Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Kim Kardashian Robbed at Gunpoint in Paris; Amber Alert Turns Deadly; Arrest in the Murder of FSU Law Professor. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 03, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Breaking news tonight, armed robbers reportedly hold a gun point-blank to reality star Kim Kardashian`s head during a $10
million armed robbery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hunt is on for five men who robbed Kardashian at gunpoint. Armed men locked the reality TV star in a bathroom and took off
with millions of dollars worth of jewelry and cell phones.
KIM KARDASHIAN, REALITY TV STAR: I`ll never stop posting photos that I like of myself. If anything, I feel more empowered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s "Keeping up With the Kardashians" from E!
An Amber Alert turns deadly when the bodies of two little children, just 7 and 6, and a neighbor are found. Tonight, an Indiana mother accused of
kidnapping and suffocating her son and daughter. She`s described as, quote, "evil."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In one minute, you have a lively, bright, energetic 7- year-old and a 6-year-old, and the next, their life is snuffed out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She told officers her children were dead in the back seat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: An arrest goes down in the murder of SFU (ph) law professor, and the alleged mastermind behind his murder, a seemingly unconnected woman.
But why?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Armed robbers reportedly hold a gun point-blank to the head of reality star Kim Kardashian during a $10 million armed robbery
heist, tying her up, binding her, leaving her in a bathtub after she reportedly begged for her life, telling her assailants that she is a mother
with two children at home, counting on her to come home.
Straight out to Melissa Bell, CNN International contributor, joining us from Paris. Melissa, thank you for being with us. Explain to me how a
star like Kim Kardashian -- how robbers get the key to her private apartment, kind of like a hotel. Let`s just say you`re not going to find
this place on Orbitz, OK? And they get in and rob her of $10 million worth of jewelry? How does that happen?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It seems extraordinary, and no one here in Paris, all these hours afterwards, has any better idea than you do at this
stage. It`s unbelievable that it was behind this door that they managed to gain access.
Kim Kardashian, as you can imagine, never has to worry about her own security. Here she was, half past 2:00 in the morning, finding herself
faced with armed gunmen who managed to overpower the single security guard who was on duty, marched him up the stairs. Two of them went up to her
bedroom with him, asked him where Kim Kardashian`s room was. So we know that this was targeted.
This was what they were looking for. They came to get her jewels. They went up to her bedroom, got the man to show her (sic), tied her up.
And what must have been going through her mind as this armed robbery was going on, one can only imagine. We`re talking about Kim Kardashian, as I
say, who undoubtedly never has to worry too much about her own security. There are people who are paid to do that.
The point about these luxury flats is that you wouldn`t even know this is a fancy hotel. There`s nothing outside it to show it. It is privacy that
the rich and famous come here to seek. What they also expect to get is security. Last night, that spectacularly did not happen.
GRACE: I`m just trying to figure this out. With somebody like Kim Kardashian, with her notoriety -- and we also know that she had at least
$10 million worth of jewelry, at least, and there`s only one guard on duty? What happened to him? What, did they kill him in order to get the key to
her place?
BELL: You have to bear in mind that they were wearing -- this is also what needs (ph) me (ph) to tell you. This was extremely well organized. They
were wearing police outfits, so the jackets that French policemen wear and the armbands the French policemen wear. They came in pretending to be a
group of policemen, and so the door was opened.
It was then that they overpowered him, from what investigators have said over the course of the last few hours since this happened overnight, last
night, forcing him to show them where Kim Kardashian`s room was.
So there are a number of questions -- why a single man...
GRACE: Now, whoa, whoa!
BELL: ... was on duty here that night, why also her security detail were not around. Much speculation this evening about where they might have
been, whether or not they were actually in the building at that point.
[20:05:00]So at this stage, we still have a number of different questions about how security, both at this -- these luxury flats and her own
security, could have been found so wanting.
GRACE: You know, Melissa Bell, CNN International contributor joining us in Paris -- Melissa, you said that they were dressed like police officers. If
that is true, then why don`t we have a description of their faces?
BELL: We have -- we have -- the police have, of course, questioned Kim Kardashian. They`ve questioned a number of local residents, as well, to
try and get as much information as they have. Clearly, they have a lot more information than they`re giving out. They`re remaining very tight-
lipped for the time being, though, about where exactly the investigation is.
You have to understand that for Parisian authorities, this is a massive embarrassment, that it should have been allowed to happen, first of all,
and especially a time when Paris has really been trying to get tourists to come back.
They want to get to the bottom of this as quickly as they can, and they`re really not giving much away about what they found out. Before Kim
Kardashian got back on that plane to head back to New York, she was questioned at length by French authorities and they will have got from her
all the information she had, also the security guard, anyone who might have seen these men come in.
For now, though, authorities are not saying anything that they don`t need to. They`re not giving anything away to journalists or to the public. But
they`ve said that they are absolutely focused on getting to the bottom of this because this is, first and foremost, a massive embarrassment to them.
GRACE: Well, you know, the thing -- Melissa Bell joining me CNN International contributor joining me from Paris right there on the doorstep
where armed assailants pulled a gun and put it to the head of Kim Kardashian.
It would seem to me, having prosecuted thousands of cases, that if they wanted to find the perpetrators, that they would release their description.
Are they white? Are they black? Are they Hispanic? Who do they look like? Are they short? Are they tall? Do they have body piercings,
tattoos?
Help me out. No! Why aren`t they releasing the descriptions? If they were truly dressed like police -- police don`t hide their faces. They
don`t. So why aren`t they releasing the descriptions?
BELL: We do know -- we do know -- well, first of all, we do know that they were masked, that once they got in, they pulled masks over their face and
that they hid them as best they can. So we know that there was some kind of disguise involved to avoid them being detected or seen by those who were
likely to see them.
For the time being, though, that is not how French authorities are playing it. They are trying to get on with their investigation. They`ve not asked
for any help from the public.
I think that you really have to understand that for them, the important thing is getting to the bottom of this. 2:30 in the morning -- I don`t
think that they expect that many people actually saw these people come into the building.
This is a very quiet, very chic, very expensive, very luxurious neighborhood of Paris. At half past 2:00 in the morning on the night from
Sunday to Monday, there really wouldn`t have been that many people around. They came in. They went and did what they had to do, and they left again.
How they fled is also a question -- one of the questions (INAUDIBLE) lots of speculation about a bunch of bicycles that were left in the lobby of
this hotel that vanished at the same time as the men did.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, wait, wait! Wait, Melissa! Wait a minute! Wait a minute. Melissa Bell, CNN International contributor joining me from Paris,
in the front of the location where Kim Kardashian had a gun put to her head. Now, whoa, whoa, whoa! You said -- and I know that you`re right --
that they then put on masks.
But they had to get in -- the night clerk had to be duped by them to start with, so he had to see their faces. So where`s the description? And it`s
very hard for me to believe that a luxury -- it`s kind of like a mansion that rents out apartments through word of mouth to celebrities. There`s
not one camera in there, and they`re not releasing the video?
BELL: No, that is...
GRACE: And then they get away on bicycles?
BELL: That is another thing that`s come out of this that seems absolutely extraordinary when we think about it. Not only was there only one man on
duty here overnight last night, but there are actually no cameras in the building. So there is no security footage, we`re told, which, of course,
will be a massive difficulty for the investigators trying to figure out exactly what went on. They`re having to rely on the word of mouth of...
GRACE: Who are they bringing in...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... Inspector Clouseau?
BELL: For the time being, all they have to go on is Kim Kardashian`s word and the security man who was on duty. No other security footage from
inside the hotel, inside the luxury flats here, is available. There simply are no cameras.
GRACE: OK, I`m just trying to get it in my head, Melissa. And I`m not doubting your reporting at all. I think you`re absolutely correct.
So they go in, they attack one of America`s most famous reality stars. Whether you like her or hate her, she is an American! And she`s attacked
there with a gun held to her head. And the guys get away on a bicycle? I mean, it`s just not adding up to me.
[20:10:04]So let me get back to the story, Melissa. So they get in, the guy hands over the key, Please don`t hurt me! And they get in. They steal
$10 million worth of jewelry. And I`m just wondering, did she have that for fashion week or a fashion show there in Paris?
BELL: This is, of course -- it was for fashion week that she was here. You have to bear another thing in mind as you give all those details, that
it`s not as though Paris were not on high alert. Paris is in a state of emergency and has been ever since the terror attacks of last year, 18
months of terror attacks that have left 240 people dead, 240 civilians dead over 18 months.
France has never been on higher alert. There are tens of thousands of extra policemen, extra security forces, extra military personnel on the
streets. So this is a city that is already on high alert, which is adding to the sense that in that context, how this could have been allowed to
happen, and how we know nothing more at this stage about what went on is all the more astonishing.
Of course, even here in the French press -- and they`re very reluctant generally to take on their own authorities -- even in the French press, a
great deal of questions today about how this could have happened, how it`s been handled since, and why this particular institution, which is made to
cater to the rich and famous, should have been so low on security services, on security infrastructure.
You go to any of the fancy hotels here in Paris, you have 20, 30 security staff whose job it is to make sure that the people staying there are
protected. Here, one single guard on duty is going to be one of the questions that are going to be looked at. Clearly, for the company that
runs these luxury flats, a lot of answers that are going to be needed over the coming days.
GRACE: Well, Melissa Bell, CNN International contributor, you`re awesome.
I want to go quickly to Alan Duke, editor-in-chief with Leadstories.com. Alan, so it`s very common for stars like her, of her ilk, to borrow jewelry
for big performances or appearances. We always hear about it at the Oscars and the -- you know, they all have jewelry on loan. And I think that some
of that must have been true for some of her jewelry. But still, this isn`t fitting together for me at all, Alan.
ALAN DUKE, LEADSTORIES.COM: Yes. You know, this is strangely perhaps the only big moment in Kim Kardashian`s life where it wasn`t photographed, I
mean, ironically.
GRACE: OK, hey -- hey, hey! Hold on! Put him back up. Put him up! You know what, Duke? You may not like Kim Kardashian.
DUKE: I love her!
GRACE: A lot of people may not like her. But she`s ours. She`s an American.
DUKE: Yes, she is.
GRACE: And she had a gun held to her head. So I`m not really in the mood to hear people make fun of her being a reality star...
DUKE: Well, it was just a thought. It`s just strange.
GRACE: ... this and that. You know, what I`m saying is, they better have some lead they`re keeping away from us because to hold a gun to an American
star`s head, not that she`s more important than anybody else, but it is symbolic! It is symbolic, Alan!
DUKE: Yes. And the big loser in this -- I mean, yes, she went through a lot of trauma -- the insurance company. Whatever company has underwritten
her jewelry while she travels, perhaps Lloyds of London, you know they`re on this case. Yes, Inspector Clouseau or whoever might have to come out --
this is like a case from "The Pink Panther" because this was so well planned. Was it an inside job, is probably one of the...
GRACE: You just stole that from me, Alan Duke. You`ll probably go put it in your headline!
DUKE: I thought of it earlier.
GRACE: You did not think of it. I just said it. Hey, you know what? We`ll fight about that later. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I posted a nude selfie. I mean, I was so proud of myself, like, I had gotten in such great shape. But people had such a
problem with it. I`ll never stop posting photos that I like of myself. If anything, I feel more empowered, like, if you`re not into what I`m posting,
don`t look.
I just felt like I wanted to, like, defend him in it, because it`s, like, she legitimately, quote, says, as soon as I get on that Grammy red carpet,
I`m going to tell all the press, like, I was in on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then she just didn`t like the reaction.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, and you know, just another way to play the victim.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would happen if you just called Taylor up and just say what -- just, you know, what happened? How did this go so south?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for your lovely advice, but I`m not going to take it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s "Keeping up With the Kardashians" from E!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:37]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kim Kardashian, robbed at gunpoint.
KARDASHIAN: Like, there`s way too much drama, so many haters in the world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities say the robbers took more than $10 million worth of jewelry from the reality star.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Handcuffed the concierge, and then handcuffed her and put her in the bathroom while they went through her jewelry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s "Keeping up With the Kardashians" from E! that you just saw.
For those of you just joining us, reality star Kim Kardashian goes to Paris for fashion week. She is armed-robbed, a gun held to her head, $10 million
worth of jewelry taken, 2:30 AM at a super-plush private mansion that rents out to high-profile celebrities. It`s not listed. You get it through word
of mouth. Most people have never heard of it. I had not until this incident.
Straight out to Chris Spargo, reporter, Dailymail.com. So once they get in, once the clerk hands over the key and they get into her room, what
happens then, Chris Spargo?
CHRIS SPARGO, DAILYMAIL.COM: Well, there were five men who broke in. Only two went into the apartment, masked men. And they immediately walk up to
Kim, and they point a gun at her head point-blank. They tie her up. They gag her. They put her in a bathtub. They lock the door. She`s pleading
with them meanwhile, saying that she has children at home, Please don`t do this, Please don`t hurt me.
[20:20:02]They don`t care, throw her in the bathroom, lock the door, grab the jewels and make off.
GRACE: I wonder if they were gloved, if they`ve left any fingerprints. It sounds so sophisticated, I doubt that they left fingerprints. But how did
they know where to find the jewelry? Was it just out and about, or did she have it hidden away?
SPARGO: Well, here`s the thing. You have to realize that she`s the most photographed person in the world and she`s at Paris fashion week. So I
would think that she`s been walking around all week with these jewels, and she`s photographed going back to this apartment. So they probably had an
idea it was in there and were able to look around. It doesn`t seem clear, though, if it was in a safe or not, if she somehow (ph) handed over the
combination. Obviously, she...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait! Wait, wait! Wait! Look at this! These were just posted by her, just before the robbery. Now, hold on.
Justin, weren`t these posted, like, around 2:17 AM? Is that right, Justin? Oh, these were a few days before. I think some of what we`re showing right
now, Chris Spargo -- sorry to interrupt -- is some of the loaned jewelry.
Go ahead, Chris.
SPARGO: Well, here`s the thing with the loaned jewelry. We think a lot of it was loaned, but we`re pretty sure that one of the jewels was her
engagement ring, which is a 20-carat diamond, which is around $3.5 million or $4 million. That is her own. So that was not loaned to her.
The only thing with loaned jewelry is, usually, when you get jewelry for an event, it is returned that day. So it would be kind of unlikely that there
would be a lot of loaned jewelry. This is someone who likes her jewelry, and she`s not willing to skimp when she wants to buy something. So this
could feasibly be all her jewelry that was stolen.
GRACE: It`s hard for me to imagine somebody traveling with $10 million worth of jewelry. So are you saying, Chris Spargo, that they have her all
tied up and gagged and leave her in the bathroom, in the bathtub, shut the door, and get the jewelry and leave -- are you saying that her, for
instance, engagement ring was stolen?
SPARGO: We know that she had it in Paris. We know that she was photographed going to the plane to go back to New York this morning, and
there was no engagement ring on her finger.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:26:11]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five gunmen came in here, masked. They overwhelmed the concierge and demanded that they be taken upstairs to Kim
Kardashian`s apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And all the drama they have together, like, that`s for them to work out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities say armed gunmen dressed as police officers locked her in a bathroom and got away with millions in jewelry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing "Keeping up With the Kardashians" from E!
We`re trying to get to the bottom of a $10 million jewelry heist on American reality star Kim Kardashian, in Paris for fashion week.
Joining me now, special guest, celebrity bodyguard, Silver Shield Investigations Steve Stanulis. Steve, thank you for being with us. And
you are a former bodyguard for Kim Kardashian and Kanye West. Thank you for being with us. What went wrong? Why wasn`t her bodyguard outside her
door, parked?
STEVE STANULIS, FORMER KARDASHIAN BODYGUARD: Well, that`s the million- dollar question. And I think a lot of people hit it on the head. I totally believe this is an inside job. They had one security guard, who`s
a great guy -- he`s a personal friend of mine -- out with the sisters. There is a secret entrance to get in, so they`re not that lucky to come in
with no security present.
And shame on Kim. I mean, not shame on Kim, but I mean, to put it on social media that you have this ring and you have no trained or armed
security with you is a little bit puzzling, as well.
GRACE: With me, celebrity bodyguard, Silver Shield Investigations Steve Stanulis. Steve, again, thank you for being with us. So with the whole
Kardashian gang, or at least two of them, wouldn`t one stay with Kim Kardashian? I mean, she`s the -- they`re all beautiful. They`re all
wonderful. They`re all money makers, but she`s the crown in the jewel -- I mean, she`s the jewel in the crown. So why isn`t she being guarded? Plus,
all the jewelry is there.
STANULIS: Agreed. And the thing is this. I mean, does it make sense to have -- be flashing a ring that`s worth $10 million and maybe not -- maybe
have an off-duty police officer maybe paying $30 an hour to watch you, if you`re going to kind of flaunt what you have and you`re by yourself? I
mean, I don`t think there`s anybody in the camp that could tell her, or him for that matter, Hey, listen, maybe that`s not the right thing to do,
flashing this around social media if you`re going to be by yourself. So they kind of beat to their own drum on this.
GRACE: This is the first I`m hearing about a secret entrance. What do you mean by that?
STANULIS: Well, I mean -- I mean, not too many people know it exists. So to get there, to know exactly where it is, dressed as police officers, when
you`re going to see everybody`s -- you`re going to see their face because they`re not going to be masked if they`re police officers -- if you had a
trained police officer, I could speak to you in about two minutes and know you`re not a police officer, if I was working.
So to have you -- come in supposedly as police officers, go where her room is, would have no armed security there, to me seems a little too lucky. It
seems a little too planned. It seems like there`s somebody either -- I don`t want to say in the camp (ph) or that`s close to them or even in the
hotel that knows the whereabouts and what she was doing for that to happen so easily.
GRACE: I find it really hard to believe that any of the Kardashians would sign up or be part of her having a gun held to her head.
STANULIS: No, no. I don`t mean an inside camp with the Kardashians. I`m talking about...
GRACE: You mean within the hotel?
STANULIS: Right. I`m talking about people that -- employees...
GRACE: Agreed. Agreed. Now, let me ask you this. How did she get loose?
STANULIS: Well, that`s -- that`s -- these are all questions that are unanswered. I`m surprised. And why do you need five or six guys to put a
gun to her head and tie her up? I mean, I`m sure if they came in with their guns, they would just take whatever they wanted and walk out anyway.
[20:30:00]So there`s a lot of questions that still need to be answered.
GRACE: Stacey, how did she get loose?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: We`re hearing she was able to get out of her restraints. But back to what Steve was saying, he`s right. Because
there`s report there`s actually a secret door that celebrities and millionaires use to get out of this apartment. But you know the Kardashians
always want to be on camera, so they come in and out of the front door. That`s how these robbers may have gotten into that mansion.
GRACE: To Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert joining me. Here`s from Kardashian from a -- Ben, this is -- this is another twist. So they take
$10 million worth of jewelry and her cell phone. Can they get all of her private photos and texts back and forth with her mother and Kanye or
whoever she`s texting, and all of those photos, if they release those or try to sell those for money, can they be traced?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: I`m sure a tabloid would love to get a hold of that. But that`s essentially why you take the phone at a
robbery, so that Kim Kardashian could not call 911, or any friends that would be 112. That`s the first thing you want to do, to get away from it.
Secondly, if those phones are ever turned on, they`re going to -- you know, the police are already aware of those phones. They know the serial numbers.
They know the phone numbers. If those pop up anywhere in the world, police will immediately be able to find at least the phone and possibly some of
the suspects, Nancy.
[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Documents show she admitted she smothered them by covering both of their faces and nose with her hands, until they died.
Police say she motioned with her hands over her face to show detectives how she did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: An Amber Alert turns deadly. The bodies of two little children, ages 6 and 7. A neighbor also found dead. Tonight, an Indiana mother accused of
kidnapping and suffocating her own son and daughter, is described as evil. Straight out to Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host. Now, we understand
there`s more to the story. What do you know, Dave?
DAVE MACK, SYNDICATED TALK SHOW HOST: Nancy, we know that this woman has been a terror for many, many years, and they actually suspect that she
could have been involved in the death of her baby`s daddy.
GRACE: Why do we think that?
MACK: Police suspected her in 2010, when his body showed up, but they couldn`t tie it all together, until they found the body of Frank Macomber,
the guy that she was with prior to taking her children. He apparently was killed in a similar manner.
GRACE: Whoa! I want to take a look at the two little children, ages just 6 and 7 years old. Dave Mack, the way that they were discovered, explain.
MACK: She showed up at a police department miles and miles away from where she began. She found a police officer and said, I`ve got two bodies in the
back of my car, and that`s where they found her two children.
GRACE: To Dr. William Morrone, forensic pathologist, joining me out of Madison Heights. Dr. Morrone, it`s a real honor to have you on tonight.
WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Thank you.
GRACE: Explain to me what you have learned from your review of the facts.
MORRONE: Well, it`s really easy to suffocate children, and you don`t need to be big to overpower them, because in an adult, you don`t have enough
room to cover the mouth and the nose. But the child is smaller, and there will be bruises on the face from this, as well as hypoxia and broken blood
vessels in the eyes from the suffocation. That will be confirmed for homicide in a death certificate, and the size of the bruises on the face
should match the size of the hand of the perpetrator.
GRACE: Joining me right now, we`ve talked a lot about the 6-year-old and 7- year-old children that were found dead according to the police, at the hands of this woman. But there is another victim, the other victim, father
found dead near the abduction sight. With me is Frank Macomber.
Frank, I recently lost my father as well. And what you must have been going through, because your father got roped into this really because he`s been a
good Samaritan. Whenever this woman needed a ride or she needed help, she would call on the neighbor, your father. When did you learn your father had
been killed?
FRANK MACOMBER, FATHER FOUND DEAD NEAR ABDUCTION SITE: We found out Tuesday morning. It was about 4:30, 5:00 in the morning that they found the body in
the woods, and they were waiting on an identification to find out if that was my father or not. And it came back that it was my father.
[20:40:00] GRACE: Frank, I am just sick about it. Sick about the death of your father. How would you describe your father?
MACOMBER: He was probably the most caring, loving father that any child could ever ask for. He would do absolutely anything for anybody. And I knew
in my heart when this came out that he did not participate with this woman, this monster in these crimes that she committed.
GRACE: I`m just -- I`m just sick about it. I actually -- Frank, there is no doubt in my mind your father had nothing to do with this. He`s an innocent
victim. In fact, to those of you just joining us, a little 6 and 7-year-old child dead, at the hands according to police, their mother, Amber Pasztor.
But now we know that her neighbor, she would always bum help off the neighbor when she needed a ride. She had been stopped so many times, she
couldn`t get a license anymore, so she would constantly be asking the neighbor for help and saying it was for her children.
And this neighbor, Frank Macomber, would always help, because he felt sorry for Liliana and Rene. He felt sorry for the children. So he would help,
over and over and over, give them rides, helped them out in any way. He has been found dead. Unleash the lawyers, Mindy Smith, Atlanta, Alex Sanchez,
New York. Okay, Sanchez, you know they`ve got the death penalty, right?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I know they have the death penalty, but she`s not going to get the death penalty. Look, you know, I don`t know
about you, Nancy.
GRACE: You seem pretty sure.
SANCHEZ: I`m not as surprised at this event that took place as everybody else seems to be. Here`s a woman that has a history of mental illness,
drugs. She was seen banging her head against a steering wheel, smashing windows. I mean, threatening neighbors that she was going to blow up the
entire neighborhood. Her kids were taken away from her. She couldn`t see her kids. Is it such a surprise.
GRACE: So she kidnapped them.
SANCHEZ: Yeah, is it such a surprise.
GRACE: But she kidnapped them.
SANCHEZ: Yeah, but she couldn`t go near them before. Is it such a surprise that she completely snapped?
GRACE: Hold on.
SANCHEZ: Is it such a surprise?
GRACE: Okay, first of all, Mindy Smith, there`s no such thing as "snapped." That`s a show on oxygen, okay? That`s not a legal defense. So no more
snapped. There`s no such thing as the snapped defense. You can say that every time I killed somebody, oh, I snapped. Snapped, you`re dead. That
doesn`t work. That`s not true. That`s the name of a show on the oxygen network.
SANCHEZ: It`s a legitimate defense here.
(CROSSTALK)
MINDY SMITH, LAWYER: It is, and I`m sure that her defense lawyers are going to say that she was legally insane at the time she did this.
GRACE: So we`ve got snapped and insanity. Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, this was very well planned out, Bober.
DANIEL BOBER, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Yeah, Nancy, this woman seems like a complete psychopath and she has clearly, you know, done this before and
engaged in a variety of different criminal acts. When you mix the drugs and mental illness, it`s just a really toxic combination.
[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And breaking tonight. An arrest goes down in the murder of an FSU law professor, and the alleged murder mastermind is a seemingly unconnected
woman. But why?
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FSU law professor Dan Markel was gunned down in his own home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooting him in the side of the head through the window of his car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The driver`s side window is all bashed in and he`s got blood all over his head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Roger Schulman, news director at the AM 860 The Answer, WGUL. Roger, thank you for being with us. Okay, so a Florida law
professor gunned down in the driveway, there at the home. Who is the woman that`s been arrested? She has nothing to do with this guy.
ROGER SCHULMAN, NEWS DIRECTOR AM 860 THE ANSWER, WGUL: Well, Katherine Magbanua had a relationship with the brother-in-law, the former brother-in-
law of the dead professor.
GRACE: Wait, wait, let me let that sink in. So this woman, very pretty lady.
SCHULMAN: Yes, very pretty.
GRACE: . seemingly unconnected to the FSU law professor, Dan Markel, father of two, had nothing to do with him, but is connected to the law professor`s
wife`s brother?
SCHULMAN: Brother, and she had two children with one of the alleged killers.
GRACE: One of the trigger people? Okay, this is a flowchart, guys. Here`s the dead guy in the middle, FSU law professor, he`s the father of two
little children. Now, the wife, Wendi Adelson, is not a suspect. Has not been arrested, declares her innocence. Her brother, not a suspect. He
declares his innocence.
Somehow, this woman, Katie Magbanua, has been arrested for murder. The trigger people, we believe, are Tato Rivera and Tuto Garcia. Now, what is
the connection? Matt Zarrell, how do I know the mastermind, the female mastermind is connected to the dead guy`s brother-in-law?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, you have to look at evidence from before the murder and after the murder. Because before the murder, we`ve
got.
[20:50:00] GRACE: Put up that flowchart, please. Sorry, Matt, go ahead.
ZARRELL: Okay, so, before the murder, we got cellphone calls showing Magbanua had multiple conversations with Charlie Adelson and at the same
time was talking to Sigfredo Garcia.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, Matt, hold on, hold on. So there`s the dead guy, the father of two. There`s his estranged wife, not a suspect. Now we know,
according to police, the murder mastermind, Katie Magbanua, has all these phone calls to the brother-in-law, not a suspect. What about money, Matt
Zarrell, did she make any money suddenly showing up in her checking account?
ZARRELL: Yes, so now we look at evidence after the murder. So after the murder, she received several things including $56,000, over $56,000 in cash
deposits. Police believe that the brother-in-law, Charlie Adelson, paid for half of her breast augmentation surgery.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, Matt Zarrell, how does that happen? You pay for what, one breast?
ZARRELL: Apparently, the police have subpoenaed the medical records from Magbanua`s breast surgery, as they believe that the brother-in-law did pay
for half of that procedure.
GRACE: Okay, Matt Zarrell, actually that was not really a serious question. What about the car, isn`t -- whoa, whoa, whoa, keep that up for me, please,
Justin. Unleash the lawyers, Mindy Smith and Alex Sanchez. Please look at your screen. Garcia`s purchases. A Chevy Monte Carlo, a Nissan Maxima, a
Honda motorcycle, a Suzuki motorcycle, breast implants and $56,000. please put the lawyers up.
Now, again, the brother-in-law of the dead guy, this is the dead guy`s wife`s -- estranged wife`s brother, is not a suspect. So why the breast
implants, Sanchez? Why is he paying for her breast implants?
SANCHEZ: Let me understand this.
GRACE: Okay.
SANCHEZ: The brother-in-law is not a suspect.
GRACE: No.
SANCHEZ: . according to you and the police.
GRACE: That`s right.
SANCHEZ: .. and yet the police are trying to use evidence that the brother- in-law paid for breast surgery and somehow gave her money.
GRACE: Exactly.
SANCHEZ: So either he`s a suspect in a conspiracy or he is not a suspect in a conspiracy.
GRACE: That`s your answer?
SANCHEZ: Yeah, that is my answer.
GRACE: Okay, you know what? And I hear you, Mindy Smith, second verse same as the first. Daniel Bober, let me see if I can get straight answer from
you. Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, what about it, Bober?
BOBER: It seems -- I mean, it seems like he seems like a suspect to me. I mean, based on the information that you provided. I mean, it seems like
there is some level of involvement if the police were looking into it. I mean, it seems like a mixed message.
GRACE: It is a mixed message but the police are firm that the wife, estranged wife and the brother, her brother, are not a suspect. To Dr.
William Morrone, forensic pathologist, renown medical examiner. Dr. Morrone, let`s bring it home. Describe to me what this law professor went
through, dying on the ground in front of his home in his driveway.
MORRONE: Here`s what it breaks down to. This was described as an execution- style killing, which is synonymous for a Chicago-style killing from the `30s. That has three elements. Number one, it has to be close range. Number
two, the victim has to be totally conscious and they know it`s coming. And number three, they are fruitlessly unable to resist. There`s nowhere for
them to go, and they see it happening. Those are the three classic signs of an execution-style or Chicago-style killing.
[20:55:00] (COMMERICIAL BREAK)
GRACE: An FSU law professor gunned down in the driveway in front of his own home. You know, Dr. Morrone, you were just talking about the gangland kind
of murder that went down on him. Tonight, what`s breaking now is a female murder mastermind has been named that seemingly is totally unconnected to
the murder victim, has nothing to do with him.
Dr. Morrone, you know how many times I guess after the murder of my fiance it`s normal, but I think now that I have the twins, if someone tried to
kill me, who would take care of the twins? I just wonder if that was his dying thought, that he would never see his children grow up or try to help
them grow up. I mean, he had time to bleed out, right?
MORRONE: Yeah, your whole life has got to run in front of you, and if you`re a person of substance and character, you worry about caring and
protecting for the people that you`re aware from, what are you going to do?
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, what more do we know?
ZARRELL: Hours after the murder, the wife told police that her brother joked about hiring a hit man to kill Markel, but right now he`s not
arrested or a suspect.
GRACE: Not a suspect? Let`s remember American hero army chief warrant officer Keith Mariotti, just 39, Plattsburg, New York. Loved flying
helicopters, dreamed to fly since a little boy. Parents Nancy and Dilio, widow Denise. Keith Mariotti, American hero.
And happy birthday, third birthday to superstar twins, Ella and Joseph, children to our superstar producer, Phil and his wife Christina. They love
singing, dancing, and dog jazz. Now Phil and I went on a mission trip to Biloxi after Katrina. Little did I know this will produce a beautiful twins
one day.
Thanks for being with us so much. Nancy Grace signing off. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
[21:00:00]
END
