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Out in the Open
Kerry Endorses Obama; Search Continues For Pregnant Marine
Aired January 10, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: There is a cold political slap in the face being offered up to one of the candidates who is running for the presidency.
We got all the political news for you.
But, first, there's breaking news now on this case that we have been telling you about of a U.S. Marine who is not only missing, but she is pregnant. In fact, she may have already had the baby, but where is she, where's the baby? The new development is that her roommate is now being flown back to North Carolina to be questioned in this case. He's now officially a person of interest in this case. That's what police are calling him.
Let me show you this picture now of the 20-year-old. Her name is Lance Corporal Maria Lauterbach. She has been missing since mid- December. Around the time she disappeared, she was scheduled to testify about an incident there at Camp Lejeune.
What type of incident was it? What did she know? And, obviously, is that upcoming testimony the real reason that she's now missing? This is a real mystery.
CNN's Randi Kaye is on the scene. She's joining us from North Carolina and she's been looking into this and she's going to bring us up to date.
What do you know right now? What do you know, Randi?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, good evening.
I can tell you, the very latest right now is that we are awaiting the arrival here at the sheriff's department. We are waiting the arrival of Sergeant Daniel Durham. He's a key witness in the case, not being called a suspect, but a person of interest.
He, as you mentioned, was the roommate of the missing pregnant Marine. They are friends. They want to talk to him here at the sheriff's department. They have spoken with him before. And the sheriff tells me that some of the things didn't exactly match up. He wants to have another conversation with him, check out his body language and see just what he tells them this time.
So, he's on his way here. We're not sure if he's going to arrive tonight or tomorrow. We know that, from a search warrant we have obtained, his laptop was taken from the house that they shared. It has been examined. We don't know yet what if anything they found anything on it.
We also know that he's shown quite a bit of interest in this case, following the media reports on it and that he's made some comments about it as well. That is certainly curious to the folks here -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: Forgetting about the role of Sergeant Durham at this point, most people have their ears perked when they hear that this woman was supposed to testify about some incident there at Camp Lejeune prior to disappearing. So, what do we know at this point, Randi, about what this case was all about, what this incident was all about, and what her role was in it?
KAYE: Well, the Marines aren't talking. And the sheriff says that that's not what he's concerned about. All he is concerned about right now is her safe return.
We do know that there were some reports being made earlier that possibly she was a victim in this case that occurred on the base. She was supposed to testify in it. But again we have not been able to confirm that.
We can also tell you that according to the incident report, she was supposed to testify. Her mother says that she's a compulsive liar, also bipolar. These could be just a couple of reasons why she may have run. The sheriff says he's really on the fence. Is she truly in danger or is she really missing or did she just choose to go on her own?
He was speaking at a press conference today, and, again, would not commit to wherever or not she really is in danger. But he spoke to her as if she was out there listening.
And this is what he had so say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED BROWN, SHERIFF OF ONSLOW COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA: If Maria is listening and gets this, I want her to know that sometimes people do things, if they could turn the clock back, they wouldn't do them the way they have done them.
Regardless of -- if she's listening to this, regardless of the circumstances, this has got to stop. She needs the assistance of loved ones and friends in her circumstances, both if she was not pregnant or pregnant. People need people. And you can't run from, you know, those things of life that you have to stand up and face forever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: So, again, there's a chance she is OK and that she may have run. We just don't know at this point tonight, Rick.
We do know that her mother was pressuring her, apparently, according to some documents that we have been able to get, that she wanted her to give up this baby. So, these could just be a few reasons why, if she did run, she may have.
SANCHEZ: All right, Randi Kaye following that story for us. We look forward to seeing your report. I know you are going to be working this story throughout the evening, and you're going to have more filed tonight on "A.C. 360." That'S at 10:00 Eastern. Thanks so much, Randi.
It's interesting that the sheriff would say -- you heard what he said just moments ago. He seemed to be actually addressing her as if she was out there listening. And there's something else that becomes even more baffling in this case.
This is the Associated Press that's reporting that court documents seem to indicate that the Naval Criminal Investigative Service has confirmed that this missing woman does have a history of lying.
Now, recall that just moments ago Randi said the same thing about what her mother says about her. The Associated Press says that Navy investigators have been struggling now to investigate the woman's allegations because of inconsistencies in her story.
So, let's do this. Let's talk now to the man who says his department is moving full speed ahead in this investigation.
Sheriff Ed Brown is good enough to join us.
Sheriff, our viewers just watched you address her as if you thought you would be getting through to her. Most people wouldn't do that unless they had a hunch that she was still out there. Explain to us why you did that, and, if you do have a hunch, explain that to us as well.
BROWN: No, nothing should be read into that statement that I made. Someone in the press today asked the question, Sheriff, if she was listening, what would you want to say to her? The word if put in any matter changes the whole context of what I said.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me bring you something else.
You also said this, you said, the needle seems to be pegging more positive than negative.
And when I heard you say that, I was wondering you had different outlook on this than you did perhaps yesterday or a couple of days ago. Do you?
BROWN: I'm good for remembering what I said. I did say that, and I also said, and have contended that I stand in the middle of the road in this investigation, that I'm not resolved and that it could go -- it could go either way at this time. I'm not 100 percent resolved.
I think there is -- again, I want to reiterate to the public, I know what I said, and that is, if she's out there, that was the message. The other message is, we're still investigating, and we're not resolved to which way this could go.
SANCHEZ: Why has it taken so long for this to become a public case? Mid-December is when she disappeared. And now we're well into January.
BROWN: This has not taken so long to start an investigation. The investigation started immediately. But we don't make it a habit in the investigative field to call for the assistance of the media, which we did in this case, until we saw the case may have needed some notoriety in the public to bring the witnesses forward.
The investigation -- and this is what I want to make clear to the people who are viewing, because some people have been led to believe that the fact that the media was contacted the first part of the week is when the investigation actually got into gear high speed. We have been in the gear high speed, and some of these people who have been making conjectures about what should be done, we didn't fall off the tomato truck yesterday.
SANCHEZ: Hey, let me ask you a question about Sergeant Durham. I know you are going to be questioning him. I know he's being brought back. You called him a person of interest.
What do you expect or what you can share with us, without giving us the Normandy invasion plans, about what you expect to gather from this fellow?
BROWN: Well, Sergeant Durham was her roommate. They shared co- tenant together in a house.
They were friends, close friends an associates. At this time, it is believed that Mr. Durham, Sergeant Durham, could be the last person that had communications with her, and could shed a lot of light on some of the other things that we know that have been uncovered in this investigation.
SANCHEZ: You are in a bit of a pickle here, because you are dealing with something which is a criminal case, but there seems to be an antecedent to it, and that is this investigation, or this incident that she was going to be testifying to. Do you know if Sergeant Durham is any way linked to that military investigation that was going on Camp Lejeune?
BROWN: Let me clear something. I'm not in a pickle. I'm in an investigation. And these are two different situations.
The base has their investigation going on. We have our investigation going on. And we are marching cool, calm and collected to resolve this case.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But here is my question, and pardon the interruption, sir. How are you able to gather your information without also gathering information from them on their investigation?
And maybe I should ask the question this way. Are you working together? Is this a cooperation?
BROWN: I'm sure glad you asked that question, because last night I saw one station indicate that there had been a problem with the military and civilian.
I have been in this 41 years. I have worked hand in hand with the military all that time in all different aspects of law enforcement. And never have I had any problem with any investigation or cooperation with the military here in Onslow County.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Sheriff Ed Brown, you're a good man. Thank, sir, for taking the time to talk to us. Good luck. We certainly hope this things come to a resolution, sir.
BROWN: Yes. And thank you media folks for making this possible, because it is generating some good positive information.
SANCHEZ: We appreciate it, sir. Happy to help.
As we have been hearing, part of what makes this story so complicated, and you just heard the sheriff allude to it, is that it involves allegations of a crime on a military base. And that means a separate investigation with separate legal rules.
Of course, both the missing woman and her roommate, this person of interest, are Marines. And that certainly has a heck of a lot to do with this case.
That's we want to talk now to a military attorney. His is Eugene Fidell.
Is it Fidell or Fidell, by the way?
EUGENE FIDELL, PRESIDENT, INSTITUTE OF MILITARY JUSTICE: Fidell.
SANCHEZ: Hey, listen, here is something that we have now received. And I want to share it with you. This is from "The Military Times," a credible news organization. They say that she may have fled her post at Camp Lejeune after she withdrew sexual assault allegations against another service member and feared facing charges of making false statements.
This is a whole different story than what a lot of people have been led to believe at this point. First of all, your take on that?
FIDELL: Well, you know, what really is animating the lance corporal here is anybody's guess at the moment. I think the data that we have are so, so sketchy that all of us would be really engaging in speculation.
(CROSSTALK)
FIDELL: However...
SANCHEZ: Go ahead. Go ahead. FIDELL: However, obviously, a number of possible theories come to mind. Was she simply sort of terrified of having to be on the witness stand, for example, in a court martial? Was there a court martial in the offing? We don't know.
Was the matter simply being investigated by the military authorities? We don't know. It's been reported that she's expecting, or, was, you know, well along in a pregnancy. Might that have influenced her? Is she simply an unauthorized absentee? Is she just AWOL? Is something else going on? Was she threatened for some reason? Or was she just terrified of the possibility that charges that she had made having been discounted, she herself would be under the gun. So, there's a lot of possibilities.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question as a civilian then. And you understand the military system of justice or the way the military would handle something like this. Wound the onus be on them -- or maybe I should change the word onus to expectation -- would the expectation be on them to come forward and share some information with us, so that we can better understand what her motive may have been?
FIDELL: Well, the military justice system is like the other court systems in our country, subject to the right to a public trial.
And, when the process moves into the pretrial investigation stage, what's called an Article 32 investigation, or into a trial proper, then the media is able to sit in, except for the parts that are classified, let's say, if there were any, and draw its own conclusions.
But I don't think really the media has a duty -- rather, the service has a duty to, you know, give hourly bulletins on the investigation.
SANCHEZ: You know, it makes me think of the movie with Jack Nicholson, "A Few Good Men," where he says, you can't handle the truth.
And, I mean, there probably is a little bit of that going on as well, right?
FIDELL: Well, first of all, when I grow up, I want to be Jack Nicholson. But...
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: You do wonder, though, whether, in a case like this, the Marines are saying, look, there's what we need to do and what we need to go through. And when we're good and ready, we will let you guys know.
FIDELL: Well, look, there is some sense of that, but that's only prudent in the circumstances, that...
SANCHEZ: Right.
FIDELL: You have a live investigation, and it's an investigation that they have got to work closely with the sheriff on. And they don't want to have two investigations, each of which, let's say, gums up the other.
The other thing I want to say is...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: We are down to 15 seconds, so go ahead.
FIDELL: That's all right.
The Marine Corps takes an interest in its personnel. And I'm sure they are at least as concerned about her personal well being as they are about the legal circumstances.
SANCHEZ: Eugene Fidell, thanks so much for joining us with this information. It's a story that we will continue to follow for you, with or without Jack Nicholson.
Thank you, sir.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: You stood up just fine, sir. Thanks again.
FIDELL: My pleasure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: My friends, when we choose a president, we are electing judgment and character, not years on this earth. And it is the moral...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: If John Edwards was good enough to be John Kerry's running mate, why not endorse him, right? Can you say slap in the face? So, who is Mr. Kerry endorsing, Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama?
Older women in New Hampshire, whippersnappers in Iowa, first-time voters coming out of the woodwork. OK. Well, what does it mean? We are drilling down.
Also, here is one for you. If Barack Obama were a woman, he would -- no, we're not at a bar and this is not a joke. But it is something that Gloria Steinem says. That is coming up.
Wait, wait, wait. Before we go to break, there's something I have to show you, because in television, we show you pictures, right, and then we also tell stories. Sometimes, though, the two don't exactly match up. Case in point, this is the West Bank. Look at these police officers. They are literally clubbing some of the demonstrators out there who have a message for the visiting president of the United States, President Bush. And they are saying is, President Bush, get out. We don't want you on the West Bank.
Now, here is the conflict going back to our premise. The president is saying that he's confident that he can come up with a solution, or some kind of compromise between this rift that the Palestinians and the Israelis have had before his term expires. At least seven presidents before him who have tried would say, Mr. President, good luck.
We will have more on that. Stay with us, a lot more news coming your way.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back. This is OUT IN THE OPEN. We're out on the trail.
This is the fastest four minutes on the presidential race. Fasten your seat belts, folks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: I have the confidence that Barack Obama can be, will be and should be the next president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: A lot of Democrats are thinking that he could have, would have, might have endorsed Hillary Clinton. Or maybe his running mate? Hello? John Edwards? Today, John Kerry comes out for Barack Obama.
Another one bites the dust. New Governor Bill Richardson folds his campaign and goes back home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: I'm the luckiest man I know. I married my high school sweetheart.
(APPLAUSE)
RICHARDSON: I live in a place called the land of enchantment. I have the best job in the world. And I just got to run for president of the United States.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: John McCain has got Carolina on his mind. Never mind that George W. Bush -- or was it Karl Rove that pulled a fast one on him last time around there? But that was then. This is now.
And this is Dana Bash, live from Myrtle Beach.
Dana, fast and furious, please.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's start with a trivia question for you, Rick. No Republican -- or a trivia question you should know about -- no Republican candidate has gone -- has won this without winning the Republican nomination, the state of South Carolina. That is why it is such a crucial battleground, especially for somebody like John McCain.
You mentioned what happened in 2000. He won New Hampshire, just like he did a couple of days ago. But he came down here and he got stopped in his tracks by George W. Bush. So, that is why he is fighting very, very hard here. He insists that it's a different kind of race, a different kind of dynamic, because, unlike then, now he is somebody who is a veteran, somebody who has national security credentials running in a post-9/11 world.
But he is up against somebody who has a deep connection to the evangelical base here, and that's Mike Huckabee. And that's John McCain's challenge here in South Carolina -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: South Carolina is going to be fun to watch.
We thank you so much, Dana Bash, for bringing us that.
Republican Ron Paul is in hot water for some outrageous stuff that was in a newsletter in the 1980s and '90s. After the 1992 L.A. riots, he wrote, supposedly: "Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks."
Whoa. How does he explain this kind of stuff now?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RON PAUL (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's in there. It's bad. I recognize that. I had a moral responsibility. But that doesn't mean that you can, you know, indirectly charge me as being a racist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: For Hillary Clinton, it's time to go to Vegas, not to do the rumba, but to caucus. She's also gambling on the Web to snatch young voters from Barack Obama.
Internet reporter Abbi Tatton shows us how.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Rick, take a look at the backdrop of these two videos, Hillary Clinton post-Iowa, Hillary Clinton post-New Hampshire, this time in front of a much younger crowd.
And those young voters you see popping up again in this new Web video from the Hillary Clinton campaign called "Ask Hillary." It's heavy with Chelsea Clinton footage, and in it, the senator answers questions from young voters.
This was an initiative that was pushed on Facebook over the last few days, a place where Barack Obama is very popular. And her rival comes up in the questions that the senator answers. She answers on Darfur, on rising higher education costs, and she answers a question where a young voter says, Hillary Clinton, I really like you, but my friends like Barack Obama. What do I tell them?
Well, she says, I can bring change, as well experience.
The campaign says this effort will be ongoing -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much.
First-time voters are making news and breaking turnout records in some places. Who are these people? Are you one of them?
Let us know, if you are. We want to hear from you at CNN.com/Rick.
A woman and a black man vying for the Dems' ticket. Now, think about that.
Also, think about this, what Gloria Steinem says about women over blacks. It's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Tonight, a look at new voters who are promising to change the political landscape, or so they hope. In Iowa, it was young people and churchgoers who voted for Barack Obama and Mike Huckabee, respectively.
In New Hampshire, interestingly enough, it was older women who stood up for Hillary Clinton. Who is it going to be in Nevada or in South Carolina, where 50 percent of the Dems are black? But there's also a large military voting bloc there. Will they be new first- timers this time around? Or what kind of makeup will they have?
Now, CNN's Ted Rowlands is in Nevada, a state that is holding a caucus in a little more than a week. He spoke to first-time voters who are very enthusiastic about the election. Here is what they are saying.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Olga Biloval and Wendy Romero both recently became U.S. citizens. Olga is in the Air Force. She was sworn in two months ago at this military citizenship ceremony at Nellis Air Force Base. She says she can't wait to help pick her new commander in chief, but:
OLGA BILOVAL, FIRST-TIME VOTER: I haven't decided yet. I'm still deciding what I'm going to -- who I am going to choose.
ROWLANDS: Wendy, an administrative assistant from El Salvador, has lived in Nevada for 12 years. She says, what excites her most about this election is the fact that a woman is on the ballot. But she says her first vote will be based on what she hears from the candidates on immigration.
WENDY ROMERO, FIRST-TIME VOTER: We Friday need a change when it comes to that. I believe the Latino community really needs that.
ROWLANDS: Shannon Sherwood and Dallin Hyer are Las Vegas high school students who are excited to vote in their first election. Both say they are attracted to the horse race aspect and the responsibility of choosing a candidate.
DALLIN HYER, FIRST-TIME VOTER: It is really exciting. They have a great energy about it. And you just never know what is going to happen. So, I love it.
ROWLANDS: Dallin thinks he will use his first vote to support Mitt Romney. Shannon says she is undecided.
SHANNON SHERWOOD, FIRST-TIME VOTER: I'm especially interested with al the debates that have been going on, trying to pay attention, and see what everyone is saying, so I can pick a candidate.
ROWLANDS: First-time voters could play a key role in this election.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: First-time voters are usually jazzed by new voices, new messages, new candidates who say something different. That's what they saw in Mike Huckabee in Iowa. That's what they saw in Barack Obama in Iowa.
ROWLANDS: And it's not just first-time voters. Joyce Demer, who works on the Las Vegas Strip, says she hasn't felt the urge to cast a ballot for the past 16 years, but says this election will send her back into the voting booth.
Joyce, who is leaning towards supporting Obama, says there's a lot at stake for the country right now, and, with so many candidates having a shot at winning, she wants to be a part of it.
JOYCE DEMER, NEVADA VOTER: This is the most important election, and I really don't think that you can abdicate this vote to your neighbor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: We're at the Clark County Election Center in Las Vegas, where they have been very busy, Rick, processing a lot of people who are registering to take part in the caucuses, many of them, of course, first timers. I tell you. We talked to a lot of first- time voters. Many people are excited about this election, but this group especially enthusiastic. They're ready to jump into it, and they're very happy to have this election be their first taste of the process.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, it's good to see enthusiasm. Thanks so much, Ted. Appreciate the report. We're going to stay on top of this trend.
If this election is inspiring you to vote for the very first time, we would like to hear from you. Tell us what's got you jazzed up for a particular candidate, a particular movement, a particular time. Go to our Web site at CNN.com/Rick or e-mail us directly at rick@CNN.com. Look forward to hearing from you.
There is a famous feminist who's saying that women are never front-runners. That compared to a woman, a black man, well, has it easier. Is she right? We're going to debate that one.
And then, you know the story about the missing hiker whose decapitated body was found in Georgia? Now, there are questions about whether her alleged killer has killed before. If you hike or even just visit national parks, this is a story that will give you the creeps. We've got examples. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to OUT IN THE OPEN. I'm Rick Sanchez. Having a woman and a black man as front-runners in the race for the presidency is historic. But tonight, it's also sparking a bit of a controversial question about racism and sexism. Which is the bigger hurdle?
In "The New York Times," feminist Gloria Steinem writes that said that women have it harder, and Barack Obama would not have gotten as far as he has if he were a woman. Quote, in fact let's put that up, Will.
"Gender is probably the most restricting force in American life, whether the question is who must be in the kitchen or who could be in the White House." Not the White House kitchen, by the way.
Joining us now is Carol Jenkins. She's the president of the Women's Media Center, an organization founded by Gloria Steinem. Also with us is Professor Charles Ogletree. He is a civil rights scholar and a mentor to Barack Obama. Good to have you both here.
Ms. Jenkins, let me start with you. And I guess the premise is that it's easier for black -- for a black man than it is for a woman. Would you agree with that?
CAROL JENKINS, PRESIDENT, THE WOMEN'S MEDIA CTR.: Well, I would, although I know that Charles was also the professor to Michelle Obama. So, you know, I mean, if it were not Barack it would be Michelle running. Look. We thing that gender discrimination is so subconscious that it's more pernicious than racism these days.
SANCHEZ: It trumps racism?
JENKINS: I believe so. But if you're asking me as a black woman, whether I feel more discriminated against because I'm black or a woman, I would have to say both. So you could imagine how women of color in this --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But it's not so much -- you can't sit on the fence on this one.
JENKINS: Oh, I can say --
SANCHEZ: The statement from Steinem is that's it's harder for a woman than it is for a man.
JENKINS: But the example that she gave was of an African- American woman with exactly the same credentials that Barack Obama has, imagining her running for president of the United States. And her answer as ours would be was highly unlikely. We'd love it but highly unlikely.
SANCHEZ: Professor, go ahead. Take it from this point.
PROF. CHARLES OGLETREE, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: I respect Gloria Steinem. She's made enormous differences in the lives of women. My wife, my daughter, my granddaughters, but she's wrong on this for a number of reasons.
Ask Tom Bradley when he ran for governor in California. Black man, thought he could win, he didn't. Ask Harvey Gantt in North Carolina. Ask Harold (ph) Ford, Jr., North Carolina.
Look at Congress. Fourteen women elected to national office as senators, one black man, Barack Obama. Look at governors. Eight white women elected as governors in the United States. One black man here in Massachusetts, Deval Patrick. Ivy League presidents. Four of the Ivy League presidents are women. One is an African-American woman.
JENKINS: Yes.
OGLETREE: That's Ruth Simmons.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
OGLETREE: So race has always been a barrier. This hasn't been overcome at all in any significant way.
SANCHEZ: We've got some of our own stats. We're putting them up for the viewers now. You saw the CEOs. Two to one, 16 women senators. Only one black, Barack Obama. Nine women governors. But only one black man has been elected to a state house. Ms. Jenkins, how do you explain that?
JENKINS: I didn't hear Charles quoting any figures about black women or women of color.
OGLETREE: I did. I did. JENKINS: Well --
(CROSSTALK)
OGLETREE: If you heard me, I talked about Ruth Simmons, the only member --
JENKINS: But that's the president of a university. But if you're talking about --
OGLETREE: That's exactly right.
JENKINS: If you're talking about running for, you know, for major offices, you didn't mention the African-American women who are governors. There are only 12 women in all of Congress, African- American. So that we have -- when we talk about women, we're not just talking about white women. We're talking about all women.
SANCHEZ: But are you talking -- well, let me ask you this question because I'm curious as I listened to you ask this. There are probably what? 12 percent of the population is African-American in this country?
OGLETREE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Is that about right?
JENKINS: Right. Right.
SANCHEZ: But yet, 50 percent of the population are women.
JENKINS: Fifty-one percent. Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Fifty-one. I was talking about that one percent.
Why wouldn't women be more apt to vote for other women?
JENKINS: Why would they?
SANCHEZ: Would they not?
JENKINS: Oh, thank you very much.
SANCHEZ: Because it seems to be -- it seems to be the trend. I guess the question I'm asking you is...
JENKINS: Yes. Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... point blank
JENKINS: Right.
SANCHEZ: Are women also prejudiced against women?
JENKINS: Well, I think that there is an undercurrent. We're not saying we would never hold every woman has to vote for every woman candidate.
SANCHEZ: Of course not. Of course not.
JENKINS: But what we were addressing in this particular op-ed, where you talk about women are never the frontrunners, is that the media took a major part in discriminating against Hillary Clinton as did the other candidates. And so, we have this wonderful opportunity to discuss racism, gender and the media.
SANCHEZ: I got it.
JENKINS: And so that there is no --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Here we go. Here we go with the media bit. But you know, I've got to ask you --
JENKINS: No, no, no. The media is...
SANCHEZ: No. But here's a very serious question.
JENKINS: ... a major part of all of this.
SANCHEZ: Professor, maybe you can help me with this. You know, when you look at the candidacy of these two individuals, they're both very competent. They're both very smart. But Barack Obama is fresher. Barack Obama does seem, at least, in the minds of many to be somewhat more eloquent. Is it maybe just about the fact that his skill set is different than her skill set?
OGLETREE: It is about skill sets, and Barack Obama talks about change. That resonates with women and men, young and old, black and white, conservative and liberal. I think that makes the big difference. And also, you think about the 20th century, there were two African-Americans elected as senators. A Republican by the name of Ed Brooke in Massachusetts.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
OGLETREE: And a black woman by the name of Carol Moseley Brown. Her sister was a student of mine, a classmate of mine at Harvard.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
OGLETREE: And so, gender trumped race in that sense. I'm glad that Carol Moseley Brown was elected. And one of the big issues was Anita Hill, what happened in 1991, Anita Hill and Clarence Thomas. It opened up doors.
(CROSSTALK)
JENKINS: But Charles --
OGLETREE: The reality is that we have not made progress in giving people to going to that ballot box and not consider race as a determinant in who they're going to vote for. What they say publicly is one thing.
SANCHEZ: Yes, but wait a minute.
OGLETREE: But with the ballot box, it's a very --
SANCHEZ: Don't tell that to the people in Iowa. They certainly proved you wrong, Professor.
OGLETREE: That's exactly right.
SANCHEZ: Guys, we're out of time.
OGLETREE: Barack Obama has been able to look at people and present an agenda where trends see him in terms of race alone. They see him as a guy with energy.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: He has transcended. I suppose is the word that you're looking for.
OGLETREE: It is not just transcended. It is more than that. It's more than that.
JENKINS: I don't see anything. I don't hear you saying anything about women of color. It's all men of color.
OGLETREE: I just did. I just talked -- I don't think Carol Moseley Brown --
SANCHEZ: He said it. He said Carol Moseley Brown. He did. He did. Right.
JENKINS: One example of all the other figures.
SANCHEZ: Guys, we're out of time. We'll pick it up again. Interesting argument. You can smart vote (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
JENKINS: Nice to see you, Charles.
SANCHEZ: We appreciate your time and your insight, Carol Jenkins and Professor Charles Ogletree.
This woman may have been the victim of a serial killer. She was decapitated. But so was another woman near Tallahassee. And then there's this missing couple that we've been finding out about in North Carolina. This is a scary proposition, and we're going to investigate.
And at the top of the hour on "LARRY KING LIVE," new mom, Nancy Grace, talking about her twins, and how they've changed her. How have they changed her? Larry explains, and so does Nancy. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: "LARRY KING LIVE" is coming up in just a couple of minutes. And Larry is good enough to join us now and let us know what he's got planned for tonight. Larry?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Always good to be with you, Rick. We got three topics tonight. First, Nancy Grace will open up about motherhood and marriage. She'll tell us about the twins that have changed her life. And then schoolteacher turned sex offender Debra Lafave will be with us. She returns to court on probation violation charges. We'll hear from her ex-husband.
And finally, the mystery you just discussed a little earlier on the missing pregnant marine. We'll get the latest from those on the scene in North Carolina. And, Suzanne Somers, tomorrow night, Rick. And a major guest on Monday night, we'll tell you all about it Monday morning. Other than that, nothing day.
SANCHEZ: That's a lot of conjunctions. Hey, thanks so much, Larry. We appreciate it.
KING: Thank you, Rick. Go get them.
SANCHEZ: And we've got -- we've got new video tonight on that confrontation between the U.S. warships and the Iranian boats in the Strait of Hormuz.
All right. The Iranians have released this video today. See it right there? It shows its naval forces interacting with the U.S. ships. Now, audio that they present says it contains no threatening language. That would be at odds, though, with the tape that the U.S. released.
Now, let's take a look at that one. The U.S. tape shows some of the small boats zipping around in the water. There you go. But the audio on it has a voice that is saying, you will explode in a few minutes. Supposedly an Iranian voice. Now, take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
U.S. NAVY SHIP: Inbound small craft: You are approaching a coalition warship operating in international waters.
SMALL CRAFT: You will explode after a few minutes.
U.S. NAVY SHIP: You will explode after a few minutes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Senior U.S. state department officials are saying that they think some low-level Iranian just got perhaps carried away in this case. And that would be a good thing at this point as this goes.
Also, her disappearance and the grisly death that shocked the country. Now, we are learning that she was alive for three days after disappearing and prior to dying. And don't forget, at the top of the hour, Larry has going to have the very latest on several stories, including one about Nancy Grace. That's a good one. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to OUT IN THE OPEN. I'm Rick Sanchez. And tonight, there is growing suspicion that police in Georgia may have a serial killer in custody. Now, you may have heard about Meredith Emerson, 24 years old, hiking. She was kidnapped while hiking in a state park on New Year's Day and then she was later killed.
Now, authorities in both North Carolina and in Florida are looking at whether murders in those states may be tied to the same suspect who attacked her. CNN's Rusty Dornin ties it all together for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 24-year-old Meredith Emerson was walking her dog on the Appalachian trail on New Year's Day when she vanished.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meredith! Meredith?
DORNIN: Combing the woods, searchers found some telling clues. Her snow-covered car, her dog Ella's leash and a water bottle. Witnesses had seen Emerson talking to a disheveled man with a dog.
KIMBERLY VERGONE, UNION COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPT.: One of the eyewitnesses has described him as being weathered and no teeth, and looked as he had been hiking for quite some time.
DORNIN: Two days later, a major break. One of the witnesses had jotted down the license number from the man's van, and its owner, 61- year-old Gary Michael Hilton was arrested as he was allegedly cleaning out the van.
Forty miles away, Emerson's bloody clothes were found in a dumpster. Her dog, Ella, wandering aimlessly nearby. Also police say Hilton had uses her ATM card, but still no Emerson. Then after his first court appearance on kidnapping charges, police say Hilton led investigators to her decapitated body.
JOHN CAGLE, GEORGIA BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: At approximately 7:30 this evening, the body of Meredith Emerson was discovered in a wooded area.
DORNIN: Then came the news she had been alive three days before she was killed.
JULIE KARRENBAUER, EMERSON'S ROOMATE: I hope that, you know, she didn't, wasn't aware of what was going on.
DORNIN: And now, police around the southeast where Hilton has drifted for years are reexamining other unsolved murders. VERNON KEEAN, GEORGIA BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: We had a meeting this afternoon with investigators and prosecutors from North Carolina regarding a double homicide.
DORNIN: Elderly hikers Irene and John Bryant vanished in October. Irene Bryant's body was discovered. She had been bludgeoned to death. Her husband has never been found. And a man tried to use the couple's ATM card.
Hilton has not officially been named in the investigation in North Carolina, but he has in Florida. He's the prime suspect in the murder of a nurse, Cheryl Dunlap. A forest ranger says he saw Hilton around the time of Dunlap's disappearance in December.
MAJOR MIKE WOOD, LEON COUNTY SHERIFF DEPT.: With Cheryl Dunlap, there was an abduction, a homicide and ATM usage and have now identified that Gary Hilton was, in fact, in our community. Those are pretty graphic similarities.
DORNIN: Before the hiker's murder, Gary Hilton was not even a blip on law enforcement's radar. In this dash cam video from last October, Hilton is seen excitedly talking to a Georgia police officer when he trespassed on private land.
GARY HILTON, ACCUSED OF MURDERING HIKER: I'm leaving. I'm getting out of here. God Almighty.
DORNIN: Hilton has not yet entered a plea in the Georgia case. His attorney declined to discuss it, except to say, there may be significant mental health issues. Little is known about Hilton. Police say he lived in his van and did odd jobs. No criminal record of violent behavior. But could that be because until now, he hadn't been caught? Rusty Dornin, CNN, Dawsonville, Georgia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Joining us now is a man who believes that Gary Hilton may have killed his 11-year-old cousin, Levi Frady, 10 years ago. Justin Frady is good enough to join us now from the CNN Center, Atlanta.
Justin, you think Hilton did this? Make your case as best as you can.
JUSTIN FRADY, COUSIN OF MURDER VICTIM: Well, I actually -- it's not so much that I think that he did it, but he resembled a sketch that the police had made back when Levi was murdered, of a possible witness --
SANCHEZ: Well, I'm going to stop you right there and I'm going to let the viewers see. Let's start with the shot, I believe, of -- what do you got, Will? The shot of Hilton? All right.
That is the sketch of the man who apparently may have had something to do with the disappearance of Levi. All right. Now, let's look at Hilton. You got that, will? All right. There's Hilton. OK. You see Hilton? That's Gary Michael Hilton.
Now, you guys at home watch these two together. Let's put them side-by-side now, Will. Now, we're looking at that. Folks at home are looking at that. And you, Mr. Frady would say, that you're convinced there's a similarity there.
FRADY: Right.
SANCHEZ: What have you said to the police, and what have they said to you about this case?
FRADY: I haven't heard anything. The only time I've heard anything was that the GBI was convinced that they weren't linked. It may not be, and there have been no witness.
SANCHEZ: Well, here's why they say there's no link. They say that it's a different MO (ph), different motive. They say that in the case of these other folks, or certainly in the case of the north Georgia case, she was shot, or that in Levi's case, pardon me I misspoke, he was shot. In the other cases, it didn't happen that way. In Levi's case, there was no robbery, and in the other cases, apparently, there were ATM cards and stolen credit cards and that type of thing. So that's why they are saying it's different. You buy that?
FRADY: Yes, I buy that. However, the man obviously is a drifter. He could have very well been the person that was walking down Little Mill Road when my little cousin was kidnapped.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
FRADY: He could have seen something that they might not have.
SANCHEZ: You know what's interesting about your case, and I know that you've made this a very important point of contention. And that is that what happened to him was only what? A mile or a couple of miles from the north Georgia forest where she disappeared?
FRADY: Right. Actually, I believe they found her body about a mile and a half away from where they had found his body.
SANCHEZ: So you're making -- you're basing much of your argument on proximity?
FRADY: Not only that, but where Meredith Emerson's clothes were found, that's only about three miles from where Levi's house where he used to live at that time.
SANCHEZ: What do you think of this guy? I mean, you're sitting there after dealing with this horrible loss in your family, and now all these reports are surfacing about what he did, how he allegedly kept her alive for three days, I should say, alleged. Right now, he is just a suspect although he has talked to police about this case. About the decapitation. What has been going on in your head over the last week as you've been getting these horrible details? FRADY: Well, this man is obviously the devil in the flesh. If he's not the one that had anything to do with my cousin's murder, whoever it is, they're the devil in the flesh, also.
SANCHEZ: Say that one more time.
FRADY: I said he's the devil in the flesh.
SANCHEZ: Now, the GBI, again, is saying that they don't have enough information to link this case. But what are you going to do when you talk to the GBI about this case?
FRADY: If I talk to the GBI about it, I would simply ask them to question the man. Whether he did it or not, I don't know. But he may have saw something that may have been him walking down the road that night.
SANCHEZ: It's a tough question to ask but I've got to ask you when we look into things like this. Is there anything else that would have caused the disappearance? Was he having any kind of problems in his life, either with friends or with family? Had anybody threatened him at the time?
FRADY: I don't think many 11-year-olds have problems like that.
SANCHEZ: I certainly wouldn't think so, either. But you know, you want to be able to go to the GBI and say, look, this is a good kid. Nothing was going on in his life. He just went out one day and suddenly he disappeared, and this man is the same man who's been involved in these other cases. And I imagine that's going to be part of your argument.
Justin Frady, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate and we certainly understand your loss. And I know it's a difficult thing to talk about but hopefully there'll be some justice in this case.
FRADY: I hope so.
SANCHEZ: Coming up at the top of the hour, how has becoming the mother of twins changed Nancy Grace? She's going to join Larry King in just a little bit. It's coming up minutes from now. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Every once in awhile, we get our hands on some unbelievable video. Look at this. It's from Pontiac, Illinois.
It's a woman who is floating down a river in a town that has had most of its rivers flooded, but they can't get to her. She goes under one bridge, then another bridge, then another bridge. Until finally, they throw a life ring at her and they're able to grab her, go in the water and take her out. She says she's been documenting emergencies for quite some time there until finally, they saw the real thing. That's what the mayor says.
Thanks for being with us. I'm Rick Sanchez. Larry King coming up next. Oh, here's that zoom shot you like so much. Ready?
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