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Biden Says Talks With Xi Were Some Of The Best Ever; Sprawling Hospital Complex In Gaza Becomes A Battleground For A Second Straight Day; Actor Dwayne Johnson Says He Considers Running For President If That's What The People Want. Aired 12-1p ET
Aired November 16, 2023 - 12:00 ET
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ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, welcome everyone. Good to be with you on this Thursday afternoon. ONE WORLD starts right now. Israel under
pressure to prove the Al-Shifa hospital doubles as a Hamas hideout. A senior Israeli defense official says that proof is on the way.
Also ahead, friend or foe. Biden says talks with Xi were some of the best ever, only to call him a dictator just hours later. And later, "The Rock"
on the Hill. Mega star Dwayne Johnson meets with lawmakers days after talking about a possible presidential run. Will he or won't he?
All right, coming to you live from New York, I am Zain Asher. Bianna is on assignment today. I want to get straight now to our top story. A sprawling
hospital complex in Gaza has become a battleground for a second straight day as Israel continues its massive raid on the enclave's largest hospital.
The IDF says that special forces are inside and are surrounding Al-Shifa Hospital conducting specific operations there. The director general of
hospitals in Gaza alleges that the IDF has been interrogating medical teams, asking questions of patients, as well.
On Wednesday, the IDF published a video of its operation presenting what it called evidence hidden behind an MRI machine, including AK-47s, body armor,
grenades, as well. But so far -- so far, Israel has not presented evidence of any sort of network of tunnels or underground chambers that would
indicate a possible Hamas command and control center. As Israel comes under a lot of pressure to provide proof of what it's long promised, the Israeli
prime minister advisor says that that is just a matter of time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK REGEV, SR. ADVISER TO THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I think you'll see more information in the coming hours and days. This was the first day of
our operation inside the hospital building. More will come. I have no doubt about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: The U.S. President seems to agree with Israeli intelligence, agrees with that assessment, saying that he's confident that there is Hamas
military apparatus underneath the hospital. I want you to listen to the president's senior advisor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: We're confident, based on our own intelligence analysis
that the basement areas of that hospital, underneath that hospital and the hospital itself, has been used, is being used by Hamas as a command and
control mode.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: CNN cannot independently verify Israel's claims, but Gaza's Hamas- run government media office accuses Israel of fabricating the evidence. I want to go straight to CNN's Nada Bashir, joining us live now from
Jerusalem.
Nada, a lot of pressure on Israel to prove what they have claimed, and that is that, beneath the Al-Shifa hospital, there is some kind of labyrinth,
some subterranean labyrinth of tunnels, possibly a command and control center run by Hamas. The question right now is where is the evidence of
that because a lot of the patients and all the people who are trapped inside this hospital are in dire need right now.
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, certainly mounting pressure on the Israeli military and the Israeli government to provide this evidence
that would in their eyes justify this military raid on the Al Shifa hospital, Gaza's largest hospital.
As we know hundreds of patients, hundreds of medical staff still inside the hospital and even before this raid, the situation in the hospital was
deteriorating by the hour. This was a hospital declared inoperational, one of many in northern Gaza unable to provide adequate care for patients
inside the hospital. Now, of course, increased concern over the security and safety of civilians in the hospital as this raid continues to go on.
Now, we've heard from the Israeli military today describing this raid as being targeted and contained but of course, getting information from inside
Al Shifa from the doctors, from the civilians inside the hospital has proven extremely difficult over the last day and a half because of the
communications blackout in and around northern Gaza.
We've been unable to speak to medical professionals on the ground on a regular basis. We did hear from doctors within the Al-Shifa in the early
hours of that raid on Wednesday morning describing the scene, describing the sounds of artillery shelling around the hospital.
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One journalist inside the hospital complex describing the walls of the hospital shaking as a result of the force of that shelling. Now, of course,
CNN does not have access to the Al Shifa hospital. We are unable to independently verify those reports, but certainly mounting concern from
humanitarian organizations across the board.
The World Health Organization, raising concerns over colleagues and partners on the ground. The Palestinian Red Crescent Society, saying it
hasn't been able to reach its colleagues on the ground. And as we know, there are hundreds of patients that require specialist care.
We saw those videos emerging. Some of the last videos that we really have seen from inside Al-Shifa just before the raid, showing the number of
premature and newborn babies. Those babies' patients would require specialist medical evacuations.
Of course, there is a concern around the security outside of the Al-Shifa hospital, whether it would even be possible to begin to think about moving
some of these patients. Many doctors telling us repeatedly now for days that this would simply be impossible.
Now, of course, there is also mounting concern. It has to be said of the situation in southern Gaza as well, as we know, civilians in northern Gaza
were warned to evacuate southwards. Now, we're beginning to see reports of leaflets being dropped in southern Gaza.
Again, CNN unable to independently verify we aren't on the ground there, but leaflets being dropped telling civilians in southern Gaza to find
shelters. So, mounting fears that Israel's ground incursion could begin to spread further southwards.
ASHER: All right, Nada Bashir, live for us there. Thank you so much. And as Nada just mentioned, while Israel has declared that the northern part of
Gaza is under its control, there are growing signs that a ground offensive in southern Gaza could come some point soon.
Leaflets were dropped on communities in eastern Khan Yunis, that's the largest city in southern Gaza, asking people to head towards known
shelters. So, they're being forced to evacuate. Again, aid organizations say that any Israeli move south could make an already difficult
humanitarian situation much, much worse at this point. point.
The Israeli army also said that it had gained operational control of Gaza Harbour. That's where the enclave's fleet of fishing vessels are
essentially based. The IDF is saying that the harbor had been used as a training facility for Hamas fighters. For more on Israel's military moves
in Gaza, as it tries to root out Hamas, I want to bring in CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Army Major General James Spider Marks. He joins
this live now from Virginia.
Thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it. I do want to start with what's going on at the Al-Shifa Hospital because it's one thing to
raid a hospital. It's another thing to then provide proof that beneath that hospital is a network, a labyrinth of tunnels run by a terrorist
organization.
This hospital is a really large complex. There's so many different buildings. Just walk us through how the IDF goes about finding -- I believe
they're looking for, the entrance to some of these tunnels perhaps. How do they provide that evidence that the world is desperately seeking at this
point in time?
JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, the operation can be described as very deliberate. The fact that the Israelis are in the
hospital means that they've created a safe zone around that as they conduct operations inside. They want to make sure more Hamas fighters cannot get
into that.
And of course, there's an appetite for validation, right? Everybody wants to know immediately what's going on. Bear in mind, this is an ongoing
military operation. Israeli soldiers are at risk. They are moving throughout the hospital. It could have Hamas fighters within that hospital.
And, oh, by the way, the tunnel network that exists, and the Israelis will demonstrate that it exists underneath the hospital, may in fact have
Israeli soldiers in those tunnels right now conducting operations.
So, there's not going to be a validation or a video that says here are the tunnels. And oh, by the way, here are a bunch of Israeli fighters that are
in those tunnels. That provides incredible intelligence to your enemy, to Hamas. So, we all have to be a little bit patient in order to get that type
of information, that intelligence that justifies the operation.
But I think it's safe to say at this point in -- that the IDF controls the hospital. Let's assume they control it in its entirety. This is a great
opportunity for the IDF to open that hospital back up. It's a legitimate hospital. It's got capacity. It's got capability. There's been significant
damage.
Open it back up and use that to provide the humanitarian support to Palestinians that they need. You can do both, you can conduct military
operations. You can try to break things and go capture bad people. And simultaneously, you can build back up.
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That's what needs to take place.
ASHER: Yeah, that's certainly a fair point. Just in terms of how Hamas has been sort of capitalizing on the last week or so, the IDF has said
repeatedly, gearing up to this moment, that yes, they believe that this hospital underneath it is some kind of Hamas hideout. They first surrounded
the hospital, and then they closed in.
Obviously, if there is this sort of Command and Control Center underneath the hospital, obviously Hamas would be preparing for the Israelis to come
in. How does that complicate things? The fact that the Israelis had to announce their plans ahead of time, obviously giving Hamas an opportunity
to prepare for their entrance.
Yeah, and that's the real point. In fact, you mentioned it up front. There have been leaflets that have been dropped and the Israelis are declaring
what their intentions are next. I mean, they are not -- they are hiding in plain sight. They are saying, this is where we're going to go next.
Because the balance that they are trying to achieve is, according to Palestinians, enough humanitarian support to create a corridor. You need to
get out of here because we, the IDF, are coming in and we're going to capture or kill everybody who's associated with Hamas.
In other words, it's a very brutal, ghastly fight that is ongoing right now, and they are declaring what they want to do. That hospital before the
Israelis got there probably was engaged in a significant gunfight or Hamas understood that they were going to lose that fight. And they surrendered
the hospital to the Israelis.
And then they showed the type of damage that took place, which was a necessary condition in order for the Israelis to achieve that, to achieve
the objective, which is to get into that hospital and now begin the hard work of demonstrating, rooting Hamas out and then demonstrating to the rest
of the world. This is what Hamas does. It wraps itself in Palestinians. It holds Palestinians hostage so that they can accomplish their bad deeds.
ASHER: In terms of the sort of overall long-term objective that Israel wants to achieve in this war, one of the things that has been talked about
is the fact that Hamas runs about 300 miles. I mean, these are intelligent guesses, right? Three hundred miles of tunnels underneath and around Gaza.
The Israelis have talked about the fact that they want to completely dismantle that system. Is that possible? We're talking about 300 miles of
this sort of complex spiderweb of tunnels. Is that possible to dismantle it completely?
MARKS: Well, anything's possible. But you're exactly correct. I don't know that it's probable that the entre tunnel complex will, number one, be
identified, and number two, to be either rendered safe or to be dismantled in its entirety. I mean, there are some real architectural challenges as
well, right? You start eliminating some of these tunnels and you've eliminated the coherence and the consistency of the terrain above and
buildings start to collapse.
The Israelis have a pretty good sense of where these tunnels are and what portions of those tunnels are being used by Hamas in terms of command and
control and storage facilities for weapon systems and ammunition and communications capabilities and additional weapon systems.
And currently, where the hostages, there must be an assumption that the hostages are being held in those tunnels. That's what complicates this
mission so much more -- is -- we're talking about the humanitarian challenge. We're talking about the hospitals. The discussion on hostages
seems to have been pushed to the side a little bit, right?
That's the key leverage that Hamas has right now and they want to hold on to those hostages and we have to assume that they're being moved about in
that tunnel system. So, your question, spot on, can it be done 100 percent? I would say no. Can it be accomplished where it's rendered safe and they
can invalidate some portions of it? Yes.
ASHER: All right, Spider Marks, always good to have you on the program. I appreciate your perspective. Thank you so much.
MARKS: Thank you so much.
ASHER: All right, let's step back for a moment just in terms of the events of today and to sort of talk about what led to all of this. Of course,
October 7th, from the eyes of one of the terrorists who carried out the murderous attacks in a CNN exclusive. Our Oren Liebermann has obtained body
cam footage that reveals the horror of that day.
Oren joins us live now from Tel Aviv. Oren, I know that for a lot of Israelis, it is really traumatic seeing images of what happened that day
and having to sort of relive over and over again what happened. But it's important that the world continues to see this. It's important that the
world doesn't forget, isn't it?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is and that's part of the reason this video was put out there and the reason that we were given the
opportunity to show some of this video. Many of the Hamas militants who crossed the border had body cam cameras on them.
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And when they went back across into Gaza, Hamas used that as their own propaganda. But not everybody. We were provided video from one of the body
cams that shows continuous 100 minutes from about 10 minutes before the attack all the way through until the GoPro starts rolling. And we have to
warn you that some of this video is very graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): An explosion before dawn on October 7th. The time is here and the attack is underway. Allahu Akbar, God is great, they chant
as they cross the breached fence. Go right, go right, go right, they say.
Less than two minutes later, they cross the second security fence. They are in Israel heading towards Akibbutz. The sun is up and a day that will
reshape the region has begun. This video comes from the body cam of one of the terrorists who took part in the attack. It was obtained exclusively by
CNN from the Israel Defense Forces.
For the first time, we also see video inside Hamas tunnels before the attack. It is a look into a network of tunnels with what appear to be
supplies stored in the darkness. Writing on the walls in Arabic says what's hidden is far worse.
Above ground, the gunman fires his first shots. Go on man, go on man, he screams. They stop on the way. More than a dozen militants gather here to
prepare for the next assault. One has several rocket-propelled grenades on his back.
Minutes later, a group advances across an open field, moving towards the village of Kisufim. The gunman charges the last bit and spots an Israeli
soldier on the ground. Others join in celebration. Moments later, he is more composed as he turns the camera on himself. He says his name and that
he's 24 years old. He's a father. He says he killed two Israeli soldiers. He asks God for victory and well-deserved martyrdom.
On motorbikes now, they keep advancing, moving together along empty Israeli roads, or nearly empty. The man cheers as he sees bodies on the road. His
is not the first wave. He rounds a corner. Here we have seen this place before among the first videos to come out after the attack.
This is dash cam video from a car on the same road moments earlier. The car approaches a group of militants who opened fire. The car coasts, its driver
almost certainly dead by now. It is just after 7:40 in the morning.
After a quick reload, the group approaches a military base near the kibbutz of Reim. For 65 minutes since crossing the Gaza fence, they have had nearly
free reign in Israel. The gunman closes the distance with a weapon he took from an Israeli soldier, opening fire and fire comes back. This man's part
of the attack comes to an end. The terror is just beginning.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIEBERMANN (on-camera): One thing that becomes clear in this video is how freely and how easily this group was able to move. At one point in the
video, which we had to watch many times as we put this together, they even ask, where are the soldiers? Apparently surprised that they didn't
encounter more resistance as they crossed the second border fence.
And that will be part of the investigation. Everyone we've spoken to here, from Israeli officials to the IDF, to even civilians here just hanging out,
know that there is an in-depth investigation coming to figure out what went wrong and how it went wrong so catastrophically. And Zain, it is very
evident in that video.
ASHER: Yes, some key questions that Netanyahu himself has to answer for. Oren Liebermann, live for us there. Thank you so much. That was a powerful
piece, by the way. All right, coming up. As the battle for Gaza rages, what happens after the fighting is done? We'll talk to a senior Palestinian
authority minister about that a little later. And a day after two of the most powerful men in the world met, there is good news, but old worries
still linger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Do I trust you? I trust but verify, as that old saying goes. That's where I am.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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ASHER: All right, U.S. President Joe Biden calls his meeting with Xi Jinping one of the most productive that the two have actually ever had. He
says they both agreed to restore communication between their two militaries and that Xi promised to crack down on the production of fentanyl, a deadly
ingredient in drugs sold in the U.S.
Despite that, one moment called everything into question. A reporter asked Joe Biden if he still believes that Xi Jinping is a dictator. I want you to
listen to how the President responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Mr. President, after today, would you still refer to President Xi as a dictator? This is a term that you used earlier this year.
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, look, he is. I mean, he's a dictator in the sense that he is the guy who runs a country that is a foreign country
based on a former government totally different than ours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: China's foreign ministry largely brushed off those comments. Meantime, the U.S. president says that it made it clear to Xi that he
expects no interference in Taiwan's 2024 election, one of the most contentious issues in U.S.-China relations. David Culver joins us live now
from San Francisco.
David, of course, Taiwan being pretty much the most sensitive issue between these two leaders, what changes now? What progress has been made on that
front, especially because the U.S. is going to continue to arm Taiwan as a deterrent?
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, this is one of those areas where it feels like it's going to be agree to disagree but
certainly how it's been portrayed in Chinese state media is really interesting this morning, Zain.
And that is showcasing what is a very strong-worded message from President Xi Jinping when it comes to Taiwan, essentially telling the U.S. not to arm
Taiwan anymore and to stay out of its business, and also saying very certainly that Taiwan will reunify with the mainland.
Of course, the Chinese Communist Party has never controlled Taiwan, but that's something that they are determined to move forward with. That aside,
it also feels very positive when you look at the headlines from how it's being portrayed in Chinese state media.
Overall, this meeting between these two leaders, and some are even reflecting on Chinese social media on the positive, more personal aspects
of it. For example, when President Biden showed President Xi a picture of him visiting San Francisco back in 1985, or complimenting President Xi's
Chinese-made car.
So, those are the type of things that are getting a lot more attention within China. Of course, the substance of this is going to see where the
agreements, the rhetoric that seems very kind and uplifting and positive will turn into action. And that's the question that remains. What will be
following all of these talks in China in particular when it comes to seen action and cracking down on Fentanyl, for example.
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And of course, the re-establishment of military communications, something that they're hoping will diffuse the many issues within the South China Sea
and the Taiwan Strait. But the attention today now shifts to the other main event and that is where we are right now, that's APEC. And, of course,
you've got 19 other Asia Pacific major economies that are coming here today.
They were very much clued in as to what was happening between China and the U.S. at those talks yesterday because it's pertinent to them. They need to
know regionally how it's going to impact them. And so, they're coming here with the hopes and expectations that will set the groundwork for more
substantive talks and something that perhaps for them could lead to a bit more stability certainly within the Asia Pacific. Zain.
ASHER: All right, David Culver, live for us there, thank you so much. All right, Donald Trump has a new rival in the key state of New Hampshire. CNN
actually just released some polling from the state. It shows that the former U.S. Ambassador, Nikki Haley, is the number two candidate for the
Republican nomination.
But as you can see, former President Trump still has more than twice the support that she does. New Hampshire, of course, is significant because
it's technically the first Republican primary. That vote set for January 23.
All right, still to come here on ONE WORLD, Russian military recruiters turn to prison to find fighters for the war in Ukraine. How convicted
killers got a chance to buy their freedom by using a gun.
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ASHER: All right, coming to you live from New York, I'm Zain Asher. You are, of course, watching ONE WORLD. There are so many, daily, even hourly
updates about the situation in Gaza that it's easy to forget that at some point -- at some point, this will all end and something must indeed come
next.
And even though right now, it is a fight between Israel and Hamas, whatever comes next will almost certainly involve the U.S. and the Arab world, as
well. U.S. officials have stated that they think the Palestinian Authority should at some point take control of Gaza. And Joe Biden has made it clear
that the end game must -- must include a two-state solution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I can't tell you how long it's going to last. But I can tell you, I don't think it ultimately ends until there's a two-state solution. I've
made it clear to the Israelis, I think it's a big mistake for them to think they're going to occupy Gaza and maintain Gaza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: All right, time now for The Exchange. You want to talk about how this ends as well as the role that the Palestinian Authority may or may not
have in all of that. Joining me live now is the Palestinian Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and expatriates, Dr. Amal Jadou. She's coming to us live
from the West Bank town of Ramallah. Dr. Jadou, thank you so much for being with us.
AMAL JADOU, DOCTOR, PALESTINIAN DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND EXPATRIATES: Thank you for having me, Zain.
ASHER: So, the numbers break my heart. Twelve hundred Israelis murdered, 11,000 Palestinians killed. The northern part of Gaza basically reduced to
dust at this point in time. There's no safe place in the entire enclave. Palestinian children without water, without food, no fuel basically in
Gaza. Most hospitals right now not running. We can't keep on coming back here every few years. We can't keep on coming back here. We have to stop
doing this to each other.
When you think about what the solution is, a lot of people talk about a two-state solution. Some people say it's on the brink of collapse at this
point in time. What is the realistic part -- path at this point to a two- state solution? Is there one, really, in your opinion?
JADOU: Well, Zain, I think that with everything that is happening, the only way out is a two-state solution because the amount of hatred because
of the metric that is basically being floated, you know, as a result of this conflict is tremendous. It's basically happening in Gaza. My heart
bleeds when I see these babies without the incubators or these children, you know, whose limbs are amputated, you know, dead bodies under the
rubble, and, you know, families wiped out of the registry.
Basically, it's extremely tough time. And to be honest with you, it's extremely difficult to think of the day after when we haven't reached the
day. It's as if we're telling Israel, go ahead and do whatever you want. And then the International Community will come to basically fix what you
have destroyed.
And the world has been trying to do that for so many times. I mean, one war after the other, and the world comes to do reconstruction in Gaza without
dealing with the root cause of this conflict. And that is the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian land and denying Palestinians their right to
self-determination.
The only way out is the creation of a Palestinian state in accordance with the international law and giving Palestinians their right to self-
determination to live freely like any other people in this world. So, you cannot talk about, you know, a solution now when we haven't reached the
day. Let's reach the day.
Let's, you know, what we're focused right now on, all of our diplomatic activity, the engagement with the international community, is to reach a
ceasefire, an immediate ceasefire. Obviously, my leadership and every Palestinian basically said that we are against the killing of civilians on
all sides, and we are empathetic, sympathetic to the suffering of all civilians on all sides.
And this is, you know, this bloodshed that is taking place in Gaza with more than 11,600 Palestinians being killed, 70 percent of them are women
and children. This crime, this massacre needs to end. And I believe that with the killing -- with killing of each life, with the loss of each life
today, basically, Israel is making this environment far more difficult.
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You know, it's killing the environment of peace, and we need to be engendering and, you know, trying to build an environment for peace.
Israel, really, is building an environment of war and problems.
ASHER: Doctor Jadou, you know, you talk about how we got here and of course a lot of people have, a lot of people around the world of course
have condemned the occupation, settlements, the storming multiple times of the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the enforced segregation essentially in the West Bank.
A lot of people have condemned all of those things.
But I think you will agree with me that none of that -- none of that could ever possibly justify what we saw on October 7th. And I think that from the
Israeli perspective, what many Israelis will tell you is that the attacks of October 7th were so uniquely horrific -- they were so uniquely horrific
that for a country that was formed out of the ashes, of the Holocaust, that personal safety and personal security of Israeli civilians is sacred in
that country. It is absolutely sacrosanct.
And there can never be -- just based on what Netanyahu has come out and said that there's not going to be any kind of ceasefire until there is a
solution in which the cornerstone is the absolute guarantee of safety for Israeli civilians. How do we collectively reach that point?
JADOU: Well, the solution basically is not, you know, by continuing to kill Palestinian civilians. That basically is not going to engender peace.
That's going to create more and more bloodshed, suffering, crimes. I mean, you know, we cannot do anything about what happened on the 7th of October,
but we can do a lot about what is going on with the continuous killing of civilians.
I mean, the, you know, we're talking about more than 5000 children, 3400 women, 600 elderly. So, we're talking about around 10,000 people who are
hardcore civilians. And it's extremely, you know, this is not how you -- this is not how we can create an environment for peace.
I believe that it's extremely important that the world comes together to stop this madness. And I don't think that, you know, that we can ensure
Israel security by, you know, by killing Palestinians, by committing massacres. I believe, I wholeheartedly believe, that's why I joined the
diplomatic corps actually, because I felt that only through diplomatic mechanisms, through dialogue and engagement, that we can resolve conflicts.
I believe that the only guarantor for Israel's peace is peace for the Palestinians and their ability to get their basic rights, the right to
self-determination and to live, like any other nation in this world, in peace and security. So basically, it's really important. that we focus on
giving Palestinians peace. After all, Palestinians are not only being targeted in Gaza Strip, also in the West Bank. The settlers' terror all
over the West Bank, the segregation of cities, one from the other, the targeting of civilians by settlers.
ASHER: Dr. Jadou, you bring up some really valid points. I just want to get this last question in because I am up against the clock. You bring up
some really valid points. And actually, a lot of the IDF spokespeople that we've had on the program, we've asked them on the idea of you know, in
terms of the bombing and the bombardment of Gaza, is Israel creating more terrorists, essentially, than it's trying to take out? That is a big
question.
Israel has said its goal is to root out Hamas. A lot of people question whether that's even possible, because Hamas isn't just a terrorist
organization, it's also an ideology, as well. They said its goal is to root out Hamas. Of course, though, at the end of this war, there will likely be
remnants of Hamas within Gaza. Just talk us through what happens next.
Some people have floated the idea of the Palestinian Authority taking over. Netanyahu has questioned whether the P.A. is up for the job. The U.S. seems
to believe that it certainly is. But either way, it would be a really difficult undertaking for the Palestinian Authority, especially given the
rivalry between Hamas and the P.A. and Fatah. Just give us your sense in terms of whether that is on the horizon, whether that's in the cards for
the Palestinian Authority.
JADOU: Well, Zain, thank you for also stressing out that Hamas is an ideology. We can destroy structures, we can destroy military capabilities,
but you cannot, you know, undermine an ideology. What basically, you know, what is important is to provide people with their rights and that will
basically, you know, undermine any kind of leanings towards using violence.
If you give people their rights and if you give them the right to self- determination, then what's the reason for them to use violence? This is extremely important. And, you know, we are under occupation and
international law actually allows for people under occupation to fight against that occupation.
Now, going back to your question, it's extremely important to say that West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem, you know, comprise the state of
Palestine.
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According to international law, the two states -- the Palestinian state will you know, include all these, you know, parts and their integral parts.
The Palestinian government has not left Gaza, basically. The health sector, the educational sector, all of the services, we have employees in Gaza.
They're our people. And it's, you know, they've--- so, the government has been there and we have ministers who are there. And basically, the solution
--
ASHER: Dr. Jadou, I'm so sorry, I am up against the clock. I am running out of time.
JADOU: I will say this, any solution will include Gaza as part of the Palestinian state.
ASHER: Dr. Jadou, Dr. Amal Jadou, Deputy Foreign Minister -- Minister, rather of Foreign Affairs for the Palestinian Authority, we are grateful
for your perspective and for coming on the show. Thank you so much. We'll be right back after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: Only four days into the job, and the new British Foreign Secretary has traveled to Ukraine on his very first official overseas trip. David
Cameron met with President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Kyiv on Thursday. Cameron said Britain will keep providing Ukraine with military and other support
for as long as it takes. From Kyiv, Mr. Cameron then visited the port city of Odesa where he toured a church damaged in a Russian strike. The top U.K.
diplomat touted the accomplishments of Ukraine's Navy by opening the export corridor on the Black Sea.
CNN's Anna Coren is following this visit. She joins us live now from Kyiv. Ukraine, of course, Anna, still a massive foreign policy priority for the
Brits.
ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, absolutely, as it should be for the world, Zain. We are 21 months into this war, since Russia invaded Ukraine
in February of last year. And Ukraine is really feeling neglected. There is no doubt about it. The world is distracted. Its attention is squarely on
the Middle East and no longer here in Ukraine.
And that is very alarming for people here, certainly for President Zelenskyy who met with David Cameron, Britain's new foreign secretary. And
he expressed his concern about the world's divided attention, how that doesn't serve anyone well and certainly not the Ukrainians. This comes at
an extremely difficult point in the war. As I say, the world's divided attention, how that doesn't serve anyone well and certainly not the
Ukrainians.
[12:45:00]
This comes at an extremely difficult point in the war. As I say, we are 21 months in. The world's interest is waning -- support is waning. There is
genuine fatigue and then of course you have this counter-offensive that has been going on for the past four months which just has not yielded the
results and the breakthroughs that the West was hoping that Ukraine would achieve.
On top of that you have mass casualties on the eastern and southern fronts. So, you know the timing of David Cameron' visit to Ukraine today -- it's
crucial. It's very important. It's certainly a shot in the arm for Ukrainians. You know, this is going to be a long war.
And certainly, we heard from David Cameron saying that Britain, which as I say has been a stalwart of support for Ukraine, will be here for the long
haul. They are going to give Ukraine the economic support, the moral support, and certainly the military support. And that is what Ukraine needs
more than ever right now, Zain.
ASHER: All right, Anna Coren, live for us there. Thank you so much. All right. So, one of the men convicted in the murder of a prominent Russian
journalist has been freed from prison. Kremlin critic Anna Politskovkaya was gunned down near her home in Moscow back in 2006. But as Fred Pleitgen
reports, a former Russian detective who helped orchestrate the killing has received a pardon after fighting in Ukraine. And he's not the only one.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDEN (voice-over): As Russia loses large amounts of soldiers on the front lines in Ukraine, the
Kremlin continues filling the ranks with convicts, pardoning and releasing even the most dangerous ones if they survive their tour of combat.
Sergey Khadji Kurbanov was sentenced to 20 years in prison in 2014 for organizing the high-profile killing of prominent journalist and Kremlin
critic Anna Politkovskaya who was gunned down in her apartment block in 2006. Now, Khadji Kurbanov has been pardoned after fighting in Ukraine, his
lawyer says. Politskovkaya's family and the paper she worked for "Novaya Gazeta", irate.
It is a monstrous fact of injustice and arbitrariness, an insult to the memory of a person killed for their beliefs and for carrying out their
professional duty," they wrote in a statement. There are others. Vladislav Kanyus was sentenced to 17 years in jail for brutally murdering his
girlfriend and ordered to pay compensation to the victim's family, Russian media reports. He was also pardoned after fighting in Ukraine and doesn't
even have to pay the compensation, the Kremlin defending the decision.
There is a certain practice that is being implemented, Putin spokesman says. To my knowledge, there are no exceptions to this practice. More
precisely, there are exceptions, but they do not relate to the topic of the resonance of this or that case. The Wagner private military company first
started using convicts on the battlefields in Ukraine last year. Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin traveling to Russian jails to recruit inmates.
I spend more ammunition than was ever spent in Stalingrad, he said at the time. First sin is deserting. No one leave the front. No one surrenders.
Even after Prigozhin was killed in a plane crash in August, Russia continues large-scale recruitment of prison inmates. Russian leader
Vladimir Putin even included some in a moment of silence for fallen soldiers.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We are all people. Everyone can make some mistakes. They once made them. But they gave their
lives for their motherland and atoned for their guilt in full.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): And that amnesty also extends to killers in Russia who can prevent doing time by killing even more in Ukraine. Fred Pleitgen,
CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: All right, still to come here on ONE WORLD is a world-famous film star set to rock the U.S. presidential race. I couldn't resist. The "Fast
and Furious" campaign developments when we come back.
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[12:50:00]
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ASHER: All right, the threat of a U.S. government shutdown this weekend has officially been taken off the table. The U.S. Senate, as expected, has
passed the House plan to keep Washington funded through the new year. The House approved the bill on Tuesday over the objections of a group of
hardline Republicans. It needed the votes of Democrats to pass. President Biden is expected to sign the bill soon.
Also on Capitol Hill, action film star Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson met with Senate leaders about the need to boost military equipment. But during a
photo op, an entirely different issue seemed to be on everybody's mind. The "Fast and Furious" star did not answer the fast and furious questions about
a possible presidential run, but he has addressed the issue before. As Tom Foreman reports, the idea of a "Rock" in the White House is perhaps not as
far-fetched as it sounds.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Blasting into a presidential election in which polls say many voters don't like either main candidate,
Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, actor, wrestler, superstar, is hinting at a run.
DWAYNE "THE ROCK" JOHNSON, ACTOR: If that's truly what the people want then and of course, I will consider it.
FOREMAN (voice-over): If he does, he'd follow former President Donald Trump and dozens of other celebrities who have considered, tried, and
sometimes succeeded in spinning their fame into political gold. The one he might most want to study? Ronald Reagan who used his skills from film, TV
and radio to pick off one political challenger after another. Proving that his actor's sense of timing --
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: There you go again.
FOREMAN (voice-over): -- and humor --
REAGAN: I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience.
FOREMAN: Could carry him all the way to the White House and with a robust agenda popular with his party, keep him there.
REAGAN: God bless you and God bless America.
FOREMAN (voice-over): That pattern has been repeated at lower levels. Fred Grandy turned nine years on the "Love Boat" into eight years as a
congressman from Iowa. Sonny Bono was a pop star, then a mayor, then a congressman from California until his untimely and accidental death.
AL FRANKEN, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: But I don't think that's how it works.
[12:55:00]
FOREMAN (voice-over): Which Minnesota senator started out as a comedian?
FRANKEN: That's right. Me. Al Franken.
FOREMAN (voice-over): And of course, Arnold Schwarzenegger pressed his senator started out as a comedian? That's right. Me. Al Franken. And of
course, Arnold Schwarzenegger pressed his strongman persona into eight years as governor of California.
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR: I want to be the governor for the people. I want to represent everybody.
FOREMAN (voice-over): So, is "The Rock" ready to enter the political jungle? He's tipped his hat to a presidential run before, although always
with hesitation.
JOHNSON: I love our country and everyone in it. I also love being a daddy. And that's the most important thing to me is being a daddy.
FOREMAN: We don't know if he would be a good president. We usually don't know when any celebrity runs if they will be good at the job. But political
strategists know if they're already famous, likeable, and generally considered trustworthy by the public, those are big steps toward being
electable. Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: So, maybe we will see "The Rock" in the White House. But thank you so much for watching ONE WORLD. I am Zain Asher. "AMANPOUR" is up next.
You're watching CNN.
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