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One World with Zain Asher

President Joe Biden Honors Three American Service Members Killed In Jordan Attack; Ukraine's Top Military Commander Zaluzhny Pens An Opinion Piece For CNN.com; Mother of Michigan School Shooter Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter; Europe's Most Dangerous Fugitives Captured By Police; CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister Interviews Legendary Music Mogul Clive Davis. Aired 12-12:45p ET

Aired February 02, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: If Ukraine wants to win, then things need to change. Words from the nation's own top general in a CNN

exclusive. "One World' starts right now. Friend or foe of Zelenskyy, see what Ukraine's army chief says about the war in a new op-ed, as sources say

he's already been fired.

Also ahead, Nairobi blaze. We don't know the cause of the explosion, but we know that the permit for construction was illegal, and the plant where the

blast occurred was unlicensed. A brand new report from the scene.

And he doesn't read music or play an instrument, but he is one of the biggest stars in the industry. Clive Davis reflects on his legacy just days

before music's biggest night.

Hello everyone, live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Zain is off today. You are watching "One World". It is the gravest of responsibilities

for a sitting U.S. President, witnessing a dignified transfer. That is a return home of soldiers who have made the ultimate sacrifice for their

country.

President Joe Biden is in Delaware, where next hour he will honor three American service members who were killed in Jordan over the weekend.

Sergeant William Rivers, Specialist Kennedy Sanders, and Specialist Brianna Moffat died in a drone strike on Sunday. In just a few minutes, President

Biden is expected to meet with their families. And we'll have a lot more of that coming up.

And now to a CNN Exclusive. A stark warning from Ukraine's top military commander. We're talking about Valerii Zaluzhny, the military's top

commander-in-chief who penned an opinion piece for CNN.com. The general says that it's time Ukraine's military embraced new military technology and

learned to do more with less.

In the article, he puts it simply, the design of war has changed. Zaluzhny wrote the piece before rumors of his imminent firing began to surface.

Let's bring in Fred Pleitgen to give us a perspective on the general's article.

It is interesting, Fred, that the general being very blunt about his views on the state of the war is what initially got him into trouble with

President Zelenskyy as tensions continued between these two over the past few months. Now, he appears to be on his way out and still speaking his

mind about the direction of this war. Tell us more about this piece.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, very much speaking his mind. And I think that this essay is really one that is

extremely interesting, also because Valerii Zaluzhny, the top general, he's been running the campaign to try and oust the Russians of who, of course,

are assaulting Ukraine since the very beginning, since the Russians first invaded here.

And of course, he's seen all the nuances of this war and also how technology has changed this war as well. And I think there's two things

that are absolutely key to Valerii Zaluzhny's thinking. And they are that Ukraine is both out-gunned and outmanned.

And one of the key things that he wrote in this op-ed is that look, the Ukrainians need to come to terms with the fact that they might be getting a

lot less weapons from their partners in the future as he puts it, as those partners deal with their own internal political issues, possibly talking

about the United States, where of course further military aid to Ukraine currently hangs in the balance.

And that's where Zaluzhny then says that he believes only modern technology can help the Ukrainians overcome that and level the playing field. He talks

about unmanned systems on land, in the air and of course at sea as well and that first and foremost means drones.

He believed that that is the way that the Ukrainians can really hurt the Russians. I want to read you one quote from it. He says, quote, "Attack

operations can have psychological objectives and here, technology boasts an undoubted superiority over tradition."

In other words, possibly using drone operators who are not on the front lines rather than troops on the front lines, which of course can cause a

lot of casualty among Ukrainians who already have fewer soldiers on the front lines than the Russians do at this point in time.

Another thing that he said, and I thought this was really interesting, is how to embed all of this in the Ukrainian military. He writes, quote, "In

2024, we must focus our main efforts in three areas, introducing a new philosophy of training and warfare, which takes account of restrictions and

assets and how they can be deployed."

In other words, coming to terms with the fact that they have these restricted assets, fewer shells, for instance, on the battlefield right

now, and trying to make up for that with this new use of technology and embedding that into their military doctrine. Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, you talked about how much more nimble and cheaper, relatively speaking, these drones can be.

[12:05:00]

Also notable that he mentioned the sanctions that have been leveled against Russia and thus far have not been as effective as many in the West had

hoped.

Russia's economy sort of chugging along now in wartime footing. The IMF estimating that it will, in fact, grow faster this year than had previously

expected. I do want to ask you in terms of who a replacement may be. I know you spent time with one of them, and that is Kyrylo Budanov. He is the

Defense Intelligence Director.

A very young man, very ambitious, and has been behind some of the military's more successful strikes there in the Black Sea and also deep

within Russia. He also is a bit more of a risk taker. Give us a sense of who is better suited and who you think from what your sources tell you will

likely be the replacement of Zaluzhny. I know it's between him and another man.

PLEITGEN: Yeah, first of all, I think you're absolutely right that Budanov is definitely one of the people who is very high up in the sort of ranking

of those who might replace Valerii Zaluzhny. Of course, right now we are still in the sort of holding pattern after it came out from various sources

that there was apparently a meeting between Valerii Zaluzhny and President Zelenskyy, where President Zelenskyy told, look, he's going to get fired,

but we are still waiting for that presidential decree.

So, right now really is an interesting time where we believe that possibly in the coming hours, we will hear who the replacement will be. One of them

is indeed possibly Kyrylo Budanov, who as you said is certainly someone who's seen as a bit of a risk taker, but also someone who's been extremely

successful at hurting the Russians in many ways, also behind enemy lines.

In fact, of course, yesterday we had that spectacular video, if you will, of the Ukrainians saying that they sank a Russian warship using seaborne

drones, and the agency behind that is the one that is headed by Kyrylo Budanov, the military intelligence director.

Another one who is in the running is the commander of the land forces, Oleksandr Syrskyi. He was also one of those who was very much at the

forefront of defending Kyiv when the Russians first invaded.

Of course, many believe that that was a brilliant defense operation that the Ukrainians put on there, taking the fights to the Russians, stopping

Russian columns that were approaching Kyiv. He definitely made a name for himself there.

He most recently has been spending most of his time in the east of the country, especially defending Bakhmut, defending places like Kremlin. A

very difficult situation there for the Ukrainians, but he's certainly someone who is also very respected by the troops, although I would say that

Zaluzhny definitely, by far, is the most respected general and officer of the Ukrainian military. His trust ratings in a recent poll were around 88

percent, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Wow, also, a mixed bag in terms of hopeful news for funding for Ukraine this week. They did get the green light from the E.U. with some $54

billion dollars over the next four years.

Pledge to the country, obviously still waiting to see what happens in Washington with the nearly $60 billion set for aid in Ukraine. That has yet

to be done. Fred Pleitgen in Kyiv, thank you so much. And you can read the entire article by the Ukrainian Army Chief on our website. You can find it

at cnn.com.

Well, the U.S. has slapped sanctions on four Israelis, saying that they had engaged in violent acts against Palestinians in the West Bank. The

sanctions come amid a reported rise in settler violence there. Prime Minister Netanyahu's office responded by saying that Israel punishes law

breakers, so the sanctions are unnecessary.

And court records do show that at least one of the sanctioned men had been convicted of assault. But CNN could not find any indication the other three

men were convicted of any crime. U.S. officials say they are pressing Israel to do more to tamp down on settler violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW MILLER, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: I will say we have had some very frank conversations with them about extremist settler violence.

Over the past month, six weeks, two months, we have seen the level of extremist settler violence come down somewhat, not come down enough. We

want to see more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Nic Robertson joins us from Tel Aviv with more on this. So Nic, on the one hand, unprecedented case of the U.S. government targeting

individual Israelis, though there are some who are skeptical that this may be more of a symbolic move than anything else. Talk about the implications

involved with these sanctions now against foremen.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, I think the implications, I think, go more -- broader than the effect that they'll have

on the ground here. I mean, obviously, they're intended to signal politically to Prime Minister Netanyahu that some of his government

bedfellows, the leader of the settlers, if you will, Bezalel Smotrich, is not what the United States would want to see.

That sort of rhetoric and that sort of leadership that they would view enable some of these settlers to perpetrate these acts of aggression on

Palestinians in the West Bank.

[12:10:00]

Those attacks really spiked right after October 7th. They tripled over the previous, you know, months of attacks by settlers in the West Bank. So, I

think there's a political message for the Netanyahu government.

There's a warning that this really shouldn't happen, that this violence by settlers will worsen the potential for violence and an outbreak of violence

in the West Bank which will make it much harder to get a deal in Gaza and potentially destabilize the region.

And I think there's that domestic pressure on President Biden who clearly recognizes that a younger progressive part of his potential electorate will

not be motivated to come out and support him in elections this year because they don't like what's happening in Gaza.

And then there's the pressure from regional partners like Saudi Arabia and Jordan, who behind the scenes have a strong diplomatic message, which is,

look, if you're not going to do more over Gaza, then at least plant red flags for the Israeli government to understand.

These are lines, red lines that shouldn't be crossed, that if you don't say more about settler violence, then by silence, you will allow it to happen

more and all the destabilizing effects that can come for that.

So, I think it has multiple, multiple messages for these four, though. You know, clearly they can't now travel to the United States, clearly they

can't transit funds through U.S. bank accounts, but other than that it may not have a great deal of impact on them, personally.

GOLODRYGA: And just to be clear, addressing the increase in rise in settler violence and some of those extremists who seem to be embracing

parts of it in the current government has been an issue and a wedge between these two countries before October 7th attacks. Needless to say, this is a

big step though from the U.S. government. Nic Robertson in Tel Aviv, thank you.

Well, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin says Washington is preparing a multi-tiered response to the drone attack in Jordan last weekend that

killed three American soldiers. And he adds that it's a dangerous moment in the Middle East right now. Iran denies any role in that attack, but the

country's President warns Tehran won't sit on the sidelines if it is provoked.

UNKNOWN: We have said many times we will not initiate any war, but if anyone wants to bully, Iran will respond firmly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: And in just the last few minutes we heard from the Treasury Department about new sanctions on Iran's drone and cyber programs. The

Treasury Department cited alleged front companies in Hong Kong and an Iranian subsidiary for allegedly supporting Iran's AUV program and missile

production.

Well, right now, the U.S. President's attention is not focused on Iran, but on the soldiers America lost over the weekend and the loved ones they left

behind. Any moment now, President Biden is set to meet with the families of those fallen U.S. service members. The next hour, he'll attend the

dignified transfer of their remains back to Dover Air Force Base, where he will also be joined by the Secretary of Defense.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joins me now from the White House. And Arlette, this is one of those moments where the nation really does focus on the President's

strengths, and that is being a Consular-in-Chief, not only because of the great loss and suffering he's experienced in his family, as well, but the

way he's been able to convey it to those in time of need.

We saw a video earlier this week where he spoke to the family of one of those service members who had been killed. He'll be spending some more time

with them today. What can we expect to see?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, this really is one of the most solemn duties a President has as Commander-in-Chief, and

President Biden will be on hand for the dignified transfer of those three U.S. service members who were killed in a drone attack in Jordan just last

Sunday.

The President arrived a short while ago at Dover Air Force Base, along with his wife, First Lady Jill Biden. And now, they are set to meet one-on-one

with the families of those three fallen service members. That includes the families of Sergeant William Rivers, as well as two Army specialists,

Kennedy Sanders and Brianna Moffitt.

Both Sanders and Moffitt were posthumously promoted to the rank of sergeants. That is something President Biden shared himself in a phone call

with the family of Kennedy Sanders on Tuesday. But the President now has about a little over an hour on his schedule to meet one-on-one, hear

directly from these families about their concerns, but also get to hear some of the stories of their loved ones.

So often, President Biden has used these moments to try to connect with the families by talking about his own experiences with grief, the loss of his

baby girl and first wife in a car accident when he was just elected Senator when he was merely 29 years old, and then also the death of his son, Bo

Biden, who had passed away from brain cancer.

[12:15:00]

Now, this is the second dignified transfer the president will attend. He attended one back in 2021 after 13 U.S. service members were killed in

Afghanistan. Those meetings with the families were quite raw with emotion and anger.

One thing that the President said in his phone calls with these families is he gauged their feelings about whether they wanted him on hand for this

dignified transfer today, and all three accepted. So, today the focus will solely be on trying to comfort these families as the remains of their loved

ones are back in U.S. soil.

GOLODRYGA: Of course, our thoughts remain with these three families and for the service that their family members, ultimate service they gave for

this country. Arlette Saenz, thank you so much.

Well, coming up for us, a truck carrying gas exploded into this huge fireball in Nairobi, killing at least three people and injuring hundreds of

others. We'll hear from eyewitnesses to the tragedy up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: In Nairobi, Kenya, a huge gas explosion has killed at least three people and injured hundreds of others. The Kenyan government is

lashing out at the unlicensed company involved in the deadly blast and says it will no longer be able to operate in the wake of the tragedy. CNN's

Larry Madowo has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bianna, we don't know the cause of the explosion that started here, but we know that it was illegal and

unlicensed. In fact, the Energy and Petroleum Regulatory Authority of Kenya says the construction permit was applied for three times last year and

denied three times for safety reasons.

MADOWO (voice-over): A huge ball of fire ignited over Nairobi's night sky. The screams of on-lookers piercing through the sound of flames. Emergency

workers raced into the scene after a gas truck exploded at what officials are calling an unlicensed plant late Thursday evening, burning down a

warehouse and damaging surrounding homes. The tears of this woman falling onto a lost loved one. Multiple dead with hundreds of others wounded.

EDWIN MACHIO, EXPLOSION SURVIVOR (through translator): The fire caught up with me from almost one kilometer away as I was escaping. The flames from

the explosion knocked me down and burnt me on my neck and back as you can see.

MADOWO (voice-over): Nairobi police are calling it a crime scene and opened an investigation on Friday.

[12:20:00]

Nearby residents watching in silent shock. As crime investigators dig through the ash that less than 24 hours ago were their homes. Businesses

hollowed out. The scars of the flames burned in these shop walls. The extent of the damage spreading for miles.

MADOWO: The gas explosion burned down everything in its wake, just trucks, several structures, several hundred yards in every direction. One of the

sixth floor rooftop, almost 400 yards away, broke down this wall, and most dramatic of all, a car that was blasted all this way. Parts of the car

here, the rest of it strewn all across this area, and we're just a mile away from Kenya's main airport as we see a plane landing there.

MADOWO (voice-over): Residents of that building telling me of their frantic escape.

JEREMIAH NGESA, EXPLOSION SURVIVOR: We -- down and the fire on top of us. So, the gate was closed but there was a stampede. We hurriedly tried to get

out. I think very many people were actually injured at that moment.

MADOWO (voice-over): Government officials already dubbing the incident as a consequence of corruption, vowing to shut down the unlicensed company who

was operating inside the cooking gas filling plant.

ISAAC MWAURA, KENYAN GOVERNMENT SPOKESPERSON: It is totally immoral for one to risk lives of fellow Kenyans just for profit, mere profiteering. It

is not acceptable for such facilities to be resident within residential areas because these are innocent hustlers who are going through their

businesses on a daily basis.

Rebuilding the damage could take months or even years. But in the hours ahead, families now having to face their reality of grief.

MADOWO: Bianna, there are so many cars that were blown up in this explosion. This is one of them that's getting pulled away here. The most

extraordinary thing having been in this scene is that if the explosion happened during the day, all these people you see here live here.

So, the actual devastation would have been unspeakable. It happened just after 11 P.M., so there were fewer people on the streets. And that's maybe

why the number of dead is not that high, even though the number of the wounded is significant. This is a residential area. This gas plant should

not have been here in the first place, Bianna.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Thanks to Larry Madowa for that really important report. Well, coming up for us, the mother of Michigan teen shooter, Ethan Crumbley, was

back on the stand, and this time she faced the prosecution. What we're learning from her trial, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: Welcome back. The mother of convicted school shooter Ethan Crumbley was back on the stand again today. This time she was facing the

prosecution.

Jennifer Crumbley is accused of involuntary manslaughter. Prosecutors argue that she and her husband acted with gross negligence by allowing their son

to have a gun and failing to get him mental health treatment despite warning signs. Earlier, prosecutors asked Crumbley how Ethan came to have

the deadly weapon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: That gun was gifted by you and your husband to your son on November 26th.

JENNIFER CRUMBLEY, MOTHER OF CONVICTED SCHOOL SHOOTER: Describe gifted.

UNKNOWN: How about when you posted on Instagram his new Christmas gift?

J. CRUMBLEY: Correct. And I explained yesterday that it was for him to use at the shooting range. We didn't just hand him a gun as a here you go, son.

It was something he could use when we went to the range as a family together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: The defense rested its case in the last hour. So, let's get more on this from CNN's Jean Casarez, who's been following this for us. So

Jean, we heard a very brief cross-examination by the prosecution today. Was that usual? Is that what you expected? And what did you make of it?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think most of us expected it would go on for the most of the day with just poking holes into every little nook

and cranny. But it was relatively swift. And the prosecution has to believe they planned their questions in advance, that this is what was needed to

show that gross negligence.

But the big question, and this is precedent-setting in the United States, should a parent, should Jennifer Crumbley, that mother, be convicted of

homicide? And the best witness to take the stand in all of that? Well, the defense believes it's Jennifer Crumbley, the defendant herself.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

J. CRUMBLEY: That was the hardest thing I had to stomach is that my child harmed and killed other people.

CASAREZ (voice-over): The mother of the Oxford Michigan shooter who killed four high school students in 2021 for the first time defending herself in

court. I've asked myself if I would do anything differently and I wouldn't know. If you could change what happened, would you? Oh, absolutely. I wish

he would have killed us instead.

CASAREZ (voice-over): Jennifer Crumbley charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter after she and her husband got a gun for their 15-

year-old son days before the massacre. She has pleaded not guilty and appears to be shifting blame to her husband in her testimony.

UNKNOWN: Who is responsible for storing the gun?

J. CRUMBLEY: My husband is.

UNKNOWN: Okay, explain why you say he's responsible for that role.

J. CRUMBLEY: I just didn't feel comfortable being in charge of that. It was more of his thing. So, I let him handle that.

CASAREZ (voice-over): Crumbley maintained she had no reason to believe her son was a danger to anyone else.

J. CRUMBLEY: As a parent, you spend your whole -- your whole life trying to protect your child -- your child from other dangers. You never -- you

never would think you have to protect your child from harming somebody else. That's what -- that's what blew my mind.

CASAREZ (voice-over): She recounted the moment her husband called, telling her the gun was missing.

J. CRUMBLEY (voice-over): Instantly, it just, I'm like, oh my gosh, he's got the gun. I didn't actually think he was at the school shooting it. I

thought maybe he walked home and got the gun and was in the field by the school shooting. I just -- I didn't imagine my son actually going into a

school shooting.

And then when we got more updates, I was like, oh my gosh, he's a school shooter. He's going to kill himself because in my mind, that's what school

shooters have done. They've killed themselves after. So, I yelled in my talk to text, Ethan, don't do it, cause I thought he was going to kill

himself.

CASAREZ (voice-over): Revealed in court before Crumbley took the stand, journal entries of the shooter just days before he opened fire, killing

four classmates.

[12:30:00]

He writes, "I have zero help for my mental problems and it's causing me to shoot up the effing school. My parents won't listen to me about help or a

therapist." The journal seen here was found in the shooter's backpack that he brought with him that morning, spilled out on the school's bathroom

floor. However, Jennifer Crumbly testified her son never asked her to get help for mental health issues.

UNKNOWN: Do you recall there ever being a time where he asked you to go to a doctor or to get help and you said no?

J. CRUMBLEY: No.

UNKNOWN: Or left it?

J. CRUMBLEY: No. There was a couple of times where Ethan had expressed anxiety over taking tests, anxiety about what he was going to do after high

school, but not to a level where I felt he needed to go see a psychiatrist or a mental health professional right away. No.

CASAREZ (voice-over): Crumbley described threats she says she and her husband received after the shooting.

J. CRUMBLEY: I was feeling pretty scared.

UNKNOWN: Okay scared of what?

J. CRUMBLEY: Well, scared that somebody might hurt us.

UNKNOWN: The defense also attempted to portray Jennifer as a normal mother.

J. CRUMBLEY: Every year around Thanksgiving, I always cooked Thanksgiving dinner the day after we would go cut our Christmas tree down. He was a big

history buff. We can play trivial pursuit and he would get me in history every single time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: So, the court is in recess now. It's been in recess for quite a while. The jury gets their lunch. It's delivered every day. And so, they

may be on lunch because it is the lunchtime hour. But the big questions here are, now, what do we do now?

Is the prosecution going to have a rebuttal case? And if so, does that mean we would lead straight into closing arguments today? I think, Bianna,

anything is a possibility at this point. We just have to wait and see when court convenes this afternoon, probably sooner than later, to see what

happens next.

GOLODRYGA: You'll be watching it for us as you have been throughout this trial. Jean Casarez in New York, thank you.

CASAREZ: Thank you. Well, let's get more now with CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson. So Joey, much has been made about the novelty of this legal

strategy put forward by the prosecution to, in effect, prosecute the parents of a shooter to stem school shooting and the number of school

shootings we've seen in this country. From what you've seen thus far, did the prosecution make a strong enough case to convict?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, that's the open question, Bianna. Nice to be with you. I think it really is a matter for the jury's

deliberation and in some respects they could have fallen short. Just to reset, just so, that we're all on the same page, many people may be

confused as to how and why the mother would be responsible.

Remember that this is not a murder case, murder relating to an intentional crime, a premeditated crime. This is a case dealing with involuntary

manslaughter. What does that mean? It means that it's not your aim and objective to engage in killing. It means you were -- you were careless with

respect to a killing that occurred and predicated upon your carelessness the actual killings and crimes took place.

Here, you have four students who were killed, you had six that were injured and another teacher that was injured, as well. And so the prosecution

really, Bianna, built their case upon four pillars that they had to establish.

Number one, is it reasonably foreseeable that if you purchase a weapon for your son, who has potential mental health issues, could something like this

occur? Number two, were the parents on notice? Were they aware? In this case, I say parents, we know James Crumbley, her husband, is going on trial

in March. Jennifer Crumbley now is on trial at this moment.

And so were they on notice? Were they aware of these mental maladies? And number three, did they act reasonably? And so, to the core of your

question, the jury is going to have to grapple with the issue of whether a parent should be responsible for the activities of their child based upon

the information made available to the parent and what the parent did or did not do. And of course, in this case, it was gifting, as we saw there, the

child a weapon.

GOLODRYGA: What did you make of what appeared to be the defense's strategy of sort of shifting the blame to the father? I guess, if they were to

pursue this logic that the parents can be held accountable for negligence, right, do you think that's an effective position from the defense's

standpoint to acknowledge that perhaps yes, but it's not her fault, it's his?

JACKSON: So, what happens is that jurors want accountability. Remember as we look at the mom and dad there again, James Crumbley on trial starting

March, Jennifer Crumbley now, the jury wants someone to pay a price. This is a horrific and tragic crime that occurred at the school.

We know Ethan Crumbley, then 15, is serving a life sentence without parole, and jurors want to know what happened here. And so, an answer to your

question in terms of blame, someone has to be responsible, someone needs to be blamed.

[12:35:00]

And I think the defense was doing a couple of things. Number one, as to the husband, the defense was blaming him. He purchased a weapon. He's the one

that went out to get it. He's the one who ultimately was really involved in shooting, et cetera. Not this shooting, but practicing, doing it as a

hobby. She, Jennifer Crumbley, not so much her thing. That was the testimony, right?

The second pillar, as it relates to the actual, not only blame game of the husband was the school. What did the school do? They had access to his

backpack. They handed him, that is the school, the dean, the backpack back. Wasn't searched, and the school's indication is there was no reasonable

suspicion. No basis for which they can search the bag, really? So, they're certainly -- the defense is blaming the school.

So, when you hear blame, blame, last point, Bianna, and that is the school also was possessed of information with regard to Ethan Crumbley's troubles

at school, really that they said he was having a rough time. He said that his parents, his life was a mistake, his parents weren't getting him help.

Guess who didn't know that? The parents. The school didn't share that with them.

And so, to the core of your question, the blame game may be effective, it may not. But I think, the jury wants to hold someone accountable and

certainly the defense said you know what, as long as it's not Jennifer Crumbley, we're good with that.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, the evidence, it was all there. It just wasn't pieced together apparently, and sadly it resulted in the death of a number of

classmates there. CNN Legal Analyst, Joey Jackson. Thank you.

Well, now to an unbelievable story out of Italy. A mafia boss known as one of Europe's most dangerous fugitives has been captured after nearly one

year on the run. Marco Raduano was caught by police on Thursday while enjoying a romantic dinner on the French island of Corsico.

Raduano escaped from a high-security Italian prison in February last year by knotting bedsheets together and then climbing down the walls. He will

return to jail, where he's serving 24 years for drug trafficking and instigating a murder.

Well, Sunday will be music's biggest night of the year. That's when the 2024 Grammy Awards will be handed out, and this year's list of nominations

is dominated by young women in music.

One man who knows a thing or two about what it takes to succeed in the business is Clive Davis. The legendary music mogul sat down with CNN's

Elizabeth Wagmeister to look back on his storied career and his famous pre- Grammy party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLIVE DAVIS, PRODUCER: I never thought in a million years that I would discover on us. I don't read music, I don't play music. It's just in the

gut.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That legendary gut discovered Janice Joplin in 1967. Since then, music producer

Clive Davis has nurtured the careers of some of the biggest stars on the planet. From Aretha Franklin to Billy Joel. Bruce Springsteen to Whitney

Houston. That song convinced Davis Houston was a superstar.

DAVIS: That's a song I commissioned for the life of Muhammad Ali eight years earlier. And there's this young teenager singing the greatest love of

all, like I never heard it before.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Houston was one of the stars Davis introduced to the industry at his famed pre-Grammy gala, which is always held the night

before the ceremony. And it was Barry Manilow who urged him to start in 1976.

DAVIS: Heads of networks, motion pictures, studios, directors, actors like Tom Hanks, Elspec, Jay Z, and Beyonce, and Chris Rock, Nancy Pelosi.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): It was hours before that party in 2012 that Whitney Houston drowned in the bathtub of her hotel room. Cocaine use and

heart disease were contributing factors.

WAGMEISTER: How tough was that for you?

DAVIS: Oh, it was painful. First of all, it was shocking. I had been with her 48 hours earlier.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Davis said Houston was planning to record new music with him before she died.

DAVIS: She was vital, optimistic, looking forward to the future. That's the lethal power of drugs. I called her family. I said, look, this was her

favorite party. We have to celebrate her.

UNKNOWN: She doesn't want us to be somber.

DAVIS: But also provide a peaceful haven for the mourners to be together and not feel alone.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Through the years, Davis says he's always tried to link the past with the present.

WAGMEISTER: What really stands out to you?

DAVIS: Taylor.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Recalling the time he introduced Taylor Swift to Johnny Mathis.

DAVIS: So he said, Taylor, you're going to see someone I don't think you've ever seen publicly before. An album of his greatest hits was on

Billboard's top 200 for 10 consecutive years.

[12:40:00]

And Taylor did her trademark, covering over mouth, gasping.

WAGMEISTER: What do you want people to remember you by? What is your legacy?

DAVIS: My legacy is that I discovered or nurtured an unusual array of the most gifted artists of all time and that they felt safe. But to see that

they were still headlining arenas all over the world and were not one hit wonders was such a great feeling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WAGMEISTER: It really was just incredible to sit across from Clive Davis, who at 91 years old is clearly still going and going. He himself has won

five Grammy Awards and has been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but Grammys weekend really always kicks off with Clive Davis.

His party is the most exclusive party of the entire weekend. And Clive let us in on a little clue. Joni Mitchell, who is going to be performing for

the first time ever at the Grammy Awards, will also be at Clive's party. Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Amazing. Clive Davis really is just such a legendary figure in the industry and such an eye for talent. Our thanks to Elizabeth for that

report. Well, earlier this week, we told you about the tremendous response that Sesame Street's Elmo got online when he asked a question we all ask

each other all the time. He posted, Elmo is just checking in. How's everybody doing? Well, on Thursday, the furry red muffet told CNN how he

felt about that experience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELMO: You know, Elmo's not really sure. Elmo was surprised because Elmo didn't realize that when you ask someone how they're doing, you have to be

ready because maybe someone's not doing well or maybe somebody is. But it's an important question to ask and Elmo's learned a lot about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Now, Mo had some advice about what you can do when you're not feeling so great.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELMO: You know one of the things that you were just talking about was belly breathing? Which is a really important strategy. That's a big word

that Elmo just learned. A strategy and it's belly breathing. So, what you do is you put your hands on your belly and you breathe in through your nose

like this.

And then you breathe out through your mouth slowly like this. And that really helps to make you feel calm and sort of get centered and relaxed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: A great strategy indeed from the wise Elmo. Well, that does it for this hour of "One World". I'm Bianna Golodryga. Thank you so much for

watching. I'll be back in about 15 minutes with Amanpour. Don't go anywhere. Marketplace Africa is up next.

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