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Nancy Grace
Dentist Mistress`s Tot Found Dead; Thousands Have Lost Homes in Louisiana Flooding; Oregon Father Googles "Father Hates Infant" Before His Son is Found Dead
Aired August 17, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A Tulsa, Oklahoma, dentist leading a double life behind the backs of his wife and four children has it
all explode when his mistress`s tot son is found dead. The love rat (ph) dentist`s secret life exposed tonight, including claims he bilked a dental
client out of $80,000.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERT FRANKLIN, DENTIST: My name is Bert Franklin from Tulsa, Oklahoma.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The dentist accused of beating his mistress`s baby to death is now also accused of taking $80,000 from his patients.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now Franklin can`t (ph) (INAUDIBLE) the list of charges he is facing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from Fast Braces Technology and YouTube.
He calls 911 to say his baby boy is not breathing, but then says he just spends 15 minutes searching on line before he even calls EMTs. The Oregon
dad Googles "father hates infant" and "afraid of abusing my baby" just before his 11-week-old son is found dead.
After a judge throws out Daddy`s Google searches, will there ever be justice the 11-week-old baby Brian (ph)? Tonight, we obtain stunning new
video of the sick dad reenacting his baby`s death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has stopped breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Little Brian was diagnosed as brain dead with injuries consistent with shaken baby syndrome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) is fine. He`s just not breathing. He has a strong pulse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could he walk free?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. A Tulsa, Oklahoma, dentist leading a double life behind the backs of his wife and four children has it all explode when his
mistress`s tot son is found dead. The love rat dentist`s secret life is now exposed. And tonight, that includes claims that he bilks a dental
client out of $80,000.
OK, before I get to the $80,000 scam, I want to go straight out to Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host. Dave, it seems as if we`ve more evidence
in the death of the tot son. Now, this tot boy, just 11 weeks old, belongs to his mistress. Now, start at the beginning and tell me what happened.
DAVE MACK, SYNDICATED TALK SHOW HOST (via telephone): Actually, the 19- month-old boy...
GRACE: Yes, thank you.
MACK: He died when he was left alone with the doctor just for a brief moment in time. The mom heard a thud. He said it was him throwing a ball
against the wall. But then later, the boy is unresponsive, and when they finally got him to the hospital, he obviously had been abused (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Oh! Terrible. Terrible. You know, Justin Freiman, I still don`t understand how the mom, the 19-month-old baby -- here he is right there.
The baby`s mom knew nothing about the wife and the four children because they`re all over Facebook. However, he may have told her he was divorced
or separated. But that`s a whole `nother can of worms.
Justin, take it from the beginning. What happened to the baby?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): OK, well, what happened is, apparently, they had come home that evening. And the mom went
upstairs to put together some furniture. She hears a thud. He blames it on tossing something to the dog and says, The baby is sleeping, don`t wake
up the baby.
GRACE: There are new developments. From what I am understanding, a part of the mistress`s video feed -- she has a security system in her home, and
part of that video feed reveals the dentist, who is very well respected in his community, getting a pizza. Little did she know he had a double life a
couple hours away with his wife and four children.
But he`s getting a piece of pizza, and you see him raring back with his foot and kicking an object. But part of what happens is obscured by a
decorative column in the home, right, Justin?
FREIMAN: They say he makes kicking motions that would show that he was possibly kicking this child in the head, but a pillar is blocking where the
child is on the floor.
GRACE: joining me right now, Marc Saltzman, technology expert. Marc, thanks for being with us. How do you actually go into your home`s video
feed and erase a portion of that tape?
MARC SALTZMAN, TECHNOLOGY EXPERT: Yes, there`s two ways to do it, and it depends on how that video was captured and shared. One way is if it`s a
DVR or a little SD card, which is similar to what`s inside of a digital camera. You would just manually delete that clip. It`s usually triggered
by sound or motion.
The other way that video is shared is over the Internet, stored in the cloud, as they call it, a free service that you would access from your
mobile phone. And if you know the password to that cloud account, you can delete it there, as well.
GRACE: To Justin Freiman. I understand that we`ve got -- now got video. Tell me about the developments in the case tonight. And I`m talking about
the death of baby Lincoln.
FREIMAN: That`s right. Well, we know now that they do have this video. Like you were saying, there`s a piece missing. They`re trying to figure
out how there is this piece missing. We also know that in asking for bond, he actually states that one of the reasons he should be allowed out is that
he has strong ties to the community. His wife of 13 years lives there in the home with his kids. The wife...
GRACE: Wa-wait, wa-wait, wa-wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! Unleash the lawyers, Kirby Clements, defense attorney, Atlanta, Alex Sanchez, defense
attorney in New York.
Alex Sanchez, let me understand this new piece of information. So this dentist, who is leading a double life, he`s got a wife with four children -
- there he is. Who`d have thunk it! And he`s got a mistress with a tot boy. The tot belongs to another man, I think a former husband.
So he says he should get bond, Alex Sanchez, because of his devotion to his wife and children?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, you want to convict this guy of being morally...
GRACE: Can you address what I said?
SANCHEZ: ... reprehensible, go ahead and convict him. But that`s not the same as being convicted, or being charged with murder. And as far as the
case with the child, what you have not mentioned...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Wait a minute!
SANCHEZ: What you have not mentioned...
GRACE: Look at your screen. Look at your screen.
SANCHEZ: I do.
GRACE: I`m going to come back to you. Look at this! No wonder he`s charged with bilking a client out of $80,000! I guarantee you that did not
go to buy cavity fillings, OK?
SANCHEZ: No, the...
GRACE: Check this crib out. I mean, whoa! OK, Sanchez, back to you.
SANCHEZ: Regarding the child`s injuries to the head, what you didn`t mention was this kid had a very cranial malfunction of the head. That`s
why the kid is wearing a helmet. And there`s a real question existing whether or not the injuries that were caused to that child occurred in some
other way because this child had a weakened head. That`s just the reality of it, Nancy, and you haven`t explored that issue.
GRACE: OK, actually, Alex, the facts show that about 48 to 72 hours before the baby was kicked in the head by this guy, according to prosecutors, the
mom was teaching him how to walk. I don`t believe he was still wearing the helmet anymore. And that helmet is now pretty common with premature
children.
SANCHEZ: Right.
GRACE: But the baby fell down three carpeted stairs. And this mom is so overprotective, she races the baby to the hospital. She didn`t even bother
calling 911. It`s apparently, Alex and Kirby, a new subdivision. It`s not even on Google.
At first, I didn`t believe that until myself and a lot of people on our staff tried to Google her address. It doesn`t come up. Instead of doing
911, she jumps in the car, races the baby to the hospital. She gets there, the baby is fine. I don`t even think he got a bruise.
So 48 hours before this incident, the baby`s perfectly fine. Then this happens, the mom hears a thud. She goes, What was that? And the dad --
the boyfriend -- the married boyfriend says, Oh, it`s me. I threw a ball to the puppy. She goes, Oh, OK. And then suddenly, the baby is in a coma.
Now, what were you saying, Sanchez?
SANCHEZ: How do we know that that child was not injured in some other way, like a fall perhaps and banged his head on the way falling down.
GRACE: You`ve got it on video, Kirby!
SANCHEZ: What are you talking about video?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You`re saying there`s a video, but two minutes ago, you said the video does not show him kicking the child!
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And you actually said the video...
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) that was my question...
CLEMENTS: ... was erased by the mother. That`s the other part here. You`ve got this super-concerned mother who you are also saying is erasing
the video...
GRACE: No, I didn`t say that.
CLEMENTS: ... of her child...
GRACE: Dave Mack said that. Hold on.
CLEMENTS: Well, and it doesn`t make any sense.
GRACE: Put them up, please. Kirby Clements, Alex Sanchez -- Justin, I asked you the same question. If video was erased, how do we have video of
him kicking the baby in the head? Go ahead, Justin.
FREIMAN: OK, so there`s video that shows him making kicking motions that the prosecutors say would be consistent with the injuries the baby has to
the head. But where the baby is on the floor at that time is blocked by a pillar. So it`s not actually within the view of the camera.
GRACE: So what we`re saying, Sanchez and Clements, before you strike up the band again, this idiot apparently erased the wrong thing.
Here`s video from Fast Braces Technology on YouTube.
So what we`ve got -- you know what? Joe Scott Morgan, certified death investigator and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University --
Joe Scott, apparently, the idiot went in and tried to erase the video, but left the portion of where he rares back with his foot. He kicks like he`s,
you know, a punter for Notre Dame, for Pete`s sake.
And then he lifts up the baby in the video, and the baby`s all limp. He`s holding the baby all limp, and he`s got a piece of pizza in the other hand.
You know, that`s where a picture says a thousand words.
But I want to hear what you have to say, Joe Scott.
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Yes, absolutely, Nancy. Yes, kind of nonchalantly, doesn`t he? This is a 19-month-old baby that
has serious health problems, in the first place. And his name is Lincoln. He`s got two -- count them -- two independent skull fractures in his
precious little head that were generated individually. It wasn`t one thump, it was probably two.
Now, how it was perpetrated, I`m not necessarily sure. But those types of injuries would require somebody with the force of a kick to have generated
them in order to fracture this area.
And then this child immediately goes limp. The brain begins to swell. He`s probably going to be in agonizing pain until he lingers on and finally
dies.
This is a horrible, horrible set of circumstances. I have no idea why this person, this stranger in this family, was in control of this child and the
mother was in the other room. It`s very disturbing on many levels, as far as I`m concerned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just shocked and floored.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dentist accused of murder is facing new charges for allegedly swindling one of his patients out of $80,000.
FRANKLIN: Contact my office to set up your free consultation. And we`ll get you started giving you a beautiful smile.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Felt like the whole office portrayed a false sense of security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Oh, yes, he`ll get you started all right. Right now, he is under - - that video, by the way, is from Fast Braces Technology on YouTube. And that is the dentist that allegedly led a double life that blows up in his
face when his mistress`s tot boy, Lincoln, just 19 months old, is found dead.
Now, here`s the reality. There is video, according to police sources -- she had video all through her home, part of her security devices -- that
shows him getting pizza out of the kitchen and rearing back with his foot, his right foot, we believe, and kicking the baby with magnum force, then
picking the baby up. The baby is limp.
Now, you never see in the video what his foot connects with because there`s a decorative column right there, obscuring what he kicks. But after the
kick, he leans down and picks up the baby, and the baby is just limp.
And then an hour or so later, he says to the girlfriend, his mistress, Hey, does the baby normally sleep with his eyes wide open? And the mom looks
over, freaks out. The baby, of course, has gone into a coma, little Lincoln.
Tonight, we learn, Justin Freiman, that he`s also accused of bilking a client out of 80 ground? Who would fork over $80,000 -- I mean, when you
see the inside of his home, I know why he needs it. He`s keeping two women up and two families up. I don`t know if either of the women work.
But how do you get 80 grand out of a dental client?
FREIMAN: Well, Nancy, not willingly, they didn`t give it to him. I can tell you, according to prosecutors, he actually calls a long-time patient
who, by the way, has kids and says, I need $15,000. I need to borrow it to get new dental equipment.
She says no. He finally convinces her. He gives him her American Express number. And then he says he`s just going to make the $15,000 charge to his
business. A month later, she checks her statement. He made three charges totaling $80,000.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, what, wait. What were the charges specifically, Justin? Ouch!
FREIMAN: Yes, there was a $30,000 charge, a $20,000 charge and then another $30,000 charge. And when investigations asked people who work at
the dentist`s office, Was any new equipment bought, the answer was no.
GRACE: OK, Caryn Stark, psychologist, whether the wife knew about the mistress or vice versa is a whole `nother can of worms. But it seems like
his pattern is just scamming one woman after the next.
I mean, can you imagine -- I mean, the women lived, you know, an hour or so apart. The mistress says she did not know about the wife and the children.
Sometimes, I think you just choose not to know.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think there`s no doubt that they choose not to know, Nancy, because there`s a suspicion that women usually have
when the person they`re with is involved with someone else. And if you don`t want to leave the relationship, then you don`t follow up on your
instincts. But usually, we have instincts.
Also, this nefarious character is somebody who was already fined in his dental practice because he was sedating his patients without a license and
allowed somebody to work in his office who didn`t have a license. He is really not of good character.
GRACE: You know, speaking of character, Justin Freiman, what do we know about alleged threats he made on the mistress`s former husband, the bio dad
of the little baby, Lincoln?
FREIMAN: That`s right. They say that after this incident, he actually texts him, threatening his life, as well as others.
GRACE: But what specifically did he say he was going to do?
FREIMAN: He threatened to kill the bio dad. He said skin him -- (AUDIO GAP)
GRACE: Skin him?
FREIMAN: Yes.
GRACE: Skin him in Bricktown and cut his penis off. Whoa, wait, wait! Unleash the lawyers, Kirby Clements and Alex Sanchez. Can I see their
faces?
Did you see the text that is coming from the mild-mannered dentist`s phone? You know, I`m going to go to you, Kirby. How would you like it if you got
a threat on your phone that somebody was going to skin you and cut your penis off? Think about it, gentlemen.
CLEMENTS: I don`t know if I`d like it too much, but...
GRACE: And this is from his phone.
CLEMENTS: It`s from his phone, but you know, Nancy, I think at this time, a lot was going on...
GRACE: So look me in the eyes, Kirby!
CLEMENTS: I`m looking in the eye.
GRACE: Don`t look down!
CLEMENTS: It does not prove that this man committed a murder. It doesn`t prove that this man bilked this woman out of $30,000 or $80,000.
GRACE: 80! 80,000!
CLEMENTS: All this proves is that two men were fighting over the same woman, at best.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Signature Smiles shut down amid a multi-layered investigation into allegations of dental malpractice and embezzlement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you have anything to do with the death of an infant? Anything at all? Now`s your chance if you want to say anything.
FRANKLIN: I can also pass those savings on to you, which allows a lot of people to afford a beautiful smile.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from Fast Braces Technology on YouTube.
Unleash the lawyers, Alex Sanchez and Kirby Clements. And joining me -- you know, Kirby, I was just -- can I see the lawyers, please? There you
go.
Kirby, I was just talking to you about the threat from his phone about skinning his mistress`s ex alive and cutting off his penis.
I`d like to see the lawyers!
That`s actually part of the arrest warrant affidavit. Did you notice, Kirby -- and Sanchez, don`t get calmed down and lulled into complacency
sitting there. You`re next.
Kirby, did you notice, when they came up to him and said, Did you have anything to do with the death of this baby, he just looked down. It made
me think of it because that`s what you did when I asked about the cutting off of the penis thing. He just looked down.
If somebody asked me, Hey, did you have anything to do with this, I would say, No, I did not have anything to do with this!
CLEMENTS: But the police...
GRACE: This is wrong. He just looked down. He didn`t even say anything!
CLEMENTS: They caught him -- they do that to catch you by surprise. There`s no real right answer you can give.
GRACE: They do it to catch you by surprise...
CLEMENTS: There`s no right answer.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yes, there is a right answer! The right answer is, No, I did not do this! How about that for an answer?
CLEMENTS: He`d still be on this show, and you`d still be saying he did do it. So it`s not the right answer for you, Nancy. All he could do is look
down at that point...
GRACE: It would help.
CLEMENTS: ... and say, I can`t believe this is happening to me. That`s what he was thinking, I can`t believe this is happening to me.
GRACE: Oh, me, me, me, me, me! Alex Sanchez, you agree, all he`s thinking about, This is happening to me? Forget about baby Lincoln, it`s all about
me, me, me, me, me!
SANCHEZ: You know, first of all, he probably consulted with an attorney. Somebody like Kirby said, Whatever you do, don`t say anything one way or
another.
GRACE: Somebody like you.
SANCHEZ: And he`s probably decided not to make any statements. Regarding that text message, if his girlfriend or his girlfriend`s mother, whoever
that message was sent to, thought it was serious, don`t you think she would have said, Hey, listen, I don`t want to have anything to do with you? She
knew he was just blowing off steam! That wasn`t a serious message.
GRACE: Hold on. Wait a minute. Dave Mack, what was the penis text? Who was that sent to?
CLEMENTS: It was sent to the biological father of Lincoln. It was the ex- husband. That`s who it was sent to.
GRACE: Now, isn`t it true, Justin, that the woman, the mistress, gets a TRO against him? They are taking it seriously, in response to Alex
Sanchez`s question.
FREIMAN: That`s right. She does go and get that. So she took things pretty serious.
GRACE: You know, back to Marc Saltzman, technology expert joining us tonight. Marc, you would have to get his phone and delete that. Now, are
they actually suggesting that somebody else wrote the text? I mean, couldn`t you look at all the texts surrounding the text and see if it makes
sense and in that space of time? Like, he`s writing -- you know, he`s paying his electricity bill and he`s doing this and he`s writing his
secretary, and then there`s this text, I`m going to cut off your penis.
Can`t you kind of look at the progression of texts and tell whether it`s a viable theory, if somebody snuck in and got your phone and texted and then
got away?
SALTZMAN: Yes, I think that`s a pretty tough argument, and just like it`s highly suspect that only a piece of that video footage was deleted. If
only one part of an ongoing text message conversation was deleted, that`s also very suspicious. So -- and if there`s -- you know, you can`t prove if
he actually typed it or not, but if you all put the pieces together, I think the prosecutor has a pretty strong case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Crime victim-turned-crime fighter Hailey Dean is back in "Murder in the Courthouse."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The unstoppable prosecutor digs in to track down a killer, but could she wind up the next victim? Find out in the third book
in Nancy`s best-selling series.
GRACE: Portions of proceeds go to help find missing children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pre-order your copy now on Amazon, barnesandnobles.com, and more.
GRACE: My proceeds to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, go to murderinthecourthouse.com. Amazon books` Books-A-Million
pre-orders come with an autographed manuscript page from "Murder in the Courthouse".
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Could she wind up the next victim? Find out in the third book in Nancy`s best selling series.
Portions of proceeds go to help find missing children.
Pre-order your copy now on Amazon, barnes&noble.com and more.
Live proceeds to missing and exploited children go to murder in the courthouse. Pre-orders come with an autographed manuscript page from order
in the courthouse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: He calls 911 to say his baby boy is not breathing. But then says he just spent 15 minutes searching online before he even calls EMTs. The
Oregon father Googles `father hates infant` and `afraid of abusing my baby` just before his 11-week-old son is found dead.
Now, a judge throws out daddy`s Google searches. Will there ever be justice for the 11-week-old baby Bryan? And tonight, we obtain stunning new video
of the sick dad re-enacting his baby`s death but first, listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KALIQ MANSOR, CONVICTED OF KILLING HIS 11-MONTH-OLD BABY: I have an 11- week-old infant and he has stopped breathing. I`ve started to give him breaths through CPR. He has a pulse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to first let you hear what he was saying in police interrogation. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANSOR: I started to kind of worry maybe his head might not be supported. I turned back over and he still really hadn`t changed much. I started shaking
him a little bit to see if I could get him to respond. You know, holding him by the -- by the chest and shoulders, kind of -- kind of shaking him to
get him to respond, you know, side to side and back and forth. I mean, he hadn`t changed at all and from when I noticed that, you know, when I took
him into the bathroom the first time he was not really doing much. I mean, he was pretty limp and so at that point, I, you know, really started to
look at him. His eyes seemed like they were, you know, I used fixed, but the doctor said that wasn`t right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How strong of an emotion was that when you were swinging him? Was it real significant or was it kind of a light little swing? I mean
...
MANSOR: It sounds like, from what the doctor said, it was probably stronger than I should have. But, I mean, I -- you know, I mean, it`s trying to get
the fluid out and some was coming out earlier so I was doing it harder, you know, with more and more significant motion trying to get whatever it
seemed that he was struggling against out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he hit his head on anything at any point?
MANSOR: Not that I noticed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
MANSOR: I mean, at this point, I mean, I`m starting to get scared. I don`t know. I don`t think he did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
MANSOR: I mean, but it`s a bathroom. It`s not a big bathroom. I don`t think he hit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I don`t think he hit his head on the bathtub? Wouldn`t you know that? To Craig Fronek, host of "Sunrise With Craig" on KCMX.
Craig, thank you for being with us. I understand that the video that we have obtained of this dad re-enacting what he did with his baby, is pretty
damming. But what can you tell us about his Google searches?
CRAIG FRONEK, "SUNRISE WITH CRAIG" NEWS RADIO 880 KCMX HOST: Hi, Nancy, thanks for having me. This man is a liar. The forensic evidence that the
detective served the warrant for within 22 days and 55 days, they had Google searches of infant abuse, infant abuse symptoms, signs of newborn
abuse. You know, this can therapy help an abuser? This man is clearly lying and the forensic evidence shows it.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at the re-enact video that we have obtained. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANSOR: I did -- I forgot, I did shake him some. I did kind of try to give him a shake because he -- like, when I moved him like this, I could hear
him, you know, he would gasp, so I tried to shake and he would gasp once or twice, so I kind of grabbed him and like, you know, Bryan, Bryan, you know,
trying to get him. And I did that there. I came back in here after I looked at the computer and kind of did it once or twice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then when you were in the bathroom, can you try to (ph) about the shaking part that you described to us back there (ph), you
were mentioning that it was back and forth and side-to-side?
MANSOR: Yeah, I ...
(CROSSTALK)
MANSOR: I did ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah?
MANSOR: ... try to -- I mean it started, you know, because he would gasp if I moved him. And when I picked him up, he kind of do this gasp again. But I
wasn`t sure if maybe he was just kind of, like, waiting to kind of catch his breath and do it again, and that`s when I started shaking and, you
know, just this way and that trying to get him to -- to continue ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that was ...
(CROSSTALK)
MANSOR: ... gasping.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... before you came in here?
MANSOR: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you didn`t lay him on the bed, you laid him directly on the changing table?
MANSOR: There was a mattress there, but -- to do CPR, they say solid surface.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANSOR: Would the bruising be from shaking him? I mean is that the kind of -- no, for his ribs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He doesn`t necessarily have any bruise on the ribs.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s way up here, near his throat.
MANSOR: Could that ...
(CROSSTALK)
MANSOR: ... have been it like my thumbs were there or something, or thumb or ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. You know, he`s got bruising on his ears, he`s got bruising on his forehead, bruising under his neck. This is just
what we`re being told and we saw him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I mean, you could see the bruising on the baby`s face. I never, ever, and the twins are now eight, recall bruising on their necks, ever.
Michael Christian, what can you tell me? When they did the search on the dad`s computer and his cell phone, etc., what can you tell me about a game
called Candy Van?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It`s a game, Nancy. We have seen it. Let me tell you how it`s described in court papers.
It`s described as "the protagonist drives around in a van or bus or ice cream truck, picks up 10 children and abuses them physically and/or
sexually while trying to avoid attention and the police." And it also says in one action, a player may take, "you throw the kid to the ground and kick
until there`s a pool of blood on the floor."
GRACE: And this was on his, what, computer?
CHRISTIAN: Yes, his home computer.
GRACE: OK, say -- say again what you just said about the pool of blood. What? That`s on the game that was on his laptop?
CHRISTAIN: Home computer. Again, it`s called Candy Van, and according to court documents, it says "in one action a player may take, you throw the
kid to the ground and kick until there`s a pool of blood on the floor."
GRACE: What else, Michael, is in -- the video game Candy Van, what else did you see?
CHRISTIAN: I personally haven`t seen it but this is descriptions from court documents.
GRACE: Yes.
CHRISTIAN: "The protagonist drives around in his van, picks up children and abuses them, physically and/or sexually while trying to avoid detection and
the police."
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Alex Sanchez, I want to hear your response. How can you or any defense lawyer defend having a game like that on your home
computer or laptop?
SANCHEZ: You know, Nancy, we are a nation of laws. And -- but for the Google search information that have come up on that laptop, I don`t think
he would have been convicted of any crime. It`s only because they admitted that evidence in there, but the fact of the matter is a court determined
that the prosecutor improperly obtained a search warrant for that computer.
GRACE: I want to talk ...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... about -- you are right, that is what the judge said. And I disagree with the judge. Just because a judge says something, that means --
that doesn`t mean anything to me.
That judge has a law degree just like the three of us. The only difference between us three and that judge is that we have been out practicing law. We
have been in the trenches. That judge has been in an ivory tower, God only knows how many years.
To a special guest, Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert. Ben, explain the type of forensic exam that was done on the defendant`s computers to dig
up Candy Van.
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Nancy, this doesn`t take much. I`m wondering if this is even a search because this could be obvious on the
desktop. When -- when you`re looking at the computer, you could see the game Candy Van - Candy Van there. You could see the search history without
even doing a forensic, Nancy. Anybody can go to their computer, look at the browse in history.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVITAN: That`s not necessarily a search.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That`s not really even a search. So, Michael, I want you to give it your -- Michael Christian, give it your best, in a nutshell, that means
tiny, why did this judge throw out the Google search?
CHRISTIAN: It actually was a three-panel judge, Nancy ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Why?
CHRISTIAN: ... in this court because they said that the -- it should have been thrown out because it was over broad. That the search warrant didn`t
really include of all these things. That it should have been a much more specific tiny period of time, like 15 maybe minutes, before the cops got
there when supposedly this guy was searching the internet ...
(CROSSTALK)
CHRISTIAN: ... because of his baby.
GRACE: That is ridiculous. Police always go and look at your computer and your cell phone. I mean, Ben Levitan, you have worked on hundreds of cases
where there are search warrants for the entire history on a phone. That`s not thrown out.
LEVITAN: You cannot do a 15-minute search of a cell phone. This is like backing up your computer, Nancy. You just cannot do that. I am asked often
to do a forensic search of a phone and then only to turn over certain parts, such as text messages or such as photographs. But, even in this 15-
minute search, Nancy, this -- this would show enough to justify turning over the entire file.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Awful.
LEVITAN: I just don`t understand it.
GRACE: Awful. And you know, Karen Stark, psychologist, joining me out of New York. The defense will argue that there is no nexus, no legal
connection between these searches and this dead baby. That is B.S. That is B.S., Karen.
I mean -- I mean, the searches were so specific, like the Oregon Child Abuse Statute. What if I beat my baby? Let`s see a full screen of all the
searches that we know of that he did. Weigh in, Karen.
STARK: I`ll tell you, Nancy. There is no way that those searches don`t lead to what happened. You have to be able to see that. He is looking for the
symptoms, which is of child abuse and shaken baby syndrome.
And what`s amazing is during that testimony, having known those symptoms, he is still describing that he shook the baby. And you don`t see any
remorse in him, no tears. This is a child that was abused and it looks he`s abused previously.
GRACE: And not only that, the twin brother of baby Bryan also, also had injuries. OK, listen to the re-enact.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many different times do you think you swung him over the tub? Did you do, like, swinging him over the tub, take a look at him
and swing him some more?
MANSOR: Yeah. I mean, I -- it was a few good swings, maybe four good swings. I tried, like I said, I tried holding him higher up on the body
where he had more support, but to me it didn`t feel like I was getting enough of a -- I`m trying to get his -- whatever fluids in his lungs, I`m
trying to get that up.
And I think that holding him, you know, higher up on his body wasn`t working too much, so I started moving my grip lower, kind of towards his
hips and -- and at one point I think I was even on his -- on his legs. Still hands on his hips mostly, trying to get good swing. And I think I was
kind of doing it like this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANSOR: Yeah. He`s usually kind of a pig, and the last few days he`s kind of slowed down a little bit. But yeah, so it didn`t seem any slower than he
had been in the last couple of days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: After a judge throws out this father`s Google searches where he looked up `afraid of abusing my baby`, `child abuse laws` and much, much
worse, will there ever be justice for baby Bryan?
Joe Scott Morgan, certified death investigator and professor of forensics in Jacksonville State University, Joe Scott, what did you make of the
injuries on this child?
MORGAN: Nancy, this is not a one-moment kind of thing. He keeps talking about how the child had labored breathing and respiratory problems.
What this indicates to me is that this child may have been in congestive failure, and you can get into congestive failure because you have a head
injury.
I think that the shaken baby has taken a -- probably displaced (ph) prior to the respiratory failure. The lungs begin to back up, the head -- the
brain is swelling and the child has no relief.
Also, the primal brain is being compromised so he`s having a difficult time respiring. Also, he`s got -- he`s got retinal hemorrhages which means that
even if the child had survived, the child probably would have wound up blind, more than likely, bilaterally.
This is a horrible, horrible case. And the fact that this other child is still alive, is a miracle in and of itself. Of course, I can`t attest to
what the quality of life this other child is going to have, but this guy shook this baby, you can not get these kinds of injuries without forcefully
shaking the baby back and forth.
Just gently swinging the baby is not going to generate this kind of intracranial trauma that you have. This child is shaken back and forth.
Remember, our brain is just seated in the skull and it kind of rocks back and forth. We refer to these injuries as coup and countrecoup injuries
where the -- the brain is bouncing back and forth off the skull. This little angel`s brain is bouncing back and forth, the vessels are getting
torn and he`s hemorrhaging into the space, and the brain is essentially strangulating.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Kirby Clements and Alex Sanchez. OK, Kirby, I just would like to hear -- I mean, you have prosecuted and defended shaken
baby syndrome cases. The mother was not at home when this happened. What`s your defense here?
CLEMENTS: In this instance, the defense, first of all, we`re going to keep out that -- those internet searches. That`s the first thing.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No, I don`t know about that. But go ahead.
CLEMENTS: I think the best defense that you`re probably going to have, given the nature of these injuries, is going to be accident. And that is
that ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: An accident?
CLEMENTS: Accident go with -- go with lack of intent and try -- and really you try to negotiate this. Honestly, we try to negotiate a plea to
something lesser.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, how could you possibly argue accident, Alex?
SANCHEZ: Let me -- let me just do this, Nancy, and this is different. I`m going to give some advice to the prosecution. If they try this case again,
don`t put that tape into evidence. Because if you do, if you put that tape into evidence, you`re providing the jury with their defense. Let him force
him to testify then you impeach him with the improperly obtained evidence from the computer.
GRACE: I`m sure -- I`m sure they appreciate that, Alex Sanchez.
Let`s stop and remember American hero Lance Corporal Evenor Herrera, 22, Gypsum, Colorado. National Defense Service medal, loved fishing,
snowboarding, soccer. Mother, Blanca; brother, Balmore; two sisters. Evenor Herrera, American hero.
And tonight, prayers to those suffering from recent flooding in Louisiana. Thousands have lost their home, many, many in shelters, some lost their
lives. To help victims of Louisiana flooding, go to cnn.com/impact.
Thanks to our guests for being with us, but mostly to you. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern, and
until then, good night, friend.
END
