Return to Transcripts main page
Out in the Open
O.J. Simpson Facing 11 Criminal Charges
Aired September 18, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Things looked back last night for O.J. Simpson. They're looking worse tonight. We have got the list of charges up against him.
Go ahead. Look at this. I'm going to get out of the way. Now they even include kidnapping with a deadly weapon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here we go. O.J. Simpson set up?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe he was set up. I believe the whole thing was a setup. You see it was taped.
SANCHEZ: Even if it was, does it matter if he broke the law, Leo?
LEO TERRELL, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: I will tell you exactly, because I know more than you about this.
SANCHEZ: Don't get this guy started. Oh, we booked him? I guess we will.
Seen this?
ANDREW MEYER, STUDENT: Don't Tase me! I didn't do anything. Ow, ow, ow!
SANCHEZ: Who let things get out of control? John Kerry? The cops? The suspect? The I-Reporter who shot this joins us.
Why bodyguards are needed in Iraq. That's why.
Ever think about passing the slowpokes in front of you? Here's why you shouldn't. It's just one of the hottest video pics of the day that we're going to bring OUT IN THE OPEN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And we're going to have it for you.
Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Tonight, five new charges against O.J. Simpson. One of the charges is kidnapping with a deadly weapon. Now, this is serious stuff. Where did this come from, you might be wondering. Well, we looked into this. We want to you listen to this tape now. This is a tape recording that took place just as O.J. Simpson and the other cohorts of his -- quote -- "busted into the hotel room."
Here it is. Play it, Ali (ph).
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON, DEFENDANT: Don't let nobody out this room. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
Think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and sell it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SIMPSON: Don't let nobody out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.
Mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It's those two times. And you hear him actually say it. Don't let anybody out of this room. Don't let anybody out of this room. That
Well, that could possibly qualify as kidnapping, because he was making sure that nobody in the room was getting out. And, if they're able to prove that there were a couple guns in the room, well, that certainly makes it a whole lot more serious, doesn't it?
Simpson goes to court in less than 24 hours.
Ted Rowlands is at the Las Vegas jail where he is being held.
I'm just wondering what made police add these new charges and whether they started to reexamine the evidence, maybe go through some of those tapes that we were just sharing with our viewers, Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it wasn't police. I think it was the district attorney here. Prosecutors have been mulling this over for the last couple days. They're the ones that came up with this.
Clearly, the tape that you played most likely had something to do with it, but also the witness accounts that they were not able to call 911 specifically, so 11 felony counts against O.J. They are clearly throwing the book at him early on here. How much of this will stand up, how much will actually go all the way through the process remains to be seen, but clearly he's still in jail, held on a no-bail.
That may change tomorrow. But clearly throwing the book at him.
We have a little bit of new information today. One of the outstanding suspects, according to a source close to this investigation, had until 5:00 Pacific time to turn himself in. He's a Vegas resident. It is now 5:00 and we haven't had confirmation that he did so. According to the source if he didn't show up to this jail by 5:00, they were going to come and get him. That from a source close to this investigation.
Today also the Las Vegas Police Department released some surveillance photos that were taken last Thursday night at the Palace Station Casino. This is surveillance photos of two men. The police released these because they are trying to identify these two people. We don't want to speculate on their names or their potential guilt or role in this, but these were provided to us by the Las Vegas Police Department.
According to multiple sources, one of the individuals that they are looking for is a local resident from Las Vegas, the other one a resident of the state of Florida, and they believe he is in the state of Florida tonight -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: These are the two new guys that we heard about earlier that police are looking for? That's them right there?
ROWLANDS: That's them right there, exactly, and police are trying to identify them and bring them in. They're part of this. They were named in the complaint today as unknown, unknowns that will be added once they're identified and talked to.
SANCHEZ: All right, so there you have it, Ted Rowlands briefing us on some of the new developments.
We have got to take you through a bevy of other pieces of information that have been coming on this over the last -- well, over course of the last couple of hours, actually. New charges, that's important. They also include many new counts that go along with the charges, so let's try and break this down for you. Sometimes the best way of doing this is just to go to the wall.
Let's start with -- come on, Jeff -- let's start with yesterday. These are the charges from yesterday, robbery with a deadly weapon -- we took you through these -- assault with a deadly weapon, as well, armed burglary and conspiracy.
Now move over here. This is interesting because this is what happened today. Three counts now of conspiracy, another count of burglary with a deadly weapon. There we have this kidnapping charge that we have been talking about.
What makes this kidnapping charge interesting is it goes right to the heart of the matter that police have been talking about. And it also actually connects with the tape that we showed you a little bit earlier in the newscast.
We also have now two counts of robbery with a deadly weapon, new information that came in with police today. Also, after looking at some of the videotapes and conducting even more interviews, prosecutors have added this after talking to police. We have got the new assault now with a deadly weapon as well. Remember there's a difference obviously between the robbery and the assault. And we also have the coercion with a deadly weapon. Now, what's interesting here is police are now convinced in large measure because of the some of the interviews that O.J. Simpson has himself given to members of the media, people like Ted Rowlands, that it was actually O.J. Simpson who planned this, talked to some of his friends and decided to go up there.
Now, how much culpability is involved, that's what police have to prove.
Let's go back to the set. We have got Dan Lothian joining us now to talk about a new development in this case.
And that is, interestingly enough, suddenly the Goldmans decide that they're going to enter the fray. They go to court, and they start having conversations with their attorneys about wanting to get some of this stuff, this memorabilia, these collectibles that were in that hotel room.
(CROSSTALK)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF: That's right.
They want to get their hands on this stuff. So the lawyers go into court today asking for the judge for permission to seize the items that were inside the hotel room. The judge saying I'm going to give you one to two weeks to come up with the list.
Now, the big question is, what's on the list? The list obviously would be what was inside that room. What we do know, according to police, is there were a few items there, a baseball, a Pete Rose- signed baseball. There was a Joe Montana football as well.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Is this his -- do we know, is it his stuff? I mean, does he own that stuff?
LOTHIAN: O.J. Simpson says some of stuff inside the room is his stuff. He says there are pictures inside the room of when he was a child. There are pictures of his children.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Why are looking at a baseball?
LOTHIAN: That's a duplication of the items that were seized by police. Those are some of the items that they did inside the room.
SANCHEZ: What does O.J. Simpson have to do with baseball?
LOTHIAN: These are his. These are autographed items that he says are his that were stolen from him.
SANCHEZ: You know what is interesting about this? You look at this and you start to wonder, OK, so there's all this stuff in the room, right?
LOTHIAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: Some of it may be his. Some of it may be just something that -- quote -- "the thugs" decided they were going to take, like Joe Montana's cleats, apparently, right? It has nothing to do with O.J. Simpson.
Is this stuff worth anything? Is there enough value there for the Goldmans to go after?
LOTHIAN: That's the huge question.
Obviously, they want some money. And the issue is, is any of this stuff worth anything? I spoke to about three well-regarded dealers out there, and they told that essentially O.J.'s stuff has lost its juice, that it's minimal demand out there.
Let me show you on the Web, where you can find a lot of this stuff. This is grandstandsports.com. And you will see, there is a football, an O.J. Simpson football. That was for $399, now slashed to $359.
SANCHEZ: Oh, my God. Can you see that? Can we get -- yes, get that up on the big wall.
LOTHIAN: You will see it on the board there.
Also, there is an 8-by-10; $199 was the original price.
SANCHEZ: So, the price is actually...
(CROSSTALK)
LOTHIAN: Exactly. Now, this could be a marketing ploy or whatever, but they're slashed.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: His book is selling like hotcakes because of this incident that we have been reporting on, but yet his items are going down in price?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Why is that?
LOTHIAN: Exactly.
Well, we talked about it a little bit last night, that, whenever there is an incident, there is, according to these experts, a spike in interest, in demand for the memorabilia.
SANCHEZ: Right.
LOTHIAN: The book, if you go to eBay, for instance, you will see the book, "If I Did It," is...
SANCHEZ: That's up.
LOTHIAN: Well, it's there. There are a lot of copies being sold on eBay, and a few other items from O.J. as you toggle down, but losing in value.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: O.J. Simpson has signed so many items over the last couple of years, because this is just how he makes his money.
LOTHIAN: Right. Exactly.
It's how he makes his money. And what we hear from the dealers is that he essentially has diluted the market, so many O.J. Simpson- signed items out there.
And, for instance, this card here, his rookie card, initially, we were told, that thing was selling for about $300. Now it's worth about $30.
SANCHEZ: You would think it would be worth a lot more. That's an interesting point.
Thanks, Dan. Appreciate it -- Dan Lothian with that report.
Well, what does this Simpson have to do with Goldmans in this case? And we understand that they did -- as you know, they originally had won a wrongful death lawsuit against him back in 1997.
Let's go back to the wall. Let's try and split this down for you. This is the original lawsuit that was filed back, as you know, in 1997. There it is, the -- owes the Goldman -- let's take you down, Jeff, this way, and you will see what we're talking about -- $38 million. By the way, it's actually $38.5 million, for those of you who want to be sticklers to this.
How much has O.J. Simpson paid the Goldmans so far? There you have it. The information that we have and all the phone calls that we have made today is, he's not even paid a million. So, it's less than a million dollars. That's probably important if you're going to look at the next guest that we are going to be talking to in just a minute.
By the way, there's a lot of stuff over here. Simpson has about $8 million, and this is what you call untouchable money, stuff that they can't touch. What can't they touch? Well, I will give you a hint. If you're ever in his situation, you want to move to Florida, because in Florida you can't touch houses, can't touch salaries or pensions; $20,000 a month is what he gets in pensions from the NFL.
His Florida home is now worth -- real estate has bounced up there so he made a pretty penny on that -- $575,000. And then there's the 401(k)s and the trust funds. That's all protected from the creditors.
With me now is Goldman family attorney Jonathan Polak. Jonathan, there is some stuff here that I guess you can't get to, and you understand, the law says, look, you can't get this stuff, because according to Florida law and tax law, you can't get it, but there's another game that's being played here between your -- between the Goldmans and O.J. Simpson. And it's almost a catch me if you can, stuff that he's hiding from you, right?
JONATHAN POLAK, ATTORNEY FOR GOLDMAN FAMILY: Oh, absolutely. He's been hiding these assets for a long time.
We're just now learning, I believe it's Mike Gilbert, who was his former sports agent from back in the mid-'90s, was actually handed a bunch of stuff back then as the Goldmans and sheriffs were coming down the road to take stuff from his house. So -- and Gilbert apparently held on to that for many, many years. That was part of the stuff that was in this room.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let's try to break this down for the viewer, because I think they have to understand what's going on.
O.J., aside from all the money that we're talking about, which is a lot of money that people would be very comfortable living with, has decided he wants to earn more money, so he's going out peddling his name, his autograph, and anything that either belongs to him or his past, right? And he's doing this consistently?
(CROSSTALK)
POLAK: Yes. And I take issue with the last analyst that you had there. He was making the point that O.J.'s stuff is not worth that much.
Our view is is that -- because based on the information we have gotten, he's earning somewhere around $250,000 a year, perhaps even tax-free, because he's not reporting the income, from doing these autograph signings, from doing this memorabilia. So, he's getting the money. Whether anybody's buying it or not is another issue.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Here's the problem. This is a civil case, so you can't call the cops and say, look, O.J. Simpson just signed a bunch of autographs. Go after him and get those -- you can't do that, right?
(CROSSTALK)
POLAK: It doesn't work like that.
SANCHEZ: Well, how do you get it, then? How do you know when he's going to do it and how are you able to collect those earnings, if at all?
POLAK: Well, under most circumstances, we're not going to be able to, because the way the court system works is, we have to know about the event before the money has changed hands and before it becomes public, so we can go to court, get an order, take that order, take it to wherever it is that he happens to be located at, get someone to recognize the order.
And by that time the money is gone.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
POLAK: And he knows that. His lawyers know that, but that's why the book is so important, because the "If I Did It" book that we recently were able to public, it's not his book. It's the Goldmans' book. And that's why it's rising to the top of the charts. It's the number one bestselling book in the country. It represents our victory over O.J. Simpson, the killer of Ron Goldman.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Jonathan, I guess you might say good timing on that.
Listen, stay there for a little bit. We might see if we can get back to you.
In the meantime, thank you.
We understand we have got breaking news on this story now coming out of Las Vegas.
Let's take you now to Ted Rowlands.
Ted, what's the update? What's going on?
ROWLANDS: Rick, just confirming with a source very close to this investigation, Michael McClinton, the last named suspect in this armed robbery, has turned himself in and is under arrest, being processed at the jail here, the men's facility in Las Vegas.
Michael McClinton arrested today, turned himself in through his attorney. He's facing the same charges that O.J. Simpson faced, the 11 felony counts including the kidnapping and the armed robbery. So the last of the named suspects has been arrested. They're still looking for those two men that they released those photos that we showed you earlier. But I just wanted to get that you, Michael McClinton in custody tonight.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Who's Michael McClinton? And what did he have to do with this case? Was he one of the guys who actually went into the hotel room, as a matter of fact?
ROWLANDS: One of the men that allegedly went with O.J. Simpson into the hotel room and took the merchandise out at gunpoint. That's the allegation, at least one gun involved. That was articulated in the filing today.
And he is facing, as we said, the same charges, very serious charges that O.J. Simpson is facing. He's being processed right now, that according to a source close to this investigation.
SANCHEZ: Ted Rowlands bringing us up to date with the very latest information out of Vegas.
We appreciate it, Ted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRELL: You have got to prove to me that O.J. Simpson knew those guys had guns when they walked into that hotel room. You don't know that at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Simpson defender Leo Terrell, he was steaming last night. Is he still? We're breaking this down and find out what he says.
Then, Spanish-language television here in the U.S., too many lefties? Does it lean too far to the left? We continue this debate that we brought out in the open last night and got a lot of comments on.
Also, can you believe they did this with a chain saw? Honoring America, tonight OUT IN THE OPEN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It is breaking news, new information out of Las Vegas that there is another arrest, another guy picked up, Michael McClinton, in the O.J. Simpson case. We're hoping to be able to talk to another one of our correspondents, Dan Simon, in just a little bit, so stand by. We will be taking you back to Vegas.
In the meantime, the very serious possibility that O.J. Simpson was actually set up by one of his cohorts. He's now facing 11 charges. Here's what co-defendant Walter Alexander said to Larry King about this. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
WALTER ALEXANDER CO-DEFENDANT: I believe he was set up. I believe the whole thing was a setup. You see it was taped. I believe that it was a setup. It's very obvious that Thomas Ricci had intentions to set O.J. up, and that's what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And, now, remember, Alexander is one of the guys who went in with him.
So, the question now is who are these guys? Let's try and break it down. We did this last night. Let's do it again, because you need a scorecard to try and keep up to date with who do what to whom in this case. Let's start with Alfred Beardsley, right? He was going to auction the memorabilia off. He collected Simpson items for year snow. He's the one who actually called the police in the first place.
Now, here's an interesting name, Bruce Fromong. He's another collector. He was also in the room at the time. He says the meeting was set up as if they were just customers. He didn't know that O.J. Simpson was going to be showing up at his door. Here is what makes this interesting. This guy had a heart attack.
And we learned just a couple of hours ago that he's now in critical condition at the hospital. He's in a dire situation as a result of this heart attack. And, remember, he was one of the victims. He was in that room.
I see Lisa Bloom over thinking about that already.
I'm going to be asking you about that.
Third suspect, he was booked last night, released on bail today. We understand his place was searched as well. This is Clarence Stewart. You remember, we filed this report last night right about during Larry King's or Anderson Cooper's show. They searched his place Sunday. He had a bunch of signed footballs. He apparently has given them back to the police.
Let's come back and finish this up, so we can get Leo Terrell and Lisa Bloom in here as well.
This is Michael McClinton. You heard about him just moments ago, this news breaking just moments ago that he's the fourth suspect. He has now turned himself in, and then this. This is significant. This is Thomas Riccio. Why is Thomas Riccio so important?
Here's why. He's a former Simpson business associate. He's the one who egged O.J. Simpson on, who told him, hey, there's some guys selling your stuff, and you may want to go get it. He also the one, interestingly enough, who then tape-recorded secretly what happened in the room when O.J. Simpson showed up.
So, this is interesting. This is the kind of stuff that makes Leo Terrell crazy.
So, let's bring in Leo Terrell now and Lisa Bloom.
And start off with Leo.
Leo, you talked about this last night.
TERRELL: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Tonight, it looks like there's even more confirmation that this guy Riccio set O.J. Simpson up. Let's just cut to the chase here, right?
TERRELL: Well, it's finally -- I'm the only person in this country talking about it, and everyone else is talking about the Goldmans, the Browns and everyone else.
And I'm telling you the family does not trust -- the Simpson family does not trust the media, because they're not getting the true story out. And that's what sickening about this whole case. They're trying to railroad O.J. Simpson.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: We just told it. This guy looks like he set...
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: Yes, you told it last night, because I told you about it last night.
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: Other than that, it hasn't been on in any of the media.
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: It's impossible usually to get a word in with Leo.
And I love you, Leo, but let me say, I have been saying for two days every since I found that Riccio sold -- I emphasize sold -- he has admitted that he sold the tape to TMZ.com before giving it to police, who brings an audiotape recorder in, in the first place.
So, it's very suspicious. But, having said that, a setup is not a defense to armed robbery, Leo. And you know that.
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: If you want to jump on the bandwagon, go ahead, but there's an undisputed fact.
A majority of the people in this country wants O.J. Simpson in jail for a case 12 years ago.
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: I'm sick of that nonsense.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: No, Leo, here's the point. Unless you can connect Riccio to the police or the prosecutors in some way and say that Riccio was working on their behalf, then it really has nothing to do with the case, does it?
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: Rick, we're at the beginning of the case. The charges haven't been formally filed. No evidence, no discovery, no examination. We are just at the beginning, but the media has already convicted O.J. Simpson. We're at the early stages.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, that's absolutely not true. We're examining it.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: And by the way, a criminal complaint has been filed. I have it right here, Leo. And I have read it.
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: O.J. Simpson has not received that until tomorrow, Ms. Bloom. He hasn't received it. He hasn't even made a court appearance.
BLOOM: That doesn't mean it hasn't been filed.
OK. Listen, here's the bottom line, by the way, Rick, with this criminal complaint.
SANCHEZ: Go ahead.
BLOOM: Little bitty facts, great big charges, because what do we look at on page six? That basically the allegation is that O.J. Simpson did what? He took a guy's baseball cap and sunglasses.
And later on, one of the new allegations, coercion with a use of a deadly weapon was, he didn't let a guy use his cell phone. So, we're talking about very, very small facts, great big crimes alleged, like armed robbery. Why? Because guns were involved. Guns are going to be the center of this case. Prosecutors have to win the guns.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Leo, if they can prove that there were two guns in that room at the time that O.J. Simpson is heard on tape saying, don't let anybody out of the room, would you not admit that they have a pretty convictable charge there?
TERRELL: Let me tell you, no. You know why? Because like I told you yesterday, Mr. Simpson was not part of any attack or any gun knowledge. He had zero knowledge of that.
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: None. None. Zero.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Here's a legal question to you.
Let's suppose there were guns. Does it matter whether he knew or not?
BLOOM: Oh, it does matter. It does matter as to what the conspiracy was, what the agreement was, absolutely.
TERRELL: It doesn't matter on the conspiracy charge. Thank you.
BLOOM: But, look, these guys go in commando style, O.J. barking orders.
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: How do you know that?
BLOOM: Because I have heard the tape.
TERRELL: Commando style?
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Yes, because I have heard the tape.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: If you would listen to it, you might understand it, too, Leo.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: We don't know what he knew about the gun.
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: You want to convict him already.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: All we know is the tape that we have heard so far and what the co-conspirators said.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And there's also a quote from Mr....
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: ... saying that they burst into the room. Those are his words.
BLOOM: That's right. It's going to be a credibility battle between all of the different...
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: Lisa Bloom has convicted O.J. Simpson, not on these charges. But she's holding a grudge for 12 years.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: I have, huh?
You haven't been watching my show on Court TV, Leo. Tune in tomorrow, 9:00 a.m.
(CROSSTALK)
TERRELL: No, I will not. I will not watch Court TV.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: All right. Well, that's one person, Leo.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Leo Terrell, Lisa Bloom, my thanks to both of you for being here.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: We will continue the debate, I believe.
Let's dig deeper now on the Simpson -- on what the setup theory was all about.
Ted Rowlands is joining us now, along with "New York Daily News" reporter Michael Jaccarino.
Mike, is it possible that this Riccio guy could be charged? Does Leo Terrell have a point?
MICHAEL JACCARINO, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": The police haven't said anything about charging Riccio at this point. Beardsley has told a "New York Daily News" reporter today that he would be shocked if Riccio wasn't charged with at least some criminal counts.
SANCHEZ: Charged with what? For setting up the actual encounter between O.J. and such? What would the charge be?
JACCARINO: Well, listen, this is just opinion, but he was in the room. And under Nevada state law, according to legal sources I have spoken to, if you walk into the room, it doesn't matter if you have a gun or not. If you go there in with the intent to burglarize, you're just as liable under the law as someone who is actually pointing a gun and conducting a stickup.
Theoretically, he could be charged with the same charges everybody else.
SANCHEZ: You know what's interesting about this? And I think we have probably got to talk about it. If he was doing what he's alleged to have done, it seems like a brilliant marketing technique. He has ownership of some...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, think about it. He has ownership of some of these O.J.-signed memorabilia.
You create a situation like this and you would think you would drive the price up of some of those things. Possibility? Am I right?
JACCARINO: I don't know about that. That's just opinion.
But I will say this. "The Daily News" reported today that this is a very charismatic, a colorful character, who has been on the fringe of the memorabilia world for a long time.
I don't know if your viewers know, but he actually tried to hawk a video of Anna Nicole Smith receiving breast implants at one point.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let's go over to Ted.
Ted, if you're standing by, I understand that you talked to this Fromong character -- or I shouldn't say character -- he's one of the victims in this case and apparently the guy has had a heart attack. And the information we get now is that he's in critical condition.
You spoke to him before he went to the hospital. What can you tell us about him?
ROWLANDS: Well, I talked to him last week and actually he was talking about -- his wife specifically was talking about his health. They were worried about it because of all the stress going on, and he is in critical condition at Cedars-Sinai in Los Angeles, where he had a heart attack. So, you know, he is one of the alleged victims in this case.
When you are talking about Riccio and this theory that this was all planned out, a grand scheme of things, people that I have talked to, specifically the attorney today -- I had a very long conversation with the attorney for Clarence Stewart today. Listen to what he said about Riccio and what he thinks his role was in all of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT LUCHERINI, ATTORNEY FOR CLARENCE STEWART: I think that O.J. was being played with a little bit, and, again, we don't know what Riccio was doing, when he started taping, what his intentions were.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: Here's the bottom line, Rick. The taping that Riccio did may not have just been in that hotel room. There's speculation that he has more tapes, more tapes of conversations he had with O.J. Simpson.
The theory may be that it wasn't to drive up memorabilia, but maybe something else. And, clearly, one would have to think that he's being looked at by investigators. We haven't heard anything about that, but one would clearly think that that is on the table.
SANCHEZ: That's fascinating.
Also, the Fromong thing.
Can we bring Lisa back in for one more question?
If Fromong, heaven forbid, turns worse, and he were to perish, if he were to die, could O.J. Simpson and these guys be charged with that?
BLOOM: I think that's very unlikely, because they have to prove causation.
It could be the morning show bookers that caused his death. I don't mean to be glib, but the guy went out and did a bunch of television interviews.
SANCHEZ: Right. Absolutely.
BLOOM: And he had a heart attack. It didn't happen immediately afterwards. I think that would be tough to prove.
SANCHEZ: Lisa bloom, Ted Rowlands, Michael Jaccarino, my thanks to all of you. Appreciate it.
Also, we're following a...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEYER: I didn't do anything!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Whose fault is that, that this thing got out of control? John Kerry? The police officer? The victim?
We will be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to OUT IN THE OPEN, I'm Rick Sanchez. Tonight one of my favorite segments here on CNN, this is about a 25- year-old -- 25 years old, and all he's doing, all he's doing is helping to cure more than a million people from a terrible plague. That's all? Enough to be tonight's CNN Hero.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AARON JACKSON, CNN HERO: Haiti is the most water poor country in the world. It's in probably the most environmentally destroyed country in the world. In Haiti, people get their water sometimes from puddles, streams. I've seen kids playing in sewage and also drinking from the same water.
Haiti not having proper sanitation, a lot of people are infected with intestinal parasites.
(BEGIN GRAPHIC)
It is estimated that half of Haiti's eight million residents live with internal parasites...
...and in some areas, worms infect more than 40 percent of the children.
(END GRAPHIC)
JACKSON: When you see a child with an extended belly, that's intestinal worms. The average worms eats up to about 20 percent of a child's nutritional intake a day. This is the difference between life and death in a lot of situations.
My name is Aaron Jackson, and it's my goal to de-worm the entire world. I grew up in Destin, Florida, playing golf every day of my life. I decided to travel, and when I traveled, it really opened my eyes to what the world was really like.
In Haiti, we have four orphanages, an intestinal parasite program, and also medical clinics.
When we talk to a community to de-worm, we educate the people on ways to prevent to getting worms again.
Washing the vegetables, cooking the meat a little longer, wearing shoes when you go outside are ways to help prevent catching the worms.
When we first go into an orphanage and we de-worm them, the children look very zombie-like, no livelihood in their face.
And that's the scary thing because you have to tell kids that tonight, the worms will be leaving your body in some shape or form and then after we de-worm, they come back to life, literally within weeks you can see that they're playing again and smiling.
For a pack of cigarettes you can de-worm 250 children, a whole school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aaron is a great person and I'm so blessed to know him and work together with him.
Investing in children is investing in a country and that really makes things different in the future.
(BEGIN GRAPHIC)
By the end of 2007, Aaron's organization will have helped to de- worm about 1.7 million people worldwide.
(END GRAPHIC)
JACKSON: Well, me and the children, we've become like family, you know. They call me Papa Jackson. These kids are my kids.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: You can check out Aaron Jackson's project at cnn.com/heroes. That's also where you can nominate a hero of your own. Well, does Spanish language television in the U.S. lean too far to the left? Next, we will continue the debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back to OUT IN THE OPEN, I'm Rick Sanchez. Every single night we're going to try to dig into one of the most important and contentious issues that facing our country, today. We're calling these "Immigration Nation." You can expect them about this time every day.
One of the key aspects is the Hispanic news media in the United States, Univision, Telemundo. You've heard of them, right? But you probably haven't watched them a whole lot. They actually, did you know, have more viewers on many nights than any English language broadcast in America, having an audience that generally gives those two networks a lot of political power.
So, what are they saying? Do they slant to the left? Do they slant to the right? Joining us now again is Republican strategist, Leslie Sanchez, who wrote an op-ed piece in the "Wall Street Journal," that says "Univision slants to the left."
Sanchez also wrote, by the way, "Los Republicanos." That's kind of fun to say. "Why Hispanics and Republicans Actually Need Each Other." Interesting perspective, think about it.
Also with me, Maria Cardona, she's a Democratic strategist and adviser to Senator Clinton's presidential campaign. And that's the reason that why we brought them both together.
If you can, Ellie, open the shot a little bit. I want to show the viewers, here, in our own studio, something that we've go. This is part of our staff that's come together. And what happens is when we do a segment like this, we start getting e-mails and start getting reaction from people. That's what we've been getting, a lot of conversation going about this.
So Miss Cardona, let's start with you. And here's the question from the Democratic side. And you know, it's interesting, because it seems that most of the people who come to the United States come from Latin America where there's a real populist theme. Why? Because the politicians in Latin America tend to be a little more corrupt than ours, the institutions break down, they don't work as well, and people don't trust big business, because they think they're greedy. So, they come to this country, Maria, and they tend to lean to the left. Is that right?
MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think what actually happens is they come to this country to try to seek a better life for themselves and their families. So, what they do is they rate the politicians and the parties, frankly, on what they are actually say to Latinos. And what has happened is that since 2000, we had a president who actually spoke to the dreams and aspirations of the Latino community, he actually spoke them pretty effectively. And I think that that's one of the reasons why Univision gave him an unbelievable amount of coverage, him and the Republican Party, a lot of times without the Democratic opposing view, which is why I find Leslie's arguments a bit misguided and frankly factually false.
SANCHEZ: Well, wait, wait, which president are you talking about here? Are you talking about Mr. Bush or Mr. Clinton?
CARDONA: President Bush, absolutely, President Bush since 2000. President Bush has been one of the presidents that has best spoken to the dreams and aspirations of Latinos in this country and it's one of the reasons why he was able to garner 40 percent of the vote in 2004. That's why Univision, frankly, covered him a lot more than they covered the Democratic Party, which is why Leslie's argument does not hold water.
SANCHEZ: Do you buy that -- Leslie.
LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATIGIST: Maria, I love that argument, I'm going to post that quote on my Website. I tell you, that's the best thing the Democrats have said for President Bush, especially with respect for Hispanics. But, Rick, to your point, Hispanics come here for economic or political freedom. And what happens when they come to the United States, they don't necessarily know what the Republican and Democratic Party are, so the Spanish language television has a tremendous amount of influence, but they believe in advocacy journalism. They will tell you, the top anchor, Maria Lemos Salinas, openly admits that she promotes her ideas and believes in that type of journalism, which tends to be more liberal biased, more sensational. It's almost like they're auditioning for "Air America" the liberal radio station.
SANCHEZ: You know, I'm not sure.
CARDONA: That is completely untrue.
SANCHEZ: I'm not sure that's fair to say that or hang that on Maria Lemos Salinas.
CARDONA: It is not.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARDONA: Maria Lemos Salinas and Jorge Ramos are two of the most professional journalists that we have. They have been in this field for over 20 years, and you know that, Leslie. Univision for the last 10 years has actually had a Republican bend and a lot of people think it was because up until recently it was owned by a...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: How about this?
L SANCHEZ: If I can answer, it's an important point.
SANCHEZ: Hold on a minute, because we're going back and forth a little bit here. From the Republican standpoint, it's the social issues where you can set the hook and get Hispanics in the United States. From the Democratic issue, it's from the political and the business side. I mean, there's something there for both parties if they just reach out and grab them, right, Leslie?
L SANCHEZ: No, if I can very quickly, there's something to be said about the top journalists and Univision, they are outstanding journalists. I'm saying they're more commentary, geared toward commentary than objective journalism, but to answer your point, Rick, very true, why don't they tell the truth on the Website about where the Democratic presidential candidates and were they stand, that they're pro-abortion, that they want to raise taxes on small and Hispanic businesses, you know, that they support gay marriage, issues that are important to conservative Hispanics...
CARDONA: Actually, that's not true...
SANCHEZ: Guys, I'm -- I'll tell you what Maria, we'll have you back, we'll continue the conversation and we have to leave it there. Because I really think it has as much to do as the people receiving this message as much as it has to do with the people sending the message.
My thanks to both of you, Leslie and Maria.
Also, we want to hear from both of you on this, go ahead and e- mail us, in English or in Spanish, the address is outintheopen@cnn.com.
Coming up, who's really out of line in this video that you've been seeing throughout the day? We're going to talk about this and bring it OUT IN THE OPEN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We got some video clips I want to show you, and sometimes we pick the ones out that offer a lesson for us. This one serves that purpose. Let's take you to Russia. This is a wedding procession, you see it going down the street, but look at that guy right there. He's zooming past. And look what happens as a result. He loses control of his vehicle, hits another car. We're going to show it to you again, and you're actually going to see, as he hits that car, it causes his car to roll over. He's in there with his wife and child. At least one person is in critical condition. The wife is actually seen flying out of the car. You see her right there. Police are saying they're still investigating the scene.
Also, every week we try and tell you about somebody who's managed to chuck their career and trade it in for their dream. Tonight a guy who made it, well, part of the war in the Middle East to Brooklyn. Ali Velshi has tonight's "Life after Work."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Steve Hindy, happy hour begins the moment he arrives at work. He's the co-founder and president of Brooklyn Brewery, a microbrewery in New York City, but his story starts a continent away. STEVE HINDY, CO-FOUNDER & PRES, BROOKLYN BREWERY: I used to be a journalist, in my past life, for 15 years I worked for newspapers and eventually "Associated Press." And I covered the Iranian revolution, the hostage crisis, I moved to Cairo and I was sitting behind President Sadat when he was assassinated in 1981. So it was a very exciting 5-1/2 years.
VELSHI: While Hindy was overseas, he learned to brew homemade beer from other ex-pats and after moving back to New York, he and a partner launched their own brewery in 1987.
HINDY: I sometimes tell people that working in the Middle East for six years was good training for starting a brewery in Brooklyn. I've been robbed at gunpoint, here. We had a run-in with some sort of mafia-connected people at one point when we were building the brewery.
VELSHI: They survived those experiences and business started pouring in.
HINDY: The first month we sold 1,768 cases of beer, and we're very proud of it. This past year we sold about 800,000 cases of beer, 25 years ago I was sitting in the office in Beirut trying to figure out how to cover a story and stay alive. It's been a great experience, a great adventure, and at least as exciting, in a little different way, than covering wars in the Middle East.
VELSHI: Ali Velshi, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want an answer to my question. (INAUDIBLE) Ow, help! Help!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Help, help, how did this thing get so out of control?
Coming up we're going to actually talk to the student who shot these pictures. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back now!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Those are bloodcurdling screams from a student at the University of Florida being tasered by police on Monday. This is during a speech by Senator John Kerry. And now the police officers are getting a lot of heat for this. A lot of people are crying brutality after watching the video. Look at the protest today, as a matter of fact, at the University of Florida that we've been following as well.
That's what it looked like today. Students decided to stage a sit-in. They're angry about this and the war. The question is, is this really police brutality? We're going to go through the tape with an i-Reporter who was there. She shot a lot of this video, this confrontation. She sent it into CNN. She's joining us now, Clarissa Jessup is joining us now from Gainesville. She was there, you see her on the video. What we want to do is start rolling the tape and we're going to go through it. We only have about three minutes to do this segment, Clarissa, so I'm going to ask you some direct questions. Let's go ahead and start with the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How come you didn't see the elections on the day? (INAUDIBLE) and this book (INAUDIBLE) five 5 million -- didn't you want to be president? I'm not even done yet. I have even more questions. If you were so against Iraq, how come you're not (INAUDIBLE) can beat Bush now before he invaded Iraq? (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, let's stop it there, Ellie. Let's stop it there. Because that's all the questions that he's asking. Is he out of line to be asking these questions? Were I guys already told, Clarissa, that this thing was over and you weren't supposed to be asking questions?
CLARISSA JESSUP, SHOT VIDEO OF TASERED STUDENT: To a point. We had originally been told that we would be allowed to ask our questions and that anybody standing in line prior to the initial outburst that we would have our questions answered. And I was actually supposed to...
SANCHEZ: So they shut off the questions you were going to ask, but you decided not to, he stood up and he started asking questions, right? Before we run out of time. Let's just get that on the record.
JESSUP: I think it's -- exactly. I think it's important to note that I was -- the reason I decided not to ask my question is because I was threatened with arrest and I was afraid they were going to possibly do the same thing to me, even though I wasn't afraid of tasering, but I was afraid of being arrested and I simply wanted have my voice heard and ask my question. And he had already -- we had actually been physically accosted by the police prior to this incident that was caught on tape.
SANCHEZ: We got it. Clarissa, it's better if the viewers actually see it rather than your description. And we have the actual video, so let's continue it now. Let it keep playing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, is anybody watching this? (CHEERS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, stop it right there, if you can. Clarissa, help us out with this. Apparently the police officers decided that he had pretty much done just the opposite of what they told him not to do, so they're taking it into their own hands now to arrest him for, what, disturbing the peace, right?
JESSUP: Well, what they actually did was they never told him he was under arrest and they did physically accost him while he was attempting to ask his question and while he was attempting to speak. There was no time limit that had been set for knit questioners prior to this event. There wasn't a time set for Kerry to answer the questions. And in fact, the police were already holding on to him as they were attempting to ask his question, they were already physically accosting both him and I before his outburst in front of the crowd.
SANCHEZ: All right, let's keep it rolling, now. Ellie, go back to it if you can, let's see to the point where he gets actually tasered. Go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ow! Ow! Let me go, let me go, let me go. Ow!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are you doing that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my god.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Go ahead Ellie, you can stop that now. This thing obviously escalated to the point where it was out of control. Who do you hold responsible for not controlling this earlier? I mean, there's probably in fault in the student who went ahead and did something the police told him not to do, but then again you can look and say maybe the police overreacted. I'm interested in John Kerry's reaction. Did he ever say, hey, leave him alone, let me answer his question?
JESSUP: He did at one point prior to the point where I was capable of filming the incident, John Kerry did try to interfere with the police, and at one point the police were holding on to Meyers, and Kerry got to a point where he almost lost his composure and said, hey, officer guy, you, you let him go. I do want to hear his question, I do want to hear what he has to say, and I do want to answer him. And that was at the point that the officer said, OK, you know, we'll pull you aside and let you ask your question, but as he was attempting to ask his question, the officers themselves appeared to me as though they were making it clear they were not going to allow him to even stay and hear the question. They were all holding on to him...
SANCHEZ: They were digging their heels in. Clarissa Jessup, thank you for taking us through this interesting segment. We appreciate it and appreciate your video as well.
SANCHEZ: Stay tuned, Larry King live has more on tonight's breaking news on the O.J. Simpson case. We'll have it for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much for being with us. I'm Rick Sanchez. That all for tonight LARRY KING LIVE starts right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
