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One World with Zain Asher

Trump Gives A Defiant Look On His Mug Shot; Spain's High Council Of Sport Vowed To Suspend Spanish Soccer Chief; Ukrainian Counteroffensive Shows Early Signs Of Progress; Small Memorial Pays Tribute To Mercenary Leader Yevgeny Prigozhin; ECOWAS Says There Will Be No Military Action Taken In Niger Until Its Clear Diplomacy Is Not Working; Scientists Predict The End Of Emperor Penguin; Carlos Santana Apologizes For Anti-Trans Comments. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired August 25, 2023 - 12:00   ET




ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump makes history yet again. Here is what's coming up.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: -- justice. We did nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong and everybody knows it. After being booked and

fingerprinted, Donald Trump turns his mug shot into a campaign rallying cry. And it's being called the "Me Too" of Spanish football. We've just

learned that Spanish soccer Chief Luis Rubiales will be suspended. Also ahead --


EDWARD FLANAGAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: It was, in fact, a march for jobs and freedom.

COURTLAND COX, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: We succeeded in changing this country.


ASHER: It's been 60 years since the March on Washington. Hear what it was like from the people who were there. Hello, everyone. I'm Zain Asher in New

York. And this is ONE WORLD. All right, the last of the 19 co-defendants indicted in the Georgia election interference case have now turned

themselves in. The last person to turn himself in only showed up at the Fulton County jail just last hour, just moments before the deadline.

Up next for all of them is, of course, the arraignment where they will each enter a plea. The D.A. has proposed doing that in about two weeks. Of

course, there is the man at the center of all of this, Donald Trump, who turned himself in Thursday night in Atlanta. His mugshot has now been seen,

of course, around the world. This is the first time in history that a former U.S. president has had a mugshot taken. Trump's defiant look in the

mug shot was reflected in his comments after he posted bond and then headed home.


TRUMP: What has taken place here is a travesty of justice. We did nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong. And everybody knows it.


ASHER: So, what exactly is next for Donald Trump and his co-defendants? Let's bring in CNN's Nick Valencia at the Fulton County Jail. We know that

District Attorney Fani Willis wants a trial to start in less than two months, which seems like a very aggressive timeline. Can she pull it off,


NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very aggressive timeline and we should expect a flurry of legal filings before we get to that date. It remains to

be seen, you know. Some legal analysts believe that she's calling the bluff of Kenneth Chesebro who indicated that he wanted a speedy trial and then we

saw this trial date emerge.

You know, Donald Trump has been defiant. He's been indicted four times in the last five months and after surrendering, he left the Fulton County jail

and continued to parrot that this was a political investigation, that this was an unnecessary indictment. As of the last hour, all 19 co-defendants in

this election subversion case -- a sprawling investigation which took more than two and a half years, all of them have now surrendered.

And it was just a short time ago that the attorney for the pastor based in Illinois who is accused of coming down here to intimidate election workers

-- the attorney for that man spoke to the media and, you know, quite frankly, he didn't make a lot of sense. He said that his client had woken

up this morning, expecting to be taken into custody. When asked why he waited till basically the last minute, a new deadline was set today. And

his client waited till about an hour before that deadline to turn himself in. He couldn't really answer why he waited so long.

He also said that he's never met the president. We asked him if he had regretted getting involved with the president, to which his attorney

responded that he's never met the president. He also indicated that he was down here just to knock on doors, but he couldn't explain why his client

had driven down all the way from Illinois and ended up knocking on the very election worker who was smeared by the former attorney for the president,

Rudy Giuliani.

All of these developments are happening as we're expecting a trial to be -- or I'm sorry, hearing to happen on Monday -- a federal hearing for the

former Chief of Staff for the former president, Mark Meadows. Meadows is arguing that as a federal official, he should have his criminal proceedings

moved from a state court to a federal court because his actions -- the crimes he's alleged of committing took place while he was working in

official capacity as the Chief of Staff. That hearing is scheduled for Monday.

Meanwhile, you know, Trump, part of his bond agreement says not to tweet really as any intimidation against any of these witnesses in the case. He

really towed the line in criticizing and not naming the district attorney by name, but he was critical of this investigation when he posted on Truth

Social yesterday before coming down here.


We will of course be monitoring anything more he has to say in the coming days. Zain.

ASHER: All right, Nick Valencia, live for us there. Thank you so much. And Spain's High Council of Sport has vowed to suspend the Spanish soccer chief

who gave an unwanted kiss on the lips to a star player after they won the Women's World Cup. That message comes just hours after Luis Rubiales dug in

his heels, refusing to resign. It's been a week of fierce criticism and a lot of controversy, of course, over his conduct. Rubiales describes the

kiss as mutual and says he's going to be fighting to the end.

CNN's World Sports Patrick Snell, joins us live now from Atlanta. I mean, the fact is, the tide of public opinion, actually around the world, I was

going to say in Spain, but really around the world is actually against him. How much longer can he actually hold on for, do you think, Patrick?

PATRICK SNELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Well, if you believe all the accounts and our latest reporting, Zayn, as you've just intimated, this is very much now

the hours you would think we will see. The last hours, we are going to be following this such a fast-moving developing story. We're tracking it every

step of the way but that highlight what you've just mentioned there, that highly significant development is perhaps now what is going to lead to a

very, very, very fast chain of events over maybe two or three days. We shall see.

Nothing happens that quickly, I will say, in Spain, but this is this is highly significant. I want to say off the top here, Zain. This is all

overshadowing completely, La Seleccion Roja's amazing World Cup final triumph, their first ever World Cup final triumph. But let's get to the

developments from this Friday. Victor Francois, he's Spain's Secretary of State for Sport, the President of the High Council of Sport over there. In

that presscon, a short while ago, saying they will suspend Rubiales while starting the process to attempt to remove him. This is just into us, this

sound actually, so let's hear now from Francois.


VIKTOR FRANCOIS, PRESIDENT, SPAIN'S HIGH COUNCIL OF SPORT (through translator): The government starts the processes today so that Mr.

Rubiales will have to explain himself to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. And we announce as well that if that court sees it as we see it, and

if the CSD is in position to do so, I'm announcing today that we will suspend Mr. Rubiales from his position of president of the federation.

I believe that we are in a position to call this the "Me Too" of Spanish football and that this is a change.

SNELL: The "Me Too" Spanish football -- very powerful words, indeed. An important we do hear from Rubiales himself, who's in really defiant mood.

He says that kiss during the World Cup Trophy celebration was what he called mutual. Despite the player in question, Jenny Hermoso saying she

didn't like it and didn't expect it. Rubiales speaking earlier at an extraordinary General Assembly saying he's going to fight to the end,

calling what was happening to him unjust campaigns and fake feminism. Take a listen.


LUIS RUBIALES, SPANISH FOOTBALL PRESIDENT (through translator): It was spontaneous, mutual, euphoric, and with consent, which is the key. This is

the key to all the criticism of all the campaign which has been mounted in this country that it was without consent. No, it was with consent.

I said, a small peck, and she said, okay. Then the peck happened during all of the celebration with her patting me on the side a few times, and then

excusing herself with one more hand on the side and going off laughing. That's the whole sequence that the whole world understood, that the whole

world thought was an anecdote. And above all, she says was an anecdote and nothing more.


SNELL: Rubiales got multiple rounds of applause during his speech and a standing ovation at the end from some in attendance, including some women.

So, you can read into that, Zain, what you will. But so many have continued to speak out calling for Rubiales to go.

Jenny Hermoso's teammate, two-time Ballon d'Or winner Alexia Putellas, is tweeting, "This is unacceptable. It's over. I'm with you, teammate." And on

the men's side of the game, the Spanish footballer, Hector Bellerin, posting on Instagram, "It's a genuine embarrassment, what's happening." He

went on to say, "the narcissist thinks he's made a mistake. He's capable of lying, manipulating the truth and converting the victim into the

perpetrator with the aim of maintaining his power over others."

Those words there, Zain, from Hector Bellerin, really, really strong. But this is a fast-moving one and we're tracking it every step of the way. Hour

by hour now seemingly new developments and fresh twists will stay across it all.

ASHER: All right, Patrick Snell, now live for us. Thank you so much. All right.


ASHER: All right, to the battlefield in Ukraine now, where there are early signs of progress in the Ukrainian counteroffensive. It appears Ukrainian

forces have penetrated Russian defenses along the part of the southern frontline in the Zaporizhzhia region. Both sides report intense fighting

around the village of Robotin, which Ukraine says it secured earlier this week. I

ASHER: It comes as Kyiv steps up its attacks on Russian-occupied Crimea. Ukrainian officials and Russian bloggers both reporting drone strikes on

Crimea, Friday morning, have caused some damage. The Ukrainian mayor of Melitopol claims some explosions took place at a military base.

It could be a while before Russia releases any information on the plane crash that presumably killed Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin outside of

Moscow on Wednesday. President Vladimir Putin says the criminal investigation will be thorough, but it will, quote, take some time. The

Kremlin says genetic testing is underway to determine whether Prigozhin was killed as it denies any culpability in the crash. Earlier I spoke with

Kremlin critic Bill Browder about just how much of what Russia says should be taken at face value.


BILL BROWDER, CEO and CO-FOUNDER OF HERMITAGE CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: Everything that the Kremlin says, you should assume is a lie. But the fact

of the matter is that, you know, he's not emerged. I mean, I would say there's probably a 95 percent chance he's dead, but there's a five percent

chance that he's going to pop up somewhere and thumb his nose at Putin and say, okay, I'm coming to get you. Bu, you know, we're in the world of total

craziness here and conspiracy theory. And so, who knows?

ASHER: And just in terms of how this is playing out in the Russian media, I mean, how is, I mean, Vladimir Putin came out yesterday offering

condolences to Prigozhin's family, saying, you know, I think we could actually read into some of the words that Putin used. He said that

Prigozhin was a talented man, but he made very serious mistakes. How is all of this playing out in Russian media?

BROWDER: Well, I mean, this is just typical mafia talk, the way he does it. You know, he kills Prigozhin and then it -- says condolences to his

family. I mean, it's just this is like Godfather mafia stuff. And the words that he says are just so sort of with double entendre, you know, saying he

was a very effective man, but he made mistakes and so on. It's just all Putin speak, mafia speak. This is how he does stuff.

And this is what Putin wants everybody to know is that on one hand, they deny having any involvement in his killing, which they announced today

through Putin's press spokesperson, Peskov. And on the other hand, Putin wants to look everybody else in the eye and say, this is what happens to



ASHER: That was Bill Browder, CEO and Co-Founder of Hermitage Capital Management, speaking to me earlier. A small memorial paying tribute to

mercenary leader Yevgeny Prigozhin has been set up outside the Wagner Group's headquarters in St. Petersburg. CNN's Matthew Chance has more on

the reaction to Prigozhin's presumed death.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look at this makeshift memorial that's sprung up here in St. Petersburg, which is of

course where Prigozhin was from. It's actually outside the building, which is the headquarters of the Wagner organization. And people are streaming

through, laying sort of flowers like this, putting photographs of Prigozhin.

There's one there, it says in Russian, it says, in this hell, he was the best. And so, people talking about him of course very much in the past

tense. Over here if we look -- Wagner arm patches, Wagner chevrons here that have been put all over the place. You're seeing a lot of people,

family members of people who are in Wagner, Wagner soldiers themselves coming here to pay their respects.

This woman here, I don't know whether she speaks English or not, she speaks English. She's not, she's not, we don't want to speak to her, so it's not a

very, obviously it's quite a solemn situation. There's another photograph of Prigozhin over there. This is very interesting because somebody here,

look, has put this really heavy, really heavy sledgehammer here with Wagner written on it.

The sledgehammer, of course, a potent symbol of the extreme violence that Wagner represented and its discipline because it was with a sledgehammer

like that someone they regarded as a traitor was brutally executed with on camera and it really kind of like bolstered this reputation that Wagner had

as being this completely ruthless organization that did whatever it felt it had to fight for Russia.


And so, you're seeing a whole stream of people. And there's someone doing it right here, look, a whole stream of people that are coming out now,

paying their respects to Yevgeny Prigozhin, a man who was, you know, I think, for lots of Russians, he said a lot of things about the incompetence

of the Russian military that many people in Russia agreed with. And so, one of the big questions right now is - come, come a bit closer. One of the big

questions right now is, to what extent his death, when he's confirmed to be dead, will actually bolster his reputation? Or whether this will end up to

be a forgotten chapter in Russia's recent turbulent history? And so that's a question we don't know the answer to yet.


ASHER: One of the big questions that now remains is that if Yevgeny Prokosyan is dead, what will happen to the Wagner Group, especially in

Africa, where it is particularly active? CNN's Larry Madowo joins us live now from Johannesburg. I mean, the fact is, Larry, you and I were talking

about this yesterday, there are several sort of African client states of the Wagner Group. Part of the Wagner Group's role across the continent was

to prop up several autocrats. Are they in a much more precarious position if Yevgeny Prigozhin is no longer at the helm?

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One of the speculations here, Zain, is that the Russian state could take over the operations of the Wagner Group

across Africa. There's still a lot we don't know, but one meeting is instructive here. Just a day before this plane crash in Moscow, where

Yevgeny Prigozhin is believed to have died, a Russian military delegation went to the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi and met with the Libyan

National Army there. This military delegation was led by the Russian deputy defense minister. And Reuters is citing a source, a Libyan official

familiar with this meeting, saying,

that the deputy defense minister of Russia told the Libyan National Army that Wagner fighters there would be reporting to a new commander. Now, CNN

cannot independently verify this. We've reached out to two spokespeople of the Libyan National Army. But this is important because Russia has always

denied that it has any official military presence in Libya.

This meeting took place with the self-staffed leader of the Libyan National Army, Khalifa Haftar, and we know from our reporting that the Wagner group

has carried out flights -- cargo flights, to Eastern Libya to resupply the troops there. So, this is a very interesting meeting happening again just a

day before this plane crash, where Yevgeny Prigozhin is believed to have died.

So, the Russian Defense Ministry official statement said that the defense minister, deputy, talked about he had technical meetings and also talked

about the resupply of Russian weapons and equipment. So, it's very interesting that they appear to be moving into, at least in this Libya, a

situation where they've always denied that they're officially there.

But this is just one country. There are lots of other places where Wagner has been operating. In fact, the video that we've been showing shows that

one open source intelligence company says that was likely in Mali, where Yevgeny Prigozhin recorded this last video talking about justice and

happiness for the African people, and he was keen on making sure that ISIS and al-Qaeda have a hard time in Africa but it's operating in Sudan, in

Central African Republic -- have been active before in Mozambique.

So, it's a huge operation here, highly profitable. These are countries with vast natural resources where Wagner has been profiting from those natural

resources where it has thousands of fighters on the African continent. So still, a lot of questions, Zain about what happens and if Russia is making

a move for these operations, maybe under a different name, under a different command.

ASHER: Yeah, because Africa was hugely important to the Wagner groups' wealth, just in terms of what they were getting from Africa, whether it's

cash, whether it's natural resources. So, I'm sure Russia would be keen to take that over. Larry Madowo, life for us there. Thank you so much.

All right, coming up, Donald Trump's presidential campaign is cashing in on his historic mug shot, already selling T-shirts and other merchandise,

featuring his booking photo. We'll take a closer look at that approach. And later on this hour, a fascinating legal perspective on what rap star Young

Thug and Donald Trump have in common.




ASHER: Polls show Donald Trump remains the favorite to win the Republican nomination for the 2024 U.S. presidential election. And now he has a mug

shot that's likely to add rocket fuel to his campaign for the White House among supporters. On Thursday, he surrendered at the Fulton County jail on

more than a dozen charges stemming from his efforts to reverse Georgia's 2020 election results.

He was fingerprinted. He received a mug shot and then released on bond. He wasted no time promoting his mug shot on his social -- Truth Social

website. He also posted it on X, formerly known as Twiiter, mocking his return to that platform after he was banned following the January 6

insurrection. And his presidential campaign is now selling T-shirts, coffee cups and other merchandise featuring his booking photo. Many of them with

the slogan "Never Surrender".

For more on this, let's turn to turn to Larry Sabato, Political Scientist and Director at the University of Virginia Center for Politics. Larry,

thank you so much for being with us. You know, we knew that Donald Trump was going to try to capitalize on these indictments, framing them as

politically motivated, but just the fact that he's really run with this mugshot, almost using it as some kind of trophy, does that surprise you in

any way, or should we have all just expected this?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Well, this proves for all time that there really isn't anything such as bad

publicity if you use the bad publicity the right way. And that's what he's trying to do. He doesn't have a choice. He's been indicted four times with

91 separate counts.

But for his supporters, and Trump knew this long ago, for his supporters, these are just additional proofs that the establishment is out to get him,

that the Democratic White House and the Democratic Justice Department are persecuting him. And whether he really believes that or not, his followers

certainly do. And it makes them even more determined to support him, more determined to give him money, more determined to buy his merchandise. It

seems incredible and absurd, but it is true.

ASHER: I mean, but this idea among other Republicans who are in the race that hopefully one day Trump's going to fall on his sword and we can all

sort of jump in, or one of us can jump in and emerge as the nominee, that seems like a long shot at this point. You know, it sort of seems as though,

listen, if they criticize him, they're not going to do well. They can't sort of inherit Trump supporters. But if they don't criticize him, they're

not going to do well anyway. So, doesn't it make more sense to at least give it all you've got and at least try to go after your main contender?

SABATO: Of course, that's what they should be doing. And to his credit, Chris Christie and one or two others have tried to do that. And you see the

results. Wherever they go, Republican activists boo them.


They're certainly not going to vote for candidates they boo. You know, I've tried to understand.

ASHER: They're not going to vote for them anyway. They're not going to vote for them anyway.

SABATO: Yeah. That's exactly right. And I've tried to understand the psychology here. And I honestly think for many of those, quote, opponents

of Trump who are running against him, but aren't really running against him, they're actually thinking about which cabinet position will I get?

Will this set me up to run in 2028 when Trump, even if he's elected, can't run for a third term? At least they think he can't run for a third term.

I think that is going through their minds and they just don't want to put up with the static they would get if they attacked Trump. It is foolish. I

mean, if you run against somebody, you have to run against them.

ASHER: Right. You don't support your opponent as you're trying to run against them, anyway. Larry, I wanted to ask you so many other questions,

but I am being told by my producers that we are out of time. But thank you so much. I hope to have you on the program again. I'm sure there's going to

be so much more to talk about in the coming days. Larry Sabato, thank you so much.

All right, still to come. As the U.S. gets ready to commemorate a historic civil rights march, one activist who is there says the fight for equality

is not yet over.


UNKNOWN: We are still -- while in a much better place than we were in '63, not in the place where one would expect 60 years on.




ASHER: Hello and welcome back to ONE WORLD. Let's take a look at the headlines. There will be no military action taken in Niger until its clear

diplomacy is not working. That's the word from ECOWAS, the Economic Community of West African States. Last week, one of the bloc's

commissioners said a D-Day has been set for military intervention by standby forces. Niger's government was overthrown by a military junta a

month ago.

A Russian military delegation went to the Libyan city of Benghazi this week. It met with the Libyan National Army, which has been supported by the

Wagner Mercenary Group for several years. Russia says the visit aimed at discussing joint action, like cooperation in the field of combating

international terrorism. The visit comes amid new speculation over the future of Wagner's operations in Africa.

Meantime, in Greece, firefighters are still struggling to fight multiple wildfires right now that have killed at least 20 people, so far, this week.

Greek police have made 79 arson-related arrests. As the fires rage on, officials say more than 200 wildfires have broken out across Greece since


And on Monday, the U.S. marks 60 years since the civil rights march on Washington. The march was pivotal in helping push new laws, including the

Civil Rights Act of 1964, which outlawed overt racial discrimination. CNN's Jason Carroll spoke to two activists who attended that historic march.


JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a call for economic and racial equality, a call to action that brought more than

200,000 people to the National Mall in Washington, D.C. on August 28th, 60 years ago. A day best remembered for Martin Luther King Jr.'s historic "I

Have A Dream" speech.

MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR., CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER: Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy.

CARROLL (voice-over): Among the hundreds of thousands, two young activists who were filled with hope.

COX: I was all the way in the top.

CARROLL: All the way in the top, over to the left?

COX: Yeah, over to the left.

CARROLL (voice-over): Cortland Cox is now 82, but 60 years ago he was a 22-year-old working for the civil rights organization SNCC, the Student

Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.

FLANAGAN: And what I remember is the platform is there in the Met Center.

CARROLL: Edward Flanagan was there, too. Where were you? Do you remember?

FLANAGAN: I was sitting on the wall up top there by the entertainers.

CARROLL: Flanagan is 80 now, but on the day of the march, he was a 20- year-old who had just finished his shift as a waiter. Like scores of others, he wanted to take a stand for civil rights.

FLANAGAN: I was very close to Joan Baez. Okay, I was able to notice she was barefoot. And I had on a new pair of shoes.

CARROLL: She was barefoot.

FLANAGAN: She was barefoot.

CARROLL: A march, six decades ago now seen through the eyes of two different men who shared the same goal many did that day.

FLANAGAN: It was in fact a march for jobs and freedom.

COX: Our thought to today is that we succeeded in changing this country.

CARROLL: As a young organizer Cox was responsible for arranging safe transportation for people making the trek from the south to Washington D.C.

He says there were challenges from top to bottom. Much had to be done in very little time.

The challenge from the bottom was the logistics of getting people here. Over a period I'm trying to get trailways, buses, I'm trying to get

Greyhound buses and the drivers are saying look, it's dangerous bringing people to the south. The challenge from the top was the Kennedy

administration was opposed to John Lewis' speech.

Cox worked alongside then 23-year old civil rights activist John Lewis who was the chairman of SNCC. This picture shows the two men as they rewrote

the speech to tone it down, to make it less critical of the Kennedy administration's Civil Rights Bill, which they felt didn't go far enough to

protect people from police brutality.

COX: John Lewis, Jim Foreman, and myself were in the back of the Lincoln Memorial, re-changing John Lewis' speech to make sure that while it was

critical, it was not negative.

CARROLL: That had to have been an incredible moment. Oh yeah, but what was more incredible to me is that John got up after all of that controversy and

delivered a fantastic speech.

JOHN LEWIS, FUTURE U.S. CONGRESSMAN: It is true that we support the administration of Civil Rights Bill. We support it with great reservation


FLANAGAN'S DAUGHTERS: I've never been here before. You've never been here? I've never been here before.

CARROLL: This week, Flanagan brought his daughters back to the place history was made. He'll be back again Saturday.

COX: That's the site where the entertainers were.

CARROLL: Cox prefers to stay away this time saying his marching days are behind him. Both agree while much was accomplished that day, the work is

not over.


FLANAGAN: We are still -- while in a much better place than we were in '63, not in the place where one would expect 60 years on.

COX: We succeeded in doing a number of things by what we did in the past but we also know that we have to do much more for the future.

CARROLL: Jason Carroll, CNN, Washington.


ASHER: And there are still so many miles to go in the march towards equality here in the United States. Black history has been coming under

attack across the country with mostly Republican political leaders proposing policies that put restrictions on teaching lessons about race and

racism. Black authors, even Nobel Prize-winning ones such as Toni Morrison, have been banned from certain classrooms.

A music video for a controversial Jason Aldean song that included images of Black Lives Matter protesters and had threatening lyrics went to the top of

the charts. The video was later edited to remove images of the demonstrations.

And the term woke is being invoked more and more with several politicians vowing to take down woke culture. Here's Florida governor and current

presidential candidate, Ron DeSantis.


RON DESANTIS, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe that the woke ideology represents a war on truth itself. And so as president, we will wage a war

on the woke. We will fight the woke in the schools. We will fight the woke in the corporations. We will fight the woke in the halls of Congress. We

will never, ever surrender to the woke mob. We are going to leave woke ideology in the dustbin of history where it belongs.


ASHER: Time now for The Exchange. Joining me live now is Bryan Stevenson, the Founder and Executive Director of the Equal Justice Initiative. He's

gained national acclaim for his work, challenging bias against minorities and the poor in the criminal justice system. In fact, the movie, "Just

Mercy", is of course based on Stevenson's book about one of his first clients.

Bryan, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for joining us today. I'm a huge fan of yours. And I love the fact that you've used your life to

really be of service. And you're certainly someone that I look up to personally. So, when you look at the footage from the march on Washington

back in 1963, it's so hard not to get emotional.

But when you think about where we are, I mean, looking at this political race, you have people like Ron DeSantis coming out and saying, you know, we

are declaring war on woke ideology. We're never going to surrender. It belongs in the dustbins of history. What goes through your mind? And would

you have anticipated 60 years on from that march that this is where we'd be?

BRYAN STEVENSON, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, EQUAL JUSTICE INITIATIVE: Yeah, well, thank you. I mean, it's like an echo to me. I mean, because

what we have to remember about the March on Washington is that four months before Dr. King gave that extraordinary speech, he was in a jail in

Birmingham because he had been arrested for his activism. That's where he wrote the famous letter from a Birmingham jail.

Two months before he went to Washington, D.C., George Wallace stood at the front of the University of Alabama, blocking Black students from entering

there despite the clear law that allowed them to attend that university. Less than a month after the march on Washington, four girls were murdered

at 16th Street Baptist Church.

So, the thing that's so extraordinary about the march and about Dr. King's remarks is that they were rooted in a vision and a hope and a belief that

we could get past all of this intense resistance to equality, this historical resistance to equality. And that speech was really directed at

all of America, particularly white Americans who have not been engaged in confronting the legacy of slavery. And it was effective.

You know, the Civil Rights Act is passed. The Voting Rights Act is passed. I was a little boy. I started my education at a colored school. As a result

of that activism, they opened up the public schools so I could attend. I got to go to high school. There were no high schools for black kids in my

county when my dad was a teenager. I got to go to college. I got to go to law school. But for the activism of Dr. King and all of those marchers in

'63, I wouldn't be here talking to you today.

But I think we make a mistake in believing that you can change the law and that's going to end racial bigotry. And when I hear Governor DeSantis

saying what he's saying, I'm reminded of all of the resistance that surrounded Dr. King. It's that same kind of unwillingness to confront our

history and confront the legacy of that history. And I think -- I appreciate you giving that clip because it's so frustrating to hear people

using terms like woke with no appreciation, you know, of the history.

ASHER: Right.

STEVENSON: There was a black man named Thomas Sims in Boston who after the fugitive slave walls were passed in 1850, was abducted, sent back to



There was something called the Vigilance Committee of Boston that started putting up posters telling formerly enslaved people, emancipated black

people, you need to be awake, you need to be alert because they will send you back to the South. That's what the Fugitive Slave Laws did. And that

concept of wokeness was directed to the black community to be alert.

After reconstruction, after emancipation, when black people had the right to vote, 80 percent of the eligible voters registered. And then white mob

violence began to intimidate and threaten them. And so the word went out, you gotta be careful. Can't go and register, you can't vote without threat.

For decades, thousands of black people were lynched by white mobs. They were pulled out of their homes, beaten, tortured, drowned. And that same

message was given to the African-American community. Be alert, mobs are on the move. And Wilkins was rooted in an idea that to survive, to be safe,

you have to understand things that other people don't understand.

And even after integration, integration created opportunities for black people, but it also created perils. So, I was taught that I can't do the

same things that my white peers do. Because of this bigotry and hostility, I have to be awake to do these changes.

ASHER: And I love that you have really sort of shown, I guess, you know, the ignorance in terms of throwing around that word, woke, without knowing

the history behind it. Because we are running out of time, I do want to ask you a couple more questions.


ASHER: Just in terms of, you know, African American history being under attack, obviously we played the sound bite from Ron DeSantis, so we'll talk

about Florida, DEI programs being defunded, that sort of thing. When you think about the history and the retelling of our history being under

attack, I mean, the fact is, I would not have a job like this in America if it wasn't for people like Martin Luther King. And I understand that. And

so, I have a deep sense of gratitude towards him for that.

When you think about the fact that the telling of our history is under attack in this way, what do we lose as a society if our history is filtered

and watered down? And if, you know, we start sort of censoring the parts of our history that don't really make everybody in our society feel good?

STEVENSON: Yeah, I think we risk making the mistakes of the past over and over again. That white mob violence that resulted in thousands of black

people being lynched fundamentally undermine our commitment to the rule of law. We tolerated that kind of destruction for decades. It compromised our

standing in the world. We're becoming tolerant of violence again. We're being tolerant of bigotry again. And that leads to division. It leads to a

lack of progress. It leads to an unhealthy society.

I still think we're not yet fully free because we've got these contaminants in the air created by that history. So, we all have something to lose if we

give into this unwillingness to commit to truth telling. You know, in the healthcare context, nobody wants to be told that they have lung cancer or

high blood pressure or diabetes.

But if doctors don't tell you the truth about these conditions, you die. If they tell you the truth, you'll actually accept treatment and care and

hardwork that has to happen to get better. And I think that's true when it comes to recovering from historical wrong and injuries. We have been

injured by 400 years of racial injustice, by slavery, by lynching, by segregation.

They created injuries, not just to African-Americans and people of color, but to everybody because we became comfortable with these gross violations

of basic human rights. And to recover from that, we have to understand what's wrong, what the harm has been, and then we have to commit to repair

and restoration and reconciliation.

And not only should we not fear that it's a beautiful thing. I mean, I still think there's something better waiting for us in America. There's

something that still feels more like freedom, more like equality, more like liberty than we have yet to discover. But we can't get there for unwilling

to be truthful about our past.

ASHER: Yeah, I love what you say about honesty. I mean, you know, we have to be honest. Does America owe something to the people that it wants

enslaved? Bryan Stevenson, live for us. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so grateful. Enjoy your weekend.

STEVENSON: Thank you.

ASHER: We'll be right back with more.




ASHER: A terrifying new report has scientists predicting the end of the emperor penguin. The study says the vast majority of emperor penguins

colonies lost all their chicks last year due to deteriorating sea ice which breaks down and drowns -- drowns the baby penguins. Eighty percent of the

Antarctic colonies studied by scientists suffered what is called total reproductive failure, meaning that no chicks survived. Unless things

change, scientists say that emperor penguins could be functionally extinct by the end of the century.

For more on this, I want to bring CNN's Bill Weir in New York. Bill, this is absolutely heartbreaking. I mean, just walk us through what's happened

here. Essentially, the ice is melting and the chicks belonging to these emperor penguins are drowning at a rapid pace. Walk us through it.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, exactly. The emperors are the biggest, the most charismatic. March of the Penguin Stars, the one

the Academy Awards and a lot of our hearts. This particular species is really suffering. They are the canaries in the coal mine, essentially, of

our airs of fossil fuel. And because they hatch their chicks that need a certain amount of time on that sea ice to develop their thick feathers to

survive in the ocean over the winter, they're not getting that time.

I was in Antarctica in February. I saw a similar situation with Gentoo penguins, a smaller species, and they nest on rock. They need bare rock,

but they're getting freak snowstorms that was drowning their nests. But that species is adapting. They're moving. They're nesting in different

spots, whereas the emperors haven't had that time yet right now. But this is a real indication, sort of a warning to all species, including us, that

it's time to adapt or die. And you've got to make it quick.

This is staggering to ecologists who've studied these, saying in the course of one career, to see entire colonies collapse like this, we never could

have imagined it. But just one more indication of this changing planet and the heat waves that we're seeing around the world often exist at the bottom

of the world as well and these little adorable creatures are trying to warn us.

ASHER: So then, I mean just in terms of any good news here, do we have enough time to actually turn things around? I mean they might be extinct,

they could be functioning extinct by the end of the century, that gives us essentially about 75 years. Can we change things for them?

WEIR: I'm sad to say, Zain, that a lot of this warming is already baked into the system. Even if the world stopped burning fossil fuels somehow

immediately, magically, which we know isn't going to happen, the physics that are built in, that ice is not going to refreeze anytime soon. So, as

the sea ice goes away beneath their nest, it is also taking away the krill, which is their main food source. Krill, the little crustaceans, need sea

ice to breed, and so their food base is collapsing, their nesting sites are collapsing and this is happening around the world.

Look, there are 183 countries now in Vancouver meeting and pledging billions of dollars to try to save a million species that are in danger

right now. In island nations, in the Amazon, so much harder in Antarctica, where there's no real infrastructure and no way to save a species that

lives on that ice right there. So this just sadly may be a victim of our choices and hopefully a warning to save whatever else we can by stopping

with the burning.

ASHER: Gosh, by stopping what we're doing, which as you point out, isn't going to happen magically overnight. But one of the most depressing,

heartbreaking stories. Bill Weir, live for us. Thank you so much. You're watching CNN. We'll have much more news after the break.





ASHER: Musician Carlos Santana is apologizing for anti-trans comments he made during a July concert in New Jersey. Those remarks recently resurfaced

on social media. In the clip, the guitarist is saying, quote, a woman is a woman and a man is a man. That's it.


ASHER: Thursday, Santana responded to critics with a statement posted on his Facebook page where he wrote, quote, I am very sorry for my insensitive

comments. He said his personal goal is to honor and respect all persons' ideals and beliefs whether they are LGBTQ or not.

And speaking of entertainers, what does rap star Young Thug have in common with former president Donald Trump? On the surface, not much. But they're

actually both being prosecuted in Fulton County, Georgia by Fannie Willis on racketeering charges. And as CNN's Tom Foreman reports, Young Thug's

case could provide clues on how Trump's case in Georgia might play out.


TOM FOREMAN, CNN ANCHOR AND REPORTER: On stage, Young Thug is a rap superstar. On the streets of Atlanta, prosecutors say he is a gang leader,

indicted along with many associates and allegedly tied to a raft of crimes.

FANI WILLIS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, FULTON COUNTY: Crimes of violence, crimes of thefts, crimes involving drugs.

FORMEN: And the person pushing that case is Fani Willis, the same district attorney who indicted Donald Trump.

WILLIS: My number one focus is targeting gangs.

FOREMAN: Surprisingly, the rapper's case could provide clues about how the former president's case might proceed. Both were filed under racketeering

laws typically used to fight organized crime, both indictments listed a range of crimes and lots of defendants, although young thugs case through

plea deals and other developments is now down to fewer than a dozen.

And both involve well-known public figures who have pleaded not guilty and whose cases have grabbed headlines with Trump lashing out at this

prosecutor just as he has others.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I didn't do anything wrong. I did nothing wrong.

FOREMAN: With such claims so easily flooding headlines the process of selecting an impartial jury is complicated.


Young Thug's case was filed in May 2022 and jury selection has been underway since January of this year. Former U.S. Attorney Michael Moore --

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: So, if it has taken eight months to pick a jury in the Young Thug case, I have no belief that you could do it

quicker than that in the Trump case.

FOREMAN: Indeed, he says, considering all the defendants, all the lawyers, and all the legal wrangling in Young Thug's case, it is impossible to

imagine the politically explosive case of the former president moving any smoother or quicker.

MOORE (voice-over): It's a resource drain. It's a time drain. That's one reason I suggest there'll be no possibility of trying that case next year.

MOORE (on-camera): And of course, all of that can push it ever deeper into the 2024 presidential race, where all of the political and legal questions

just get worse. Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.


ASHER: And thank you so much for watching ONE WORLD. I am Zain Asher. "AMANPOUR" is up next. You're watching CNN.