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One World with Zain Asher

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Insists There Will Be No Ceasefire Without The Release Of Hostages Held By Hamas; Iran-Backed Houthi Rebels Shoot Down Unarmed U.S. Military Drone Off Yemen's Coast; DeSantis And Haley Scramble To Become The Leading Alternative To Donald Trump; Death Toll Rises On The Ground In Gaza; Hollywood Goes Back To Work; Classic Song "Fast Car" Recognized As Song Of The Year. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired November 09, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Four hours of relief a day.

ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: ONE WORLD starts there now. The White House says that Israel will pause its offensive in northern Gaza for several hours

each day, so civilians can get to safety. Netanyahu says that doesn't mean a ceasefire is on the way.

GOLODRYGA: And sometimes, the higher the stakes, the higher the drama. Firing moments you need to see from the third U.S. Republican Presidential

debate.

ASHER: And later, Hollywood returns. After 118 days of back and forth negotiations, the actors have finally cut a deal.

GOLODRYGA: Hello everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. This is ONE WORLD. Let's get straight to our top story. The White House is saying that Israel has agreed to pause

military operations in northern Gaza for four hours each day, to allow civilians to flee the fighting.

This comes as tens of thousands of Palestinians are joining a growing exodus and evacuating to southern Gaza in an attempt to escape the

relentless bombing, and as the IDF intensifies its assault in the north, both in the air and on the ground.

GOLODRYGA: Still, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu insists there will be no ceasefire without the release of hostages held by Hamas. CNN's

Kevin Liptak joins us now live from the White House.

And Kevin, President Biden also says there is no possibility of a ceasefire right now but give us more background on this news that came, incidentally

not from Tel Aviv, and not from Israel, but from the White House.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, and you'll excuse me, there's a leaf blower in the background so that's the noise you're hearing.

But this news did come from the NSC Spokesman John Kirby who did say that Israel had agreed to these four-hour pauses daily. He specified that Israel

would provide a three hour heads up before the pause would begin.

And he said it was meant to allow humanitarian aid to come into Gaza, but also to allow civilians who are trying to flee, to get out, to try and open

these new humanitarian corridors to alleviate the civilian suffering that we've seen on the ground in Gaza. And he did cast this as a significant

first step for Israel, as it continues its assault on the enclave.

He said that it came after significant engagement by the United States, sort of up and down the chain, all the way up to President Biden, who we

know did speak to the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday, and did raise the need for these humanitarian pauses in the fighting.

And when we did hear from Biden today, he was at Joint Base Andrews departing for a trip to Illinois, he said that he is pushed for much longer

pauses, perhaps even longer than the three days that have been reported earlier in the week.

And that he said he had hoped that it would take much less time for Netanyahu to come around to an agreement on this. Because this has been a

real key priority for the White House, and for the Biden administration, is to establish these pauses.

We first heard from the Secretary of State Antony Blinken in late October, pushing this idea, and there had been this resistance on the part of the

Israelis, to agree to any sort of significant pause in the fighting, if it did not include a release of hostages.

And so, the big question is, what can be accomplished in those four hours, when it comes to the hostages. Because we had heard from American officials

that they would require a significant pause in the fighting, if they were to get out those 200 or so hostages.

Four hours and certainly less than that, but the hope is that perhaps, a smaller handful could come out in these pauses, as they proceed, over the

next several days.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, the U.S. also aiming to release 150 humanitarian trucks to make their way in, as well. Kevin Liptak, good job, speaking over that

leaf blower, which has found itself a permanent presence, at least during our interactions in a CNN interview. Thank you.

ASHER: All right, as the Israel-Hamas war rages into a second month, U.S. is stepping up its activity across the middle east, sending a fierce

warning to any non-state actor who may try to expand the conflict into a broader regional war.

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GOLODRYGA: In Syria, U.S. Fighter jets launched an airstrike on a weapon storage facility used by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. The goal

to prevent Iran's proxies from carrying out further attacks on U.S. Interest in the region.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, SPOKESMAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: This target last night was a weapons ammunition storage facility, so, we know that it had a

practical impact on their ability to arm these groups but also to send a strong signal in deterrence.

These groups have a choice to make, if they want to continue to attack our troops and interact in Syria, then they're going to have to face the

consequences for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: All right. And those Iranian-backed militia that Mr. Kirby just mentioned have attacked U.S. troops and American assets in both Syria and

Iraq, a staggering 41 times since October 17th. And on Wednesday, Houthi rebels also backed by Iran, by the way, shot down an unarmed U.S. Military

drone, off Yemen's coast, that's according to a defense official.

This follows U.S. intercepting Houthi cruise missiles and drones headed for Israel. For a closer look at all of this, I'm joined live by Natasha

Bertrand, at the Pentagon. So, Natasha, the U.S. has set military assets to the region, including warships. The goal here was to send a deterrence

message to Iran-backed militia. Are they getting the message?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Well, that's been the big question to the Pentagon in recent weeks, especially because this is

the second time the U.S. has launched those airstrikes on IRGC and affiliated groups weapons store -- or warehouses in Syria. And the attacks

have pretty much kept on coming ever since then.

And so, the question has been are these retaliatory airstrikes actually working. The administration seems to think that they are even though we are

continuing to see these attacks by these Iran-backed proxy groups against U.S. Forces in Syria and Iraq.

The attacks are being waged using drones, small rockets, and they are not always successful, in fact they're usually not successful. But they still

have resulted in quite a few injuries amongst service members, including several traumatic brain injuries.

And so, the U.S. feels that they have to retaliate in some way. And they are doing that by destroying, they say, IRGC -- Iran-backed stockpiles of

weaponry that they are using to conduct these attacks. B

But the question remains, whether this is a sustainable approach, because it is very cheap, of course, and easy, for these groups to launch these

kinds of drones in small rockets at U.S. bases and coalition bases across the region.

Whereas, for the U.S. to conduct these very large strikes, obviously, it is a more significant action in terms of the implications for the wider

regional tensions, and whether this will perhaps spiral and escalate even further.

That is something that the U.S. says they are seeking to avoid, and they say that the strikes are for that reason very limited self-defense strikes.

So, they say that they reserve the right, of course, to respond in the time and the place of their choosing.

But look, the administration getting a lot of pushback from some Republicans, especially, who say they should be doing more. But again, the

tensions are so high in the region right now, that they are choosing they say very specific targets to avoid things escalating and spiralling even

further.

ASHER: All right, Natasha Bertrand, live for us, thank you.

GOLODRYGA: The IDF says that it has secured a key Hamas stronghold in northern Gaza, after a ten-hour battle. CNN cannot verify that claim, but

we are getting a closer look at what Israeli soldiers are facing on the ground. CNN's Jeremy Diamond reports from Tel Aviv.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An Israeli armored vehicle advances to the Al Shati refugee camp but an ambush awaits. Moments

earlier, the same video shows a Hamas fighter armed with a rocket-propelled grenade, moving slowly from behind the rubble.

These are Hamas propaganda videos, from the perspective of its fighters. Showing Hamas militants appearing around buildings, and through the rubble,

before striking armored vehicles.

CNN has geolocated several videos released in recent days to northern Gaza, in Beit Hanoun, Al-Atatra and Al-Shati refugee camp, indicating Hamas is

likely still mounting attacks in areas Israeli forces entered over a week ago. The videos provide a limited window into the group's guerilla tactics

and the threats Israeli forces face as they move deeper into Gaza.

PETER LERNER, LIEUTENANT COLONEL, IDF SPOKESPERSON: As we're moving in, for fighting more and more close combat, urban combat type engagements.

DIAMOND (voice-over): The Israeli military says its forces have encircled and are now operating in the heart of Gaza City, where they face the

dangers of dense urban combat and a vast network of tunnels Hamas fighters are using to sneak up on Israeli forces.

LERNER: The nature of urban warfare is that, you know, they go down a tunnel and come up somewhere else.

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And that is exactly why we are moving slowly. We are not advancing. We are not rushing into this. We are taking strategic positions.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Israeli forces say they've destroyed 130 Hamas tunnel shafts like this one since launching their ground offensive.

LERNER: We're just scratching the surface of that.

DIAMOND (voice-over): But many more still remain. Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: All right, about last night, there were certainly some sharp attacks, including name-calling at the latest Republican presidential

debate on Wednesday. And get this, a couple of the candidates on stage even dared to take on Donald Trump ever so slightly. Just a little bit.

GOLODRYGA: I mean, just a little bit. But there were incremental attacks that we've seen over these past few debates. It was a smaller field than

previous debates, with just five contenders making it on stage, and Donald Trump once again opting not to participate. So, who stood out from the

pack? Here's CNN's Jeff Zeleny with the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On a raucous debate night in Miami, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and former

South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley scrambling to become the leading alternative to Donald Trump. DeSantis blaming the former president for

presiding over a party that endured major defeats Tuesday in Virginia, Kentucky and Ohio.

RON DESANTIS, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He said Republicans were going to get tired of winning. What we saw last night, I'm sick of

Republicans losing. Haley also imploring Republicans to turn the page.

NIKKI HALEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I think he was the right president at the right time. I don't think he's the right president

now. I think that he put us eight trillion dollars in debt and our kids are never going to forgive us for that.

ZELENY (voice-over): But two months before the first votes of the Republican Racer cast, the winner may not have been on the debate stage but

rather a few miles away, holding a competing rally in Hialeah.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think they're at a debate tonight. Nobody's talking about it.

ZELENY (voice-over): Trump holds a commanding lead in the primary fight, with time running out to slow his momentum. Still, a fierce exchange broke

out on China, the Middle East, abortion and more, with South Carolina Senator Tim Scott pushing his rivals to support a national 15-week abortion

ban.

TIM SCOTT, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would challenge both Nikki and Ron to join me at a 15-week limit. It is in our nation's best interest.

ZELENY (voice-over): Yet voters send a clear message on abortion rights Tuesday night in Ohio and Virginia. Haley called for a consensus.

NIKKI HALEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We don't need to divide America over this issue anymore.

ZELENY (voice-over): DeSantis pointed his finger at the anti-abortion movement for failing to make its case.

DESANTIS: You got to do a better job on these referenda. I think of all the stuff that's happened to the pro-life cause, they have been caught

flat-footed on these referenda and they have been losing the referenda.

ZELENY (voice-over): The debate was the first since Hamas attacked Israel October 7th. All candidates pledged support for the U.S.' long-time ally.

DESANTIS: Finish the job once and for all with these butchers, Hamas.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: America is here no matter what it is you need at any time to preserve the state of Israel.

ZELENY (voice-over): Haley and Scott placed blame for the brutal terror attack squarely on Iran.

HALEY: We need to be very clear-eyed to know there would be no Hamas without Iran.

SCOTT: You actually have to cut off the head of the snake, and the head of the snake is Iran.

ZELENY (voice-over): Some of the biggest flash points of the night came between Haley and Vivek Ramaswamy who accused her of rushing to war.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do you want Dick Cheney in three-inch heels?

ZELENY (voice-over): She wasted little time pushing back.

HALEY: I'd first like to say they're five-inch heels and I don't wear them unless you can run in them. The second thing that I will say is I wear

heels. They're not for a fashion statement. They're for ammunition.

ZELENY (voice-over): Later, with tensions inflamed in a discussion over TikTok in China, the attacks grew personal.

RAMASWAMY: In the last debate, she made fun of me for actually joining TikTok, while her own daughter was actually using the app for a long time.

So, you might want to take care of your family first.

HALEY: Leave my daughter out of your voice. You're just scum.

ZELENY (voice-over): Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie sought to rise above the fray, defending the U.S. for taking an active role in Israel

and Ukraine.

CHRISTIE: Let's remember the last time that we turned our back on a shooting war in Europe. It bought us just a couple of years and then

500,000 Americans were killed in Europe to defeat Hitler. This is not a choice.

ZELENY: So, it was a deeply substantive exchange on foreign policy, on social security reform, and much more. But it also had the feeling of an

academic exercise, given the fact that the man they're all trying to beat was not on stage. Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: All right, still to come here on ONE WORLD, a Palestinian in the U.S. reacts to what is unfolding in Gaza in his homeland. He says he keeps

hoping someone or something will end what he's calling the nightmare in Gaza.

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He joins us next.

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GOLODRYGA: On the ground in Gaza, the death toll is rising. The Palestinian Health Ministry in Ramallah says nearly 10,800 people have been

killed since Israel's conflict with Hamas began last month.

ASHER: And the U.N.'s human rights Commissioner says that since then, both Hamas and Israel have committed war crimes. A day later, the U.N. relief

chief had this warning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN GRIFFITHS, U.N. RELIEF CHIEF: War, indeed, is a virus that always wants to expand. And the current conflict is a wildfire that could consume

the region, that could spread, and that we will think these have been the good days when we see what may happen tomorrow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Our next guest grew up in Gaza, and his family still lives there. He lost more than a dozen relatives so far since the Israel-Hamas war

began. Hani Al-Madun is the Director of Philanthropy for the United Nations Agency that's in charge of helping provide medical supplies, food, water

and shelter, and other services to the enclave.

He writes in a CNN.com opinion piece that I encourage everybody watching this to read, "The unfolding catastrophe in Gaza raises critical questions

about the relevance of international humanitarian laws. Do they still matter? Do Palestinian lives matter to the world?"

Hani, thank you so much for being with us. I mean, it's hard to believe that this war has only been going on for just about a month, and already

we're seeing almost, almost 11,000 Palestinians dead in Gaza. A lot of people around the world, not just Palestinians, but people around the world

have had a really hard time with those sorts of numbers.

I know that you lost a lot of members of your extended family on the ground there. I know that it's really difficult for you, especially because you're

not there right now. I think I'm going to start by asking you the very question that you pose in this piece, "Do Palestinian lives matter?"

HANI ALMADHOUN, DIRECTOR OF PHILANTROPHY, U.N. RELIEF AND WORKS AGENCY U.S.A.: Yeah, they do to me, but not the ones with power and authority to

change the circumstances and save their lives. Unfortunately, too many good people I know, I love, I care for, are no longer with us.

[12:20:00]

And, you know, we're no longer talking about their dignity. You know, folks are not asking who is -- who's dead today. They ask who is still alive.

That's the reality that's in everybody's heart right now in Gaza. And my soul is really hurting right now because it's a lot and we have not had a

break to just analyze and count our losses. And unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be stopping anytime soon.

GOLODRYGA: Hany, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us and really open up to us about what you're experiencing personally, and

obviously how your family has been impacted with the loss of so many loved ones. Can you tell us a little bit about them?

ALMADHOUN: Yeah, so yeah, my sister-in-law, Safa, about two weeks ago lost her family. There was a bomb that took the entire family. The blast is so

vast, the body of her dad was never fully recovered. And about -- and I know this is tragic for anybody. Like you have to have a conscience to see

this and you're going to have to be a Palestinian, too.

These are real people. These are not stage actors. They're folks who are civilians. My cousin, maternal cousin, Raed, who is actually certified by

Israel to go work in Israel, so he's not a security threat. They cleared him to go work in that country, and still he got killed with his family in

that Jabalia blast.

The only surviving family member is his child, who went out, collected everybody's phone to charge it in the solar station nearby, four minutes

away. And the whole family is wiped out of the map, and it took days to figure out who actually died in that blast. And he doesn't deserve this.

He's not a political person.

As you may know from the article, my mom is hiding in northern Gaza. They have no way -- they have little food. It's very scarce and it's unfortunate

and heartbreaking. And it seems somehow it's -- became controversial to tell people, hey, ceasefire. It became nowhere. Like, it's a common sense,

but folks are not seeing it. Water became a basic demand.

You know, I work with UNRWA and through UNRWA USA, and we're operating at 20 percent capacity because of the fuel shortage. And you understand

there's a million displaced people. They need water.

They need food and all of that. Communication, electricity are all gone out of the window. And the staff is just trying to make sure, you know, people

get a loaf of bread that day or two liters of water.

And it's just insane that people who are civilians are hurting right now and nobody seems to feel their pain or recognize in it. And I know that,

you know, I've seen a lot of philanthropy toward under what you say as we should. But this is a lot larger than a humanitarian crisis. There needs to

be a political approach that doesn't seem to be promising right now.

ASHER: Hani, we talk a lot about the fact that in Gaza right now there's a lack of food, there's a lack of water, there's a lack of fuel, but I think

what really gets me is, you know, the emotional trauma that a lot of Palestinians are experiencing right now.

Anybody who's just lost one family member knows that can create a hole in your heart that lasts an entire lifetime, and that's if it ever heals at

all. Let alone the number of Palestinians that we've had on this program talking about losing entire family members, multiple family members in the

space of 10 seconds, you know, just when that airstrike hits.

Just give us a sense of, look, if this war drags on for a really long time, let's say months, perhaps, God forbid, even years, what is going to be left

of Gaza? And what will that do to the population psychologically?

ALMADHOUN: Unfortunately, you're very correct. You know, this is a big priority for us, the mental health of the Palestine refugees in Gaza. But

right now, we have about 50 psychological support and mental health support inside the shelters. It is not enough. We may need thousands and we may

need a hundred years to erase all the trauma people see.

You've heard so much about that humanitarian corridor. A lot of those kids walk past it, bodies, body parts disfigured. You cannot unsee that as a

child. I'm a grownup and I see a squirrel on the side of the road and it gets to me.

Imagine kids who are like eight or seven like Omar who went to buy bread to the family because there's a big line like six hours to get a couple of

loaves of bread. He's actually called the ambulance because he -- feel the house had a stench coming out from it and he -- when the ambulance showed

up, he went and walked with the ambulance and they found the human remain inside one of those bombed houses.

And he's traumatized, you know. This is a child, they know, he is my nephew and they don't deserve this -- the staff who do the relief. You know, our

colleagues, we lost 99 staff in Oranje. Those are people who wear the U.N. flag and they do abide by the U.N. mandate.

Ninety-nine of them are dead. Some of them show up to work despite everything. They bury a spouse, they bury a child, and the next day they're

trying to work and help the community where they can. I know these things I'm doing in the humanitarian side keep me sane.

[12:25:00]

But it's not enough, you know. We have to engage in many fronts, and I, you know, that's why you see I'm writing the op-ed. It's a lot and I want to

tell people this affects real people who have nothing to do with whatever the politicians are saying.

And unfortunately, I hope this does not last for long because Gaza, as we know it, the people, as we know, they will be changed forever. And I'm

afraid that there might be pushing them to the brink of or pushing them toward extremism.

ASHER: All right. Hany, thank you so, so much. I'm so sorry for the pain that you're experiencing right now. I want to end by just encouraging

anybody, if they have time today, just to go to cnn.com to read. There it is on your screen. "Do Palestinian lives matter to the world?"

It's a really heartfelt explanation of what people in Gaza are going through, and also through Hany's eyes as well, especially given that he is

an aid worker, but also somebody who has a lot of loved ones in Gaza right now. Hany, thank you so much for being with us.

GOLODRYGA: Thank you, Hany.

ALMADHOUN: Thank you for having me.

GOLODRYGA: Well, coming up for us, the debate over the next stage of the Israeli Hamas war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERGMAN: None of the strategic goals of this operation has been achieved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: We will speak with a former Israeli consular official and the differing U.S. and Israeli visions for a post-war Gaza.

ASHER: And later, a sigh of relief from Hollywood. The actors' strike is finally over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEONARD CLIFTON, ACTOR: Back to work, Hollywood. Finally, action.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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ASHER: All right, welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher.

GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. We are getting some reports of angst and anxiety from within the Biden administration, as Israeli forces seem to

show no signs of letting up their relentless bombardment of Gaza. As a civilian death toll in Gaza climbs, one senior administration official says

that it has created, quote, "a great moral anxiety".

This week, a divide emerged between Washington and Israel over the political endgame in Gaza after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu suggested

Israel would be in charge of Gaza's overall security for an indefinite period after the war. But U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is pushing

back, saying eventually the Palestinian Authority should run both Gaza and the West Bank.

GOLODRYGA: CNN's Nic Robertson has more on the offensive and the unease in Washington over how the military campaign is unfolding.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: As crushing as Israel's airstrikes targeting Hamas are militarily, they've also become

politically counterproductive. A crippling consequence, civilians, thousands of them have been killed. Israel under U.S. pressure for a

humanitarian pause.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): On the diplomatic front, we are working around the clock to provide the IDF with

international maneuvering room for continued military activity.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Netanyahu's plan to destroy Hamas is under threat. Time may be running out.

RONEN BERGMAN, JOURNALIST, "NEW YORK TIMES": The two clocks, one of how long will it take the IDF to finish what they see as their target? And

second, how longer the international community, specifically the U.S., would tolerate the continuation of this ground offensive? Those two are not

in sync.

RON BEN YISHAI, ISRAELI MILITARY ANALYST: I am afraid that the United States will succeed in stopping us from completing the work.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Both Ben Yishai and Bergman are respected veteran Israeli journalists. Both have been taken by the IDF to the front line in

Gaza.

BERGMAN: None of the strategic goals of this operation has been achieved. Hamas are not going out of the tunnels.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): According to the IDF, Hamas operatives killed, rockets captured, launch sites discovered. But according to Ben Yishai, at

a pace that both Netanyahu and Biden can stomach.

BEN YISHAI: They go very slowly because of two things. First of all, because of the Americans, to be honest. And secondly, because of the safety

of the soldiers.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Bergman says he's asked IDF officers if they can route Hamas from its tunnels.

BERGMAN: When you ask them, do you think that you can take out the whole of subterrain bunkers, they say, no, there's no way.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Meanwhile, Hamas' regular rocket salvos into Israel reinforce their bunker resilience is working, reminding Israelis of

their vulnerability to U.S. politics.

BEN YISHAI: This demand by the United States to make a humanitarian pose hits the deepest emotions of the Israelis. The prime minister and other

speakers for the government and the military need to be, by far, more transparent and direct with Israeli public.

ROBERTSON: A month into the war, Israel appears weakened by its own strength. Hamas, empowered by its tunnels, easily able to weaponize the

high civilian death toll. Their officials claim that at least one child is killed every 10 minutes, a shocking statistic that may buy them enough time

to fight another day. Nic Robertson, CNN, Sderot, Israel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Thanks to Nic for that report. Time now for The Exchange. Our next guest says that while Mr. Biden has been a steadfast supporter of

Israel, he can't ignore the increasingly critical voices coming from within his own party. Alon Pinkas, a former Israeli Consul General in New York,

wrote an editorial about how the U.S. and Israel have differing visions for a post-war Gaza. And he joins us now from Tel Aviv.

Olam, always great to have you on. I think what makes this even more complex is that it appears there are some differing visions on not just

what a post-war Gaza looks like, but what the current war being conducted looks like and the time frame in which Israel can conduct that war.

Are we reading too much into the language coming out of both sides, or is there really some, I don't want to say distance, but some disagreement on

how the current war is being conducted?

[12:35:00]

ALON PINKAS, FORMER ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL IN NEW YORK: Well, hi, Zain. Hi, Bianna. Good to be with you. No, we're not reading too much into the

language because the language reflects quite accurately a divergence of perception and a divergence of interests.

The U.S. has asked repeatedly for what it calls humanitarian pauses or localized ceasefires. The U.S. never asked Israel for a general

comprehensive ceasefire, both Secretary of State Blinken in Tokyo two days ago, and indeed President Biden himself, have made that clear, that

anything, any ceasefire or anything that leaves Hamas with residual political power and some military capabilities is unacceptable.

And so, Israel agrees with that. But in terms of the conduct of the war, the Americans are not clear on what Israel's vision of how long this would

take. You know, the scope is understandable. The scope is visible of the operation.

But how long it would take, also leads to the second question of the second issue that you raised and that is, okay, fine. You've done what you can.

You've destroyed the Hamas. You've obliterated Hamas. You've degraded its military and eliminated its political power.

Let's assume that is attainable. Then what? Who rules Gaza? And you take those two, the conduct and the longevity of the operation and visions or

ideas of the contours of a future Gaza, and you see a clear divergence of interests.

ASHER: Alon, I just want to get you to respond to something that our previous guest, Hany Almadhoun, just talked about. I think, about, I want

to say 15 minutes ago. He's a U.N. aid worker who has spent a lot of time in Gaza, but he's now based in the U.S. He talked about the fact that he's

lost about a dozen family members in Gaza.

I mean, people in Gaza have seen things that you and I cannot even imagine, right? He wrote a whole CNN.com piece about the fact that he believes that

Palestinian lives simply do not matter on the world stage.

There is some fear that Israel maybe, I don't want to say shooting itself in the foot or hurting at least an eventual peace process, if it does not

at least now try to make things a little bit easier for Palestinian civilians. Do you agree with that?

PINKAS: In general, yes, I do agree with that. And I think that Israel should make an extra effort not to do so, even at the expense of, you know,

of diminishing the ultimate military goal. That said, we all know that Hamas is controlling Gaza in a tyrannical way -- tyrannical way, that Hamas

is essentially occupying Gaza and holding 2.2 million people hostages. So, something has to give.

You have to understand the devastation and the shock and you know, the total dejection of October 7th hit very raw nerves here. And so, at this

point, most Israelis, and I think Mr. Ron Ben Yishai in that footage that you showed a moment ago, referred to that.

Most people are oblivious or indifferent to the Palestinian suffering. Now, take that into the international court of opinion. And yes, you know, I

won't go as far as to say that Israel is shooting itself in the foot because what needs to be done needs to be done according to officials.

But if Hamas' -- part of Hamas' strategic objective is to isolate Israel, expose Israel to a criticism and show Israel as excessively violent,

unfortunately that is succeeding. And I say unfortunately because people tend to forget the horrific, barbaric carnage of October 7th.

But yeah, going back to your point, I do agree with what he said. There is an indifference. I think that'll change in the next few days, partly

because of domestic pressures and partly because of the Biden administration's requests and pressures. But I, you know, unfortunately I

need to agree with that.

GOLODRYGA: Alon, could that also change if we finally start to see some of these hostages released?

[12:40:00]

We know that the head of Mossad and the CIA Director again are in Qatar meeting with officials. We have yet to see much progress on that front. And

from watching family members in some interviews in Israel, this continues to be their primary focus. What more are we learning about the status of

these negotiations?

PINKAS: You know, I'm sorry, but there's not much I know more than you do about the status of the hostages. I know that part of the military

operation includes gathering, collecting intelligence on their whereabouts and on their well-being.

Now, as for negotiations, you know, Israel will need to deal with a proposal once it's made. If there is a proposal, and I'm quoting what I

read just like what I saw just like you did, if there's a proposal for a 24-hour ceasefire or 36-hour ceasefire or call it humanitarian pause to

enable some kind of a hostages deal, whether it's two, 20, 22, or 100, the more the better, obviously, then I think Israel will take that very

seriously.

But as of now, if you look at the two trajectories, one is the negotiations in Qatar, among other places, and the second is the military operation,

it's as if they are not synced. The military operation is going forward as if the hostages are, or the issue, negotiations on the hostages rather, is

not taking place. And negotiations on the hostages, from what I understand is taking place, as if the military operation is subject to a cessation or

a ceasefire at any moment.

ASHER: Alon, since you were based in New York, and, of course, we had the Republican presidential debate yesterday, and we also had election night

here in the U.S. on Tuesday, I do want to ask you about U.S. politics as it pertains to Israel.

There has been so much splintering within the U.S. Democratic Party, just in terms of the best way to deal with Israel or to help or not help Israel.

I want to get your take on that and whether you think a Trump presidency or a Biden presidency would be better for Israel's security interests.

PINKAS: Well, these are two easy questions, right? On the first question, look, it's been 15 years since Mr. Netanyahu essentially undermined a

bipartisanship understanding on Israel. He has aligned himself squarely with the Republican Party. He has called his relations or his relations

with Donald Trump cannot be better described than a bromance. He has alienated the vast majority of the Democratic Party, including, by the way,

Joe Biden.

The fact that Joe Biden, as president, as he calls himself or describes himself the first Zionist president, aligned himself so closely with Israel

and is paying a domestic price. If you look at the polls, "The New York Times"- Siena Poll and the CNN Poll, and is paying a price, particularly

among the younger voters, college age or just after college age, should be a factor that influences Israel when it comes to heeding Mr. Biden's,

President Biden's advice.

Look, 75 percent of American Jews have -- vote for Democrats as a pattern, on average since it was measured first in 1952. So, the Democratic Party's

allegiance and alliance with Israel is as strong as it can be. That Israelis, particularly Mr. Netanyahu, aligned himself with the Republicans,

basically replaced American Jews and Israel's interests with those of evangelicals is, you know, an issue for a different and a deeper program.

Now, who is better?

GOLODRYGA: I'm sorry, Alon, we're just pressed for time, but I mean, to sum it all up, even the strategy didn't work for Netanyahu at the end

because we see how former President Trump has bad-mouthed him and trash- talked him after the fact that Netanyahu said that, yes, President Biden is the legitimate President of the United States. Alon Pinkas, we'll have to

leave it there. Former Israeli Consul General in New York, thank you.

ASHER: All right, I want to pause now to take a look back at history. As Jews all over the world remember a very somber event that happened this

day, today, 85 years ago.

[12:45:00]

And that was seen as a turning point to the events that led to the Holocaust. November 9, 1938 is known as Kristallnacht or the Night of

Broken Glass. That was when the Nazi regime launched a series of violent attacks on Jewish owned businesses, on Jewish homes and synagogues across

Germany.

GOLODRYGA: German Chancellor Olaf Scholz spoke today at a Berlin synagogue, which was the scene of one of those attacks 85 years ago. He

said he's ashamed and outraged at the recent wave of anti-Semitic incidents in Germany in the wake of the October 7th Hamas attack on Israel and

Israel's counteroffensive.

One additional somber statistic to consider, there were about 160,000 Jews in Berlin in 1933 when Hitler came to power. At the end of the war, in

1945, there were only 1400. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: Well, after almost four months, Hollywood is finally getting back to work. The Actors' Union reached an agreement with the big Hollywood

studios Wednesday night on a new contract.

ASHER: The Strike featured a major battle over AI-generated actors and bonuses from successful streaming shows. There was a lot of joy and a lot

of relief from a lot of actors in Hollywood that the strike is finally over. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSY PHILLIPS, ACTRESS: Oh, my God! Oh, my God! I like literally -- I can't believe -- I can't believe, I'm not -- I'm just alone for this. So

happy. I'm so happy.

CAITLIN DULANY, SAG-AFTRA NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE MEMBER: It was 100 percent worth it. One hundred percent worth it. It's a seminal deal and it's just

an amazing time for our union. It really is.

CLIFTON: Back to work, Hollywood. Finally. Action.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: For more on the deal and what it means for Hollywood. Let's bring in Camilla Bernal. I mean, seeing Busy Phillips, Camila, I mean, it's so

hard not to burst out laughing with her, just in terms of her reaction.

But more seriously -- more seriously though, there has been a lot of financial pain, not just for studios, but also, you think about the

millions of Americans that work adjacent to actors. So, I'm talking about makeup artists, set decorators, assistants, designers, those sorts of

people. They are now finally back to work, as well. Walk us through it.

[12:50:00]

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, that's a sentiment that we're hearing really from everyone, just how happy and ecstatic they are to

go back to work. A lot of people wanted this. They wanted the right deal, but of course they were all waiting to go back to work. And union leaders

are just describing this deal as something historic, something extraordinary.

And there's really different parts of it, one being the economics, right? We're getting higher wages, higher minimum wages for these actors, better

benefits, and also bonuses when it comes to streaming.

But then there's also the artificial intelligence protections. That's really one of the key points in this new contract. So, many of the actors

were extremely concerned about what AI could do to their work.

And so, this was something they were discussing and really negotiating on until the very last moment because it was such an important point, because

it is so unknown and it's so foreign really to everyone in the industry who was extremely concerned about what this could do to the future of their

work.

And so, we do not have the exact details of this contract just yet. They're going to be revealed to the board tomorrow and then made public to the

members who will then have to vote to ratify it. So, we're still not fully there. But of course, so many people who suffered for months are just happy

to hear from their union and their president about just how big this deal actually is.

ASHER: All right, Camila Bernal, live for us there in Los Angeles, thank you so much. Okay, 35 years after Tracy Chapman's first hit, she's getting

a brand-new honor. I love her music. Coming up, how Luke Combs' cover of her song, "Fast Car", is putting Chapman in the record books.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: Well, the Vatican says in some cases, transgender people and babies of same-sex couples can now be baptized in an apparent attempt to

make the Catholic Church more inclusive. In the ruling, the Vatican says a person who identifies as transgender can be baptized like any other adult

as long as there's no risk of causing scandal or disorientation to other Catholics.

ASHER: The Vatican also says that children of same-sex couples can be baptized as long as there is a well-founded hope that he or she will be

educated in the Catholic religion. The ruling also makes clear that people who live in homosexual relations are still committing a sin and that

baptism must come with repentance for such sins.

[12:55:00]

GOLODRYGA: And now to our favorite segment of the show.

ASHER: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Singer-Songwriter Tracy Chapman and her classic song "Fast Car" got some new recognition with a little help from Country Artist Luke Combs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: And the CMA award for the Song of the Year goes to "Fast Car", Tracy Chapman.

ASHER: And with that, you saw a little bit of history being made. Wednesday night, Chapman became the first black songwriter to ever win a

Country Music Association Song of the Year Award for Combs' cover of the song. So, it's been 56 years or so. No black person has ever won this

award.

In a statement, Chapman wrote that it's truly an honor for my song to be newly recognized 35 years after its debut.

GOLODRYGA: That song, her music is such pure magic. Luke Combs also won the single of the year at the CMAs. In his acceptance speech, he thanked

Chapman for writing what he called one of the best songs of all time. I have to agree with him. That song means so much to so many people.

ASHER: Right. I remember when I first heard that song, I had never heard anything like it. Never. That does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. I'm Zain

Asher.

GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Thanks so much for watching. "AMANPOUR" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END