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Nancy Grace
Mom`s Boyfriend Charged in Tot`s Murder; Florida State Student Stabs Couple; Eats Man`s Face; Did Alexandra Duval Intentionally Kill her Twin Sister?
Aired August 18, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We do begin tonight with breaking news. To Gaston County, North Carolina, a beautiful little 3-year-old, Jordyn
Dumont, vanishes from her own home. Her mother`s boyfriend says he puts the little girl down for a nap. He naps himself. But when he wakes up,
Jordyn is gone, and the front door is wide open.
Well, after a frantic search, authorities discover the tiny body, and yes, it is Jordyn Dumont that`s in the woods. It`s near the home, and she`s
wrapped in a sheet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Gaston County 911. (INAUDIBLE) the address and the emergency.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am. My oldest daughter -- I was taking a nap. I just woke up, and I can`t find her anywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say Jordyn Dumont`s body was placed in an area where it could not easily be seen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me why. Tell me how you could do it to a 3- year-old innocent child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: And live to Jupiter, Florida, 19-year-old Florida State University student Austin Harrouff is having dinner with his family and
friends when he suddenly just walks off. Forty-five minutes later, deputies come upon Harrouff eating the face of John Stevens after beating
and stabbing the man and his wife to death in their garage. What caused this grisly rampage?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Young man beating up a woman, then stabbed in the back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives say he stabbed them both dozens of times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Making animal-like sounds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then began to chew.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Savagely biting the man`s face.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we got units en route, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Did 37-year-old yoga expert Alexandria Duval (ph) intentionally drive her beautiful identical twin sister off of a 200-foot cliff, plunging
the Ford Explorer onto a rocky shore? Outrage after a judge orders her released and drops the charges. Now, in the last hours, yoga twin busted
again, this time driving drunk.
Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.
To Gaston County, North Carolina. A beautiful little 3-year-old, Jordyn Dumont -- she vanishes from her own home. Her mother`s boyfriend says he
puts the little girl down for a nap, and he naps himself. But when he wakes up, Jordyn`s gone and the front door is wide open. Well, after a
frantic search, authorities discover the tiny body. Yes, it`s Jordyn Dumont. It`s in the woods. It`s near the home, wrapped in a sheet. We
want answers.
Let`s go straight out to Joe Marusak. He is the reporter for "The Charlotte Observer." Joe, where was this body of this beautiful little
girl actually found?
JOE MARUSAK, "CHARLOTTE OBSERVER" (via telephone): Jean, police found her body in some woods about 500 yards to 750 yards from the home, somewhere in
that.
CASAREZ: OK, Joe. So it`s not that far away. It`s walking distance...
MARUSAK: It`s close. Yes, it`s close.
CASAREZ: ... from home. Joe, what -- how was she found?
MARUSAK: She was wrapped in a sheet and on the ground in some woods.
CASAREZ: So she was fully exposed.
MARUSAK: Not fully exposed, no.
CASAREZ: Meaning not in a grave. Nothing was dug because didn`t...
MARUSAK: That`s right.
CASAREZ: Didn`t a volunteer say that they thought they saw some fresh dirt, fresh earth?
MARUSAK: All we`ve been told by the authorities is she was partially concealed but wrapped in a sheet. What partially conceals means, I`d love
to know.
CASAREZ: All right. Right. Good point. Good point. Now, Joe, is there cause of death yet?
MARUSAK: The reports now are blunt force trauma.
CASAREZ: Blunt force trauma. That is very, very serious. It`s obviously a cause of death that can create first degree murder charges.
Let`s go to Dave Priest. He is the morning show host at WRNN. What can you tell me, in addition to what Joe just said, about the circumstances
surrounding this little girl`s body?
DAVE PRIEST, WRNN (via telephone): Well, what Joe had to say was absolutely on target. According to the DA`s office, they said there was no
blood on Jordyn`s body. So that would be consistent with a blunt force trauma, although the DA didn`t say whether or not he saw any injuries on
the girl`s body when it was found partially concealed there in the woods.
CASAREZ: Let`s go to Dr. Lee Norman. He is the chief medical officer from the University of Kansas Hospital. Doctor, I just want to get a definition
of blunt force trauma. I mean, we know what it is. We`ve heard it in countless trials. But is it true that there`s never blood with blunt force
trauma?
DR. LEE NORMAN, UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS HOSPITAL: Well, there can be bleeding because a blunt force can disrupt the skin and cause bleeding that way.
It`s probably either to the head, the chest or the abdomen, most likely the head.
CASAREZ: And with an instrument of some type, right? But I guess -- does it have to be an instrument? Can it be a hand?
NORMAN: It could be a fist from a very strong person. Sure. It`s more likely some kind of an instrument, but it could be a strong fist blow.
CASAREZ: All right, Michael Christian, I want to go back to the beginning here because when we did this story earlier this week, this was a missing
little girl. She was just gone from her home, a beautiful little girl.
How did we get to the part where her body is found walking distance from the home?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, what happened, Jean, is the defendant in this case, Billy McCullen, he said that he put this little
girl down, his stepdaughter, for a nap at about 1:00 on Monday afternoon. He also went down for nap at the same time.
He said he woke up around 3:30 and she was gone. He found the front door to the home open and she was gone. So he called 911, reported her missing,
and they searched for her, volunteers and experts, through the night, through the rest of that afternoon, the next morning. And sadly, late that
next morning is when they found her body.
CASAREZ: You know, Michael, we`ve got that 911 call now. And it is from William Billy Joseph McCullen, the caregiver, the boyfriend of the mother.
Listen to the emotion in that call that he makes to authorities.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Gaston County 911, Reynolds (ph). What`s the address of the emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am, my oldest daughter -- I was taking a nap. I just woke up, and I can`t find her anywhere. I went to the neighbors,
and they`re not home, and I don`t know where she`s at.
911 OPERATOR: How old is she?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s about to be 4 next month. I have a newborn with me, took, a 1-year-old. And I`ve got her and I can`t find the other one.
I really need some help right now.
911 OPERATOR: Have you looked under the beds and in the closets?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma`am. I called her name, though. I can`t find her anywhere. I went next door. I`ve been calling her name outside. I can`t
find her.
911 OPERATOR: She may have fallen asleep. I need you to go look under the beds (INAUDIBLE) OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am. Yes, ma`am.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CASAREZ: All right, to defense attorney Danny Cevallos. You know, Danny, two hours after they found this body of this little girl, they had him
charged with first degree murder. So in two hours, how fast can they find evidence that points directly toward him?
DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I hope they have something. So far, all they have is he fell asleep and the child vanished. They must have
something else because, as we learned from Casey Anthony, it`s not enough that you are -- you`re not the absolute guarantor of your child`s safety.
There is the possibility that some third party out there may have been involved.
And I`m just not seeing any direct nexus between the boyfriend and this horrible crime. So until they show some kind of evidence -- maybe they`re
keeping it quiet for now. They must have some reason to have charged him for murder. But as it stands at this moment, the evidence against him is
very, very limited. And if he`s charged just based on what we know right now, I would not be surprised if he`s acquitted.
CASAREZ: Randy Kessler, you`re also a defense attorney. Now, they`re saying that they believe that the time of her death was 12 to 36 hours
before she was found. She was found on Tuesday at about 11:00 AM. That would take us well into the morning of Monday. Many people could have been
around that little girl from 12 to 36 hours before.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree. And defense counsel can have a lot to work with. But there`s got to be evidence that they`re not sharing.
There`s no way you arrest somebody for murder just based on the fact that he woke up, says he can`t find the child, and the child`s found.
There`s something there. Do we know anything else about it? Was it an accident and then a cover-up? Was it an intentional act? Were there other
people involved? Maybe they`re keeping it secret to see what else happens so that if they cross-examine somebody or ask somebody else what happened
and they get somebody to volunteer information that they have privately, then it`s corroborated. They`re not going to release a lot more until they
get somebody else, until they tell us why they think it`s murder.
CASAREZ: Joe Marusak, you`re right there in North Carolina. And Randy`s exactly right. I mean, to arrest someone and charge them with such a
serious crime in such a short period of time, they must have evidence that they believe beyond a reasonable doubt they can prove to a jury that this
man committed this murder. What are you hearing there in North Carolina?
MARUSAK: Well, they must because it`s first degree murder. It`s not manslaughter. It`s not a lesser degree. So obviously, they have evidence
that points to (INAUDIBLE) such gravity. And they wouldn`t be charging him with it. And -- but at the same time, they`re not letting any of us know.
CASAREZ: Well, Michael Christian, we do know, Michael, a little of the history of this couple, right? And this little girl -- this was her
"stepfather," quote, unquote. Her mother was away at work, we believe at the time, so he was only around her.
But what did neighbors say about prior abuse, they could year helling and screaming?
CHRISTIAN: We know, Jean, that at least 16 times since this couple moved into this home -- that`s maybe the last year or so -- cops have been called
to that scene. Neighbors have heard screaming. They have described what they called things that sound like they might be physical abuse. Theft --
I think there was one theft call, definitely things that would upset you if you were a neighbor to hear going on next door.
CASAREZ: And Michael, we`ve got with us right now one of those earwitnesses that actually heard, they say, what was going on in the home.
Cory Connard is with us. Thank you so much for joining us. And I can imagine the shock that you were in and knowing what you heard. And I don`t
know if you ever saw anything, but just describe for us what you believe conditions were that were going on in that home. Cory...
CORY CONNARD, NEIGHBOR OF SUSPECT (via telephone): Yes.
CASAREZ: ... can you hear me?
CONNARD: Hello (INAUDIBLE)
CASAREZ: Yes. Cory, tell us what you heard or saw in the home where Jordyn Dumont was living.
CONNARD: Well, I heard a lot of violence, like just hitting stuff, a lot of yelling and cussing. And I know for a fact that they tried to get out
of the house, and he wouldn`t let them and stuff like that.
CASAREZ: Did you ever see any physical injuries to Jordyn at all on her body?
CONNARD: No, I really didn`t go up there or get close to them or anything like that.
CASAREZ: What about calling the police? I believe neighbors did call the police because in addition to you, other people saw things.
CONNARD: My mom, she had called the police a couple of times over that stuff. And they had come out, and she just told them that everything is
fine and they just left.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please come out! I don`t know if she`s just hiding or what. I don`t know! I can`t find her anywhere. (INAUDIBLE) The door was
wide open, and I can`t find her!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Gaston County police say Jordyn was never lost. They say McCullen murdered the toddler and hid her body hundreds of yards
into the woods.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Called officers time and time again to come to the house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) and you could hear her screaming through the house, you know, Stop, stop, Billy. You know, Don`t hit me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. That 911 call that you`re hearing of a man almost sobbing -- well, that is the man, the boyfriend
that`s now been charged with first degree murder in the death of the 3- year-old, Joshlyn (sic) Dumont.
And joining us right now is the next-door neighbor that heard things, knew that abuse was going on, allegedly, in that home. And Cory Connard, you
are with us from North Carolina right now. Your own sister says she saw something that happened to little Joshlyn (sic). When did she see this
happen to her?
CONNARD: It happened a couple weeks ago and maybe a month ago.
CASAREZ: What did your sister say she saw happen to Jordyn?
CONNARD: Well, the little girl was sitting on the porch, and she was just crying. Don`t know what she was crying over. And he had just smacked her
in the chest, and she had fell off the porch.
CASAREZ: And she fell off the porch. What happened after that?
CONNARD: And then the mama picked her up and they went in the house.
CASAREZ: And I heard that possibly she was picked up only with one arm, and then taken into the house.
CONNARD: Yes.
CASAREZ: Bethany Marshall, you`re a psychoanalyst. You cover this all the time. This death didn`t have to happen. Neighbors saw things. Neighbors
heard things. They called police. Police may have gone out to the house, but they say everything`s fine.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, I think what happens in these cases is that the mother colludes in the abuse against the child. This poor
child was probably brutalized. And Jean, there`s a 1-year-old in that house, too, let`s not forget.
But it sounds like the mother allowed this little girl to be brutalized by the father. When the mother felt endangered, she would call 911, call the
police. But then when the police came, she would be afraid to press charges or refuse to press charges. The police did not press further to
find out what was happening in this household, and they left.
And one of the reasons that neighbors fail to step forward, although I think in this case many neighbors did, is that they`re often afraid that
they`re imagining it. They`re afraid of getting into trouble. They`re afraid of separating the child from the parent needlessly.
I mean, child abuse is vastly underreported. And what I want the public to know is you don`t have to know whether a child is being abused. All you
have to report is suspicion of abuse. It`s the police and social workers` job to investigate, not yours. If you think a child is being brutalized or
abused in any way, report it.
But I think, sadly, this 3-year-old had a very, very difficult life in that house of horrors. Jean, I wouldn`t even leave a potted plant with this
family, it sounds so terrible.
CASAREZ: And Michael Christian, I mean, when see -- when we learn what neighbors heard or saw -- they called police. Many of them called police.
So they did their duty. They saw something, they said something. And what about the biological father of Jordyn? He lived in another state, but
didn`t even he call authorities from another state? And that was child protective services.
CHRISTIAN: Yes, that`s right, Jean. He lives in Illinois, up near Chicago. So he`s quite a ways away from North Carolina. North Carolina
authorities called him right away when Jordyn went missing.
So he was actually driving from Illinois down to North Carolina to be there to see what he could do to help when he got the call that his daughter was,
indeed, dead.
Now, he says that he did -- he was worried about her welfare, and that he claims at least I think two separate occasions, he called child protective
services, and they told him everything was OK.
CASAREZ: We hear that over and over and over again.
I want to go to defense attorney Sam Vanamay (ph), who is joining us out of Miami, Florida. You know, this man has been charged with first degree
murder. Prosecutors are saying at this short period of time, they do not think they will be seeking the death penalty. Usually, that comes farther
down the line.
What does that tell you about the evidence they have that they can say right now, We don`t believe we`re going to seek death?
SAM VANAMAY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, thank you for having me on your show. They don`t need to seek death right away. That`s something
that can happen later on in the process.
So the fact that they`ve charged this guy in such a quick, expeditious fashion leads me to believe that they`ve got -- you know, they`ve got some
evidence that`s going to link him not just to the location, because he did that with that 911 call, but to the murder (INAUDIBLE) you know, to the
murder itself, or there`s forensic evidence linking him to this horrific act.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: McCullen reported to police his girlfriend`s daughter disappeared while he was taking a nap.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was taking a nap. I just woke up, and I can`t find her anywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was sitting on the front porch, and Jordyn and Billy was outside, and she was crying and he hit her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is sick to my stomach, you know, a situation like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. Just a horrible, horrible story. Dave Priest, you are the co-host of WRNN. You`ve been following
this from the beginning. What do we know about this man that`s been charged? What did he do for a living? Why was he at home that afternoon?
PRIEST: Don`t know exactly why he was at home that afternoon, but we do know that he does have a little bit of a history with the police.
Obviously, he was there as the caretaker, even though he was not specifically married to the little girl`s mom, Jayleen (ph), and referred
to her as his wife and referred to Jordyn as his daughter. So I don`t know if he was acting as a house husband or what he was doing.
CASAREZ: You know, Michael Christian, we have learned that he was in construction around the country. And the home that they lived in was
actually his family`s home. But it had had a lot of tragedy in it, right?
CHRISTIAN: That`s right, Jean. It was the home that he grew up in, Mr. McCullen, but apparently, about four years ago, he had a sister who lived
there who had a young son die of SIDS, crib death. And then about three years ago, his own father died in that house. So it`s got to be a place
with a lot of unhappy memories.
CASAREZ: And now that house, they collecting evidence, I`m sure.
To Dr. Lee Norman, you are a forensic medical examiner. What is important at this point? They charged him within two hours of finding this little
girl`s body wrapped in a dark sheet. My guess is that sheet just came from the home linen closet. But what are they processing the home for now?
What`s important in this investigation?
NORMAN: Well, one of the principles is called the exchange principle. Any time anybody comes onto a scene, they leave evidence. Something is left
behind. Any time something changes (ph) in there, there`s micro-evidence left behind. So they`ll be going over it with a fine-toothed comb, looking
for places -- for example, maybe the child`s head got slammed up against a railing or something like that. It`ll be micro-evidence they`ll be
focusing on.
CASAREZ: And if you are performing the autopsy, you`re going to look for hairs and fibers on the body that are associated with an individual. But
the challenge is, she lives in the home with these people. So you know, that can go either way.
NORMAN: Yes, there would be cross-contamination because of that. But also remember, there could be something on him that was a bruise or an injury to
himself if he injured this child. There could be something in the environment that was brought back by him that puts him at the scene where
the child was left in the sheet.
CASAREZ: Danny Cevallos, I think probably charging so quickly, the main thing you`re going to want to do is try to mitigate this down in some form
or fashion. They say they`re not seeking death, so that`s going to be a relief to you. What else do you think that you`d be looking for to try to
get this down from first degree murder to something else?
CEVALLOS: Well, I wouldn`t even be thinking about mitigating or negotiating any plea at this point. Number one, first and foremost, I want
to know what the police and law enforcement have in their discovery file because as it stands right now, if all their case is, is child disappears
plus this is a house where there have been reports of a lot of commotion in the past, that does not equal guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
However, the fact that he`s been arrested and not charged with assault, not charged with negligent type crimes but charged with murder, the most
serious of all crimes, leads me to believe that the police know something that we all do not.
But as it stands, my initial move would not be to even consider negotiating a plea until I see what, if anything, police and law enforcement have in
their discovery binder.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: Live to Jupiter, Florida. A 19-year-old Florida State University student, Austin Harrouff, is having dinner with his family and his friends
when he suddenly walks off.
Just 45 minutes later, deputies come upon Harrouff eating the face of John Stevens after beating and stabbing the man and his wife to death in their
garage. What caused this grizzly rampage?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF FISHER, A STEVENSES` NEIGHBOR, ALSO STABBED BY HARROUFF: Please send medical.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Medical on the line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Attack on two people that were sitting in their open garage. The offender was actually biting the victim in the face.
FISHER: There`s a girl lying on the ground. He beat her up. I ran over there. I`m bleeding profusely ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: All right, I want to go out to Ray Caputo who is a reporter for WDBO. Ray, this is Palm Beach County. It`s Florida. It`s the summer, the
palm trees, people on the beach and now this? It`s shocking. It`s horrible. It`s gross. Just start from the beginning. What happened here?
RAY CAPUTO, NEWS 96.5 WDBO REPORTER: Well, Austin Harrouff is in at Duffy`s Sports Bar with his dad and sister. It`s about 8:30 p.m.
Out of nowhere, he gets agitated about the service and storms off. No, Harrouff`s mom must have got call from the dad or the sister telling her
what he did because she becomes concerned. She called 911, tells the operator that he`s been acting strange as of late. He`s saying all sorts of
senseless things like he`s immortal, he`s a superhero. Lots of nonsense, and she says she`s worried about him.
You know, 45 minutes later, we get another 911 call learning that serious tragedy has unfolded in the neighbourhood about 4 miles away, the same
neighbourhood where his father lives jus a street ...
CASAREZ: OK, Ray, Ray, I`m gonna stop you right there because we want -- we want to take this step by step. We want everybody to listen to the 911 call
that Austin Harrouff`s mother made when he walked out of the restaurant in a huff. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police department, line`s recorded. This is Chrissy.
MINA HARROUFF, AUSTIN HARROUFF`S MOTHER: Yes, I need to, I don`t know how to do this, my son, he`s kind of taken off and I`m kind of concerned about
his own safety.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How old is he?
HARROUFF: He`s acting a little strange. 19.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he live with you?
HARROUFF: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you mean acting strange?
HARROUFF: It seems like he`s a little delusional or like he`s acting like ...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he have a history of that or anything?
HARROUFF: No. This is just like recent change that we`re noticing and he was out to dinner with his dad today and he took off and we just, you know,
he was with his sister and he said, you know, he feels immortal and like a superhero, so I`m just -- I don`t know what`s going on with him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know if he`s been taking any drugs or anything like that?
HARROUFF: Nothing. I`ve asked and nothing recent ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
HARROUFF: ... that I know of.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So did he leave the house or did he leave from the restaurant? Where was he last seen at?
HARROUFF: He left from the restaurant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: All right. And that is video you`re looking at from Austin Harrouff`s Facebook page. There it is right there. That`s him. That`s the
suspect.
All right, Justin Freiman -- OK. Justin Freiman, as we watch this, I guess, I want you to take us from here.
So, his mother called saying he just left the restaurant in a huff. I`ve got to call you to -- to help me because he -- he seems very strange, never
acting like this before.
Why did she make this call, Justin? Just because he left the restaurant in a huff.
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s what we`re wondering. It`s very obvious, he left the restaurant in a huff and then, as you said,
police then get a call, miles away, where he apparently walked and murders this couple.
CASAREZ: Did he know them, Justin?
FREIMAN: It seems that he doesn`t know them. It was about a street away from where his father lives. The -- the thinking is that he was walking by.
This couple was in their garage, basically in their garage with the garage door open, and he probably saw them there.
CASAREZ: Right. And they`re sitting on their couch, Justin, just enjoying the -- the evening air. And his mother said, he had a pocket knife on him.
So, Justin, we think that it might be that pocket knife, but what happened when he confronted the couple, according to authorities?
FREIMAN: Well, they say he was extremely violent. They also say that he used multiple weapons of convenience and then he stabbed them multiple
times. And finally, a neighbor sees something going on, approaches and he stabs the neighbor who thinks makes it back to his home to call 911.
CASAREZ: I want to go to Sheriff William Snyder who is joining us tonight from Martin County`s Sheriff`s Office in Stuart, Florida.
Sheriff, thank you for joining us under these circumstances that I know you`re investigating this case, but there`s more to this story that even
takes it to another level.
Tell us what happened after, I guess, the couple was killed. This young man allegedly started biting off the face of his victim?
WILLIAM SNYDER, MARTIN COUNTY SHERIFF: Yes, that`s what -- it appears to us that night it appeared that way and the forensic pathologist has agreed
with that observation.
Our first deputy got there within 10 minutes of the call from the Good Samaritan neighbour that she just discussed. She arrived and found Harrouff
on top of -- of our male victim, which she described as a bear hug.
She used a Taser, the stun gun repeatedly, and it did not work. Finally, another two-man unit arrived and the three of them and then a fourth team
arrived with a K-9 They and it was a Dana Brooke (ph) of a fight. They used all the force that they could. The dog bit the offender and then finally,
they were able to -- to pull him off.
CASAREZ: So, Sheriff, what was the demeanor of the suspect at that point of time?
SNYDER: Well, he was coherent. He was -- he made some grunting sounds. He did make a comment sometime that evening that `you won`t find any drugs in
me.`
Besides that, and his comment to our Good Samaritan neighbour where he said, `you don`t want any of this` when -- when the neighbor approached.
Those were the two coherent statements that we`re aware of.
CASAREZ: Why didn`t the stun gun work? Because that`s what you use it for in a circumstance like that. So the stun gun didn`t work. Was he abnormally
strong?
SNYDER: Well, he`s -- he`s a strong young man on a normal day. I think you`ve probably saw pictures of him. He`s very muscular. He had no shirt on
that night. And the stun -- Tasers generally work. In this case, the deputy described him as having jerked as if being shocked but it did not have the
debilitating effect that they`re -- they`re intended to have and that they -- they normally have.
He was exhibiting an unusual amount of strength. My second deputy on the scene is actually trained in martial arts and they were using all the force
he was humanly capable of, kicking, striking and nothing would get him to disengage.
CASAREZ: Now, I know that toxicology isn`t back yet, that takes a while, but do you believe that he was on any type of drug? The designer drug I
heard is flakka, possibly?
SNYDER: Well, you know, in South Florida and maybe other parts of the country, we have seen flakka cases. It will bring on what we call excited
delirium which -- which this seemed like. But absent toxicology report, we sent it to the FBI where a really in-depth analysis, we`re not using our
local state labs, we won`t know until those come back.
CASAREZ: Wow. So, you`re not even using the Florida Department of Law Enforcement Lab for the toxicology on this?
SNYDER: No. We -- we actually drove the blood to them. And after discussion and understanding what their capabilities are, we all collectively opted to
send the blood all the way to the FBI lab and they will be sure that they can do a deeper analysis and tell us exactly what`s in there.
CASAREZ: Wow. That`s really something. I want to ask you about the mother making that 911 call. I think a lot of people are perplexed that just
because their child goes out of the restaurant and they seem a little off, that she calls police? There`s got to be a history there.
SNYDER: Well, yeah. I think there had been events through the day, and she alludes to it. It wasn`t just that he left the restaurant in a huff.
Earlier in the day, he exhibited some rather unpredictable behavior, dangerous behavior, driving through a red light on purpose to show his
sister that he was invincible.
You know, his speech pattern, what he was saying. I think she recognized, as a mother, this is lot more than just her son being mad at the service.
You know, a mother -- a mother knows her son better than anybody and her instincts was something was going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Young man beating up a woman.
I`ve been stabbed in the back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives say he stabbed them both dozens of time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... making animal-like sounds ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... then began to chew ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... savagely biting the man`s face.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, we got units en route, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: You`re reading it right there. He bites off the man`s face. You don`t hear about things like this.
This is Austin Harrouff, he is the suspect. He`s a Florida State University student. Just about, at the end of this month, to go back to classes, but
he probably won`t.
I would to go to Adi Jaffe who is an addiction specialist with drugs. You heard - you heard the facts today from the -- from the law enforcement
officer in regard to aggressive superhuman strength. The stun gun not working. Flakka is a designer drug and they`re having an issue with it in
that area, in Palm Beach County. What`s flakka? What does it do to somebody?
ADI JAFFE PHD, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Flakka is a cathinone-type stimulant. And so, yes, indeed, it has been known to produce these, you know, typical
stimulant amphetamine and methamphetamine effect. Things like supernatural strength, people not reacting to physical injury, delusions, etc.
I do want to point out that in 2012, we had something very, very similar to this in May of 2012. And we thought flakka or bath salts at the time were
involved, and found out that they weren`t there, so it`s just like the sheriff indicated, there are other things that could be involved here,
specially this is a 19-year-old, we might be looking at something like early-onset schizophrenia or something like that as well and not
necessarily a stimulant.
CASAREZ: All right, very interesting. And we want to show everybody this, this suspect, Florida State University student, activated a YouTube channel
about five months ago. Watch this and listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(RAP MUSIC PLAYING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Slapping your mom (inaudible).
CASAREZ: Now, that is video from the suspect`s YouTube page. He also says during all of that, I`ve got a psycho side.
(RAP MUSIC PLAYING)
CASAREZ: OK. That`s it. I want you to hear that. But he also says I`ve got a psycho side and a normal side. I`ve lost my mind, help me find it. All
right. More about that in a second.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
To Dr. Lee Norman, you are the chief medical officer, forensic pathologist. Talk about somebody biting off somebody`s face, most likely when they`re
already dead.
NORMAN: Well, obviously, conducted as not normal. I agree with both of the earlier people, the Sheriff and with our addiction specialist because I
think we have to find out a lot more from the toxicology to know.
It shows the superhuman strength can put a really bad effect. The bite strength of a human is immense even when a person is normal, when they`re
out of their mind like this, to devastating injuries.
CASAREZ: All right, Bethany Marshall, "I`ve got a psycho side and a normal side. I`ve lost my mind, help me find it." That`s five months ago.
Doesn`t that, in a sense, show actually the opposite? Intent that he knows exactly what he is doing and then carried it out five months later?
MARSHALL: Absolutely. This does not appear to be primarily psychiatrically motivated. A manic person, a schizophrenic person does not do something
like this.
Sure, this could be a contributing factor as to why he chose to use drugs and does all these crazy YouTube videos, but I think this is a confluence
of factors.
Clearly, this guy is disturbed emotionally. Some kind of personality disorder that led to very poor decision-making. He loves the idea of
strength and power and being in charge, and because of that he may have chosen these super bath - these kind of bath salts that then led to this
psychotic behavior.
(CROSSTALK)
CASAREZ: And by the way, Austin Harrouff is in the hospital because he went in critical condition because of stab wounds to himself. Obviously, that --
that man, John Stevens, fought back to save his own life and that of his wife`s.
Well, now we want you to meet an 86-year-old farmer in North Carolina who is anything but retired. For 20 years, Harry Swimmer has introduced
hundreds of children with disabilities to the healing power of horses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRY SWIMMER, CNN HERO: Horses are very special animals. People just don`t realize it.
SWIMMER: What do you say now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Walk tall (ph).
SWIMMER: That`s my girl.
SWIMMER: We had a child on a horse who had a seizure and that horse stopped dead in his tracks. When nobody else noticed it, the horse caught it first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Harry swimmer is this week`s CNN hero. You can watch his full story and more great videos of healing horses at CNNHero.com. While you`re
there, nominate somebody who you think deserves to be a 2016 CNN Hero.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: Did 37-year-old yoga expert, Alexandra Duval, intentionally drive her beautiful identical twin sister off a 200-foot cliff, plunging the Ford
Explorer onto a rocky shore?
Outrage, after a judge orders her released, charges dropped, well the latest, charges in the last hour for the yoga twin busted again, this time
for drunk driving.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After a deadly crash killed her identical twin sister ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The SUV accelerated, made a sharp turn into a rock wall and showed no signs of braking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alexandra Duval was charged with second-degree murder. That charge was later dismissed. But now, Duval is in legal hot water once
again, arrested for driving while intoxicated.
Her blood alcohol level measured over three times the legal limit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: All right, Jose Lambiet joining us, publisher of gossipextra.com. You know, Alexandra Duval just -- just can`t get away from misfortune. I
mean, it was a short period of time ago she was with her identical twin sister in Hawaii, on Maui, and tell us about this horrendous accident that
resulted in first-degree murder charges for?
JOSE LAMBIET, GOSSIPEXTRA.COM PUBLISHER: Well, the accident, the cops had said at the beginning call that she had actually done it on purpose, fly
off the cliff. Alexandra, by the way, her real name is Alison Dadow.
The twins were going with a name that I could never document that they actually got in a legal manner. But, you know, they got to change, I think,
a lot of people were looking for them and not happy with them so that`s probably why they changed. But, you know, the -- the accident was witnessed
by actually a troupe of boy scouts. And they all say that the women were arguing a couple of minutes, still, maybe 30, 40 seconds before the car
actually apparently veered into the ravine from the road. So, that`s why (inaudible) charged Alison, who was the surviving twin, with homicide.
CASAREZ: You know, Michael Christian, when you look at this video here and you see how that car plunged through the air onto that cliff, and this is -
- Michael, this is Maui and this is the road to Hana, and anybody who has been to Hawaii knows the road to Hana has twists and turns and it`s a
really -- it`s sort of a dangerous road. They wouldn`t let rental cars on it. But how did they come to charge her with, I think, they finally agreed
to a second-degree murder? Was that it Michael?
CHRISTIAN: That`s it.
(CROSSTALK)
CASAREZ: How did they come to charge her when she would have killed herself at the same time if there was an intent there?
CHRISTIAN: Well, I think originally they did think that maybe it was a murder/suicide attempt, Jean. What`s so interesting is where this car
landed, and you just saw the picture.
The experts said that if it had been 10 feet anywhere around it, anywhere, both of these women would have been dead almost instantly. So it frankly
was a miracle that Alexandra survived.
CASAREZ: And charges were dismissed but now she has been charged with drunk driving in New York, and the saga continues. We`ll keep you up on this
story.
We do remember American hero Sergeant, 35-year-old John Kulick, Harleysville, Pennsylvania. He loved fire fighting, dancing, playing the
drums. His parents; Harry and Jane, his daughter Amanda. John Kulick, American hero.
"Forensic Files" is up next. Thank you to all of our guests, especially you, for being with us. See you Monday night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern.
Until then, good night, everybody.
END
