given
instructions? How do we know that the park did everything that they had to do to ensure those riders were to be safe going down?
And the reason I say that is because there`s no federal oversight of fixed ride amusement parks. These types of rides -- the rides you took your
children on, there`s no federal oversight. There`s no state oversight on parks in Florida.
We have a problem here in the industry. It`s easily fixable, but nobody wants the additional regulation. I find it ironic that the state senator`s
son happened to be the son of a state senator who is basically anti- government regulation.
GRACE: I don`t know about his politics, and I think his politics have absolutely nothing to do with this. I know this is a 10-year-old child
that is about 15 months older than my twins.
You are just seeing video from Amusement Forces YouTube Page. Justin, I want to see that video again that we obtained, where the sandbag or the two
flew off. Can you pull that up for me?
Nan Yates, the news director at WIBW -- Nan, what can you tell me? I know there were two people on -- oh, dear Lord in heaven! Oh! It`d be a cold
day in you know where before I would let anybody get on that! Now, that`s from ABC`s "GMA" and the Travel Channel.
But let me tell you something. This slide suffered delays at least three times, and I think I know why. Nan Yates, there were two other people on
there. What can you tell me about a weight requirement?
YATES: OK, here`s what we know, the most updated information we have. Of course, the height requirement is 54 inches. We don`t know if Caleb Schwab
met that particular requirement. But if you have two to three people on a raft to go down this water slide, their combined weight must be between 400
and 550 pounds.
[20:30:02] GRACE: You know, this is all I have to say to Dr. Lillian Glass, Psychologist joining me out of LA, you know, homicide comes in many
different ways.
You can run over somebody, you can be a drunk driver, or you can take a gun or a knife. There`s aggravated assault and murder with your hands, even
your feet being lethal weapon. You can give somebody poison. You can leave them in a hot car.
Whoever is responsible for letting this child on this raft, if it was not the right, the correct weight requirement or height and now this child is
dead, I don`t see why this should not be a criminal prosecution.
It doesn`t matter how the child is killed. This is a 10 year old child that did nothing but get on the waterslide.
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly, Nancy and just the repercussions for the family. I mean they`ll never get over this. Even people that saw what
happened, the post-traumatic stress. Even people watching your show tonight are going to be suffering knowing my goodness this could happen to me, it
could happen to my child. So, the implications are very severe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:35:00] GRACE: Crime, victim turned crime fighter Haley Dean is back in "Murder in the Courthouse."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The unstoppable prosecutor digs in to track down a killer. But could she wind up the next victim? Find out in the third book
in Nancy`s best selling series.
GRACE: Portions of proceeds go to help find missing children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pre-order your copy now on Amazon, barnesandnoble.com and more.
GRACE: My proceeds to National central missing exploited children go to murderinthecourthouse.com, Amazon books, Books A Million. Pre-orders come
within an autograph manuscript page from "Murder in the Courthouse."
A gorgeous young 30-year-old vanishes while jogging not far from her own home. In a shocking twist, her retired fire fighter dad out searching with
the police desperately looking for his daughter actually is the one to find her body in Marsh land near the jogging path. There is evidence she was sex
assaulted and strangled in broad daylight. As Karina is laid to rest tonight, new clues emerge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look into my eyes, everybody because I`m going to address the coward, the pathetic, puny, weak piece of filth that you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search continues for whoever killed the 30-year-old while she was jogging.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You will pay forever.
GRACE: It is shocking that this young lady living at home with her parents reportedly helping her father as he nurses the mom through cancer goes for
a run. Now, typically she always ran with her dad. This time, she did not.
And, now she is dead as he desperately is out searching for her. The father, retired NYPD fire-fighter finds his beloved daughter`s body.
Tonight, new details emerging but first, listen to what her mother has to say.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, now, look into my eyes everybody because I`m going to address the coward. Whoever you are, whether you`re one, whether
you`re ten I`m going to just use singular. But, I`m here to remind you in case you don`t already know that now it`s the whole entire world against
you. The whole entire world knows what a pathetic, puny, weak, piece of filth (beep) that you are. The whole world knows that, and soon, I know
they`re all going to know your face as well.
GRACE: I respect that mom so much. I remember when my fiance was murdered. There is no way that I had the strength to stand up and address his killer
in the way she did so strong coming out swinging by god.
Tonight, there are developments in the search for Karina`s killer. To Chris Spargo, reporter dailymail.com, what do we know?
CHRIS SPARGO, DAILY MAIL REPORTER: Well, we know that last Tuesday obviously Karina went out for a run. She used to run with her father. She
went alone this one time. She didn`t respond after a few hours. The search party found her body.
And still this person who did this is still -- we don`t know who it is, but they are recovering new evidence. We do know now that she was sexually
assaulted. We do know that DNA was recovered from her body.
And we do know have a sneaker and headphones that are hoping they`ll get more DNA from.
[20:40:00] GRACE: You know what`s interesting about that Matt Zarrell, the fact that we were -- when we first reported the story asking for the public
to help, we were wondering is this a sophisticated killer that kept so- called trophies like many serial killers do. We were looking for her sneaker and headphones. Those have been found. Where were they found and
what does it tell me about the killer?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: OK. So, reports are that the sneaker was found less than 100 feet from the body. The headphones were found about
15 to 30 feet from the edge of the pathway. But what`s important here Nancy is that the sneaker and headphones were found on either side of the unpaved
bicycle path where police believe the killer was lurking, lying in wait for his victim.
GRACE: If he picked these up and threw them, then his finger prints are going to be on there and as Chris Spargo from dailymail.com just told us,
we now believe that DNA evidence has been found.
To Dr. Sean Enloe, Forensic Pathologist joining me out of LA, Dr. Enloe, thank you for being with us, question to you. We know Dr. Enloe that she
was sex assaulted. There is vaginal and anal trauma to her body.
We also know that her teeth were cracked. We know that a condom and a wrapper, a used condom and a wrapper, was found nearby. If the DNA off her
body can be matched up to any spermatozoa in the condom, then we have a lot of evidence, do we not?
DR. SEAN ENLOE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Potentially, yes. And if the assailant is in a database that it can be matched too that could basically
be very damning evidence.
Unfortunately, a lot of times we don`t have such databases established. So, we may have information that if other evidence comes to light we`ll link
him.
But, we`ll have to see how well this pans out but it could be potentially very damning.
GRACE: Listen to the mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Soon we`re going to have a face to the (beep) piece of garbage that you are. And above and beyond you all, you know that my
daughter was a force to be reckoned with.
And I guarantee you, I guarantee you, you mother (beep) that you will be reckoning with that force not only for the rest of your pathetic life but
for the rest of eternity as you (beep) burn in hell.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter was a force to be reckoned with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sexual assault and murder of jogger, Karina Vetrano.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You will be reckoning with that force as you (beep) burn in hell.
GRACE: We are not letting up whoever attacked and murdered Karina Vetrano will be brought to justice. We also know that there are claims now, this is
from police sources, that at least one or more of Karina`s teeth that were cracked is where she bit her attacker. Now, tell me there`s not DNA there.
To, Matt Zarrell, Dr. Sean Enloe was telling us about DNA and was referring to a DNA databank called CODIS. It`s very similar to a DNA - to another
databank called AFES which is the collection of millions of people`s fingerprints from felons, to people convicted of a dismeanor; to public
employees like myself I have to give my fingerprints when I became a prosecutor.
So, what is CODIS Matt Zarrell and how can that play into this case?
ZARRELL: OK. A CODIS is the FBIs program of support for criminal justice DNA. Basically any federal, state or local conviction of a felony, for the
most part depending on the state, will be -- the DNA of that purport we put into the system for life.
Any time cops retrieve DNA and they put it into the CODIS system, if the person who has that DNA has a prior felony on their record, they`re going
to pop up on that CODIS system.
GRACE: And in many jurisdictions it`s not just a felony DNA like rape, like assault and so forth that goes into it. In some jurisdictions, we are told
that misdemeanor violent felons go in to the CODIS database as well.
We already know Chris Spargo that the police are using an unorthodox method which I totally endorse including for instance Chris, they have rousted up
everyone in the last say six months that was charged with vagrancy or hanging out in that area along the beach that jogging path or smoking pot
or generally loitering or causing trouble in that area to try and find this person.
They`ve done that. They have located as many sex offender as possible, registered sex offenders in that area. They are leaving no stone unturned.
They say they`re going to cut the grass down with machetes to make sure they don`t miss a single piece of evidence. Is all that confirm Chris
Spargo?
SPARGO: That is. And in fact even tonight they`re actually getting together. In Queens nearby about 7 p.m. they are having a large community
meeting to see what else they can do. Just anyone who has seen anyone in this area at any point because they are so certain now this person was
waiting to attack and then jump this young woman.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, what about their use of those summonses on vagrant, loiterers and so forth in that area during the last six months. That`s not
the first time that`s been done, right?
[20:50:00] ZARRELL: No, we`ve discussed this Nancy that Son of Sam, David Berkowitz was actually caught because of parking tickets. I believe it was
in front of a fire hydrant that he parked and it was near the area of one of the crime scenes and that`s what led them to find the Son of Sam
originally.
GRACE: Ben Levitan joining me out of Raleigh, Telecommunications expert. Ben what can they do? They have found her cell phone. Tell me, what does
the NYPD Sting Ray equipment do exactly?
That was brought in. Not only that, tell me how would -- you`re seeing exclusive photos right now from dailymail.com. Also, how would a still
tower dump, help me right now.
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, Nancy as you may know every cell tower covers a specific area of New York, a very small area, maybe a
few blocks in that area.
If the police can go to the cell phone companies and say dump me the phone number of every phone that use this cell tower around the time of the crime
say that one-hour period around the time of the crime.
What we`re going to find is? We`re going to find a list of people who were in the area and maybe witnesses that weren`t even aware of it. They may
have seen something. It`s a tremendous value to contact those people.
Second, we may find the suspect in that list, Nancy.
GRACE: Joining me right now in addition to Ben Levitan, Telecommunications Expert a very special guest, it is a friend of Karina Vetrano`s, Anna
Psyllakis is with us. Anna, thank you for being with us.
ANNA PSYLLAKIS, FRIEND OF VICTIM, KARINA VETRANO: Thank you.
GRACE: When did you learn that your friend had been murdered?
PSYLLAKIS: I actually learned the morning after she had been murdered, I learned one Facebook.
GRACE: Anna Psyllakis joining us a friend of Karina`s. Anna, we often report on murder statistics, crimes, violent crimes, what can you tell me
about her, Karina, the person?
PSYLLAKIS: We went away together. We went to Cypress and you know, she just wanted to see the world. She was a fun, energetic, happy, kind girl. She
definitely did not deserve this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:00] GRACE: A beautiful young girl killed out taking a jog not far from her own home. This is now another jogger, couple of hours away has
been found.
It`s Vanessa Marcotte. Matt, what happened? Is there a link between the two? First tell me what happened with Vanessa?
ZARRELL: OK, so Vanessa Marcotte is 27. She actually works for Google. She was visiting her mother in Princeton, Massachusetts about 60 miles west of
Boston. She was reported missing Sunday after she didn`t return home from a jog.
After a search the cops found her body in a heavily wooded area about a half mile from her mother`s home. Investigators believe the woman was
killed sometime between 1:00 p.m. that day when she left her mother`s home and 4:00 p.m.
Now, cops are not saying if there`s any connection between this case and Karina Vetrano. Right now, they`re still investigating.
GRACE: Let`s see the two pictures side by side of Karina Vetrano and Vanessa Marcotte another jogger found dead, is there a connection? Take a
look at these two, similar height and weight, similar colored hair.
Also occurs in the late afternoon we believe while out jogging not far from where they were staying. The similarity is very, very keen but are they
connected?
I want to go back on another issue not only Vanessa Marcotte now emerging as another dead female jogger but also to you Chris Spargo, reporter at
dailymail.com, what can you tell me about the psychology, the profile of this killer?
Police are now apparently looking for a random killer which means that`s harder to find a random killer that`s not attached to the victim in any way
or connected and then also means that he`s still out there.
SPARGO: That`s correct. They do think it`s a random killer at this point especially based on how Karina`s body was found. She was clutching a piece
of grass as she has been dragged off the path she was running in whether her leg is scraped up like you said she had her teeth broken like she was
fighting him back.
But it`s someone that they don`t know. They had initially thought it might have been the ex-boyfriend. He was immediately shut out, even though he was
(ph) closer. He was ruled out as a suspect. So, they really don`t know who it is at this point as fugitive.
GRACE: 1-800-577-tips.
Let`s remember American hero, Sergeant Monta Ruth, 26, Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Bronze Star Purple Heart, an outstanding student athlete. And
remembered for always being the peace keeper, mother Barbara, father Frederick, sister Nekia. Monta Ruth, American Hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. Nancy grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern. Until
then good night friend.
END
