Return to Transcripts main page

One World with Zain Asher

U.S. Lawmakers Pass A Bill To Ban TikTok In The U.S.; Judge In The Election Subversion Case Dismisses Some Of The Charges Against Former President Donald Trump And Some Co-Defendants; Chilean Aviation Officials Set To Investigate Latam Airlines Flight Incident; Russian President Vladimir Putin Warns That Country Is Ready To Use Nuclear Weapons If Threatened; Rock Star Lenny Kravitz Receives A Very Well-Deserved Star On The Walk Of Fame. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired March 13, 2024 - 12:00   ET




BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello everyone, live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Zain is off today. You are watching "One

World". The parent company of TikTok may soon have a choice to make, either sell one of the world's most popular social media platforms or lose 170

million subscribers. A short time ago, U.S. lawmakers overwhelmingly passed a bill that would force TikTok's China-based owners to divest or face a ban

in the U.S.

The Republican-controlled House approved the measure, despite resistance from former President Donald Trump. China's foreign ministry, meanwhile, is

accusing the U.S. of resorting to coercion because it can't keep up with the competition.


WANG WENBIN, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON (through translator): Even though the U.S. has not found evidence on how TikTok endangers its

national security, it has never stopped going after TikTok.

Such practice of resorting to acts of bullying when one could not succeed in fair competition disrupts the normal operation of the market. It

undermines the confidence of international investors and sabotages the global economic and trade order. This will eventually backfire on the U.S.



GOLODRYGA: The legislation now heads to the Senate, where it faces an uncertain future. CNN's Brian Fung joins me live in Washington. So, Brian,

it's rare these days to see overwhelming bipartisan support on just about anything.

As noted, this now heads to the Senate, where we don't know what the fate will ultimately be, though the President did suggest that he would sign the

legislation if passed. What would that mean for the fate of TikTok and its 170 million U.S. users?

BRIAN FUNG, CNN TECHNOLOGY REPORTER: Well, Bianna, I think the first thing that would probably happen is that we could expect some court challenges to

this law if it is passed. And you have many civil society groups, including TikTok, saying that this bill is flatly unconstitutional because it

restricts the ability of Americans to access information that they're legally entitled to be able to reach and restricts their ability to speak

in terms of social media.

So, you know, you'd probably see this play out significantly in the courts, and it would be a huge bellwether not just for TikTok, but for all social

media and internet regulation, because if the President is allowed to declare a certain social media app or any app as a national security risk.

And this bill would allow for a process for the President to do that, you know, either President Biden or a future president to do that. You know,

that could have sweeping implications for the way that we regulate social media and the Internet in this country.

Now, as you mentioned, this bill does face an uncertain path in the Senate. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer has only said that they will review

this legislation if it comes over -- when it comes over to them.

You do have the senior Democrat on the Senate Commerce Committee, Maria Cantwell, saying that she will try to work with her colleagues in a

bipartisan basis to find a path forward that, you know, preserves American civil liberties and recognizing some of the First Amendment concerns,

which, you know, does indicate that they are aware of some of the potential hurdles for this legislation if it is challenged. Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah. I believe the app is already banned on government devices. Is that in all states? Is that a federal ban?

FUNG: Well, at this point, we've seen the federal government and more than 30 states across the U.S. government -- across the United States, banning

TikTok on government devices. Now, it's important to point out that the government orders on devices that they directly control are treated

somewhat differently from, you know, a ban on personal devices, which immediately draws in questions about the First Amendment. So it is a little

bit of an apples to oranges comparison.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Brian Fung, thank you. Shelly Palmer is a Professor of Advanced Media at Syracuse University's Newhouse School of Public

Communications and joins me now live in New York. Thanks so much for joining us, Shelly.

So, the bill essentially says that TikTok must be sold now within six months to a buyer that satisfies the U.S. government. The sale would then

have to guarantee that ByteDance, the parent company, no longer has control over TikTok or its algorithms that recommend content to its users. If

ByteDance then refuses or can't sell TikTok, then it can be banned from app stores in the U.S.


You say this, quote, "It's hard to take this legislation seriously and you view it as fear mongering." How so?

SHELLY PALMER, PROFESSOR, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: Yeah. So, if you're really concerned about Chinese manipulation and weaponizing information, then you

have to look at data hygiene and data governance and data privacy across the entirety of the United States.

Facebook, X, which formerly Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, choose your social network, doesn't matter. These networks are used dramatically by

every bad actor in the world to sow seeds of division. They do so by taking behavioral data that's easily available for purchase by any number of data

brokers. And the bad actors do what they do with it, and they amplify virally using bots.

To say that China needs TikTok to spy on Americans is technological non- sense. Now, they may be spying on us using TikTok and they may be manipulating people's points of view with TikTok, but they're doing so on

every social network. And you know, to say that, like, okay, let's go, let's -- let's make TikTok not a thing.

Yeah. What's that really going to change? So, China will still have access to TikTok's feed when it's American owned. They will still use American

companies and American pseudonyms and bots to sow -- nothing's going to change.

GOLODRYGA: Shelly, who would actually own the algorithm, though? Because I think that's what's at issue here, is that you have a state based actor,

which would be China, that would ultimately -- that ultimately now, many believe has control of ByteDance's algorithm itself.

PALMER: So, so -- as if the algorithm is the culprit, and it isn't. The algorithm's job is to put the right message in front of the right person at

the right place at the right time. SEO 2, is every social media algorithm. By the way, SEO 2 is the Amazon recommendation engine. SEO 2 is the

Netflix recommendation engine. These all work the same way.

So, to say who has control of the algorithm? The mathematicians have control of the algorithm. And it's there to do one thing, surface

advertising that TikTok gets paid on so it can be in business. That's how it works. So, who's in control of the algorithm is the owner of the

company. But the job of the algorithm is just to surface the right content.

Now, you'll say, well, what about the bad content? The only way you get bad content is if you're interested in it. It doesn't surface content you're

not interested in. It gives you more of what you already like. That's how it keeps you engaged. TikTok is one of the most addictive algorithms in the

world. It should be outlawed for a lot of reasons.

I'm not saying that TikTok is good. I'm not even saying that China is good. I'm simply saying that if you believe this is a problem, then let's go

solve the problem. And this is not in any way going to solve the problem. It's not even close to solving the problem. We have bot traffic that's just

devastatingly more effective than this.

GOLODRYGA: So, why then do you think we've seen over the past few years increased concern from everyone from the director of the FBI to the office

of the director of national intelligence just this week issuing reports saying, quote, "The TikTok accounts run by the PRC, People's Republic of

China, a propaganda arm, reportedly targeted candidates from both political parties during the U.S. mid-term election cycle in 2022, and they can't

guarantee that that won't be the case in 24?

PALMER: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. Except it's happening on every social platform. It's not just happening on TikTok. And to single out

TikTok and say that that's going to solve this problem, if you believe that China is the problem, that bad actors, Russia and China, whoever you want

to identify, are manipulating our news feeds everywhere, then you have to go solve that problem. This does not solve that problem. This does not

solve that problem.

So, it doesn't even begin to get close to solving that problem, because no matter who owns TikTok, you're still going to use the same kind of tools,

the same kind of exploitation of the algorithm -- any algorithm to get the right message in front of the right person at the right time, at the right

place, to the number one metric that there is, which is engagement. They're trying to get you to stay engaged.

So, I applaud this idea that we may have a national security problem. We do. We don't maybe have it. Information has been weaponized by foreign bad

actors for years. This doesn't solve that. That's my problem with it. It's like, this is just me. This is politicians saying, be afraid of China.

Look, we solved the problem. They didn't solve the problem. They identified it. They definitely identified it.

Is TikTok, you know, guilty here? I promise you that there is definitely manipulative information on TikTok. But I also promise you there's

manipulative information on every single social network and every news feed in the United States. And in order to solve for that, you need to solve

that problem, which is a data problem. It's not a TikTok, who owns TikTok problem. It just isn't.

GOLODRYGA: Shelley Palmer, I wish we could have had more time to talk about this. We have to leave it there. Appreciate it. Thank you.

PALMER: All righty. Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Thank you. Well, now to a court ruling out of Georgia. The judge in the election subversion case has dismissed some of the charges against

former U.S. President Donald Trump and some of his co-defendants.


Former President Trump, of course, is the presumptive Republican presidential nominee in the November election. But the ruling does not mean

that the entire indictment has been dismissed.

Also, Judge Scott McAfee did not address the ethics allegations brought against Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis. CNN's Nick Valencia

joins us now live from Atlanta with more on this. So Nick, the judge has thrown out six of the indictment's 41 charges ruling that the state had

failed to make specific enough allegations to support them. How significant is this ruling?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a big victory for the defendants in this case, including the former President who had three of

the charges that he was facing thrown out. All of these charges have to do with the solicitation of the violation of an oath of office by a public


And what the judge is ruling here is saying that the D.A.'s office didn't provide enough details about what the alleged crime was that was being

solicited by these defendants. One of those that was underscored here was that infamous phone call between the former President and the current

Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger.

We've all heard it, that phone call in which Trump asked Raffensperger to find more votes. There's another one that has to do with the fake elector

scheme and that scheme by Trump and his allies to try to subvert the electoral college and say that he was the rightful winner of this state.

Those charges now being thrown out.

But the judge did leave the door open for the D.A. to appeal this decision and say once they fix those details that they can re-indict as they see

fit. We should mention though we are still waiting for a monumental decision in this case. Will Fani Willis proceed as the prosecutor in this

case or will she be disqualified?

Judge Scott McAfee recently gave an interview to WSB radio here in Atlanta in which he indicated that he is on track to make a decision by the end of

the week. He says his decision is going to have to do with the law as how he understands it.

And he also talked about how he's personally been impacted by this, saying that he has two young children and that he looks forward to the day where

they understand what he's gone through.

They don't see him as a judge presiding over a historic case, rightfully so, they just see him as dad. But he does say that he looks forward to the

day that he's able to look them in the eye and say that he played this straight and did the best that he could. In fact, we just ran into him a

short time ago and he reiterated that he is on track to make that decision by the end of the week and stick to the timeline that he gave himself.


GOLODRYGA: Nick Valencia reporting for us live from Atlanta. Thank you. Well, in the coming hour, a team of Chilean aviation officials will arrive

in Auckland to investigate this week's incident at Latam Airlines Flight.

On Monday, the Boeing 787 experienced a mid-flight drop that injured dozens of people. It's been a rough year for Boeing with several high-profile

incidents that have raised questions about the company's safety culture. Pete Muntean explains.


PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New images show the aftermath of Monday's mysterious in-flight jolt on a Chilean Boeing 787.

Latam Airlines says a technical event caused a strong movement on board, injuring 50 passengers who peppered the pilots with questions.

BRIAN JOKAT, LATAM FLIGHT 800 PASSENGER: I immediately engaged with him and said, you know, what was that? And he openly admitted, he said, I lost

control of the plane. My gauges just kind of went blank on me. And that's when the plane just took a dive.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Boeing says it is standing by to help investigate the incident, the latest involving a Boeing plane following the Alaska Airlines

door plug blowout in January, a wheel falling off a United flight last week, and hydraulic fluid trailing from another United flight during

takeoff from Sydney this week.

MARY SCHIAVO, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL, U.S. TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT: People are pretty wary of Boeing right now, and when anything happens on a

Boeing, people want to know.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Though there is no clear link between each incident, Boeing remains under the microscope of federal investigators. The Federal

Aviation Administration now says it has completed its review of the 737 production line, with "The New York Times" reporting Boeing failed 33 of 89

quality control audits.

MICHAEL WHITAKER, FAA ADMINISTRATOR: It wasn't just paperwork issues. Sometimes it's order that work is done. Sometimes it's tool management. It

sounds kind of pedestrian, but it's really important in a factory that you have a way of tracking your tools effectively so that you have the right

tool and you know you didn't leave it behind.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): FAA scrutiny follows anger from the National Transportation Safety Board, which blasted Boeing on Capitol Hill last week

for failing to provide records that detail the omission of key bolts from the Alaska Airlines plane. Boeing says those records do not exist.

JENNIFER HOMENDY, CHAIR, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: We don't have the records. We don't have the names of the 25 people that is in

charge of doing that work in that facility. It's absurd that two months later, we don't have that.

MUNTEAN: The National Transportation Safety Board just announced a rare hearing on the Alaska Airlines door plug incident.


That means Boeing officials could be subpoenaed to testify publicly. Boeing has not indicated how it will respond, but it is answering to the findings

from the FAA's audit. A new Boeing memo underscores that workers must precisely follow every step when building airplanes. Pete Muntean, CNN,



GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Pete Muntean for that report. Coming up, the final word before it's turned over to a jury. Closing arguments set to begin soon

as the father of high school mass shooter Ethan Crumbley faces charges in connection with the deadly attack. Also ahead, the International Community

is trying to desperately get needed help into Gaza by air and then by sea. We'll have details ahead.


GOLODRYGA: Closing arguments will begin any minute in a Michigan courtroom where James Crumbley is facing involuntary manslaughter charges.

Prosecutors accused the father of gross negligence, saying that he did not properly secure his son Ethan's firearm and ignored warning signs of his

son's spiraling mental health.

Ethan opened fire at his Michigan high school in 2021, killing four students and wounding several others. He was sentenced to life in prison.

James Crumbley has pleaded not guilty, and his wife was convicted on the same charges last month.

CNN's Jean Casarez is in Pontiac, Michigan, with the details. And Jean, unlike Ethan's mother, James is not testifying in this case, saying, quote,

it is my decision to remain silent. What do you make of that?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He spoke that in open court on the record because the judge has to make sure that it is his decision freely and

voluntarily to not testify. Well, it's definitely interesting. One could say it did not work well for Jennifer Crumbley, but Jennifer had so much

more baggage, so many social media posts.

James never posted anything on social media. There were some conversations with his wife. But I think that the defense probably felt in the end that

there was enough testimony that there's reasonable doubt.

For instance, when they went into the substation after Ethan had been charged, James Crumbley said, just right off -- I hid the gun in the arm on

our bedroom was under clothes and I hid the bullets in another area. Well, according to the law in Michigan at the time, you didn't have to lock up

your gun. It was in a case. It was not locked. Prosecutors are going to make a big deal out of that, but it will be something for the jury to



As far as the mental health issues, there was no direct testimony -- direct testimony that James Crumbley was told by Ethan that he had mental health

issues. He wrote it in his journal. He said he was begging his parents for help. So really, the credibility of Ethan Crumbley is going to be in that

courtroom. Did he tell his parents that or did he just write it? Don't know.

And that is something the jury will have to weigh, but the fact is something did come out to help the defense. It came out yesterday in that

journal that Ethan Crumbley said, my dad hid that nine millimeter and I got to find it because I'm going to do that shooting. But on the day before the

shooting, he writes, I've got the gun. I've got the bullets. I'm going to do it tomorrow. And many people are going to lose their lives. And that is

what happened.

GOLODRYGA: Tragically, that is what happened. And we'll be watching this very closely, a precedent setting decision in terms of Ethan's mother.


GOLODRYGA: And now, we'll see how the court rules with regards to his father and his culpability. Jean Casarez, thank you. Israeli President

Isaac Herzog has spoken to the parents of Itay Chen, a dual U.S. Israeli citizen killed in the October 7th Hamas terror attacks. Chen was one of six

U.S. citizens still thought to be held alive in Gaza. He served in the Israeli military.

The IDF says he was killed on October 7th and his remains were taken into Gaza. For months, his parents urged the Biden administration to get

Americans out. They spoke to Wolf Blitzer back in January.


RUBY CHEN, FATER OF ITAY CHEN: We had last contact with him October 7th in the morning, where he said that the place that he was at was under attack.

After a few hours, when we were unable to reach him, we understood it was a bit different. We started seeing the news videos, you know, coming out. And

he was initially identified as missing in action, meaning nobody knew where he was.

HAGIT CHEN, MOTHER OF ITAY CHEN: He should be home. My message is it's enough. We suffered enough. All the families, all the 136 hostages, the

families suffer enough. And we cannot handle this situation anymore.


GOLODRYGA: A tragic end there for the parents of Itay Chen with the news that their son is no longer alive. Our thoughts are with him as it's been

confirmed that he was killed. Well, now, to the war in Gaza. The United Nations Relief and Works Agency says more children have been reported

killed in over four months of war there than have been killed in four years of conflicts around the world combined.

This as tensions also rise in Jerusalem. Israeli police say a 12-year-old Palestinian boy was shot and killed by a border officer in a refugee camp

in the city. And we want to warn you, what we're about to show you is disturbing.

Here you can see the boy holding a lit firework above his head before the sound of a gunshot is heard. A police spokesperson says forces responded to

a violent disturbance at the camp and an officer fired, quote, "towards a suspect who endangered forces while firing aerial fireworks in their


Meanwhile, some desperately needed assistance is heading to Gaza, this time by sea. A ship carrying aid from the World Central Kitchen is now en route

to the Palestinian enclave after leaving Cyprus on Tuesday. CNN's Nada Bashir has the details.


NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): On its way at last. The open arms, normally a search and rescue vessel, setting sail from Larnaca in Cyprus

With nearly 200 tons of aid in tow, rice, flour and canned goods, enough for 500,000 meals according to World Central Kitchen.

JUAN CAMILO JIMENEZ, WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN: It's the first time it's happening in many years and that means that we are working with different

actors, different governments, different entities to make this possible.

BASHIR (voice-over): And this is where it's going, a makeshift pier in Gaza still under construction. This in addition to a temporary pier to be

established by the U.S. military on Gaza's coast. World Central Kitchen says it plans to distribute the food in Gaza where a quarter of

Palestinians are on the brink of famine, according to the U.N.

ANTONIO GUTERRES, U.S. SECRETARY GENERAL: My strongest appeal today is to honour the spirit of Ramadan by silencing the guns and removing all

obstacles to ensure the delivery of life-saving aid at the speed and massive scale required.

BASHIR (voice-over): Any form of celebration during this holy month is, at best, muted. With little food for Palestinians to break their fast at


OM SHAHER AL QTA'A, GAZA RESIDENT (through translator): We decided to come and break our fast here in our home which was struck.


Despite the destruction and the rubble, we brought our food and cooked on firewood.

BASHIR (voice-over): Open Arms will be one of the first ships to enter the Strip in years, ever since Israel implemented a naval blockade on the

territory in 2007. Aid trucks which, on average, crossed at around 500 a day before the war began, now pile up at the Rafah border crossing in

Egypt. Only a fraction actually make it across the border every day.

Governments and other aid agencies have also taken to airdrops, though this option has proven both controversial and even risky. Leaving the sea as one

of the last remaining avenues to bring food to those so desperately in need. Nada Bashir, CNN, London.


GOLODRYGA: All right, coming up for us, Russian President Vladimir Putin boasts that his country has the most modern nuclear arsenal in the world.

This as he delivers a defiant message days before elections in Russia.


GOLODRYGA: Welcome back to "One World" I'm Bianna Golodryga. Well, Ukraine has carried out one of its largest drone attacks yet since the start of the

Russian invasion. That includes strikes on three oil refineries and it's the second day Kyiv has targeted Russian energy sites.


Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin is warning that his country is ready to use nuclear weapons if threatened. CNN Senior International

Correspondent Fred Pleitgen is live in Berlin. Fred, Putin's comments were part of an extensive interview on Russian state television that aired just

days before Russians are heading to the polls for what is to be expected once again, a clear victory. And I say that in air quotes for Vladimir

Putin, another six year term. He's made nuclear threats in the past. What, if anything, should we read into these new ones?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, I think it's key when he's making these nuclear threats. And I think

you're absolutely right that obviously this interview happened just days before the Russian election is set to take place. The main day, of course,

being on March 17th. But there is some early voting that's actually already going on in some places right now.

So, obviously trying to drive home the message that Russia, despite the fact that maybe things aren't going as well as they would have hoped on the

battlefield inside Ukraine, of course, the beginning of the full on invasion of Ukraine, the Russians were talking about this, all this being

finished in three days. And now we're more than two years on.

And still Russian progress is slow at best to show that Russia is still a very strong nation. And I think that there were several messages in all of

that, that despite the fact that there are economic hardships, of course, for a lot of Russians, that many people have lost people on the

battlefields in Ukraine, that Russia still has the power to take on any country in the world, including the United States. And I think that's one

of the big messages from Vladimir Putin in that interview. I want to listen into some of what he had to say.


VLADIMIR PUTIN RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Our triad, the nuclear triad, it is more modern than any other triad. And it's only us and

the Americans who have such triads. In general, if we talk about the carriers and numbers of warheads, we are more or less equal, but ours are

more modern. Everybody knows it. All specialists know.


PLEITGEN: When he talks about the triad, he's obviously talking about the fact that the Russians can deliver nuclear weapons on land, sea and in the

air. Of course, the Russians have a big submarine fleet that's able to do just that. So, that's something that Vladimir Putin is once again putting

out there.

You're right. It's not the first time that he's doing it. Of course, in all of that, also a message to the United States, urging, of course, the U.S.

to stop helping Ukrainians. And the Russians have been saying that all this has the potential for a direct confrontation between the U.S and Russia,

which Vladimir Putin is saying the Russians are ready for and certainly nuclear-armed. Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Interesting, Fred, that one thing that Vladimir Putin didn't discuss, what's been reported, that Russia has fired a top naval commander.

This is unusual, given the fact that Putin seems to hold on to loyalty as opposed to competence. But we have seen Russia take a number of hits,

specifically in Crimea and its Black Sea fleet. Even though they're struggling among the Ukrainians on the eastern front on the battlefield,

they do seem to be successful when going after Russian ships.

PLEITGEN: They do. They do. And I think one of the things, first of all, you're absolutely right. And the Black Sea fleet has taken a lot of hit.

And the Black Sea fleet, quite frankly, has also been pretty ineffective so far in this war. Some of the warships that the Russians have in the Black

Sea and some of the submarines as well have been used to launch cruise missiles towards Ukraine. But aside from that, there really hasn't been

much effect that the Black Sea fleet has had.

You remember in the early stages of the full-on invasion that there were Russian landing ships just outside of the port town of Odessa, where a lot

of people thought that a big amphibious landing was about to happen in that area. And the Russians really never managed to project that power. In fact,

they lost some areas in the Black Sea. Like, for instance, Snake Island, which is an island off the coast of Ukraine that Russia had held for a


So, certainly, it appears as though it is true that he really did sack this naval commander, that Vladimir Putin seems to be fed up with that. But one

of the things that the Ukrainians have said, that despite the fact that they are having those troubles on the eastern front, that they are having a

lot of success hitting the Black Sea fleet and hitting it with low-tech equipment, like, for instance, unmanned sea drones, which they say have had

a huge effect against Russian ships.

And the Ukrainians say that, so far, they've been able to take out around maybe even a little more than a third of the Black Sea fleet. That is, of

course, a huge number for the Ukrainians to be able to take out, especially in light of the fact that the Ukrainians don't really have a functioning

navy of their own at all, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, it's estimated they've taken out about 15 ships since the start of this war. Fred Pleitgen, thank you. Time now for The Exchange.

We've got an expert view on Putin's threats and their timing, just days away from what we noted, an election where Putin is all but guaranteed to

secure another six-year term and continued delay in an urgently needed $60 billion funding package for Ukraine from the U.S.


Joining me now is CNN's Military Analyst, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. He's formerly the Commanding General of the U.S. Army, Europe and Seventh

Army. General, always good to see you. First, let me get you to respond to these threats once again, nuclear threats from Vladimir Putin coming just

days before he's expected to lock in another six-year term.

There had been reports that the U.S. was quite concerned a couple of years ago in terms of Russia potentially using tactical nuclear weapons in

Ukraine. Not to say there's no attention to these new threats, but how worrisome do you view them?

MARK HERTLING, FORMER LIEUTENANT, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It's always a consideration, Bianna. It's fascinating that the Russian military has just

under 6000 nuclear weapons. That's, as Fred just said, the air, the sea, and the land-based. That's much more than the United States has by

themselves, but when you consider the United States, France, and the U.K., all nuclear nations, it's about the same. There's about parity.

Russia tends to have more of the tactical nukes, and when you say that, that's a tough thing to talk about because those are low-yield nuclear

weapons, but they're still devastatingly effective and efficient on the battlefield and beyond.

Russia has had some experience with nuclear accidents like Chernobyl, so they know a little bit more about radiation poisoning, and they should be a

little bit hesitant to use these kinds of threats because they know the challenges associated with them.

But what I'd say is having exercise and conduct training events with Russian military, they always tend to end their exercises with a nuclear

blast. That usually is what they call end-ex when something like that happens. So, they are not loath to put that at the forefront, and Mr. Putin

has repeatedly used the bluster on nuclear weapons, and you can't ignore that because they are such dangerous weapons, and he has so many of them.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, you do have to take it seriously. In the state television interview that he gave, he also noted that there would be severe

consequences if there were Western boots on the ground in Ukraine involved in this fighting and described any additional Western supplies and military

assistance, weapons as fruitless. Listen to what he said.


PUTIN (through translator): If it formally comes to military contingents of foreign states being deployed in Ukraine, I am confident this would not

change the situation on the battlefield. This is the most important thing. Likewise, the delivery of Western weaponry to Ukraine failed to change

anything. Another point, this may lead to serious geopolitical consequences.


GOLODRYGA: Okay, the former argument aside, because I don't think anyone is seriously considering sending troops into Ukraine right now, but in terms

of weapons delivery, I think he's projecting there. Am I wrong? Because from everything we've heard from experts, it would be a significant change

in terms of trajectory on the battlefield for Ukrainians if they did get additional aid, if they did get the $60 billion supplemental that the U.S.

is still stalling on passing.

HERTLING: Yeah, you're absolutely right, Bianna. He is projecting and he's bluffing. And he knows how devastatingly effective Western aid has been for

Ukraine. For a country like Ukraine, a relatively small country, to stand up over two years against the Russian offensive has been phenomenal, first

of all, and part of the rationale behind that is because Ukraine has been given weapons.

And he is, in fact, sending a signal not only to his domestic audience, but I think the foreign audiences, to include some in the United States,

saying, hey, don't send any more weapons because it doesn't make a difference. Well, the fact of the matter is, from a military perspective,

those weapons have made a difference. And the absence of those weapons are creating disaster right now in Ukraine.

So, again, I would personally say to the U.S. Congress, especially the GOPs, put the bill on the floor. Let's continue that flow of weapons to the

Ukrainian military so they can continue to defeat Russia's army. And that's what they've been doing. They have been defeating them, make no doubt about


GOLODRYGA: Yeah, in the meantime, the U.S. has just announced it will be sending $300 million worth of weapons, including air defense interceptors,

artillery rounds and armor systems, as well as older versions of ATACMs. But, General, this, as you know, is at best a stopgap measure. How much

time would this buy the Ukrainians?

HERTLING: Well, it keeps the logistics chain flowing, Bianna, and that's the most important thing on a battlefield. So you can continue to have

those resupplies. It's been now four months of a delay that's broken the Ukrainian supply lines.

Just this smattering, this $300 million, and truthfully, I hear a lot of pundits say that's not much.


It's a drop in the bucket. It's small. It's certainly smaller than what we have been giving them. But what I would suggest is that's a significant

amount of ammunition. And it is mostly artillery pieces and long-range rockets and air defense equipment, which Ukraine needs to survive. And

they've got to keep that supply chain pumped. And this is a stopgap method, to be sure, but it's also a bridge to hopefully that $60 billion package

that hopefully will come soon.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, because at this rate, Russia is outproducing artillery shells more than the U.S. and Europe combined. Just gives you an idea of

the urgency that's needed right now to get additional artillery ammunition and other weapons to Ukrainian soldiers. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling,

thank you so much.

HERTLING: Always a pleasure, Brianna. Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Still to come for us, these berries are used to make gourmet drink touted for its health benefits. But child laborers who pick them,

well, they're at an enormous risk. We'll have a special report from the Amazon on how acai berries are harvested after a quick break.


GOLODRYGA: It's a superfood you might find in high-end grocery stores or juice bars. The acai berry is said to benefit everything from heart health

to the effects of aging. But the story of how the fruit is harvested might leave you with a pretty bad taste in your mouth. As part of CNN's Freedom

Project, Julia Vargas Jones ventured into the Amazon rainforest where young children are risking their lives just to be able to make a living.


JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): It's the middle of the night on the banks of the Amazon River. But the young workers of the Fazenjiny

village are already loading up for a day's work. They don't bring much, machetes, tarp bags and a dry change of clothes. But first, their small

boat needs to cross this massive river.

Inside, the smell of diesel is nauseating. But Lucas, at 13 years old, is still waking up. On top of school, he says he's been picking acai for two

years now, helping his older brother, Wengelsten, feed their seven siblings.


By dawn, we reach the Marajo archipelago in the far north of Brazil, crossing state lines to Para, the world capital of acai. Amidst this lush

vegetation are hundreds and hundreds of acai trees. These are these tall palms that can get up to 70 feet tall.

VARGAS JONES: Right now, these guys are looking closely to see which ones are ripe and have fruit ready for the picking.

VARGAS JONES (voice-over): In Brazilian culture, acai has been called the guardian of the Amazonian population. Those who can harvest it, they say,

will never go hungry. And 90 percent of the superfruit comes from this northern state.

From 2012 to 2022, acai exports grew 21,000 percent, according to industry data. More than 8000 tons were exported in 2022, moving more than $26

million. But Lucas will only get a fraction of that number. And to earn it, he will do grueling work and face the dangers of the jungle.

Hiding in the forest are deadly snakes, scorpions and jaguars. And then there's the climb. With no harness, Lucas will climb dozens of acai trees

on a single day in search of ripe berries.

VARGAS JONES: He makes this look easy, but actually these are quite heavy. Each one of these is about 10 pounds. These are dense fruit. And he comes

down with two, sometimes three or even four of these bushels just sliding down the tree.

VARGAS JONES (voice-over): In these remote areas of the jungle, rescue can be hours away. The stories of harvesters who've fallen from trees are

numerous. Some have never walked again, or worse.

VARGAS JONES: When was the first time you got up on an acai tree?

VARGAS JONES (voice-over): He was 11 years old, he says. The money he makes, he says, he gives to his mom, who in turn gives him back a smaller

portion. What do you use your money for, I ask. To buy my school supplies, he said. Families are risking their children's lives to get a paycheck,

community leader Nerivan Da Silva says.

NERIVAN DA SILVA, NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT (through translator): It's out of need and not having food on the table. This practice is

inherited, passed down from father to son. But it's too dangerous. At the same time, it's our tradition that we've been doing for more than 100


VARGAS JONES: So, it seems to me like there is a clash between both the tradition of the community and the education of the children.

VARGAS JONES (voice-over): There is, he says, but it doesn't have to be this way. The cycle of child labor here can be broken, he says. But they

need help, incentives to get children to stay in school. Allan Bruno is a prosecutor investigating individual complaints of forced labor across the

region. One of the biggest challenges, he says, is educating workers and children of their rights.

ALLAN BRUNO, PROSECUTOR, PUBLIC MINISTRY OF LABOR: This is a reality of the rural work.

VARGAS JONES (voice-over): Some of them can't read, write or even count. Their needs are so basic, it's almost unfathomable.

DA SILVA (through translator): Come see the culture where the acai comes from. Because more often than not, people have no idea how much work it is

for us to get it to your table.

VARGAS JONES (voice-over): Julia Vargas Jones, CNN, Marajo Islands, Brazil.


GOLODRYGA: And be sure to join us tomorrow for "My Freedom Day", a student- driven event to raise awareness of modern-day slavery. We'll be right back with more.



GOLODRYGA: In a drastic attempt to protect their beachfront homes, residents in Salisbury, Massachusetts, recently invested $500,000 to build

a sand dune to defend against encroaching waves.

After it was completed, the barrier lasted just 72 hours before it was completely washed away. CNN Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir joins us

live from Salisbury. Bill, what happened? Seventy two hours and that's it?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is really a story sort of a half-century in the making, Bianna. We're right sort of an hour

north of Boston here in Salisbury, just near the New Hampshire border. And folks who've been coming here, you know, since the 70s tell me they used to

get tired walking down to the waterline. But year by year, foot by foot, this beach has eroded to the point where they needed to do something.

After freakish back-to-back storms started in December of 22 and then a few more in recent years, they went together actually on $600,000 worth of

sand. Over a hundred homeowners kicked in. They bought 15,000 tons of it and built this dune, which you see sort of half of what's left.

At one point when they just finished this just a few weeks ago, it would have filled this area as well going along. It was meant to really last them

and protect these homes for three years. That's what they've been used to.

It lasted less than a day. And in that one storm, they saw hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of sand just disappear. Not all the homeowners

bought in and kicked into this plan, including this one. You can see it's literally the dunes, haves and have-nots. And in this case, the waves went

up right into the living room. They're cleaning up that, as well. One house was condemned after one of these storms recently.

So, it's really a wake-up call for people who have been sort of fighting the sea with sand a couple times a decade to have this happen this fast,

completely reevaluating what the future means in places like this.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, I guess it's a sign and evidence that you can't always engineer your way out of climate change these days. What's next for the

residents? They've invested $600,000, gone within a day or two. What are they thinking for next time?

WEIR: Yeah, well, the organizer of these homeowners is really hoping the state will then come in and help them. What's interesting in Massachusetts,

unlike other states, is these folks own the beach up to the low tide line, and then the state refuses to sort of put sand on private property for

liability reasons, for cost reasons.

This is just one of, like, 79 coastal towns that are in this new vulnerable zone. The state officially is preparing for several feet of sea level rise

above, like, the year 2000 levels by 2050, by 2030. And so, some folks here told me they don't believe that climate change is even a thing.

Others are starting to come around to that idea. And if you have a different mindset as to whether this is a new normal or whether this is

just a string of bad luck, and this place will be here forever, it changes the way you plan for these things.

So it's a fascinating microcosm, Bianna, what's happening on coastal communities really all across North America. In some places like Rhode

Island, they're buying out vulnerable properties when they're condemned. Instead of rebuilding year after year, they're trying to sort of manage

that retreat and turn those places into dunes or wetlands or mangroves in certain places.


But here in a place like this, there's just no room for air. On the other side of these homes is a highway and then more wetlands. So, on this real

narrow strip where they don't have a whole lot of margin for air on a warmer world with water expanding.

GOLODRYGA: Unbelievable that that dune was meant to last three years, Bill, and lasted less than a week. Thank you so much for bringing us this story.




GOLODRYGA: Now, to the best segment of the hour. That's "American Woman" from rock star Lenny Kravitz. The four-time Grammy winner was in Hollywood

to receive a very well-deserved star on the Walk of Fame, Tuesday. Kravitz is well-known for his smooth vocals, cool style, and of course those

shades. Listen to his reaction as he received the star.


LENNY KRAVITZ, SINGER: To see my name, Lenny Kravitz, permanently engraved on the same streets I used to walk is a surreal, indescribable feeling.

ZOE KRAVITZ, ACTOR AND DAUGHTER OF LENNY KRAVITZ: I've seen the way you show up and take care of the people you love. I've seen your incredible

dedication to your art. But mostly, I've seen through your shirts.


GOLODRYGA: The man just exudes cool, even if he's shamed by his daughter. Actor Denzel Washington was also on hand to pay tribute to Kravitz on the

Hollywood Walk of Fame. Well-deserved, long overdue. Well, that does it for this hour of "One World". I'm Bianna Golodryga. Thank you so much for

watching. Amanpour is up next.