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Nancy Grace
Murdered Jogger Caught on Video; Four-Year-Old Trapped in Car with Adults Passed Out in Front Seat; Kidnapped Woman Makes Call From Car Trunk. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 12, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A gorgeous young 30-year-old vanishes jogging not far from her own home. In a shocking twist, her
father, out searching for his daughter, finds her body in a swampy marsh not far from the jogging path, evidence she`s sex assaulted and strangled
in broad daylight as eerie journal entry seems she predicts her own death.
Is this the man who brutally assaults and murders Karina Vetrano? Police releasing this sketch of a man leaving that area.
Bombshell tonight. The murdered jogger`s final moments, surveillance video obtained by "Crime Watch Daily" captures Karina Vetrano on her daily run
just before she`s assaulted and brutally murdered in broad daylight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Can startling new surveillance video in the case of a beautiful jogger who was brutally attacked and killed finally
lead to an arrest in the case?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The vermin, the weakling will be caught!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Wasted! That`s an understatement, shocking photos of adults passed out stone cold, overdosed in the front seat of the car as the 4-year-old
tot boy strapped in the car seat in the back looking on. Horrible! And tonight, police respond to criticism and they explain why they shared this
image with the world on Facebook.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a major issue. It`s an epidemic. It`s everywhere. We got people that are dying. We had two overdoses last
night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stigma a lot of times adds to the shame that people with addictions have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A Montana mom of two stops her car in broad daylight just to stretch her legs when she`s knocked unconscious, forced in a car trunk.
The young mom, Rita Maze, comes to, managing to make a desperate call to her husband, family, even police, her body found 320 miles away. The
search for a killer, breaking tonight, video obtained by Dailymail.com emerges of this man using the murdered mom`s credit card. But in the last
hours, a stunning twist. Police say they`re skeptical of Mommy`s story. Why?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. A gorgeous young 30-year-old vanishes jogging not far from her own home. Her own father finds the body. But tonight, bombshell.
We obtain video from "Crime Watch Daily" that captures the jogger, Karina Vetrano`s, last moments alive, when she`s out on her daily run just moments
before she`s brutally murdered in broad daylight.
Take me down, please, and let`s see the video in full. There you see Karina Vetrano, and this is literally, I would say, 10 minutes or less
before she`s murdered. This is from Crimewatchdaily.com. Look at Karina Vetrano. This is just before she is dragged out into these bushes, these
high, swampy marsh and weeds.
In fact, we learn tonight that she actually pulled some of the high grass out by the root, struggling not to get dragged away. This video, while
harrowing and haunting, may reveal something. But what? What can we learn from this? What can we glean? What evidence is there to be found in this
video?
Straight to Chris Hansen with "Crime Watch Daily." Chris, thank you for being with us. Tell me what you make of this video, Chris. What can we
learn from it?
CHRIS HANSEN, "CRIME WATCH DAILY": Well, I think the video, Nancy, shows a young woman, 30 years old, on her daily jog without a care in the world. I
don`t think that she believes anybody is stalking her, anybody`s after her. She`s not worried about any criminals in the neighborhood.
And while it may not have that much probative evidentiary value, what it does do is show us the last few moments of this wonderful young woman`s
life. And I think that brings people`s attention to the case, to the story. And the more eyeballs we draw to it, the more people who may come
forward and say, Hey, I know something. I saw a man who had scratches. I know somebody who was sweaty. I know somebody who was anxious and looking
guilty. And maybe they`ll make that phone call in an effort to get that $300,000 reward.
[20:05:06]GRACE: There`s the dad. There is her retired firefighter dad who insists on going out with the police when his girl doesn`t come home
and searching for her body. He didn`t sit back and wait for answers. And then he is actually one of the searchers that finds Karina`s body.
Matt Zarrell, what more are we learning regarding the condition of her body and clues left behind?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, and clues left behind -- we have -- we know that there was a stem of weeds that was in her
hands. And not only that, Nancy, but she fought for her life not to go into the weeds where she was killed. She was grabbing onto anything she
could as the killer grabbed her, dragged her into the weeds and killed her.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at that video again. Here you see Karina Vetrano, just 30 years old, jogging. This has just emerged and it`s from
Crimewatchdaily.com.
It appears to us that she has in her earbuds -- see the string bouncing along as she runs -- there you go, you see it again -- which probably would
have made it more difficult for her to see -- to hear anything around her or to hear anyone coming up behind her.
But look at the area. There are not a lot of people around. I would be interested in every single car that was parked there. Who does it belong
to? I would be interested in the fact that we are confirming so much about the direction of her path, what she was passing, that she was alive at that
juncture, at that particular location.
It may give me a clue as to where her killer was hiding. Could he have been hiding between cars? Could he be hiding at an overpass or a bridge or
a clump of trees? This video is actually very revealing evidentiary-wise.
Unleash the lawyers, Eric Johnson from Atlanta, Margie Mow from LA. Eric Johnson and Margie, I know the two of you have studied this. Margie, what
do you glean from this?
MARGIE MOW, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Obviously, she wasn`t, like you said, listening or paying attention, and somebody snuck up on her. This doesn`t
seem a particularly dangerous path, and like you pointed out, it`s broad daylight. So you know, somebody must have been lying in wait.
The other interesting fact is that she usually jogs with her father, so it almost feels like somebody knew or had reason to know that she would be on
this path and she would be alone on this day.
GRACE: Well, I think it was just a fluke, wasn`t it, Chris Hansen, that her dad did not go with her that day?
HANSEN: Well, that`s exactly right, Nancy. I spoke with Phil and Cathy (ph) Vetrano for almost the better part of a day a few weeks back, and he
usually ran with her. That was their routine.
On that particular day, he had some back pain and she said, Come on, Dad, let`s go. And he said, No, I`m going to take a pass today. And you know,
45 minutes or an hour went by, and became anxious. And that`s when he started texting her and he got no response, and that`s when called the
police.
GRACE: Now, let me find out, Matt Zarrell -- the police got this video from a home owner?
ZARRELL: Yes, we believe that they got it from someone that had lived in the area. Now, police have combed over 200 surveillance videos from that
area. They actually went door to door to every single house that borders on this park to see if they saw anything, to see if they had video. No
video has revealed any suspicious persons, but police are still combing through those videos right now.
GRACE: Another thing we have learned tonight is police are expanding their DNA search. DNA was taken from her body. We don`t know if it was on it,
in her body, on her clothing, but cops did recover DNA. And what they are doing now, as of tonight, is they are expanding the search of the DNA donor
to familial DNA. In other words, if that person has, for instance, never been arrested and so their DNA is not in the COTUS (ph) data bank, what
about somebody in their family?
To Dr. Panchali Dhar, physician joining us out of New York. Explain to me how familial DNA gives you a different result than regular DNA.
DR. PANCHALI DHAR, PHYSICIAN: Well, familial DNA databases are just expanded databases over COTUS databases. So there`s a lot of people are
contributing their DNA to genealogy Web sites, ancestry Web sites, so the law enforcement is now looking at those databases to see even if there`s a
partial match to anybody in genealogical lineage, they can be investigated. And that`s how DNA databases are being expanded.
[20:10:02]So if you contribute to an ancestry map (ph) database, your DNA could be investigated probably for a link to a crime. It does put you a
little bit at risk for unnecessary investigation, but familial DNA databases are helping solve crimes.
GRACE: Well, another thing -- Eric Johnson and Margie Mow with me. Eric Johnson, another thing that this means is their DNA comparisons are going
to be expanded exponentially, profoundly, because now they`re going to pick up anybody in a database that is related to the killer -- the mom, the dad,
the brother, the cousin, the sister, the aunt. They`re all going to show up if any of those people are in COTUS.
If the killer has a cousin that was arrested and has given DNA for COTUS, they`re going to find that cousin. And that way, they will start looking,
for instance, from that perp (INAUDIBLE) to mom (ph) who has a record, all right? Maybe she was a DUI a while back.
They`re going to find the mom, and then they`re going to say, Oh, ma`am, do you have any sons? Do you have any sons between 18 and 50? And they`re
are going to find those sons and they`re going to find this killer.
I think they may find the killer based on that familial DNA. What do you think?
ERIC JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s definitely possible that they could find somebody do (ph) that, but basically, I think that the killer in
this case is somebody that she knew. So I think if they...
GRACE: Why? You`re just grabbing at straws, or is there a reason you say that?
JOHNSON: The reason I say that is because, given the fact that her father went with her on this path, most likely, there`s someone who knows her
routine because this is an area in which there`s not a lot of crime. So for someone to participate in this kind of crime, I doubt if it was a
stranger to the area. It had to be somebody who knew her whereabouts, who knew the area and also knew her routine, which is one reason why they have
not been able to find many efforts of a struggle.
GRACE: What? No efforts of a struggle? Chris Hansen, there was evidence of a struggle. Her teeth were cracked, for Pete`s sake. She struggled!
HANSEN: Well, I was given unprecedented access to the case and spent a long time with the chief of detectives, who took me inside the case. There
was a tenacious, ferocious struggle. She lost a tooth. She lost her shoes. She was dragged through a puddle. Her sock was wet. She had the
tall grass clutched in her hands when they found the body. This guy really went after her hard.
Now, in terms of whether or not she knew the attacker, there`s no evidence whatsoever to indicate that at this point.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:16:30]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Urgent. Will new video evidence in the mystery of a jogger attacked and killed on her daily run turn the case
around?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Soon, we`re going to have a face to the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) piece of garbage!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s from "Crime Watch Daily," What you were seeing, Karina jogging along. This is, we estimate, within 10 minutes of her assault and
murder in those high grasses along that jogging path.
Unleash the lawyers, Eric Johnson and Margie Mow. Eric Johnson, you said that, clearly, the perpetrator is someone she knows. I don`t know if
you`re clairvoyant, but I disagree with you, as do the police. Why are you saying this is somebody she knew? Are you insinuating the father or the
boyfriend? I mean, where are you going with this?
JOHNSON: Well, I would assume most likely the boyfriend moreso than the father. The first thing is the fact that she had premonitions of something
happening to her in her diary, which may indicate some type of problems that she had going on. If you look at the video, she was -- she was
running...
GRACE: Hold on. Just a moment. Put him up, please. Eric Johnson and Margie Mow -- Liz in the control room, could you please brew a cup of tea
quickly because I want to see if Eric Johnson can actually read the tea leaves, OK, because
JOHNSON: OK.
GRACE: ... police are very clear that this is random. Give him a crystal ball, while you`re at it. All the evidence shows that this is most likely
a random attack. They have interviewed every boyfriend, ex-boyfriend out the yin-yang! So the only thing that was different about this day is that
the dad had an injury of some sort and didn`t run with her. So somebody that knew her would assume she`s running with her dad.
I mean, the reason I`m getting so fired up about this is because your theory really is completely bass-ackwards. And I don`t understand where
you`re coming from, and that can really hinder an investigation.
JOHNSON: Well, not necessarily because the thing is, there`s no evidence that shows that the person went (ph) -- when the person encountered her
that they had the intent to murder her. You know what happened during any kind of conversation. And first off, given that she was running in the
street and they say that she was dragged, there`s no showing that she was dragged across the street. So therefore...
GRACE: I`ve got something for you on that. I want to hear the rest of your thought. Hold on. Therefore what?
JOHNSON: So my opinion would be that there`s a possibility that she may have entered the woods voluntarily with someone, and then the attack took
place.
GRACE: Oh! To Seth Meyers, clinical psychologist. Why is it when a woman is assaulted and murdered, somehow, somebody -- I`m not going to say
defense lawyers -- always suggests she went willingly?
SETH MEYERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Right, right.
GRACE: Why? Just give me...
MEYERS: Yes, I don`t think...
GRACE: Why is it so hard to believe this woman was dragged off? She did not go willingly!
MEYERS: I agree with you completely. You know, one of the lessons I think, though, to take from this is the question, is it safe -- Nancy, I`m
curious about your opinion. Is it safe, do you believe, for a woman ever to go running by herself in a park?
GRACE: Well, yes, I do because I really believe...
MEYERS: But we cover case after case on this show, Nancy. We cover case after case on this show...
GRACE: Do you really want my answer? I really believe, Seth, that for the most part, for the vast majority, people are good. I think people are
good. I think that there are a lot of evil doers out there. But is it safe to go jogging? Yes, I do think it`s safe to go jogging, generally
speaking.
[20:20:22]But in this case -- another thing I wanted to get at, to Matt Zarrell -- I`m going to come back to you, Seth. Matt Zarrell, there is
clear evidence that she was dragged away. It`s clear. She`s holding onto the grass. The stems are in her hand. And Matt, give me the latest about
her wet socks and why a pair of wet socks is so important.
ZARRELL: OK, so just one thing, which is that there were drag marks at the scene also. So those couldn`t have been invented. But the chief of
detectives told "Crime Watch Daily" that Karina`s sock were actually wet when the body was found and that they only way they could have gotten wet
is through a puddle in this path through the park.
So they believe that she had to be dragged when she reached past that puddle when she was on the path to have been dragged off the path.
GRACE: So Chris Hansen, "Crime Watch Daily." Chris, explain the significance of those wet socks. It sounds like not so much, but actually,
it`s a very important piece of evidence.
HANSEN: Well, it explains where the ambush took place because they believe that the assailant came out of the tall grass on one side of the trail,
grabbed her from behind, dragged her through the puddle, making the socks wet, and then he took her earbuds out, threw them one way, and during the
struggle, took one shoe one way, and the other shoe came off. Ones in the high weeds on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:44]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Can startling new surveillance video in the case of a beautiful jogger who was brutally
attacked and killed finally lead to an arrest in the case?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The vermin, the weakling will be caught!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we learn that the parents of Karina Vetrano have managed to raise over $300,000, which they want to award to anyone to help crack
this case -- $300,000! In fact, her father says they will give her killer or her killer`s family this money, almost half a million dollars they have
raised to solve this case.
They can`t put their head on the pillow at night knowing the killer is walking free -- $300,000 that they want to give to the killer if he comes
forward or to his family or friends that will tell the truth. Is that correct, Matt Zarrell?
ZARRELL: It is correct, Nancy. They are desperate for any tips they can get. Right now, police are still combing over 100 tips since the sketch
was released, trying to locate this man that you see right here. They think he`s got information that could lead to this killer.
GRACE: Also, we learn tonight that the family, desperate -- and this is no reflection on the police at all, the police are doing everything they can
think of -- the family now thinking of hiring a private investigator to devote him or herself to finding Karina`s killer. What do we know about
that, Matt?
ZARRELL: Well, we know that they`re working -- one thing is that they can`t give the money to the killer if the killer doesn`t come forward.
They`re going to use that money to hire a private investigator. And another question, Nancy, is when is the FBI going to get involved? We know
they get involved in very high-profile cases. I haven`t heard anything about them being involved here, but we would assume at some point, the FBI
would also get involved in this case.
GRACE: Well, you know, Chris Hansen joining me tonight, "Crime Watch Daily With Chris Hansen" -- there is a similar case in Boston, very similar,
that, like Vetrano has gone unsolved, OK? I`m wondering if the fact that this could -- the killer could be crossing state boundaries would be enough
for the FBI to get involved. Would that give them a peg to hang their hat on?
HANSEN: Well, it would...
GRACE: Or -- go ahead.
HANSEN: It would if they`re related, but they`ve taken a good look at the Massachusetts case, and there is no connection between that case and the
case...
GRACE: Yet. Not yet.
HANSEN: Well...
GRACE: So what about...
HANSEN: It`s different DNA.
GRACE: Yes. What about the fact that cell phones may be used in some capacity? Also regarding the cell phone, Chris, do we know if her cell
phone was recovered?
HANSEN: Yes, the cell phone was recovered. In fact, you talked about DNA earlier, the DNA that was recovered came from beneath Karina`s fingernails,
on the cell phone from the suspect and on her neck from the suspect. The cell phone was recovered. She did text a friend of hers in the minutes
leading up to the attack...
GRACE: Right.
HANSEN: ... just basic stuff about, you know, What do you want to do tonight, you know, just a continuation of texting all day.
GRACE: Hey, Liz, Liz, could you run that video from "Crime Watch Daily" again of Karina as she`s running just before her murder? In my mind,
there`s so much evidence that can be gleaned from this. If you watch it and you think -- tonight, police are desperate, Matt Zarrell, literally
going door to door amassing video and re-interviewing people. Is that right, Matt?
ZARRELL: Yes, that`s right, everything they can. They`re even looking through recent trespassing arrests in the area, asking anyone if they`ve
seen anything.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:30:00] GRACE: Exciting news tonight. Everybody`s favorite magazine, the National Enquirer, featuring an excerpt from new Hailey Dean murder
mystery "Murder in the Courthouse."
All of us here at our show, huge fans of the National Enquirer. They have joined us on so many crusades for justice, the search for missing people,
highlighting unsolved homicides.
Joining us here on the air, well, the National Enquirer and the Hailey Dean sneak peek on the newsstands right now. And reminder, portions of proceeds
from this book "Murder in the Courthouse" go to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
And preorders come with an autographed manuscript page. Thank you, National Enquirer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The drug problem came to a head. They say that`s why they posted that now infamous picture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will force the issue and to get help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it keeps them from seeking help.
GRACE: Wasted. Shocking photos of adults passed out stone cold, overdosed in the front seat of their car as their 4-year-old tot is strapped, trapped
in the car seat in the back seat looking on.
Well, tonight, police explain why they shared this image with the world on Facebook, after they were actually attacked for posting this picture.
[20:35:01] Let`s see the picture in full, Liz. There`s several pictures that they took. There you go, with the adults passed out, and the little
tot just four years old, wide awake in the back seat, as the adults are passed out, we believe on heroin.
To Kyle Peltz on the story, Kyle, what happened?
KYLE PELTZ, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. As you said, horrifying pictures released by an Ohio Police Department, show a woman and
man passed out after allegedly overdosing on heroin. Now cops say they received a call and follow this vehicle which was driving erratically
weaving back and forth driving on the yellow center.
But get this, Nancy, according to police, this car finally skidded to a stop right where a school bus was off loading children and not long after
the driver went unconscious.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, certified child welfare law specialist Ashley Willcott, also with me out of Atlantic, Eric Johnson and
out of L.A., Margie Mow. Do I have Ashley Willcott in the mix as well, because that`s where I want to start with. Ashley, can you believe this?
ASHLEY WILLCOTT, CERTIFIED CHILD WELFARE LAW SPECIALIST: Yes, ma`am. No, no, it`s terrible. And, you know, I really hate to hear they`re getting so
much criticism, because it certainly does let people know that a...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You mean the cops I hope. I hope you`re not talking about the mom and dad...
(CROSSTALK)
WILLCOTT: No, no, that the cops are getting criticism. Because it raises the point of it is an epidemic. And everybody should more uphold that
there`s a 4-year-old in the car of the caretakers while they`re busy od`ing.
GRACE: Liz, play the sound, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stigma a lot of times add to the shame that people with addictions have, and it keeps them from seeking help. You know, people
don`t want to admit that they have a problem. I think police departments should carry Narcan. All of our first responders do in Columbian County who
are medically trained. I think when people are -- when people are revived, they should be given some information about here is where you can go for
help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Let me understand something. I don`t understand this, Eric Johnson. Is that shrink actually saying that when these two come out of
their stupor, the cops should be there to what, give them some warm milk and a brochure when they`ve got the child, the tot trapped in the back seat
while they`re passed out, od`d? What a brochure for what?
ERIC JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t think it would be appropriate in this situation involving a child. I think that she`s more so
revolving with people found on the streets passed out or have problems with narcotics.
GRACE: And opposed to in a car about to slam into a bus? Melissa Neeley anchor joining me from WLW. Did they just skid -- they were weaving all
over the road during their heroin high and they slammed off the road just a few feet away from a school bus that at that moment was off loading little
kids.
MELISSA NEELEY, WLW ANCHOR: That`s right, Nancy. This officer, when he approached the car, he said that the driver was barely able to speak and
then went completely unconscious in front of him.
And apparently, before he passed out, had said he was trying to get help for the grandmother of the child, who was in the passenger seat, because
she was overdosing. So, and this is something that we see every day here, you know, in this area.
GRACE: Well, you know, one thing that I`m curious about, and I want to go to Dr. Panchali Dhar, a physician joining me out of New York. Dr. Dar, I
will never forget as a felony prosecutor. I was into it, the first time I ever saw somebody shooting up heroin for real right in front of me, and I
mean, I had seen, you know, commercials about it, it had been in movies.
But I will never forget that moment that I actually saw the first time any way a guy shooting up heroin. And I still remember that moment. Now for
these two to be passed out on heroin, they had to shoot up in front of the little boy. Let`s see, yes, look, they had to shoot up in front of him.
DHAR: They did. I mean, these people are heavy addicts. They are not beginners. They`re taking large doses of heroin. Enough where they`ve
almost pass out, they could stop breathing, they could die. The tot is psychologically scarred for life. Just being exposed to this.
GRACE: Because I can remember, Dr. Dhar, that moment, that exact moment that I saw somebody for the first time shooting up heroin with a needle.
DHAR: Yes.
GRACE: And I know this child will always remember the day the car crash...
DHAR: Of course.
GRACE: ... and the police showed up.
DHAR: Of course.
GRACE: And in the front seat they were high, passed out OD`d on heroin.
(CROSSTALK)
[20:40:02] DHAR: Exactly.
GRACE: Let`s see faces a drug plea.
DHAR: It`s a hard addiction to get rid of. It`s a very hard addiction to get rid of.
GRACE: Well, another thing, look at this dramatic, the dramatic toll that drugs take on a person. Believe it or not, the face on the left of your
screen is the same person on the far right. These are the same people.
Now normally, if these two were just passed out on drugs, I would said, please, get them help, get them in rehab. But when you drag a 4-year-old
tot into it, Margie Mow, what`s your defense?
MOW: First of all, I have a really big problem with the officers releasing thing picture. It`s an invasion of the people`s privacy.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Put her up.
MOW: Instead of taking photograph the cops should have -- the cops should have been getting them medical attention.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Did you say to these people`s privacy?
MOW: Yes. They have a sense of privacy.
GRACE: They`re on the public street!
MOW: You`re sensationalizing this case.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, you started with privacy.
MOW: They should have given them medical attention and they should have gotten the child out instead of sitting there, snapping pictures to release
on social media.
GRACE: OK. Let`s start at the beginning, because I think Margie Mow took that class in law school. I missed it. But she`s basically -- so,
everything on the wall and maybe something will stick.
You started with privacy. Let me remind to you, OK, when anything happens in plain view, that it is no longer private. That`s for cops if they see a
crime in plain view, there`s no expectation of privacy. This is in public, on a public street, right behind the school bus, with the windows down in
an open car. You don`t expect privacy out on -- do you expect privacy out on the street, Margie, do you? I don`t.
MOW: This is a different situation.
GRACE: Why?
MOW: This is a situation with the cops took the photograph, instead of getting them medical attention.
GRACE: Why is it different?
MOW: This isn`t them getting caught. Because this isn`t them getting caught under a surveillance camera where no you don`t have a right to
privacy. These officers took time away from what they needed to do to take these pictures to sensationalize the case.
GRACE: Ashley, Ashley, can we just address Margie`s first argument of the expectation of privacy, that the suggestion you can go out on i-75 and
shoot up heroin and run off the road, but what, you think because you`re passed out nobody can see you? It`s like an ostrich with your head in the
sand and your butt in the air. Hey, we can see you!
WILLCOTT: Not only that, Nancy, but there was a child in the car. So, even if they thought they had a right to privacy, which I would argue they
absolutely don`t. They`re on a street behind a school bus, for goodness sakes. They still had a child in the car.
And that outweighs any interest that they may think they have in their privacy. They had a child with them and they could have hit the school bus
and killed many children. So, this is -- this is bad, bad, bad on all fronts.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A Montana mother of two stops her car in broad daylight to stretch her legs, when she`s knocked unconscious, forced into a car trunk. The
young mom comes to, and manages to make a desperate call to her husband, family, even police.
That mother`s body found 325 miles away. The search for the killer and breaking tonight, video obtained by the Dailymail.com emerges of the man
using the murdered mom`s credit card. But in the last hours, a stunning twist. Police tonight say they are skeptical of mommy`s story. But why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators (AUDIO GAP) she`s her claims she was kidnapped from this rest up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Between the time Mays was abducted and her body was found, inside the trunk her bank card was used twice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to a warrant used to search the car, May`s purse was still in the front seat with $50 cash inside. And iPad on the
floor of the back seat, things that you would think a kidnapper would steal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Chris Spargo, reporter with the Dailymail.com. Chris, I`m trying to soak in all the problems that police apparently have with the
case. Now suspicion turning on mommy`s own story. Mommy is dead, shot in the back of a truck.
I want to see the picture of the gas station, please. If you could pull up, the gas station video from Dailymail.com. OK, Chris Spargo from
Dailymail.com. What does this show me?
CHRIS SPARGO, DAILYMAIL.COM REPORTER: Well, we see in this video, we see a man who is about 6`5", wearing a hoodie who was going to this gas station
in Washington and using the victim, the dead woman`s credit card to purchase about $25 worth of soda and food.
GRACE: So, why does this picture that you have obtained there, they are at curls, ginger and lobs, why is that throwing a wrench in the timeline? Help
me out.
SPARGO: Well, the only problem is that the location is about 90 miles west, further west of where the car and the body were actually found in
Spokane. So, the timeline on how they would get there versus when they found her when she made these calls is making it difficult for authorities
right now.
GRACE: You know, you`re going to have to be a little more clear than that, Chris Spargo making it difficult. What do you mean?
SPARGO: Well, the body was found about 325 miles west in where she was abducted in Spokane. And she called her family at 10 p.m. to say being
driven in the back of the car that she thought was hers. Now this man who used this credit card use it just before 10 p.m. at this location that was
about a 90 miles due west to Spokane.
Now it`s not impossible for him to have gone this far and then turn around and going back to Spokane. But given the roads around the area, it does
make it hard for them to sort of set up an accurate timeline that would 100 percent prove this man was responsible.
[20:50:06] GRACE: Well, when you say an accurate timeline, I mean, the -- her credit card was used around what, 4.16 at Carl`s and Love`s, correct.
SPARGO: Yes, but first time exactly in Idaho.
GRACE: OK. So, that`s at 4.16. And how far away was that from the body, 90 miles?
SPARGO: No, no, this was the second credit card further west. That first was about 100 miles before they got to Washington.
GRACE: OK. So, 4.16, this guy, let`s see the guy again, using her credit card. The next thing is, using her credit card again at what time, 9.55?
SPARGO: Yes.
GRACE: At 9.55, and how far away was that credit card usage?
SPARGO: That was 90 miles west of where she was ultimately found.
GRACE: OK. So, 90 miles west of her body. But between the 4.16 and the 9.55, how far was that, 9.55 was in Ritzville, Washington. And the 4.16 was
in Kingston. I`m looking at a map right now. You`re saying that the 4:16 obviously was the first one in Kingston. The body was really closer to
Kingston than the 9.55 call.
SPARGO: Exactly.
GRACE: I mean, the 9.55 card usage. Her body was found what time?
SPARGO: At 12.30, after she called at around 10.30.
GRACE: So, she called around 10.30. That is my question. Put them back up again, please. When she called at 10.30, where was she?
SPARGO: They -- the police located the phone to right around the Spokane area at 10.30.
GRACE: Well, I don`t -- I don`t understand the problem with mommy`s story. The last time her credit card was used, 9.55 in Ritzville, Washington,
that`s 90 miles from where the body was found, correct?
SPARGO: That`s correct.
GRACE: OK, I see your problem. I see your problem. That 35 that`s -- can I see the map again, please? The 9.55 card usage, she`s alive, 30 minutes
later at Spokane. Is that what you`re saying?
SPARGO: Thirty minutes later is when the police say that they are talking to her, and they hear a gunshot and then it goes silent.
GRACE: OK. So, why couldn`t that have happened, then he leaves the car and abandons it there in Spokane, why wouldn`t that work, Chris Spargo?
SPARGO: Now that is certainly a possibility and the police have not ruled this out. It`s just that it has been difficult for them to definitively say
that this man is who did this crime.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here is law enforcement forces say Mays was on the phone with the Montana police officer when shots were heard in the
background and then then line went dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police found her purse in the car and the keys still in the ignition. Who shot Rita Mays?
GRACE: Just because her purse is in the car and there`s cash in the car and an iPad does not mean that she was not murdered. I believe her
daughter, that joined me last week and said her mother was incoherent at the time she managed to get a phone call off to her husband.
Stacey Newman, I understand police are stating a cause of death but not a manner of death?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, we heard of the cause of death was a single gunshot wound to the chest and abdomen, but now we`re hearing
they will not tell us manner of death, they calling it pending. So, they`re not ruling out homicide, abduction, or even suicide.
GRACE: You know, Stacey, I find it very hard to believe that this mother would go get in the trunk of a car and shoot herself. And the delay in
giving the manner of death, which is not COD cause of death, we know that`s gunshot wound to the head, instead of ruling it homicide versus a suicide
or accident, I feel that`s very painful to the family.
I mean, if you look at methods and assessment of homicide and suicide, Stacey, you will see -- I think it would be very rare, if it ever happened
that somebody crawls in a car and tried to kills themselves. I don`t believe that.
NEWMAN: And on top of that, we also found out there were two shell casings in the trunk, one next to her left arm, one next to her right arm. But yet
they`re telling us it was a single gunshot wound that was cause of death.
GRACE: Stacey, are you putting it out there that they may be considering there were two gunshots?
NEWMAN: They could be considering that. But we`ve also heard from the daughter, she said she believes that the trunk of the scene they are crime
scene could have been staged to look like the mother killed herself.
GRACE: OK. Yes, yes. I`m not buying the whole suicide thing, because I remember what her daughter told me. We`re on it.
Let`s remember American hero army Private First Class Ramon Villatoro, Jr., just 19, Bakersfield, California. Love softball, cars, dancing, dreamed of
being a doctor. Parents Ramon, Sr. and Margarita, one brother and two sisters, widowed a high school sweetheart Amanda, and a baby he never got
to meet.
Ramon Villatoro, Jr., American hero. And tonight, we remember Georgia friend John McGinn. Moved to Atlanta with $100 in his pocket, put himself
through law school before opening his own practice. Loved his Harley and gospel music. Motto, be a blessing to someone today. Parents John and Ruth,
sisters Dale and Carol, widow Cheryl. Two children, three grandchildren. John McGinn.
Good night, friend. Thank you to our guests, but especially you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock
sharp Eastern.
[21:00:01] And until then. Good night, friend.
END
