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Nancy Grace
Texas Fire Captain Murdered; Indianapolis Fertility Doctor Accused of Using His Own Sperm on Female Patients; Did All-American Schoolboy Murder Parents? Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 13, 2016 - 2:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight. This was no robbery, declare police after a Texas fire captain gunned down dead. Tonight,
police eye his wife and her lover.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Poynter, a veteran firefighter for University Park, was shot in the head on this dirt road. Grief and tragedy came from this
marker placed at the site where Bob Poynter died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was very gentle. He was a big, strong man. He could take care of business.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A local fertility doctor stands accused of using his own sperm on female patients. And tonight a possible 50 siblings asking, Are you my
daddy?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Helping women get pregnant for years. Indianapolis doctor is accused of using his own sperm without his patients` knowledge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s very sickening.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to court records, Dr. Klein (ph) admitted that around 50 times, he used his own sperm whenever he didn`t have a donor
sample available.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Live, Elmore (ph) County. Did an all-American schoolboy murder his own mother and father?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. This was no robbery, declare police after a Texas fire captain gunned down dead. And tonight, police are eying his wife and her
lover.
Straight out to Jeffrey Boney, associate editor with "The Houston Forward Times." Jeff, thank you for being with us. I want to start where the
chief`s body was found and how it was found.
JEFFREY BONEY, "HOUSTON FORWARD TIMES" (via telephone): Well, he was found in a vehicle nearby from where his wife was frantically flagging down
vehicles in the middle of the road around 11:00 PM. People called in to the police, and of course, the police arrived on the scene and saw this
woman frantically, 29-year-old Chacey Poynter, erratically flagging down vehicles.
And as they stopped and approached this woman, they say that Poynter told them that her husband had been shot in his truck. And now, prior to this,
Nancy, officers were told by Chacey that she called her husband to tell her (sic) that her car had been stuck on the dirt road in that area, but that
was not the case.
GRACE: OK, so she calls the husband and says, My car is stuck in the mud, I guess. And she tells police that?
BONEY: Well, she`s telling her husband that initially because that`s why he went out there. But getting back to the scene at hand, officers placed
Chacey into the police car while they went to investigate her claims that her husband had been shot, and that`s when they found Robert Poynter, 47-
year-old Dallas-area University Park fire department captain in the vehicle, had been shot in the head with a single gunshot wound to the head.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing a shot of Robert "Bob" Poynter and his wife, Chacey Tyler (ph) Poynter, and their child.
Now, it`s my understanding, Jeffrey Boney joining me from "Houston Forward Times," that she then tells police that she called him when her car got
stuck or she had car problems. But when the police got there, what was the evidence they find? Where is his body?
BONEY: His body is in the truck. But Nancy, based of a ton of suspicious conflicting information that Chacey was providing them, to the officers,
because there were other officers that showed up from the Texas Department of...
GRACE: Are you talking about her conflicting statements? I`m starting with the physical evidence, and then I`m going to go from there. His body,
Jeffrey Boney -- that`s what I`m trying to talk about. His body, you keep saying, was in the truck. Was it in the front seat? Was it in the
passenger seat? Was it in the truck bed? Was it near the truck? Where was it?
BONEY: Yes, it was inside the vehicle, Nancy, and that`s where the police officers found it with that single gunshot wound to the head.
GRACE: And let me ask you this Jeff. Was the gunshot wound to the back of the head, the side of the head, the temple area? Was it under the chin,
such as often equates to a suicide? Where was the gunshot wound?
BONEY: Well, police have not released that information, Nancy, but it doesn`t look as if it was a suicide.
GRACE: OK.
BONEY: Police officers are stating that this clearly was a homicide.
GRACE: So everybody, for those of you just joining us, a fire captain found dead from one bullet wound to the head.
[20:05:00]Now, at first, there were many theories as to how he was killed. Was it a suicide? Was it a robbery? Now police are actually eying his
wife, the mother of his child, and her lover.
To Justin Freiman on the story. Justin, at one juncture, there was some discussion, Was this a suicide? But from what I`m hearing about the
trajectory path of the bullet, that would have been impossible.
JUSTIN FREIMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Right, Nancy. It actually then started to look more like it might have been a robbery
because she had her Jeep in a ditch, called her husband for help, and he came out there and then moved her Jeep -- her vehicle out of this ditch.
GRACE: Guys, you are seeing a dedicated fire captain, his wife and child. Now it is uncovered that she`s having an affair. But does that a murderer
make? Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was very gentle. He was a big, strong man. He could take care of business. He was just a great man. He was pleasant to
be around. He was enjoyable to be around. He was encouraging. He never was shy about sharing his enthusiasm about his job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So Jeff Boney, associate editor with "The Houston Forward Times," how did we even find out she has a boyfriend? When did that come to light?
BONEY: Well, Nancy, Chacey, according to an arrest warrant affidavit, admitted that she had been having an affair with Michael Garza while she
was married.
GRACE: Hold on, guys. Hold on just a second, Jeff. We`re showing you a shot right there of Michael Garza. And there you see the wife, Chacey.
Unleash the lawyers, Shireen Hormozdi joining me out of Atlanta. Also with me, Troy Slaten, defense attorney out of LA. So let me understand this,
Troy Slaten. She calls her husband. She says, I`m stuck in a ditch. Come help me. He leaves wherever he is and dutifully goes to help his wife.
And what a coincidence. as soon he gets out there, he`s shot in the head and she is not even attacked. She doesn`t have a scratch on her, Troy.
TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: So what? There`s no allegation that she was being attacked, too. I think the issue here is...
GRACE: That`s true.
SLATEN: ... that, you know, this guy who did this...
(CROSSTALK)
SLATEN: ... may have been doing it -- this guy who was this boyfriend that they discovered, may have been doing this to win the affection of this
man`s wife.
GRACE: Hold on a minute. Troy...
(CROSSTALK)
SLATEN: ... with him or not doesn`t make her guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. There`s no allegation that she pulled the trigger here.
GRACE: Troy, what you just said doesn`t make sense, that nobody is accusing her of being attacked. That sentence itself doesn`t make sense.
You don`t accuse someone of being attacked.
SLATEN: You said (INAUDIBLE) bruises on her.
GRACE: What I`m telling you is the circumstantial evidence is that she`s that one that calls him to that location, nobody but her. She walks away
unscathed. There`s nothing wrong her car other than she`s got it eased down into a ditch. And now he`s dead. I mean, Shireen Hormozdi...
SLATEN: That turned out to be true.
GRACE: ... you don`t see the circumstantial value of that?
SHIREEN HORMOZDI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, her conduct after the shooting shows that she didn`t shoot him. She`s waving down the police, she leads
them to the body and she voluntarily surrendered herself.
GRACE: That`s true.
HORMOZDI: I don`t think she did it.
GRACE: You`re right about that, Shireen. She`s got that going for her.
Jeff Boney, is that what police find when they get there? They see the wife flagging them down. That doesn`t sound like a murderer to me, trying
to flag down the police to point them to the dead body.
BONEY: Absolutely, Nancy. I mean, she`s out there erratically flagging down vehicles, and the police have been called, and she doesn`t look like
an individual who appears to have had anything to do with this particular murder of her husband.
GRACE: To Dr. Lee Norman, chief medical officer at the University of Kansas Hospital. Dr. Norman, police are convinced that this was no
suicide. How can you look at the trajectory path of a bullet and determine whether it`s a suicide or a homicide when it comes to a wound inflicted in
the head?
DR. LEE NORMAN, UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS HOSPITAL: Well, there`s a number of pointers that will really help that out. One is, of course, how close is
the barrel of the weapon to the body with burns and that kind of thing, residue? And especially the trajectory that it goes through. Where`s the
entrance and where`s the exit wounds? That should be discernible.
GRACE: Interesting. He`s right, Justin Freiman. When you have a point- blank range shooting, such as you shooting yourself -- when I say point- blank, I mean the gun is within 36 inches of the body. That`s how far typically gunshot residue can travel, sometimes more, sometimes less.
But when you shoot someone directly point-blank, where the gun is touching the head, you will get stippling or burning on the skin, and you know that
the gun was touching the head.
[20:00:14]Now, if there`s no gunshot residue on him, that means that the gun was shot at least 36 inches away, which means he couldn`t have done it.
So I`m sure gunshot residue will play a role in this investigation.
But what`s curious, Justin Freiman, is when the police got there, they immediately said -- no gunshot residue test -- they immediately said, This
is not a suicide. They also said, This is not a robbery. Now, why? What do we know?
Jeff Boney, did he still have his wallet? Did he have credit cards and money, a watch, maybe an iPhone still on him?
BONEY: Again, Nancy, a lot of those logistical details have not been disclosed by law enforcement. However, we do know that he was shot in the
head with a single shot to the head.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:15:04]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beloved fire captain and father is found shot dead inside his car. Now police have arrested his wife for conspiracy to
commit murder after they say she gave suspicious and conflicting information. Police have not released any information about a possible
motive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A beloved fire captain who has risked his life many, many times to save others has been found dead. No one saved him. He was killed by a
single gunshot wound to the head. At first, it was thought to be a random robbery, but police now say this was no robbery. In fact, cops are now
eying his wife and her boyfriend.
Straight back out to Jeffrey Boney, associated editor with "The Houston Forward Times." Now, we know that she gave, as police say, conflicting
statements. What conflicting statements?
BONEY: Well, she -- we don`t know all of the details of what they consider to be conflicting. But once all of the investigators found out these
statements and this information was conflicting, they immediately found that there was another person, a third person that may have been at the
scene at the time of the incident.
GRACE: Because you know -- you know, Justin Freiman, if he rolled up and he sees her with another man, I mean, he would probably have acted
completely differently. So if the boyfriend had been there, Justin, he had to be lying in wait. Would you agree with that, Justin?
FREIMAN: That`s right, Nancy, he had to have been lying in wait because the reports were just of her yelling and screaming in the street when the
cops came, not of another man there.
GRACE: That`s a good point. Justin, that`s a good point. So if the other man had been there, he would have had to have been hiding at the time she
was trying to flag down police.
Jeff Boney, associate editor, "Houston Forward Times," what can you tell us about any other of her movements the day her husband was shot dead? What
else do we know about that day?
BONEY: Well, Nancy, what we know is this (INAUDIBLE) may have been very well planned and well orchestrated in that prior to his murder, her
husband`s murder, she was actually at the residence of Michael Garza and they had had sex.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait. What?
BONEY: They had sex prior to this murderous ambush on her husband.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Shireen Hormozdi, Atlanta, Troy Slaten, LA. Troy Slaten, you still want to tell me there`s no connection here? She`s
at the lover`s house that day, in bed, and within a couple of hours, husband is lured out to an obscure and rural area under the guise of car
trouble. The husband, the dutiful husband, comes to help his wife out, and he`s gunned down dead. I mean, the sheets...
SLATEN: I think this information...
GRACE: The bed sheets are still warm, Slaten.
SLATEN: Nancy, the information that we just learned points even more to a defense. I mean, this guy has guns out. This -- he could have been doing
this in order to have sex with her. He could have...
GRACE: Who could have been doing what?
SLATEN: This guy, Garza, may have been the whole mastermind and put her, coerced her into luring her husband so that way, he could have her to
himself.
GRACE: Troy, how do you even put that out there? I mean, how can you say that with a straight face? Because you know coercion is when you are in
fear of your own life. Has to be to that degree. She could flag down police after her husband`s dead as part of...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Why not flag them down before he`s dead?
SLATEN: Being scared for your life when this person is capable of committing murder? I think she may very well have been afraid for her
life.
GRACE: OK. Let me understand this. Shireen Hormozdi, so you guys are trying convince me that she was afraid for her own life from the guy that
she just sprang out of bed with, that he`s going to kill her now if she doesn`t take part in killing her husband?
HORMOZDI: If she was in on it, why flag down help? Why not just leave the scene and remove herself from this scenario?
GRACE: Because he`s in her car and there`s evidence from her cellphone that she called him. And he may have told people, Oh, my wife has car
trouble. I`m going out to the scene. Maybe it`s because of that.
HORMOZDI: If she was busy having sex, she didn`t have time to plan this murder (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Oh, OK. You think sex lasts how long?
SLATEN: Maybe the sex wasn`t consensual, Nancy.
GRACE: Let`s bring a little -- let`s put it back in the middle of the road, OK? Let me get you out of the weeds. Jeff Boney, what else do we
know?
BONEY: Well, Chacey told police, Nancy, that she didn`t want her husband dead, that she only wanted him to hurt the way he made her hurt because...
[20:20:02]GRACE: Wait. What? She didn`t want -- I`ve got to bring the lawyers back, Slaten and Hormozdi. She actually tells police, I didn`t
want to kill him, I just wanted to hurt him badly.
HORMOZDI: She could have been under the duress of the boyfriend. He could have been leading this whole situation.
GRACE: What else did she say, Jeff Boney?
BONEY: She admitted to investigators, Nancy, that she and Michael Garza were always talking about the fact that her husband had been physically and
emotionally abusing her and that her husband had recently filed for divorce and told her that she wouldn`t be able to see her daughter anymore.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dallas-area fire captain Bob Poynter is found dead inside his car with a single gunshot wound. Witnesses saw his wife trying
to stop cars near an intersection, and when officers arrived on the scene, she told them her husband had been shot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Justin Freiman, also on the story, along with Jeffrey Boney. Justin, how old is the child?
[20:25:04]FREIMAN: The child is just was starting 1st grade, Nancy.
GRACE: Oh, no. So they`re going to go -- it`s a little girl, right?
FREIMAN: Yes.
GRACE: So she`s going to go through life without her father, and someday now her mother`s charged in his shooting.
Justin let`s make some sense. I hear what the lawyers are saying, but I`m not buying it. Tell me exactly what we know as of tonight. What I know is
there`s a little girl who`s probably about 5 or 6 years old who`s going to go her whole life without her father. And you know, I`ve just learned,
Justin, as you know, how much that means now that I don`t have my father anymore, what it means to have your father. And I`m just stunned that
someone could be so callous to their child to rob them of having that parent.
But tell me exactly what we know evidentiary-wise, Justin.
FREIMAN: Nancy, what we know is mostly based on what the arrest documents tell us. And that is that she herself, the wife herself, has told police
that she and this lover of hers were in on this plan to hurt her husband. She says now that she didn`t mean for him to be killed. But they planned
it together.
GRACE: To Dr. Chloe Carmichael, clinical psychologist joining me out of New York. Dr. Carmichael, of course, I`m happy with my twins and my family
and my husband. But when I look back on my childhood, those were some of the most pure and idyllic and happy times I could even imagine. And when
you think about robbing a child of that -- it`s so profane to rob a child for the rest their life.
I mean, what does do it to a child`s psyche to lose one parent, much less two, say before the age of 10?
CHLOE CARMICHAEL, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it`s completely earth- shattering, Nancy, especially in these types of circumstances. You`re absolutely right. For a little girl to lose her father to murder is a
terrible tragedy in itself. And then to find out that, in fact, your mother, who normally teaches you right and wrong, is the person who
literally pulled or had the trigger pulled would be completely disorienting. It will be very difficult for this little girl to learn to
trust.
GRACE: Well, Dr. Chloe, I`ve read studies about -- even during the time I was prosecuting, trying to understand the effect this had on children for a
parent to die, much less under violent circumstances like this.
But I`ve read a lot of statistics and articles that say that when a child loses a parent before the age of 10, they really haven`t assimilated love
yet. They -- it`s not ingrained in them, and they actually can be snake- bit for the rest of their life because they haven`t developed to a point where they can go without the parent. If they lose one or two parents
before a certain age, they`re forever marred.
CARMICHAEL: Well, it`s certainly true, of course, that they haven`t yet developed the sense of security that your parents ultimately give you. And
in this case, they never really will have that total security. I`d be careful personally about phrases like "snake bit" because we don`t want to
have her internalize the idea that she can never move forward because it is a miraculous...
GRACE: Well, frankly, Dr. Carmichael, she`s only 3, OK? So I doubt she`s watching a crime show tonight.
CARMICHAEL: No.
GRACE: But I pray that she`s not. I don`t see how -- I mean, as a victim of violent crime, I would go out on a limb and say you never really
recover. You learn to go on, but there`s no such thing as closure for violent crime victims, and I speak that from knowing how they feel.
Jeffrey Boney, what exactly did she tell police? I want to understand what she told them.
BONEY: She also told them, Nancy, that Mr. Garza told her that he was a shot caller and that he (INAUDIBLE) to have anyone killed if he wanted to
have them killed. And she told police that, again, she didn`t want to have her husband killed, but she only wanted to scare him a little bit. And of
course, she got more than what she wished for in this case. And the whole thing -- she also said, Nancy, was that she screamed and called 911 before
Michael Garza took her phone, hung it up and threw it in the mud.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:30:00.000] GRACE: Exciting news, everybody. The favorite magazine, National Enquirer featured an excerpt from our new Hailey Dean mystery,
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remember, portions of proceeds from this book, "Murder in the Courthouse" go to the National Center for Missing and Exploited children.
Pre-orders come with an autographed manuscript page. Thank you, National Enquirer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was of lying about his medical practices.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was unethical, what did he.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Cline provided this written level. "At no time did I ever use my own sample for insemination." DNA proves that simply wasn`t
honest."
[20:35:06] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That we will never, ever know the complete truth as to how many siblings we have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A local fertility doctor stands accused of using his own sperm on female patients. And tonight, a possible 50 siblings are asking, are you my
dad?
Straight out the Angela Ganote, reporter with CNN affiliate, WXIN who broke the story. Angela, I`m just overwhelmed. Fifty times we think he did this?
How did you manage to break the story? What happened?
ANGELA GANOTE, CNN AFFILIATE WXIN REPORTER: Well, here`s what happened. It was basically February of 2015 when I got a Facebook response sent to me
directly that said, "Angela, can you help us? We have information that we believe a local doctor is our father. He was the doctor that inseminated
our mothers. Can you please help us? No one will listen to us."
And they gave me a bunch of information and evidence and facts and that`s how it started.
GRACE: So, you just get a random Facebook message saying we think this has happened. Nobody will listen to us. So, what was the evidence that they had
accumulated?
GANOTE: They had gone through many, many months of research. And they had gone on several DNA web sites. These were donor children. Some that just
found out that their fathers were not their dads. So, they were for information about who they were at medical records.
Other siblings knew from the time that they could remember that they were a donor child. So, they had lots of questions. So, they started putting their
information into web sites like 23 and me, et cetera.
And all of a sudden they start getting hits that I`m related to you. You are my sibling. You are a sister. And all of a sudden they find at least
eight people are related to them. So, all of a sudden, red flags went up. How could this happen?
GRACE: Now did they know they were donor children?
GANOTE: Some of them did. Some of them didn`t. And so, they started to ask these questions. And when they did that, they got information. They went to
the doctor. One of them went to the doctor 13 years ago trying to get information about their medical records.
They heard things like, I used medical students in training. I used dentists. I used information like that to inseminate them. But when they
heard that there were medical students doing this, they said, well, there are eight of us who are about 10 years apart. Which medical student or what
medical student would be available for that many years to donate his sperm that often and red flags started going up all over the place.
GRACE: So, you go -- what`s the site that we`re going on, Angela?
GANOTE: There are several different ones. One of them that a lot of people realized they recognize, 23 and me.com. That`s one of them. There are
different ones that basically you take a swab and you do your DNA. You put this into a site, a donor site. And then donors all over the world they can
see who is related to who. They get a match to show what percentage would they be related to someone else. And these folks found out that they were,
they believe that they have the same paternal father.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was unethical, what he did. He was telling his patients one thing and doing another.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That woman who we are not identifying said 77-year- old Dr. Donald Cline seen here leave in court is her biological father.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is sickening to think that, you know, he ran his practice up until the time he was around 70 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know every sibling that I have. I don`t think that is ever going to be a possibility.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want validation. I want to find out as much truth as I can, but I know deep down that we will never, ever know the
complete truth as to how many siblings we have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It is overwhelming, because Angela Ganote, reporter with WXIN who broke the story, these siblings are never going to know the whole truth.
Because it`s my belief, Angela, when he said, oh, I probably did it 50 times, that means he did it 100 times. That`s just a guess.
But if he will admit to that much, how much more could there be? So, these people happened to go on 23 and me among other sites. Now, to find their
siblings, did those people, the siblings, did they have to also go on that web site or a similar web site?
GANOTE: Absolutely. So, when they uploaded their information, that you start getting hits. And it shows that you are related. That`s basically
that`s what the interesting thing is here.
[20:39:57] When I talked to Dr. Cline more than a year ago for the first time via e-mail. And then, most recently just a couple of months ago, he
was talking about he never thought anything like this could happen. Now saying that he didn`t think he could get caught. But knowing at that time
he never knew that this kind of thing would happen.
He thought that no one would ever know that he did what he did. The question still is for the siblings like you mentioned, how many of them are
there? Because he has lied. He lied to me. A year ago, more than a year ago, he told me absolutely never did it.
He accused them of libel. And basically told them, if they do the same his nick name that they`d better watch out. And basically the same thing to me.
But then, after so much, you know, evidence came forth, we knew that it was true. And finally, I said, you need to come clean with me, you need to be
honest.
He has said that it was none. Then he said maybe just the eight. Then he said maybe a dozen. Then he said maybe as many as 50. So, that`s where it
lies. They don`t know how many. They say when they walk into a grocery store, they look at someone that they think might look like them.
They have no idea if they`re related to them and what`s concerning to them, if they have children now themselves. Some of them are of dating age. And
they wonder, are they dating relatives? Are they dating cousins? And it`s really a concern for them.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Helping women get pregnant for years. Indianapolis doctor is accused of using his own sperm without his patients` knowledge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s very sickening.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to court records, Dr. Cline admitted that around 50 time he used his own sperm whenever he didn`t have a donor sample
available.
GRACE: Joining me right now, Tim DeLaney, deputy prosecutor at Marion County Prosecutor`s Office. Tim, thank you so much for being with us. I
remember being completely inundated with murders, child molestations, arsons, dope dealers.
I mean, 150 new indictments a week would go. Well, twice a week would go down. And to suddenly have a case like this land on your table, where
somebody is going, well, I think I saw someone and so is my sister. It doesn`t really -- it would not have really struck me at the beginning that
a crime had taken place.
So, Tim DeLaney, how did you first hear about the case, and when did you realize this actually is a crime. They`re right.
TIM DELANEY, MARION COUNTY DEPUTY PROSECUTOR: Well, thank you. Yes, the case was initially referred to our office actually by your previous guest,
Angela Ganote had contacted our office, which put on it our radar. It was then referred to my division, which is the Grand Jury division which is set
up for the purposes of investigating these kinds of cases.
Our investigation typically takes months and sometimes years to complete. It was referred to Sergeant Walker, Carmen Walker of the Marion County
Sheriff`s Office.
GRACE: Right.
DELANEY: And we began digging into it. And once we determined that Dr. Cline was in fact the biological father...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Oh, my stars.
DELANEY: ... of the two individuals named in the charging information.
GRACE: With me is Tim DeLaney, the prosecutor of Marion County who took this case on not really understanding at the beginning what he had. But he
knows tonight.
Angela Ganote with me from WXIN, how many children, Angela -- Angela is the one that broke the story and kept chasing the story until she finally had
evidence to take to the district attorney. How many children do you think he has?
GANOTE: That is the question. Since this story started airing, I`ve had another three people say "can I please get tested?" That`s the newest piece
we`re working on. Will the prosecutor help us. We`ve reached out to Dr. Cline`s attorney, who is going to pay for it and will there be many more
that come forward now that the story is out there? We have no idea and the siblings have no idea how many brothers and sisters they have.
GRACE: And what about the women, Angela Ganote? I mean, women that undergo IBF, or artificial insemination or get donors. It happens all the time.
Donor eggs, donor sperm. And you have to really trust your doctor during all of this to find out that they were violated in this way. What did they
have to say, Angela?
GANOTE: It`s such a hard thing to talk about because a lot of these moms, I mean, this was happening in the late `70s, and there is a lot of -- there
is a lot of secrecy. A lot of times they didn`t share this with their children until just a few years ago. So, they do feel that.
They feel like this was obviously very unethical. They want justice. The siblings for sure want justice. That`s why they came to me because they
didn`t feel like anyone was listening. This took more than a year and a half really to get what they felt was anyone to even validate what they
were going through. And there`s much more ahead to try to figure this put.
GRACE: And that was validated by Tim DeLaney. Also with me tonight, board certified fertility physician at the Center for Fertility and Gynecology,
Dr. Vuk Jovanovic. Doctor, thank you so much for being with us. I want to hear your reaction to this. I`m overwhelmed.
VUK JOVANOVIC, CENTER FOR FERTILITY AND GYNECOLOGY CERTIFIED PHYSICIAN: Well, definitely. I feel the same way as most of your viewers probably
feel. It`s very saddening thing. And what I basically said is that there was obviously fraud, alleged fraud on the parents of these victims.
But now that the children actually have to go through all of this and not be able to find the truth right away. I think that`s definitely one of the
things that is ongoing and probably creates even more victims in this case.
GRACE: How exactly does the process work?
JOVANOVIC: Well, we have two ways that we can fertilize the egg. One way is to do in a laboratory and then place the embryo back. That`s the IBF
process. Now what was done in this case was that the sperm was only processed in the laboratory and then injected into the womb of the womb
women who were patients of Dr. Cline.
[20:50:08] So, that was -- but doing it both ways, donor sperm can be utilized.
GRACE: Right.
JOVANOVIC: So, it`s the key pretty much to make sure that the donor sperm comes really from the donor that the patient expects to it come from.
GRACE: Back to Angela Ganote with WXIN, Angela, has the doctor in this case, Dr. Donald Cline, spoken to his biological children? And what did he
say?
GANOTE: You know, I wasn`t there obviously for that conversation, I don`t know. But I know that the story changed back and forth a little bit. I do
know that Donald Cline has four biological children and they have met with the eight siblings.
Dr. Cline has met with the eight siblings. They have had a discussion and talks about that. Dr. Cline has also said, though that I don`t feel any
connection to you. He said that this is different from a man and a woman. He said, I donated my sperm because these moms wanted a child but I feel no
connection to you whatsoever.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live, Elmore County. Did an all-American school boy murder his mom and dad?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Transfer fired after an Elmore County deputy visited the home at the request of parents Mike and April Holton. Sheriff Franklin
said the parents were upset after finding drugs left over from a party thrown by their 17-year-old son Jesse Holton.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Defensive from what we understand on Mrs. Holton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Caleb Colquitt with WLWI talk show host. Caleb, thank you for being with us. You know, I`ve been going through all of the photos of this school
boy with his mom and his dad, all of the selfies they would take together, all the places they had been and the things they did. I don`t understand
it. Why is he suspected of murdering his mother and father?
CALEB COLQUITT, WLWI TALK RADIO HOST: Well, the main reason that he is suspected is because the story that he told police officers after they came
and apprehended him and found his parents shot dead on the bed, is because it just didn`t line up with the facts.
Because for example, with Mike Holton, the forensics came back and said there`s just absolutely no way that his gunshot wounds could be self-
inflicted. And while the report hasn`t come back in yet with April Holton, because she passed more recently than her husband, she actually had a
defensive wound where one of the round spires actually passed through her fingers.
So, it`s very unlikely that she could have injured herself as well. And there is no other suspects that he didn`t go in the house after Jesse
Holton insisted that he didn`t go into the house after he left, that he didn`t suspect anyone did.
So, really, he is the only person there that police believe at least right now they suspect could have done it.
GRACE: Joining me right now in addition to Caleb Colquitt, Sheriff Bill Franklin with the Elmore County Sheriff`s Office. Sheriff, thank you for
being with us.
BILL FRANKLIN, ELMORE COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE OFFICER: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Sheriff, why were deputies originally called to the home?
FRANKLIN: I think Mr. Holton had some issues with his son, from what we understand he had a history of drug abuse in the last year or two. And this
had been a party with some other kids the night before and I think pretty much, he may have quote, unquote trashed the house and there were remnants
of drugs, activity, and trash that things of that nature that went out there.
And he just wanted to have a deputy come out there and take a report so he could come down on Monday and file a petition on the job even out this.
GRACE: You know, I`m taking looks right now of this young boy, Jesse Mason Holton. He is just a teen boy. And to think that he is now charged in the
murder of his mother and father. Sheriff Bill Franklin, the sheriff there in Elmore County, Sheriff, I understand that there was marijuana
paraphernalia. Is that the drug we`re talking about?
FRANKLIN: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Wow, all of this over pot. I mean, he must have had a longstanding pot addiction to go haywire like this when his parents tried to stop him.
So, Sheriff, is Caleb Colquitt correct that the mom had a defensive wound in her hand? She couldn`t have killed herself if she was trying to ward off
a gunshot wound, Sheriff.
FRANKLIN: Yes. We`re waiting on the forensic report to come back but the initial findings were that she did have wound had a defensive wounded one
of the fingers where the gunshot had apparently passed through the finger into the head area. So, that is correct.
GRACE: And, Sheriff, has he shown any remorse at all?
FRANKLIN: Ma`am, to be quite honest (Inaudible) pretty much showing no emotion. He did not seem to ask many questions about his mother and daddy.
He did tell us that he was quote, unquote, "a pot head." And that as long as he had his medication for marijuana, that he would not show signs of
aggression. But that if he had did not get that, that he would get agitated very easily.
GRACE: Everyone let`s stop and remember American hero. Army Specialist Jacques Brunson, 30, America`s Georgia. Purple Heart. national Defense
Service medal. Loved video games. Children, Kayla and Jake. Jacques "Gust" Brunson, American hero.
Thanks to our guest but as always to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern.
[21:00:00] And until then, good night, friend.
END
