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One World with Zain Asher

More Than 300 Foreign Nationals Make It Out Of Gaza; Kiryat Shemona In Northern Israel Fired With 12 Rockets; Russia Continues To Pound Targets In Ukraine As Fighting Rages On. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired November 02, 2023 - 12:00   ET




BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Safe passage. After three weeks, desperately waiting in limbo, civilians are making their way through the Rafah crossing

for a second straight day.

ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: ONE WORLD starts right now. Foreign nationals making their way to safety. More than 300 have made it out of Gaza. Today,

we will have the very latest for you in just a moment.

GOLODRYGA: And more on the Gaza offensive. Israel says its forces have Gaza city surrounded.

ASHER: And this next piece of news may or may not shock you. There is yet another stalemate on Capitol Hill. We will ask a Congressman what the

holdup is.

GOLODRYGA: Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. This is ONE WORLD. All right. A desperate escape, an Egyptian official tells CNN that the Rafah border crossing is

now closed.

It is now 6:00 in the evening there, but earlier, more than 340 foreign nationals were allowed to cross over into Egypt from war-torn Gaza. We are

learning also that up to 25 Americans were part of that group.

GOLODRYGA: As you can see, ambulances were lined up preparing to take the wounded to hospitals. Egypt says it will ultimately allow 7000 foreign

citizens to cross over from Gaza through the Rafah checkpoint.


GOLODRYGA: And this is what they'll be leaving behind. A relentless Israeli aerial and ground assault that continues to intensify. Israel

claims it's making military progress, and that Hamas' defensive lines are collapsing. And the IDF says its forces are now in very significant areas

of Gaza City.

ASHER: Meantime, an American doctor who managed to get out of Gaza on Wednesday said that the Israeli attacks are everywhere and that the attacks

are constant. She spoke to CNN about the desperation and the chaos she left behind.


BARBARA ZIND, AMERICAN-RELEASED FROM GAZA: There is really no safe place for Gazan people. If you live in Gaza, there really is no alternative than

to stay.

I just think I would be so terrified to be here with my family without being able to leave and really with so few alternatives -- no electricity,

no water. I mean, they're really -- it's just awful for the people who live here.


ASHER: CNN's Salma Abdelaziz joins us now from London. So, Salma, we just had a snippet there from the American doctor, just talking about the level

of trauma, right? The level of trauma that Palestinians, in fact, also foreign nationals that are in Gaza are experiencing right now.

In addition to the refugee camp that was hit twice this week, we are also hearing from the U.N. that Israeli strikes have killed at least 20 people

that were sheltering in schools. What more can you tell us, Salma?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, we are just getting this information, just about an hour ago. The UNRWA Chief Commissioner General

spoke to our Christiane Amanpour telling her that he received very worrying news that three UNRWA shelters -- so, these are U.N. schools that are being

used to house displaced people.

Three schools totaling 20,000 displaced people, all three of these schools caught in the crossfire, caught in the aftermath of airstrikes. At least 20

people killed so far, again, according to the United Nations. And this is what is so worrying. This is what is so terrifying.

You play it in the open there -- Israeli troops, as they advance towards Gaza City -- as they close in on that population center, many rights

groups, many aid agencies and many Gazans most importantly are concerned about what their fate will be.

They've already been cut off from food, they've already been cut off from water. They're already near constantly getting airstrikes, getting rained

on from the sky. What happens when Israeli troops do enter Gaza City? What is the fate of those hundreds of thousands of people inside? What happens

to the families that have nowhere safe to go.

We are seeing images out of these shelters again today that were struck. I mean, these are places that should be safe, that should be protected under

international law. We received footage of people just leaving with blankets on their backs saying, "I don't know where to go next. I don't know where I

can go next. I'm just leaving because I can't find this shelter safe anymore, either."

The U.N. of course, is ringing the alarm. They say that the events that happened in Jabalia could amount to war crimes. And all of this taking

place, just ahead of a very important visit, of course. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is set to be in the region.


He's going to visit Israel. He's going to visit Jordan. Jordan, importantly, just recalled its ambassador to Israel. There is going to be

serious pressure on the United States to respond, to do something about the mounting civilian casualties.

ASHER: All right, Salma Abdelaziz, live for us there. Thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: I want to go to northern Israel now where Jim Sciutto is reporting what he is seeing there which is shelling that's been reported.

Kiryat Shmona is in northern Israel. Rockets have been fired in that area. Hamas is taking responsibility for this.

Jim, you are there on the ground for us. I know you've just witnessed the shelling yourself. Tell us about what you saw.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF U.S. SECURITY ANALYST: Yeah, this is definitely the most intense period of rocket fire from southern Lebanon since the start of

this war on October 7th.

We're hearing of dozens of rockets coming in. Most of them landing off target but that one in Kiryat Shmona hit a very busy traveled street there.

A lot of these communities are under mandatory evacuation including Kiryat Shmona, although that hit near an area where Israeli soldiers congregate.

And that's, of course, the concern. There is still a lot of people around up here. And this pace of rocket fire, something that had not been seen, so


My team and I, we were coming back from the Israel -- the Golan Heights between Israel and Syria when we heard two big booms, one after the other.

We looked out the window and can see -- this was the iron dome missile defense -- rocket defense engaging. And it took out two of the rockets. You

could see the plumes in the sky as it happens. And then you heard more and more coming in.

Again, the most intense period of rocket fire coming in from southern Lebanon in these last couple of weeks. And of course, Bianna, the concern

had been, if and when Hezbollah and other fighters based in southern Lebanon would step up their attacks from the north on Israel and this is

definitely an uptick.

Whether this signals a larger participation by those Iranian proxies in Hezbollah in Lebanon rather in this war we don't know. But a great deal of

attention and anticipation focused on tomorrow when the leader of Hezbollah -- Nasrallah, is going to give a highly anticipated public speech, his

first public speech since the October 7th attacks, could he announce greater involvement from Lebanon?

We'll be watching very closely. But tonight, something of a calling card, perhaps. Certainly, Hezbollah and other Iran-backed fighters in southern

Lebanon showing their presence this evening in northern Israel.

ASHER: Yeah, we're hearing that 12 rockets specifically were fired there in the town of Kiryat Shemona in northern Israel. Just, Jim, to your point,

I mean, obviously everybody's going to be watching to see what Hassan Nasrallah says in that widely anticipated speech tomorrow, but we know, to

your point, that Hezbollah has really been spoiling, right? They've been spoiling for a fight with Israel.

Now that we're seeing this ground incursion occur in Gaza and the fighting there really move up to sort of the second phase of this war, what do you

expect to see on the ground in northern Israel, just in terms of a dramatic escalation here?

SCIUTTO: Well, that had been the possible trigger, right, concern, that if and when Israeli forces went into Gaza in numbers, that there would be a

reaction from Iran's other proxies in the region, such as Hezbollah, such as the Houthis in Yemen.

So far, the reaction in that ground incursion is several days in, has been largely from the air, rockets, missiles fired from Yemen, anti-tank fire,

mortars across the border, something of a slow burn.

What we're seeing in this last hour or two is definitely a faster, a hotter burn in terms of those attacks. Whether Nasrallah orders a full on

participation of his fighters, the Hezbollah fighters and other Iran proxies in southern Lebanon, that would be quite a step up, quite an

escalation of this current conflict.

And the question, really, when I speak to Israeli military officials and others here as well as U.S. intelligence and military officials is what

calculation will a group like Hezbollah make because they may want to show their power, attack Israel, retaliate in their own right, but they also

have other cards in this game.

Iran, for instance, relies on Hezbollah in effect as its defense, its deterrence against an Israeli attack on its nuclear program. That's one

reason why there are so many Iran-supplied missiles in Lebanon that Hezbollah has. If it were to use a great deal of that arsenal on Israel,

then that presumably lessens their deterrent against an attack on Iran's nuclear program.


So, there are a lot of calculations in there and some of these actors, they act in concert, in support of their brothers in arms, but they also act

selfishly. So, when Nasrallah speaks, when he makes that decision, what will win the day?

Will he decide to have a slight increase in Hezbollah involvement or a full-on participation with the other follow-on consequences? We don't know

yet. What we're seeing tonight is at least certainly an uptick in Hezbollah's involvement in this war.

ASHER: Yeah, and the big question, of course, is can Israel manage? Can they manage a war on two fronts? The Israelis are saying that they can, but

you have to consider that Hezbollah is so much stronger than they were during that war in 2006, which by the way ended in a stalemate pretty much.

Jim Sciutto, live for us there. Thank you so much, appreciate it.

GOLODRYGA: We have new information about hostages being held by Hamas. The Israel military says 242 people are still being held captive in Gaza. A

military spokesman says the IDF is committed to returning everyone home. He adds 332 IDF soldiers have died since the October 7 attacks.

CNN's Becky Anderson joins me now live in Doha, Qatar. And Becky, we're getting more information and hearing more from experts, including those

that we had on the show who have been in touch with Hamas.

Officials in the past when it comes to hostage negotiations, and they are echoing what many others are saying, and that is not enough pressure

perhaps is being put on the Qataris to get these hostages out. There have just been four released thus far. What more are you hearing from your

sources there? Because many suggesting they could put more pressure on Hamas if needed.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: It's interesting, isn't it? Those criticisms echoed by the Israeli Foreign Minister last week at a high-level U.N.

meeting who said, and I quote him here, Qatar, which finances and harbors Hamas' leaders, he said, could influence and enable the immediate and

unconditional release of all of the hostages held by the terrorists. He said of the international community should demand Qatar do just that.

Well, I put that criticism to the adviser, to the Qatar Prime Minister a couple of days ago, and they really knock that back. They say these are

provocative statements which they say really endanger lives. And they also point out that the Israeli National Security Adviser last week described

Qatar's diplomatic efforts as crucial at this time.

On the hostages, thew window is still open. I'm told by sources, talks are currently still ongoing. They say, albeit, and they've said this now for

five or six days, these talks have been made more difficult. And this is from diplomatic sources who are heavily involved in what is going on in

these talks.

They say they've been made more difficult since the Israeli escalation on the ground. Of course, we are now very clear from the Israeli side who have

argued that it is only by increasing the pressure on Hamas to free on Hamas that they will get these hostages free. So, you know that pressure is

there, the criticism is out there.

The bottom line is that Qatar is a key ally for Washington in this region. It has also kept back channel contacts with Israel. The head of the Israeli

intelligence unit was here in Qatar according to sources just over the weekend.

And of course, it keeps that relationship with Hamas open. But if that is to become a liability for Qatar, then I think, you know, there will be

serious questions being asked here locally.

Antony Blinken and the Qatar Emir last week announced that they had agreed to review the Hamas file once the hostages are released. Bianna, it is not

clear what that means in terms of a future for Hamas leadership hosted here. But those conversations are clearly being had. Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, Becky Anderson, thank you so much for keeping us up to speed there on negotiations, which appear to be at a standstill at this

point. We appreciate it.

ASHER: All right, still to come, emotions certainly running high at a Biden campaign fundraising stop when a rabbi actually interrupted the event

calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. We'll have that story after the break.




ASHER: All right, the war between Israel and Hamas, certainly fueling really strong emotions here in the U.S. President Joe Biden was

interrupted, actually, during a campaign fundraising speech on Wednesday by a rabbi who was calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. Take a look.


UNKNOWN: Mr. President, if you care about Jewish people, as a rabbi, I need you to call for a ceasefire right now.


GOLODRYGA: Now, the President responded by saying that he understands the, quote, "emotion". He went on to say that he's supportive of a humanitarian

pause to allow for the release of hostages held in Gaza, but he has resisted calling for a ceasefire. Here's more of what he said.


JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: The United States is going to continue to drive humanitarian support for innocent people in Gaza who need help when they do

need help. We're going to continue to affirm that Israel has the right to respond -- the responsibility to defend its citizens from terror. And it

needs to do so in a manner those consistent with international humanitarian law that prioritizes protection of citizens.


GOLODRYGA: President Biden has been treading a political tightrope here amid global calls for a ceasefire as the U.S. ally bombards Gaza.

ASHER: All right, we are following a showdown on Capitol Hill over emergency aid to both Israel and Ukraine, as well. And it's exposing some

major division and political rifts that could slow down funding to America's allies.

GOLODRYGA: New House Speaker Mike Johnson, a Republican, is pushing a vote on a standalone bill providing $14 billion in emergency aid to Israel.

Johnson's bill would pay for Israel aid by slashing an equal amount of funding to the IRS, which Democrats view as a political stunt. The White

House instead is supporting one measure that provides aid to both Israel and Ukraine, and Senate leaders on both sides of the aisle support that


ASHER: All right, I want to bring in U.S. House Republican Cory Mills of Florida for his take on all of this. Representative, thank you so much for

coming back on the show. We appreciate it. So, of course, Israel is in crisis right now, okay? They need the U.S.' help desperately.

This idea of tying aid to Israel with, of course, IRS enforcement and limiting how much money can be spent on IRS enforcement is, of course, a

non-starter for Democrats in the Senate. It's an obvious non-starter for the White House. How do we reconcile that?

CORY MILLS, U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: Well, look, at the end of the day, the one thing, if you ask the American people that they want, it is not 87,000

more IRS agents. It is not continuing to utilize a weaponized DOJ or utilizing weaponized areas of government to target Americans.


We acknowledge the fact that we support Israel's right to its own defense. We saw the horrendous incidents that occurred in Gaza by the terrorist

organization Hamas, who is obviously supported by Iran, the largest state sponsor of terror, and the geopolitical alignment of China, Russia, Iran,

North Korea.

So, I think that it's the right call. I think that we do need to be looking at cut goals. We need to be looking at the fund priorities but not increase

our debt ceiling.

ASHER: But Congressman -- Congressman, knowing that it's a non-starter for Democrats, I mean, don't you at some point just have to put U.S. national

security interests above politics?

MILLS: Well, remember, the President also said the D.C. Crime Bill was also a non-starter and he would veto it. The Democrats also in the Senate

said that we would not support the FRA --the Fiscal Responsibility Act.

We continue to hear this rhetoric, and each time when the American people has acknowledged that this is what they want, you've seen where instead of

vetoing it, as he had claimed, the President actually signed it into law.

And so, we need to be able to do exactly what is right for the conference and for the House of Representatives, and we'll allow the Senate and the

President to answer to the American people if they so choose.

GOLODRYGA: Congressman, Speaker Johnson spoke with Senate Republicans and said that he does support additional aid for Ukraine separate to this

initial bill that he's hoping to get passed exclusively for Israel. He says that's not a political stunt, but we have seen the President and now "The

Wall Street Journal" is reporting that U.S. intel suggests that Russia's Wagner Group may be providing air defense weapons for Hezbollah.

President Biden has linked these two wars generally, maybe not directly. But in terms of helping an ally in Israel, if you have Russia perhaps

helping its adversary, why not get that funding to both countries at once?

MILLS: Well, I think that Speaker Johnson is absolutely correct in making sure that we vote on aid packages individually so that it is a member-

driven, not speaker-driven, decentralized House of Representatives. This allows every single representative to vote with their convictions, their

conscience, and their constituency.

In some cases, constituents support more aid to Ukraine and others -- they don't. They want to see oversight. They want to see the accountability.

They want to see an investigation into the corruption which has already been leaked out of Zelenskyy's administration.

And so, for others, they see where the Iron Dome is necessary to preserve and protect humanitarian lives. And so, I think the right thing to do is

not to try and continue to tether aid packages together to be able to vote on them separately and I support Speaker Johnson's decision to do this.

Representative, just pivoting slightly, I want to talk about the staggering and really upsetting rise in just the number of anti-Semitic hate crimes in

the U.S. actually, really across the world right now. Jews are scared. You know, Jews who live in the United States are scared right now.

You see what's happening on the streets in places like New York, even Los Angeles. You see what's happening on college campuses. It's a really

difficult time. How do we address that as a society, do you think?

MILLS: Well, I think that we have to stand up and understand that we won't allow and we won't condone hate of any kind. I think that that's something

that we need to send a broader message on, that we won't continue to be divided in this, but we'll be unified in our message to condemn anti-

Semitism, as well as for other hate crimes.

But I also think that we need to be very cognizant of the fact that places like TikTok and other social media has continued to drive this social and

cultural revolution in our youth by poisoning and utilizing academia, as well.

And so, it is unsafe for people to continue to be able to think that they can threaten others. We just saw this at Cornell University. We just saw

this at NYU, where there are students who are literally in fear of their lives.

We live in America where you should be safe to walk on the streets. You should be safe to, you know, believe in pluralism and our idea of being

able to worship in any faith, and that was covered in our constitution.

But I support one of the things that Marco Rubio said. If these individuals who are pro-Hamas, who are actually putting the risk in lives of Americans

to make them feel in jeopardy, and they're on a visa, and they're not American citizens, I think we should revoke their actual visa and deport

them back to their home.

You should not come here and go to our universities on a visa and threaten the American lives or trying to endanger and make people feel unsafe

through your rhetoric where you're trying to promote a terrorist organization like Hamas.

GOLODRYGA: We'll talk more about the rise in anti-Semitism later in the show, but Congressman, I do want to go back to what we heard from the

President yesterday, really pressured to answer the question on whether or not he supports a ceasefire. He says he supports some sort of humanitarian


You were in Israel. There is increased pressure from more Democrats now. Senator Dick Durbin on our air this morning said that he calls for a

ceasefire. What is your take in terms of what a ceasefire would do? Israel says that it would only embolden Hamas. How do you view this issue?

MILLS: Israel is exactly right. Not only would it embolden Hamas, but it would be a victory lap for Iran, China, Russia, and North Korea. It will

embolden Hassan Nasrallah of Hezbollah. It would also do the same thing for Hadi Al-Ahmri and Qais Ghazali and those who are part of the Iranian-backed

proxies and militias of Iraq.


I think that what the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the IDF are doing to exterminate Hamas and the terrorist organization that

threatens the lives not just of Israelis but also of Palestinians utilizing them for shields and endangering them.

And I think that the risk is that, when we do provide certain types of humanitarian aid, we need to be very cautious because in the past, that

humanitarian aid these hundreds of millions and billions of dollars has actually gone to Hamas to be able to fund these tunnel systems that are

being utilized right now to attack innocent civilians.

And so, I do not actually think that the President is right in this. I think that we have to be very smart and limiting collateral damage and

making sure that we don't endanger civilian lives. But I think that we need to eliminate these terrorist organizations or they're going to continue to


ASHER: All right, Congressman Cory Mills, always good to have you on the program. Thank you so much.

MILLS: Thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: Thank you.

ASHER: All right, still to come. Chaos, panic and utter disbelief as Israel strikes a crowded refugee camp in Gaza for the second day in a row,

the emotional aftermath when we come back.


ASHER: All right, welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher.

GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. We're getting new images showing the scale of the destruction at Gaza's largest refugee camp. Israel has

confirmed that its warplanes hit the Jabalia camp for a second straight day on Wednesday.


ASHER: That's right. Video is showing -- from the scenes, shows people standing around large craters as volunteers -- you see them here searching

for people who may indeed be trapped between collapsed buildings in the rubble.

A local hospital director there says that at least 80 people were killed and hundreds injured in Wednesday's strike. The U.N. human rights office

said the scale of the destruction here and the high number of civilian casualties in these attacks could amount to war crimes.

GOLODRYGA: The Jabalia camp has been a frequent target over the years. Israel says that it is a Hamas stronghold. The IDF says the latest strike

took out a Hamas command and control complex and adds that Hamas deliberately builds its terror infrastructure around and within civilian


ASHER: CNN's Nadia Bashir has more on the Israeli strikes on this particular camp and the emotional toll that it's taken on Palestinians. We

want to warn you, of course, that some of the images in her report are extremely graphic, indeed.


NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chaos and horror at Gaza's Jabalia refugee camp. Wounded children rushed to nearby ambulances. The latest casualties

of Israel's relentless aerial bombardment. This densely populated neighborhood gripped by panic and sheer disbelief, a second Israeli

airstrike in less than 24 hours.

"I lost my whole family," Abdulkarim says, holding a list of those killed just today. "My sister's house was struck with her children inside. My

brother's house, too, with all of his children. There is no one left except for me and my younger brother. They were innocent. What did they do to

deserve this?"

Israel's Defense Force says it was targeting a Hamas command and control complex in Jabalia. Hamas fighters said to be among those killed. But

Jabalia is home to more than 100,000 civilians, according to the U.N.

And while the full extent of the civilian death toll remains unclear at this stage, Gaza's civil defense authority has described this latest

disaster as a massacre, with more casualties and more fatalities added to the list of hundreds said to have been killed or wounded in Tuesday's


"This situation is beyond belief. Many have been killed. Bodies have been left burned and charred by the airstrike," this doctor says. "There isn't a

hospital in the world that could cope with this kind of situation. We're having to treat patients on the floor and in corridors."

The scale of the destruction at Jabalia is difficult to grasp. Many residents are still buried beneath the blackened rubble. Rescue workers and

civilians dig side by side, desperate to find survivors. This house had 15 people in it, but we still haven't been able to find any of them, Hassan

Ahmed says. We have no equipment. We are digging alone."

Northern Gaza continues to come under heavy bombardment. Its residents warned by Israel to evacuate southwards. But airstrikes continue to rain

down across both central and southern Gaza, too. And for the more than two million Palestinians living under an Israeli blockade, the fear is that

there is nowhere safe to turn. Nada Bashir, CNN in Jerusalem.


GOLODRYGA: Well, as Israel continues its bombardment, there are countless civilians, aid workers and journalists caught in the crosshairs and unable

to evacuate to safety, including our CNN colleague Ibrahim Dahman, along with his wife and two young sons.

ASHER: We're so grateful for Ibrahim's reporting here. This particular report that he's bringing us is from a U.N. refugee camp in Khan Yunis

where he says that there are more than 20,000 people crammed together, hungry, afraid and also sleeping on the ground. Take a look.


IBRAHIM DAHMAN (voice-over with English translation): We are in the UNRWA shelter camp, west of Khan Younis. The shelter has more than 20,000 people

who were displaced from northern Gaza. Everyone here has physical and mental exhaustion. Food arrives irregularly and the water is not suitable

for drinking. The food is very bad. Every two to three days, they deliver canned food. The place is very crowded. We talked to several families

living in tents. Many of them sleep on the floor and if it rains, they will have nowhere to go and will get wet.


There are more than 20,000 people here. It's a very large place. It's a very large place.



GOLODRYGA: Well, since the Hamas attacks of October 7th, a new wave of anti-Semitism has left Jewish communities on edge and living in fear of

extremist violence. The spread of global hatred, whether it's in the form of death threats, vile abuse on social media, or the tearing down of

posters of kidnapped Israelis, has been tracked by the Anti-Defamation League. According to its preliminary data, anti-Semitic incidents against

both Jews and Muslims in the United States alone have skyrocketed by 388 percent over the last 26 days.

ASHER: And emotions continue to boil over as well, specifically on college campuses. You and I have been talking about this. One of America's most

prestigious universities, Cornell, cancelling classes on Friday, citing what it calls extraordinary stress of the last few weeks.

It comes after a student was accused of threatening to kill and injure Jewish students in social media reports. Here's our Brian Todd with more on



BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After several days of fear gripping the Cornell University campus in upstate New York and arrest. A 21-year-old

junior at Cornell, Patrick Day, charged in connection with threatening to kill Jewish students. Prosecutors say in online posts, Day threatened to

bring an assault rifle to campus to shoot up a mainly Kosher dining hall, to stab Jewish students, to throw them off cliffs.

LEVI SCHMUEL, JEWISH STUDENT AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY: I can't imagine what would go through the mind of someone like that. Just, first of all, you're

making threats on like this, like this random website. Like, why would you do that?

SAM FRIEDMAN, JEWISH STUDENT AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY: I mean, I've seen general anti-Semitic sentiment and things like that, but to have not only a

direct threat, but a direct threat to a building that I personally go to and eat at and see friends at. Like, that was really scary and that was

really -- it was bad.

TODD: Patrick Day has not entered a plea. His parents told "The New York Post", they believe their son is innocent. They say he struggles with

depression and never had a history of violence. But in this climate, New York's governor is in no mood for lenience.

KATHY HOCHUL, NEW YORK GOVERNOR: I want to make an example and say as I said on Monday when I told those students, if you do this you will be

caught and you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

TODD: Since the Israel-Hamas war began on October 7th, tensions have boiled across the U.S. on college campuses, at private homes, businesses.


A dramatic spike, officials say, in anti-Semitic and Islamophobic incidents, including assaults, acts of harassment and vandalism. And one

group says, in cases of harassment against Muslims in America --

DINAH SAYEDAHMED, COUNCIL ON AMERICAN ISLAMIC RELATIONS, NEW JERSEY: Many cases do go unreported for fear of retaliation or backlash. The actual

number is likely much higher.

TODD: Why have incidents spiked on college campuses since the start of the Israel-Hamas war?

LA'NITA JOHNSON, EXPERT ON EXTREMISM, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: College campuses is where students are using their voices for the first time.

They're politically active, often they're ready to vote, and so this comes with the territory of university campuses. What we can say about this

particular incident is folks are feeling touched on both sides due to their identities.

TODD: But it's seemingly everywhere. A swastika was spray-painted on a high school football field in Virginia. In Minnesota and New York State,

displays of pictures of Israelis taken hostage have been damaged or torn down. A top Muslim advocacy group in New Jersey says the atmosphere for

Muslims there is reminiscent of the post-9-11 era.

SELAEDIN MAKSUT, COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS, NEW JERSEY: Muslims have been fired from their jobs opposed to the Palestine. Hijabs

have been pulled off in broad daylight here in New Jersey. Students have been called terrorists by public school teachers and parents.

TODD: As federal officials scrabble to combat the spikes of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia, FBI Director Christopher Wray has stressed this is not a

time for panic. He says no one should stop going to school or to houses of worship. But everyone, he says, should stay vigilant. Brian Todd, CNN,



GOLODRYGA: Well, earlier this week, I shared my thoughts on this issue, particularly what many view as a failure in university leadership to

unequivocally condemn the spike in anti-Semitic incidents on their campuses since the October 7th massacre.


GOLODRYGA: There are plenty of other issues they felt that they can address head on. And yet when it comes to the issue of anti-Semitism,

there's always this veiled, well, it's complicated. It's Israel, it's Zionism. No, it is unadulterated anti-Semitism.


GOLODRYGA: Well, time now for The Exchange. Our next guest says there's a clear line between the Hamas attacks and this rise in anti-Semitism

incidents. We're joined now by former Congressman Ted Deutch, who is now the CEO of the American Jewish Committee.

Ted, it is good to see you. Just to address this issue that we're seeing on college campuses specifically, and then we can speak to the global spread

and rise of anti-Semitism, what do you make of Cornell University canceling classes tomorrow?

You know, we have been calling, as you saw, me on air and I know you've been saying this that universities need to do more. Is this what you meant

by needing to do more? Is this the right step?

TED DEUTCH, CEO AMERICAN JEWISH COMMITTEE: Well, first, thanks for having me. I've been in contact with universities most of this week, and there

does need to be more. A day-off is not the answer.

I'm not saying that it's the wrong decision. There is a lot of stress at Cornell after these really terrible threats that left the student, the

Jewish student community, very much on edge, the community as a whole very much on edge.

So, there's a lot of stress. I understand that. And so, perhaps this is warranted. But the response that has to come is some moral clarity on

campuses and the recognition that what we're seeing now is related to Hamas' attack on October 7th.

It's an unwillingness to simply call out that terror that's resulted in the slaughter of 1400 men, women, and children, and thousands injured, and

hundreds taken hostage, and so many Americans among the dead and the wounded and the hostages. That's what's necessary.

And as long as universities are willing to tolerate the kinds of things that we've heard on too many campuses of people praising what happened on

October 7th as some sort of military action that was exhilarating, that brought great joy to the communities, that we're going to continue to see

these kinds of threats and worse.

So, we need university presidents, we need university leaders, just as we need corporate leaders to speak out clearly about what's happening and to

condemn anti-Semitism that has resulted in the kinds of threats that we saw at Cornell.

ASHER: Ted, Zain, here. You know, the past three weeks, just in terms of the staggering rise in anti-Semitism, I mean, it has been a real education

for me. It's been a real education. I've talked to you about this, my dear. Like a lot of it has just really opened my eyes just in terms of what is

lurking underneath the surface in this society.


Last week, a man in Los Angeles broken into the home of a Jewish family threatened to kill them, basically went on an anti-Semitic rant and

threatened to kill them in their own home.

A lot of Jewish people are scared. Some people are asking whether they should take the mezuzah down from their doors or not. Is this a time to

sort of tone down their Jewish heritage?

Rabbis, on the other hand, are saying, listen, no, no. Now is the time to sort of celebrate your Jewish heritage. It's time to celebrate it, to

embrace it. How do you do that? Because you have to be vigilant at a time like this. You have to protect yourself and your family at this really

difficult time. How do you do both?

DEUTCH: Well, Zain, first of all, you raise a really important point, which is that story that came from Los Angeles, that intruder, that that

was screaming anti-Semitic sayings that was threatening to kill the family.

That would have been in a normal time. That would be the story that we're still talking about today. We would still be trying to get our arms around

how that can happen. And without you reminding us, it's just one more in a long list.

ASHER: I know. It's horrible.

DEUTCH: And so, yeah, there is definitely more that we have to do. It is important to be proud Jews. But until we see the kind of leadership that we

need from government leaders, from university leaders, from business leaders that set a tone that says that anti-Semitic rhetoric is simply


On university campuses, it violates the codes of conduct. And if people violate those codes of conduct, then there should be consequences. And when

the violations are serious, they should be expelled.

This isn't about free speech. This is about setting a tone for a campus, for a business, and for the country that says, this is just unacceptable.

There are people walking around in cities across America, tearing down the posters of people who are being held hostage by Hamas in tunnels, babies,

kids, women.

Think about that. Think about the fact that if people were walking down the street, as happens routinely, and they see an image, they see someone who

posted an image of their pet that is missing, they would stop, they would take it in, they would feel bad.

But somehow, we've reached the point where people walk down the street and see the faces of hostages being held by terrorists and tear them down as

some sort of statement. That's what we have to combat.

We need to be proud Jews. That is what I believe, it's what AJC believes, but we also have to be vigilant and we have to expect leadership across our

country and across the world.

GOLODRYGA: Ted, those people tearing down those posters have no shame and I will just say this -- something is wrong with them. They are lacking

something that is so deep inside of them that it is despicable to see those images of the posters being torn down.

You know, what also is despicable is having to wake up this morning like I did to a picture that my stepson who is studying abroad in Madrid sent me

of a swastika that he walked by on his way to campus this morning.

And you know, I would hate that this is sort of our, quote unquote, "new normal". I know you're focused mainly on the U.S., but what are your

interactions like with your colleagues who are also trying to tackle this scourge abroad?

DEUTCH: You know, actually, AJC has offices around the world. I was just recently in Berlin in our Berlin office, where we met with the chancellor

of Germany and told him about the meeting that we had with Jewish students in Germany, who in 2023 walk across their campuses as people screen gas the

Jews at them.

The same thing is true we're seeing across Europe. Our office -- our European office in in Paris is being told the same thing. I was on a call

with leaders of the South African Jewish community just the other day -- the same kinds of outrageous statements.

The fact that -- and this is not just about the Jews. When society allows someone to scream, kill anybody, let alone kill the Jews, kill anyone, the

collective outrage should be so great, it should be all anyone is talking about. And yet somehow it's different in the eyes of too many people

because it's the Jewish community.


And I say this -- and Bianna, you know this, I say this not out of some sense of despair at this moment, but because the Jewish community

unfortunately has dealt with anti-Semitism for millennia. And we know what happens when people don't call it out.

It's too often led to pogroms -- pogroms in Russia that caused my grandparents to leave Russia, and the near pogrom like the one in Dagestan,

where there was a group looking to massacre Jews. Pogroms like the one, the massacre that happened in Israel.

We've seen what happens when people get, the Jews get expelled from countries. And the worst case, the near extermination, the attempted

extermination of the Jewish people by the Nazis. That -- that's what we bring to bear. That's why this is all so, so painful for us and it's why

demanding the collective outrage from the world is just not too much for us to be asking at this point.

ASHER: And it's the fact that it was the massacre of 1400 Jews. It was the massacre of Jews that brought out anti-Semitism across the world. That is

what gets me. But Ted Deutch, we have to leave it there.

GOLODRYGA: Thank you so much.

ASHER: Thank you for what you're doing, Ted.

GOLODRYGA: There's a real sense of vulnerability amongst Jews around the world. So, thank you so much for being a voice. All right, well, I'll be

back at the top of the hour with "AMANPOUR". But ONE WORLD will continue right after the break.


ASHER: Russia continues to pound targets in Ukraine as fighting rages on. Ukraine has now ordered the mandatory evacuation of dozens of children in

the Kharkiv region, that's according to one official.

It comes after reports that four people were killed in Russian attacks on the regions of Zaporizhzhya, Kherson and Kharkiv on Wednesday.

CNN's Scott McLean is following the developments. Scott, obviously so much of the world's attention now focused on the Israel-Gaza war. Just give us

an update right now in terms of where things stand on the battlefields of Ukraine.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey Zain, yeah, so the evacuation of children that you mentioned has been taking place in towns and villages

near the front lines in the south, in the east, and now in the north of Ukraine in Kharkiv, as well.

And part of the reason why this is happening is because Ukraine says that the Russians continue to pound relentlessly using artillery. These

communities right on the front lines. Though the front lines aren't moving that quickly at all.


In fact, Ukraine's top general, Valerii Zaluzhnyi, says that they have -- the front lines are solidifying and this is becoming a war of attrition.

It's a scenario that undoubtedly favors Russia.

And look, Ukraine has asked for this weapon or that weapon in the past from the West, but in an interview with "The Economist", he says that, look,

there is no one single silver bullet.

He says it's a combination of things that might turn the tables. Better air power, better electronic warfare, better ability to take out Russian

artillery positions, better demining capabilities, because you have these minefields that are 15 or 20 kilometers deep in some cases, and more

reserves to be called up.

Now, Russia says that, look, the war has not reached a dead end and it won't wrap up until it achieves all of its goals. Zain.

ASHER: Scott McLean, live for us there. As you point out, a top commander saying that the war has entered into a stalemate. Scott McLean, live for us

there. Thank you so much. That does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher. "AMANPOUR" is up next.