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Nancy Grace
Body of Missing Minnesota 5-Year-Old Girl Is Found; Hemy Neuman Sentenced to Life in Prison. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 23, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A search for a 5-year-old little Minnesota girl comes to an end, her body found in a rural area 90
minutes, just 90 minutes from home, little Alayna snatched from her own bed at nighttime, in the last hours, cops honing in on a suspect, a so-called
family friend that works with Daddy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a stranger-type situation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zach Anderson had spent the night at Alayna Ertl`s home before.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect is a co-worker, family friend of the child`s father.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) shock, senseless.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Law enforcement find Anderson in a wooded area. He points them in the direction of Alayna Ertl`s body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A twisted love triangle turns deadly when a high-level GE executive suspected of gunning down the husband of a co-worker in front of screaming
toddlers at an exclusive play school, then actually attends the dead victim`s wake and funeral as if nothing`s wrong, only to begin barraging
the victim`s wife, the mother of his three children, with iTunes love songs. Tonight, the jury hands down a verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m caught. And when I`m caught, I get crazy. Woo! I see angels! I see demons!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. A search for a missing 5-year-old little Minnesota girl comes to an end. Her body has been found in a rural area just 90 minutes
from home, little Alayna snatched from her own bed at nighttime. Well, in the last hours, cops hone in on a suspect, a family friend that works with
Daddy.
Now, I want to make it very, very clear, very often, when children go missing from their own home in the middle of the night and there`s no
forced entry, nobody heard a thing, the dog didn`t even bark, we immediately turn to the parents. Not in this case.
I want to go straight out to Matt Demczyk, the news director at KNSI, as well as Robyn Walensky, senior news anchor with TheBlaze.
First to you, Robyn. I want to start with how the girl went missing because that`s going to tell me a lot about who did this.
ROBYN WALENSKY, THEBLAZE RADIO NETWORK: OK, so she`s sleeping in her bed, and her mother, at 2:30 in the morning, sees her on the couch, puts her
into the bed. And she`s wearing underwear, we`re told, and has a little pink blanket. And then next thing you know, when the family wakes up at
8:00 o`clock in the morning, she`s gone.
GRACE: OK, hold on. I want to backtrack to the pink blanket. From what I understand -- this is important. This blanket is very important.
Do you remember, Robyn Walensky, tot mom, Casey Anthony? I mean, who wouldn`t? Do you remember Caylee had a blanket from her room, which means
the perpetrator was in the room and took her out of the room. The child was not wandering around somewhere. She was taken from her room.
Just recently, we covered the case of a little girl who we couldn`t identify. I believe her name was Baby Rose. And she had belongings from
her home, including a blanket which showed she came from the home. There she is, and there`s her blanket.
Now, what`s significant about this blanket? It is a pink "Frozen" blanket with one of the two lead characters on the blanket. My little girl has the
very same T-shirt with Elsa on the front just like that. This blanket becomes important later because we`re going to get a lot of evidence
because of where it`s ultimately found.
So that night, Robyn Walensky,, she is in bed. Now, what do we know about what time she goes to bed? Who puts her to bed? What can you tell me?
WALENSKY: Mommy puts her to bed. And the pink blanket is in the bedroom. And then the next thing you know, she`s gone and the blanket is missing.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Let`s get a timeline, Robyn. So she falls asleep, I think, with the family in front of the TV, OK?
WALENSKY: Correct...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... a million times. The Mommy picks her up. She doesn`t wake up. And this is I think around 2:30 AM. She`s been asleep for a long time on
the bed (sic). They didn`t want to wake her up. They pick her up. They very gently tuck her into her bed. What was she wearing, Robyn?
WALENSKY: She had on underwear, we are told, only underwear, not little PJs, just underpants, and she was wrapped in this blanket. That`s it.
[20:05:06]GRACE: So she is seen alive and well at 2:30 in the morning. For those of you just joining us, tonight, cops honing in on a suspect in
the disappearance and now the murder of a 5-year-old little girl, snatched out of her own bed in the middle of the night.
So she`s alive and well at 2:30 AM, Robyn Walensky with TheBlaze. What happens next?
WALENSKY: The next thing you know, the father comes home. He plays softball with this other guy. He comes home, we`re told, at around 2:30.
The friend, so-called friend, comes in at 3:30. The two of them reportedly talk until 4:00 o`clock in the morning. And then it`s four hours later...
GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Doesn`t anybody have to go to work in the morning? It would be a cold day in you know
where before I have people tromping in and out of the house at 3:30 in the morning!
(CROSSTALK)
WALENSKY: But the two are talking.
GRACE: That`s a whole `nother can of worms. So the father comes home at 2:30. It`s a softball friend, as well. They play on the same softball
team. They get in and they stay up and talk until around 4:00 AM. And then what happens?
WALENSKY: And then everybody goes to bed. Everybody is asleep. And then when everybody wakes up at 8:00 AM, Mommy and Daddy, their little girl is
gone.
(CROSSTALK)
WALENSKY: 8:00 AM, she`s gone.
GRACE: So between 2:30 and 8:00 AM -- we`re talking just a little over five hours. Question to you. Let me know when I get Matt Demczyk`s
satellite back up, Liz.
Robyn, did this friend, this family friend, ever go into the baby`s room?
WALENSKY: I have no idea. But according to the police, he must have snatched her because where did she go?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Hold on. I`m hearing in my ear, Matt Demczyk joining us right now from the scene, news director, KNSI. Matt, thank you for being with us.
Matt Demczyk, I`m trying to narrow down the timeline. And from what I understand, the little girl, baby Alayna, Laney (ph) Ertl, just 5 years
old, put to bed in her own bed around 2:30 AM after she falls asleep on the sofa in front of the TV.
The dad gets home from a softball game, and I guess went out after that with his friend. They get home between 3:30 -- 2:30 and 3:30. 8:00 AM,
the girl is gone. What happened in that time between 2:30 and 8:00 AM? Was there a dog barking? Did an alarm go off, anything?
MATT DEMCZYK, KNSI RADIO (via telephone): Nancy, that`s what everybody wants to know. That is that gap that so many people -- I mean, everybody
thinks that is, you know, the key, you know, is to find out exactly, you know, how he got his hands on this little girl. But that is the gap, yes.
I`ve been listening in to conversations with the panel. And yes, she -- Mom reported her missing at 8:00 o`clock, and then it was on after that.
But yes, you wonder how this little girl was taken...
GRACE: Let me understand this, Matt...
DEMCZYK: (INAUDIBLE) under her own roof. It`s just...
GRACE: After 8:00 AM. Let`s pick it up -- let`s pick up our timeline, OK? We can pontificate all night long, but I want to get the facts, Matt
Demczyk, KNSI. So the mom wakes up 8:00 o`clock, baby not in her room. What happens?
DEMCZYK: Well, that`s another good question. Yes, she -- I mean, she contacts -- that`s when she saw that she was missing, Alayna was missing,
along with Zachary Anderson, and then contacted authorities a few hours later. And then a few hours after that was the Amber Alert issued. So...
GRACE: OK, hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I want to back it up to 9:00 o`clock. We find out that Daddy has left his cell phone in the truck. And Robyn Walensky, is it correct that
the dad`s truck was missing? Or was it Zachary Todd Anderson`s truck that was missing?
WALENSKY: It`s the father`s truck with the father`s cell phone that are missing.
GRACE: OK. So the dad`s truck is gone. His cell phone is left -- he left it the night before. Think back to 2:30 AM, coming home from a softball
game. He left his cellphone in his truck.
OK, Robyn, what happens then?
WALENSKY: Well, then what happen is, is that the police, once the Amber Alert is issued -- the timeline of events is that the father of this man
who`s on the run notifies the local sheriff that he believes it`s his son in the stolen truck.
GRACE: And is that because, Matt Demczyk -- did the son, and I`m talking about 25-year-old Zachary Todd Anderson, ask his dad to go up to their
mountain cabin?
DEMCZYK: Yes, that is true, yes. The kid -- "the kid" I say, but he`s 25 years old.
GRACE: He`s not a kid.
DEMCZYK: But yes, (INAUDIBLE) his son, Zachary Anderson. He asked permission to go to the family cabin in Motley, which is some, you know,
80, 90 miles away from where the girl was taken. And he asked permission. And the father -- and you know, God bless the father for saying --
(INAUDIBLE) reporting this, you know, that Zachary asked to do this.
GRACE: Right. OK...
DEMCZYK: And that was (INAUDIBLE) for police. And so they went up to the cabin, and that`s where it continued.
[20:10:02]GRACE: OK, let me pick it up right there. So the mom finds the baby gone 8:00 AM. They realize the dad`s vehicle, his truck, is gone 9:00
AM, with the cell phone in it. They immediately start pinging, trying to get a ping on that phone, and they follow it. They follow the ping up to
Todd (ph) County. We`re now getting close to 90 miles away.
So Matt Zarrell, now we`re at 9:00 o`clock AM, 10:30 AM. What happens then, Matt?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, authorities are notified just before 10:00 AM. Now, cops immediately start canvassing
local businesses in the neighborhood for surveillance video. When the leads and other videos did not result in them being located, the cops
issued the Amber Alert at 1:12 PM, just a couple hours after she was found missing.
GRACE: And then what?
ZARRELL: And then what happens is the cops get a call about 45 minutes later from Anderson`s father, and that`s what leads cops to go up 90 miles
north to the family property.
GRACE: OK, let me see if we have an aerial of the family property. It`s out in the middle of a very densely wooded area. This little community at
Wilderness Park is nestled in -- look at this dense foliage and trees.
So at that point, Robyn Walensky with TheBlaze, they start heading up. They get to Wilderness Park and what happens?
WALENSKY: They find the white truck in kind of a ravine in a swampy area. And apparently, he tried to cover it up because it was behind a whole bunch
of bush.
GRACE: Wa-wa, wa-wait, wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! Wa-wait! Matt Zarrell, don`t they look in the window of the cabin first?
ZARRELL: No, actually. They find the truck first before they go into the cabin, according to the police documents we have.
GRACE: OK, so they find the truck, the dad`s truck. And then what to they do?
ZARRELL: Then they go into the cabin to look for them. Nobody is inside, but they found a lot of evidence inside the cabin.
GRACE: Now, didn`t that include a lot of ammunition and a gun on a table?
ZARRELL: Yes. In plain view, cops saw a single-shot 20-gauge shotgun on the kitchen table with multiple 20-gauge rounds.
GRACE: I cannot imagine what this child went through. So then, everybody, the police see footsteps, a path in muddy muck. They can see a footstep
path. And they don`t go down the path. They call in the K9s. So they call in the K9s, Matt. And then what happens with the K9s?
ZARRELL: OK, so the K9 unit begins to search the area past the truck. And just before 4:30, cops made contact with Anderson. He`s knee deep in water
in a very swampy area.
GRACE: Knee deep in water. This guy, the friend of the family -- cops finally follow him. They follow the ping of his cell phone. They follow
the leads. They`re going 90 mph. They get to this place in camp wilderness. They see the vehicle. They see the gun in the cabin. They
follow the trail, and there they find not the little girl, they find this friend knee deep in water and muck, and he turns around...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:17:05]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 8:00 AM, Alayna Ertl`s parents realize she`s missing from her home, along with their house guest, Zachary
Anderson. Their truck was also stolen. 10:00 AM, the Meeker County sheriff`s office receives a report of a missing child. Deputies canvas the
neighborhood and nearby businesses looking for video leads into the disappearance. At 1:12, authorities issue an Amber Alert. Hours later, a
tip sends authorities to a property in Cass County owned by the Anderson family. 4:24, law enforcement find Anderson in a wooded area. According
to the DCA (ph), he points them in the direction of Alayna Ertl`s body.
GRACE: Welcome back. We are describing the desperate search for this 5- year-old little girl, Laney. Long story short, the search has come to an end.
Matt Zarrell, when they get to the end of the trail, this muddy footprint trail through woods, through the dense, dense forest, they come upon a
mucky stream-type area. This guy, the suspect, the family friend, is standing knee deep out in the middle of it. And he turns around to the
cops. And then what happens?
ZARRELL: He is taken into custody, and he`s read his Miranda warning at that time. And the cops actually ask him, Where is the location of the
girl? And he responds with, What girl?
GRACE: Whoa! Wait a minute. Matt Demczyk, KNSI, he actually says, What girl?
DEMCZYK: Yes. Initially, he did respond that way. He initially said, What girl? Acting like, Oh, I have no idea what you`re talking about. But
it sounds like it didn`t take long after that that he knew the gig was up. And he did point authorities in the direction...
GRACE: Oh, just the gall of saying, What girl? Robyn Walensky with TheBlaze, isn`t it true, Robyn, that when they see him out there, knee deep
-- he`s trying to cross this stream, he`s covered in scratches.
WALENSKY: His hands had lacerations on them, yes. She must have fought back, which is chilling when you think about it.
GRACE: A 5-year-old girl. A 5-year-old little girl trying to fight this thug, a 5-year-old little girl fighting, fighting with all of her heart.
Matt Zarrell, after this guy says, What girl, what happens?
ZARRELL: So Anderson -- eventually, he speaks to investigators, and he indicates that the child was hidden in the swamp under some debris. He
agreed to show officers the approximate location where she was hidden. He actually walked the officers to the edge of the swamp and pointed in the
general direction indicating that she was, quote, "over there."
GRACE: So he just pointed off in some direction and said, Over there. And I don`t know why this particular detail is so hurtful to me, but cops go
over there and start removing debris, tree limbs, leaves,
[20:20:08]And the first thing they see is the corner of that little pink "Frozen" blanket sticking out from under limbs and wet leaves and dirt.
And they go to the blanket, and they find Laney.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body of Alayna Ertl has been located.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With that, a Watkins neighborhood began another devastating chapter of grief, rallying around the Ertl family as
investigators work to uncover what led up to the 5-year-old`s death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We left off with the story where the police, desperately searching for 5-year-old little Laney, follow his direction, this family friend from
work, played softball with the father, and they see the little pink blanket sticking out from under debris and dirt and mud, leaves, branches. They
lift it up, and they find this beautiful little girl.
[20:25:14]Matt Demczyk, joining us from KNSI -- Matt, what was the condition of little Laney when they find her?
DEMCZYK: Well, like you mentioned, she was -- she was with that pink blanket that -- from the Disney -- this is tough to talk about -- from the
Disney show, "Frozen." And they say she died of, as they say, homicidal violence, blunt force injuries and strangulation. And (INAUDIBLE) the
determination there when the body was found, just a horrible scene, I`m sure.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, what more do we know? Uh-oh, I see Robyn Walensky motioning at me. Robyn Walensky with TheBlaze, what more do we know about
her body?
WALENSKY: I think that the worst part is the sexual penetration. That`s the thing that really is quite disturbing.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, this little girl, just 5 years old, found in this horrible condition, and I don`t know if it`s going to be ultimately in the
supplemental police reports, but they knew immediately by looking at the body that she had been sexually assaulted.
ZARRELL: Yes, Nancy, you`re right. When they searched the area, they discovered her body, she was naked. She was completely submerged in the
water and she was hidden under some brush and other debris. She was immediately pronounced dead at the scene.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me now, certified child welfare law specialist Ashley Willcott, an expert in her field. Also with me, David
Lee Windecher, defense attorney, author of "The American Dream: HisStory in the Making" and Austin Dove (ph) out of LA, defense attorney.
First to Ashley Willcott. Ashley, weigh in.
ASHLEY WILLCOTT, CERTIFIED CHILD WELFARE LAW SPECIALIST: I got to tell you, Nancy, there are so many disturbing pieces of this. But two things to
consider. One is the system worked like it should in best circumstances after the child was reported missing.
Thank God they issued an Amber Alert quickly. Thank God the perpetrator`s father called him in so they could at least arrest him, put him in jail and
find the body so that the parents have some sense of closure, as horrific as the crime is.
Second, perpetrators like this can`t be rehabilitated. He needs to stay in jail.
GRACE: Well, I think you take a 5-year-old little girl from a friend that trusts you, out of her home where she`s safe and sleeping under her little
"Frozen" blanket, and you assault her and murder her and leave her in that condition, submerged under water in the dirt -- he needs the death penalty.
I know that`s not all PC and everybody doesn`t believe in the death penalty. Uh-uh. No. This guy needs the death penalty. And I guarantee
you, if a jury was given that choice, they would give it to him. But guess what? They`re never going to have that choice.
Also with me, in addition to Ashley Willcott, is David Lee Windecher and Austin Dove. Windecher, it`s Minnesota. They don`t have the death
penalty. You can sex assault and murder as many little girls as you want to, and you`re going to get life in prison for I and you too and everybody
else -- the taxpayers get to pay for them and their cot and three hots, three hot meals a day.
DAVID LEE WINDECHER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy...
(CROSSTALK)
WINDECHER: I think that there`s some information missing here.
GRACE: Really? What?
WINDECHER: Well, police are telling us that the investigation is not over. If the person who committed this crime, this egregious crime, is in
custody, why is the investigation ongoing? We haven`t heard from the parents...
GRACE: Why are you saying that?
WINDECHER: Well, because you said yourself...
GRACE: You know why it`s not over.
WINDECHER: You said yourself before that you always investigate the parents. Who puts their 5-year-old child to sleep at 2:30 in the morning
and then goes to wake...
GRACE: She wasn`t put to sleep at 2:30. She fell asleep on the sofa. And then she was picked up and taken out of that room and put -- do you have
children?
WINDECHER: No, I don`t have any children.
GRACE: Well, then, obviously, you don`t understand falling asleep in front of a Disney movie and...
WINDECHER: Who leaves their cell phone...
GRACE: ... the parents don`t want to wake them up...
WINDECHER: ... in the car overnight? Who leaves their -- why is their cellphone in the car overnight?
GRACE: I`ve done it a million times because I live on my cell phone.
WINDECHER: You charge your phone in your car overnight.
GRACE: No, it`s dead when I go get it. That`s not a very good defense.
WINDECHER: This guy has no criminal history.
GRACE: The state doesn`t have to prove a motive!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Hold on. Hold on. Matt Zarrell -- I`m going to let you in in a minute, Austin. Don`t start wiggling around.
Matt Zarrell, isn`t it true that this guy had tried to commit suicide? What were those lacerations on his hands?
ZARRELL: Yes, so the lacerations were actually fresh lacerations to his left wrist.
[20:30:03] And when the cops searched the cabin, they found an apparent suicide note with blood on the note.
GRACE: So, back to the lawyers, Ashley Willcott, Atlanta; David Lee Windecher, Atlanta; Austin Dove, L.A.
So Austin, if he is not guilty, why did he suddenly decide to try and kill himself for the first time ever?
AUSTIN DOVE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: well, it could be the pressure of the investigation itself. As my colleague points out, there are still lots more
to be unravelled in this case. We don`t know a lot of things about this timeline. It is very significant about the ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I just told you the timeline.
DOVE: ... the complications.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Put him up, please.
DOVE: It could very well -- it could very well be, Nancy, that that if you ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I got to hear this.
DOVE: ... think about it -- the voluntary, the intoxication issue. That could also come into play.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Really? How?
DOVE: I agree. There are significant hurdles to climb. But we cannot get to the conclusion until you unravel these other things ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Are you calling me -- because Austin Dove, think back to criminal law in first year law school. I think even the two of you would agree with
me that the law is firm as laid down by the U.S. Supreme Court, that voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense. Otherwise, everybody
over in the jail would say, I was totally drunk. That`s not a defense. Why are you even saying that, Dove?
DOVE: As a general matter, that`s correct. They apply -- they don`t apply the general intent crimes to these specific intent (ph) crimes. What I`m
asking -- what I`m saying here is we don`t know the level of intoxicants, we don`t know what the father`s role was in this process, we don`t know
whether there were some accident that occurred possibly at the home, and this young man panicked afterwards and drove this child away. There are
just simply too many pieces to put together before you can say, let`s hang him up and let`s apply the death penalty.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Finally, I just got the first book at the actual cover of our new book, "Murder in the Courthouse." I want to share it with you. Here it is.
It`s the third in Hailey Dean`s murder mystery series and Hailey`s at it again.
What is it with Hailey Dean? Whenever she shows up, people drop like flies, dead! But this time, will Hailey be the next murder victim? Portions of
proceeds from this book go to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children to help find missing children. Help us help them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
And pre-orders for this book come with a signed manuscript page. Go to Amazon, Books-A-Million, Barnes & Noble and more, or for that manuscript
page, go to murderinthecourthouse.com.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN CRUZE, MEEKER COUNTY SHERIFF: This is not a stranger type situation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zach Anderson had spent the night at Alayna Ertl`s home before.
CRUZE: The suspect is a co-worker/family friend of the child`s father.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A shock. Essential ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Law enforcement finds Anderson in a wooded area. He points them in the direction of Alayna Ertl`s body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Ashley Willcott, certified child welfare law specialist out of Atlanta. David Lee Windecher, defense
attorney and author, and out of L.A., Austin Dove, defense attorney.
And just before we went to break, Austin Dove came up with a, let me just say, creative and innovative defense argument that maybe he panicked. What?
He panicked and raped the child? After the accidental death?
DOVE: Well, that would clearly not be the case. I don`t believe that would ever ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yeah.
DOVE: ... even maintain that there`s an accidental rape.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, you just said ...
DOVE: My suggestion was I don`t ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... accident.
DOVE: I said with regard to the cause of death. Now, I`m not -- I`m not certain about this sexual penetration issue. That was ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You`re not sure?
DOVE: That`s one thing that takes some time to reveal. You have got to analyze DNA evidence ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, why would you say that she`s naked? Why would a 5-year-old girl be naked, submerged under water?
DOVE: Well, I think the indication was the mother put the child to sleep with only underwear on. So I`m ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Where did the underwear go?
DOVE: ... maybe it could have been lost somehow.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Lost?
DOVE: If there is a panic situation, the body is placed somewhere, clothing could easily, something as light as underwear, could easily come
unfastened.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Really? Because my underwear has never just fallen off. Have yours? Just fallen off?
DOVE: Now, it depends now. That`s another question.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yeah. Answer it.
DOVE: We don`t know ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m taking that as a no. No, I mean, I`m not going to let you just throw out ridiculous defense, attorney, that this little girl, this is not
just a story, OK? This is not just a T.V. story. This is ...
(CROSSTALK)
DOVE: Correct. And I`m not ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... a 5-year-old little girl.
(CROSSTALK)
DOVE: I`m not treating that as a story.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I don`t like the suggestion that underwear just fell off in the heat (ph), in the panic. What panic?
(CROSSTALK)
DOVE: No. what was suggesting that in the handling -- listen, there is a handling of a child by a person for sure. The child is some distance from
the home. How the -- how these clothing came off the child is unknown. My suggestion is that ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I have got a pretty good idea.
DOVE: ... evidence would need to be waited. It could very well be what you`re suggesting. But the constitution permits this individual an
opportunity to put on a defense and say, listen ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I didn`t say otherwise.
DOVE: And this is a burden to be met.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: In fact, you know what?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You`re right.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You`re right.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Am I gonna have to cut the mike? Because nothing ...
(CROSSTALK)
DOVE: we got to weigh, Nancy, these ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... would make me happier ...
(CROSSTALK)
DOVE: ... the situation ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... Austin, than with - nothing would make me happier than for this guy, this family friend, to give me an explanation. Just give me one
sentence. Do you know what I`m going to do with that sentence come trial time? I`m going to slice him up like a Thanksgiving turkey with that one
sentence. I just hope, Windecher, that he tries to give a statement. Because do you know what? I guarantee you, it will be a lie.
[20:40:00] WINDECHER: I`m curious to hear the family`s statement, Nancy, because we haven`t heard from them yet and there`s a lot of questions that
would be answered if they ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Really?
WINDECHER: ... would make a statement ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What? Name one statement -- name one question.
WINDECHER: Again, the phone is a big issue to me. Why is the phone in the car? I never leave my phone in the car. My phone is my business. The guy
works at a company where he is receiving calls to go to work, so he needs his phone accessible to him. Why is the phone in the truck? That`s very
questionable.
GRACE: That`s your defense? Why his phone is in the truck?
WINDECHER: Look again, you mentioned the cuts on Anderson`s hands. We know that there was a hurricane -- or excuse me, a tornado just passed through
the town. We don`t know if his hands were ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You are not seriously saying the tornado did it?
WINDECHER: We don`t know if somebody else was involved or not. We don`t know. There are still questions.
GRACE: OK. All right. All right. Let`s go back to the facts. Straight back to Robyn Walensky, senior news anchor, joining me from "The Blaze." Robyn,
I hear Windecher arguing that maybe these weren`t faux suicide attempt. These lacerations on his wrist, then what was the suicide letter? How did
that get there?
WALENSKY: It wouldn`t make sense to me. This is a guy who is obviously troubled in many, many ways.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Whoa, whoa! whoa! Hold on, little lady. Put her back up. What do you mean troubled? Are you trying to tell me that this guy who has held down a
job, has never had a felony conviction, he has been coming over to that house on a lot of -- what was it, Matt Zarrell, summer Friday? And he would
spend the night over with this family on Friday nights? He`s been eyeing this little girl all summer. He doesn`t have any kind of mental illness. He
is a child predator. That`s what I think.
ZARRELL: Just minor violations, Nancy. He doesn`t have any really criminal history to speak of.
GRACE: OK, so what about it, Robyn Walensky? What were you trying to say about troubled?
WALENSKY: I just think that we need to look into his past and to see if there has been any other children in his past that something may have
happened that was maybe never reported.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A twisted love triangle turns deadly when a high level G.E. executive, suspected of gunning down the husband of a co-worker in front of
screaming toddlers in an exclusive play school.
Then actually attends the dead victim`s wake and funeral as if nothing is wrong. Only to then begin barraging the dead victim`s wife, the mother of
the victim`s three children, with iTune love songs. Tonight, the jury hands down a verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whose boss kills someone else`s husband?
STEVEN SNEIDERMAN, BROTHER OF VICTIM, RUSTY SNEIDERMAN`S: He simply executed my brother in cold blood with callous disregard for the life he
was taking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You respond by saying that the defendant would say that he was in love with you and wanted to be your husband? That`s your first
response?
ANDREA SNEIDERMAN, WIFE OF VICTIM: That was the only place I could go from there based on the fact that he just killed my husband.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, from the beginning, the wife of the dead victim, Rusty Sneiderman, has always said, there was no affair. But Scott Kimbler, I
believe that`s where the defense made a crucial mistake, getting up in front of the jury during the last day and telling the jury, no, no. Hemy
Neuman did not have an affair with Andrea. That was all delusional.
Then how, Kimbler, from News Radio 106.7, Scott, how could they possibly explain the hundreds of e-mails and texts, the dinners, the flowers, the
candlelight, the wine, the work trips with adjoining rooms. Then there were co-workers saw the two of them passionately kissing out in the open? Yet
they`re saying there is not an affair going on? And isn`t it true that Hemy Neuman`s own wife kicked him out of the house because she thought they were
having an affair as well?
SCOTT KIMBLER, NEWSRADIO 106.7 REPORTER: Yes. There seems to be a tremendous amount of affair that`s been there and certainly implicating
evidence of an affair at which husband cracks (ph) about the prosecution`s case since the beginning of this.
And apparently, it was going on for some time. Although Andrea, from what I understand, still denies that that ever happened, and they were trying to
crack the defense in this most recent trial for Hemy Neuman on that he was ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yeah.
KIMBLER: ... has this crazy delusions of a lot of things. As you`re aware, the demons that have visited him throughout his life ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Oh, yes. Thank you for bringing that up, Scott Kimbler. Joining me now, special guest, it`s Robert James, the Dekalb County District Attorney
who prosecuted Hemy Neuman.
Robert, thank you for being us.
ROBERT JAMES, PROSECUTED HEMY NEUMAN: Well, thank you for having me, Nancy.
GRACE: I got to tell you something, you never gave up. You never gave up. When the appellate court reversed this case, I nearly did a back flip. The
case, the original conviction by the jury, was reversed by an appellate court sitting up in their ivory tower, who said that some notations and
some files about what the shrinks said when they first interviewed the defendant should never have come into evidence.
Robert James, don`t you think it was a huge mistake for the defense to say the affair, the alleged affair, with the dead man`s wife was all a
delusion? That it never happened?
JAMES: Well, it happened. You know, it happened, and any reasonable person, anybody that can read e-mails or listen to witness testimony is going to
understand that it happened.
And so to the extent that, you know, they`re espousing a theory that is inconsistent with the facts. And you`re going to lose credibility with the
jury. It was absolutely a mistake.
[20:50:00] GRACE: Right at the beginning, they lose credibility with the jury by trying to downplay or deny an affair. Now, let me talk to you,
Robert James, the Dekalb County District Attorney who prosecuted this case. When you first heard that the appellate court had reversed that conviction,
what went through your mind?
JAMES: Oh, my God. We have got to do it again. It was never an option not to try this case again. Listen, Rusty Sneiderman was a 36-year-old father
of two. Taking his son to school on the morning that he was murdered and there was no way in the world we were going to let this case wither on the
vine. So yes, we were alarmed. Yes, we were bothered and upset. But we were going to do whatever it took to bring justice in this case.
GRACE: I want to you look, everybody, in addition to Robert James, the Dekalb County District Attorney who never gave up on this case.
With me is Dr. Sanam Hafeez, neuropsychologist out of New York. Dr. Hafeez, thank you for being with us. I wish you could look at the defendant, Hemy
Neuman, when this first happened and how he presented himself at trial, and how second go-around, he really changed his appearance.
He looks like a young, vibrant man. It has just been a couple of years and now he shows up looking like an aged rabbi. He, I guess, was trying to -
there now. What? I wouldn`t have even known this was the same guy. He really transformed his appearance for this jury, Sanam.
SANAM HAFEEZ, NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST: Yeah. Yeah, it looks like he is maybe trying to play on, you know, the jury`s sympathies and trying to present
himself as a, you know, a religious man, a devout man. That is a very different-looking guy. Yes.
GRACE: Very different. And I mean, it is something that we can`t see, for even the jury, this jury, had never seen him before this. OK, guys, in the
last hours, the jury hands down a verdict. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the superior court of Dekalb County, State of Georgia, State of Georgia versus Hemy Neuman, the defendant. Indictment
number 11CR1364-5, malice murder, possession of a firearm during commission of a felony. Judge Gregory A. Adams. Verdict as to count one. Malice
murder.
We, the jury, find the defendant guilty. As to count two, possession of a firearm during commission of a felony, we, the jury, find the defendant
guilty.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They want you to believe that that man is faking it and just taking these medications and subjecting himself to these serious
side effects and potential adverse effects just to fool you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m caught! And when I`m caught, I get crazy. Woo! Woo! I see angels! I see demons.
SNEIDERMAN: He simply executed my brother in cold blood, with callous disregard for the life he was taking.
While Rusty paid the ultimate price, the defendant imposed sentences on many others as well. Rusty`s children were sentenced to life without the
benefit of the love and guidance of their father. It is most ironic and cruel that as a result of the time it took this to bring this case to
justice, they had lived longer without Rusty than they did with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Angels and demons? Isn`t it true, Michael Christian, that part of the defendant`s defense was that Barry White from "I Can`t Get Enough of
Your Love, Babe," came to him as a demon and then an angel came as Olivia Newton-John?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. He had seen his first demon, I believe, when he was maybe a teenager, way back.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Oh, yeah. Says him now. Says him now. Robert James, the district attorney, I don`t know how you kept a straight face during that.
Dr. Joye Carter, Chief Forensic Pathologist, author of "I Speak for the Dead." Dr. Carter, did this guy, the victim, Rusty Sneiderman, ever have a
chance? Could he have defended himself anyway?
DR. JOYE CARTER, CHIEF FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: No. He was ambushed.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And also, he was shot in the jaw and the torso. Was there any way Rusty could have survived, at just 36 years old?
CARTER: No. He is going to have serious injuries to his spinal cord and blood vessels and clearly did not survive his injuries.
GRACE: Dr. Joye Carter joining us, but the jury has spoken. He is guilty.
We remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal Kevin Waruinge, just 22, Tampa. Purple Heart. Loved his Kenyan heritage. Honor student. Last studied
at Pensacola Christian to enlist. Wanted to work with the FBI. Parents, Patrick and Rose; brothers, Anthony and Raphael. Kevin Waruinge, American
hero.
A special goodnight from friends Caroline (ph) and Wanda. Caroline Connor (ph), mother, teacher, 4-H camp counsellor at Rock Eagle National 4-H
Center with me, back in college. After 30 years teaching high school, she is leaving the classroom to have some fun. Aren`t they beautiful?
Thoughts and prayers to Alvin Brown tonight. Devoted to friends and family. Alvin, please stay strong.
Thanks to our guests but as always, to you, for being with us. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern. And
until then, good night, friend.
[21:00:00]
END
