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Out in the Open
Interview With Reverend Al Sharpton; Criminals Gone Wild
Aired December 17, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: You're only going to see this here, not FOX, not on MSNBC -- tonight, a follow-up to our report about Reverend Al Sharpton being investigated by the FBI. Now there are reports that he was secretly recorded on a hidden camera by the FBI while supposedly doing a deal.
Al Sharpton going be joining us live to talk about this allegation.
Also, Will, put that video up. We want to show them this story.
Has the reality craze come to this now? Are these real crimes, including shootings, being filmed as they happen? You should see this tape that we have gotten our hands on. We have got four guests, several accusations. And this thing could get really loud. So, stand by.
Speaking of loud, look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All we want is our laws enforced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yelling, shouting, some of these folks want to crack down on illegal immigrants. Some are calling this abuse. This is in Maricopa County in Arizona, as you may have suspected. It's a mirror, though, of what is happening in different parts of the country. Immigrant activists are angry that sheriff's deputies are acting as federal agents. That's the charge. And guess who is right in the middle of this? Joe Arpaio, the self-described toughest, meanest sheriff in America. Happens to be looking pretty tough and stern as we look at him there.
Stand by, Sheriff. We are going to talk to you in just a little bit.
First, we asked our correspondent Kara Finnstrom to get into the thick of this thing that you just saw and show us what this controversy is really all about.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's feared. He's revered. Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County says that, if the federal government and Phoenix police won't enforce immigration laws, he will.
JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA, SHERIFF: We're enforcing the state law. We're enforcing the federal law, and we are going to keep doing it regardless of lawsuits against me, critics picketing, showing my signs in front of this furniture store, calling me a KKK, a Nazi.
FINNSTROM: For the past several weeks, protests have been erupting in an unlikely place every Saturday, outside this furniture store, protests drawing Hispanic families, Minutemen, even mariachi musicians.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They call us racists because we don't like illegal aliens? I keep asking them, what race is illegal alien? It's a law thing. It's not a race thing.
FINNSTROM: It all started when the furniture store owner made a move to drive Hispanic day laborers away from his business.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Negotiating with potential employers in our parking lots and getting picked up and waving people down.
FINNSTROM: Mike Sensing (ph) hired Arpaio's off-duty deputies for security. And Arpaio sent in extra neighborhood patrols.
ARPAIO: We're patrolling. And if there's anybody violating the immigration laws, we arrest them.
FINNSTROM: His deputies' traffic stops resulted in 60 arrests for immigration violations. The sheriff's tough tactics fueled the protest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me my ticket, and that's it. Why you ask me if I'm legal just because I look Mexican? Yes, I'm Mexican, but I'm legal in this country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it envisioned for a private individual to be hiring off-duty officers to actually intimidate a whole neighborhood and basically racial profile an entire community.
FINNSTROM (on camera): As tense as the debate is right now, it's expected to become even more heated come January 1.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: January 1, hasta la vista, baby.
FINNSTROM (voice-over): That's when a new law takes effect here, allowing the state of Arizona and Sheriff Arpaio to punish businesses that knowingly hire undocumented workers. Also expected in the new year, a decision on whether Phoenix's police department, which is separate from Sheriff Arpaio's department, should also be given more authority to crack down on illegal immigrants.
Joe Arpaio has now had 160 deputies federally trained to investigate immigration violations.
ARPAIO: I have lost some support possibly with the Hispanic community. That's OK. When you're 80 percent in the polls, you can take a 3 percent hit.
FINNSTROM: So, Sheriff Arpaio's says his deputies will keep rolling into neighborhoods, regardless of whatever protests come their way.
Kara Finnstrom, for CNN, Phoenix.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: What a story. What a controversy.
Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio has known all about this. He's been following this for quite some time, received a lot of heat and stood his ground. Along with day organizer Salvador Reza. He's the one who has been leading some of those protests that have been taking place there. You saw him on the tape as well.
Mr. Reza, go ahead. Let's begin with you. Make the charge that you feel you need to make as what the sheriff may have done wrong in this case.
SALVADOR REZA, DAY LABOR ORGANIZER: Well, the main thing that he did wrong was that he allowed a private individual to do immigration work. A private individual hired off-duty officers to actually go and patrol the whole neighborhood and intimidate a whole neighborhood.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me stop you there, as we look at some of these pictures.
Let's bring Sheriff Arpaio in.
He seems to be making the charge, Sheriff, as you heard, that you allowed sheriffs to go in and work for a private individual. Is that true?
ARPAIO: Well, we do that all the time. Off-duty cops do support and are paid for, for private industry. That's no difference on this situation. We are not paying for those people. The company is paying for it.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let's take that back to Mr. Reza, though, because that seems like a perfectly reasonable explanation.
If you're having a basketball game or an event even at your house, you can hire off-duty police officers to come and work. What's wrong with that, Mr. Reza?
REZA: Well, the 287-G accords does not say that a private individual can hire immigration officers. And this is what this guy did, Mr. Sensing (ph). He hired immigration officers to patrol a whole neighborhood. That is not acceptable.
(CROSSTALK)
ARPAIO: Wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
REZA: The 287-G agreement should be looked at again.
SANCHEZ: Let the sheriff have something to say here.
(CROSSTALK)
ARPAIO: Well, first of all, I know Salvador is not going like that. Right now, we just locked up 20 more an hour ago. And we're going continue to enforce the state law and the federal law.
I have 160 officers trained to do that. And I'm not going to be intimidated by him and his slanderous billboards and everything else that he has up. So, I'm going to tell him another thing. We're going back in that area again Wednesday, when he's going start marching from Pruitt (ph) to City Hall.
SANCHEZ: Go ahead, Mr. Reza.
REZA: Well, most of the people that are going there are U.S. citizens and residents. So, he's welcome to do it.
But the thing is, he's using traffic stops to actually intimidate the whole neighborhood, not only the neighborhood, but entire county of Maricopa.
SANCHEZ: So, explain what you mean by that. People at home are saying he's using that to intimidate. How is he using that to intimidate?
REZA: OK. He stops and profiles only Mexican people or Latino people that are driving through those neighborhoods.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You made your point.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: This gets really confusing. So, let's make the point and let the other person respond.
Sheriff Arpaio, are you stopping people who look Hispanic and for no other reason than that?
ARPAIO: No, we are not.
We're stopping many people. And pursuant to our stops, we have the authority to question them and investigate them, because we have 160 officers trained by the federal government. He ought to be commending me that our officers are trained.
SANCHEZ: But are the officers going out specifically to look for people who look Hispanic and may be illegal immigrants?
ARPAIO: We're going out to protect the area against all crimes. And when we do come across an illegal immigrant, we have the authority to question them and arrest them.
SANCHEZ: Mr. Reza, do you buy that? He says, when we come across them. In other words, he's looking for people who commit crimes and, in the process of booking them, they ask them if they're in the country legally. That's what he says.
(CROSSTALK)
REZA: The city of Phoenix has two assigned officers there and has plenty of officers to take care of that area. He's supposed to be taking care of the county and the surrounding areas of the county, which, by the way, there's 70,000 outstanding warrants, felony warrants, that he hasn't taken care of.
(CROSSTALK)
ARPAIO: This guy always says the same thing. He's always wrong, doesn't know what he is talking about.
All he can is criticize my age and mental capacity, and put up vicious KKK, Hitler signs and everybody else. He's not going intimidate me.
SANCHEZ: Are you doing your job, though, Sheriff?
(CROSSTALK)
ARPAIO: Of course I'm doing my job.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What he actually says is that much of the crime that should be taken care of by you and your deputies isn't because you're caught up in the illegal immigrant debate. Is there any truth to that accusation at all?
ARPAIO: Well, first of all, there's no 70,000. That's not my jurisdiction. That's the police department's.
Number two, we have 15 more deputies through money given to us by the state legislature, which very seldom do they do that, to enforce the illegal immigration laws. Number three, we're the only agency enforcing the felony, the state law.
SANCHEZ: We got it, sir.
Joe Arpaio, thanks so much for being with us.
Salvador Reza.
Good heated discussion.
We appreciate both point of views.
REZA: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: When we come back, there's new tape that seems to show actual crimes, crimes as they happen. Are these criminals gone wild? We have asked the producer of this show to join us. But we have also got somebody else who is going to be calling him on it. And it could get ugly. So, stick around. You're going to see it as it unfolds.
Also, the FBI secretly taping Al Sharpton. And now it's about a hidden camera and hints of some kind of deal during his presidential campaign back in 2003. But what exactly is it? Sharpton is going to be here and respond to the allegations.
And then you see some of these pictures that we're going to put up right here? See this? These are illegal in Germany. The Nazi movement still painful, still controversial, and as we found, still in the news.
Back in two. Stay with us. Boy, have we got a lot of stuff for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Look at this again. This is incredible to watch.
When somebody brought this video to our attention, we found it unbelievable. We wanted to take another look at it. This is called "Criminals Gone Wild." Yes, you're watching tape of what is crime in progress, we are told. Really reality TV gone wild is maybe what we should call it. It's billed as real video of real crime. It's unbelievable; 25-year-old filmmaker Ousala Aleem says that he has sold, get this, 10,000 of these DVDs and made some $300,000.
But it right to shoot real crimes, if it's real? And then if it's not real, is that another problem, because now we're being deceitful? Now we're lying.
We're going to try and get to the bottom of this for you.
Joining us now here is, first of all, the director, Ousala Aleem.
Ousala, thanks so much for being with us.
OUSALA ALEEM, CREATOR, "CRIMINALS GONE WILD": Thank you.
SANCHEZ: All right. Take us through it. What we're looking at here looks incredible. That scene we saw just moments ago, it looks like someone is being, what, taken out of their car? Is it a holdup? What is it?
ALEEM: It was a carjacking.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: That is a carjacking. Is it a real carjacking? ALEEM: It's 100 percent real.
SANCHEZ: Well, how were you able to get a camera next to somebody who is committing a crime?
ALEEM: I started out originally trying to do a documentary on criminal psychology. And the longer I hung out with the criminals and were in their proximity, crimes started to happen.
SANCHEZ: And you just started witnessing it and then you took out a camera and you started shooting it?
ALEEM: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Isn't your first obligation to stop the crime from happening?
ALEEM: How could I stop it if I'm watching it? And I'm awe. And I'm shocked that it's happening. How can I stop it in the process of happening if I'm watching it happening? You know what I mean? I'm taping it.
SANCHEZ: Well, here's the question I think most people would have as they're watching this, as we look at this video. Did you know that the crime was going to be committed?
ALEEM: No, not at all.
SANCHEZ: Well, then how did you know to be there when it was taking place?
ALEEM: Like I said, if you're hanging with criminals, you're going see crime. And that's all there is to it. If I hang out with a plumber, I'm going see him do some plumbing. Simple as that.
SANCHEZ: Well, if you hang out with a plumber, you know that he's going to go and do the plumbing work and you pretty much get to know his schedule.
ALEEM: Pretty much.
SANCHEZ: If you hang out with a criminal, you pretty much know that he's going commit crimes, and you know his schedule. So, doesn't that answer the question I just asked you, that you kind of knew that the crime was going to take place?
ALEEM: No, I don't know anyone's schedules. A criminal doesn't have a set schedule.
It's not like you got to wake up at 8:00 and leave at 5:00 in the afternoon. A criminal doesn't have a set schedule. If you're going rob somebody at 3:00 a.m., you might rob somebody at 3:00. You're going to rob somebody at 1:00 p.m. You know what I mean?
SANCHEZ: I know you have got a creative process that you're trying to do here. But my viewers are sitting at home right now and they're listening to you say this, and they're have having a tough time, Mr. Aleem, buying that you weren't on this.
ALEEM: I don't know what to tell them. They just have to see the DVD for themselves. I know what I seen with my own two eyes. And I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it's fake when I know what I seen was real.
SANCHEZ: Well, I didn't say it was fake. Why did you say whether it's fake or not?
ALEEM: Because that's what everyone is saying.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I'm not saying it's fake. I'm saying there's a problem.
Look, if it's real -- and you're saying it is real -- there's a serious problem with you going along for the ride while someone is committing a crime and hurting other people. What is this? Is this the victim of a shooting?
ALEEM: Yes. Well, if I was standing on a corner and a car accident occurred, and I just happened to be taping the car accident, was I the reason for the car accident?
SANCHEZ: Not if there's a predictable pattern of you always being there every time there's a crime. Then you have got to start to ask questions, right?
ALEEM: We're dealing with different people. And there's no particular pattern that is going on.
SANCHEZ: All right. Look, you're going stay here, because we want to look into this a little more.
I want you to take another look at this video now. Folks at home, take a look at this video. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't shoot, man. Don't shoot. I have money many in my wallet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, this is part of his video as well. This is riveting, said to be real. My next guest is also going to know.
Will, give me a shot of the guy we're going talk to in just a little bit. There he is. We're going to be bringing him in just a little bit. He's an actor, actor. And he says that what Mr. Aleem is saying is not true. He is saying it's not real. He says it's all acting. He says it's all fake.
So, we got to get to the bottom -- is that right? Nod your head if what I'm saying it's true. Are you saying it's not true? You're saying it's not true.
All right. You stay right there, because when we come back, I'm going to let you talk to the director and explain your perspective.
Then, later, the FBI hides a camera in a hotel room. What does it show Al Sharpton doing? Why were they spying on him in the first place if that is what it is? I'm going to ask him. He's going to be here to talk about it.
And then my producers can't believe this. Is another marriage down the tubes for Pamela Anderson? Maybe not. Some brand-new information is coming in on this. And we're going have it for you.
Back in two.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: What in the world is all this pushing and shoving about? Someone is going get hurt. Too late. It happens. Incredible pictures are coming in from -- we're going to explain this one to you. We will tell you what is going on. It's happening again. We will break it down.
Welcome back, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. Here we are on OUT IN THE OPEN.
Let's get back to this "Criminals Gone Wild" story.
A lot of questions on this thing. True crime stories or not? Once more, the question comes down to this or at least part of it is this. Are we looking at real live criminals or actors who are acting as criminals gone wild? And if they are real live criminals, then are we involved in perhaps perpetrating the crime itself? We're going to get into all of these issues.
Still with me is filmmaker Ousala Aleem. He's good enough to be with us and take some of the heat on this. Also joining us is Alex O'Donoghue. He's a senior at Medgar Evers College in New York. He appears in "Criminals Gone Wild." And he brought his professor with us, Winston Mitchell, who says his students are just actors and they're not criminals.
All right. Everybody is on board. Everybody is ready to go.
I want to start with you, since you're making the charge. You're saying everything that Mr. Aleem just told me is not true?
ALEX O'DONOGHUE, APPEARS IN "CRIMINALS GONE WILD": Well, I didn't really hear exactly what...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right, let me tell you what he said. He said these are all crimes, and they are happening for real. And he didn't know they were going take place. But he happened to be there at the right time with a camera and he was able to take all those pictures. People were really shot. People were really robbed.
I want to know from you, is that true?
O'DONOGHUE: Well, on behalf of what you seen me doing and the people that participated with me, everybody was family and friends. So all that was staged. Whatever else he did, I don't know, but I know...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Hold on a minute. We have got some video I want to show.
Will, if you have got the video, the one that has Alex on it, let's go ahead and roll that, so we can see that at home.
I want you to give them the play-by-play.
(CROSSTALK)
O'DONOGHUE: The guy with the dreads, I could call him right now.
SANCHEZ: Who is that? Who is that? Are you in there?
O'DONOGHUE: He's supposed to be the victim, the victim, the so- called victim.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Who are you on there?
O'DONOGHUE: Oh, I'm the guy right there?
SANCHEZ: That's -- there, that's you in the blue jacket?
O'DONOGHUE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And you have got a gun?
O'DONOGHUE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And you're supposed to be sticking somebody up here?
O'DONOGHUE: Yes. I'm supposed to be robbing a so-called friend.
SANCHEZ: Is your gun loaded?
O'DONOGHUE: No. It was a fake gun that I obtained by them.
SANCHEZ: So, these people are not being robbed?
O'DONOGHUE: No, they are not.
SANCHEZ: Ousala, you have got some explaining to do.
ALEEM: Yes. And I just don't understand how you could get on national TV and on CNN and just lie to the whole America that this didn't happen. Yes, that was your friend, but you still robbed him.
Look at the video. You said you knew him in it when we went in there. You knew the guy and you robbed the guy. And he didn't call the cops because he was a drug dealer. You know what I mean? So, I just don't understand how you get on TV and lie to the whole America and say that that didn't happen.
O'DONOGHUE: Well, I hear what you're saying. You really trying to go hard to sell more movies. I understand you're trying to make some money. But I could call the guy right now. You want to speak to him?
ALEEM: Speak to who?
O'DONOGHUE: I could call...
ALEEM: Speak to the guy you robbed? What are talking about?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Hold on.
You would bring the other guys that we just saw on tape here and they would tell us the same thing?
O'DONOGHUE: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Go ahead, professor. Go ahead.
WINSTON MITCHELL, MEDGAR EVERS COLLEGE: We have a student right now sitting in your lobby who is also in the video, Akim (ph). And he's one of the people portrayed as a criminal. He's here with me to prove that he wasn't -- he told me to be his spokesperson and tell that he didn't commit the crime.
Alex is one of my students at Medgar Evers College. He hasn't committed a crime.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Ousala, let me ask you a question. Why would he lie?
ALEEM: Let me tell you something.
I went to the Brooklyn streets and I asked everybody, who is the most notorious and ruthless thug in the hood? And all fingers pointed to J-Rider (ph). And I don't know what you all talking about Alex O'Donoghue. His name is J-Rider. And if you ask anybody in the hood about him, he's one of the most ruthless thugs in the street.
(CROSSTALK) ALEEM: I don't mean to be snitching on TV.
(CROSSTALK)
ALEEM: But you did this. You did this.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Look, we are just trying to get to the bottom of this. And we thank you for sharing that opinion.
But he says that your real name is J-Rider and that you are a thug.
But here's the really most important question for us. We can only go by what -- not by what he says about past accusations, what we're looking at on that videotape. If what we're looking at on that videotape is real, then you have committed a crime and the police would be waiting for you as you leave CNN.
O'DONOGHUE: Now, tell me this. At the age I am, would you think I would do a crime and put it on TV? Does that make sense? Would somebody call somebody to...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question, because he said he just happened to be in the area when you guys were doing this. Did you know he was going to have a camera there?
O'DONOGHUE: He lives in the area. This is his profession.
SANCHEZ: And he knows all these people?
O'DONOGHUE: And he knows all these people.
SANCHEZ: They're calling you -- Ousala, it sounds like they're calling you out. And I know you -- how many money have you made so far on these tapes that you have gotten...
(CROSSTALK)
ALEEM: That's neither here nor there. But let me tell you something. I have this tape right here. And this will prove everything. This will totally smash your credibility.
SANCHEZ: All right. What is it?
ALEEM: Because this is a tape proving what I'm saying. I didn't release this because I was in fear of my life. I'm not even going to lie. I was in fear of my life. But, if I release this tape to the public, this will prove that he is J-Rider.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Go ahead, professor. Wrap this up. MITCHELL: I was in the car for Alex. And that producer called him, output it on the speakerphone.
I heard him saying, yo, just chill out for about a couple of more months, so I can make money.
(CROSSTALK)
ALEEM: I said that?
MITCHELL: Yes, you did. I heard you tell him that.
ALEEM: That was me?
(CROSSTALK)
ALEEM: You have a video of me saying that? That wasn't me.
(CROSSTALK)
MITCHELL: He's portraying more black-on-black crime in our community.
SANCHEZ: Police are looking into this matter. We will certainly try and see if we can get to the bottom of it. We're not going to judge either of you at this point. But we will continue looking into it. And, as we get more information, we will be sharing it with you.
Meanwhile, there's a legal side of this. If real, this is a question of law-breaking, if not a question of lying.
Joining us now is former prosecutor Remi Spencer, who is joining us on this as well.
How do you see this? Are you as confused as I am? I don't know if it happened or didn't happen, but either way there is something wrong here, right?
REMI SPENCER, FORMER PROSECUTOR: There's absolutely something wrong.
If these crimes actually occurred, and he knew about them beforehand, he is committing a crime. While there may not be any law on the books that says he has to pick up the phone and call the police...
SANCHEZ: Right.
SPENCER: ... we would think, as a society, that he should, that it's immoral that he wouldn't.
That being said, we have laws with respect to accomplice liability. We have laws with respect to conspiracy. If he's participating in the crime, if he is acting in some way to bring this crime about -- and we know he has a financial motive in this crime taking place -- he can be a co-conspirator. SANCHEZ: Well, let me ask you this, then, because we have Alex here saying no crime took place. It's just a bunch of guys pretending that crimes were taking place.
Is there any liability on his part if that took place?
SPENCER: Absolutely.
There are civil laws that are being violated here, even if the crimes are not taking place. Personally, I think all of us would like to believe that these crimes are not taking place, that we're not observing victims being exploited by commercialism.
That being said, privacy rights, if they are real victims -- if they're not real victims, then the consumers of this product are being duped. They're buying something with the understanding that it's real. But it's not, and it's commercialism gone amuck.
SANCHEZ: Would you be willing to swear on the bible that this is not real?
O'DONOGHUE: Why not?
SANCHEZ: You would?
O'DONOGHUE: Exactly.
SANCHEZ: And you'd take a lie detector test if you had to?
O'DONOGHUE: Exactly.
SANCHEZ: Ousala, let me -- Ousala, let me ask you the same question. Ousala, would you be willing to swear on a stack of bibles that this is real and that you're not deceiving us when you say it's not or it is?
OUSALA ALEEM, CREATOR, "CRIMINALS GONE WILD: Yes. Yes. Yes, I would be willing to swear on the bible that this is 100 percent real, and I would like to say God bless America, and God bless "Criminals Gone Wild."
WINSTON MITCHELL, MEDGAR EVERS COLLEGE: See, that's what he's about. He's about the money. So it doesn't matter --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What do you have in your hand, though?
MITCHELL: It's about money.
SANCHEZ: What are you showing us?
(CROSSTALK)
ALEEM: It's a couple of stacks.
MITCHELL: Right, a couple stacks.
ALEEM: You know, a couple of bills.
MITCHELL: Probably $1 bills?
ALEEM: So then, they're $1 bills.
SANCHEZ: But there's a fortune that's made hundreds of thousand of dollars on this.
MITCHELL: Aren't those hundreds?
SANCHEZ: All right.
ALEEM: This is not about trying to get money off of other people's downfall.
MITCHELL: Well, and it doesn't matter if he's going ruin this person's career because 10 years from now, when I Alex looks for a job, someone will google this, see him as a criminal, and he won't be able to get a job. And in 10 years, he'll say what happened to my life? Why? Because this guy wants to make a dollar.
SANCHEZ: Well, you've owned up. If you're right, you're right. We thank you all. Remi Spencer, thank you as well...
SPENCER: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: ... for putting this on perspective for us.
A camera secretly placed in a room to record the Reverend Al Sharpton. For what? This is an FBI investigation. He's going to join us in just a little bit to explain his side of the story. Oh, and listen to this.
This is a shootout and the bad guys say they'll only be taken out dead. Will they survive? Back in two. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. You're seeing the chaos here, and this is a four-hour gun battle. This is outside Guatemala City Saturday. Hundreds of police and soldiers surround the section of the city where a gang of suspected jewel thieves are holed up. A security guard and a police officer killed before it ended with the deaths of six suspects, six of them.
They had allegedly robbed a jeweler in a store in a shopping center and killed the guard there. They fled to another neighborhood and according to one local radio account, they said the only way that they would come out is dead. They did.
All right. Last week, FBI agents armed with subpoenas swooped down on 10 of the Reverend Al Sharpton's associates. Now, the FBI purports to have a secret video shot with a hidden camera of Sharpton in a hotel room in 2003. The tape would suggest or seem to that the Reverend was cutting a deal with some sort to fund his presidential campaign. We wanted to be as fair as we can be with the story, so we invited the Reverend Al Sharpton to join us tonight to get everything here down on the record.
So this is 2003, and you were running for the presidency. By the way, Reverend Sharpton, as usual, thanks for being with us. We appreciate it.
REV. AL SHARPTON, FOUNDER, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: Thank you. Thank you.
SANCHEZ: 2003, you're running for office. You're running for the presidency, and you do need money, right? So you are meeting with people to get money?
SHARPTON: Yes.
SANCHEZ: There's nothing. I guess you would say there's nothing wrong with that, right? Everybody does that.
SHARPTON: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: Did you, in meeting with anybody, offer them anything in return for their support, monetary support of you?
SHARPTON: No. Well, first of all, I think that what you see on this tape and this came out before...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
SHARPTON: ... ironically when I was campaigning in the Democratic against the Republican general election, is that some people that, one of whom who had already retained my consulting firm, asked me would I help some businessmen who wanted to move forward and have representation that they could not access.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Let the viewers -- let's let the viewers at home know what we're talking about. According to our reports, Sharpton offers to help Philadelphia fundraisers, Ronald A. White, who, by the way, is deceased win a multimillion dollar business deal if White would give you $50,000 in money for the politics. White offers apparently $25,000 on the tape.
Now, I'm going the quote what supposedly is on this tape. "If you bring my guys up on this hedge fund and I have the right conversation," White says. I'm not quite sure what that means, but let me repeat it for our viewers again. He says to you, "If you bring my guys up on this hedge fund and have I the right conversation, I'll give you what you need." And you supposedly say to him, cool.
SHARPTON: Yes, that's fine. That's correct. What he said he wanted to bring some competing guys. You got to remember, it's not going after a deal. They were locked out of being able to try and push black entrepreneurs in certain areas.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
SHARPTON: He wanted me to consult them as I had, his friend. And I said, I'll tell you what. I'll help you guys, but I have two interests. I'm running for president. I want to know if you can help me raise funds for that and they'll support my novel private organization, which I want to survive through my rates (ph).
I cannot offer a deal, Rick. I'm not a public official.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
SHARPTON: I'm not on a pension for it. I can only offer that I would consult and help them to get in front of people to make their pitch and then compete for the business, which I would --
SANCHEZ: But you're admitting -- hey, but Rev. Al, you're admitting that there was a quid pro quo here. You said, therefore, I'll give them --
(CROSSTALK)
SHARPTON: There could not be a quid pro quo.
SANCHEZ: I can maybe call some people -- I can maybe call some people and help you...
SHAPRTON: Rick --
SANCHEZ: ... if you give me some money for my campaign.
SHARPTON: Rick, there cannot be a quid pro quo unless I can deliver him the deal. That's no more than Rudy Giuliani saying the clients of Giuliani plotting this. I'm representing you. Would you help my campaign? Or John Edwards who was in Hedge Fund, why is it different if people doing business with me say I need to ask you to do something, and I say I need you to help me with my campaign. He says, OK, I'll do that. I mean, what is different about that? I'm not in a position to give a deal. I'm in a position to say what I want if I'm getting to represent a consultant.
SANCHEZ: By the way, is there anything else on this tape that we will be hearing about?
SHARPTON: Oh, I don't know. What is interesting is how they keep dribbling every couple of years, tapes. What I would hope is that we now, and I've been talking to attorneys about it, as what kind of surveillance they've been doing of all of us in civil rights.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
SHARPTON: Even around our marches and all. It seems very interesting to me that we're like almost back in J. Edgar Hoover days with tapes. Clearly, if this tape was in 2003, why mysteriously right before the 2008 primaries start, are we now seeing subpoenas three and a half years later?
SANCHEZ: All right. Yes, I get it. And listen, we appreciate you coming on and taking the heat and being asked questions about this. And I understand that you had a chance to -- are you meeting with the Clintons tonight, or did you meet with them?
SHARPTON: I'm in the south. I just had a long conversation with President Clinton. We're here pushing hate crimes legislation. I'm going tomorrow to West Virginia to lead a protest for Megan Williams. I'll continue to do my work, which I think the whole point is to try to stop us for fighting for justice. That won't happen. We'll continue fighting. I guess they'll continue taping.
SANCHEZ: Rev. Al Sharpton, we thank you sir, for taking time and talking to us about these allegations.
SHARPTON: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: All right.
The Nazis on YouTube. Warning. These are pictures that are ugly, racist and painful for a lot of people to see. So why isn't YouTube then taking them down? This goes across the international borders.
And what type of parliament gets this crazy? We're going to show you what we're talking about.
And then move over Elizabeth Taylor. You might be getting some competition or not. We'll probably put this one in the camera for you.
Yes, that's Pamela Anderson, guys. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: These are incredible images that we've been telling you about that we're going to be sharing with you now. Looking at right now would be illegal in Germany. Think about that. YouTube and its parent company, Google, are caught in a clash between freedom of speech in America and the still open wounds of World War II in Germany.
You see, the mere act of displaying Nazi symbols like the swastika is against the law in Germany, with very few exceptions for education, for example, and for art. But then there's YouTube, and others. And as you see in this report, that complicates things for both countries. Here's CNN international correspondent Frederick Pleitgen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERICK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Trying to stop us is a bad idea, the lyrics go. We are the voice of the Aryan youth. This band and Neonazi song, like hundreds of others, is legally available on the German language YouTube site.
Since World War II, Nazi ideology has been illegal in Germany. Not only Nazi symbols like swastika or the Hitler salute, even denial of the holocaust is a crime too. But all are found on the U.S. owned YouTube, including this six-part video series we found that tries to prove with bogus science the Holocaust never happened.
Fake Hollywood gas chambers, it claims at the concentration camp in Dachau, and that makes this man very angry. Stephan Kramer is the secretary general of Germany's largest Jewish organization. He says he's been trying for months to persuade YouTube and its parent company, Google, to get tough on Neonazi content.
STEPHAN KRAMER, CENTRAL COUNCIL FOR THE JEWS IN GERMANY: We forwarded critical clippings that were forwarded to us. We did not get any response, clippings that we flagged about three, four weeks ago were not taken from the Internet.
PLEITGEN: After the Jewish Central Council complained, Google Germany sent an e-mail promising to block the videos immediately. Five days later, we looked for ourselves.
PLEITGEN (on camera): Here are the icons.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): All the videos remain available. This one tries to show the Nazis couldn't have incinerated hundreds of thousands of Jews and Auschwitz by showing how hard it is to set fire to a phonebook.
Here you see the proof, he says. YouTube's parent company, Google, declined an on-camera interview. But in an e-mail, YouTube said it does try to keep content with racial hatred or glorification of violence off the site. And the company apologized in case content that breaks YouTube rules is not been taken off the platform.
The company says it relies on a system where users flag problem videos to site managers. The company says it also has filters to prevent once-banned content from being posted again. This song calling for the bombing of Israel was taken off the site during our research. But the Jewish Central Council says it still finds Neonazi videos from almost a year ago, clicked on more than a hundred thousand times. YouTube they say isn't trying hard enough.
KRAMER: We will hold them responsible, and I'm asking seriously if the owner of YouTube, Google and the board wants to promote such clippings specifically the discriminatory clippings that are on the internet, and I doubt that they would that.
PLEITGEN: The Jewish Central Council says it may try to sue YouTube, but that may be difficult because it can't sue in Germany. YouTube is a U.S. company where all speech is protected by the constitution.
Frederick Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SANCHEZ: Can you believe this has now happened twice in the last two weeks? Check out this video. It's from South Korea. It's outside the National Assembly building in Seoul. Hundreds of Conservative party members try to get into the main floor of parliament, which is being occupied by pro-government party members. In no time at all, the people inside turned fire extinguishers into weapons and start spraying the crowd outside.
Last Friday, there was a huge brawl in parliament between the same two groups. They had to bring gurneys in to get people out. They were so hurt. They've been bickering over whether to impeach prosecutors who are investigating a presidential candidate. And on and on it goes.
"LARRY KING LIVE" coming up in just a little bit. A couple of minutes and Larry is joining us now wearing his Rick Sanchez' style blue shirt. And you can tell us what's going on.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": This is my Rick shirt.
SANCHEZ: There you go.
KING: Hey, Rick, Mike Huckabee is running for president and right now, he's surging in the polls. As if that's not enough, he's got tough guy Chuck Norris on his side. And they're both with us tonight.
And then, we'll talk about the death of Dan Fogelberg. He was only 56. He fought the good fight, but prostate cancer claimed him yesterday.
All that coming up at the top of the hour, Rick.
SANCHEZ: What a story, Huckabee. This guy -- I was looking at some of the polls today, this is like three percent about month ago or maybe a month and a half ago, and suddenly he's soaring like eagles, this guy.
KING: Amazing. He's ahead in five states now I think in the polls, and he could win it. But as he said in the green room, tonight could blow it for him. That's the way it goes.
SANCHEZ: Ask him, yes. Ask him the tough questions, Larry. I appreciate it. All right, man.
KING: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Good luck to you. I appreciate it.
Should we use DNA to help people find the perfect partner? What about for better sex or cut down on cheating? Think about it. Is it right to do something like this using chemistry to put people together? We're going to have that story. It's fascinating.
Also, did you hear the latest about Pamela Anderson? I mean the latest latest? We'll explain in two. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: This is an incredible question. What if we could use DNA to match up the perfect couples? There's a new dating service. It's called scientific Match.com. It says it can do just that. Perfect sex, perfect love, perfect chemistry. For more on DNA dating here is CNN medical correspondent. You know I'm getting -- I'm blushing just talking about this. Elizabeth Cohen joining us now with tonight's "Vital Signs."
All right. Before we get to the issue of whether we should do this, let's talk about whether this is really taking place and does it really work? Does it?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Rick, I'm going to -- I'm about to make you blush even more.
SANCHEZ: OK.
COHEN: Just reading what this group claims to do. This group claims that just by checking your DNA, they can give you, I'm going to read you the list --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
COHEN: A more satisfying sex life, a relationship where there's less cheating, a couple that is more fertile, a couple with the children will be healthier and they will also give women a higher rate of orgasms. I'm not kidding. They really do claim that.
SANCHEZ: So I take what? My DNA or something about myself...
COHEN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... my chemistry to a lab where they have a bunch of other people's chemistries and they find the one that fits me?
COHEN: Right.
SANCHEZ: Or do I go in there with my date and say this is the person? Check her out and see if she fits me.
COHEN: I suppose you could probably do it either way. But what they're planning is that they send you a kit, you swab the inside of your cheek. You send it back to them and they say, Rick, we found you the perfect match.
Now, let me tell you, Rick, I ran this by two real geneticists who work at universities and everything and this is what they had to say. They said this is baloney. This is ridiculous, far-fetched and pie in the sky. And we tried to get the folks from this Web site to comment but they didn't return our calls, but they said there is just no way that you can match people up by their DNA. The rules of attraction and the rules of a happy marriage and the rules of fertility and all of that are way too complicated just to be able to do match up with DNA.
SANCHEZ: Hey, not to mention. Hey, go ahead. Tell them, I feel like I'm on one of those shows where they give away prices, Johnny, tell them what they want. Tell them what this cost, Elizabeth.
COHEN: $2,000 a year. I mean, my goodness. I suppose if you have $2,000 and you don't mind possibly wasting it, you know, whatever, go ahead because they do other things besides DNA. They're also look at some of your personality trait, but I just don't know that many people who have $2,000 to --
SANCHEZ: I don't know about you, but you know, I've always been a bit of a traditionalist. You know, I married to one woman. I plan to be married with her forever. We've got four kids, and we didn't do any tests. You know, we just looked -- you know, it was across the room and obviously, she fell in love with me first because, you know, chicks dig me, what can I say?
But it seems to me, let's get serious now, that there's a problem with something like this because shouldn't this be the kind of thing that happens? I mean, isn't that the way love is supposed to work?
COHEN: I mean, it's worked relatively well for many, many years that way, right? And people have matched up perfectly well. I mean, it's interesting. I don't -- you know the doctors we've talked to said we're never going to get to the point where people make love matches. I should never say, they didn't say never.
SANCHEZ: Right.
COHEN: But they said they can't envision a time when DNA will be the way that people make matches. They gave an example of a useful use for DNA. They said that, for example, look at the Jewish population. There's a disease called Tay-Sachs.
SANCHEZ: Right.
COHEN: That is unfortunately too common among Jews. And you do -- maybe you want to test beforehand and you don't want to get too serious with someone else who has Tay-Sachs disease. That would be a good use of DNA testing.
SANCHEZ: But not for the courtship part, which seems a little bit ridiculous. But nonetheless, we're glad you looked into it for us.
COHEN: Well, thank you. I'm glad I looked into it too.
SANCHEZ: And that's my wife on the phone.
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: There you go.
SANCHEZ: Probably mad at me for what I said.
COHEN: Talk to her. Right.
SANCHEZ: Elizabeth Cohen, thanks so much. We appreciate it.
Hey, guess who's getting divorced, or isn't getting divorced? Huh? This story has changed as we started to go on the air. Former "Baywatch" star Pamela Anderson filed for divorce from Rick Solomon Friday. They've been married two months. It cited irreconcilable differences. Once again, irreconcilable difference in the papers filed Friday in L.A.
They got married October 6th, but TMZ.com now reports tonight, that they had a big fight but have now reconciled and the divorce is off. So the irreconcilable is reconcilable. What? There's a cryptic note on Anderson's Web site today saying we're now working things out. There you go.
At the top of the hour, "LARRY KING LIVE" with Mike Huckabee, the hottest Republican in town.
And then, Fidel Castro has something to say about Cuba's future. It's breaking news. It's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We got some breaking news coming up in Cuba. It's a letter from Fidel Castro read a little while ago on Cubavision.
Castro says he does not intend to cling to office, "cling to office" and won't be an impediment to the next generation of Cuban leaders. If true, they would be celebrating in the streets of Miami.
That's all for tonight. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now. I'm Rick Sanchez. Thanks so much for being with us.
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