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Nancy Grace
Caught on Video, 4-year-old Thrown off Bridge/Real Estate Agent Vanishes Before Closing; Hunt for a Killer; Teen Girl Vanishes at Myrtle Beach. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 30, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:00] NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. Caught on tape, the terrifying moment a 4-year-old tot boy hurled off a three-story
railroad bridge into icy cold, muddy water in the Wynoochee River, the boy screaming and crying as the man throws him. But where`s Mommy? Take a
look at the video. She`s standing right there, doing nothing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, boy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like a rag doll.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got sucked up really fast. He was screaming and crying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Her sisters say their worst fears come true, beautiful, bright, bubbly, a brunette real estate agent closing a real estate deal that day
vanishes. Where is Camelia? Tonight, as we go to air, stunning new details emerging as police hone in on a suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A young real estate agent just about to close on a home...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vanishes. Police believe harm has come to the young real estate agent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The last person that she was known to have physical contact with was Luis Rodriguez.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video from the Find Camelia Facebook page.
A teen girl spends spring break, Myrtle Beach. But by the end of the week, Brittney Drexel (ph) vanishes. Last known images, this grainy surveillance
video in a hotel lobby.
Breaking now. Chilling new evidence as a tip reportedly reveals Brittney kidnapped, assaulted, tortured -- and fed to alligators?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Caught on tape, the terrifying moment a 4-year-old tot boy hurled off a three-story railroad bridge into the muddy waters of the
Wynoochee River, the boy screaming as he`s thrown.
And where`s Mommy? Take a look at the video. She`s standing right there, doing nothing. Let`s take a look at the video in slow motion, please, Liz.
Rack it up for me. This bridge is actually -- whoa! -- three stories tall, three stories! You can`t really tell it in that video, but this child is
hurled three stories. Those are strangers below him.
Straight out to Charlie Land, news director, KLAY. Charlie, thank you for being with us. I can`t believe some idiot would throw a child three
stories into the water. What was Mommy doing?
CHARLIE LAND, KLAY RADIO (via telephone): Well, we tend to do things a little different up here in the Pacific Northwest, but that was way too
far, about 27 feet too far, as Mom just watched. Now, we`ve all watched people do this in swimming pools. It used to be an easy way to get your
kids to learn to swim, throw them in a swimming pool, but not off a railroad bridge into about 10 feet of water.
GRACE: Well, you know, actually...
(CROSSTALK)
LAND: The charges aren`t filed yet, but they should be filed sometime today.
GRACE: This is actually, Chris Spargo, Dailymail.com, a three-story bridge. This is not teaching your child to swim. This is throwing a child
three stories off a railroad bridge.
What do we know -- let me get back to my question. What do we know about the mother? Why is she standing there, doing nothing?
CHRIS SPARGO, DAILYMAIL.COM (via telephone): This mother is claiming that her son, who is 4 years old, wanted to desperately jump off this bridge
that is almost 30 feet high, which he can be seen flailing around as he`s thrown into the water, in which he`s screaming once he hits the water. She
said that he wanted to do it.
GRACE: Take listen to the 911 call.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m at the Montesano (INAUDIBLE) bridge at the river. And we just watched some kids -- some people throw the 4-year-old kid off
the bridge.
911 OPERATOR: So are they still up on the bridge?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, they`re off the bridge.
911 OPERATOR: Are the adults still up there or are they down below now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. They`re down.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Where are they now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are still here, but they`re probably going to leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joseph Scott Morgan, certified death investigator and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, this tiny tot was thrown off a
three-story bridge and landed, sadly, on his neck. What can that type of fall do to a child`s neck?
[20:05:10]JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Nancy, most people associate blunt force trauma with someone that has been struck with
an object. Blunt force trauma and impact can still be achieved from falling from a great height. You give a child this size, this position,
drop them off in water, this can actually be a lethal fall, if not debilitating.
I`s be very interested to know what type of injuries this child is going to have. I suspect that there will be a lot of hemorrhage in the neck and
possibly to the rear of the head. The child could possibly also have a closed head injury. And as you well know...
GRACE: Well, we`re waiting right now to get the medical report on what happened to this child.
I want you to hear more of that 911 call, Joe Scott.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Is it a male and female?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s two males and a female.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Can you describe one of the males to me? Is he white, black, Hispanic, Asian?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s white with longer hair, and he`s big, six foot He`s wearing black everything, black (INAUDIBLE) black shirt. The other
guy is white, about six foot, wearing sandals and red shorts.
911 OPERATOR: OK. He`s white, as well, you said?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Both are white.
911 OPERATOR: And what`s the female wearing? Is she white, black, Hispanic?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s white, and she`s wearing a top that`s like floral (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is it like a swimsuit top or...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. A swimsuit top.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And what`s she wearing on the bottom?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. She walked away and ended up -- I`m thinking short shorts. I know short shorts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So mom stands by and watches as her son, her 4-year-old tot, is hurled off the side of a bridge. Straight back to Charlie Land with KLAY.
Who is this guy? Is it the husband, the boyfriend, the live-in? Who is he?
LAND: Well, it`s just a boyfriend. Apparently, it`s an unwed mother. And you just wonder what the situations are at home. I`m not sure if she lives
with her parents or she lives by herself. But if they`re in a situation like this, then, of course, child protection will get involved with this.
GRACE: Well, what I`m trying to figure out...
LAND: But not with the boy (ph). The boy`s (ph) just going to have to be charged with a crime.
GRACE: What I`m trying to figure out is why Mom would stand by and let this happen.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Bernie Grimm out of Washington, Randy Kessler out of Atlanta. All right, Bernie, I think this should be an
attempted murder charge. Why not?
BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, I am one of eight kids, and I was the worst. And my mother did everything to me except
throw me off a bridge, for God`s sake. I remember her putting me on a railroad track, but that`s about it.
But this is -- when I saw this video, I could only watch it once. It was so nauseating. I have three kids myself and I know you have children, as
well. It`s so nauseating. A 4-year-old wants to jump off a bridge? I mean, a 4-year-old wants to go play with a wolverine! It doesn`t mean you
let him...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I don`t buy into that, Bernie, because isn`t it true, Chris Spargo, that what alerted everyone to take that video was the child screaming. So
this child did not want to go off the bridge, a three-story precipice. No. That is not what happened.
Chris, isn`t it true -- joining me, Chris Spargo, Dailymail.com -- that the whole reason the video was taken was because people heard the child
screaming.
SPARGO: That`s correct. That`s why they had time to actually take out their cell phones and get this video because people who were sitting there
(INAUDIBLE) heard what was going on, looked up, could not believe this scene, and then started taping in case anything like this did actually
happen.
GRACE: Guys -- oh, my stars! Look at that, three stories! Bernie Grimm, the boy did not want to jump off the bridge. And look, it would be like my
son telling me, Hey, Mom, I want to jump out of the moving minivan. That`s not going to happen!
GRIMM: No. I mean, just because...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... screaming his head off!
GRIMM: Yes, I mean, just because your son wants to jump out, for God`s sake, they`re kids. You don`t let them do it.
I`m telling you that`s what was reported. I can hear the screams. This kid doesn`t want to jump off the bridge. He certainly doesn`t want to be
thrown off the bridge. And you heard your medical person. I mean, when you hit water -- believe me, I know, I was raised three blocks from the
water -- it`s like hitting stone.
I mean, I hope to God that the kid is all right. But besides the physical injuries, I can imagine there`s going to be psychological trauma, too.
GRACE: He`s not all right.
GRIMM: Mom should not be a mom anymore. This is something that`s not solved with parenting classes.
GRACE: OK, Kessler, I see you shaking your head. Jump in.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, you said, How do you defend him for murder? This was not an attempted murder. A child screams and he wants to
do this, tells Mom...
GRACE: That`s not what happened! That is not what happened!
KESSLER: That`s what the mom was reporting, the guy was going to jump with the kid.
GRACE: Well, I`m sure the mom did say that. But can`t you hear?
KESSLER: Right, but you don`t accuse him of murder.
GRACE: You know, adjust your earpiece...
KESSLER: But that`s not murder.
GRACE: ... because you can hear the child screaming.
[20:10:00]KESSLER: That`s stupidity, it`s not murder. That`s not attempted murder, it`s attempted stupidity...
GRACE: Oh, so you`re going with the stupid defense?
KESSLER: It was successful stupidity, but it was not attempted murder. Successful stupidity is not a crime.
GRACE: So you do know that stupid is not a defense under the law.
KESSLER: Yes, but it also is not a crime under the law.
GRACE: OK, if somebody threw you off a three-story precipice, I would say that`s attempted murder. Why is it different, Kessler, when it`s a little
boy?
KESSLER: Well, maybe you have reason to want to throw me off. But who would want to throw a 4-year-old boy...
GRACE: No, I`m serious!
KESSLER: What`s his intent? His intent was to try to make the kid...
GRACE: It doesn`t matter what the intent was because both of you know, both of you are veteran trial lawyers, the law presumes you intend the
natural consequence of your actions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Consequences of your actions.
GRACE: And the example I would always give to juries is if I hold up a piece of fine china and I throw it down to a cement floor, the law assumes
I meant to break it. You throw a child, a tot off of a three-story railroad bridge, the law assumes you meant to harm the child, Randy.
KESSLER: When someone goes out with a gun and points it at somebody and shoots him, that`s attempted murder. Something like this, there are
defenses. This guy was told by the mom the child wants to jump. He said, I wanted -- he wants to impress this mom...
GRACE: OK, you know what? Go back to the beginning, Liz.
KESSLER: It`s different than a shot.
GRACE: Hold on. You listen and see if you can`t the child screaming. Take it from the top, Liz, please.
You can hear the child screaming at the beginning. And according to witnesses, that`s why they all looked up. They`re actually -- joining me
right now is a witness to the incident. Brianna Jones is with us. Brianna, thank you so much for being with us. What first alerted you to
look up at the top of the bridge?
BRIANNA JONES, WITNESS (via telephone): Well, Cable (ph) was actually taking a picture of me and my friends on my phone, and then he said, Hey,
look, there`s a little boy up there. And that`s when they were getting ready to throw him off the bridge.
GRACE: And what did you observe?
JONES: Well, he was, like, picking him up, and like, swinging him, like he was going to throw him off. Then he threw him off. And the little boy --
there`s (INAUDIBLE) like, a beam on the train trestle. He almost cracked his head on it. And then when he hit the water, he landed wrong on his
neck. So I thought he broke his neck. And then he, like, came up and he`s screaming and crying.
GRACE: Oh, my stars! Look at this! Brianna Jones, what was the mother doing during all this? She just let it happen?
JONES: She was actually in the water. She was the one that swam over to him. And she was, like -- in the video, you can hear her go, Woo, like
it`s fun. And then when he hit the water, she, like, swam over to him really fast.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:16:47]GRACE: Her sisters say their worst fears come true. Beautiful, bright, bubbly, a brunette real estate agent closing a real estate deal
that day vanishes into thin air. Where is Camelia? Tonight, as we go to air, stunning new details emerging as police hone in on a suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Family and friends fear foul play.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Urban living at its finest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missing real estate agent Camelia Perez-Hernandez.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She loves her job.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amazing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She loves her (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police need your help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Jeffrey Boney joining us from "The Houston Forward Times." Jeffrey, thank you for being with us. I want to take it from the
beginning. That day, the victim, who -- many people say she left on her own. I find that very hard to believe. Camelia disappears, and she had a
very big closing that day.
Liz, can you pull up some sound of Camelia? I want the viewers to hear her. She would go on Facebook and on the real estate Web site and talk
about properties she was listing. It was very public what properties she was going to, what properties she was selling, where she would be. It
would be very easy to find her.
Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAMELIA PEREZ-HERNANDEZ, REAL ESTATE AGENT: I`m holding an open house. So this is urban living at its finest. You can eat, shop, dine, drink, live,
all in the same place. So I`m going to take you through this gorgeous town home, and just let me know what you think.
So this is the first story. As you walk in, this could be an office or another bedroom. You walk around, and then you have a full bath in this
area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That video is from Camelia`s Facebook page. And you can see she gives the address as to where she`s going to be, that she`s having an open
house. Open house -- that means to me, Jeffrey Boney, that anybody can come in or out during open hours of the open house.
JEFFREY BONEY, "HOUSTON FORWARD TIMES" (via telephone): Absolutely, Nancy, according to her sisters, Nancy, they spoke to her about 9:00 o`clock on
the evening of July the 11th while she was exercising near her apartment in Richardson. It`s very true that anyone could have followed her, have known
where she was at, could have been in the vicinity of her Richardson apartment while she was exercising. And so it`s very disturbing as to what
may have happened to Camelia.
GRACE: So that day -- let`s go through timeline. Jeffrey Boney with us from "The Houston Forward Times," that day, the day that she goes missing,
what happened? What were her movements?
BONEY: Well, she -- of course, she was very active as a real estate agent. She -- as you stated, she was listing some, showing some properties, listed
exactly where she would be. She went home. She had a pretty routine life. She actually went to her apartment in Richardson, Texas, and again around
9:00 o`clock in the evening...
[20:20:08]GRACE: Wait a minute Wait a minute, Jeffrey Boney -- Jeff Boney joining me from "The Houston Forward Times." You just said that Camelia
has a very ordinary, routine life. I don`t think dating a married guy is routine and ordinary.
BONEY: Well, routine as far as her daily routine, is what I mean, not so much the fact that she`s dating a married gentlemen. Of course, I hadn`t
gotten to that part yet. But I do know that as far as her daily routine, as far as job and work and her going home, it was pretty routine. As far
as her whereabouts that night, she went to go work out near her Richardson apartment. And of course, she went missing after that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A young real estate agent just about to close on a home...
[20:25:00]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... vanishes. Police believe harm has come to the young real estate agent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The last person that she was known to have physical contact with was Luis Manuel Rodriguez.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me, Justin Freiman on the story. Justin, the day that she goes missing -- well, the night that she goes missing, I find it very
interesting that she posts that day that she`s pregnant. Now, the next day, she goes missing. Now, I understand people are saying that, Oh, that
was a joke. I don`t think it was a joke. "This is confirmed. I`m going to be a mom. I didn`t expect it. I have not imagined it. I still can`t
believe it. Tomorrow, I have an appointment with my OB to determine the maturity of my pregnancy."
Isn`t she dating a married guy?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): She is. She was dating a married guy who also happens to have kids. And that was posted on
the evening she went missing, about 8:21 in the evening.
GRACE: Joining me now, Sergeant Kevin Perlich, the PIO with Richardson Police Department. Sergeant Perlich, I understand that you have honed in
on a person of interest.
SGT. KEVIN PERLICH, RICHARDSON POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Yes, that would be the person she was having the relationship with, Mr. Luis
Rodriguez.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me out of LA, Dep Kirkland, former prosecutor and author of "Lawyer Games," Bernie Grimm, Washington, Randy
Kessler, Atlanta.
First to Mr. Kirkland. Thank you for being with us. You know, when you mix a married boyfriend into the scenario, and you announce your pregnancy,
things go sideways. It would not be the first time, Dep.
DEP KIRKLAND, FORMER PROSECUTOR: No. In fact, it`s very common. As you know well, most cases of this sort, homicides, end up -- I am calling it a
homicide, sorry, but she`s been gone for seven weeks, and there are other indications this is foul play involved.
Usually, they come out of some sort of a relationship. There is evidence - - apparently, there`s been a claim that this pregnancy claim was false. But if you saw when it was posted, it was 8:20 that evening. She talked to
her sister, I think, or family at 9:00 that night, the last time anyone spoke with her. So they told -- if she told them it was a joke, she had to
have done it then. And like you say, I don`t believe it, either. Maybe she...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What do you make of the claims? With me, Dep Kirkland, LA, Bernie Grimm, Washington, Randy Kessler, Atlanta. Don`t move. Sergeant Kevin
Perlich joining me from the Richardson Police Department. Now, it`s my understanding that there are claims that she, quote, "wanted to go off on
her own."
Why do people always claim that when a woman goes missing and she`s actually dead?
PERLICH: Well, that`s probably an easy way or a method by which they try to put someone off the trail, is to tell someone that they`re going away
with them or someone ran off That`s a pretty common ploy.
GRACE: Joining me right now, special guest, Sylvia Perez-Hernandez, sister of Camelia. Sylvia, thank you for being with us.
SYLVIA PEREZ-HERNANDEZ, SISTER (via telephone): You`re welcome.
GRACE: Do you believe this line that Camelia wanted to, quote, "go be alone," and go off on her own? That sounds crazy to me. She seems like
she was loving life. She loved her job. She`s very successful. I mean, she was beautiful, bubbly, everything. Do you really believe she would be
away from you and the rest of her family without contacting you?
PEREZ-HERNANDEZ: No. We`ve always told the police and everyone else from day one that that is not like Camelia, that that`s not even a choice for to
us believe. We know 100 percent that she would have never left on her own or willingly.
GRACE: Do you know what drives me crazy, Sylvia? Joining me is the sister of Camelia, and we`ve been trying to help find Camelia since she first went
missing.
And I know this is not going to stun you or shock you, Sylvia, but I don`t think that she`s alive anymore. I agree with you. I don`t think she took
off on her own. And I hate to just put it out there because I don`t want to cause you any more hurt or anguish than you`ve already suffered, but
this is totally not a missing persons case.
The fact that she was dating this guy, I think that really plays into it, Sylvia.
PEREZ-HERNANDEZ: Yes. And Nancy, now that you mention it, I want to clarify one thing because I`ve heard you mention it a couple times already.
You keep saying this married guy. He was not in an active marriage. He was a married separated guy. And we know that to be a fact.
It was aggravating to us the first time when the news came out and you guys put it out there as if she was having an affair with a married guy, which
is not the truth.
[20:30:00] We know that this person was a -- a very manipulative (ph) and a controlling individual. So to be honest with you, we don`t even know that
she was ever a willing participant on this relationship.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`m so glad you clarified that, Silvia. That he was separated. So, now are you telling me he was divorced?
PEREZ-HERNANDEZ: He was in the process of getting a divorce, yes.
GRACE: So he was divorced or was he married? Because there`s really no in between.
PEREZ-HERNANDEZ: He was -- he was in the process of getting a divorce. He had been separated for a while already. He was not in an active marriage.
GRACE: Well, you know, I`m glad you brought -- brought that up because you know, Sergeant Perlick, if this guy is divorced, or doesn`t have anything
to hide, then why would he be a suspect? I mean, he really only comes in to may play as a suspect if he is trying to hide his relationship with
Camelia.
SERGEANT KEVIN PERLICK, RICHARDSON POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, he was the last person that was seen leaving the apartment complex with her just before she
was reported missing the next day.
She did not show up for work the next morning and the fact that the family there on his side has been a little bit less than cooperative with us
throughout this investigation.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Exciting news, this week, everybody`s favorite magazine, the "National Enquirer," featuring an excerpt from the new Hailey Dean murder
mystery, "Murder in the Courthouse."
All of us here, huge fan of the "National Enquirer" who has joined us in many countless crusades for justice. The search for missing people,
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Well, the "National Enquirer" and the Hailey Dean preview sneak peek hits the stands September 6th.
Portions of proceeds from `Murder in the Courthouse" go to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Pre-orders come with a gift of
an autographed manuscript page. Thank you, "National Enquirer."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Camelia Perez-Hernandez hasn`t been seen in weeks. But police believe harm has come to the real estate agent and issued a murder
warrant for her married boyfriend.
Police are on the hunt for 41-year-old Luis Manuel Rodriguez. Authorities say Rodriguez was seen on video with Hernandez the night she disappeared.
They fear she was taken to a nearby trail where some of her belongings were found. Police and family want to know what happened to Hernandez and fear
her boyfriend might be the only one with answers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Justin Freiman, also on the story, tell me what the new developments are.
FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy. Police are saying that she was last seen with her boyfriend and that they were walking on a trail near the home, and that
area has been searched. And family members say that they actually found some of her belongings there.
GRACE: You know, that goes back to the theory, Justin Freiman, that she left town. Her sister, joining us tonight, Silvia Perez-Hernandez,
disagrees with that, and why would you take your belongings, Justin, if you`re going to move away suddenly without telling your family, just quit
your job when you`re closing on a big deal? And then some of your belongings are found strewn along a trail, Justin?
FREIMAN: That`s right. The things that were taken from her home were just something that could be taken quickly, things like clothing, but furniture
and other items were left there.
GRACE: You know, another thing, to Jeff Boney, associate editor of "Houston Forward Times." The sister, Camelia`s sister, Silvia, is telling us that
this guy, that police are now looking at, was separating from his wife, although they were still married. But yet, Jeff Boney, it is my
understanding that Camelia`s relationship with him was kept secret. Why? Why would he want the relationship secret?
BONEY: Right. There are so many unanswered questions, Nancy. Let me tell you something that another thing that Camelia`s sister said is that they
learned from a therapist that she was seeing a therapist, and they told her that Camelia had recently ended this so-called secret relationship with
this married man, Luis Rodriguez.
Why was it considered secretive? Was it the age difference? Was it the fact that he was involved in things that they didn`t want her to know about? Who
knows? But the fact is they knew who this gentleman was because she was able to contact him by phone to find out exactly what happened to her
sister.
And she, of course, was told by Rodriguez, by phone, that she said -- he said that she sent him an e-mail saying she was leaving North Texas for a
while to be on her own, but of course, they don`t believe that.
GRACE: No, I don`t either. And joining me is Camelia`s sister, the sister of the missing realtor set to close a big deal but she never made it. Why?
Because she has gone missing.
Tonight, we need your help. What has happened to Camelia? With me, Silvia Perez-Hernandez. So why was she -- do you know why, Silvia, she was trying
to break it off with this guy?
[20:40:00] PEREZ-HERNANDEZ: Yes, Nancy. Like I told you before, you`re asking why was the relationship secret? Like I told you before, he is known
-- he is -- to our understanding, he was a very manipulative person, very controlling.
So for all we know, their relationship was secret the whole time because he wasn`t a (inaudible). He has -- we`ve learned now that he had a history of
violence with him toward her.
She also mentioned it to one of her co-workers before, the week before she went missing, she mentioned to one of her co-workers crying, telling her
that she was afraid because she felt that one of her ex-boyfriends was trying to disappear (ph) her. The week after that, she goes missing.
You`re asking why he ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Do you know what? That is no coincidence, Silvia. Unleash the lawyers, Bernie Grimm, Randy Kessler, Dep Kirkland.
You know, Dep, former prosecutor and author of "Lawyer Games," joining me out of L.A., the defense attorneys would have you believe that that counts
for nothing and how many dozens of times have we seen someone that goes missing or is murdered, in the weeks or days before their disappearance
says, you know what, I`m afraid of so and so. I`m scared. I want to break this off.
Now, the defense would argue that that has nothing to do with the disappearance. But I disagree. I think it is huge, just like a billboard.
DEP KIRKLAND, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If you want to go pack to the O.J. Simpson case, check out the 911 calls. How many times were the police called to
that residence? How many times could you hear her screaming on the phone, `he`s going to kill me, he`s going to kill me, he`s going to kill me.` I
mean, it`s just - it`s irrelevant. I don`t -- I don`t know that anybody who would say it is irrelevant but certainly isn`t.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I`ll let you have a dry run on that. Kessler?
KESSLER: Well, I think, yes. Things do point to them but you have got to make -- you have got to have more than just circumstantial evidence. You
can`t just say we think it leads to him. You don`t have a body. You don`t have witnesses. You don`t have a murder weapon. You need a lot more to put
somebody in jail for life ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You just have the missing person, Camelia, saying `I`m afraid of him. I think he is going to try and make me disappear and then bam! She`s
gone.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A teen girl spends spring break at Myrtle Beach. By the end of the week, Brittanee Drexel vanishes. Last known image, grainy surveillance
video in a hotel lobby.
But breaking right now, chilling new evidence. A tip reportedly reveals Brittanee kidnapped, sex assaulted, tortured, and fed to alligators?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drexel was last seen leaving the Blue Water Hotel in Myrtle Beach.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the teen was in the city for spring break. She was supposedly heading back to the motel where she was staying but
never made it there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The FBI agent`s account in the federal court transcript is based off of an inmate`s jailhouse confession. The FBI agent
testified that several witnesses have told them Drexel`s body was put into a gator pit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, Doug Pardue, investigative reporter with the "Post and Courier", it is really almost more than I can take.
I remember when Brittanee first went missing during spring break. We covered it covered as a missing person. We covered it and covered it and
covered it. Let`s see that video of her walking -- there she is on the trip -- of her walking to the hotel hobby. It`s the last known surveillance
video of her. And hoping for a break. And now, I mean, what could be worse?
A tip saying you`ll never find her body, alligators got her. And Doug Pardue, we`re getting a lot of our information, not just from some
anonymous tipster but from federal court transcript.
And I am not messing with the feds. They put it in the transcript, I believe it. Because it is somebody talking under oath. What do we know?
Where is this tip coming from, that this little girl was tortured, assaulted, by several people and fed to alligators?
DOUG PARDUE, "POST AND COURIER" INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, this evidence is coming from a jailhouse confession from a man named Taquan Brown who is
in prison on a 25-year sentence for voluntary manslaughter.
He gave this evidence to authorities after he had been in jail, or been in prison for just a few months and obviously, seeking some form of a -- of a
break in his sentence.
So when the police -- when the FBI agent was testifying in court earlier, it was early as last week, he was repeating the statement of this inmate
who claims to have been sitting in a house near McClellanville when he saw Brittanee being sexually abused.
There were several men present there at the time, and he said while he was there, he ran out the door to the outside, goes back inside, he heard two
shots and then the last thing he saw was her being carried off in some form of wrapping.
GRACE: The tip, basically, you`ll never find her body. The alligators got her. Now, here`s the problem with all this. The problem is that he is a
jailhouse snitch. He wants a deal. And it could be argued he would say anything to get a lesser sentence. Unleash the lawyers. Dep Kirkland,
Bernie Grimm, Randy Kessler. What about it, Kessler?
KESSLER: I`m glad you`re on our side for once. You right, you can`t really convict somebody based on a jailhouse informant who`s got a sentence to
life. That`s enough reason to convict somebody ...
(CROSSTALK)
[20:50:00] GRACE: Well, actually I mean, you can but it`s going to be difficult. There has got to be something to corroborate it.
KESSLER: You would have more than that if you were prosecuting. You`re a good prosecutor.
GRACE: Well, thank you. But sucking up really doesn`t work here. Thanks anyway. So, OK, Bernie -- Bernie Grimm, you got to have something to
corroborate this because nobody is going to believe it just on a jailhouse snitch.
GRIMM: Right. And first of all, Nancy, I can hear our viewers screaming, well they don`t have a body. You can`t convict them. And that ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: They`re probably not screaming that actually.
GRIMM: That`s right.
GRACE: They`re probably thinking that they`ve done away with the body and they`re probably wondering, wow, can you prosecute these guys ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRIMM: Right.
GRACE: ... without a body? And the answer to that is yes.
GRIMM: The answer -- actually the answer is yes. But it is atrocious. I mean, these guys - I mean, unfortunately, it is amazing that Mr. Taylor,
who is the head of this crew, appropriated, these guys were the fastest swimmers up the canal there.
But you`re not going to get a conviction. Now, Nancy, if you have got a -- if you have got a lawyer, a prosecutor with some fire and brimstone like
you, when I heard you used to be able to shake it in the courtroom, then maybe a conviction. But your average prosecutor is not going to put this
creep on the stand and get a conviction.
I mean, I know you`re not intimidated by the fact that these transcripts come from the feds, who cares? That doesn`t scare me. I mean, they`re only
repeating what this jailhouse person who is in jail on a homicide, voluntary manslaughter, he wants to go home for God`s sakes.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Nobody said that anybody was intimidated by the feds. I said I would be prone to believe the feds if they`re going to go under oath and swear to
something. Dep, hold on. Matt Zarrell, clear up to me where all this information is coming from.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Ok. The information is from a court transcript. There was a bond hearing for one of these guys involved, the
Timothy Taylor, and the state was using this evidence to keep him held on bond on a separate robbery at a McDonald`s and they were showing this as
evidence that Taylor is a danger to the community.
GRACE: So Chloe Carmichael, clinical psychologist, at this point, the parents, the family of this girl, are probably so raw that hearing this, I
mean, what could be worse than living this long without your child, wondering what happened to your child? But then hearing this horrific
scenario? I mean, how does the parent ever get past that?
CHLOE CARMICHAEL, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You`re absolutely right, Nancy. In cases like this, usually finding out some kind of information at least
brings a closure to parents.
But unfortunately, in this case, I would say that these details are so horrific that it is hard to imagine really what the parents could possibly
be grappling with. Especially because this happened when she left without their permission and there are so many details around it. My heart goes out
to them.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Where is Brittanee Drexel who goes missing on spring break? Doug Pardue, investigative reporter, "Post and Courier," I mean, is there a
designated area? Do we know where? Was it a swamp? Was it a bayou? Was it a canal? Where was she allegedly dumped?
PARDUE: It is a fairly large area that borders on the Francis Marion (ph) is in the Francis Marion National Forest and near the Cape Romain National
Wildlife Refuge. This area is very, very isolated and very swampy and marshy and dense forests. And the police tell me that there are at least 30
to 40, what they call alligator pits that could be kind of swampy ponds out ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: So let me ask Dep Kirkland, former prosecutor and author of "Lawyer Games." How do you put a case like this back together, Dep?
KIRKLAND: Difficult. To the point of snitches and jailhouse people and criminals, we get witnesses where we find them and we don`t always have ...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, Dep, put him up, Dep. I know you know this old saying that I used to have to tell juries all the time. When I have to put a witness up
and I have to hold my nose to direct examine him. I would just have to argue, you know what? Sometimes to put the devil in jail you got to go to
hell to get your witnesses and that`s the harsh reality.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, what more can you tell me?
ZARRELL: I can tell you that the FBI in the transcripts, that they have gotten some second-hand information that corroborates this account.
However, the second-hand information is from another inmate in another jail.
GRACE: Joe Scott Morgan, how can we ever prove this thing?
MORGAN: It is very, very difficult to prove this. You know, I started my career in South Louisiana. I worked several cases where bodies have been
disposed of via this methodology. You`re not going to recover any physical remains in these alligator pits. They are a perfect disposal unit, and many
people are aware of this. It doesn`t surprise me that these guys used this methodology to hide her body.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal Efrain Sanchez, Jr., 26, Port Chester, New York. National Defense Service Medal.
Avid reader. Favorite book, "Down These Mean Streets." Studied at Monroe College Queens (ph) University in New York. Mother, Sonia; twin brother,
Nicholas; sister, Jennifer; widow, Janice; daughter, Selena. Efrain Sanchez, Jr., American hero.
And happy birthday to a beautiful friend of the show, Ann Lynch, mother of three, grandmother of six, adores her family, loves to cook, cans figs that
she grows in her own yard, famous for homemade pound cakes and church volunteer. Happy birthday! Mother, grandmother and beautiful Ann Lynch.
Thanks to our guests but especially you for being with us. Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern. And
until then, good night, friend.
[21:00:00]
END
