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One World with Zain Asher

Turkey Expects To Have A Presidential Runoff On May 28; Zelenskyy Secures Weapons From U.K. In Preparation For Counteroffensive; Conflict In Sudan Continues On Its Fourth Week; Authorities Say The Expiration Of Title 42 Has Not Led To Migrant Surge; Nuclear Fusion Laboratory Attempts To Replicate The Power Of The Sun; Cyclone Mocha Causes Devastation In Myanmar And Bangladesh; Biden Remains Optimistic About Debt Ceiling Negotiations; Ja Morant Receives Disciplinary Action For Apparent Gun Video. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired May 15, 2023 - 12:00   ET



ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, everyone. I'm Zain Asher in New York and this is ONE WORLD. Turkey will hold round two as a

nail-biting presidential election results in a runoff and leading candidates are now trying to re-energize voters for the next ballot less

than two weeks away. Sunday's poll came down to the wire, pushing the country into uncharted territory.

Turkey's current President Recep Tayyip Erdogan did better than expected and received just below the 50 percent threshold lead to secure outright

victory, but his main rival, opposition leader, Kemal Kilicdaroglu, is vowing not to give up and swears he will fight until the end. Turkey is an

important NATO ally, and the vote is being closely watched around the world.

CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is live for us now in Istanbul. So, essentially, both candidates are here being given a second chance to appeal to voters.

What will the next two weeks look like, Jomana, in terms of campaigning?

Jomana Karadsheh, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look Zain, there has been a lot of concern. The scenario of a second round has been something people have

considered before going into this election and the concern was that the opposition that went into this first round really galvanized, really united

that, you know, they might not have that same kind of enthusiasm amongst their supporters after really campaigning on this platform of bringing

change to this country saying now is the time for change, and that they will transform this country and take it back to being a real democracy and

really people.

So many people believed in that vision, believed in that promise. And I mean, you look at the turnout

yesterday, Turkey does historically have a high turnout but again this is a record high turnout for this country at nearly 90 percent of eligible

voters. I mean we were at the polling centers and you saw the elderly coming in on stretchers and wheelchairs.

And people really feeling and even first time voters feeling that they need to have their say in what they felt is this most consequential of elections

for their country, that this will determine the direction that Turkey is going to be taking the future, that this is not just about the next five

years who will rule this country, it is about these two different visions, these two different countries that people envision themselves living in.

And this is what they presented with. And if you look at the results of this, and you can see that this is a polarized country. This is a divided

nation as we have known all along and the results would tell you that despite the fact that President Erdogan's ratings have suffered losses over

the past couple of years especially because of the state of the economy. And then you had all the criticism that he faced in the early days

following the devastating earthquake in February, following what many would describe as that disastrous initial response, the lack of preparedness.

And there was all this speculation about how much this was going to cost him at the polls. And then you look at these results and you can still see

that despite that it does appear while he didn't come out of this victorious, this is still a win for President Erdogan that he still has the

support of about fifty percent of this country nearly that he still has the support of his base. And so, we have to wait and see whether the

opposition, again, as you mentioned, still vowing, still saying that they will continue, they will fight until the end, that they're going nowhere,

promising that they can still win this.

Will they be able to keep that sort of optimistic outlook amongst their supporters, still convince people to come out? Will they be able to get any

undecided voters? I mean, there is just so much that can happen over the next couple of weeks in what will be the second round of an election like

no other in the history of this country.

ASHER: Yeah, because as you mentioned, there's just so much at stake, especially when it comes to the direction of the economy. Obviously, high

inflation, President Erdogan has been reluctant to raise interest rates. You've also got foreign policy issues at stake in terms of relationship

with NATO. And even the parliamentary system is also in the sort of crosshairs of all of this.


Just explain to us, going into round two, the fact that you no longer have Sinan Ogan, the third-party candidate who only got five percent of the

vote, the fact that he's gonna be eliminated, what will that mean for the outcome in terms of how Kemal Kilicdaroglu and Erdogan will do?

KARADSHEH: Look, you've got Sinan Ogan who is an ultra- nationalist who basically got about just over five percent of the vote and right now when

you have that candidate eliminated, those are up for grabs pretty much. Now the question is, is he going to come out and support either side in this

race? Is he going to endorse either of these candidates? And does this mean that those who voted for him will vote for either of those candidates in

the next round? That's still unclear.

I mean, he spoke a short time ago with our Becky Anderson and he said that he hasn't decided that he is going to be in consultation with other members

of his coalition. Because if you look at the votes, Zain, that he got, this five percent or so, this is a combination of disenchanted nationalists and

also some of the protest votes, people who are unhappy with the choice of Kemal Kilicdaroglu as the opposition's main candidate.

So, the question is, five percent, that is significant, that is going to be critical in the next round. Will he get into any sort of an agreement with

any of the coalitions, any of the parties that are running? Are we going to see people who voted for him also switch and follow him in this, or are

they going to do what they want to do and vote for whoever they believe should lead the country next.

So, there's five percent for grabs. You've also got undecided voters. There's just so much that could happen in the next couple of weeks. We'll

have to wait and see how it all plays out.

AHER: Yeah, I trust that you'll be watching closely. All right, Jomana Karadsheh, live for us there, thank you so much. Ukraine's big spring

offensive is coming and its president wants to have his big supporters lined up ahead of time. The latest stop on Volodymir Zelenskyy's whirlwind

tour of Europe was England, where he met today with the Prime Minister Rishi Sunak at his country estate at Chequers. The UK has promised an aid

package that includes drones and missiles. President Zelenskyy, however, continues to push for fighter jets. And he had this to say about the timing

of his country's long anticipated counter-offensive.


VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: We really need some -- some more time, not too much. We will be ready, you know, in some time, like I want

to be very honest with you. I can't share with you some days. I just don't want to prepare, not for our friends. There are no secrets from our

friends, but there are some secrets from our neighbors.


ASHER: Meantime on the battlefield, Russia is dealing with setbacks. First, Russia's Defense Ministry says that two commanders were killed in action in

the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine. Russia rarely announces such deaths. This, as Ukraine's Deputy Defense Minister says Ukrainian forces have

captured more than 10 Russian positions near Bakhmut. Months of fierce battles have left the eastern Ukrainian city nearly empty and heavily


Sam Kiley, CNN Senior International is in southeastern Ukraine with the very latest. So, Sam, we know that the U.K. recently gave Ukraine several

storm shadow long-range missiles in addition to about $7 billion worth of military aid, so far. Just walk us through what more Zelenskyy needs from

the U.K. at this point in time as they prepare for that counter-offensive.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL: Well, Zain, on his shopping trip effectively around Europe in which he was given fulsome diplomatic support

but more importantly is leaving with the promise of a trolley full of equipment particularly from Germany in the United Kingdom. He's been able

to secure from the British for example long-range killer drones, longer range missiles, more anti-aircraft missiles, more ammunition and from

Germany, anti-aircraft tanks as they call them there, wide-range of armored vehicles and tanks. All of it extremely important as Ukraine prepares for

what is being vaunted, much vaunted, summer offensive.

So, that has been successful. What he hasn't yet been successful on, but there are indications that he might be, is in terms of securing the

donations or even sale of F-16 fighter aircraft, fighter bombers, which is clear now the Ukrainians have settled upon as their ideal aircraft to

prosecute this war. So far, NATO and particularly the United States have balked at supplying what effectively is a strategic weapon in their view

for fear of retaliation on a nuclear level perhaps from Russia.


But the British have now said that come in the summer, so imminently they will begin training Ukrainian pilots in NATO tactics. Now, they don't have

any F-16s to give, but they are very vocal in their support of the idea that Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians should get those F-16s.

And they will be, or would be, very, very useful indeed, since they're pretty much superior to anything that the Russians can put into the air,

especially if you combine them with that heavy NATO firepower, the very sophisticated firepower such as Storm Shadow, the British and Anglo-French

cruise missile that is now in the Ukrainian army and being put to use.

So, that ultimately is what the campaign will be all about. It will really hang from the Ukrainian perspective on whether or not they can get behind

the Russian frontlines and break the back of the logistics structures. If they can do that, they're hoping to actually collapse the whole Russian war

effort here in pretty short order. That is their hope. There is no guarantee of that at all.

Of course, the Russians know it's coming and been digging in. They may have abandoned or may even not have, according to Ukraine intelligence, the

capability now to launch offensive operations of any great significance, but that doesn't mean they can't defend the territory that they're already

in, Zain.

ASHER: And as you mentioned, though, the F-16s would be a game changer for the Ukrainians in combination with what they already have. Sam Kiley, live

for us there. Thank you so much. A hospital in Sudan's capital has been damaged amid fighting between rival factions. The paramilitary rapid

support forces blame Sudan's military for the airstrikes on the East Nile Hospital.

Sudan's army says it was targeting R.S.F. weapons and fuel in that area. This, as the U.N. says more than 600 people have been killed and nearly a

million displaced in four weeks of fighting. Larry Madowo joins us live now from Nairobi, Kenya. Larry, it's incredible to see images of just in terms

of what's happening to hospitals and also what doctors are up against. Just walk us through the very latest.

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Zain, this attack on the Eastern Isle Hospital in the capital Khartoum kind of underscores the futility of all

these attempts at a ceasefire. Last Friday, the two parties signed what is called a declaration of intent to protect civilian lives, but that does not

seem to be playing out. In this latest attack, the rapid support forces, this is the paramilitary group that's been fighting with the Sudanese army,

claims that it was hit with airstrikes and caused significant damage to the building.

They posted this video that shows some of that damage to the hospital and they say that this is a violation of international humanitarian law.

Hospitals are supposed to be protected, the wounded are supposed to be going there, they're supposed to be able to operate even in times of war.

But here's the thing that we've been seeing throughout the last 30 days of this conflict, the blame game back and forth, because the Sudanese army

confirmed that it did attack this hospital, but it said that it targeted weapons, fuel, and ammunition that was stored nearby, and is also accusing

the rapid support forces of essentially occupying this hospital from the beginning of the conflict in violation of international humanitarian law.

So, both sides accusing the other of violating international humanitarian law.

But zoom out here, because like I mentioned, on Friday, the two warring sides sent their representatives to Jeddah in Saudi Arabia. They signed

what is called a declaration of intent to protect civilian lives. It is not a ceasefire, but it is the first step. And after this, they were supposed

to then work out a way to agree on a 10-day ceasefire so that people can get help. So many people who don't have food or medicines or water, basic

necessities, can get that.

But this flies in the face of that. Even as this conflict, Zain, has now marked 30 days, the U.N. saying 676 people have died, 936,000 people have

been displaced, including 200,000 that have crossed over to neighboring countries like Chad and South Sudan and Egypt and Ethiopia.

ASHER: All right, Larry Madowo, live for us there. Thank you so much. Now, to the tense situation at the U.S. southern border with Mexico, authorities

say the expiration of a Trump era border policy known as Title 42 has actually not led to a surge in migrants as had been expected. In fact, the

U.S. Homeland Security Secretary says that border authorities actually saw a 50% drop in the number of migrant encounters compared to earlier in the

week. But Alejandro Mayorkas says it's too early to say whether the surge has peaked but border towns, of course, still on high alert.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is in El Paso, Texas. So, the numbers have been muted far less, Polo, than what people had been. anticipated. Is that partly

because of some of the deterrent measures that Biden administration has put in place after the expiration of Title 42?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a key question, Zain, and the answer really depends on who you ask.


The Biden administration will say that some of the stricter policies that were rolled out ahead of the expiration of Title 42 certainly discouraged,

according to them, some of those migrants from crossing illegally into the U.S. And so the result, according to the head of the Department of Homeland

Security here in the United States, has been that approximately 50 percent decrease in border apprehensions.

So, we need to be very clear that's actually the number of people that are being detained by federal authorities dropping from about 9000 to about

4000 in the last several days. But also to be clear, what still remains is the strain on some of the resources here in border communities. For

example, some of the migrant shelters, one of them that you see behind me, they are still at or near capacity.

So, that is why we've seen a smaller number, but nonetheless a number of people basically sleeping on the sidewalk here. These are adult migrants.

All the families are, for the most part, inside of some of the area shelters here.

And the people that you'll find in border communities the last several days, they're in a state of limbo. Many of them, if not most, have been

apprehended, processed by federal authorities, released, and now they're waiting for their opportunity to get on airplanes or on buses to continue

with their journey.

I've spoken to many of them here, Zain, and they tell me that their goal is to get to Denver, Colorado, and from there, perhaps make it to Chicago.

Many of them also, New York City, continues to be sort of their north star.

So, those are the numbers that will continue to climb in terms of asylum seekers that are settling in for what may be their temporary lives in the

city. But in terms of the situation on the border, it is certainly not the surge or the chaos that federal officials were anticipating.

Though, we will certainly have to track those numbers and see if that does happen. The key metric here will be the rate of release. If we see a large

number of migrants that are released by federal authorities in a short period of time, then you could see the crowds on the sidewalks grow but

that is not what's happening right now.

ASHER: Yeah, just looking behind you and seeing several people taking shelter on the streets because, as you mentioned, those migrant facilities

are indeed full. Polo Sandoval, live for us. Thank you. All right, still to come here on One World, the fury of nature. Cyclone Mocha batters Myanmar

with strong winds and heavy rain. Also ahead --


TAMMY MA, INERTIAL FUSION ENERGY INITIATIVE LEAD: Every time we do a shot, it's a thousand times the power of the entire U.S. electrical grid.


ASHER: CNN Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir gets a look inside a nuclear fusion lab that's trying to build a star on Earth. And later, an

NBA superstar suspended again, while at least one former player is saying Jarmarant shouldn't be allowed to play at all next season.




ASHER: A powerful storm is leaving a trail of destruction in parts of Myanmar and Bangladesh, where residents are trying to pick up the pieces

after Cyclone Mocha pummeled the area. Strong winds blew the roofs off buildings, uprooted trees, and knocked down power lines on Sunday. Reports

say at least three people were killed and many injured. Here's our Vedika Sud with more.

VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER: Tropical cyclone Mocha pummeled into the northwestern coast of Myanmar Sunday afternoon local time. Communication

and power lines in parts of Rakin, the westernmost state in Myanmar, have been down. It may take days to ascertain the extent of damage caused by the

cyclone with wind speeds of over 200 kmph.

People were seen hunkering down in temporary shelters. Videos show powerful gusts of wind uprooting trees. Tin roofs have blown off. Storm surge as

high as three meters have inundated low-lying area, Sittwe, the capital of Rakhine State. Early reports suggest the damage is extensive.

According to aid agencies, this is one of the strongest cyclones to ever hit Myanmar. Before the storm, aid agencies in Myanmar and Bangladesh

launched a massive emergency plan to minimize the risk of injury and destruction. They had feared that Mocha would hit Cox's Bazar in

Bangladesh, where about one million members of the stateless Rohingya community live, but the tropical cyclone made landfall further south.


HASINA RAHMAN, DIRECTOR FOR BANGLADESH, INTERNATIONAL RESCUE COMMITTEE: It was a close call and we're just really happy that we've been able to

contain this damage with minimal loss.


SUD: The last storm with similar strength to make landfall was tropical cyclone Giri in 2010. It caused more than 150 deaths and destroyed over

15,000 homes in Rocking State. Vedika Sud, CNN, New Delhi.

ASHER: People in the U.S. state of Missouri are cleaning up after flash floods on Sunday. The fire department had to perform numerous rescues after

more than a dozen vehicles were submerged by flood waters. Close to half a million people were under a flood warning and told to move to higher

ground. And as a risk, additional rainfall could cause more flash floods today.

For decades, researchers have been trying to find alternative sources of energy, a way to create power that's both plentiful and practical which

won't poison our planet. Now, it seems humankind is on the verge of harnessing the elusive power of the stars. CNN's Chief Climate

Correspondent Bill Weir tells us about the latest breakthrough in nuclear fusion.


BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Inside this building, some very smart people built a star on Earth. Not the Hollywood kind, that's easy,

nor the burning ball of gas in the sky kind. One of the hardest things humans have ever tried.

MA: I was at the airport when my boss called me and I burst into tears.

WEIR (voice-over): Tammy Ma is among the scientists who have been chasing nuclear fusion for generations.

UNKNOWN: Countdown for shot on my mark, three, two, unmarked.

WEIR (voice-over): And in the middle of a December night, they did it.

WEIR: And you only need a tiny little bit of fuel.

MA: That's right, yeah. Because our little pellet that sits right in the middle, you can't even see it on this target, is just two millimeters in


WEIR (voice-over): That target includes an abundant isotope found in seawater and goes into a chamber about the size of a beach ball in the 60s,

but is now a round room 30 feet across with 192 massive lasers aimed at the center. They're big laser beams about 40 by 40 centimeters.

WEIR: Wow.

MA: Each one alone is one of the most energetic in the world. Every time we do a shot, it's a thousand times the power of the entire U.S. electrical

grid. But your lights don't flicker at home when we take a shot. So what we're doing is taking a huge amount of energy and compressing it down just

into nanoseconds.

WEIR: Right.

MA: So, it's about $14 of electricity.

WEIR (voice-over): The National Ignition Facility then amplifies all that concentrated energy on the target. And if they get it just right, more

energy comes out than went in, with no risk of nuclear meltdown or radioactive waste.

MA: In a fusion power plant, you would shoot the same target over and over at about 10 times a second, dropping

Target in and shooting it with laser.

WEIR: So, you'd need a target loader like a machine gun or something, right?

MA: We need a target loader, exactly. So there's still many, many technology jumps that we need to make. But that's what makes it so

exciting, right?

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, U.S. ENERGY SECRETARY: A lot of people were saying you've invested all this money, time to pull the plug because you guys

haven't achieved ignition. I mean, it's called the National Ignition Facility, right?

WEIR: Right, at some point you better get that middle one --

GRANHOLM: At some point you better ignite. Yes, exactly. I mean, it's really hard to replicate the process that's happening on the sun on Earth.

It's just really hard.


And so, when that happened in December, what it said is that this is actually possible. So, it's no longer a question of whether, it's just a

question of when that fusion is actually possible. Now, let's get to work.

WEIR: While conventional wisdom and the International Energy Agency tells us it will be decades before anybody is really plugging anything into

fusion electricity, there is a startup called Helion, which says they have a reactor that can fire plasma rings at a million miles an hour and will

demonstrate electricity by next year. And in fact, in a first-of-a-kind power purchase agreement, Microsoft has already bought fusion electricity

from Helion for the year 2028. The future is coming fast. Bill Weir, CNN, in Northern California.


ASHER: All right, still to come here on One World, after ruling Turkey for two decades with a firm hand, President Erdogan was hoping to cement his

power, but the election is now headed for a runoff. Details coming up.


ASHER: Hello, welcome back to One World. Let's catch up on the headlines. U.S. President Joe Biden not giving an update today after saying debt

ceiling negotiations were moving along. Talks between Mr. Biden and congressional leaders are expected to resume, Tuesday. The U.S. Treasury

warns the government could run out of money by June 1st, causing what it calls an economic catastrophe.

A 78-year-old American citizen has been sentenced by a Chinese court to life in prison on spying charges. John Shing-Wan Leung, who's a Hong Kong

permanent resident as well, was convicted today in the city of Suzhou. Beijing hasn't provided any further details. In China, cases involving

state security are usually handled behind closed doors.


In Thailand, opposition parties have trounced the military-backed establishment that has ruled the country for nearly a decade. The leader of

the progressive Move Forward Party, which is projected to win 151 seats, is proposing an alliance with him as the prime minister. It's not clear at

this point who will take power.

The future of Turkey hangs in the balance at this hour, as its most consequential presidential election in decades results in a runoff. Recep

Tayyip Erdogan did better in Sunday's ballot than opposition leader Kemal Kilicdaroglu, but the country's president fell short of the 50 percent

threshold needed to secure an outright victory. President Erdogan has dominated Turkey's political landscape for 20 years, ruling with what

critics say is an increasingly authoritarian hand.

But he's now facing the strongest threat to his power yet from a rival pledging to return the country to a much more democratic path. The election

comes as Turkey grapples with sky-high inflation, a painful cost of living crisis and three months after the government was heavily criticized for its

response to two devastating earthquakes that ravaged the entire regions. The runoff election is being watched very closely worldwide.

Turkey is, of course, a NATO member but has maintained simultaneously close ties with Russia and Ankara is frequently at the center of international

negotiations. Turkish-American professional basketball player Enes Kanter Freedom is an outspoken critic of President Erdogan. Earlier, he spoke to

CNN about the importance of what comes next in his nation.


ENES KANTER FREEDOM, TURKISH-AMERICAN BASKETBALL PLAYER: Turkey is a NATO ally, but Erdogan does not act like a NATO ally. I mean, I keep saying that

all the time, and Erdogan is the Trojan horse for Putin in NATO. He acts more like a Russian ally than an American ally. And I mean, with Turkey

now, you know, everyone is just saying, enough is enough, because people are still suffering, economy is going bad, and Turkey is playing a very

strategic role in Europe and Middle East so, we've got to do whatever we can to get them out of the seat.

ASHER: Time now for the exchange and my conversation with Soner Cagaptay. He's the Director of the Turkish Research Program at the Washington

Institute for Near East Policy and he's also the Author of "A Sultan in Autumn: Erdogan Faces Turkey's Uncontainable Forces".

Soner joins us live now. Soner, I wanna get your take on the results, so far. You and I actually spoke last week, but I wanna get your take on the

results, so far. I mean, would you -- do you believe that this actually does represent somewhat of a win for Erdogan? I mean, despite the fact that

you saw the results in 2008, for example, outright victory for him back then, and also the fact that he's dominated Turkish politics for the past

20 years, are these a win for Erdogan?

SONER CAGAPTAY, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: He did not win outright. He did not win 50 percent, given his incumbent advantages near

complete control over the media. So, it's not a perfect win for him, but it's also not a win for opposition candidate Kilicdaroglu, who polls showed

were doing slightly better. Most polls were predicting a tete-a-tete outcome with Erdogan and Kilicdaroglu falling within the same percent


So, considering that Erdogan's bloc has also won elections for the parliament, I think I would say at this stage, although Erdogan has not

won, he has natural momentum behind him, and he's likely the winner in the run-off. But clearly, this was a humbling moment for him, because Erdogan

is a brand as an invincible political leader, and he couldn't get to 50 percent, notwithstanding the very strong grip he has over many of Turkey's


ASHER: So, his invincibility has been shaken, but still obviously doing better than Kilicdaroglu. The fact that you now have Ogan, is gonna be

gone, obviously, in terms of the run-up election, how will that reshape the landscape come May 28th?

CAGAPTAY: So, one of the reasons, I think Mr. Kilicdaroglu could not get to 50 percent is because third poll candidates emerge, including OAN, who

rallies on an anti-immigrant, anti-refugee platform. Turkey now has its own anti-immigrant party, like most other European countries. And I think the

press support for Mr. Kilicdaroglu -- but more importantly, I would say Kilicdaroglu was denied a fair race. This was an incomplete -- completely

unfair race, although the vote was free.

And it was as if it was a 400-meter relay race. Kilicdaroglu was running the entire 400 meters. Erdogan was running just the last 100 meters.

Kilicdaroglu ran really well. He almost caught up with Erdogan, but not quite. And I think at this stage, therefore, it goes without saying that

considering Erdogan's incumbency advantages, he's probably going to win.


What is that incumbency advantage? Ninety percent of the media in Turkey is controlled by businesses loyal to Erdogan. Eighty percent of the citizens

do not read languages other than Turkish. So, Erdogan was able to write a narrative for the electorate to digest 80 percent of the electorate debt is

curated by Erdogan, news that they got.

The electorate did not hear discussions of inflation reaching 50 percent, lackluster relief aid by government agencies after the devastating

earthquakes, or journalists and politicians in jail. Rather, they heard about how this earthquake was a force majeure, railway lines were twisted

by 10 meters, 30 feet, no government could have handled it better, and more importantly, that Erdogan had made Turkey a military industrial power.

That is post-truth narrative. That is sort of you creating a reality based on not facts but reality, but you -- lies -- but you repeat it so often

that it becomes reality and the electorate forgets it that it was lies to begin with. I think if Erdogan wins it in two weeks, it will be a win based

on a post-truth reality.

ASHER: Despite the incumbency advantage that you talk about, he still obviously suffered in the polls. I mean, the fact that he got 49 percent.

Yes, you know, as we just said, you could, I guess look at that as somewhat of a win because he did better than Kilicdaroglu, but he's also doing far

worse than he should be doing, given the incumbent advantage. And also, even if people aren't hearing about what's happening with the economy,

surely they are feeling it when you have inflation at over 80 percent and sky-high prices and the fact that Erdogan isn't willing to raise interest

rates. All of that is affecting ordinary people.

CAGAPTAY: It is indeed. And I think that this doesn't really bode well going forward if Erdogan doubles down on unorthodox economic policies as

well as other issues of democratic transgressions at home. I think one of the sad takeaways of the outcome of the election is that educated Turks and

youth will give up any hope that Erdogan can be voted out if he cannot vote him out when inflation is at 50 percent when.

So, this could result in large brain drain from Turkey going forward. That is yet to be seen. I think that we're hoping for a free, more fair race in

the runoff, good luck with that, but definitely a free vote. And let's see what happens on May 28th, of course.

ASHER: Okay, so what does Kilicdaroglu need to do over the next two weeks to change the outcome? I mean, obviously, you believe that perhaps it is

likely that Erdogan is going to win, you can sort of look at the numbers, and I can see why you would think that, but surely there is a chance for

Kilicdaroglu to reshape what's gonna happen here.

CAGAPTAY: So, I believe Erdogan has controlled his use of the media to target Kilicdaroglu's Alevi Muslim identity. Alevis are universalist

Muslims, Erdogan comes from the Sunni and more orthodox branch of Islam. There were thinly veiled attacks against Kilicdaroglu.

While these attacks did not make a dent in his popularity in big cities, I think in middle Turkey, in the country center they did, that suppressed his

popularity a little bit. What is more, Kilicdaroglu was backed by a pro- Kurdish party and Erdogan framed this as Kilicdaroglu being backed by a terrorist group, completely fake news. But these allegations also held some


So, I think it's up to him to deflect these attacks on his identity and also support for his party from the pro-Kurdish alliance. He also has to

come up and inspire. He's now coming from behind. Erdogan is leading. It looks like momentum is with Erdogan. I think Kilicdaroglu has to make a

case that, notwithstanding the not impressive turnout for him, the second round, the electorate should rally behind him because he can govern Turkey

more effectively than Erdogan.

The brand that Erdogan has successfully marketed is that he's made Turkey a military industrial giant. And I think the electorate kind of fell for

that. And Kilicdaroglu has to make a case that he can do that and he can do it better.

ASHER: Some people were actually expecting Kilicdaroglu to do better, especially given that Muharrem Ince dropped out of the race --

CAGAPTAY: That's correct.

ASHER: -- just before -- just before the elections, late last week. And still, you know, he ended up coming squarely in second place. Mr. Cagaptay,

thank you so much for being with us. We'll be right back.

CAGAPTAY: My pleasure, thank you.




ASHER: Talks between President Biden and congressional leaders are expected to resume Tuesday at the nation inches closer to defaulting on trillions of

dollars worth of debt. Talks between the White House and Congress have caused tempers to flare, but now sources tell CNN the temperature could

just be right for bargaining.


JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: What I've learned a long time ago, and you know as well as I do, it's never as good to characterize a negotiation in the

middle of a negotiation. I remain optimistic because I'm a congenital optimist. But I really think there's a desire on their part as well as ours

to reach agreement. I think we'll be able to do it.


ASHER: Despite the President's sunny outlook, economic experts predict fears about a potential default could be reflected in the markets. One of

the President's top advisors says that Congress needs a long-term solution to the problem, not a Band-Aid.


LAEL BRAINARD, ECONOMIC ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: When I talk to CEOs to business leaders around the country, they tell me things are actually going

very well. But their biggest concern is that Congress might fail to prevent default and that that would be catastrophic. Our expectation is that

Congress will act to avert default in a timely manner.


ASHER: With tightly packed schedules for the President and limited time for Congress to act, negotiations may run out the clock. CNN's Alayna Treene

has more from Washington.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: This is a hugely consequential week for these debt limit negotiations. Senior staff for congressional leadership and the

White House have been meeting daily. And I am told that modest progress has been made. But there is still no deal yet. The two sides remain far apart,

but they have begun to identify key policy areas where they could find common ground.

Some of these topics include looking at permitting reform, rescinding unspent COVID relief funds, as well as looking at some spending cuts. Now,

the Biden administration has repeatedly said that spending cuts should not be part of a potential deal. But I am told increasingly that people within

the West Wing recognize it's something that they'll likely have to cave on.

I did speak with one source close to the negotiations, and they told me that if these talks are taking place in February, months ago, they'd be

bullish about the prospects for a deal. But the reality is they don't have months to negotiate. We are two and a half weeks away from June 1st, and

that is the deadline that the Treasury Department has said that the government could default on its debt. It's also a timeline that was backed

up by the Congressional Budget Office on Friday, which predicted that a default is likely within the first two weeks of June.

Deputy Treasury Secretary Wally Adeyemo was on CNN this Sunday warning about the perils of failing to reach a deal. Let's listen to what he had to



WALLY ADEYEMO, U.S. DEPUTY SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY: The President made very clear that the Speaker in their first meeting that he's happy to talk

about our fiscal path forward. The President's laid out a plan that includes $3 trillion of debt relief over 10 years, and he's happy to talk

to the Speaker about things that we can do to implement a plan that makes sure that we're able to meet our commitments to our seniors, to our troops,

and to the men and women and the American people.


But we shouldn't be here. We shouldn't be paying the American people's bills day by day with the idea that we would have a debt limit default if

Congress didn't lift the debt limit.


TREENE: Now, we'll see these talks continue this week. The President and the top four congressional leaders are expected to meet again in the coming

days. But the reality is they likely need to have a deal in hand within the next week in order to get a bill through Congress by June 1st. Remember,

Congress moves very slowly. Once they have a deal, they still need to draft a bill, sell it to both the House and the Senate, and then try to get

enough support to pass it.

And that is a huge obstacle to overcome, especially in the short time frame that they have. But so far, leaders on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue are

remaining hopeful that they can reach a deal in time and avoid the first- ever government default. Alayna Treene, CNN, Washington.

ASHER: The U.S. is facing a childcare crisis. It's typically one of the biggest expenses for families, possibly costing them as much as rent.

That's why some parents, especially mothers, have chosen to drop out of the workforce to save that money. But as CNN's Natasha Chen reports, there is a

push to change that.


BRIE DWIGHT, MOTHER: Let's pick out a book.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brie Dwight says a nanny used to cost $15 an hour when her first daughter was born five years ago. Now, with her new

baby, it's at least $25 an hour.

DWIGHT: It lights the moon.

CHEN (voice-over): The U.S. Department of Labor says the median cost of child care can range from more than $5,000 a year in small counties up to

more than $17,000 a year in very large counties. That can mean nearly a fifth of the median family income in the U.S. per child.

DWIGHT: At first, I couldn't believe it, but then when you go to the store and see a loaf of bread is $7, it kind of makes sense.

CHEN: She receives $7,500 a year in child care subsidies from her employer, soap manufacturer Dr. Bronner's. Even so, she'll have used it all by

midyear due to high costs. Nearly 16,000 providers permanently shut down their facilities during the pandemic, according to a report from the non-

profit Child Care Aware of America. Then, the so-called great resignation of workers quitting for better paying jobs, coupled with soaring inflation,

pushed up the price child care providers need to charge.

DWIGHT: We wouldn't be able to pay $15 an hour and know that they can afford a place to live.

CHEN: The cost of operating is up at Sanderling Waldorf School in California, where they offer tuition assistance to eligible families.

UNKNOWN: I'm going to show you the tricky ones.

ANDREW UPRICHARD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SANDERLING WALDORF SCHOOL: But actually, what we're finding is that gap is too big and actually we're

losing families because of it.

CHEN: Decreasing child care costs by 10 percent could result in up to two and a half percent more mothers in the workforce according to the U.S.

Department of Commerce.

JEFF MCADAM, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TOOTRIS: The child care programs started to close down left and right. These working parents, especially

moms, worked sideline and they don't included in the unemployment numbers.

CHEN: Jeff McAdam is with TOOTRIS, a platform for finding child care and administering child care benefits. He says their partnerships with

companies offering these subsidies shot up five percent last year. In April, President Biden signed an executive order calling on federal

agencies to try to lower the cost and expand access to child care for their workers, and the recent CHIPS Act tries to draw semiconductor business to

the U.S. by letting them qualify for over $150 million of federal funding only if they have a plan for employee access to child care.


CHEN: Miracosta College prepares students for those semiconductor jobs, but saw a drop in female student enrollment since the start of the pandemic.

KUROKAWA: I suspect that a lot of them discovered that by staying at home, they were saving an awful lot of money. So, the college is partnering with

TOOTRIS, too, and got a grant to offer some child care subsidies beginning this summer.


CHEN: Adriana Gonzalez is a Miracosta alum.

GONZALEZ: I'm a single mom.

CHEN: She was still paying for after school care for her son when she first enrolled.

GONZALEZ: Even for the Boys and Girls Club, they were 50 back then. Now it's like 230. I couldn't study. I was thinking about my eviction notice.

CHEN: Now she makes more money as an engineering technician and can breathe a little easier. The hope is that future students can benefit from a little

child care assistance, but even the best subsidies can only take parents so far. How do you make the rest of the year work?

DWIGHT: We just are gonna be cutting back.

CHEN (voice-over): Natasha Chen, CNN, Carlsbad, California.


ASHER: Sweden is celebrating today after one of its own made music history. Pop Singer Loreen won the Eurovision Song Contest with her ballad,

"Tattoo", she's the first woman to win Eurovision twice, having previously taken home the prize in 2012. Her win means Sweden now has won Eurovision

seven times, tying Ireland as the most decorated nation in the contest.


And coming up, making history in her sport. Even before she steps onto a playing field, the referee breaking gender barriers in rugby.


ASHER: The NBA's Memphis Grizzlies have suspended star player Ja Morant from all team activities that happened after a video surfaced in which he

appeared to be displaying a gun. It's the second such video involving Morant holding a firearm. Coy Wire tells us about what appears to be a

troubling pattern of behavior from the young superstar.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS: Will John Morant be able to get his off court issues under control? That is certainly the question, Zain. He's one of the most

gifted athletes in the NBA and sometimes those players get more chances than others. But he's certainly pushing the limits. The NBA tells us

they're still gathering details and aside from announcing the suspension, the Grizzlies, well, they're deferring to the league.

Chandler Parsons, who played in Memphis for three years, though never teammates with Morant, tweeted that he believes Morant should not be

allowed to play at all next season. ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski is reporting that Commissioner Adam Silver could start seeing increased pressure from

other teams around the league to hand down a tougher, lengthier suspension to start next season.

It's important to note that after he was seen flashing a gun in March, Morant checked himself into a counseling program. He admitted he needed to

get a better handle on dealing with the pressure he faces as a star in the NBA. He had met face to face with the Commissioner who described Morant's

actions at the time as quote, irresponsible, reckless and potentially very dangerous, unquote.

Here's Morant just two weeks ago after the Grizzlies were knocked out of the playoffs by the Lakers.


JA MORANT. MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES GUARD: I just got to be better, you know, with my decision making. That's pretty much it, you know, off-court issues, you

know, affected us as, you know, organization pretty much. So, yeah, just more discipline.


WIRE: Now, Zain, whether he can control the off the court issues and that self-proclaimed need for more discipline, well that's ultimately going to

determine Ja Morant's future in the league.

ASHER: A pioneer for women in the world of rugby has hit the pitch. Joy Neville is about to become the first woman to officiate at a Men's Rugby

World Cup.


She's been selected as part of a TV match official panel ahead of the tournament in Francis Fall. But even though she's making history, Neville

remains modest, saying merit is always more important than the accolades.


JOY NEVILLE, RUGBY REFEREE: I'd like to think that I'm there because I'm good enough to be there and I have to, you know, I have to prove myself.

And I've always asked to be selected through merit and for no other reason, drop all the tags and labels. And I've always been strong to that fact. I

understand that there has to be a first. And I understand for there to be a first, then, you know, the culture will change and hopefully that more

opportunities will open up for others to come through. But from my perspective, all I've ever asked of the lads was to treat me the exact

same, and they certainly do that.


ASHER: The Rugby World Cup begins in Paris on September 8th. Alright, thank you so much for watching ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher. "AMANPOUR" is up next.

You're watching CNN.