Return to Transcripts main page
Out in the Open
Interview With Genarlow Wilson; Arnold Schwarzenegger Speaks Out on California Wildfires
Aired October 29, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, a prime-time exclusive interview with GENARLOW WILSON. Is he mad? Is he angry at the state? What really happened inside that hotel room, and why should we care?
Tonight, after being freed from prison by a Supreme Court decision, he sits down with me for his very first interview since getting out of prison.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GENARLOW WILSON, RELEASED FROM PRISON: You can't let everything that you have been through get the best of you and turn you bitter.
SANCHEZ: Free at last. He was 17. She was 15. Teen sex, right? Not according to Georgia law. He gets 10 years in prison, until the state Supreme Court says, this is just wrong.
WILSON: Of course, I believed that it was absurd.
SANCHEZ: He would have gotten out sooner, but only by admitting to being a child molester. He wouldn't do it.
(on camera): So, you were willing to stay in a maximum security prison with rapists and with murderers for principle.
WILSON: Of course.
SANCHEZ: And the principle was?
(voice-over): A prime-time exclusive, straight from prison. Genarlow Wilson tells his story, only here on OUT IN THE OPEN.
By the way, how prevalent is teen sex?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's 55 percent of teenagers.
SANCHEZ: How different from our day?
WILSON: Done some idiotic games in my -- in my teen years.
SANCHEZ: He admits what he did was wrong. But 10 years in prison? Is it about prosecutors run amok?
The California fires, are they out yet? Should they have been put out sooner? I go mano a mano with the governor who hates girly men. (on camera): Hey, Governor, I don't want to be a girly man, so let me ask you one tough question, if you don't mind, OK?
(voice-over): He says these big planes can't fly in big winds. We check the facts and bring it OUT IN THE OPEN for you.
Look what happened on live television. What the?
Also, Argentina's former first lady becomes Argentina's president. Hmm. I wonder if that could happen here?
Busy show, breaking news, all this on OUT IN THE OPEN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hello again everybody. Que tal. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Yesterday morning, I took my son to a place that is both historic and hallowed, right there in Atlanta, where Martin Luther King preached. We sat down with Genarlow Wilson. Now, this is a young man that went from being a homecoming king, great grades, football player, to a state prisoner for having teen sex. It wasn't a rape. It wasn't over age. Neither was the girl over age. Nobody used force.
Whether you're black or whether you're white or whether you're Hispanic, how would you react if your teenage son were sentenced to 10 years in prison for using bad judgment, for teen sex? Seems excessive, doesn't it? The Georgia State Supreme Court also thinks it is excessive.
This weekend, they called it cruel and unusual punishment. And they have set him free. But this has been a long road.
More than a year ago, I began asking questions about Wilson's case when it came to my attention. I then began a series of reports. You may have seen some of them. My first encounter with Wilson was behind bars at a state prison in Forsyth, Georgia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: You lost your freedom. What is that like, to lose your freedom?
WILSON: It is real hard, because I started off, it was like I had everything one day, and the next day, I didn't have nothing.
Where and when did this all begin? Right here at this Days Inn in suburban Atlanta. December 31, 2003, Genarlow and some of his friends decided they would come here, rent a room and ring in the new year. It was a decision that has forever changed his life.
(voice-over): He has said it all along, to me, in jail.
(on camera): At no time did you tell that young lady that she had to give you oral sex?
WILSON: No, sir.
SANCHEZ: Then the attorney who prosecuted him confirmed it to me.
EDDIE BARKER, DOUGLAS COUNTY PROSECUTOR: From what we have seen on the videotape and heard from the victim herself, we do not believe there was any physical force used.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: I want to stop right now on those reports and bring you up to date on this Georgia law. As antiquated as it may seem, it was passed, this sodomy law, in 1995.
Essentially, it said, even if you're 17, if you have oral sex with a 15-year-old, mandatory 10 years in prison. Had they gone all the way, by the way, it only would have been a misdemeanor. But oral sex, 10 years in prison.
The law was so ridiculous that the legislature in Georgia decided, let's get rid of it. It doesn't make sense. So, they changed it as a result of Genarlow's case in 2006. And now it is just a misdemeanor, punishable by 12 months, maximum, in prison.
But Genarlow was already stuck. He was already in prison. And they didn't want to grandfather him in.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): When Georgia lawmakers were asked to reconsider Wilson's case under their new law, the president of the senate had this to say.
ERIC JOHNSON (R), GEORGIA STATE SENATE PRESIDENT: Are you aware that these boys videotaped that -- that rape?
SANCHEZ: Wilson was not convicted of rape. So, on the steps of the capitol, I confronted Johnson about his assertion.
(on camera): Do you feel bad about the fact that you characterized this as a rape when you were talking yesterday in the Senate?
JOHNSON: No. No. No.
SANCHEZ: You don't have any problem with that one?
JOHNSON: No.
SANCHEZ: Because it wasn't a rape.
JOHNSON: It's a rape in my mind.
SANCHEZ (voice-over): With a big no from the legislature, prosecutors offered Wilson a deal. You can get out of prison, but you have to admit to being a child molester. Wilson said, no way, and he put his faith in the court system.
Finally, the courts seemed to deliver. Good news came from an appeals judge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We win!
SANCHEZ: A victory in the legal battle for Genarlow Wilson, sentenced to 10 years because of a Georgia sodomy law that harshly punished the 17-year-old for having oral sex with another teenager.
SANCHEZ (on camera): Read us what it says. Can you read it to us?
B.J. BERNSTEIN, ATTORNEY FOR GENARLOW WILSON: The writ of habeas corpus is granted. The sentence is void.
SANCHEZ: The sentence is void.
BERNSTEIN: The sentence is void.
SANCHEZ: That means he's cleared. That means he's cleared.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: B.J., explain to us what this means, if you could.
BERNSTEIN: The order. The order. He's released. He is released.
SANCHEZ (voice-over): But one hour later, prosecutors appealed the decision, all the way to the state Supreme Court. Genarlow Wilson would remain in prison indefinitely.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Now you're caught up.
Those are the stories the we have prepared over the last year, a lot of ups, a lot of downs, certainly more downs, finally the big up. The Supreme Court of Georgia rules that Genarlow Wilson, the kid who once had such a bright future, has been wronged. That's what the Supreme Court of Georgia said. They order his immediate release.
Now, take a look at this video. This is video from just the other day. This is Friday. For the first time, this young man is able to get out of prison. He is leaving prison for the first time. He is able to hug his mother outside the prison walls, hold his little sister. A relationship with that little sister that is part of the reason that he stayed behind bars, by the way. I am going to explain that to you.
The Supreme Court says it is cruel and unusual punishment, what they did to this young man.
Now, yesterday -- flip this picture here, if you can, will. Let's go to Ebenezer Baptist Church. This is an historic church in Atlanta. It is where Martin Luther King preached. There he is with his pastor and his spiritual adviser, his little sister, his mother, about what he has been going through, talking to those in the congregation.
Here now, from behind there where I sat down with him, this CNN OUT IN THE OPEN exclusive interview with Genarlow Wilson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Friday, you got the news. Where were you? How did you react?
WILSON: A guy in the dorm, he actually told me that he heard it on the radio. And I was in total disbelief. I fell like I had to see and hear it for myself. But, when I finally find out, when the warden, he confirmed to me that it was true, I was ecstatic.
SANCHEZ: When did you get the phone call that convinced you that the Supreme Court had actually made this decision on your behalf?
WILSON: Someone came down to the dorm to get me. And I was escorted up to the warden's office. And that's when I got the great news.
SANCHEZ: And how did you react?
WILSON: At the time, it's -- there's no words that really -- there is no words that can really explain how I feel. I felt great.
SANCHEZ: So, tell me when you were convinced and felt a sense of freedom for the first time.
WILSON: Well, actually, they gave me a card, a release card. And then that's when my patience really kicked in. I had to just sit down and wait it out, until my attorney or my mother got there.
SANCHEZ: Two-and-a-half years in prison as a sexual offender, maximum security. What is it like?
WILSON: It was very difficult for me, especially having to accept that I was labeled as a sex offender, basically a predator. But that's something that I never gave myself that label. I accepted the situation that I was in.
SANCHEZ: But the sexual offender label makes you a -- what people would refer to as a child molester. That's a heavy rap, isn't it?
WILSON: Yes, sir, it is.
You know, it is something that I never would allow myself to be or be labeled as. So, it was difficult for me just to be incarcerated for something of that nature.
SANCHEZ: Did you cry? WILSON: In the beginning, it was so hurtful and just to know how I was being labeled and treated and what I was being portrayed as, yes, it forced me to shed tears numerous times.
SANCHEZ: Most people would say, 17-year-old guy having sex with a 15-year-old ends up with 10 years in prison, hard time, rapists, murderers, labeled a sexual offender, child molester, that ain't right.
WILSON: Of course I believe that it was absurd. But I had to look at it that these gentlemen were doing their job. And they felt like that they were carrying out the law.
And, as prosecutors, you have to maintain the image of being tough. So, I don't place the blame on any of them. We did everything that we had to do throughout the court system, and justice was -- finally prevailed.
SANCHEZ: Well, the girl who was involved, do you ever talk to her? Have you ever apologized to her?
WILSON: Well, for the most part, I think, what happened that night, I don't think any of us made very wise decisions. But I don't think that any of us can go back then and change what happened.
SANCHEZ: Do you feel like you should have been punished for it?
WILSON: Possibly, but I don't think as harsh. I believe it is something that could have been settled between parents or something that scare us up and make us -- just teach us a lesson. But I don't think it should have ever come this far.
SANCHEZ: When I went to see you in prison, I remember, I talked to you as if you were my son. And I said, Genarlow, you know what did you was stupid, right?
And you said yes, sir...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You said yes, sir, it was.
You still believe what you did was stupid?
WILSON: Oh, absolutely. And I don't condone it. I wouldn't tell anyone to go out and do that for themselves. It was just something that I had to mature from, because us as teenagers, we all make stupid decisions and make idiotic moves. But that's part of being a teen. You have to live and learn.
SANCHEZ: Do you almost wish you could go back to that day and say, oh, my God, what am I doing here?
WILSON: Yes. I have thought about that numerous times. But I'm at the point in my life where I know I can't go back and change anything. So, I'm more than willing to move forward. SANCHEZ: Was it ignorance on your part? Did you know that, as a 17-year-old, for having oral sex with a 15-year-old, you could be charged with aggravated sexual battery and 10 years in prison?
WILSON: I didn't know.
SANCHEZ: You're not bitter?
WILSON: Of course not.
SANCHEZ: Did you ever believe you would be in prison for 10 years?
WILSON: No. I had faith in what we were doing. I had faith in my attorney. I had faith that the courts, that they would make the right decision.
SANCHEZ: But they offered you deals. You could have walked from prison a long time ago. You didn't to have stay in there. Why did you stay in there?
WILSON: Well, it wasn't necessarily just about the time. You know, was a principle. It was that I didn't want to be labeled as a sex offender, because I am not one. I just couldn't allow myself to do that.
You know you're going to have -- that was temptation. You know how you might have something in your life, you know, that you might want. Sometimes, you have to put aside the stuff that you want in order to do stuff that you need.
SANCHEZ: But you would have been able to get out and walk as a free man. And the only thing is, you would have carried with you this label of sexual offender.
WILSON: Exactly. But I might have had lesser time. But, then again, I would have nowhere to go, because I would have no home. I wouldn't be able to stay with my mother because I have a little sister.
When you're a sex offender, you can't be around kids. Basically, that's like I can't even have kids myself. So, what is the point of life?
SANCHEZ: So, you weren't willing to do that deal?
WILSON: Of course not. That's -- you have no future.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: It is important to point out that there are still some people out there who disagree that he should have been let out. There is an actual senator who at one point called him a rapist, as you may have seen on the video.
We have some got more of that tape, and we have got Genarlow reacting to some of those people. It is interesting what he says about them and about their assertions. We will have that for you in just a little bit.
In fact, we're also planning on showing you more of this interview tomorrow.
But joining us now is Genarlow Wilson's attorney, B.J. Bernstein, who is good enough to join us.
You know, I have seen you go through hell and high water in this case. As I said to the viewers a little while ago, probably as many downs as there have been ups. Why did you do this? Because it not like you're being paid to do this, right? You did this case for free.
BERNSTEIN: I did this pro bono, because a combination of things. His mother came in to see me and told me the story.
Several years ago, I was helped a little bit by writing a brief in the Marcus Dixon, which is a 17-year-old young man from Rome, Georgia, who got 10 years in prison for consensual intercourse. And, in that opinion, the Georgia Supreme Court warned the legislature: Fix the law.
And it was never done. And I just kept thinking, this is insane, when I have seen so many cases. I used to prosecute sex offenses. I'm a defense attorney now. I have been doing this for 20 years. And this is absolutely the wrong kid to have in prison 10 years. And just, sometimes, people come into your office that change your life. And Genarlow Wilson was that for me.
SANCHEZ: Well, you know, I have gotten to know you over the last year following this story. I have gotten to know Genarlow quite well as well.
And I have also gotten to know the special relationship that you two have. But, somehow, I think it is more than Genarlow. It is about more than Genarlow for you in this case. What else is here that you seem to be saying, we need to change as a society?
BERNSTEIN: Several things.
It has caused me to form a nonprofit called my5th.org in order to teach young people 21 and younger what laws apply to them. In this case, the prosecutor said, ignorance of the law is no excuse. And yet we spend no time teaching our kids what laws are going to apply to them and the consequences for their acts.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: By the way, hey, B.J., they're right, aren't they? Ignorance of the law is no -- Genarlow Wilson did break a law that was on the books of Georgia, right?
(CROSSTALK)
BERNSTEIN: Absolutely. Absolutely. But he didn't know the consequences of it. And we're talking about young people. We're talking about kids. And it's one thing if you and I do something. But it is another when you're learning every other lesson in life. We know teens make stupid mistakes.
And yet they become serious felons. They ruin their lives early. And, so, whether you're conservative, whether you're liberal, I think the one point that we could start with is agree to tell someone, tell the kids involved what could happen to them.
And, so, that's what I'm working toward there. I have had so many young people in my office over the years. I have just had enough of it. I don't need any more kids as clients. I want to see them move forward and skip that part of practice.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a tough question that I never wanted to ask you while you were still going on with this case, because I knew that it probably wouldn't have been one that you would want to answer, given the fact that you were going up against an awful lot of people in Georgia, in particular.
Do you believe that part of the reason that Genarlow Wilson was prosecuted, and do you believe that part of the reason that the senate dealt with this case the way they did in the legislature had undertones of racism in it?
BERNSTEIN: Yes, I have said that I think what is difficult about this case, it's the subtle racism here that is dangerous. It is not the overt because Genarlow Wilson was black and the young woman involved was white. They were both African-American.
Rather, it's, they see the videotape. There is rap music. Genarlow had dreads at the time. He was a great student, but he looked like a thug on a music video. And, at the legislative session, you heard them say, oh, he is just a thug.
I have heard that over and over, without realizing -- I mean, go to the mall and look at the kids. This is how they dress. This is who they are right now. And we may not approve of it, but it doesn't mean you're a thug. And when you use that type of word, that's a subtle form of racism. If this had been a young man from a wealthy family or white, I don't think 10 years would have been there.
SANCHEZ: B.J. Bernstein, good work.
BERNSTEIN: I'm the happiest lawyer in America tonight. Thanks.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: We called a lot of people, by the way, who supported this prosecution of Genarlow Wilson, including the district attorney, the Georgia attorney general, the Georgia state senators who we mentioned in this report, many of who have spoken in favor of the prosecution and stuck by it.
None of them was willing to come forward and defend their reason for pushing this prosecution tonight. For the record, if they're listening or watching, the invitation on this newscast, OUT IN THE OPEN, and with me remains open.
We would also like to hear from you. So, here's what we want you to do for us. Go to our new Web page. It's CNN.com/outintheopen. We want you to answer our Quick Vote question tonight. Quite simple. Should Genarlow Wilson still be in jail? And, obviously, the converse of that, should he be out of jail?
We would like to know what you think. So, go to our Web site and let us know. We will be looking forward to announcing your responses.
Why do prosecutors take cases like this one to the limit? Are too many prosecutors these days overreaching? Do they have too much power? Do they use it wisely?
And how about the question of racism in America when it comes to prosecutions? We are bringing this all OUT IN THE OPEN.
Also, how about teen sex? How is it different from our time, when we were kids? What is the story with the bizarre seeming acceptance of oral sex among teens these days?
We're looking into this and got new stats to share with you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Why did this Genarlow Wilson case get so out of control, if it was really a case about apparent teen sex, consensual, or seemingly consensual? There are some legal issues as far as that is concerned. Also, there is the question of prosecutors. Are some of them out of control when they get their hands -- it is like a dog with a bone.
Joining me now, Court TV Jami Floyd is good enough to be with us, also, former prosecutor Remi Spencer.
Remi, let me begin with you.
As a prosecutor, would you have brought this case?
REMI SPENCER, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I would have brought this case, yes.
The prosecutors take an oath to uphold and enforce the law without passion or prejudice. You can't selectively prosecute. Imagine if they didn't prosecute here.
SANCHEZ: So, in other words, the law was on the books. Even if it is a bad law, somebody breaks that apparent law, you have got to follow it through.
SPENCER: Absolutely. The prosecutor's job is not to decide what law is a good law and what law is a bad law.
SANCHEZ: Do you agree, Jami, or do you disagree?
(CROSSTALK)
JAMI FLOYD, COURT TV ANCHOR: No, I do not.
The prosecutor does take an oath to uphold the law, but the prosecutor takes an oath overall to pursue justice. And that's a very tough job for prosecutors. I don't want to take anything away from it. It's very difficult.
(CROSSTALK)
FLOYD: It's about discretion.
SANCHEZ: You're saying, as a prosecutor, you would have said, I know that there is a law on the books that says a 17-year-old has oral sex with a 15-year-old, and I have to prosecute him for aggravated sexual battery, even though the law says that, you would have said, you know what, I'm not willing to do that?
(CROSSTALK)
FLOYD: You don't to have prosecute. This isn't a statutory rape situation. This is a case where this prosecutor needed to think through the long-run effect. Once the kid is convicted, the judge is forced to impose the 10-year sentence. And that is not just in this case.
SANCHEZ: Remi, let me get back to you real quick, because here is where this case really gets interested.
As I followed it, not only did they prosecute this case, but then, when the legislature went to study to see if they should grandfather this young man in -- after all, they have now changed the law, remember? They went in and they said, from now on, any time a 17-year-old and 15-year-old, it's a misdemeanor -- the prosecutors lobbied the Senate to make sure that they wouldn't grandfather this kid in.
Is that proper?
SPENCER: Well, you bring up two great points.
I think we can presume that the law as originally written was unfair.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Right.
SPENCER: Because our elected officials have changed it in the state of Georgia.
SANCHEZ: That's a given.
SPENCER: Why the prosecutors lobbied not to make it retroactive, I think, perhaps wasn't serving the ends of justice.
(CROSSTALK)
FLOYD: It is what they always do, Rick. It is what they always do. When they have evidence that someone could be exonerated through DNA, they fight it. They fight it every time.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Why?
FLOYD: They want to cover their A-S-S.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But why such a sense of ownership over something that should have more to do with justice than your own ego?
FLOYD: Because prosecutors in this country have become more about conviction and tough sentences than they have become about justice. They have lost the heart and soul of their mission.
SANCHEZ: Let's give Remi a chance here.
SPENCER: I think we have to remember, not every prosecutor is a Mike Nifong like from the Duke rape case. They are good, decent people...
FLOYD: But more than you think.
SPENCER: ... trying to do their jobs.
The reason we can't make every change in the law retroactive is because the system would become overburdened. It would be impossible to continue to prosecute under the law.
FLOYD: We don't need to talk about Mike Nifong. Let's look at the DA in this case. There are at least a half-dozen other similarly situated white adults who were not prosecuted to the fullest extent of this law. There is obviously bias in this office. Forget Duke. There are other prosecutors out there that need to be looked at.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let's leave it at there -- at that.
Jami Floyd and Remi Spencer, interesting conversation. You guys are good. And I think it is enlightening for a lot of people at home to listen to this type of thing, because you never know when suddenly you're brought up on charges and you have to deal with one of these prosecutors, good, bad, or indifferent.
We want to know what you think about this, by the way. Our Quick Vote question tonight is, should Genarlow Wilson still be in prison? Go to CNN.com/outintheopen to cast your vote. We have got a really cool new Web site, folks. I hope you go there and check it out. The results later in this hour. Coming up, what used to be taboo is now accepted. What in the world is going on with teens and oral sex? How different from when we were there?
Also:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: It's very important we first talked about the weather conditions. You have to ask yourself the question, can those aircraft fly?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is a girly man conversation? Interesting, the way we got into this. Why did it take so long for air tankers to start fighting those California wildfires? We want to know. So, I go one on one with the governor out there in California.
We will be right back. Stay with us. Boy, we got a lot of stuff coming your way.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to OUT IN THE OPEN. We open up now a hot story that we were following for you last week. Remember we traveled to California to bring you the latest on this.
An update on the California fires and a follow-up to a series of questions that I've been looking into regarding the way that some of those fires were put out. Firefighters in San Diego County are still struggling to stamp out some big wildfires before the Santa Ana winds pick up again at the end of the week.
Parts of the area around the Santiago Canyon fire in Orange County look like a crime scene now, for good reason. Authorities are hoping somebody videotaped the area where the fire started on October 21st. And there are still questions about why the National Guard's C- 130 tankers that look like that, that have flamed retardant weren't used.
You see, some people are arguing if they've been used Saturday instead of Monday, they could have put the fires out before they got out of control. I caught up with governor Arnold Schwarzenegger last week and pushed him to answer this question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Do you wish that those tankers , those National Guard tankers have been called out on Saturday instead of Monday?
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: The tremendous challenge is the weather challenge. So a lot of people talk about, did you have enough aircrafts? Well, we have 90 aircrafts here. But they were not all allowed to fly because of the difficulties --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. So I wanted to know after that, did the National Guard ever even get called? I mean, did somebody call and ask for their opinion as to whether they think they should be used under this situation?
So we got a hold of Major General William Wade of the California National Guard and asked him that question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Did at any time they call you and ask you whether you would be willing to put your planes in the air?
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM WADE, CALIFORNIA NATIONAL GUARD: No. That was not something that was asked of me. I can't stress enough, they are the experts in this, Rick, and they're the ones that make the call as to whether you fly or you don't fly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So as a reporter, it does make you wonder. First of all, you have these flames that have this flame retardant. You'd think they could have put out the fires. The governor of the state tells you, "No, we couldn't use those because it was too windy."
The general from the Air National Guard is saying they never even called us. So we're going to bring in our own expert now. Let's go to CNN's chief technology and environmental correspondent Miles O'Brien, who is a pilot himself, knows a little bit about these conditions.
I'll just ask you point blank Miles, under the conditions as we know them, I think they're talking about something, not hurricane force winds but tropical force storm winds. Could a C-130 have flown in those conditions and helped put out that fire?
MILES O'BRIEN, CHIEF TECH & ENVIRONMENT CORRESPONDENT: Very marginal, Rick. As a matter of fact, the wind conditions there were horrendous. Those hot Santa Ana winds going over those mountains create tremendously hazardous situations for these airplanes.
Remember, they're traveling 150 miles an hour, 150 feet off the surface of the deck. Sometimes 10, 12 feet from the tops of those trees. It's a turbulent situation under good circumstances. With the winds approaching 52 to 69 miles an hour gusts, a 30-mile-an-hour difference between the steady state winds and the gusts, that was a very marginal weather situation.
I also talked to some people, Rick, who were involved in the southern California fire prevention effort there. And they said those C-130s are C-130Js. That's a newer model, and they didn't have the proper pods in order to convert them into tankers.
So there are a lot of factors involved here. But even if they had those tanks there, I'll tell you, it was not a safe situation to fly.
SANCHEZ: As we're watching them right now in that video, releasing that retardant, couldn't they have just flown a little higher? Stayed away from the dips and the valleys? Or would it have dissipated on the way down as well, it never really reached the fire?
O'BRIEN: Exactly. It'd be a waste of time because it would dissipate, particularly with that level of wind. What I've been hearing about all day, I've talked to a lot of pilots today who were out there and who are experts in this. They are describing absolutely heroic actions on the part of several crews to get in there and try to stop these fires.
One tanker was 150 feet off the ground and actually rolled inverted briefly. The crew was able to ride it but they went right back and decided that was enough of that. That was on Sunday. So there were efforts by these crews, they were just champing at the bit to get out there.
SANCHEZ: So --
O'BRIEN: But the wind was just really an enemy.
SANCHEZ: So, you know, I pressed the governor really hard on this. And I know I made him a little uncomfortable when I got in his face and started asking him these questions. What you're essential saying is, I was wrong, he is right.
O'BRIEN: Well, I can tell you this, Rick. I would never have flown my airplane anywhere near those conditions. Here's one thing to consider. While all that wind was blowing up in the hills, at Lindbergh Airport in San Diego, there was barely any wind at all. So I think a lot of people in San Diego are saying, "What wind are you talking about?"
SANCHEZ: Yes.
O'BRIEN: And that's what's gotten this ball rolling.
SANCHEZ: Yes. That's at the Channel Island apparently where these things were kept.
Miles O'Brien, that's why we have you. Appreciate it. Appreciate your expertise.
Cold case gets hot again. OUT IN THE OPEN tonight. The latest on a notorious escaped killer. Also, an eye opening report every parent needs to see. How many teenagers are having sex?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): How prevalent is teen sex?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's 55 percent of teenagers.
SANCHEZ: How different from our day?
GENARLOW WILSON, SEX OFFENDER: Some idiotic things in my teen years.
SANCHEZ: He admits what he did was wrong. But 10 years in prison? Is it about prosecutors run amok?
The California fires. Are they out yet? Should they have been put out sooner? I go mano-a-mano with the governor who hates girlymen.
SANCHEZ (on camera): Governor, I don't want to be a girlyman. Let me ask you one tough question if you don't mind. OK?
SANCHEZ (voice-over): He says these big planes can't fly in big winds. We checked the facts and bring it OUT IN THE OPEN for you.
SANCHEZ: Look what happened on live television. What the --
Also, Argentina's former First Lady becomes Argentina's president. Hmm, I wonder if that could happen here? Busy show, breaking news, all this on OUT IN THE OPEN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. Something we have to talk about. I mean, I'm a parent. I have four kids. I've got a couple of teenagers. It's embarrassing for me, maybe for you as well. Our "Vital Signs" segment tonight.
With Genarlow Wilson's case as a back drop that we've been talking about tonight with the exclusive interview, we want to share with you now some statistics on teen sex. This is going to surprise you because it's a bit different from the rules of the road as - remember, when we used to know them?
Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has been checking the stats for us.
You know, it's not just Genarlow. This is something that seems to be going on with kids all over the country, where they seem to be saying, "Oral sex is OK because it's very different from going all the way." Am I right?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. What experts have told us and what teens have told me when I talked to them is that oral sex is different from intercourse.
And so oral sex has become sort of one of the basis if you will, if you remember the bases, Rick...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
COHEN: ... back in high school. Oral sex wasn't on the bases when you and I were in high school.
SANCHEZ: No.
COHEN: But it sure is now. Actually, let's take a look at some statistics. In the early 1980s, there was a study from the Guttmacher Institute that said 20 percent of teens engaged in oral sex. And then if you fast forward to 2002, it's 55 percent of teenagers.
The folks who we've talked to just said that it's more acceptable. It's more the thing to do and it has the obvious advantage that nobody gets pregnant and you have a much, much smaller chance of transmitting any kind of sexually transmitted disease. So it's --
SANCHEZ: Is it really a thinking that just permeates, you know, the teenage underclass? Where they're actually going around -- oh, I'm not going to use the word "bragging" but being half hazard about it, where in the past, it would have been something that would be very taboo, wouldn't it?
COHEN: Right. In the past, it would have been something that teens wouldn't have talked about as much. It wasn't sort of as much a part of the lexicon, if you will, of teenage sexual behavior. Whereas now, it is more.
Now, are they, you know, having oral sex in the high school hallways? That's not what we're hearing. And there's certainly have been articles that make this way out of proportion. They make it sound as if kids are doing this every where on the school bus, you name it.
And that's certainly not the impression that we get when we talk to people. But it definitely does seems to be something that is more acceptable and more talked about. And in both directions, girls giving oral sex to boys and vice versa.
SANCHEZ: In the case of Genarlow Wilson, this was at a party, somebody was taking tape, a videotape, and shooting something that was going on. So what one was doing to the other, others were seeing as well.
COHEN: All of these boundaries sort of get blurred for this generation. And I think what you are definitely seeing, from people that we've talked to is that having oral sex with someone, it's not the same thing as having intercourse. It's just sort of something you might not do with your -- you know, just with a steady boyfriend.
It's something that seems, it is less of a commitment. It is less intimate, if you will.
SANCHEZ: Yes, and that's a problem and it's something we certainly need to keep a check on.
Elizabeth Cohen, thanks so much for that report. Eye opening.
Should Genarlow Wilson still be in jail? You tell us. We got a quick vote going at CNN.COM/OUTINTHEOPEN. Check it out.
Also, remember this guy? He is an escaped prisoner. But the cop didn't realize it. Coming up, a new development on this story.
And if you haven't seen this, it is a must-see. Maybe the most incredible football finish ever. Fifteen laterals. You'll see it from start to finish. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: "BizBreak" now, so let's get right to it on Wall Street. Stocks moved up, despite record oil prices. The Dow rose 63 points. Nasdaq picked up 13 points. The S&P gained 5 points.
Also, oil prices surged to a new record high today. Approaching 94 barrels -- or pardon me, $94 a barrel. The weakening dollar helped push oil prices higher. In Mexico, cut oil production.
In the face of tropical storm warnings, oil has gone up 10 percent since last week.
LARRY KING LIVE is coming up in just a little bit. I got to do his show last week, and I kind of understand now why he is one of the most popular and best known people on all of television. You know why?
LARRY KING, HOST: Why?
SANCHEZ: You got a great staff.
KING: Oh, we do. I thought you're going to say, they suddenly found they held a parade for you. Accolades were coming from all over the world.
SANCHEZ: No. No. I kid. I kid. It's all you, man. You're fabulous. You know you're my hero.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Well, you did it. You did a great job. I flew back home and I saw the midnight repeat on the West Coast and you did a superb job.
SANCHEZ: Thanks.
KING: I'm very proud of you.
SANCHEZ: There's a lot coming from you, man.
KING: Oh, you're doing great work, Rick. You -- I think you ought to stay in this business.
SANCHEZ: Yes, for a little while. So what have you got?
KING: We got a panel discussion on that tragedy in Carolina, that terrible fire that took seven lives of students. And then a major panel discussion on a breakthrough report today that could help in the fight against autism.
The American Pediatric Association issued a report that is being hailed as the way it looks at autism and the early spotting of it. This could be -- this could change the way this disease look. I don't know if it's going to lead to a cure, but we got a very, very, very interesting panel discussion. That's all at the top of the hour, Rick.
SANCHEZ: That's good stuff. I look forward to it, Larry.
KING: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right. Now, we'd like to bring you some of the very best video out there every single day. So here's one, the victory celebration for Argentina's new president. That's her. Cristina Fernandez or in this country we say Fernandez.
Argentinians elected her yesterday. She's going to take over December 10, from her husband. Do you think that could happen anywhere else? A woman president who used to be First Lady? Hmm. Things that make you go hmm.
Coming up. Remember the escaped inmate who fought his way right by a Louisiana police officer. Boy, was that police officer embarrassed? Now, there is a new development.
Also, stand by. There's still time to tell us if you think Genarlow Wilson - let's switch the picture - there you go. If you think Genarlow Wilson should be in jail. Vote at CNN.COM/OUTINTHEOPEN. We'll tell you what the results are.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. One of America's most wanted awaits extradition tonight in a Canadian jail. He is a prison Houdini, some have said.
Richard McNair is his name. He has made a career out of breaking out of cells and talking his way out of trouble. He escaped in custody five times, twice by busting out of a maximum security prison.
CNN's Susan Roesgen has been following McNair's trail ever since there was one amazing encounter that he had with a police officer in Louisiana, a run in, by the way, that was caught on the officer's dash cam.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: What color eyes you got?
RICHARD MCNAIR, PRISON ESCAPE ARTIST: Green, well kind of a turquoise blue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: Turquoise blue? You wanna give me some more? You know the bad thing about it? You're matching up to him? SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Who could forget this small town Louisiana cop getting fooled by a smooth talking killer? That was more than a year ago and Richard McNair has been impossible to catch ever since.
McNair's story begins with a burglary at a grain elevator in Minot, North Dakota in 1987. As he snuck-in, he was startled by the office manager and shot him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, OFFICE MANAGER: I think he took me down like this, to my back. I ended up, I don't know if I hit these drawers. I ended up just missing the drawers, I guess. Right in here.
ROESGEN: Thinking the manager was dead, McNair shot and killed a truck driver outside the office. Convicted of murder, McNair was sent to the North Dakota State Prison, where he escaped by crawling out an air vent.
Recaptured, he came close to escaping several more times and wound up at the federal prison in Pollock, Louisiana. There he worked in the prison mail room sorting mail bags like these.
ROESGEN (on camera): Prison officials won't say exactly how he did it. But somehow, McNair made an enclosure inside a stack of mailbags, sort of like a beaver dam, crawled inside it, had more mailbags on top, shrink wrapped, and then he was wheeled on a pallet right outside the prison walls.
ROESGEN (voice-over): That was in April of 2006. And after fooling the Louisiana cop, McNair was spotted two weeks later, 1,000 miles away in Canada. He seemed to have vanished until the big break last week.
Canadian Mounties in New Brunswick spotted this stolen van and chased the driver on foot a quarter of a mile. Until they tackled him, they didn't know they had captured the infamous Richard McNair.
CONSTABLE NELSON LEVESQUE, ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE: At that point, he told me that I just -- we all got a big fish.
ROESGEN: But the big fish can be slippery. Just ask that small town cop back in Louisiana.
OFFICER CARL BORDELON, POLICE DEPT., BALL, LOUISIANA: Be careful, buddy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
BORDELON: All right.
Still in a shocked stage here that it's -- you know, once I see him face to face, then I'll know it's true.
ROESGEN: The irony is that if McNnair had never escaped in the first place, he would probably have been paroled by now and be free.
Susan Roesgen, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: We've got a crack staff that goes through and picks the best videos of the day for you. We've got one right now. Everybody is talking about this, so you've got to watch it. Here we go.
It's a college football game, division three in Texas. There's only one play left. There's no time left, so they can't get tackled. This play can't end. They have to figure out a way to get that little pigskin in the end zone. So here we go.
One guy gets the ball to another guy who then has to lateral it backward. So you have another guy, who yet has to lateral it backward to another guy. He figures out a way to keep the ball going. Even though they're going backward at this point, they don't seem to be going in the right direction.
He is about to be taken out, so he laterals it back to another guy who then looks like for one some big -- oh, I can't wait. You've got an offensive lineman coming up here. He is going to get the ball on his hands for a little while, too. And then, he is going to be able to lateral it. But wait a minute.
Now they're down about the 20 yard line. There's a possibility that they might actually be able to -- no, it couldn't be. Nobody could lateral the ball 15 times and score. Was he down?
No. He lateralled it to that big lineman who then gave it to another back, who then gives it to number seven. Number seven takes it into the end zone.
Folks, can you believe this? They're calling this the most amazing finish in the history of the football. Fifteen different laterals. There you have it.
Should Genarlow Wilson still be in prison? Coming up the results of tonight's quick vote poll. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Here's another video you got to see. See this right here? Watch this. I saw those monsters, right? But I want you to you watch -- can we, can we show this again? And I'm going to be quiet. I want you to listen to the reaction.
Look at that one girl. She jumps under the table, she's so frightened. Somebody came out with a mask. They're totally freaked out by this.
Ghosts just came out while they were doing the news. And that one girl was still under the desk. She's just not coming out. It was the morning show at KXTV in Sacramento. Unbelievable.
All right, folks. Thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate you standing by as we brought you the news on the very latest on that situation today with Genarlow Wilson.
I'm Rick Sanchez. Thanks so much for being here. LARRY KING LIVE is coming up next.
And by the way, the results from our quick poll from tonight. We've got them for you. Here's how it went.
Ninety-seven percent of you say, "No. Genarlow Wilson should not be in jail." Three percent of you said, I think he should probably still be in there and that perhaps he hasn't yet learned his lesson.
So there you go. Our results once again. Thanks so much for being with us.
Remember, tomorrow we're going to show you some more of the interview with Genarlow Wilson and his answers to questions about some of those folks who've criticized and some who've actually called him a rapist.
Once again, thanks so much for being with us. I'm Rick Sanchez. Hasta manana. Larry King coming up next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
