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One World with Zain Asher

Boat Sinks In Greece, Kills 78 People; Ukraine Steps Up Counteroffensive To Recapture Land Held By Russian Forces; Trump Pleads Not Guilty To 37 Counts Linked To Alleged Mishandling Of Classified Documents; State Funeral Held For Silvio Berlusconi; Man Stabs Two University Students In Nottingham; Tropical Cyclone Biparjoy Makes Its Way To The Northeast; U.S. Federal Reserve, The Central Bank, Soon Will Make Latest Interest Rate Decision. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired June 14, 2023 - 12:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: I'm Julia Chatterley live from New York and this is ONE WORLD. Search crews are scouring the waters off

the coast of Greece after a fishing boat carrying hundreds of migrants sank earlier today. At least 78 people are now confirmed dead. Officials say the

boat set off from Libya bound for Italy and that no one on board was wearing a life jacket. More than a hundred people have been rescued so far

and brought to the city of Kalamata, Greece.

Let's get straight to Barbie Nadeau in Rome with the very latest. Barbie, no one wearing a life vest and also suggestions that there could have been

several hundred people aboard this vessel.

BARBIE NADEAU, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah, this is just the latest Mediterranean tragedy here. You know the central Mediterranean is the deadliest maritime

Mediterranean route in the world. More than twenty thousand people have died trying to cross usually from North Africa into Italy since 2014.

You know we're hearing reports that this particular boat could have had as many as seven hundred and fifty people. Of course, we don't know because

human smugglers don't keep passenger lists or anything of that nature. One of the things we do know from previous shipwrecks like this is so often,

people are locked in the lower levels of the ship, especially when the ship is overcrowded like this.

And the reason that is to keep the ship in balance, so that it doesn't tip over, so that it doesn't sink. So, what they don't know, and they haven't

been able to ascertain yet, is that there are people at the bottom of the sea locked in this boat. You know, the 104 people who survived were all

men. The 78 bodies that we don't know exactly, much of the demographic of those people yet.

But you can be sure that those were the people that were on the upper level of the boat. This tragedy is not going to have a happy ending, because even

those survivors, those people who have been brought to safety, a lot of them probably won't even qualify for assistance or for protection in Europe

and may very well be repatriated back to their country of origin, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yeah, and to your point, it's just the latest tragedy. Do we have any sense, and Barbie, I know it's difficult, of how deep the water is


NADEAU: No, you know, we don't. But so often the Mediterranean is thought to be this sort of, you know, calm sea. And so many people have said the

Mediterranean is really, it should be categorized as an ocean. The currents are very strong. The water is very deep in certain places and it's not a

safe sea to cross.

And so many people who get on these boats, you interview people who survive these crossings, you know, more than 55,000 people have made it to Italy so

far this year on these -- on these terribly dangerous boats. A lot of them didn't realize how long the journey was. And so often the traffickers just

assure the people who often pay thousands of dollars of their life savings to make this dangerous crossing for hope and safety.

A lot of them, you know, are told that they'll be rescued at sea, that someone will come and save them. Of course, that's not the dynamic, you

know. A lot of the countries, Italy, Malta, and Greece are on the frontline of this migration issue right now. And, you know, there are lots of NGO

rescue boats out there trying to do their work to rescue people.

But at the end of the day, Europe doesn't want them to come. And so there are negotiations going on with Libya and Tunisia from European leaders to

try to get the boats to stop. But of course, that doesn't stop the problem. That just turns it into someone else's problem. Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yeah, absolutely. And to your point about the rough conditions, no wonder perhaps that it was only men that so far have survived this.

Barbie, thank you for that report there.

Quote, the children live in constant fear, says one father in the Ukrainian port city of Odessa. After Russia fired cruise missiles from the Black Sea

overnight, destroying civilian infrastructure, at least three people were killed there.

Odessa was not the only target. Moscow launched multiple missile and drone attacks on cities across Ukraine, prompting Kyiv to call for tougher

economic sanctions to restrict the Kremlin's supply of weapons components. And another three people lost their lives in attacks in the eastern Donetsk


Elsewhere on the battlefield, Ukraine is stepping up its counteroffensive to recapture land held by Russian forces. It's claiming partial successes

in some areas. CNN's Fred Pleitgen and his crew followed Ukrainian forces on the frontlines in southeastern Ukraine. Here's his report on the fierce

fighting there and what those troops are facing.


FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ukrainian forces firing at Russian troops hold up in Blagodotnye in South



This video, the brigade says, shows the Russians making a final stand here. Much of the area near the frontlines, deeply scarred by combat.

PLEITGEN (on-camera): This is the area of Ukraine where the heaviest fighting is currently taking place. And you can see what it's done to a lot

of the buildings and the cities and villages around this area. And that fighting is set to get even worse.

We're with the 68th Jaeger Brigade, which has been making important gains here. The soldiers confident and grateful for U.S. supply gear. A lot of

the times it saved my life, he says. It saves our lives every day from shrapnel, shelling and bullets.

But some of the vehicles have already been lost and the Russians continue to fire back. Constant artillery shelling and even air strikes too close

for comfort as our crew had to duck for cover. Still, the deputy brigade commander says his soldiers are just getting started. Our counterattack

will definitely be successful, he says. We believe in victory. We are moving forward towards our goal. We are advancing.

On this part of the frontline, the Ukrainians believe they have the gear, the manpower and the determination to advance far into Russian-held

territory. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Velyka Novosilka, Ukraine.


CHATTERLEY: And Sam Kiley joins us now from the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv. Sam, good to have you with us. I want to ask you about the comments from

the U.S. Defense Department, Tuesday, that it's supplying a further 15 Bradley fighting vehicles to Ukraine. It comes, and you and I have

discussed this a number of times, just days after reports that Kyiv had lost a number of vehicles in their offensive. What more can you tell us and

how important this will be?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): Well, I think, Julie, I think this is very important for two things. The first is

battlefield replacements are necessary. They are losing and will lose more and more equipment as this counteroffensive grows in strength. And as Fred

was saying there, these are the early days of this counteroffensive and there will be more casualties, there will be more loss of vehicles, and

therefore they'll need replacing.

But also, and it's connected, is that President Zelenskyy here has been very emphatic to the international community, to his allies and donors

saying when this counteroffensive gets underway, do not forsake us. We are going to need resupply. Resupply in the form of ammunition, equipment and

ultimately the supply he's desperate for is the F-16 air cover because, and again you heard that in Fred's report, the Russians dominate the skies and

when you get down to the frontlines, that really is a very significant strategic advantage.

There's very little that ground troops can do in the face of fighting, fighter jet, fighter bombers that are bombing and striking from very safe

standoff positions well beyond the reach of most of the air defenses that are available to frontline units. So, that is a very key thing. But I think

it will be very significant in terms of morale signalling from the Russians that almost an immediate response. You've lost some Bradleys, here's some

new Bradleys. I think that will be very well-received, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, the messaging on the support here and the swift response important, too. Sam, great to have you with us. Thank you. Sam Kiley there.

Now a group of six African leaders with different takes on the war in Ukraine are headed to Moscow and Kyiv on a peace mission. South African

President Cyril Ramaphosa is leading the delegation, which also includes leaders from the Republic of Congo, Uganda, Senegal, Zambia and the African

Union. They're scheduled to meet Ukrainian President Zelenskyy on Friday and then Russian President Putin on Saturday.

Now, it's probably safe to assume Donald Trump has had better birthdays than this one. Today, he turned 77, just one day after he pleaded not

guilty to 37 counts linked to his alleged mishandling of classified documents. Trump is now the first former U.S. president to be indicted on

federal charges.

And after leaving the courthouse in Miami on Tuesday, he flew back to New Jersey and went to one of his favorite places, his golf club in Bedminster.

There he appeared before an adoring crowd and in a speech riddled with falsehoods, he insisted he did nothing wrong in taking top secret documents

with him when he left office.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Threatening me with 400 years in prison for possessing my own presidential papers, which just about every

other president has done, is one of the most outrageous and vicious legal theories ever put forward in an American court of law.


Whatever documents a president decides to take with him, he has the right to do so. It's an absolute right. This is the law.


CHATTERLEY: Let's get some perspective now from Michael Zeldin. He's Former Federal Prosecutor and the current Host of "That Said with Michael Zeldin"

Podcast. Michael, great to have you with us. This is the second indictment for the former president, though clearly the far more serious of the two,

so far. What's next? And take it from the perspective first of Trump's defense. What are they doing today?

MICHAEL ZELDIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, first and foremost, Trump has got to get himself a lawyer. He doesn't have a trial lawyer who's

licensed to practice law in Florida that knows his way around a criminal court. So, task one for him is to get a lawyer.

Then, once he has a lawyer, he has to begin to look at the various motions that are available to him. The first one I think would be to get the search

warrant and see whether or not they can attack the probable cause, the basis for the search warrant to try to get some of the evidence knocked


Then, I think because the most serious charges in this indictment are his obstruction of justice, and those come largely from the mouth of his former

lawyer. He's going to try to keep that lawyer from testifying at trial. So, he's got to get a lawyer. He's got file motions, and he's got to make sure

that his co-defendant, Walt Nauta, does not cooperate with the government, flip and give evidence against him. Those are the priorities.

CHATTERLEY: And how -- I was going to say, because that's a priority for the prosecution, too. How likely is that, the flipping that you just

mentioned there? Do you have a gut-feel based on the charges and what we're seeing?

ZELDIN: In the ordinary course, a defendant like Nauta would accept a plea deal and testify. In the ordinary course, the prosecutors would want to

offer a deal to get his testimony because he, it appears from the indictment, can say yes, Donald Trump purposefully moved documents so that

he didn't have to return them to the government.

That's devastating testimony. The problem here is that Nauta has a loyalty to Trump that is not normal. And whether they can get him to cooperate

really depends on whether when he gets a lawyer, because he doesn't have a lawyer either, his lawyer says, look, you're going to go to jail on this

thing, you're going to go to jail for five plus years. Is loyalty worth five years in jail? Then Nauta is going to have to make a hard decision.

CHATTERLEY: So, assuming, and we're talking about relatively large assumptions at this stage, we have a defense. How important is the judge in

this case? Because she is Trump-appointed, and I've seen a lot of coverage that's effectively writing her off, and I feel like that's a little bit

precipitous. Surely in some ways she addresses some of the concerns, the criticisms of this, that a judge in this case may be biased against the

former president. She's also got her own credibility, surely, to worry about in this case, too.

ZELDIN: Yeah, so the judge controls the timing of what happens in the courtroom, when it will go to trial, what motions can be filed, what

motions will be heard and agreed to. So, there's a lot that she controls as a timing matter and as a matter of the way the case proceeds. As to her,

individually, remember, she's the judge who started out with this case and made a ruling that the court of appeals above, reversed resoundingly and

really took her to the woodshed as they say for bad legal analysis.

So, some say, well you know what, she's been a judge only for two and a half years, better for her to say to the chief judge, I don't want this

case, give it to somebody who's more experienced. Others say, this case will allow her the redemption that she lost the credibility of in her first


As to your final point, I think it is absolutely correct that in some ways, having a Trump-appointed judge in this case gets rid of the argument that

the court, if you will, is biased against her. Because we'll hear everybody's a biased against Trump. And if the judge is a Trump judge,

that's an argument that doesn't have any legs.

CHATTERLEY: Yeah, it feels smart in this case. To your point about scheduling, though, whether in court or outside, we obviously have the case

in New York. We now have this indictment that we've talked about in Miami. We're surely very soon going to see something from Georgia over election

interference there. We've obviously got the Republican primaries coming up, too. How -- is it a case of judges picking up the phones, talking about

this? How are those things going to be scheduled in order not to overlap or interfere? What takes precedence?

ZELDIN: Well, it's very dicey to schedule two or three cases with a political calendar ticking as quickly as it is. I think the judges may

coordinate with one another. You've got, assuming Georgia brings charges, you'll have two state judges and a federal judge.


And I don't know that they will really say, let's go first, you go second. But rather, excuse me, they will just have to just figure out how to not

step on each other's, you know, courtroom toes, so that these cases can proceed. Trump, of course, wants these cases all to be delayed as long as

possible, hopefully for him to his thinking after the election, which he then wins and dismisses the federal charges and somehow is then immune from

prosecution because he's a sitting president.

So, there is a lot of things here that are at play and the judge has a large role to play in it. But fundamental for Trump, for him to be

successful in any way, is get himself a good lawyer.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, first and foremost.

ZELDIN: Exactly.

CHATTERLEY: Michael, great to chat to you. Thank you. Michael Zeldin there. Thank you. And thank you for managing with the croaky voice I have, as

well. I had one earlier on the show too, so it's catching.

ZELDIN: I don't know what happened to me, yeah.

CHATTERLEY: It does. Thank you, Michael.

ZELDIN: Bye-bye.

CHATTERLEY: Okay, let's move on. Italy says farewell to the man who once called himself the Jesus Christ of politics. These are pictures of the

funeral for Former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi held just a few hours ago. And a pause from the crowds in Milan as thousands turned out to say

goodbye to the controversial billionaire. He died Monday at the age of 86 after battling leukemia. Berlusconi dominated Italian culture and politics

for decades.

I want to bring in CNN's Ben Wedeman now. Ben, from what I saw, and I saw plenty of it earlier today, a beautiful ceremony for a controversial

Italian figure.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): Indeed, it was a Catholic funeral for a twice-divorced man who many Italians admired

as the embodiment of the Italian dream, so to speak. A man who came from modest middle-class background to become, at one point, the richest man in

Italy, the longest-serving prime minister since the end of World War II, but also a man who was dogged by controversy throughout his public life,

first as a businessman and entrepreneur and then as a prime minister, as a politician.

This was a man who was convicted for tax fraud, for instance, who many Italians saw as something of a national embarrassment because of his bunga

bunga parties and whatnot. But today was a day of official national mourning and a state funeral in Milan at the Duomo, the Cathedral of Milan,

a very impressive old building.

We saw that about 2000 people were inside the Duomo itself. Among the mourners was Sergio Mattarella, the President of Italy, Giorgia Meloni, the

Prime Minister, as well as Victor Orban, the Prime Minister of Hungary, and the Amir of Qatar, and the Prime Minister of Iraq. Notably missing among

the crowd were people like Tony Blair, the Former British Prime Minister, who at one point vacationed with his wife Sherry in the Sardinian Villa of

Silvio Berlusconi. Also missing was George W. Bush who was President while Silvio Berlusconi served his longest time as Prime Minister. Berlusconi was

a major supporter of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq so Bush's absence was rather significant.

Not all Italians are obviously taking part in this National Day of Mourning. In fact, one university, the Siena University for Foreigners, did

not actually lower its Italian flags to half mast because of Berlusconi's controversial and flamboyant past. Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Ben Wedeman there. Thank you. And the University of Nottingham is reeling after two of the victims from Tuesday's attacks in the city were

students there. Both pupils were 19 years old, one played field hockey and the other was on the university's cricket team. According to police, they

are the first victims of a 31-year-old man who stabbed them and then killed an older man. He then stole a van and tried to run down people at a bus


Scott McLean is following developments from London. For Scott, and the more I read about this, the more heartbreaking census tragedy of victims with so

much to live for. What more do we know about the individual that is alleged and accused of doing this?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, first a quick word on the victim, Julia, and that is that a vigil just wrapped up at the University of

Nottingham, where the two younger victims were students, and their fathers got up and actually spoke to the crowd, and it was emotional, and frankly,

it was pretty tough to watch.


One of the students and their fathers got up and actually spoke to the crowd, and it was emotional, and frankly, it was pretty tough to watch. One

of the fathers of Barnaby Weber said, I've lost my baby boy and I can't even comprehend how I'm going to deal with it. There's going to be another

citywide vigil held tomorrow as well as Nottingham really comes to grips with what happened.

Now, in terms of the suspect, 31 years old, and the possible motive, police say they are open-minded. They are working with counterterrorism police,

though they say that doesn't necessarily mean that they will rule that this was ultimately terrorism. Part of what makes this crime so unusual, Julia,

is A, the randomness of it, and B, the physical distance that was covered by this suspect and the distance between crime scenes.

So, if we can bring up a map, we'll give you a sense of things. So, the first stabbings, we understand, was on Ixton Road there. That's where the

two 19-year-old victims were found. Then on Magdala Road, the 65-year-old man was found, that's more than a mile away, all of them with stab wounds.

And then on Milton Street, which is more in central Nottingham, more of a built-up area, that is where the van, stolen van from the gentleman on

Magdala Road, tried to mow down three people. One of them is still in critical condition in the hospital. And then it was at a fourth location,

again, more than a mile away from the third, that police actually caught up with the suspect and arrested him.

We've also learned today, Julia, that there was a person matching the suspect's description that actually tried to get into a supported living

facility at some point before or during all of this but wasn't able to. That was never actually reported to police. We also know, as you said, the

names of the two victims, Grace Kumar and Barney Weber.

These are the two victims from the University of Nottingham, 19 years old, and they were both accomplished athletes. In fact, Kumar, who was studying

to become a doctor, actually played on the under 18 field hockey team for England. Her family released a statement that said in part, we were so

incredibly proud of Grace's achievements and what a truly lovely person she was. She was resilient and wise beyond her years.

Now, Barney Weber, he was a cricket player, again an accomplished one. He had just been selected for the University of Nottingham team, which his

parents said that he was over the moon about. They put out their own separate statement, which is pretty heartbreaking to read, as well. They

said in part, complete devastation is not enough to describe our pain and loss at the senseless murder of our son. He was a beautiful, brilliant,

bright young man with everything in life to look forward to. As parents, we are enormously proud of everything he achieved and all the plans he had


Now, a third person was also killed, a 65-year-old man who worked at a school, and the school also put out a statement saying that Ian Coats was

beloved, respected, and always went the extra mile for students. Again, we don't have a sense of the motivation or possible motive at this point. The

Home Secretary spoke to the British Parliament today, answered questions and she said, look, we ought not to rush to judgment on this given that

police are still on the ground, still collecting facts. Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Unimaginable loss, our thoughts and prayers with everyone involved. Scott, thank you for that. Okay, coming up. Tragedy two unfolding

in Nigeria as a boat carrying wedding guest capsizes killing dozens. What officials say led to the accident.




CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to ONE WORLD. A day of joy and celebration quickly turned to tragedy in Nigeria. A boat carrying guests from a wedding

capsized in the River Niger on Monday. More than 100 passengers are confirmed to have lost their lives. Local officials say the boat overturned

when it hit a tree trunk.

Stephanie Busari joins us now from Lagos. Stephanie, I think we need to understand it's the height of rainy season, so even just being on the

water, probably quite treacherous. How many people are we talking about might have even been on this?

STEPHANIE BUSARI, CNN SENIOR EDITOR, AFRICA: So, the picture that's emerging is still a bit unclear, but what police are telling us, Julia, is

that around 250 people packed themselves onto this boat. And just picture the scene. They've just left scenes of joy and celebrating with a couple,

their wedding. And it's about 3 a.m. in the morning.

And this is the River Niger, the largest river in West Africa. So, it was an accident waiting to happen really, Julia, if you think about it. This

number of people, about 250 people, packing themselves onto boats, which would not have been big enough to contain all of these passengers, who were

quite understandably anxious to get home at such an hour.

And as you say, the height of the rainy season, the communities flooded, and so they can't go home by bikes, which they would have normally done.

So, poor visibility also, and unfortunately the boat did hit what we're told was a tree trunk and capsized. So, you could just imagine that it

would have been very chaotic and very scary and just very dangerous.

Police did say that they managed to rescue 144 people, but 106 people have died. And the officer we've spoken to have told us that this village is so

remote that it's taken one of their officers five hours to get from the capital of Kwara just to get there to be part of the search and rescue and

to find out really what exactly happened. And those details are still emerging, Julia, and we'll bring them as we learn them.

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely. Stephanie Busari there, reporting from Lagos. Thank you. Okay, coming up here on ONE WORLD, their father became an

international hero for saving lives during Rwanda's genocide. Now, his daughters are speaking out about freeing other political prisoners. They

will be my guests when we come back.




CHATTERLEY: Hello and welcome back to ONE WORLD with a reminder of some of today's headlines. The death toll from an alleged doomsday cult in Kenya is

now more than 300, according to authorities. This, after investigators exhumed 19 more bodies from mass graves. The leader of the Christian cult,

Paul McKenzie, is accused of brainwashing his followers to starve themselves. More than 600 people are still reported missing.

And the U.N. is warning of possible atrocities in the Darfur region of Sudan. Human rights observers say the alleged ethnic attacks by armed

rebels are far worse than we saw in 2003. The U.N. calls it, quote, shocking violence against ethnic communities that could amount to war

crimes and crimes against humanity.

And tens of thousands of people are being evacuated as India and Pakistan brace for the impact of a massive cyclone. The storm has been churning in

the Arabian Sea. It's expected to make landfall near the India-Pakistan border on Thursday afternoon local time. Urban flooding is forecast for

Pakistan's largest city, Karachi, where businesses and shopping malls are shutting their doors.

Meteorologist Jennifer Gray is tracking the cyclone and joins us now from the CNN Weather Center. Jennifer, good to have you with us. Just explain

what we're likely to see and when.

JENNIFER GRAY, METEOROLOGIST: Well, this is going to be a significant storm for this part of the world. Tropical cyclone Biparjoy is steadily making

its way to the northeast. It's a very slow-moving storm. It is encountering some drier air just off the coast of Pakistan and India, so it's really

prohibiting the storm from strengthening. It's steadily weakening, but it's still a significant storm and will be a force to be reckoned with over the

next 24 to 48 hours. It's got winds of 130 kilometers per hour, gusts of 160. It's moving to the northeast at about seven kilometers per hour.

On the latest forecast track, you can say within the next 24 hours or so, it will be making landfall with potential of 100 kilometer per hour

sustained winds, gusts even higher, and then as it slowly moves on shore, we're really concerned about the flooding potential. The storm is going to

bring a lot of rainfall with it and it's also going to bring some gusty winds.

Again, we could see those winds topping around 100 kilometers per hour. Of course, that's going to be around the very center of the cyclone, and then

weaker winds will extend outward but still, very gusty winds, very high surf. We could see storm surge anywhere from two to three meters right

along the coast.

So, anybody right along the coast, I'm sure is being urged to move inland, if possible, move to higher ground. So, we're looking for very heavy rain,

the potential for torrential rain. Major flood threat here across Pakistan and India, and especially pretty far inland, as well, because you can see

the storm is going to produce anywhere from say 150 to 250 millimeters of rain well inland right along the coast, we could top 500 millimeters of

rain, so significant rainfall there and it will be pushing through Thursday into Friday and then Friday evening pushing well inland.


So, Julia, we're gonna be watching this one closely, especially for that flooding threat that comes along with the cyclone.

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely, and we'll keep people updated. Jennifer Gray, thank you. Now, from an international hero to a prisoner convicted of terrorism.

We heard this week for the first time in almost two years from Paul Rusesabagina. He rose to fame after the story of his bravery in the face of

genocide was told in the film Hotel Rwanda.

He was arrested in 2020 by Rwandan authorities and charge with terrorist activities, though human rights campaigners say the trial was a sham and

that Rusesabagina was a political prisoner facing stiff pressure from the international community, Rwanda's president commuted his sentence back in

March, allowing him to move back to the United States. And just yesterday, the Hotel Rwanda hero delivered his first public comment since his arrest

via a recorded message at the Oslo Freedom Forum. Listen in.


PAUL RUSESABAGINA, RWANDAN HUMAN RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Today, I am a free man because of your voice and many like yours. It is my pleasure and honor to

be addressing you. This time last year, I was in prison. You heard my story from my daughters, who attended the Oslo Freedom Forum. All of you came

together to advocate for my release and that of all political prisoners. And for me, you have succeeded. My freedom demonstrates that when you stand

up for what you believe in, when you come together in solidarity and are guided by the principles of human rights and democracy, you win.


CHATTERLEY: Time now for The Exchange and I'm very excited to say I'm joined by Carine and Anaise Kanimba, they are Paul Rusesabagina's

daughters, and this is their first interview since their father won his freedom. Ladies, it is a huge pleasure to have you on the show. Welcome. I

think this was a huge moment, not just for your father, not just for you and your family and friends, but also for all of those who fought for his

release. Carine, start by explaining what this moment felt like and what it means.

CARINE KANIMBA, DAUGHTER OF HOTEL RWANDA HERO PAUL RUSESABAGINA: Well, first, thank you for having us on, Julia, and thank you for sharing the

video of our father. This moment was very special for us. For two and a half years, our father had been silenced. He had been -- they had taken his

voice away and had hidden him from the public eye.

And yesterday, he got to share his public message of solidarity, of encouragement for people who are fighting for human rights, for people who

are in situations like him, and reminded everyone to continue this advocacy and to continue to speak up because that is how we can help others and free

other political prisoners.

CHATTERLEY: Yeah, and it was a very powerful message and I can see it's emotional still for you guys. And I just want to go back to the moment that

you found out that your father was going to be released and then you met him for the first time. What was that first hug like and were there times

when you feared you might never hug him or see him again?

ANAISE KANIMBA, DAUGHTER OF HOTEL RWANDA HERO PAUL RUSESABAGINA: It was a dream come true, you know, when we saw our father for the first time. We

touched him, and to make sure that it was the real person that was coming to us. But in fact, it was really interesting during our reunion is that

he's the one who consoled us, we were all crying and he told us daddy's home and that was the best, best, best line of feeling that I've had in my

life, being able to touch him and be with him again. And it's been a reunion, a second chance to life for all of us.

CHATTERLEY: Carine, you're smiling, as well. Words of support and advice from the father when you feel like perhaps you should have been consoling



CHATTERLEY: Can I ask how his health is? Because there were concerns about and reports of maltreatment while he was in prison. How is he doing now?

Because I have to say in that video, he's glowing. He looked really great.

CARINE KANIMBA: Yes, he's doing better. He's had one of the first things he did when he arrived back in the United States was to go seek medical

treatment, medical support. And he gained strength every single day. And both his mind and body are catching up and he's getting stronger. So, we're

very, very grateful to have him here alive because we didn't, at some point we thought that we might never see him again. But he's strong and he's

ready to continue to speak up for human rights.


CHATTERLEY: Yeah, and he said in his speech that was presented there, there's more work to do, which I think was the standout phrase from what he

said. And I know, that's what you guys also advocate for. And the push now is to promote, be the voice for other prisoners around the world. Carine?

CARINE KANIMBA: Yes, you know, it's a crisis happening. The fact of arbitrage detention, this is a tool that autocrats are using to stop

dissidents, to put people away, to silence activists. And it's happening all over the world. And so, it's very important that we continue this


And one of the best ways to do that is at the Oslo Freedom Forum, where we're among many other people who've been political prisoners, who are

fighting for the former people they were living with and who also are fighting for others. And so, it's really important to be able to be here

and to continue specifically with this community, because this community was key in helping our father get released.

CHATTERLEY: I noticed, and I was looking back over the history of this, part of the letter that your father wrote to the Rwandan government said

that he'll live the remainder of his life quietly, that he'll leave questions specifically about Rwandan politics behind him.

But then I sort of also listened to what he was saying in that speech again and standing up for what you believe in and that there's more work to do.

Do you think he will and that he can and that you guys specifically too can set aside what's taking place and what has taken place in your mind in

Rwanda and just let things lie or is that also still part of the fight?

CARINE KANIMBA: You know, these -- standing up for human rights is a responsibility for everyone. And we have a responsibility to speak up for

the people who are being silenced, who are being mistreated, whose rights are being violated. And we are sitting in places where we can do that. So,

I think it's everyone's responsibility to do so.

And Anaise mentioned the hostage crisis, for example, there are many families whose loved ones are arbitrarily detained or held hostages in

countries. And, for example, in the United States, we have started, along with other families, to bring our families home campaign, to bring

attention to these wrongful detentions and hostage-taking situations.

And when you know of the atrocities that people are going through, when you know the pain and the suffering of these individuals and the pain and the

suffering of families like ours, we cannot remain silent. We have a responsibility to speak and we will continue to do so.

CHATTERLEY: Yeah, and you did a TED Talk back in 2019 and I watched the whole thing and what stood out to me is you were talking about a sense of

guilt and shame that you felt as a survivor and someone that lived through something so awful. Just to the point that you're making about fighting for

others perhaps and what they've been through is part of the healing process of what you and your family have suffered going on to help others. Do you

ever really recover or is that just part of what drives you on to help others around the world?

CARINE KANIMBA: I think, yeah, it's both. I think we continue -- it drives you to continue to help others. I think we continue to heal and we continue

to experience terrible situation. You know, we thought the genocide, the Rwandan genocide was the worst thing that could happen to us. And then two

years ago, our father was kidnapped, tortured, subjected to a sham trial, and jailed.

And so, this also was another crisis. And this is something that we as a family and us as a community and all the Rwandans who were also affected by

this experience will have to heal from. And we'll continue on to this journey and we'll continue to share the lessons that we learned as we heal

and as we learn. But we are continuing forward.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and I will just for completeness mention that the Rwandan government have said that they stand by the charges and the conviction, of

course, of your father. I will just say that for balance. And I ask a final word on the work that you will continue to do, the people that you're still

fighting for and will continue to fight for. As your father said, the work's never done and there's more work to do.

ANAISE KANIMBA: Yes, there's always more work to do. And again, like I said, it's a crisis that we're living in today, this crisis of arbitrary

detention. And sadly, we have to continue facing it. And being able to help others and as Carine said, as we heal as well, and the liberation of our

father is a testament that when you commit to what you believe in, it is possible. And so, we're very blessed and grateful that we can live this

happiness, but now we want to share with others. And I think that's another driver for us in order to want to continue because we know it is possible

when you put all your mind into it.


And so, you know, we're gonna have to figure out the next chapters of our life. But one key part of this next chapter is that this advocacy in the

work of political prisoners, people who are arbitrarily trained around the world, detained around the world is gonna be a part of it.

CHATTERLEY: Yeah, I've read your CVs. You're two incredible women for what you've been through. And I have full faith in your advocacy and the work

you continue to do. Thank you once again for your time. And enjoy your father, cherish him, hold him tight. Carine and Anaise Kanimba, thank you.

We'll be right back.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to ONE WORLD. This weekend, the top U.S. diplomat will travel to China, his goal, to smooth out what has been a relatively

rocky relationship between the two nations in recent years. With issues like Taiwan, trade and the South China Sea, Antony Blinken has his work cut

up for him, that's for sure. As Kristie Lu Stout reports.


KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN ANCHOR: China's foreign minister says the U.S. should respect China's core concerns, including Taiwan. Now, this was conveyed

during a phone conversation on Wednesday between Qin Gang and America's top diplomat, Antony Blinken, ahead of Blinken's upcoming visit to Beijing this


Now, according to a foreign ministry readout, Qin said that China-U.S. relations have encountered new difficulties and challenges and that the

responsibility is clear. Now, in a statement, the foreign ministry added this, quote, it is hoped that the U.S will take practical actions to

implement the important consensus reached by the two heads of state in Bali and effectively manage differences.

The ministry also called for U.S.-China relations to, quote, stabilize and return to the track of healthy and stable development. And then on Twitter,

the U.S. Secretary of State said this, quote, spoke tonight with the PRC State Counselor and Foreign Minister, Qin Gang by phone, discussed ongoing

efforts to maintain open channels of communication, as well as bilateral and global issues.

Now, Blinken also said that they discussed open communication to, quote, avoid miscalculation and conflict. According to the U.S. State Department,

Blinken will travel to Beijing this weekend where he will meet with senior Chinese officials to, quote, discuss the importance of maintaining open

lines of communication to responsibly manage the U.S.-PRC relationship. His trip was originally scheduled for February but was postponed due to the

Chinese balloon incident.


Now, the call comes after the White House warned of growing aggressiveness by the Chinese military. Earlier this month, warships from China and the

U.S. were involved in a near collision in the Taiwan Strait. In late May, a Chinese fighter jet carried out what the U.S. military called an

unnecessarily aggressive maneuver near a U.S. military plane over the South China Sea in international air space. The U.S.-China relationship is at its

lowest point in decades over Taiwan, over trade, over sensitive technology, over territorial disputes, but engagement is taking place.

Last month, the White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan met with top Chinese official Wang Yi in Vienna for, quote, candid and

constructive talks. And in May, the CIA Director visited China in a trip that was not disclosed until early June. And earlier this month, the U.S.

Commerce Secretary and the U.S. Trade Representative, both met with the Chinese Commerce Minister and now we have today's phone call between Qin

Gang and Anthony Blinken setting the stage for Blinken's long-awaited visit to China. Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.


CHATTERLEY: And coming up here on ONE WORLD, when the U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman speaks, the world listens. He's expected to make a key decision on

interest rates very soon. More details on that right ahead.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. In around an hour's time, the U.S. Federal Reserve, the Central Bank, will make its latest interest rate decision.

It's widely expected to hold interest rates steady. That would be clearly a welcome break after 10 straight and successive rate hikes aimed at bringing

down inflation.

Matt Egan joins us now live from New York. The shocker today would be if they did anything other than stamp out. The question is, what do they say

about next month and beyond?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Hey, Julia, that's right. Ninety-eight 98 percent, that's the implied probability from the market that the Fed does absolutely

nothing at today's meeting. So, I would be shocked if the Fed ended up raising interest rates. And who cares if I'm shocked? I think more

importantly, investors would be shocked. We know that Fed officials do not like to keep -- catch the investors off guard. So, it does seem very

unlikely that they would do anything to shock investors because that could actually create financial instability.


So, yes, the thinking is that after 10 straight interest rate hikes, the Fed will keep rates steady for a few reasons. I think one, it's that

inflation has really cooled off. We learned today that wholesale inflation is running at the slowest annual rates since late 2020. That's after

yesterday's consumer price report, showed a two-year low for that inflation gauge.

The other issue, though, here is the Fed has already done a lot here. It's not just 10 straight interest rate hikes. It's the fact that they bumped up

interest rates by five whole percentage points in a short amount of time. I mean, they've really done more than many of us thought was even possible.

And so, it does make sense to take a minute, look around, see how much damage has been done and how much progress has been made.

But, Julia, to your point, the big question is, what hints does Jerome Powell drop, what hints do beneficial drop in their drop plots about what's

to come next. Could we see a rate hike in July? Might they be done at that point? I don't know, a lot of questions. Hopefully, we get some answers in

the next 90 minutes or so.

CHATTERLEY: Yeah, it's not what they do, it's what they say today. Matt Egan, thanks for that. And thank you for watching ONE WORLD. I'm Julia

Chatterley. Amanpour is up next. Stay with CNN.