Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Unarmed Man Shot Dead by Tulsa Police; Texas Women`s University Co- Ed Found Murdered in Nearby Park; Did Stepfather Abduct Children?; Local Pastor Dates 8-Year-Old Girl. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 21, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Tulsa. Devastating dashcam video captures the moment an unarmed man, a star in the local
church choir, is shot dead by police after they taser him, even though he`s got his hands up in the air. Why? This followed by a night of violence
over another cop shooting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody`s left their vehicle running in the middle of the street with the doors wide open.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) subject won`t show me his hands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, he`s got his hands up there for her now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That looks like a bad dude, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That big, bad dude was my twin brother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will achieve justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A Texas women`s university co-ed found murdered and dismembered in a local park, her remains inside a plastic kiddy pool. Tonight, we search
for clues left behind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, everyone. My name is Jacqueline Vandergrift (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police believe Vandergrift and Ryan (ph) met for the first time at a bar on Denton (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blue plastic kiddy pool, where police say they found the remains of Jacqueline Vandergrift in a park near Lake Grapevine (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As far as my career aspirations go, right now, I`m most interested in corporate wellness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That from YouTube.
Tonight, shocking reports, a local pastor begins, quote, "dating" an 8- year-old little girl, quote, "marries" her and consummates the marriage. How did a congregation stand by and let this happen right here in America?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. To Tulsa. Devastating dashcam video captures the moment an unarmed man -- absolutely known to be unarmed -- a star in the
local church choir, is shot dead by a lady police officer after he`s been tasered, even though the guy has his hands up high in the air. Why? This
followed by a night of violence over another cop shooting.
You`re seeing the video as it was seen by a helicopter. I want you -- why do they have a gun pointed at him? He`s just standing there! OK, listen,
maybe there`s more to this than I know right now. I want you to hear the helicopter transcript. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) I`ve got a subject who won`t show me his hands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, Betty Joe (ph), where are you at? Well, he`s got his hands up there for her now. I`m going to hit the recorder.
This guy`s still walking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) following commands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time for a taser, I think.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got a feeling that`s about to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That looks like a bad dude, too. Must be on something.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which way are they facing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police one. They`re facing westbound. I think he may have just been tasered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Why does he look like a "bad dude?" How can they tell he is a bad dude from up in the air? Straight out to CNN correspondent joining us from
Tulsa, Anna Cabrera. Anna, thank you for being with us. Anna, he`s got his hands up in the air. What went wrong? He`s dead!
ANNA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are a lot of questions that remain, obviously, in this case, Nancy. I can tell you that we did speak
with the officer`s attorney, who tells us there`s a lot that you don`t see on the video, the interaction that she had with Terence Crutcher prior to
her opening fire, prior to the helicopter arriving on the scene and the other colleagues of hers coming to the scene, as well.
He tells us that she actually happened upon the vehicle and Crutcher when she was en route to another call. She was responding to a separate
domestic violence call when she sees him in the road, doesn`t know what`s happening, sees a vehicle somewhere else further down the road, checks out
the vehicle and then turns and sees Terence Crutcher walking toward her.
The attorney for the officer tells us that Terence Crutcher, multiple times refused to answer her questions about what was going on, that he also
refused to obey commands and continued to put hands in his pocket along the way, when she was asking him to keep his hands out of that pockets, and
that when he was walking back to the vehicle, she multiple times told him to stop walking.
[20:05:00]Now, she opened fire, according to the attorney, when he reached inside the vehicle. She thought he was going for a weapon, her attorney
says, and that`s why she opened fire, delivering that fatal blow, Nancy.
GRACE: Anna Cabrera, CNN correspondent joining me there live on the scene. But Anna, it`s my understanding he couldn`t possibly have reached inside
the vehicle because the window was rolled up.
CABRERA: Well, when you look at the window, that`s exactly what the attorneys for Terence Crutcher`s family are saying. You look at the video,
it appears that after he is shot, you can actually see blood on the window of the vehicle, which would obviously indicate that the window would be
rolled up.
However, we talked to the attorney for Officer Betty Shelby, who tells us that he stands by her account that when they got to the vehicle, Terence
Crutcher at some point tried to reach in the window. He says it`s possible that the window was partially rolled down, perhaps. He says this is
something that will wash out in the investigation, and he urges people to withhold judgment. But again, that is her version of the story, Nancy.
GRACE: Anna Cabrera joining me on the scene. Anna, when we`re looking at a closeup shot of it, it looks as if you can actually see the reflection of
the surroundings in the window, which means he was not reaching in, I mean, if that photo is accurate. But I mean, it looks like, Anna, that he`s got
his hands up in the air.
CABRERA: You don`t see exactly what he`s doing with his hands at the moment that the officer opens fire. I took a look at the helicopter video.
I`ve taken a look at the dashcamera video, as well, that the police released. And at the moment that the officer opens fire, you see the
helicopter video circling around.
You do see much of the moments right before she opens fire. You see he has his hands in the air. You see him arrive at the side of the vehicle. At
one point it looks like maybe one of his hands goes down slightly. But then the helicopter turns around, comes around the other side of the
vehicle, so the vehicle is in between the camera and Terence Crutcher. The next thing you see, he falls to the ground.
So there are still questions about exactly what he was doing at that moment, and that, of course, is going to be in the hands of the
investigators to determine what the facts are in the case. They`ll use the video, certainly, as a big part of that evidence. They`ve also been
processing the scene and have also done interviews with the officers, not only the Officer Shelby who opened fire, but the three others who were
standing next to her, Nancy.
GRACE: Let`s follow along with Anna Cabrera and take a look at the dashcam video she`s talking about. Roll it, please, Justin.
Warning, this is graphic video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:10:00]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) been tasered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) shots fired. We have on suspect down (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Oh, my stars! Let me warn you as we play this again, that is very graphic video.
Anna Cabrera, CNN correspondent joining us there in Tulsa. Anna, so let me understand this. We hear them say the guy has just been tasered, and then
he gets shot dead after he`s been tasered?
CABRERA: According to the police and according to the attorney for the officer who opened fire, it was simultaneous, that the officer, Shelby,
shot her gun at the same time her fellow officer, who had responded in a backup capacity, shot his taser. So yes, the police chief, Chuck Jordan,
confirmed that he was tasered and shot, Nancy.
GRACE: At the same exact moment, right?
CABRERA: That`s what the story is. That`s all the information we have out here. Investigators are working to determine the facts of the case. I`m
reporting what we`re learning from police, as well as what the attorney is telling us who represents Officer Shelby.
GRACE: Gotcha. Gotcha. Hold on. Let`s follow up on what Anna is reporting from the field. I want to see that dashcam video one more time
because it seems to me that they say he`s tasered, then shots the ring out. Let`s listen.
Warning, this is graphic video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which way are they facing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re facing westbound (INAUDIBLE) He`s just been tasered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) we have shots fired. We have one suspect down (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me in the field, Anna Cabrera. Also with me, Shelby Travis, program director KFAQ. Shelby, thank you for being with us. If
that video is to be believed, it looks very much like he is tasered, and after they report he`s tasered, then you hear the shot and it`s "Shots
fired."
And is it True, Shelby Travis, that the officer, Betty Shelby, had a taser on her?
SHELBY TRAVIS, KFAQ (via telephone): We don`t know for sure if actually she did. All we know is she didn`t draw it. We do know that all Tulsa
police officers were issued tasers recently as part of grant.
GRACE: So Anna Cabrera, CNN correspondent joining me in Tulsa, did she have a taser on her person, Officer Shelby?
CABRERA: Yes, I`m told she did have her taser on her, but she did not deploy it. Instead, she drew her gun and then she opened fire when she
felt deadly threat, according to her attorney, Scott Wood.
Now, I asked why did she chose to use lethal force in this case, instead of the taser, especially we do know that her colleague fired a taser instead.
He tells me she was following police protocol. Because she was the first officer to arrive on scene, she assessed the situation, and she was there
long before these other officers came up, as well.
According to her attorney, she calls for backup during her encounter with Terence Crutcher prior to the police video and what happens on that, what
you see happen. Apparently, she tells over the radio that this man is not obeying her commands, she needs backup. She draws her gun, thinking it`s
possible he may have a weapon.
When the backup arrives, Officer Turnbough, who is the person who fired the taser, we`re told, he pulls out a taser to use as a possible option as
they`re dealing with this man, not knowing what his intentions are. Now, this is according to the attorney, who is also a former police officer, as
to why there was the taser, as well as the gun used in this incident.
GRACE: So Anna -- Anna Cabrera, why did the whole scenario unfold? Why was the victim on the road, outside of his vehicle? Why was he there?
CABRERA: We don`t know why he was there. That is the big question. The family believes his vehicle may have broken down. That`s Terence
Crutcher`s family.
Now, we do know that there were 911 calls that came in and people who reported seeing the vehicle with the doors open and seeing somebody outside
the vehicle. One of those 911 calls said that the person outside the vehicle, who we now know to be Terence Crutcher, made a comment about
perhaps the vehicle`s going to blow. That is recorded on dispatch calls, 911 calls, to investigators and to the emergency officials.
Now, when Officer Shelby came upon the scene, she wasn`t responding to those 911 calls. She was responding to a separate incident, a domestic
violence call, we`re told, and she just happened to run in to Terence Crutcher on the road, outside his vehicle, not knowing what he was doing.
We`re told she continued further up the road and that`s when she came upon the vehicle, which was still running, we are told, and she did an
inspection and tried to gather more information. and then the rest is history. She encounters Crutcher again, and everything plays out that
we`ve seen on the video, ending in him being shot and killed, Nancy.
GRACE: Anna Cabrera joining us. Matt Zarrell, why was he out there? What do the 911 calls reveal? Why was he even there?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: According to the 911 calls, the car had been abandoned with the windows open, and a witness told 911 that they
actually thought the person on scene might be smoking something and that the car might explode.
GRACE: I understand that he was just having car trouble, Matt.
ZARRELL: The family says that he was just having car trouble, correct.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:18]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have shots fired. We have one suspect down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators claim officers tased, then shot Crutcher after they said he reached inside his SUV.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy is still walking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time for a taser, I think.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) feeling that`s about to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That looks like a bad dude, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Why did this choir member get shot dead? Now, reports are that he was allegedly having car trouble, and that`s why he got out of the car. Is
that true? Listen to this 911 call.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911, police, fire or medical.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police.
911 OPERATOR: What`s the address of your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s off of 36th Street and Lewis.
911 OPERATOR: Is it on Lewis or is it on 36th Street?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it`s actually an abandoned vehicle. Somebody left their vehicle running in the middle of the street with the doors wide
open.
911 OPERATOR: OK. On Lewis or on 36th?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s on 36th Street.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s on the west side of Lewis.
911 OPERATOR: On the west side of Lewis on 36th Street?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: That is not a really good idea to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I mean, the doors are open. The vehicle is still running. It`s an SUV.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s right in the middle of the street. It`s blocking traffic.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And so what color SUV?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tan.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Tan. And there`s nobody around it?
[20:20:00]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a guy running from it. He (INAUDIBLE) it was going to blow up. I think he was smoking something.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, OK!
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) I was, like, Do you need help? And he was, like, Come here. Come here. And I said, Well, what`s going on? And
he`s, like, Come here. Come here. I think it`s going to blow up. I`m, like, No, I`m out.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I started (INAUDIBLE) he took off running.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, wow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I think he`s smoking something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me now from "The Frontier," reporter Dylan Goforth. Dylan there in Tulsa, thank you for being with us. Explain to me what you have
learned about what happened, what ended in a deadly shooting of an unarmed man. And from what I`m hearing on the dashcam, he was tasered already
before he was shot, Dylan.
DYLAN GOFORTH, "THE FRONTIER" (via telephone): Right. It was really, I mean, a strange incident to have both of those things happen at the same
time, you know, to be tased and then to be, you know, either simultaneously or right after shot. I mean, I think that`s a problem for investigators
because if one officer did not feel like he needed to use lethal force, how can you argue that one did?
GRACE: You know, I don`t understand, Shelby Travis, why she, the officer, Betty Shelby, says she thought he was on PCP. What did he do that made her
say that before she shot him? Why did she think he was on PCP? I just see him with his hands in the air?
TRAVIS: According to her attorney, who was on our program earlier this morning, she was trained as an officer who is able to recognize people who
are under the influence of drugs. I mean, that`s one of her specialties.
And it was some of the actions he was doing, before we ever see any video, continually furtively touching his pockets and refusing commands. And he
only said a couple words to her at all during this entire encounter, and even those words were mumbled by her -- by him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:25:52]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can see Crutcher with his hands up. Tulsa police officer Betty Shelby follows with her gun drawn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy is still walking. (INAUDIBLE) following commands.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But in the helicopter video, it appears Crutcher dropped at least one of his hands when he gets to his vehicle. While
police say Crutcher was reaching in the window of the car when she fired, video of the incident appears to show the driver`s window was closed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, looking at it from that angle, it does look like his right arm does come down. I want to go to Darren Porcher, retired NYPD lieutenant,
criminal justice expert. Dr. Porcher, thank you for being with us. I want to hear your reaction to what you`re seeing.
DARREN PORCHER, RET. NYPD LIEUTENANT: Well, the optics are very troubling, to say the least. We have a use of force that in my mind doesn`t rise --
it doesn`t rise commensurate to the particular incident. Here we have one officer that deploys a taser, and then we have a second that employs deadly
physical force.
I think what should have done is the officer should have regressed and used the police car as for cover and concealment and brought in additional
resources to secure this individual, if necessary. There`s no rush because, remember, we have a license plate that we can connect with who
that individual is. Therefore, having the identity of that person, we can catch up with them another day.
But it was -- we didn`t have the exigence or the -- it wasn`t necessary to address this individual right away, the way these officers did.
GRACE: Dr. Darren Porcher, you`re taking me back in a time warp because you talk just like a police report reads, OK? So I can tell you`re NYPD,
absolutely.
So I think what you just said, in regular people talk, not police talk, is you know who the guy is because you`ve got his tags, and there`s no exigent
or immediate circumstance. They could have gone back, regressed to their car. It`s not like the guy is pulling out an AK-47, OK? I mean, even if
he took off running, there`s no evidence that he`s a fleeing felon, that he`s a danger to anybody.
And I don`t like second-guessing police, but this is on video, Doctor. And I just don`t understand why this man is dead. I don`t care if he does have
a record or doesn`t have a record. I don`t care if he`s a member of the choir or if he`s the worst of the worst. I don`t understand why he is dead
tonight, Darren.
PORCHER: Absolutely. Let`s play devil`s advocate. Let`s say, hypothetically, this individual was in possession of a firearm. The police
officers, their first thing -- they need to think in terms of being safe. And so it goes back to what I mentioned in terms of cover and concealment.
There were poor tactics that were employed in this particular instance. Let`s say if this guy did have an AK-47, like you mentioned. How were they
going to protect themselves? That`s why that car is essential to maintain that zone of safety.
Bring in additional resources. You already had a helicopter on the scene. Therefore, you had eyes in the skies that can direct you accordingly.
Therefore, I feel as if there were poor tactics.
GRACE: Think about it. Unleash the lawyers, Robin Ficker, Maryland, Kenya Johnson, Atlanta. OK, Ficker, weigh in.
ROBIN FICKER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Two points. PCP, long-time PCP users in their 40s, have fried brains. They act aggressively. They talk
irrationally.
Number two, audio. We can`t hear what this guy is saying. He can`t yell fire in a crowded theater. He can`t say, I`m going to blow you up or I`m
going to kill you. We can`t hear what he`s saying!
GRACE: No, no, no, no, no, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Kenya Johnson, no one, including the officer, Betty Shelby, has said that he said any of that. In
fact, what she did say is that she couldn`t understand what he was saying because he was mumbling.
KENYA JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the standard is fear of reasonable apprehension of harm. And that can either be a subjective standard based
on exactly what her perspective was, or an objective standard, looking at all the other officers and their position.
GRACE: OK.
JOHNSON: So in defense of this cop, we`re going to be asking for a subjective standard relative to her viewpoint only.
[20:30:00] GRACE: I hear you, I hear you. Caryn Stark, psychologist, interesting. None of the other cops pulled their gun, none of the other
cops opened fire. She did. One of them had already tasered him, OK? So, how can we say she subjectively was correct in shooting this guy dead when none
of the other guys, none of the other cops thought that he should be shot?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: And that`s going to be so hard to prove, Nancy, because if there is something really happening here that doesn`t make a lot
of sense. If you take a look at it, how do you know he`s on PCP? How do you know he`s on drugs? Maybe he`s having a stroke, maybe he`s diabetic and he
thinks...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK. Now I think you`re stretching, Caryn. You know, I usually agree with you, but I don`t think the guy is having a stroke, OK? But good try.
Good try.
(CROSSTALK)
STARK: OK. So, maybe he`s in a diabetic coma, you know, he`s about to pass out.
GRACE: OK. I hear that. Dr. Ken Redcross joining me out of New York. Dr. Redcross, PCP was reportedly found in his car. This cop is reportedly
trained in the use of various drugs. So, if he had used PCP, what difference would that have made in her perspective?
KEN REDCROSS, BOARD-CERTIFIED INTERNAL MEDICINE: Yes, that`s something that kind of baffled me about this case, as well, Nancy. Like you, I can
support law enforcement when things make sense. But in this case you can`t tell that from 10 feet away. You didn`t see someone that appears
intoxicated, that`s off balance and isn`t answering commands.
Look, with PCP, the people are taking down because they get hallucinations, they get out of body experiences, things that`s they`re searching for. But
one of the thing that`s interesting with somebody else mentioned though in the panel, it works quickly but it doesn`t last that long.
So, it`s important to keep that in mind when we`re thinking about the brain being fried and that sort of thing.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: I can`t believe my new book "Murder in the Courthouse" the third in Haley Dean`s murder mystery series is hitting the stands, and Hailey is at
it again. Whenever she shows up, people drop like flies.
I`m so proud that I can give portions of these proceeds to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children to help find missing children.
Preorders come with a signed manuscript page. Go to Amazon, look for million Barnes or Nobles or to get that manuscript page go to
murderinthecourthouse.com.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, everyone. So, this is my first video.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charles Dean Bryant met for the first time investigators say social media accounts, surveillance video and cell phone
pings prove it. They first went to Fry`s Public House and then Shops and Cafe. He found the remains of Jacqueline Vandagriff in a park near Lake
Grapevine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve been meaning to start incorporating social media into what I do for work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A Texas Women`s University co-ed found murdered and dismembered in a local part. Her remains found inside a plastic kiddy pool. Tonight, we
search for clues left behind.
Straight out to Robyn Walensky, senior news anchor with the Blaze Network. Robin, listen to this video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACQUELINE VANDAGRIFF, TEXAS WOMEN`S UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Hello, everyone. My name is Jacqueline Vandagriff but friends call me Jacky. I`m originally
from the Colony Texas, but I moved to Frisco when I was in elementary school and I graduated from Wakeland High School.
I`m currently a junior here at Texas Women`s University and my major is nutrition with an emphasis in wellness. I chose this major because I
realized while working as aesthetician which is skin care if you`re not familiar. I realized the importance of nutrition and just overall health,
and decided that this is what I was going to study.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing the YouTube page from the murder victim, Jacqueline Ray Vandagriff, just 24 years old. A co-ed at the Texas Women`s University.
Her body has been found dismembered and obscured in a kiddy pool at a local park.
Back to Robyn Walensky with the Blaze Network. Robin, let`s take it from the beginning. Tell me what we know about her.
ROBYN WALENSKY, THE BLAZE NETWORK SENIOR NEWS ANCHOR: OK. She is 24 years old, in school, wants a career, innocent girl. Goes out one night to a bar.
The next thing you know, she`s dead. So the person who did this to her is clearly a monster.
GRACE: I want to go back to the beginning, Robyn Walensky, and tell me that evening, what were her movements? You know what? Oh, what, she`s
beautiful. She`s trying so hard to make good grades, keep it all together. And now this? Robyn, what happened? What do we know?
WALENSKY: Well, basically she went out to a Denton bar and she meets a man while she`s there. And they start drinking and then they start bar hopping
and going to another bar, and then a third bar. And she`s seen on videotape at these three locations with this man.
GRACE: Guys, take a listen to what police have just told us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Approximately 6.30 a.m., Grapevine firefighters responded to a fire in Acorn Woods Park. After that fire was extinguished,
a dismembered, burned body was located.
The Tarrant County Medical Examiner`s Office has identified that body as being 24-year-old Jacqueline Vandagriff of Frisco.
[20:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANDAGRIFF: Hello, everyone, my name is Jacqueline Vandagriff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police believe Vandagriff and Bryant met for the first time at a bar in Benton. A blue plastic kiddy pool where police say they
found the remains of Jacqueline Vandagriff in a park near Lake Grapevine.
VANDAGRIFF: As far as my career aspirations go, right now, I`m most interested in corporate wellness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This 24-year-old girl, who is a co-ed at the Texas Women`s University, has been found dismembered, hidden under a kiddie pool at a
local park.
And you know, it seems to me, Stacey Newman, if someone had not tried to set her body on fire, the cops would not have found it as quickly as they
did, because I really believe the fire where someone tried to burn her remains, is what led cops to the kiddy pool.
[20:44:56] STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: You`re absolutely right. But also there were cell phone pings involved in this case. So, at some
point she was reported missing, cops might have still found her using the cell phone pings.
GRACE: OK. Let`s go the cell -- through the cell phone ping evidence as to how this case unfold. Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert joining me out
of Dayton, Ohio. Ben, what can you tell me about how the pings are helping solve the case?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, Nancy, every time you use your phone or receive a call, send a text, it creates a record at the phone
company that tells you what cell tower you were connected to.
By going to the phone companies and following those pings, we got a map that showed where she was moving all along that night. Every location. Each
of those locations is probably accurate to about a square mile. So, we couldn`t have put her in the backyard, but we could follow her progress,
Nancy.
GRACE: You know, another thing I`m learning through this case, something I did not know, Ben Levitan, because of the pings, can you determine in which
direction the vehicle or the phone is moving from the cell tower?
LEVITAN: Oh, yes. Nancy, if you look -- a cell tower basically covers a circular area around itself of about a mile in each direction. But if you
look up at a cell tower, Nancy, you`ll see there`s like a triangle on top.
GRACE: Yes.
LEVITAN: Well, that is its three sets of cell tower transmitters that pointed north, south, southeast. And it pointed in three different
directions. The phone company knows which one of those transmitters you use.
So, if we know which cell tower you were connected to, we can also find out if you were southwest of that cell tower or north of that cell tower and
that really helps in trying to pin down where someone was located, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, Robyn Walensky, senior news anchor with the Blaze Network. Robyn, what about her Twitter account?
WALENSKY: Yes, this is extremely strange, and that is that a day after the body is found, 11.22 p.m. on that the following day, which would have been
September 15, it says never knew I could feel like this. So, who is insane enough to post something like that?
GRACE: That video you`re seeing right now is from KDFW Fox 4. OK, hold on. "Never knew I could feel like this." This is after her body has been found?
WALENSKY: Correct.
GRACE: OK, Ben Levitan, got to call on you again. How can I figure out, it`s certainly not her. Her body has been found dismembered and somebody is
tweeting from her account as if it`s her. So, how can I figure out who is tweeting from her account, Ben?
LEVITAN: Well, that`s possible. Critic keeps when you connect to the internet, the web site knows two things about you. They know your general
location based on your I.P. address. That is where and where you are connected to the internet.
The second thing they know is what`s called a Mac address of your device, every device in the world, computers, cell phones, iPads, each have a
worldwide unique identity. A Mac address. We can easily look at the suspect`s devices and find out does that Mac address match the device that
connected to Twitter that night.
GRACE: Got it, got it.
LEVITAN: Or is it positively if it was his device or not, Nancy.
GRACE: Caryn Stark, I want to go to you on this. Dr. Caryn Stark, psychologist out of New York. This woman just goes out to have a drink.
She`s minding her own business. She has great grades. She works. She`s just 24 years old. And now this.
In fact, we were showing early surveillance of her at one of the three restaurants she`s stopped at. There you go. Thank you, Justin. I mean, at
this point, is it just -- look at the guy to the left of her, the guy with the shaved head, did you see him? I saw a little peek of him.
That video you`re seeing right now is from KDFW Fox 4. OK. Look, look, look. I mean, hold on, Caryn Stark. Robin Ficker, how are you going to
argue with this? There she is. This guy has come up to her at a bar, they`re sharing a drink. It`s him! It`s him with the shaved head!
FICKER: He was with her at some point in time, but there are lots of bar flies that hang around these bars that could have picked her up after he
left her. He has no history of violence. He`s been a love-struck love bunny in the past. No violence in his history. He didn`t do it.
GRACE: Caryn Stark, can you just not even go have a drink or a cup of coffee out of fear that this creepy dude is going to show up at your elbow?
[20:50:03] STARK: You have to be really careful, Nancy. And I don`t want to blame her at all, because I think that would be the wrong direction.
GRACE: Absolutely not.
STARK: But everybody has to be very careful, especially if you`re drinking, because this is a stranger. And I don`t think he`s an innocent
dude at all. I mean, he has a history of following -- you know, he needs to be kept away from his ex-girlfriend and stalking.
GRACE: Right.
STARK: And so, there is something wrong with him.
GRACE: Liz, to the news point. Kenya Johnson, he stalks his ex-girlfriend all through Wal-Mart.
JOHNSON: That`s true, but if the prosecution is to prevail, this time line of this evening is going to have to be absolutely tight. Because if there`s
any room for another scenario or person to enter...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I saw shaking your head, yes, Robin Ficker. I mean, of course they`re going to have the time line down. I got it on video for Pete`s
sake. OK, guys, very quickly, don`t move.
The desperate search for a teen girl is coming across the wires right now. A 2-week-old infant kidnapped. To Kyle Peltz, Kyle, what do we know right
now?
KYLE PELTZ, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. A 13-year-old Katherine Derleth and her infant son, now they both went missing from a
home in Illinois on Sunday. Cops believe she was abducted by her stepfather, 39-year-old Christopher Derleth.
And according to reports, Nancy, he`s previously been ordered not to contact her. And right now, police believe she and her baby could be in
danger.
GRACE: OK. Right now, look at this guy, Christopher Derleth, (618) 692- 4433, why is a 13-year-old girl the mother of a little baby?
PELTZ: Well, we don`t know the answer to that, Nancy, but right now there`s a nationwide arrest warrant that`s been issued for the stepfather
on charges of aggravating kidnapping and child abduction.
Police say this guy is an avid camper, and there`s a possibility they could be somewhere like a camp ground or a low-end motel. Cops also told us that
he has with him sleeping bags and at least one tent, possibly more.
GRACE: We`re looking for a green `97 Mercury Villager minivan. For all of you truckers listening tonight on Sirius, we are on the hunt for this guy.
Tip line (618) 692 -- can you put the tip line, 4433, (618) 692-4433.
Any idea, Kyle, where this guy is with the 13-year-old little girl and her baby?
PELTZ: Well, Nancy, the vehicle you just mentioned it was spotted Sunday in West Virginia. But at this point, they could be anywhere in the country.
[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Tonight, shocking reports. A local pastor begins "dating" an 8- year-old little girl, marries her, and consummates the marriage. How did a congregation stand by and let this happen right here in America?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It turns out Morales went to Mexico to marry a 10- year-old girl, getting her pregnant at 13 or 14 years old. He`s being charged with sexual conduct with a minor and molestation of a child.
GRACE: Straight out to Tammy Rose, investigative reporter. Tammy, I don`t get it. A local pastor begins dating an 8-year-old little girl and marries
her when she is 10? What?
TAMMY ROSE, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Yes, it`s hard to believe. This story will make your skin crawl. Forty-nine-year-old Jose Morales is accused of
molesting five girls over the last 30 years with the youngest victim reportedly only 7-years old.
GRACE: You know, that`s not the end of it, Tammy Rose. What I`m trying to determine is we`re now hearing allegations that there are many other girls
he reportedly molested. And if this is through the church or girls that went to the church, why was nothing ever done about it? With all these
girls, are you telling me nobody knew about it?
ROSE: Well, two of the victims actually attended the church. Three other victims were extended family members, and a lot of times victims of sexual
assault are afraid to come forward, but it is shocking that this girl who he married at 10, that you would think the parents had to know something,
they usually have to give some sort of permission to let somebody marry their daughters. They did go to Mexico and get married, but at the same
time you would think somebody must knew about it.
GRACE: Michael Christian also on the story. Michael, I don`t think you can give, a parent can give permission for a 10-year-old child to get married.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No.
GRACE: She was an 8-year-old child.
CHRISTIAN: Certainly.
GRACE: And another thing, wasn`t one of the alleged victims the mother of another victim?
CHRISTIAN: Yes, that`s the most shocking thing here, Nancy, when one of these young girls came forward, it turned out her mother had a similar
story. She was also sexually assaulted by this pastor. And as far as they`re getting married, the age of consent in Mexico even with parental
consent for a girl is 14. So, if she was 10 at that time she wasn`t legally married.
GRACE: If this guy, does, oh, please, you really had to throw in him preaching? This guy does not get life behind bars, I am going to lay on the
courthouse steps in protest.
Let`s stop and remember American hero Army Specialist Jared Hartley, just 22, New Kirk, Oklahoma, second tour, bronze star, loved the outdoors. Grew
up on a cattle ranch. Parents Doug and Cathy, brother Alex. Jared Hartley, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but most of all to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp eastern. And
until then, good night, friend.
[21:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
