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Out in the Open
Baseball's Bombshell Steroids Report; Interview With Reverend Al Sharpton
Aired December 13, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Reaction tonight to a bizarre trend that we were the first to bring you. This became the most requested story on CNN.com the moment we aired it, as a matter of fact.
Take a look at some of these pictures. These are young women seemingly falling-down drunk posting pictures of themselves that were on the Internet. The response to this has been huge. And now they're firing back at us. They're firing back at each other. We're going to tell you what they have to say.
Also, Al Sharpton seems to be under investigation by the feds for possible tax fraud. The feds have been knocking on doors at 6:30 in the morning, handing out subpoenas to about 10 members of his staff. He's going to be joining us here live to defend himself.
But we're going to begin tonight with what may be the biggest baseball scandal in about a century. If you thought that steroids and cheating have compromised the game, you were right. And that means that the records of Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, and the rest have been compromised. So, who among stayed's today's players is named?
Really, the list is so long. I mean, it's so long it's impossible for us to either give it to you or even pick out famous players, because they're all famous in their own right. They're all superstars when you look at the list.
So, you're looking now at Times Square, where baseball fans are going to be sounding off about cheating. Who's at fault? I'm going to be reaching out to some ex-players as well. Jose Canseco is going to be coming by to talk to us throughout this show.
Let's turn now to CNN's Allan Chernoff, though. He's going to start us off with just the facts, the meat and potatoes in this case.
It is amazing when you look -- I know it's a 400-page -- look at that thing.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: There it is, very hefty. A lot in here, Rick. And we do have some major names. No question about it. Dozens and dozens of ball players mentioned in this report 20 months in the works.
But let's get to some of those famous names. We can mention a few of them, these people alleged to have received performance- enhancing drugs. first of all, at the top of the list, Roger Clemens, one of the greatest pitchers in the history of the ball game, and his buddy, Mr. Pettitte, Andy Pettitte, also mentioned in this list here.
We have as well David Justice, Mo Vaughn, Miguel Tejada, some of the great All-Stars in the ball game. And believe it or not, Rick, over here even though we saw some major problems here, serious steroid allegations, Senator Mitchell said he does not want to see these ball players punished.
Let's have a listen to him.
SANCHEZ: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE MITCHELL (D), FORMER U.S. SENATOR: The commissioner should give the players and everyone else the chance to make a fresh start, except where the conduct is so serious that he must act to protect the integrity of the game.
We're all human. We all make mistakes. I know that, in my life, I have made many mistakes, and I have tried to learn from them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHERNOFF: Senator Mitchell actually does want to see some tougher enforcement here. He wants year-round testing. He wants an independent organization to oversee that testing as well.
SANCHEZ: You don't have to be a baseball fan to understand what's actually happened here. And everybody's been talking -- and I don't know if you guys at home have been following this, but everybody's been talking about this asterisk.
You know what they mean by an asterisk? What they mean is that everything that these guys did over the last 10 years, and what this report seems to be confirming is that it shouldn't count. I mean, you can't compare what these guys have done to what Babe Ruth, to what Mickey Mantle, to what Hank Aaron did.
So, the question now is if he's going to give them a blank slate, which he seems to be indicating, who's going to come in there and say what these guys did has to have something next to it that says it was a dark era in baseball?
CHERNOFF: Well, you know, you have really got a situation here where we don't know how it's going to be resolved because the commissioner of baseball said he actually may punish some of these individuals.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
CHERNOFF: So, he took it. He said, you know what, we're at fault, we have got to take this seriously, we have got to clean up the ball game.
But the head of the players union, he was really pretty combative this afternoon. He was very upset that he did not get an advance copy of this. He was very upset also that he was not consulted in the selection...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But you know what that brings us to? And this is interesting. Who's to blame here? Is it the fans and the media for basically having blinders on throughout this? Is it the baseball players for wanting to use the steroids? Or is it the rich guys who own these teams who are making mucho dinero, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka- ching, while they were hitting home runs and filling all these -- putting all these butts in these seats in these stadiums?
Stay here. I want you to listen to this. This is a conversation I had just a little while ago with Shaun Assael. He's a senior writer for "ESPN" magazine. Here's what he had to say about this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: It makes us all look like hypocrites, like we're all suddenly looking at the screen and going, oh, my goodness, you mean they were doing steroids?
Come on. Who are we kidding here? Who didn't know this, right?
SHAUN ASSAEL, SENIOR WRITER, "ESPN THE MAGAZINE": Well, there were a lot of beat writers in clubhouses that they weren't watching the needle going in the butt. What were they going to do? You can watch a guy's head grow three sizes too large, but, I mean...
SANCHEZ: But when you grow as a kid and you watch home run after home run year after year -- I think somebody maybe hits 40 home runs -- and then all of a sudden in a couple years everybody is hitting 60, 70 home runs, there's something wrong.
When they go up to bat and they all look like the incredible Hulk, there's something wrong. And, what, we had our eyes closed and now we're supposed to be surprised by this?
ASSAEL: No, we're not supposed to be surprised, although we are -- what's interesting is that baseball's actually now out in front of this after a lot of years of not getting it at both the union and the commissioner's office.
Now Bud Selig wants us to believe this is his exclamation point. He's gotten religion. He's now a crusader.
SANCHEZ: And listen to this. This is cut one, Will, if you would, from the news conference that Mitchell gave today where he really gives it to Major League Baseball as an entity for allowing this to go on.
Go ahead. Play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITCHELL: The owners did not push hard for mandatory, random drug testing, because they were much more concerned about the serious economic issues facing baseball.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Because they were more concerned about the serious economic issues facing baseball. Translation, for those of you watching at home, guys are hitting home runs. There are butts in the seats. That means the stadiums are getting filled. They're making a lot of money. And why are we going to go in there and stop these guys from hitting home runs by saying they're taking steroids? That's going to hurt us. That's going to be a financial burden for us. Thereby, we will just sit back and let it happen, right?
ASSAEL: Yes, ka-ching, baby. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they just never saw the train coming at them.
SANCHEZ: I guess here's the question. Folks at home wondering, well, why did this happen?
If you have an entity that doesn't have a rule for something that you can do, aren't you going to do it if everybody else is doing it? I mean, look, here's the difference between a guy who does steroids and a guy who doesn't, maybe a private jet, perhaps three houses, a pretty darn good life, a couple of limousines. Don't take steroids, single A, a bus to Poughkeepsie.
ASSAEL: Yes. Well, that's kind of a big duh, except for the fact that there's a lot of players that really don't need it. They feel like they're OK without it, and they really do resent the guy down the bench who's bulking up and taking and trying to take their job.
And the other thing -- and I write about this in "Steroid Nation" -- these are drugs that are at the crossroads of optimism and avarice. You take this because you want to try to do well, but they're like a smoldering fire. They take you over. And the problem with baseball is that it took people over. They got too greedy.
SANCHEZ: Here's the point, though. There's plenty of blame to go around. We could probably start by looking at ourselves in the mirror because we were all paying to go to those games and we were getting a kick out of those big guys hitting those home runs.
The players seemed to go along with it. Major League Baseball seemed to say, you know what, we're making money, so let's keep going. And now finally we have got somebody saying everybody was wrong and we have got to revamp the system. So, that's where we are.
Shaun, thanks for being with us.
ASSAEL: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: We certainly appreciate it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: By the way, Shaun's book is called "Steroid Nation." We want you to know that -- we want to know what you think about this. Tell us, who's most to blame -- by the way, there's the book, "Steroid Nation" -- the players, Major League Baseball? Vote on CNN.com/Rick. And we are going to let you know what the results are.
Allan, back to you.
So, are we at the point now -- I think fans and people who are just casual observers of America's pastime would want to know, are we at the point now where things are going to change? Are we now at ground zero, we start all over, and any player caught doing something like this will be kicked out of the game, not like it was before?
CHERNOFF: We have got a plan in place, and we have had one for well over a year-and-a-half. And the union, the players union, says, hey, this is a great plan, it is working, and it is tough.
You're supposed to have a 50...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And fewer home runs this last year.
CHERNOFF: You're supposed to have a 50-game suspension. That is pretty serious if you're caught three times and you are out of the ball game.
The question is, is it really going to be enforced? Is everything going to be caught? Will people be tested without any notice?
SANCHEZ: Yes, and not to mention that...
CHERNOFF: And year-round?
SANCHEZ: Yes, and not to mention every time they have a new test, somebody comes up with a way of deceiving the test so that they can continue to do it.
We will watch it. Good job. Thorough report. We appreciate it.
Stay right there. You're going to be looking live at one of the busiest sports bars in Times Square. As we stay on this story, baseball fans are spouting off. We are going to grab a couple of them for you and let you talk about it.
Also, we're expecting Jose Canseco to stop by to talk about this.
Al Sharpton is in trouble with the feds, his staff subpoenaed. He's here, he's live, and he tells us he's going to be fighting mad.
Also, the reaction to these pictures has been incredible since we first brought it to you. The girls you see here appearing drunk say we at CNN need to get over this drinking epidemic problem. It's not a problem, they say.
Say what? Back in two.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: You may have heard of this. At 6:30 yesterday morning, FBI agents armed with subpoenas swooped down on 10 associates of the Reverend Al Sharpton.
The Reverend Al Sharpton is good enough to join us here live to talk about this now.
Thanks so much for coming in. This must be very difficult for you.
Have you gotten a handle on why this is happening?
AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: No, not at all.
First of all, it's not difficult. I can't remember in the last 20 years when I wasn't under some investigation. I'm a civil rights -- historically, we're always harassed by one form of government or another.
SANCHEZ: So you think there's a political motivation behind this?
SHARPTON: Well, Rick, two weeks ago, we marched in front of the Justice Department. For the last several months, our people have been meeting with the IRS and other agencies going through any compliances since our fire three years ago that would bring us up to date.
Then, all of a sudden, you're going to at 6:00 in the morning swoop down and subpoena people. Now, you're not arresting people. You're not...
SANCHEZ: Right.
SHARPTON: I mean, have you ever heard of a swoop-down to ask somebody to come in with documents two weeks later?
SANCHEZ: So you're having a problem with the form in which they did it?
SHARPTON: Not only the form. I think clearly the form shows that this was made for some media to just throw something out there, because you...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, hold on a minute. That's like the pot calling the kettle -- you are the king of knowing how to use the media.
SHARPTON: Well, and that's why I can sit here and tell you that, because we put so much pressure from Jena, Louisiana, this year to the march on the Justice Department that clearly I expected that they were going to come. How many investigations this year alone have you heard about that they were going to do... (CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But how does it filter down from the top dogs in the Justice Department to, let's get Al Sharpton?
SHARPTON: Well, I don't know how...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Why the hell would they want to do that?
SHARPTON: Well, you would have to ask yourself, why would you go 6:00 in the morning to serve some information subpoenas? I want documents. I don't want you and I'm not taking nothing now. Come in two weeks, the day after Christmas, when very few people are even in the courthouse, and bring some documents.
SANCHEZ: Right. So how should they have done it?
SHARPTON: If you're already in touch with the organization, say I would like to talk to the following people and see documents, since you're talking to people anyway, and since we have gone through three or four investigations this year anyway.
I mean, why would you -- four of them are single mothers. Why were you trying to terrify people at home? Because it wouldn't get in the paper if you did it this way. So, let's act like this is the Cosa Nostra.
SANCHEZ: So, you're saying it shouldn't have been done in such an aggressive manner?
SHARPTON: Well, I think that the aggression shows the bias of some of those that are involved in whatever the process is.
SANCHEZ: Do you think it's racist?
SHARPTON: I think that some of it could be. Could be. I don't know. I don't know who's doing it.
SANCHEZ: Yes, I don't want to put words in your mouth.
(CROSSTALK)
SHARPTON: No, I don't know who's doing it. I think clearly there is bias. And I think it's clearly political. The timing -- everyone knows that I am continuing to fight against the Justice Department now dealing with hate crimes. And I'm going to continue to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Let's get down to brass tacks here, you and I. All right?
It seems that the allegations seem to be moving in the direction of you possibly committing fraud, or at least this is what they're looking into. We don't want people to think that has been...
(CROSSTALK)
SHARPTON: If that was the case, then why wouldn't they be going to people that conduct my accounting business and legal business? Why would they be going to the receptionist and the publicist?
SANCHEZ: Well, let me just ask you up front.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Hold on. Let me ask you up front. You have not-for- profit organizations, like...
(CROSSTALK)
SHARPTON: No, I have a not-for-profit organization, the National Action Network.
SANCHEZ: Right, the National Action Network, right? And then you have other businesses that...
(CROSSTALK)
SHARPTON: I do a syndicated radio show. I write books. I do a syndicated television show.
I had one reporter say to me today, you have a nice suit. I have four -- that's like me asking you how you buy your suit. You get paid to do this show.
SANCHEZ: I have a right to have a nice suit, right.
SHARPTON: So, why would you assume that I don't get paid if I'm on in 40 markets...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: That's B.S. That's not a fair question. I agree. I agree.
(CROSSTALK)
SHARPTON: That is what they're saying.
SANCHEZ: But let me be journalistically sound here and ask you a question, as best I can.
Have you ever taken funds from your non-profits and filtered it, or commingled it is the word I think that's being suggested, into a for-profit organization? Have you ever done that?
SHARPTON: Well, the fact of the matter is, not only have I not done that; I have loaned enormous amounts of money to the National Action Network from my profit ventures, when they could not make things like payroll and bills. Even right now, they owe me a lot of money.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
SHARPTON: Because sometimes in the -- first of all, when you have a tragedy, a police shooting, sometimes, the non-profit can't help the family. I lend the money.
So, what they're going see -- and they could have easily seen it if they had just sat down with our people -- is the amounts of money that I have loaned National Action Network. And, when National Action Network recoups, they repay it.
SANCHEZ: So, just to be on the record, you have never taken money from a non-profit, the National Action Network, and used it in any other for-profit cause?
SHARPTON: No, absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And they're not going to find that in these things that they have subpoenaed?
SHARPTON: And not only will they not find it. My for-profit companies are funded by my contracts as a radio and television host and an author and my lectures that I do in colleges and all of that.
SANCHEZ: Let me press you a little more, because it's my job.
You gave back $100,000 after -- to the Federal Election Commission, right?
SHARPTON: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And at the time you had been asked whether you had in any way used that money improperly. You said no. But then you ended up giving the money back.
SHARPTON: No, that was a disagreement with the Federal Elections Commission. And everybody, including some of those running for president now, has had to pay fines or -- that's all that was. I disagreed...
SANCHEZ: Right.
But, you know, I'm asking the question for this reason, Reverend. At that point, people would say, well, he said at that point that there was nothing wrong and he ended up giving the money. Is he going to end up going back this time and doing the same thing?
(CROSSTALK)
SHARPTON: No. Well, let me answer you.
SANCHEZ: Go ahead. SHARPTON: If -- people should say, if the Federal Elections Commission sat there and settled that with him, then what are you talking about that for now two years later? Because, if he did something wrong, then why did they settle with him and get the money back?
You wait two years after you get the money. You make a settlement.
SANCHEZ: Right.
SHARPTON: You make a charge from the Election Commission. I answer it. We argue it, and we settle. So, then what are you investigating two years later? Then why did you settle?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And, to be fair, that charge is totally different from what we're talking about in this case...
(CROSSTALK)
SHARPTON: Well, first of all, we don't know what we're talking about in this case, do we?
SANCHEZ: No, we don't.
SHARPTON: We know that at 6:00 in the morning, rather than calling some people and saying I want to see these documents, we're going to swoon in, and we're going to Rick Sanchez and everybody to feel like these ladies, who do nothing but cooperate, had to be awakened at 6:00 in the morning.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: That's why I wanted you here. That's why I wanted you on the record saying the things that you did.
SHARPTON: And that's why I wanted to come. And that's why I want to make it clear that I and National Action Network will continue to march, continue to fight for justice.
And everybody that is much, much, much better in civil rights than me, from Martin Luther King to Marcus Garvey, had to face IRS problems. So, clearly, this is the way the government deals with people in my field. I'm prepared for it.
I ran for U.S. Senate once under tax indictment. I'm prepared for it. But we're going to keep on fighting, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Reverend Al Sharpton, I respect you for coming in and taking the heat.
(CROSSTALK)
SHARPTON: I respect you for asking the questions. At least you didn't wake somebody up at 6:00 in the morning.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Not for that reason anyway.
SHARPTON: No.
SANCHEZ: I appreciate it, the Reverend Al Sharpton once again.
SHARPTON: Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right.
Take a look at some of these pictures now. We're going to be following this for you. Ever since we ran this story, this Facebook trend, it has been one of the hottest topics on CNN.com. What are these girls thinking? They look seemingly drunk, in some cases worse than that. And now they're complaining. We're going to bring you their story.
Also, take a look at these guys. We're going to get some live reaction from some of the folks. This is one of the most busy bars, sports bars in all of the United States. It's in Times Square, of course. And we're going to be gathering some of the fans there. They're sounding off on this baseball bombshell today.
Also, we want to know what you think. Who is most to blame about this? Is it the players who took the steroids, purportedly, or is it Major League Baseball, that kind of turned the other cheek and said, you know what, we're making a lot of money, let's let it happen? Vote now at CNN.com/Rick, CNN.com/Rick.
Your answers coming up in just a little bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not surprised at the results. I think a lot of players were just using steroids, but not coming forward about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think it's great that players are finally going to be held accountable for their actions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a mother of three sons and a grandmother of five children, I certainly would not promote it, and I think they need to be better role models out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There's that role model thing once again.
Welcome back to OUT IN THE OPEN. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Fans are speaking out about the biggest sports, certainly baseball scandal to ever hit in maybe 100 years, since the Black Sox scandal, the Mitchell report out today on steroids use in baseball.
Now let's hear from some of those fans. They have been lining up for us. They're joining us right now.
This is Tonic. It's a sports bar on Times Square.
Fabio (ph), raise your hand. Fabio, raise your hand.
All right. Jennifer (ph), I see you there in the middle.
And, Michael (ph), that's you on the right, huh?
All right. Excellent.
Let's start with you, Fabio. Are you disappointed in baseball? Are you disappointed in some of your favorite baseball players?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that for me?
SANCHEZ: Yes, I am. I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it's really...
SANCHEZ: Go ahead, any one of you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it's really surprising. I don't think it's really surprising in the end. I think it just -- it's affirmation of what people already thought. I think it's a good thing that it came out and people finally get resolution to what they already believe, and now people can kind of understand it and move on.
SANCHEZ: Jennifer, do you think this is cheating?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is cheating.
I mean, you can ask anyone in here, and I think they wouldn't be surprised either. And what I would like to pose is that these people, like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, that have all these records, should they be allowed to keep their records, when someone like Pete Rose, who also cheated, was not allowed to keep his record? Which I also do not agree with.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Do you think that baseball is now compromised, certainly in terms of what's gone on over the over the past 10 years, the records are compromised, the game is compromised, those players are compromised?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think you can take away people's merit and talent or numbers even. The home runs they made are the number of the home runs they made. And I don't know. Maybe in the books, put an asterisk by their name. But unfortunately there's no way to go back and change what they did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the integrity of baseball's been lost for a while, and I think these home runs and everything are suspect because these guys that are 38 years old would not be hitting 50 home runs a year had they not been on the anabolic steroids and HGH for the last 20 years.
So, I think it should all be taken back. And I think that baseball is -- has lost its integrity and that it has a lot of legwork to do in order to gain the American public's opinion back, because I personally was a huge baseball fan, and I have lost the luster of the game because of all this. I wasn't surprised by this at all.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Michael, I want to ask you a question. How many home runs do you think Mickey Mantle would have hit if he had been juiced this way?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's hard to say. I think it's always speculation. I think you can't go back and say Mantle plus steroids would add 30 more home runs. I think it was a different era.
Do I think he could have had 70, 80 plus with steroids in that era? You know, certainly. But, you know, I think you can't go back and try and rewrite the record books.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: OK.
Hey, guys, I have just been told that, you know, the very first person to come out and say there's a problem in baseball, it has to do with steroids, Jose Canseco, has just gotten here. We're putting a microphone on him.
When we come back, this interview with Jose Canseco. And we're going to ask him, I mean, does he feel now vindicated, because there were a whole lot of people criticizing him when he made these charges? Stay with us. We will have that for you.
Also, this: these young women who look like they're just falling- down drunk, and they have put the pics up on the Internet. The reaction to this has been intense, some of it coming from some of these young ladies. We're going to share that with you.
And then we want to hear from you about this baseball steroids scandal. Who's really to blame in all of this, the players or major league baseball? CNN.com/Rick. CNN.com/Rick. That's me. It's the place to go to cast your vote.
Also, with all the work that needs to be done in Washington, Congress has spent its last few days before the holiday recess working on something very special for all Americans, and we're going to tell you what that is. Stay with us. Back in two.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Before we do anything else, I want to show you something. This list that was put out today is so big. See that right there? I should say right there. See that? We can't -- if I was to start reading all the names on this list to you, I'd be here throughout the entire newscast and you wouldn't be able to see it. And we also can't pick out just, you know, well, how many famous people are on there, how many superstars are on there.
They're all superstars in their own right. They've all won MVPs or set some kind of record. So the best we can do for you is what we're doing right now. I'm going to roll it. And while my next guest tonight discuss this, we'll continue to roll it so you could see it.
You may recall Jose Canseco. He wrote the book about steroids literally. The book was called "Juiced." Good book, by the way. Good read. I'd recommend it. "Juiced: Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits, and How Baseball Got Big." Speaking of big, there's Jose Canseco. Thanks so much for coming out here and joining us.
JOSE CANSECO, FMR. MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYER: I really appreciate it.
SANCHEZ: You know, when you wrote this, people said you're lying, you're exaggerating, you're just trying to sell a book. You're mean spirited.
CANSECO: It's crazy.
SANCHEZ: They said a lot of really horrible things. They said this day would never come, that you'd be wrong.
CANSECO: Well, I even got death threats especially when I was on book tour. We had to cut it short at one point. But I just wanted to people to know what happened to me, why I disappeared at the age of 37, 38 home runs short of 500 home runs, why I disappeared from baseball completely, why major league baseball blackballed me out of the game. And you know, I tried to get back into the game because I love the game but just didn't have that chance from major league baseball. And --
SANCHEZ: Do you feel vindicated today? Do you feel like you know what, I was right, they were wrong, and the Mitchell Commission is saying that, in black and white?
CANSECO: Well, absolutely. You know, it is something tragic, though, when you look at the overall picture. But the positive part about it is that, I mean, the fanfare I don't think that's been effective because you see year in year out, I mean, 10 to 15 percent more fans, more team revenues in major league baseball whether the steroid issue, you know, looms over major league baseball. It's amazing.
SANCHEZ: You did steroids.
CANSECO: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And you admitted to it.
CANSECO: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Did it make you a different baseball player, a different athlete?
CANSECO: You know, I don't know. I have no way of comparing, you know, being off steroids when I was playing baseball to on steroids, though, when I was --
SANCHEZ: You were the first one to hit 40 home runs and steal 40 bases.
CANSECO: Right.
SANCHEZ: For those who don't understand baseball, that's huge. Did you do that after you started getting juiced?
CANSECO: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: You did?
CANSECO: Yes, I did.
SANCHEZ: You think it had something to do with it?
CANSECO: I'm assuming yes, it did.
SANCHEZ: Do you think Bobby Bonds record was somehow influenced by whatever he may have taken allegedly?
CANSECO: Barry.
SANCHEZ: Barry Bonds. His brother was Bobby.
CANSECO: I don't know. I mean, I would say yes because it does have, you know, a psychological boost. It does have a physical boost, and once you have those two combinations and ability behind it, you know, all records can be broken. So I don't know how much per individual, but yes, definitely.
SANCHEZ: The names of the -- look at the size of this man. Look at the size of his head. Look how different he looks from when he was a young doubles hitter. Is it fair for viewers and for people in the media to look at these guys and say you know what, this is pretty obvious, why didn't we recognize this?
CANSECO: Right.
SANCHEZ: Why did Jose Canseco have to tell us?
CANSECO: I think there were more players that were obvious than not. For example, I remember one, Lenny Dykstra. This is a gentleman who was 5'8", 5'9", he gained 30, 40 pounds during the off-season. Thirty, 40 pounds on a frame that's probably 5'9", I mean, that's a huge difference.
SANCHEZ: Right. CANSECO: You know, Bonds is a tall man. He's 6'3", 6'4". I think he got up to 250. I'm 6'4", I was 250. But I think early on when you looked at my body frame, I looked like a body builder playing baseball or a football player playing baseball...
SANCHEZ: Right.
CANSECO: ... back in the mid to late '80s where you really didn't see that. So I think people were wondering, you know, where's are they getting that physique from that size and that speed?
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you maybe the ultimate question. So what if people take steroids? Maybe we ought to let them take steroids, some would argue. What would you say to those folks?
CANSECO: Well, first of all, it's illegal, number one. But back then when we started using steroids, it was not illegal. It was not against major league baseball.
SANCHEZ: Exactly.
CANSECO: And growth hormone wasn't really illegal as I think 1990 or '91.
SANCHEZ: So do you believe baseball should ban this substance altogether? And these players --
CANSECO: If it's illegal they have to ban it, no doubts about it. Now, people talk about, you know, even playing field. At the height of baseball use, it was an even playing field because 80 percent of players were using steroids. It was just a juiced game.
SANCHEZ: Wow. Hey, thanks so much for coming by and seeing us.
CANSECO: Thank you, Rick, for having me.
SANCHEZ: You look good.
CANSECO: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: You still go out there and hit a few?
CANSECO: Softball.
SANCHEZ: Jose Canseco. Don't forget tonight's "Quick Vote," by the way. Who's most to blame for this illegal steroid situation in baseball? Is it the players who took it or major league baseball who, wink, wink, looked the other way? Cast your vote. CNN.com/Rick.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Tonight, there's some anger that's being pointed at us for showing humiliating photos of these young women sprawled out after a night of binge drinking and for pointing out that they don't even seem embarrassed. That's because earlier this week, we reported on a social networking group on the Web site Facebook. Take a look at some of those pictures. It's amazing.
175,000 young women around the world have joined this group, and that seems to -- well, look at the -- Will, put the pictures back up once again. Let's let the viewers decide. Does it glorify drinking? Does it embarrass these young ladies? These pictures that they know are being taken. It's called "30 Reasons Girls Should Call It a Night."
Let me read to you, by the way, a couple of the group's so-called reasons they do this and their complaints about us. They say reason 12, "You pass out at a party, and the next morning there is writing all over your face and limbs." "You become overly enthusiastic when someone offers you 20,000 to make out with your friend." "The urge to take off articles of clothing becomes strangely overwhelming."
Now, we've been on top of the story from the very start, and I should tell you as well that some of these young ladies are mad with us for doing this story. They say you need to get over this, you know, talking about us for doing the story.
Elizabeth Cohen, our correspondent, "You need to get over this girls drinking epidemic because it's not a problem and we are young and we're having fun," says one. Another one says, "Actually, CNN has a total right to pose these questions. I know that it is not good, but you put them out there for everyone to see, so you made them public. They blurred out the faces so they covered their butts."
All right. Let's be joined now by somebody who knows a little bit about this. Bring in child and adult psychiatrist Dr. Daniel Amen. Did I get your last name right?
DR. DANIEL AMEN, PSYCHIATRIST: Amen. Hi, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Oh, it is. OK. I just wanted to make sure I had that right. Amen to you, by the way.
These young ladies don't seem to get it. First of all, they're saying that we put the story out there. The story was on the Internet. I mean, their pictures were on the Internet in these poses. They were out there. We just brought it to the attention of viewers that something like this has been going on. Do you think maybe they don't understand the consequences of something like this?
AMEN: Well, they're not hard to find. And I don't think they understand the consequences. And that goes with being young. What a lot of people don't understand is the front part of your brain, the part that's involved in things like judgment and forethought. Impulse control is not actually fully developed until you're 25 years old.
So if you take an immature brain and then you add alcohol to it or sleep deprivation or stress or brain injury or you have ADD, at our clinics, I have four clinics around the country where we treat all of these things, it's the prescription for a lot of trouble.
SANCHEZ: Yes, 175,000 young women who join an organization that glorifies drinking, they take pictures of themselves and then they post them on the Internet, even, hey, even outside of the drinking, which we know is wrong. Think about the fact that they're putting pictures out there that somebody could use against them later on in adulthood when they try and get jobs or such.
AMEN: Oh, no question. When you apply for a job, if your employer is smart, he's going to search you on the Internet. And what I would be concerned about and I have a 20-year-old daughter is, what's their forethought like? Do they think about the consequences to their behavior?
I mean, that's really what the front part of your brain does. And when it's not working right after you have a few beers, you are less likely to be thoughtful. And that's what I would ask them is what are your goals? How does this fit with the goals you have for your life?
SANCHEZ: But there seems to be an incredible disconnect today between what the kids say and do and their particular technology and what their parents seem to perceive that they're doing because they don't understand that technology. I mean, most parents aren't on Facebook. But most kids, in fact, almost 90 percent of kids in the United States are on Facebook or some other Web site like this. So this is a new problem and a new phenomenon that we need to kind of address, don't we?
AMEN: Well, no question. And I think parents need to know what their kids are doing. I've had patients at the Amen clinics who they get engaged over the Internet to people that they've never met and then when they break it off, the guy threatens to kill them. And that's not an unusual story. You have to be thoughtful and careful. And parents need to supervise these kids until these kids can demonstrate they supervise themselves.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
AMEN: So for example, I think we send kids away to college too soon. We let them drink too soon. And I just think it's important to be thoughtful because if you protect their brains you really protect their ability.
SANCHEZ: I've got a 16 -- a 17-year-old and a 14-year-old at home, and I'm just hoping that they're listening to what you're saying right now in case I call them on it as well. Dr. Daniel Amen, thank you, sir, for taking time to talk to us.
AMEN: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: You know, in our "Life After Work" segment tonight, are you ready to get jealous? I mean really jealous. You've heard of Google, right? Everyone's heard of Google. What would I tell you if someone, before Google got big, came and said to you, we need you to do something with this new upstart company and you know what, we're going to give you some of its stock and all you've got to do is do your job? And you'd say, OK. You know how rich you'd be today? Here's Ali Velshi.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Google. Search engine, tech giant, and for retired massage therapist Bonnie Brown, Google was the job opportunity of a lifetime.
BONNIE BROWN, RETIRED MASSAGE THERAPIST: A friend of my sister's called one day and said, "I read in the paper that there's a company called Google looking for a full-time massage therapist. I think you should probably send them your resume." So I said all right. I sent the resume in.
VELSHI: That was back when Google was a small startup of only 50 people. And when Brown was offered the job, she made a savvy decision, negotiating her compensation.
BROWN: I'll give you guys 10 hours a week, $45 an hour is fine, and I'd like options. And she agreed. We put it into the contract.
VELSHI: Those options changed her life, and they couldn't have come at a better time for Brown. Her marriage had just ended, leaving her a single mom with two teenage kids to raise. Plus, the private children's school she ran had gone under.
Massage therapy went from being a hobby into a career at Google. Five years of massages and thousands of stock options later, her life turned around dramatically.
BROWN: Valentine's Day of 2005, I knew that if I pushed send on the computer that I was going to be a millionaire. And it was quite a moment.
VELSHI: So Brown cashed out and retired. Now, she's written a book about her experience and helps fund charitable groups that assist poor people in third world countries.
BROWN: After the IPO, I started a foundation. It's a private foundation. And that enables me to carry on something that has always been a part of my life, and that is helping people less fortunate.
VELSHI: Ali Velshi, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And guess what we're going to be bringing OUT IN THE OPEN for you in just a little bit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The House will be in order. The chair lays before the house a communication --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We're going to tell you about one important new procedure. What important new resolution our Congress has tackled. We'll have it for you in just a little bit. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: With have so many problems in the country, wars and Iraq and Afghanistan, gas prices, the mortgage mess. You will be happy to know that our Congress is on the ball. Here now, a dramatic moment in the House of Representatives that shows our lawmakers rolling up their sleeves and getting to work on what's really important to the American people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: House Resolution 847, resolution recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, you heard it right. After much debate, the House has passed a resolution reaffirming Christmas and the Christian faith. The vote, 372-9.
Representative Steve King from Iowa sponsored the measure and is here now to defend it. Thank you so much, sir, for being here. Why the need to affirm something that we already know, revere and respect?
REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: I wish that were the case. And for the most part we do already know, revere and respect. But about two months ago, the House of Representatives moved a resolution that honored and respected the Islam religion for the month of Ramadan, the holy month.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
KING: And then a few weeks later, a resolution came forward to honor and respect a religious holiday that's celebrated in India that for Hindus, Sikhs, and about two other religions. And it became apparent that there was an effort to identify other religions and it was a significant void in the House of Representatives. So I concluded that I should draft a resolution to recognize Christmas as well.
SANCHEZ: So how did the votes go on those, by the way? Let me ask you.
KING: There was no opposition to either one of the resolutions for either Ramadan or the Diwali, the Indian holiday resolution.
SANCHEZ: Really?
KING: That's correct.
SANCHEZ: But you're meaning that -- are you telling me that when you try to pass a Christian resolution, you had nine votes against it? And when you tried to pass a Ramadan or as what? Zwahali?
KING: Diwali.
SANCHEZ: Yes, the Diwali one, nobody voted against it?
KING: That is correct, Rick. And I think what it does is it confirms that there's a significant anti-Christian bias in this country. And you know, we watched the effort across the country to remove Christ from Christmas, to take Christians out of the classroom, and take it out of the public square and take it out of Macy's and take it out of the private sector businesses.
And with all of that going on, one would wonder where's the force of that coming from? Well, the floor of Congress is a reflection of the mosaic of America. And in at least nine of those congressional districts, I believe that there's a significant anti-Christian biases, which --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But listen, would you not agree that, you know what, with all the stuff that's going on in this world you guys have your hands full, Representative Steve King? Why are we even voting on Ramadan or Diwali or even the Christian faith?
KING: I can tell you --
SANCHEZ: Why are we having a vote on something like that? I mean, as important -- I'm a Christian. I pray with my children. We talk about this all the time. I try to live a Christ-like life. I sin. But you know what, I don't want you guys doing this. I want you guys trying to solve the problem in Iraq and the situation going on with the economy.
KING: Fair enough. And we would not have brought up the Christian resolution, the Christmas resolution, if it hadn't been for the other two. That's what made it imperative. But I think the public doesn't know that at least one night a week, we are doing suspension calendar votes. So the same night, we named a post office in Michigan and we celebrated or we honored the centennial celebration of a town that we haven't heard of in Texas.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
KING: We honored a pilot that I hadn't heard of before, and we also honored the volunteers that cleaned up the oil spill in San Francisco, Nancy Pelosi's resolution.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: OK. OK.
I get it. And you know what?
KING: Yes.
SANCHEZ: You make a good argument for what you did and why you did it, and it certainly is a good explanation to me because I became in looking at this a little bit differently. Representative Steve King, thanks for being with us, and God bless you, sir. KING: May God bless you, and merry Christmas to everybody.
SANCHEZ: All right. It's not too late to vote in tonight's "Quick Vote." Who's most to blame for illegal steroids in baseball? The players or major league baseball? Go to CNN.com/Rick. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It's called the Mitchell Commission Report, and we've just been told that "LARRY KING LIVE" has got a heck of a get tonight. He's going to be talking with George Mitchell, who has been working diligently now for months to prepare this report which really is an embarrassment for the state of major league baseball. It clearly presents a situation where many baseball players seemed, at least according to this, to be involved in steroids one way or another.
So the question that we asked you tonight was a simple one. Who's really to blame for this? Was it the players who took the steroids, or was it the owners and major league baseball itself, who seemed to know what was going on but because a lot of people were going to the games and because they were making a lot of money allowed it to happen? Here's how you voted.
Forty-five percent say the players are to blame. The others say that baseball -- 55 percent say it's major league baseball's fault.
All right. Here we go. We leave you now with this, by the way. Elected to the rock n' roll Hall of Fame is the Day Clark Band. Check it out. How about this for music, huh? (INAUDIBLE) Larry King.
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