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One World with Zain Asher
Palestinians Continue Fleeing To Safety; Ivanka Trump Testifies At A New York Courthouse; Egypt Becomes A Key Diplomatic Player As The Israel- Hamas War Unfolds; Israel Not Going To Occupy Gaza Strip; Ethnic-Related Killings Surge In Darfur; Coral Spawning Works In Great Barrier Reef. Aired 12-1p ET
Aired November 08, 2023 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: All right. Welcome everyone. It's so good to be with you. There are signs the U.S. and Israel could be on
different pages when it comes to post-war Gaza.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: "One World" starts right now. What will Gaza look like after the war? The United States says one thing.
Israel is saying another. We'll speak with Benjamin Netanyahu's right-hand man.
ASHER: And he's been federally indicted, accused of trying to steal an election, and is still -- is still the front-runner in the presidential
election. New polling says that Donald Trump is holding on to his lead.
GOLODRYGA: And later, something we could all use -- good news. Positive signs for the planet
in the great barrier reef.
ASHER: All right, thanks so much for being with us. Coming to you live from New York, I am Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Welcome to "One World". Scores of Palestinians are fleeing to safety right now, as Israel warns it's
tightening its stranglehold around Gaza City. This is the scene on one of the two main highways in Gaza, now serving as a temporary evacuation
corridor opened by Israel.
ASHER: What we are seeing here is men, women, children. Some of them, as you see there in the distance, waving white flags. Others, holding their
hands in the air. And nearly all of them with nothing more than the clothes on their backs.
All of them are fleeing what the IDF is calling, quote, "a fierce battlefield". The Israeli Prime Minister says that his country's forces
have encircled Gaza City and that they are operating inside of it, increasing pressure on Hamas every hour.
GOLODRYGA: But it's his comments about what might happen once the violence ends that drew a quick response from the United States. Prime Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu suggested that Israel would take security responsibility for security in Gaza for an indefinite period after the war is over. But
America's top diplomat said any new government there must be led by Palestinians.
Antony Blinken did, however, acknowledged there may be a need for some transition period, something reiterated by the U.S. National Security
Council spokesman a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL SPOKESMAN: All of us can foresee a period of time after the conflict is over where Israeli forces will likely
still be in Gaza and we'll have some initial security responsibilities. But for how long and where, to what size and scale and scope, I think it is too
soon to know that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: I want to talk a little bit more in debt about what is happening in Gaza right now because it is hard to fully comprehend the scale of the
suffering unfolding, because the numbers are staggering. The Palestinian Health Ministry in Ramallah is saying that more than 10,500 people have
been killed by Israeli attacks in Gaza since the war began. Most of them, women, children and the elderly.
GOLODRYGA: And the United Nations is also citing some disturbing statistics. The U.N. agency aiding Palestinian refugees says 92 percent of
its employees have been killed in the conflict in Gaza -- the deadliest ever for its personnel. Other aid groups are also sounding the alarm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM SCHOMBURG, HEAD OF ICRG MISSION IN GAZA: These are not conditions under which humanitarians can work and meet urgently required needs of the
civilian population. Humanitarians, hospitals and civilians must be protected under international humanitarian law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: CNN's Salma Abdelaziz joins us live now from London. So, Salma, we just saw the video there of people fleeing south, but the truth is there is
no safe place in Gaza right now. We know that airstrikes in Rafah as well. Safety in Gaza is a relative term right now, Salma.
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And those people who are fleeing, Zain, they are fleeing an estimated 15,000 of them, just today
alone, according to the United Nations. They are not fleeing during a pause. They are not fleeing during a cessation in hostilities.
They are fleeing as bombs continue to rain down. They are fleeing under harrowing conditions, with no water, to access, with no medical supplies to
access, with only what they can carry -- that could be your child, that could be your elderly relative, and they are heading to a place unknown.
Take a look at our story.
ABDELAZIZ, (voice-over): Taking only what they can carry, families are fleeing Gaza City.
They waived white flags of surrender made of anything that they can find. And as the sounds of war echo around them, they signal yet again, that they
are innocent. I'm a cancer patient and I can't find treatment or food or water, this woman says. We saw death with our own eyes last night. The
whole ground shook.
The Israeli military has been calling for weeks on all those living in the northern part of the strip to move southwards. Most recently, opening what
it called safe corridors for limited windows of time.
We're running down the streets with nothing. We're in danger in every moment. The bombs won't stop, she says. The only way to reach the -- is by
foot or by cart if you can catch it. We were forced to flee, this man says. We have to use these donkey carts because there' no fuel. They cut
everything off to force us out of our homes.
Israeli troops are now in the heart of Gaza City. As Israel's defense minister apparently declared the entire city the enclave's largest
population center a legitimate target.
YOAV GALLANT, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER: Gaza is the biggest stronghold mankind has ever built. This whole city is one big terror base.
Underground, they have kilometers of tunnels connecting to hospitals and schools. We continue to dismantle this capability.
ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): But the U.N. calls this exodus forcible displacement and accuses Israel of the collective punishment of some two
million people. And these routes are dangerous and deadly. This was Salah al-Din street just a few weeks ago.
CNN geolocated and authenticated these videos showing the aftermath of explosions that killed evacuees. You can see luggage among the bodies. And
for those who do not make it, bombardment and siege await them in the south, too. There is no true escape.
ABDELAZIZ (on-camera): I think it's harrowing to see the images of women and children putting their hands up or waiving a bedsheet as a white flag
as if civilians have to surrender in this conflict, that they feel very much trapped in the middle of this, especially when you here the comments
there from Israel's defense minister describing the whole of the city as a Hamas base making the entire population center essentially a legitimate
target for Israeli troops.
And again, you have to remember that many of these Palestinians fear they will never be able to return home. They believe that this is a forced
displacement that will never allow them to come back to Gaza City.
ASHER: Salma Abdelaziz, live for us there. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: Well, happening right now, Donald Trump's daughter Ivanka is on the witness stand at a New York courtroom. She is testifying in the civil
fraud trial against her father that could determine the future of the family business she once helped guide.
ASHER: Prosecutors have been asking her about bank loans she helped secure for multiple Trump properties. Ivanka who is no longer defendant in this
case has said that she has not been tied to the Trump organization since 2017. But New York Attorney General Letitia James begs to differ. She is
arguing that Ivanka is inextricably tied to the Trump organization.
GOLODRYGA: For more on this, let's turn to CNN's Senior Crime and Justice Reporter Katelyn Polantz in Washington, D.C. for us. So, Kate, we know that
Ivanka Trump tried to delay her testimony today to no avail. What if anything did we hear from her thus far?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, she has testified for about two hours. She's back on the stand after a short break.
And she's testifying about not just how she hadn't worked for the company in recent years but about her involvement, even though she wasn't taking a
paycheck from the Trump Organization.
She's talked about how she was involved in some of the efforts to connect with bankers and also in obtaining financing for some of the properties
related to the Trump Organization that ultimately had financed through banks and that in this case, they are being held responsible for over
valuing some of the assets to get favorable terms on those loans.
And so, she did testify to be part of the negotiations to get financing for the Doral Golf Resort in Florida for the Trump Organization. But she has
distanced herself from her father and his business in many different ways, not just highlighting how she hasn't worked for the Trump Organization but
also highlighting that she does business now since she has left the White House out of Florida, not in New York state where this case is taking
And that she wasn't involved in Donald Trump's own submissions of his personal financial statements. That's something that is core to this case,
that the judge is looking to hold the Trump Organization and Trump himself responsible for.
And so, she's the last of 25 witnesses being called by the Attorney General' office following her two brothers and Donald Trump, as well as
accountants and many others who had insight into the Trump financial world, the Trump Organization itself.
And Ivanka Trump here is buttoning up the testimony, perhaps, by the end of today, maybe tomorrow on exactly how much the judge should be weighing, how
much the Trump Organization should be penalized for what it was doing, what it was saying to accountants and banks over the course of many years.
GOLODRYGA: All right, Katelyn Polantz reporting from Washington for us. Thank you.
ASHER: All right. If Joe Biden is going to win a second term in the White House, it is clear right now that he is going to have to do it coming from
behind. A CNN Poll that was released just a few hours ago finds that Donald Trump actually now has a four-point lead over President Biden.
In a hypothetical rematch, the Biden campaign is saying that it's not concerned -- it's not worried about these polls and that there is plenty of
time for the President to make his case to voters.
GOLODRYGA: But it is worth-noting that this is the 14th major poll so far that has found Donald Trump in the lead. Ahead of the 2020 election, no
polls at all gave Trump a lead over Joe Biden, not even one.
ASHER: And despite the strong polls for Donald Trump, Republicans who backed his agenda had a tough day at the ballot box on Tuesday in race
after race, the most widely-watched contest ended up going to Democrats.
Perhaps the biggest win was in Kentucky. That is traditionally a safe state for Republicans, and instead, voters there chose to re-elect Democrat Andy
Beshear as Governor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDY BESHEAR, KENTUCKY GOVERNOR: This wasn't my win. This was our victory. It was a victory that sends a loud, clear message. A message that
candidates should run for something and not against someone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Democrats also got big wins in Virginia where they will now control both houses of the state legislature despite a strong push from the
Republican governor in that state.
And abortion continues to be a major issue on the ballot. Progressives in Ohio are celebrating today after they won a vote to protect abortion rights
in that state.
ASHER: All right, let's bring in our dear friend, John Avlon, CNN Political Analyst. He is the author of numerous books, including "Washington's
Farewell". John, so good to see you. Here is my question to you.
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.
ASHER: Here's my question to you. Is it premature for all of us to be looking at the races yesterday and drawing conclusions about what's going
to happen in 2024? Because the key difference, of course, when it comes to next year is that Donald Trump will be on the ballot and that changes
everything. The MAGA Republicans don't necessarily show up if he is not on the ballot.
AVLON: I would say it's too short -- it's too soon to over-index polls a year out from now. But it's not too soon to analyze what happened when
voters actually went to the polls yesterday.
You are right, of course. Donald Trump was not literally on the ballot yesterday. But I have been digging into the down ballot races and a lot of
the details, and I think that the candidate to hug Donald Trump the closest were punished by voters.
So, let me explain. Let's take a look at Kentucky and Mississippi. Two deep red states Donald Trump won by more than 20 points. Incumbent Governor in
Mississippi, re-elected. Incumbent Governor, Democrat, re-elected in Kentucky. But in both cases, these top of the ticket folks really embraced
and paraded their Trump endorsement. And yet, the Republicans in both cases did worse then the down ballot Republicans.
It means there's a lot of ticket splitting going on. So, in Kentucky, some folks voted for Republican for Attorney General, Republican for Secretary
of State, but a Democrat for Governor.
In Ohio -- big Republican state in recent years. But it is the seventh time since the overturning of Roe v. Wade that an attempt to, you know, by folks
to either protect or crack down on abortion rights, the pro-choice side has won every single time including in counties that Trump won.
They voted to preserve abortion rights in the state constitution. So, I think this was a repudiation of Donald Trump. And I don't think that it's
going to stop going forward. I think that's what we're seeing again and again. Not just about abortion. It's about the Trump agenda and the people
who hug it most tightly.
GOLODRYGA: So, John, we know the Biden administration was celebrating the results last night. Even calling Andy Beshear, congratulating him, despite
the fact that Beshear was really distancing himself throughout this election cycle. And I want you to comment on what Jonathan Shade in "New
York" magazine wrote.
And he titled a piece, "Democrats Have A Biden Problem. Not A Party Problem". Do you agree with that? Is that the case reflective on what we
saw last night and then coupling that with not the national polls that we're seeing, but even, you know, some of these swing state polls that we
saw from "The New York Times" earlier this week?
AVLON: Yeah. Sure. Look, I think Biden clearly has a problem rooted in his age, in perceptions of vigor. And that's real. And voters are doing a very
basic bit of math, which is it's unlikely to get better in a second term, as he gets older. That's a problem that Biden -- it's a trap. He can't get
out of that. It's baked in the cake, so to speak.
Now, what the Biden people will tell you is keep on looking at how Democrats are out performing the polls and expectations in every special
election, in the midterms. And, that you know, it's one of Biden's favorite lines, don't compare me to the almighty. Compare me to the alternative. And
Donald Trump, while he's doing very well in a lot of polls, has a 29, 30 percent approval rating nationwide. That is not setting up to be a success
in the general election.
But I don't think Democrats can't afford to ignore the concerns people have about Biden simply because the stakes are too high with Donald Trump
running for re-election. What it means for our democracy, and frankly, democracy around the world.
So, you know, I agree with it to some extent. I could say it simultaneously, I think Biden has been a consequential precedent. Many of
his policies that he's accomplished have been very popular. And polls show that they are not as widely known as they should be. But I don't think
Democrats should take too much comfort in the idea they can re-brand and promote his accomplishments, because they haven't succeeded in doing so to
date, despite a lot to work with, frankly.
ASHER: I mean, it's a perception problem for President Biden.
AVLON: Politics is perception.
ASHER: The Republican debates are tonight. I mean, are they a waste of time at this point? Especially when you consider the fact that the two debates
we've seen beforehand just have not changed the fundamentals at all.
AVLON: They have adjusted the fundamentals, but you are right to the extent that Donald Trump is still in full position. I continue to have the
defiantly optimistic perspective that you know, polls are interesting. But the poll I care about most is when people actually begin to vote. And while
Donald Trump isn't in a dominant position in the side the Republican party, not nationally, you, know he is just a deeply unpopular polarizing figure
when it comes to a general election.
I think there is still room for things to shake out differently inside the Republican party. Nikki Haley, for example. Over the course of these two
debates, former South Carolina Governor, and the only woman in the race, has steadily increased her approval. DeSantis has declined slightly and in
some ways, you could say it's really a Trump-DeSantis-Haley race right now.
Chris Christie has got a lane. You know, but it's a pretty narrow lane. I think the fact that, you know, what people watching tonight is whether
Nikki Haley can continue to have a break at performance, and really take out the, what is left of DeSantis's momentum who got a boost from Kim
Reynolds, the Governor of Iowa endorsing him the other day.
So, I just think, you know, what the debates. These things matter. The Republican party, you know, plurality of Republicans are either open to or
don't want Donald Trump, or are open to someone else. A third of the party is not going anywhere, no matter what he does.
So, debates matter. Pay attention, Nikki Haley, see if she can continue the momentum, because she could carve out a place that's a real alternative to
Donald Trump inside the Republican party.
GOLODRYGA: John, what specifically will you be watching for tonight on issues? Do you expect there to be a lot of questions, and sort of aftermath
analysis of what we saw last night from voters election night, and the repudiations specifically on the issue of abortion?
AVLON: Certainly, there should be. And Nikki Haley in particular has been trying to carve out a sort of middle ground on abortion. You know, saying
that look, she is personally opposed to abortion. Most Americans aren't there. A six-week abortion ban like the one Ron DeSantis pushed through in
Florida is not a way to unite the nation on this very personal issue.
In some ways, what we're finding out organically is the old Clinton-era formulation, which is safe, legal, and rare. Abortions should be a woman,
her doctor, her, family and her God. And so, therefore, if you are going to have a ban, be careful of national solutions. But it should be at a fairly
high mark, i.e., obviously, not first term, not third term. Sometime in the second trimester, having to do with fetal viability. Nikki Haley's best
position to try to carve out that middle ground.
Again, I think the question for me is will Republicans stop, and I think there are signs they, are trying to tiptoe around Donald Trump because they
think that they'll be able to absorb his base? They won't.
Leadership requires standing up for what you believe. Punch back. DeSantis is starting to do with Trump questioning his mental acuity. Given how
frequently he on schools onstage right now. Look for more of that. And also, look to see whether, again, Nikki Haley and DeSantis being in
position, they really stand out. You've got clear differentiation on foreign policy within the Republican party.
Nikki Haley representing the old internationalist tradition, and other folks doing the neo-isolationist stuff with Donald Trump. Those sorts of
substantive areas are where they should be focused because presidents implement policy. Too often, it's about this window dressing and style
ASHER: And we'll also see how much Israel, I mean, obviously, the world has changed dramatically, right since the previous debate? So, we'll see how
much the U.S. policy on Israel comes up, as well. John Avlon, always good to see you, my friend.
AVLON: Always good to see you, guys. Be well.
ASHER: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Well, still ahead, Egypt's emerged as a key player in the international response to the Israel-Gaza war. It's opened up its border to
let humanitarian aid in. We'll tell you why it remains wary of letting Palestinian refugees out, when we return.
ASHER: And as Israel continues to battle Gaza, U.S. and Israel has weighed in on who should take charge of the enclave after the war. We'll discuss
after the break.
ASHER: All right. Egypt has been a key diplomatic player, as the Israel- Hamas war unfolds, helping trucks bring desperately needed aid into Gaza and also opening up the Rafah border crossing to get hundreds of foreign
nationals and wounded Palestinians out.
But Cairo is wary of opening the border too wide, fearing an influx of refugees. CNN's Melissa Bell reports.
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For a month now, Israel's war on Hamas has mostly focused on the north of Gaza, splitting the enclave in two and
forcing civilians south, even on foot. With 70 percent of Gazans now displaced, the pressure around the Rafah crossing is growing. So too, are
Egyptian fears over an influx of refugees.
NABIL FAHMY, FORMER EGYPTIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: The assumption was the south is safer, and now the south is also being bombed. And of course, from the
south, they will be asked to leave. Since we are still looking for combatants, you need to move out, and move out means move into Egypt.
I don't know a case in history where the Israelis have allowed Palestinians to go back. We are not going to participate in a process that we know is
meant to empty the Gaza area from its inhabitants and make it into Israeli security enclave.
BELL: Egypt has from the start of the conflict, played a key role, opening up its airports for international aid, setting up field hospitals for the
most severely wounded Palestinians, and giving foreign passport holders a desperately needed way home.
SUSAN BESEISO, PALESTINIAN-AMERICAN EVACUEE FORM GAZA: It's like, you die or you leave. What do you choose between? Your childhood memories, your
home, your land, or being alive?
BELL: But the numbers and nature of those getting out of Gaza have been carefully controlled by Cairo.
TIMOTHY KALDAS, TAHRIR INSTITUTE FOR MIDDLE EAST POLICY: The Egyptian authorities have had many concerns about that border area for quite some
time, but also have cooperated with a really painful blockade on the Gazan population for much of the last 17 years.
BELL: A complicated history with Israel and Gaza have fueled Egyptian caution, but so, too, have domestic issues.
KALDAS: The standard of living in the country has collapsed, poverty has risen, labor force participation has declined substantially, and the result
is that people are very frustrated. Inflation in Egypt reached about 40 percent, inflation on food exceeded 60 percent.
BELL: With elections next month, and as the conflict drags on, Egypt's President has taken no chances.
ABDEL FATTAH EL-SISI, EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The expansion of the conflict is not in the interest of the region. The region
will become a ticking time bomb that harms us all. This is why I am saying, please, Egypt is a sovereign country and I hope we all respect its
sovereignty and status. What I am saying now is not to brag, but Egypt is a very strong country that shall not be touched.
BELL: Egypt, striking a delicate balance between meeting the urgent humanitarian needs of Gazans without opening the door too far, even as it
keeps a close eye on those voicing support for the Palestinian people back home in a country all too familiar with the power of the street. Melissa
Bell, CNN, Cairo.
ASHER: All right, still to come here, flipping burgers and answering phones may not sound like much, but for soldiers at the front lines, it certainly
means a lot. We'll meet some of Israel's volunteer after the break.
ASHER: Welcome back to One World. I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: I'm Bianna Golodryga.
While the Israel-Hamas war enters its second month, what happens when the war is over? It's not yet clear. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
raised eyebrows earlier this week when he said that Israel needs to be in charge of Gaza security for an indefinite period to prevent future attacks
Since then, Israeli officials have clarified his comments, saying that it would not be a reoccupation. Still, the U.S. says a long-term presence is
not a good idea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: One, Gaza cannot be -- continue to be run by Hamas. It's also clear that Israel cannot occupy Gaza. Now, the
reality is that there may be a need for some transition period at the end of the conflict, but it is imperative that Palestinian people be central to
governance in Gaza and in the West Bank as well. And that again, we don't see a reoccupation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: So, if Israel is only going to be in charge of security, who exactly is going to govern Gaza? It's a question that has come up time and time
again. As you remember, Israel pulled out of the enclave back in 2005, the Hamas political wing has been in charge since 2007 after driving Al-Fattah.
There have been suggestions that the U.N., or perhaps even the Palestinian Authority could step in, but neither is a popular option.
GOLODRYGA: So time now for the exchange. We're joined by Mark Regev, the senior adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Mark, welcome
to the program. Thank you for taking the time.
So now we know there's been some clarification --
MARK REGEV, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: My pleasure.
GOLODRYGA: -- from your government as to what the prime minister was indicating that there may be a temporary security hold over Gaza by Israel.
But in terms of who will be governing Gaza, aside from saying it won't be Hamas, we don't have a definitive answer from the Israelis.
And today, we heard from U.S. Secretary of State Blinken sort of the closest signal of where the U.S. stands on this. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLINKEN: We must also work on the affirmative elements to get to a sustained peace. These must include the Palestinian people's voices and
aspirations at the center, a post crisis governance in Gaza. It must include Palestinian lead governance and Gaza unified with the West Bank
under the Palestinian Authority.
And it must include a sustained mechanism for reconstruction in Gaza, and a pathway to Israelis and Palestinians living side by side in states of their
own, with equal measures of security, freedom, opportunity, and dignity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: So, we heard him say Gaza should be unified with the West Bank under the Palestinian Authority once the war ends. Is that opposition that
Israel agrees with? And do you think it's one that could hold, given what we saw in 2007, after the P.A. was effectively kicked out of Gaza? How do
you avoid another coup if the P.A. comes back?
REGEV: I mean, you raise some very important points, because as you just said, when Israel pulled out of the Gaza Strip in 2005, it was handed over
to the Palestinian Authority. But they lost power to Hamas shortly after that, and Hamas has ruled ever since. Sixteen years of Hamas rule, and what
does that brought the people of Gaza? Hardship, suffering, pain, and impoverishment.
So, it's clear when this is over and Hamas is no longer running the Gaza Strip, there will be opportunities, I think, for Gazans that didn't exist
before, important opportunities. As you said, though, however, Israel is not interested in just letting things fall apart after we - after we
destroy Hamas. We have to make sure that the security situation is stable. We have to make sure there isn't the residual terrorist element that starts
to grow again, and Israel will not, cannot ignore what goes on in Gaza.
GOLODRYGA: But -- but --
GOLODRYGA: Just to confirm, do you support, does Israel support what appears to be the U.S. position, and that is that when the war is over,
Gaza should be unified with the West Bank under the leadership of the Palestinian Authority?
REGEV: So, it's not the right time for us to talk about that, and I'll explain why. As you know, just over a month ago, Hamas butchered our people
in the most horrific way. It's all been documented on CNN. The murders, the massacre, the rapes, the beheadings, the burning of people alive, the
shooting of children.
We -- it's all been said, and the whole world has condemned that. But not the Palestinian Authority. The Palestinian Authority in Ramallah has
refused to condemn Hamas. And for Israelis, that's a problem. Because you can't say you are a partner in some sort of, you know, live and let live, a
partner in peace even, and at the same time refused to condemn the Hamas atrocities. Atrocities against innocent civilians.
Today, as we speak, Hamas is still holding 240 Israeli hostages. Of them, 32 children. Of them, babies. Toddlers under three, under four years old.
It's gruesome. It's disgusting. And it needs to be condemned. And yet, people who claim to be the moderate Palestinian voices, people who claim to
be the international communities interlocutors on the Palestinian question, they are silent. They are refusing to condemn. And Israel, for Israel, it's
ASHER: I think you bring up, Mr. Regev, some important points there. I do want to focus also on domestic politics within Israel. As you know, there
have been so many calls within Israel for your boss, Prime Minister Netanyahu, to take responsibility for possible failings that may have
opened up a pathway for October 7th to happen.
He has not done so. He has come out and said look, the focus right now is on dismantling and defeating Hamas. We can have that conversation later.
However, the head of Shin Bet has come out and taken responsibility. The head of IDF military intelligence has come out and taken responsibility.
Even Naftali Bennett, who wasn't even in power for that long, on our show, came out also and took responsibility.
Why is it the right time for them to take responsibility, but not for the prime minister?
REGEV: So, the prime minister has said publicly and believe me, he knows the buck stops there, but he said publicly, when this is over, the
questions will be asked, investigations will be undertaken. We have a history in this country after security mishaps and what happened on October
1st - -on October 7th, was clearly a disaster.
And so there are questions that have to be asked. There's investigations that have to be taken, and the prime minister said, I, myself would be at
the top of the list of people to be questioned and to be --
ASHER: Right. But he's, but Mark, he's talked about that happening at a later date. Why not just come out and say right now, listen. I am
devastated as prime minister. I love this country. I'm devastated by what happened on October 7th. I know, as you point out, Mark, that the buck
stops with me. I have been in power for far too long not to bear some responsibility, but going forward, I promise you that I will do my utmost
to protect Israel.
Why not say something like that? Because the longer you leave it, the more it becomes a thing, and the more people continue to talk about the prime
minister failing to take responsibility here?
REGEV: So, exactly the opposite has sort of happened since the war broke out, because you saw parties who were in the opposition who were very, very
critical of Netanyahu have actually joined him for the duration of the conflict, because this is a time for national unity in the face of a common
And so, this is a time now to focus on defeating Hamas, on winning this war, a war we didn't want, a war that was forced upon us, but we must
nevertheless win it and win it decisively. And when it's over, there will be plenty of time for politics and for investigations. But the focus today,
from our prime minister's perspective, has to be on winning the war.
GOLODRYGA: Mark, let me return back to something you touched on, which I just am shocked is not getting more condemnation and coverage repeatedly
around the world. And that is the unacceptable 240 plus Israeli hostages that are currently held in Gaza right now, as you mentioned, a number of
them small children.
Now you have said earlier that Israel's campaign and its aggression against Hamas, the Israeli intelligence believes, will help and improve the chances
of releasing those hostages. I'd like to get you to response to what Haaretz is reporting, and that is that Egypt is holding advanced talks on a
Gaza Israel cease-fire in exchange for the release of some hostages held by Hamas.
Can you give us any more insight into this? It's been over a week since the ground operation has expanded, and yet we have not seen the hostages
REGEV: So, we haven't seen the hostages released because Hamas is brutal, is horrific, and is capable of the most terrible violence. We saw that
clearly on October 7th. There has to be pressure on Hamas. Hamas isn't going to suddenly released hostages because they've turned into boy scouts,
or that become humanitarians. It's not going to happen.
Hamas will make a power calculation. And that we have to keep the military pressure up on Hamas, beef that pressure up, ratcheted up until Hamas
starts to feel that it has to do something and starts to release the hostages.
At the same time in parallel, you talked about Egypt, there's also in Qatar, there are talks going on behind the scenes to see is it possible to
facilitate a release of hostages. And Israel is open to an arrangement which sees our people getting out, obviously. The Qataris, you know, in
Qatar they host the Hamas leadership. They are under criticism. How can you host people who murder babies? How can you host these terrible terrorists?
And Hamas says, sorry, Qatar says, we host them because that gives us leverage, that gives us influence, and that gives the West a way to speak
to Hamas, and we can moderate their behavior. OK. We say to the Qatar -- the Qataris government, if you believe that you can deliver the release of
hostages, now is the time to put up. Now is the time to show your relationship with Hamas bears fruit, because otherwise, there is no
justification for having a relationship with this brutal terrorist organization that has committed such atrocious crimes against my country,
frankly, crimes against humanity.
GOLODRYGA: Indeed. Mark Regev, we appreciate the time today.
ASHER: Thank you, Mark.
GOLODRYGA: Thank you.
ASHER: We appreciate it.
REGEV: Thank you for having me.
GOLODRYGA: Well, coming up after the break, rising violence in Sudan. Refugees flee amid reports of a surge in ethnically motivated killings in
the war-torn country. We'll have the details, up next.
ASHER: Aid agencies say that refugees arriving into Chad from Sudan have reported a surge in killings and fighting in Darfur.
GOLODRYGA: Ethic-related killings have intensified since fighting broke out in April between Sudanese armed forces and the paramilitary group, the RSF,
according to witnesses and aid groups.
They say that since then, 1.2 million people have fled to neighboring countries. Chad received most of them, followed by South Sudan and Egypt.
ASHER: David McKenzie joins us now. He had some very disturbing video showing the treatment of a group of people rounded up by armed men. David,
the violence in Sudan just simply shows really no sign of abating at this point in time. And the ethnic violence, and the mass killings, I mean, this
is part of a pattern. We have seen this multiple times throughout this conflict.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is a pattern, Zain. It has a pattern that has becoming even more serious. If you look at
these videos that we've confirmed to be around the town of El Geneina in western Darfur. Now what I want to do is show you is surges. It shows Arab
militia, including the RSF, there they are beating a man with a rifle.
And then they are gathering these young man and elderly together. You can't see it because we blurred to keep the safety of the people there. Now we
believe these are African, ethnic Africans from Darfur, an outskirts of El Geneina that we have confirmed. This happened in the last few days, we
There are men debating what to do with those that they have rounded up, including one man saying, liquidate them. Another man saying, slay them. We
haven't been able to confirm exactly what happened to these people. Many of them appear to be civilians.
What we do know is that those fleeing across the border into Chad have said that there has been a targeted ethnic killings that some have called ethnic
cleansing over the past few months. As you say, it's part of a disturbing pattern that shows that these RSF fighters that are locked in a brutal
battle with the Sudan armed forces have been targeting those in the parts of western and northern Darfur over months.
Now, the MSF, Doctors Without Borders, says that there have been at least 7,000 people coming over the border, fleeing for their lives since the
beginning of November. That is a far greater number that was through the previous month in its entirety. Here is one young woman who speaks about
the fear and the chaos that led them to leave.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (through translator): They told me that my brother was killed and we don't know where he is. I, my mother, and my sister's children came. We
don't know where my father is. We couldn't find him. They burnt everything and took everything. We did not bring anything with us. Only God and our
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: Now CNN's own reporting over the past few months and the investigations of the U.N., have identified at least 13 mass graves because
of these targeted killing that's allegedly the RSF and the aligned groups are perpetrating in that region. There is no sign that there's any
ceasefire in this fighting that started in April between the military and these paramilitary groups.
The U.S. and the Saudis are trying to broker some kind of detente. They have agreed, in principle, over the last few days to allow humanitarian aid
into the country. But with much of the focus of the world's attentions elsewhere, the Sudan war continues to rage. And really has had this awful
impact on civilians, particularly on the western part of the country. Zain? Bianna?
ASHER: We're seeing -- and David, we are seeing a rising number of refugees from Sudan heading towards Chad. I mean, Chad is not a wealthy country to
begin with. How are they coping with the massive influx here?
MCKENZIE: Well, they've seen waves of refugees for many years. You will recall the genocide some 20 years ago in Darfur sent multitude of people
sent into Chad. So, they, in some ways are equipped to deal with this humanitarian situation. But the U.N., Doctors Without Borders, and others
say that they are under-funded. That border region is also pretty insecure and has seen skirmishes along the border.
And what you see from of those people and that young woman who have come over, they have fled very awful violence. And the evidence is piling up of
significant war crimes, potentially atrocities. Even a repeat of that genocide that happened all those years ago.
Chad is managing to take in those people. But the overall impact on Sudan and on that region is terrible. And the humanitarian situation is still
very much tenuous, I have to say. Zain?
ASHER: Right. David McKenzie, you're right. The world's attention is elsewhere. But we appreciate you at least keeping your eye on the story. It
is an important one. David McKenzie, live for us there. Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: All right, coming up after the break, a reef revival, its hoped. Australia's underwater is showing signs of recovery. We're down under to
GOLODRYGA: Well, 2023 is shaping up to be the hottest year on record. That's the latest estimate from the European Union's Copernicus Climate
Change Service. Last month was the hottest October on record. In fact, each month since June has seen records broken for global air temperature.
ASHER: I mean, this really is frightening. Copernicus goes on to say that recent months have been even warmer than the same time period in 2016,
which is currently by the way, the hottest year that we've seen so far. Scientists have said climate change is fueling the rise in temperatures,
along with this year's El Nino weather pattern.
One of the chief researchers behind the report said the need for ambitious climate action going into COP28 has never been greater.
GOLODRYGA: Well climate change is considered the greatest threat to the world's coral reefs. But parts of Australia's Great Barrier Reefs are
showing some resiliency with coral now starting to regenerate.
ASHER: Finally, some good news. Very welcome news for scientists who are lobbying the Australian government to do more to protect this natural
wonder. Here is our Ivan Watson with more.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Nighttime on Australia's Great Barrier Reef. The sea explodes in an otherworldly
spectacle. This is coral spawning. One of the world's greatest natural wonders made up of billions of living creatures that reproduce like this
each year. And this season has scientists excited.
ABBI SCOTT, COORDINATOR, CALMS-PORT DOUGLAS HUB: We were out diving until about 11 o'clock last night looking at the coral spawning. And we were
lucky enough to see some of the species spawning. Not all of them but we saw the soft corals. And they filled up the water with bundles of eggs and
sperm, which was really spectacular.
WATSON: The spectacular sight is a type of synchronized breeding. Coral polyps release millions of sperm and egg bundles into the water all at
once. When two bundles from the same species collide, new life is born. It's a display of nature's resilience. Repeated around this time of year
across the Great Barrier Reefs nearly 133,000 square miles.
But while some parts of the reefs remain healthy, other parts are bleaching and dying, killed by temperature rise due to global warming.
ROGER BEEDEN, CHIEF SCIENTIST, GREAT BARRIER REEF MARINE PARK AUTHORITY: They are a little bit like goldilocks. They need the temperature and other
conditions to be just right. And if they go outside of those boundaries then we have this phenomenon called coral bleaching.
WATSON: Scientists in Australia are studying ways to boost the chances for successful reproduction. Right now, it is nature that holds the key to the
BEEDEN: This process of sexual reproduction which is what's going on is also one of the ways in which you get natural adaptation to changing
conditions. Now, one of the big challenges with climate change it is happening so fast that it may mean the genetic variability isn't able to
keep up with it. But nonetheless, it's really important that the process is happening.
WATSON: The coral spawning at more reefs near the city of Cannes gives hope that this wonder of the world might still be rescued. The speed at which we
transition to green energy and the degree to which our planet warms will determine how much of the Great Barrier Reef can be saved.
Ivan Watson, CNN.
GOLODRYGA: Isn't it nice to end on hopeful news?
ASHER: Yes, certainly. We miss it.
GOLODRYGA: It's so beautiful. Well, that does it for this hour of One World. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. Thank you so much for watching. Amanpour is up next.