Return to Transcripts main page

One World with Zain Asher

Recovery Efforts Underway In Taiwan Despite Continuing Aftershocks; President Biden Expresses Unhappiness Over The Deaths Of Aid Workers In Gaza; Protest Outside Knesset Continue; Human Rights Activists Petitions Ugandan Court To Overturn The Anti-Homosexuality Act; Solar Eclipse Happens Next Week; Trump Invites President Biden To Engage In A Debate; Music Artists Call For Protection From The Threat Posed By Artificial Intelligence. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired April 03, 2024 - 12:00   ET



ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: An urgent search for survivors. The latest on the devastating earthquake that rocked Taiwan.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: "One World" starts right now. First responders in Taiwan are picking through rubble in hopes of finding

survivors as the threat of aftershocks looms.

ASHER: President Biden expresses outrage after aid workers are killed in Gaza, but will it lead to any pushback against Israel?

GOLODRYGA: And later, taking a stand, why more than 200 of the world's biggest musical artists are coming together to demand change. Hello

everyone, live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. You are indeed watching "One World". A desperate search is underway right now for survivors after the strongest earthquake

to hit Taiwan in about a quarter of a century.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, the images are shocking and the threat isn't over yet. Nearly 30 aftershocks above 4.0 magnitude have rocked the island's eastern

coast near the epicenter and more are expected in the coming days.

At least nine people were killed and more than 900 injured when the massive quake struck, triggering landslides and causing more than 100 buildings to

collapse. Rescue crews are currently trying to reach dozens of people who were trapped in highway tunnels.

ASHER: The quake was so strong that tremors could be felt as far away as eastern China. The military meanwhile has deployed, although the full

extent of the damage remains unclear. CNN's Hanako Montgomery has more.


HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Morning commuters in Taiwan, shaken by strong tremors. Drivers stopped on highways

and bridges. Live broadcasts interrupted and people ducking for cover as a 7.4 magnitude earthquake struck the island around 8 a.m. Wednesday.

UNKNOWN: (through translator): All the things fell off, everything damaged.

MONTGOMERY (voice-over): It was the strongest earthquake to hit the island in 25 years, Taiwan's weather agency says.

UNKNOWN: (through translator): It was very strong. It felt as if the house was going to topple.

MONTGOMERY (voice-over): It prompted tsunami warnings in Taiwan, Japan and the Philippines, which were later lifted. Its epicenter near the tourist

city of Hualien on the island's eastern coast. Social media video shows the moment it triggered a massive landslide with dust clouds swallowing a road.

This multi-story building partially collapsing as scooters and motorbikes watched from a distance.

Around a hundred buildings have been damaged. Rescuers racing to save people trapped, including dozens in tunnels blocked by debris. Wednesday's

quake is the strongest to hit Taiwan since 1999, when a powerful 7.7 magnitude quake struck, killing more than 2000 people.

Authorities said Wednesday the military has been deployed to help with the aftermath. President Tsai has asked her administration to work with local

governments on assistance.

TSAI ING-WEN, TAIWAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I would like to ask you to continue to pay close attention to the situation in various places

and initiate various contingency measures to protect the safety of the people.

MONTGOMERY (voice-over): Many now find themselves in darkness, navigating the ruins of their homes and bracing for the relentless aftershocks.


MONTGOMERY (on-camera): And Zain and Bianna, we have to remember that this earthquake happened just a day before a tomb sweeping day. Tomb sweeping

day in much of the Chinese speaking part of the world is a day when people -- when relatives visit their ancestors' tombs and pay their respects.

But because we're seeing aftershocks -- very powerful aftershocks that the Taiwanese authorities have warned could last for the next several days. And

many people in Taiwan have had to cancel their plans and instead, grapple with the aftermath of the largest earthquake they've seen and witnessed in

the past 25 years.

ASHER: Hanako Montgomery, live for us there. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. All right. The tsunami threat has ended. Recovery efforts

underway despite continuing aftershocks that Hanako was just laying out there.


CNN Meteorologist Elisa Raffa joins us live now from Atlanta. Alyssa, the damage is incredible, right? It is extensive. You're talking about

buildings that have been completely destroyed, landslides, highways that have been closed. You've got thousands of people without power. Obviously,

people trapped in buildings at this point in time. What are authorities up against in terms of rescuing those people who are trapped right now?

ELISA RAFFA, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yeah, we've got showers that will be in the forecast for the next couple of days. And while this magnitude of

earthquake is so rare, we actually are in an area of the world where earthquakes themselves are pretty common. The area there in Southeast Asia

is prone to earthquakes.

We're looking at the Ring of Fire. Basically, we've got the plate tectonics of the Earth -- the Earth is split into plates. And once those plates kind

of hit up against each other or they move, that's where you get the earthquakes. And if you look at Eastern Asia, Southeast Asia, all of these

islands here are really prone, ground zero for all of that shaking.

More than 450 of our volcanoes are in that area. Ninety percent of the world's earthquakes happen in that Ring of Fire. Like I mentioned, that

seven-point magnitude earthquake is pretty rare. Only happens 15 times a year worldwide. But when it does happen, this is the destruction.

I mean, we're looking at buildings that are crooked upside down, just totally toppled and destroyed, landslides being triggered from this. And

the aftershocks that will come is even more vulnerable, because even though they might be lesser quakes than the original seven-point magnitude, you

have buildings that look like that. So, they're more susceptible now to even more damage because they are losing their foundation and their


Seven-point magnitude on the east coast of Taiwan, any tsunami alerts have been lifted. But we have had about 29 earthquakes since then, the

aftershocks that have been four-point magnitude or higher. So, they've been pretty significant. An earthquake like that on its own could do a lot of

damage. Here's that three-day forecast going through the next couple of days.

Temperatures at and a little bit above average in the middle 20s, but we are looking at some showers through Thursday, Friday and Saturday across

the island as we go through the next couple of days. So, that could be a problem for rescuers trying to go through the rubble, clean-up efforts, as

well, as we're looking at some showers that come off of mainland China and then cut across the island. And this will be through the next couple of


But those aftershocks will continue. And again, like at our last check, most of them have been pretty strong, that four-point magnitude or higher,

a lot of them five-point magnitude. So they'll really have to deal with that the next couple of days, ladies.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah, they've got a very difficult few days ahead. Alyssa, I know you said that the tsunami threat had been lifted. I had seen images of

ocean waters receding in Japan yesterday. Does that mean they're in the clear now or is there still cause for concern?

No, they should be in the clear going forward once that was lifted. A lot of that threat for the tsunami threat there is pretty imminent, right,

because you just shook all of this land and that can slosh the ocean back and forth.

It might be something that they need to monitor for these aftershocks, depending on how strong these aftershocks can be, which, like I mentioned,

some of them have been five to six-point in magnitude, which is pretty significant. So, they'll need to keep monitoring for that. But in that near

term right now, all of those advisories and warnings have been allowed to expire.

GOLODRYGA: That's reassuring. But the search and recovery in Taiwan continues. Elisa Raffa, thank you. Well, as international outrage builds

over those deadly Israeli strikes on aid workers in Gaza, we are learning more about the victims. And we're also hearing directly from the founder of

the food charity involved.

ASHER: Yeah, seven World Central Kitchen staff members, one Palestinian. The rest from countries around the world were killed on Monday on a road

that Israel had actually designated -- designated it as a humanitarian corridor. CNN analysis video and images suggest that their convoy was hit

by multiple -- multiple precision strikes. Israel says that it made a grave mistake and is taking responsibility for these attacks.


HERZI HALEVI, CHIEF OF STAFF, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: It was a mistake that followed a misidentification at night during a war in a very complex

conditions. It shouldn't have happened. T


GOLODRYGA: The British foreign secretary, meanwhile, says that he is shocked and saddened and is calling for a full investigation.


DAVID CAMERON, U.K. FOREIGN SECRETARY: I welcome what the Israeli foreign minister said yesterday to me about a full, urgent and transparent inquiry

into how this dreadful event was allowed to happen. And we want to see that happen very, very quickly.


GOLODRYGA: World Central Kitchen said that it had coordinated the convoy's movements with the Israeli military and has now suspended its operations in


ASHER: The charity's founder, Chief -- Chef, rather, Jose Andres, issued this statement.


He's saying, in part, the Israeli government needs to be -- needs to open more land routes for food and medicine today. It needs to stop killing

civilians and aid workers today. It needs to start the long journey to peace today.

GOLODRYGA: The U.S. President is using some of his bluntest language yet to express his unhappiness over the deaths of those aid workers in Gaza.

ASHER: Yeah, Joe Biden says he is outraged and he is heartbroken and said Israel has simply not done enough to protect aid workers trying to deliver

desperate needed help to civilians. In a statement, he added that even more tragically, this was not a stand-alone incident.

CNN's M.J. Lee joining us live now from the White House. The President saying that he is quite simply outraged. Obviously, those words, not in a

vacuum. It comes at a time when there are there has been so much criticism from progressives, from Muslim Americans, from Arab Americans about the way

this war is being handled and also the fact that the President continues to stand by Israel, especially in places like Michigan. Just talk to us a bit

more about the political ramifications of this for the president, MJ.

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. You know, first of all, our reporting is that this incident and the deaths of these seven aid

workers has really touched off a fury and indignation inside the White House.

And you saw President Biden's statement last night, really speaking volumes. He said that he was outraged and heartbroken. I should note the

word outrage is not one that he has actually used often throughout the course of this war.

And what I'm told by a senior administration official is that the frustration for the President and his top officials has really reached new

levels after this incident. And what was striking about that statement we saw from the President last night is how explicitly he blamed Israel for

what happened. He said in this statement that Israel has not done enough to protect aid workers, that it has not done enough to protect civilians.

And he said, quote, "Incidents like yesterday's simply should not happen. Now, this fury that I'm describing inside the White House certainly comes

at a moment of bubbling tensions already between U.S. and Israel. This has been going on for months, of course, over the way that Israel has been

conducting its war and its military operations in Gaza.

But what's notable is that so far, at least today, the White House is making very clear that it is not announcing any kind of sort of policy

changes when it comes to the U.S.' overall support of Israel and the war that is currently conducting for the goal of eradicating Hamas in Gaza.

White House spokesperson John Kirby just told reporters moments ago that, yes, U.S. wants Israel to do things a little bit differently, to make sure

that they are doing a better job of preventing these civilian casualties. But he said the U.S. still believes that Israel has a right to defend

itself. And he said, quote, "Israel is going to continue to have American support."

Now, in terms of just the actions that the U.S. might ultimately take in response to these deaths, Kirby also said that it depends on the

investigation that the Israelis are conducting. Of course, we already know a lot of the details that would come out of this investigation. But still,

the administration's view right now is that they need a full accounting of what exactly happened before they can have that conversation.

ASHER: M.J. Lee, live for us there. Thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: Meantime, protesters are venting their anger from inside the Israeli parliament. Take a look.


ASHER: Family members of the hostages held in Gaza stormed the gallery of the Knesset today. They're upset. They're angry because of the government's

failure to secure the release of their loved ones. Some smeared yellow paint on the gallery's viewing windows. The color has come to really

represent the plight of the hostages.

GOLODRYGA: Thousands of anti-government protesters also demonstrated outside the Israeli parliament. This is the fourth day in a row that they

have taken to the streets of Jerusalem. Along with calls for hostages to be brought home, they want Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to resign. On

Tuesday, some protesters breached security barriers near the Prime Minister's residence.

GOLODRYGA: CNN's Melissa Bell joins us now live from outside the Knesset, where protesters are still making their voices heard. This is now the third

or fourth day that we've been coming to you, Melissa, with these protests only growing louder. A lot of pain and frustration, especially from those

family members of the hostages who want their loved ones to come home and are putting more pressure on this government to see that that happens.

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Bianna and Zain. I think that to understand the anger that you've seen expressed

outside the Knesset here, but more broadly in Jerusalem these last few nights.


You have to understand that the Israeli government has, over the course of the last week, so closely intertwined its fight against Hamas and all that

is happening inside the Gaza Strip, its relentless bombing campaign and all that's gone with it, with its determination to bring the hostages back.

What the protesters here over the last few days have been saying, we've seen tents put up. They've now been dismantled. It's a handful of

protesters making a lot of noise, but these are protests that are drawing to a close because they were tied to the Knesset's calendar. The idea of

this protest was to urge politicians and the government not to go home on their spring recess because of the more than 130 hostages inside Gaza


And the message of this protest -- these protests, these several nights of protest that saw many thousands protest night after night, has been that

far from buying the government's message still, they believe that, in fact, the way the government has waged this war has been countered, they believe,

to their interests, to the interests of the hostages' families hoping to get their loved ones home and indeed contrary to the security interests of


That's what we've heard over and over again from inside these protests, a sort of not in my name message, and a lot of anger being expressed about

the fact that more than 130 hostages are still out there.

And those were family members of the hostages that you saw breach the public gallery of the Knesset today, angrily demanding that the government

do more, urging them to stay on in their posts in the Knesset, in the government, until every single one of them has come back.

And what they've been hearing, chanting just now, is alive, alive, we want them back alive. And of course, that anger that you see speaks to the fact

that increasingly there are fears that there are many families of hostages that may never see their loved ones again.

GOLODRYGA: It is just unimaginable what these families are going through, and of course it goes without saying that Israel is not negotiating with

itself. I mean, an offer has been put on the table, and Hamas, until now at least, has not taken and agreed to that offer, and this war sadly

continues. Melissa Bell, thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, there have been many questions about the sequence of events that led up to the deadly Israeli strike on aid workers in Gaza on

Monday. So, for some answers, let's bring in IDF spokesperson, Peter Lerner. Peter, it is good to see you. So, we heard from the IDF Chief of

Staff, Lieutenant General Halevi, say that this was a mistake that followed a misidentification, and that an independent body would investigate these


A very outraged President Biden went on to say that these deaths were not a standalone incident, and that he's calling for a swift, accountable, and

public investigation. What is the IDF doing now, and what guarantees can you make that this investigation will be swift, it will be accountable, it

will be independent, and it will be made public?

LT. COL. PETER LERNER, SPOKESMAN, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: Thanks, Bianna. It's great to be here with you. So, I think, first of all, I'd like to echo

what President Biden actually said. He said it simply shouldn't happen, and that's exactly what the Chief of Staff, Lieutenant General Halevi, also

said. It was a mistake, it was an unfortunate tragedy, and that is precisely what we're doing now in order to try and learn from the mistake

that happened in the attempt to try and deliver humanitarian food supplies to the people in need.

The IDF is currently involved in, I would say, two core efforts to learn those lessons and take the necessary steps. First of all, an operational

debrief, understanding what the operational conditions were, what the level of coordination, what went wrong. We have to get to the bottom of it.

So, that we need to do very swiftly. We need to do it so that we can continue our operational effort hand-in-hand with the humanitarian effort.

And the second level of investigation or inquiry or probe that we're conducting is an independent investigation made up of former senior

military officials that are no longer in service, but understand the nature of warfare, understand the prism of conducting complex operations in

densely populated areas.

And indeed, we need to get to the bottom of what happened to the convoy, to the staff of the World Central Kitchen. It shouldn't have happened. It was

a mistake. Our Chief of Staff said that we are sorry for this and we need to make sure that it doesn't happen again. I'm sure you understand that I

can't go into specific details at this time, Bianna, as the inquiry, as the probe proceeds, but I expect there to be some results within the next

couple of days.

ASHER: Peter, thank you for being with us. As Bianna touched on and as President Biden touched on, of course, you know, you talked about the

miscalculation and there was obviously a mistake.


But as a lot of people have touched on, this is far from an isolated incident. There have been about 196 aid workers who have been killed in

Gaza since October 7th. And so, some people are wondering, listen, given that track record, why weren't there greater precautions taken before what

we saw this week to prevent this kind of thing happening?

I understand the IDF is opening up, for example, a humanitarian command center. Some people are saying, look, that should have been done sooner,

given all the casualties we've seen with aid workers.

LERNER: Zain, thank you. It's a very important question. You know, we have to understand, first of all, there are thousands of humanitarian movements

happening every single day in the course of the last six months in this war. Each and every individual case needs to be looked at, and that's so

rather than pointing at numbers where we don't know what that number constitutes of, because we know, for instance, aid workers, working for

UNRWA, were involved in it.

ASHER: But you can agree it wasn't an isolated incident. This wasn't the first time that aid workers have been killed in Gaza.

LERNER: And I'm sure you can agree that we have to talk about specifics and not speak about numbers. If we're talking about numbers, then we need to

identify that at least a handful of UNRWA aid workers were involved in the massacre on the 7th of October and perhaps were killed in counter-strikes.

Now, those numbers are not being identified of specifically who they are, and we need to do everything we can.

ASHER: But Peter, Peter, do you think, do you think that perhaps more could have been done in advance of what we saw this week to prevent this kind of

thing from happening? That is simply my question.

LERNER: Here's what I know. I know that the IDF is conducting a humanitarian effort side by side with the operational effort. Do we need to

make sure that the humanitarian efforts can continue without threat? Absolutely. That is precisely what we're trying to improve on the situation

as a result of the strike -- the unfortunate strike on the World Central Kitchen.

The reality is one where it is a very complex situation, where our enemy, Hamas, have circumvented, have taken control, have intentionally positioned

themselves within the civilian arena to jeopardize the humanitarian efforts. They are trying to utilize those tools, the humanitarian efforts,

to exacerbate the situation.

So, while, of course, we understand and we take our business very seriously, we also have to understand it's not a sterile area. It's an area

where there is a war zone, an area where our enemy is taking advantage. Everything that you and I hold dear to life, to the sanctity of hospitals,

to emblems of the U.N., these are things that we try and protect.

The enemy, Hamas, that are, you know, the U.S. and Israel are in complete agreement that Hamas have to go precisely because we know that there is no

common ground with these people that will come into our houses --


LERNER: -- butcher our babies, and rape a woman. So, we have to understand that we need to conduct our humanitarian operations. We need to make sure

that the humanitarian operations can be ongoing, a consistent flow of activities. You know, I spoke earlier today with one of the liaison

officers that was in direct contact to the World Central Kitchen. He's heartbroken personally because these are people he was working with to

alleviate the difficulties of the situation of the war on the people.

So, indeed, it touches us. We are very serious. We want to make sure that it doesn't happen again.


LERNER: And I would say there are thousands of humanitarian movements that are taking place every single day.

GOLODRYGA: Peter, can I just ask you, you know, we mentioned that there's a separate official investigation going on. But as that's happening, as I'm

sure you know, there's already internal finger-pointing.

And I want to read to you from what "Haaretz" is reporting, that army sources are accusing the IDF Southern Command of trying to deflect blame

and here's exactly the quote, "A source in the intelligence branch said that the command knows exactly what the cause of the attack was in Gaza.

Everyone does as he pleases." Peter, is there a disconnect between the IDF top brass and the field commanders on the ground in Gaza?

LERNER: Not that I would, you know, I wouldn't take that very far than the paper that it was written on. Unfortunately, there's the rumor mill that

has mobilized a lot of people that are discontent. I think what is more important is actually that we get to the bottom of what actually happened.

You know, there can be finger-pointing from internal units and different misunderstandings.

I think when we are engaging, you know, Lieutenant General Herzi Halevi was in the Southern Command last night, and they presented their perspective of

what went wrong, what happened, what were the mistakes.


And indeed, Lieutenant General Halevi said we need to push forward, we need to make sure these mistakes don't happen, and we will reinstate or instate

an independent investigation, independent of the chain of command, which means that they have full independence to judge, to look at, to

investigate, to inquire.

They have all of the materials that made up of the operational action and also in the aftermath. So, whether it's aerial surveillance or different

types of things that could be available to them. So, I'm certain that we need to make sure that, on one hand, that the humanitarian effort

continues, that these tragedies in the fog of war do not happen, and that when we come out of it, we will know exactly what the failures were, what

were the operational mistakes, and how it can never happen again.

GOLODRYGA: I'm sure you understand how important this investigation is. The whole world is watching. The whole world mourns the loss of these brave

seven individuals who were trying to simply help people on the ground. And from all the reporting that we know now, they had done everything that they

were supposed to do. They've coordinated with the IDF. So, still a lot of unanswered questions. Peter, please come back to us when this investigation


LERNER: I expect that to be in a couple of days. I hope that I'll have the platform, be happy to share with you our findings as we understand the

situation. No, I think what is really important, I think this probably, as we leave, the humanitarian effort goes hand-in-hand with the operational


For Hamas to be gone, the humanitarian assistance needs to continue. We're encouraging the international organizations to continue their efforts.

We'll make sure that the humanitarian aid can get to who needs it. We need to make sure that Hamas don't take advantage of this tragedy.

ASHER: Crucial point about the humanitarian effort, because a lot of humanitarian agencies are suspending their operations so they don't feel

safe. And Gaza is, of course, as you know, Peter, on the brink of a catastrophic famine. We have to leave it there. Peter Lerner, live for us.

Thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: Thank you.

ASHER: All right. Still to come, a devastating blow for human rights activists in Uganda, where a court has upheld a severe law against the

LGBTQ community.

GOLODRYGA: And Donald Trump hits the campaign trail and issues a challenge to Joe Biden.


DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm calling on crooked Joe to debate any time, any place, we'll do it anywhere you want, Joe.




ASHER: All right. One of the harshest laws against LGBTQ people in the world has been upheld by a court in Uganda. Human rights activists and

others had petitioned the court to overturn the Anti-Homosexuality Act -- Anti-Homosexuality Act, excuse me, which was adopted last year.

GOLODRYGA: It punishes same-sex relations with life imprisonment and the death penalty in some instances, such as having sex while HIV positive. One

pastor defended the court's decision.


MARTIN SSEMPA, ANTI-LGBTQ ACTIVIST: Let it be settled in your mind that despite the great difficulty and the suffering that we are going through,

we will fight for our children's future. We will fight for our African culture. We will fight for our faith.


ASHER: David McKenzie has more on the impact of the ruling.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Human rights activists and lawyers are deeply disappointed in the decision of the

Constitutional Court in Uganda to unanimously uphold a draconian anti-LGBTQ law that calls for a life sentence in some cases, even the death penalty in

certain circumstances for the LGBTQ community in Uganda. Now, there were two aspects of the law that the judges said could be thrown out, including

issues of privacy and health.

But in the main, they let it stand. Despite the incredible pressure coming from Western governments and others, ever since President Museveni signed

the law last year and extensive reporting by CNN has shown that LGBTQ Ugandans have been harassed, evicted, and beaten, and in some cases, even

had to flee the country to seek asylum elsewhere because of the conditions in Uganda. Now, it's likely the lawyers will appeal this ruling at the

Supreme Court. David McKenzie, CNN, Johannesburg.

ASHER: All right, still to come, as Arab Americans feel increasingly anxious about what's happening in Gaza. Find out how one doctor staged a

silent but very symbolic protest against President Biden.

GOLODRYGA: And next week's total solar eclipse. Have you heard that's happening, Zain? I'm going to do that all week. It's never going to get

old. Will be the last to be seen from North America for 20 years ahead, how people in its path are preparing for the big show. Not going to stop.



ASHER: All right, welcome back to "One World". I'm Zain Asher.

GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: Have you heard it's happening?

GOLODRYGA: That's my line. The countdown is on for next week's total solar eclipse. We are now just five days away from this rare event where more

than 30 million people across Mexico, the U.S., Canada have the chance to see it as long as cloud cover doesn't get in the way. Maine's governor says

her state has been preparing for the eclipse since last year.


JANET MILLS, MAINE GOVERNOR: We expect tens of thousands of people to travel to Maine to enjoy this incredible event. And we couldn't be more

excited to welcome them. But we want to make sure, too, that residents and visitors alike enjoy the eclipse safely anywhere in the state of Maine.


ASHER: Time now for The Exchange. Joining us live now is NASA's Deputy Director of Heliophysics, Gina DiBracchio. She joins us with her insights

on the eclipse. I was just thinking during the commercial break, the next time we see one of these, my son is going to be 25 years old. So, this is a

big deal, right? The next one isn't for 20 years from now.

For most of us here, we're just sort of excited to put on our glasses and look at it. But for you guys at NASA, this is actually a research

opportunity. There's so much that you're looking to learn from this. Can you just walk us through that?

GINA DIBRACCIO, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF HELIOPHYSICS, NASA: That's right. So, the eclipse is not only an experience that people can view and feel, but

for NASA, we have a bunch of different experiments that we'll be doing. Now, one of them that I like to talk about is on our WB-57 high altitude

research jet. And this jet will be flying across the path of totality while imaging the solar corona, that upper atmosphere of the sun.

Now, taking pictures of it helps us to understand what the composition is of the solar corona, how it's heated to extreme temperatures, and perform

other experiments to really understand physics that's going on at the sun in a way that we can't do these tests every day.

Now, we're also trying to study the upper atmosphere of the earth and understand how the sun and the eclipse impacts the upper atmosphere. We're

launching three sounding rockets from our Wallops Flight Facility, and they'll be launched before, during, and after that peak eclipse. When they

reach their launch height, what they'll be doing is actually measuring that electrically charged region of the upper atmosphere so that we can see how

the sun impacts these layers of the earth's atmosphere.

GOLODRYGA: Now, for those that are trying to watch it or hopefully catch a glimpse, A, they have to protect their eyes and make sure that they're

wearing the special kind of glasses that are needed. But B, according to NASA, to get the full experience, they have to be in the line of totality.

Can you explain what that is and where that is?

DIBRACCIO: That's right. So, for the path of totality, that is exactly where the moon's shadow will be cast as it moves across the U.S., it will

be going from Texas all the way up through Maine. Now, you have to be within that path of totality to view the total eclipse, where the moon is

completely blocking the sun so that you can see that solar corona, the upper atmosphere of the sun.

If you're within the other 48 contiguous U.S. states, you'll be able to see a partial eclipse, which means when you look up at the sky, you'll see part

of the sun covered by the moon, almost like a crescent sun.

And so if you're in that path of totality, during totality, you're able to look up at the sky and experience the eclipse. If you're having a partial

eclipse, that's where you need to really focus on eclipse viewing safety and making sure you're taking the right measures to view the partial


GOLODRYGA: Well, we sadly will be in this studio reporting this spectacular rare event for our viewers. So, we will not be anywhere near the line of

totality, but hopefully some of our viewers will be.


Gina, it may be a surprise to you, but it's not every day that we have somebody, especially an expert in Heliophysics on from NASA.

ASHER: Awesome.

GOLODRYGA: So, we appreciate the time and we'd love to have you back --

ASHER: So grateful.

GOLODRYGA: -- to talk about what else you're working on and focused on. It's really all so fascinating. Thank you.

DIBRACCIO: Wonderful. Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Thank you so much, Gina. It's not just the glasses, but also sunscreen. It's another thing that you need.


ASHER: The sun's power. I've just been researching.

GOLODRYGA: There's a Heliophysics expert sitting right next to me. Join us on Monday, as we said, for the total solar eclipse as it travels from

Mexico across the U.S. and into Canada.

ASHER: And actually, you can experience the total eclipse from several locations with lots of science, lots of excitement along the way. Our

special coverage is starting at 12 noon eastern time. Be right back.


ASHER: All right. Donald Trump's harsh rhetoric about immigrants was on full display in a pair of swing state campaign stops on Tuesday.

GOLODRYGA: Yeah. First in Michigan, he railed against what he called Biden's border bloodbath, blaming the sitting president for crimes

committed by undocumented immigrants inside the United States. He also refused to back down from language that critics say dehumanizes migrants.


TRUMP: The Democrats say, please don't call them animals. They're humans. I said, no, they're not humans. They're not humans. They're animals. Nancy

Pelosi told me that. She said, please don't use the word animal, Sir, when you're talking about these people. I said, I'll use the word animal because

that's what they are.


ASHER: In Wisconsin, Trump went on stage next to an empty podium, saying it was there as an invitation to President Biden to engage in a debate. The

Biden campaign claims Trump is only bringing it up now to distract from all of his financial problems and a lack of a winnable campaign strategy.


TRUMP: We have an empty podium right here to my right. You know what that is? That's for Joe Biden. I'm trying to get him to debate. I'm calling on

crooked Joe to debate any time, any place. We'll do it anywhere you want, Joe, so that we can discuss in a friendly manner the real problems of our

country, of which there are many instead of trying to have corrupt prosecutors to fight your battles for you.


GOLODRYGA: A new poll of voters in several swing states is pointing to a very close race for President. "The Wall Street Journal" poll finds no

clear leader in Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania or Wisconsin, with the difference in support for Joe Biden and Donald Trump well within the

polls margin of error in each case.


ASHER: It finds small leads for Donald Trump in Arizona and North Carolina, with the exception of North Carolina. All of those states went for Biden in

the last election, and he probably can't afford to lose more than two or three of them to win the White House again.

GOLODRYGA: Now, despite the fact that both Donald Trump and Joe Biden have won enough delegates to be their party's nominee, Tuesday's Wisconsin

primary shows they still have some work to do.

ASHER: Yeah, Donald Trump won less than 80 percent of the Republican vote in Wisconsin, with Nikki Haley taking 12 percent, even though she has

suspended her campaign. And Joe Biden again saw a significant protest vote -- 48,000 Wisconsin Democrats chose uninstructed as a way of showing their

disapproval of President Biden's handling of the Israel-Hamas war.

GOLODRYGA: Well, at the White House, there was a potent sign of fraying relations between the Biden administration and Muslim Americans. An Iftar

dinner planned at the White House had to be canceled after people said they didn't feel comfortable breaking bread while people in Gaza are starving. Y

ASHER: Yeah, a Palestinian American doctor then walked out of the downsized meeting, which had been arranged to replace the dinner attended by

President Biden and Vice President Harris. The doctor told CNN that not enough was being done to protect civilians in Gaza.


THAER AHMAD, WALKED OUT OF WHITE HOUSE MEETING: We are not satisfied with what has taken place. There has been no concrete steps. But keep in mind,

we're very concerned about the people that are over in the Gaza Strip, that are in Palestine right now, who are not just starving, but are facing the

threat of a looming Rafah invasion.

And so, I was able to share that with the President and let him know that out of respect for my community, out of respect for all of the people who

have suffered and who have been killed in the process, I need to walk out of the meeting. And I want to walk out with decision makers and let them

know what it feels like for somebody to say something and then walk away from them and not hear them out and not hear their response.


ASHER: Let's bring in CNN's Arlette Saenz. Arlette, you know, if you're President of the United States, it's one thing to sort of deal with

hecklers and protesters at a public event when you're, for example, giving a speech. It's another thing as President of the United States for somebody

to get up and walk out of a private meeting with you.

That is not something that you forget, right? That is something that you are going to remember. Is the President aware of the sort of price he's now

having to pay, especially as we are in the run-up to the election in November, the price he's probably going to have to pay with Muslim

Americans, with Arab Americans in this country when it comes to voters?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the White House and President Biden are aware that they still need to do work with the Arab

American, Muslim American and young voters in this country who are disillusioned and frustrated with the President's handling of the conflict

between Israel and Hamas, specifically when it comes to the humanitarian situation that's unfolding in Gaza.

And as you noted, the President has, when he's out on the road, he has faced these protesters at events, people interrupting him as he's

delivering a speech. But the fact that that doctor, Dr. Ahmed, walked out of a face-to-face meeting with the President really represents probably the

most intimate moment of protest that this President has seen, at least that we know of, so far.

Now, this White House had hoped to host an Iftar dinner inviting senior Muslim administration officials here to the White House, leaders in the

Muslim American community to break the Ramadan fast. But as you noted, that plans for that ultimately were shifted after several of the outside

attendees who were invited felt it would be inappropriate to have a meal with the President. Instead, they wanted to engage in a policy discussion.

And that is what unfolded with roughly half a dozen attendees yesterday.

Now, one attendee told CNN that the President did specifically talk about the deaths of those World Central Kitchen aid workers, something that has

set off personal frustration for President Biden. The White House said that they tried to hear the concerns of those Muslim leaders in this meeting.

But there has been a different range of reactions to how that meeting went down. One person who participated told CNN that it felt more like a P.R.

move. But it really speaks to the challenges that President Biden is facing, not just on the humanitarian front in Gaza, but also the political

front here at home.

As you noted, there have been multiple protest votes in states during the Democratic primary, chief among them being the state of Michigan, where

around 100,000 voters voted uncommitted in protest to the President's handling of the crisis in Gaza. There was an uninstructed vote just

yesterday in the battleground of Wisconsin, where Biden narrowly won against Trump by 22,000 votes back in 2020, really highlighting how

important this constituency could be going forward.

But the White House and campaign have tried to make these overtures to the Muslim American, Arab American and young voters at a time where there has

been widespread frustration about the President's approach, so far.


ASHER: Arlette Saenz, live for us there. Thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: All right, coming up. Some of the biggest names in music are teaming up, but not to collaborate on a song. They're actually worried

about the future of their industry if A.I. takes over. We'll have that story when we come back.


GOLODRYGA: Well, some of the biggest names in music are calling on the industry to protect artists from the threat posed by artificial


ASHER: More than 200 artists, including Billie Eilish, Kacey Musgraves, Ja Rule, Jon Bon Jovi signed an open letter to developers and tech companies.

They're worried about the ways A.I. can clone voices or be used to create music on its own.

GOLODRYGA: The letter says, we must protect against the predatory use of A.I. to steal professional artists' voices and likenesses, violate

creators' rights and destroy the music ecosystem.

ASHER: Yeah, CNN's Entertainment Correspondent, Elizabeth Wagmeister, is following this for us. So, obviously, signing an open letter is an

important step. But what can artists and musicians actually do? What action can they actually take in order to protect their creative work?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: It's a great question because A.I. is a growing concern in Hollywood and certainly in

the music industry. This has 200 artists and this is certainly the biggest show of support that we have seen from A-listers. But to your point, an

open letter is just a letter that raises awareness. But what do you actually do to cause action?

Well, I anticipate that we will see this head into court with various scenarios and also in front of Congress. Earlier this year, Tennessee

became the first state to actually enact legislation to protect the rights of artists and to protect their voice from sound and voice cloning.

Now, in this letter that comes from the Artists' Rights Alliance, which is a non-profit, these artists are calling against their voice being cloned,

essentially their voice being mimicked without their permission. And of course, when it's not their actual voice being used, then they're not

getting paid for it. They're not getting royalties. I want to read you a piece from this letter because they use very strong words in no uncertain

terms. Artists' Rights Alliance signed by these 200 artists.


They say, quote, "Unfortunately, some platforms and developers are employing A.I. to sabotage creativity and undermine artists, songwriters,

musicians and right holders. When used irresponsibly, A.I. poses enormous threats to our ability to protect our privacy, our identities, our music

and our livelihoods.

Now, of course, this technology isn't going away. And there are some benefits and some real innovation that can come from A.I. in the music

space. In fact, last year, the Beatles were able to release what Paul McCartney calls their final song using technology to bring back John

Lennon's voice.

ASHER: Yeah, that is important to note that A.I. can be used for good. But when you talk about and you think about just how it might jeopardize the

livelihood of so many musicians, you think about working musicians.

I mean, it's one thing if you're Beyonce or Katy Perry. But if you're a working musician, if you're just a songwriter, just starting out in the

industry, it can be catastrophic to your livelihood. Elizabeth Wagmeister, live for us there. Thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: And that extends far beyond just the music industry.

ASHER: Right, right. Obviously, we saw it in Hollywood, as well.

GOLODRYGA: Exactly. Well, that does it for this hour of "One World." Thanks so much for watching. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. Amanpour is up next.