Return to Transcripts main page
One World with Zain Asher
Netanyahu Comes Under Increasing Pressure As Ceasefire In Gaza Remains Elusive; Massive Fire Burns In Los Angeles County; U.S. Surgeon General Appeals to Congress To Do Something About America's Growing Mental Health Crisis Among Young People; Kenya Investigates Claims Of Sexual Assault Committed Near A British Training Base North Of Nairobi; Hollywood Stars, Music Legends And The Best Of Broadway Honored On Sunday At The Tony Awards. Aired 12-1p ET
Aired June 17, 2024 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:00:00]
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, war cabinet disbanded. Netanyahu makes a bold move amid calls to set a date for new elections.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: "ONE WORLD" starts right now. Also in Israel, the military announces a tactical pause for aid deliveries along
one road in Gaza. We'll tell you what it all means.
ASHER: Also ahead, missing in paradise. Right now, police are frantically searching for three tourists who went missing on the Greek Isles.
GOLODRYGA: Plus, a tobacco-style warning. America's Surgeon General is speaking out on social media's effect on children.
ASHER: And later, theater's biggest night. Who won, who lost, and who stunned the crowd into a standing ovation? All right, coming to you live
from New York, I am Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. You are watching "ONE WORLD". And we begin with a political shakeup in Israel, as the Prime Minister comes under
increasing pressure eight months into the war in Gaza, with a ceasefire remaining elusive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER (voice-over): An Israeli official says that Netanyahu has disbanded the country's war cabinet, responsible for key decisions relating to the
Israel-Hamas conflict. It was formed in the days immediately after the October 7th Hamas attacks.
GOLODRYGA: Now, this comes after opposition leader Benny Gantz withdrew from the body last week. Something he'd warned about for a few weeks now.
And as far-right ministers expressed interest in joining the war cabinet.
ASHER: Meantime, Israel's military is clarifying what exactly it meant after it announced a tactical pause daily along a very specific route and
at specific times to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza. The IDF says its troops are still fighting in Rafah and across Gaza, as well.
GOLODRYGA: Any additional aid could be a lifeline for Palestinians in dire need of help. But U.N. agencies say that so far they have not yet seen any
improvement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES ELDER, GLOBAL SPOKESPERSON, UNICEF: Any news that means more aid and a restriction on bombing and killing of children is great news, but I think
we have some way to go before we see a reality on the ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: All right, let's bring on CNN's Paula Hancocks, who's tracking all of these developments from Jerusalem. So, Paula, Netanyahu disbanding the
war cabinet. A lot of the decision-making is now going to move to the security cabinet. And then he's going to be holding smaller forums, as
well, when it comes to especially sensitive matters. Just take us through that.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): Well, Zain, what this means is the war cabinet, which was effectively just three men who were the
permanent members. You had the Prime Minister, the defense minister, and Benny Gantz, as you say, has resigned because there was no strategy, he
said, from Netanyahu, no day-after plan.
So, that has been disbanded, but he said that there will still be these small groups that he will, on an ad hoc basis, we understand from an
official, be creating when there are certain strategic decisions that have to be taken. There will also be decisions made by the security cabinet. So,
there are pains to point out that there's not going to be a void or a vacuum in decision-making.
But there are some assessments that what this means is that Netanyahu doesn't have to either accept or reject the request by the far-right
ministers to be part of that war cabinet instead of Benny Gantz. That would really pit this war cabinet against what much of the international
community wants to see, and of course, the U.S. administration as well, as they don't want decisions on the ground to be made by these more far-right
elements within the coalition.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANCOCKS: Are you going to escort these trucks? The military will escort them?
DANIEL HAGARI, REAR ADMIRAL, IDF SPOKESPERSON: Well, this is a war zone, and we need to act inside a war zone and to find inside the complexity the
way to find solutions. The first step is to make sure that the road is safe. The road will be safe. Military-wise, it will be safe in our
planning, in our attacks, et cetera, et cetera.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HANCOCKS (on-camera): So, that was an interview I did a little earlier today with the IDF spokesperson down at the Kerem-Shalom crossing. And this
is part of this service tactical route that they have announced to try and ensure that more aid can be distributed through Gaza. The IDF claiming that
there's more than a thousand trucks on the Gazan side of that crossing, but they haven't managed to be able to distribute it.
[12:05:06]
They're really putting the onus on the humanitarian groups on the U.N. to be able to step up and distribute that. We have spoken to some of those
groups and the U.N. within Gaza, and they say that it's simply too dangerous sometimes to be able to get to this crossing and be able to
collect the humanitarian aid.
OCHA, for example, the humanitarian office, saying that on Sunday, even though there is this tactical route that the IDF says they won't be
attacking, they simply couldn't get to that area because there is this lawlessness within Gaza at this point.
So, it's also very close to where the fighting will continue. We hear from the Israeli military, and we heard it when we were down there as well, the
shelling continuing in Rafah itself. So, at this point, we're really hearing the military saying that the international humanitarian aid groups
need to do more to distribute this aid.
We're hearing from those groups, including the United Nations, that Gaza is the most dangerous place on earth to be a humanitarian aid worker at this
point. UNRWA, for example, says they've had 193 of their workers killed.
ASHER: Gosh, and those statistics come as Palestinians mark one of the biggest holidays on the Islamic calendar, Eid al-Adha, but many saying that
at this point in time, of course, there's very little to celebrate in the enclave. Paula Hancocks, live for us there. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: To help us now unpack some of the developments in the Israel- Hamas war, let's bring in CNN political and global affairs analyst Barak Ravid. He's also a politics and foreign policy reporter with "Axios".
Barak, always good to see you. So, talk to us more about the significance, in your view, of the war cabinet being disbanded, because on the one hand,
it can be viewed as just a formality that was expected given the departure of Benny Gantz and Gadi Eisenkot.
You have others suggesting that the reason that Prime Minister Netanyahu did this was to shield some of the far-right elements and extremists in his
cabinet there from having any say in these really sensitive negotiations about the war.
But something significant did come out of this war cabinet, most recently that ceasefire proposal that seemed to surprise a lot of others in the
government. What does this all mean for us now going forward?
BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Let me start from the bottom line. Netanyahu's decision, which, you know, was made, I think,
already when Benny Gantz left the government more than a week ago and was just announced today, is not really significant at all, meaning it was
clear that this is where things are going when Benny Gantz left the government.
The war cabinet was formed only as part of the coalition agreement with Gantz. This was his main condition. When he's out of this government,
there's no point of continuing this thing. But, you know, in the matter of, you know, reality, Netanyahu never looked at the security cabinet as the
forum to really make big decisions.
It was more like a rubber stamp for decisions that he took on his own or as part of the war cabinet. And I think this is going to continue. He's going
to hold, you know, small consultations with, you know, his close advisors and then just bring things to the security cabinet to be the rubber stamp.
This is how Netanyahu conducted his business for the last 15 years, and I don't see that changing now.
ASHER: And obviously, we can't generalize when it comes to nine million Israelis. But in terms of the perception that ordinary Israelis have at
this point about Netanyahu, obviously one thing that Benny Gantz has said repeatedly is that this is a man who is putting his own political
considerations over coming up with any kind of post-war strategy in Gaza. Do Israelis generally agree with that consensus? What is the overarching
view of Netanyahu eight months into the war?
RAVID: Well, I think every public opinion poll that was conducted since the beginning of the war showed that the majority of Israelis were very
upset and very angry with the Netanyahu government, with Netanyahu personally, wanted early elections. They still want early elections. A poll
that was conducted just a few days ago showed that the majority want elections to be as early as the fall.
Between 60 to 65 percent in almost every poll say that Netanyahu's decision-making is driven by political survival. And I think that those
numbers, they're steady, and if they're going to change, they're just going to change for worse when it comes to Netanyahu and not for the better.
[12:10:08]
GOLODRYGA: And of course, the focus is not just on Gaza, Barak, but also in the north there, an increased escalation in tension and fighting. With
Hezbollah just over the weekend, IDF spokesperson Daniel Hagari said, quote, "Hezbollah's increasing aggression is bringing us to the brink of
what could be a wider escalation, one that could have devastating consequences for Lebanon and the entire region. We know that the U.S.
envoy, Amos Hochstein, is in the region, as well, right now.
If the assumption is that Hezbollah will continue lobbing missiles into Israel as long as the war in Gaza goes on, and we know that could be
months, if not years, how concerned are Israelis? Is the government now that we actually could see a second front really open as opposed to just
increased escalation, you know, by the day, by the month?
RAVID: I think it's a real concern. This is why President Biden's envoy, Amos Hochstein, is in the region. There's no change in where the
negotiations that he's holding with Israel and with Lebanon are. It's more or less the same place.
The only thing that changed is that on the ground the exchange of fire only escalates by the day, maybe sometimes some days by the minute, and this is
why he came here to try and at least tell both parties, you need to, hey, you want to fight? You can't get to any agreement on a calm. Let's at least
try and contain the fighting so that we don't find ourselves in an all-out war between Israel and Lebanon that the war in Gaza, in comparison, will
look like a walk in the park.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, because Hezbollah, we know, has an arsenal tenfold larger than that of Hamas, so a lot of concern that there could be some
miscalculation and risk of an all-out open front. There are now two potentially hot wars in Israel. Barak Ravid, thank you so much for your
time.
ASHER: Thank you, Barak. All right, Joe Biden and Jens Stoltenberg are expected to sit down together in Washington a few hours from now. The
meeting between the U.S. President and the NATO chief comes on the heels of a summit in Switzerland dedicated to finding a concrete formula for peace
in Ukraine. Those talks wrapped up on Sunday, but not everyone agreed to the final statement.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, there were holdouts, including India, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, and the UAE. All of them have close trading relationships with
Russia. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy offered his view at a news conference in Lucerne.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: It's important that all -- all participants of the summit supported Ukraine's territorial integrity because there is, will be no
lasting peace without territorial integrity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: After the Swiss summit, some Ukrainian soldiers say they are hoping for more weapons from allies abroad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (through translator): I think that good sense will prevail. Good sense of the world's country's political leaders will prevail and we will
be given weapons. We will chase away the enemy from the territory of Ukraine because you can talk to them only from the position of strength.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: On the ground, we're hearing there's fierce fighting around the Ukrainian border town of Volchansk. Local officials say Russian forces have
attacked five times just in the past day.
ASHER: All right, here in the U.S., a massive fire is burning in Los Angeles County. The post-fire has scorched nearly 15,000 acres. That's
nearly 6000 hectares.
GOLODRYGA: And at last report, authorities said the blaze, which began Saturday, is only eight percent contained so far.
ASHER: I want to bring in CNN's Camila Bernal, who's joining us live now. I mean, Camilla, this is a fast-moving fire. It's fueled by the humidity,
the winds. Just walk us through where you are in relation to where the fire is blazing.
CAMILA BERNAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Zain and Bianna. So, we are at an area where the fire already came through. And what you can see here is just
the vastness of this fire and what it has done to the terrain, to this entire area. And one thing to keep in mind here is that we had two very wet
winters here in California.
And so, that causes a lot of the grass, the brush, the trees to grow. So, that creates what fire officials call fuel for this fire. It ignites
quickly and it moves fast, especially when you add in the winds like you're seeing right now. You have low humidity and later on in the day, even
higher temperatures. So, those three things just making it difficult for the firefighters here.
They were very concerned about the wind overnight. I spoke to one firefighter a couple of hours ago who told me that he was happy that they
were able to keep those fire lines despite the wind.
[12:15:01]
We saw an increase in containment that went from two percent to now eight percent. So, we did see some improvements, but still a lot of work to be
done. We're seeing crews here on the ground and also communicating with crews in the air.
Yesterday, we were here seeing water drop after water drop, and that has been helpful. But again, there's still just so much to do here in the sense
that the winds pick up and carry those embers and can spread that fire very quickly. About 1200 people were already told to evacuate and others are
under evacuation warnings.
And so, what officials are telling people here is that you have to be ready because at a moment's notice, you may have to evacuate because the wind is
so strong and carrying those flames so quickly and frankly in any direction because the direction of the wind can change and make conditions difficult
for people who live in this area, but also for the firefighters that are working around the clock.
ASHER: All right, Camila Bernal, live for us. Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Allison Chinchar
is watching all of this from the CNN Weather Center. Allison, what can we expect in terms of winds, the weather the next few days as firefighters
continue to fight this blaze, as we said, only eight percent contained.
ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yeah, I think the key thing here has really been the winds. When you look at some of these numbers from over the
weekend, it's impressive. Fifty to even 60-mile per hour winds, and that's what really limited those firefighters over the weekend from making some
more advances in the containment. The hope is that over the next few days, those winds will start to come down.
Now, today, still looking like 40 to 50 mile per hour winds in the forecast, so it is still going to remain difficult. But once we get to,
say, late Tuesday and into Wednesday, notice those winds really do start to come back down, and that will certainly help the firefighters there begin
to really make some big improvements on those containment numbers and really start to bring that fire down.
Now, another thing to note is it's not just California that's dealing with the fire risk, but also areas of New Mexico, Arizona, even up into Utah,
all of these areas looking at those gusty winds, warm temperatures and very low humidities.
Heat is going to be the big story really for a giant chunk of the country. Over 80 percent of the U.S. population is expecting temperatures 90 degrees
or even higher, and for some of these areas, it's so high we're going to be nearing records. We're talking about almost 200 potential high temperature
records that are expected to be set as we go through the rest of the week.
Now, the bulk of those are going to be in the northeast and the midwest, but you'll notice we even have a few dots in the southeast and out to the
west, so a lot of areas are really expected to be impacted by this heat, but it's portions of the northeast and the midwest that are under a lot of
these heat alerts because it's the prolonged nature.
Cleveland, for example, looking at least a five-day stretch of 90 degree temperatures. Caribou, forecast of 99 on Wednesday -- that may break their
all-time record high of 96. So, a lot of these areas looking at extreme temperatures. And ladies, the other thing to note, some of these areas may
not even peak until Wednesday or Thursday of this week.
GOLODRYGA: So basically, Allison is saying that Zain and I are going to be in the bullseye here in New York City --
ASHER: I m looking at the New York temperatures.
GOLODRYGA: -- over the next few weeks. I mean, this is typically where people go to escape the heat in the summer, the northeast, but there's no
escaping it looks like this week at least.
ASHER: I'm literally dreading going outside. It was fine when I came into work this morning, but going out and returning home at one o'clock in the
afternoon.
GOLODRYGA: It's already 80 degrees. I'm looking at my watch here. Unbelievable. Allison Chinchar, thank you.
ASHER: We'll let you go, Allison. Sorry, we're talking to ourselves.
GOLODRYGA: Don't shed too many tears for us here.
ASHER: All right, extremely hot weather isn't helping the search for three tourists missing in Greece. Hellenic police say they're trying to find an
American man who went missing nearly one week ago. They're also looking for two French women who went missing during a walk on another island. In
recent weeks, several tourists have either gone missing or even died while walking in extreme heat.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, Greek officials say it's been hot around 40 degrees Celsius or 104 degrees Fahrenheit. Last week, the Acropolis was closed
briefly due to the high temperatures.
ASHER: Our Clare Sebastian is following this story. So, Clare, it does appear that tourists are kind of unaware at this point in time of just the
severe risks that they face when you're dealing with these kinds of temperatures. I mean, we all remember just recently Michael Mosley, the
famous T.V. doctor, who was found dead because -- for the same similar reasons. Just take us through what you know, so far.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, there does seem to be a pattern, Zain. Michael Mosley, of course, found dead last Sunday on the island of
Simi. He'd been missing for five days. And there were two more bodies found this past weekend. An American was found on Sunday on a small island
northwest of Corfu. He was on a sort of remote and rocky beach.
He's now been identified, Greek police tell us, but has not yet been named. He was 55 years old. And on Saturday, a 74-year-old Dutch citizen was found
on a different island near the coast of Turkey. He was in a ravine where he'd been seen hiking a week earlier.
[12:20:01]
So, it's this pattern of sort of hiking in these very hot conditions in these remote locations. The search now is ongoing for this American, a
retired sheriff's deputy, Albert Calibet is his name. They say that have -- the police telling us that they have narrowed down the search area. They're
looking at a specific part of the island of Amorgos, sort of combing a number of different hiking trails.
And that is not the only search ongoing. Two French citizens in their 60's and 70's, as you say, also missing. The police don't know as much about
their location, but that search continuing. They have been missing since Friday.
And as you say, all of this comes as Greece has been battling these very, very high temperatures, a very early heat wave only in the sort of first
month of summer. So, this has sort of taken some people off guard, it feels like. But certainly, it does seem that the biggest concern at the moment is
tourists embarking on these ambitious hikes in very remote locations.
ASHER: Clare Sebastian, live for us, thank you.
GOLODRYGA: All right, coming up for us, Donald Trump issues a new challenge to Joe Biden, but a verbal fumble makes the challenge actually
fall flat.
ASHER: And we'll look at the two candidates' strategies as they prepare for next week's first presidential debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right, Donald Trump's latest effort to prove that he's mentally fitter than Joe Biden came up a little bit short over the weekend.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, during a speech to a conservative group, Trump challenged Mr. Biden to a cognitive test to prove that he has the mental ability to
meet the demands of the presidency. Have a listen and then pay careful attention to the name of the doctor Trump is talking about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT (R) AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (R): I think he should take a cognitive test like I did. I took a
cognitive test and I aced it. Dr. Ronnie -- Dr. Ronnie Johnson. Does everyone know Ronnie Johnson, congressman from Texas? He was the White
House doctor and he said I was the healthiest president he feels in history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: We should note that the doctor who gave Trump that cognitive test was not Ronnie Jackson, not -- was Ronnie Jackson -- not Ronnie
Johnson. Now, it is worth noting that Trump saw Jackson only two days earlier while he was in Washington meeting with lawmakers.
ASHER: Trump and Biden are sharpening their attacks in the run up to next week's first presidential debate, which takes place, of course, right here
on CNN.
[12:25:00]
GOLODRYGA: And the Biden campaign is making its attack personal, releasing a new ad that puts Donald Trump's legal troubles front and center.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): In the courtroom, we see Donald Trump for who he is. He's been convicted of 34 felonies, found liable for sexual assault, and he
committed financial fraud. Meanwhile, Joe Biden's been working.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Joining us now with his analysis is CNN Politics Senior Reporter Stephen Collinson. So, the Biden campaign is putting in a
significant money in this new ad blitz focusing on Trump's legal woes. I'm wondering if that is viewed as a smart decision, given that there's some
concern among Democrats as to whether his legal woes even have any impact among undecided voters in some of those key swing states, where at least
now, according to polling, Trump continues to have a slight edge.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah, this is a very interesting development, a strategic shift, I think, by the Biden campaign
in the run up to that debate. One of the big questions, as you point out, is not just whether this is really resonating Trump's convictions with
voters, but whether attacking Trump over his conviction and his legal problems would play into his argument that all of this is just a plot
against him, and he's a persecuted political dissident being pursued by the Biden administration to keep him out of the White House. I think it tells
us a couple of things.
First of all, that the Biden campaign has a lot of money and has decided to make this potentially a referendum on Trump's character rather than Biden's
tenure in the White House. It doesn't seem to be making a lot of progress on economic arguments, for example.
And the other thing is that this is a very, very close race. And we're only now, you know, within five months of the election. It's not really
shifting. And I think the onus is on the Biden campaign to try and shake this out of this tie before the summer gets too far advanced.
ASHER: And just in terms of the debate coming in earlier than typically we expect in the campaign season, how much of a chance does that really give
both candidates to shake things up? And this race has been very closed for several months now.
Yeah, and I think that is a symptom of a country that is deeply divided and of the work that Trump has done since leaving office to poison the views of
many people against the last election, against the legal system that's been pursuing him.
So, we'll have this debate at the end of June. As you say, it's at least several months earlier than we're normally used to seeing debates.
Campaigns tend to go a little bit quiet in the summer. Two interesting things here, as well. That would give the President a chance to perhaps
cement a successful debate if he comes out and is seen as winning that debate. But it would also give him a chance before a second debate in
September to try and regroup for one last assault on Trump.
And we should also remember that in September, people start voting, early voting, mail voting in some states. So, although the election is at the
beginning of November, the whole calendar has now been pushed forward in American politics.
So, having a debate in the end of October, as traditionally has been the case, may not influence the campaign that much. So, this is a chance for
the debates perhaps to be more influential than they have been in the past.
GOLODRYGA: And this as we continue to see Trump's rehabilitation tour amongst Republican leadership continue. We saw it last week when he was
with leadership there publicly for the first time in Washington since obviously the events of January 6th.
And today he's going to be meeting with the speaker, Mike Johnson. What is the significance of this? And how closely do you think this, embraced by
Republican leadership -- how is this being watched by voters?
COLLINSON: Well, the Republicans have clearly reconciled themselves to the fact that whatever worries they may have about Trump and his viability, he
is now the best chance for them to get back the White House, the Senate, and to hold on to the House. So, that's what they're doing. They're trying
to coalesce around power.
For people who worry about what a second Trump term might look like and perhaps how the election will unfold, this is quite worrying because it
appears not just that a large sector of the Republican Party has turned against democracy in upholding Trump's false claims of election fraud in
2020. Since his conviction, they have followed the President in turning against the legal system, as well.
I think this is a significant development in American politics and if there is a close or disputed election, and it doesn't seem very likely that even
Trump loses, he's going to walk away.
[12:30:04]
This is quite an ominous development for what might happen in the days and weeks following November's election, I think.
GOLODRYGA: I mean, they've literally followed him into the courtrooms here in New York City during his trial. CNN Politics Senior Reporter Stephen
Collinson. Thank you.
ASHER: Thank you, Stephen. And again, do not forget, we are just 10 days now away from the first debate of the election. You can watch it right here
on CNN on June 27th at 9 o'clock Eastern Time.
ASHER: All right, still to come here, a mental health emergency that demands immediate action. America's top doctors urging Congress to put
warning labels on social media apps. Just how real is the threat? We're going to take a look at that up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right, welcome back to "ONE WORLD". I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. The U.S. Surgeon General is making an urgent appeal to Congress. Do something now about America's growing mental
health crisis among young people. In his strongest language yet, Dr. Vivek Murthy is demanding that lawmakers put a warning label on social media
apps, highlighting the particular danger they pose to teenagers.
In an op-ed in "The New York Times", the country's top medical experts said adolescents who spent more than three hours a day on social media get this
double their risk of depression and anxiety symptoms. And he argued there is still so much we don't know about social media's long-term effects.
[12:35:03]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIVEK MURTHY, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: Not only have companies not demonstrated that their platforms are safe for kids, but there is growing
evidence of harm. So, that's deeply concerning to me, not just as Surgeon General, but as a parent myself. Now, a warning label would help parents to
understand these risks. Many parents don't know that those risks exist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Time now for "The Exchange" and my conversation with Jason Frost. He's the co-founder and president of Wired Human, and he joins us live now.
Jason, thank you so much for being with us. I think, I mean, Bianna and I were talking about this in the commercial break, just how terrifying it is
as mothers when you think about just how addictive social media apps are. We're talking about an average daily use for kids of about five hours a
day.
Like buttons, the infinite scrolling, just so many aspects of it being, I mean, autoplay obviously being so addictive. From your perspective, how
much would a warning label realistically change behavior, do you think?
JASON FROST, CO-FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT, WIRED HUMAN: I think it would make a huge difference. It sets a precedent. And just like cigarettes, when you
go to buy a pack of cigarettes, which does have barriers, you see what kind of consequences you're facing when you're using these products.
And let's just take a quick step back from social media as a whole, that these products are massively dangerous because of the scalability of them
and how they have the ability to reach into every single American home and to the global homes of our society and bypass the role of parenting quite
often.
And so, it is critically important that parents realize what their kids are actually engaging with and that the Surgeon General is speaking the truth
when he's saying that they need to be informed of the very real dangers that these products have.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, Dr. Murthy is quickly taking on the role of owning the mental health space and the risks there, especially from social media and
technology, similarly to the way that I grew up to see Everett Koop. I remember him as a Surgeon General who really was the game changer in
putting on these labels with regards to cigarettes and the warnings there.
As Zain said, you know, we have children. Mine are in this exact age now. I have a 12-year-old son who is desperately begging for apps. We have, thus
far, resisted and --
ASHER: We will continue to do so.
GOLODRYGA: -- likely will continue to do so as long as possible. But there also is the element of stigmas and not being the only parents who restrict
your kids from getting these apps. I mean, how much of the onus is on schools and really the community as a whole to set in restrictions so your
kid doesn't feel like he's being ostracized or punished for, you know, what we all know now would be very beneficial to their mental health. Don't want
that to impact their social life either.
FROST: Yeah, exactly. I think that it absolutely needs to be something that we all band together on. And parents are waking up. They're realizing
the dangers. They're witnessing it within their own homes. And as somebody who runs a youth coalition that meets around the nation with leaders and
tech industry leaders and policymakers with youth to talk about these issues, I often have parents coming to me, sharing with me in private the
hidden journeys they're going through and the shame they feel about those journeys of the exploitation that they're facing and that feeling of
failure as a parent.
But I think what they would be shocked is that so many parents, if not all, are facing those very same challenges in their households. So, the first
thing we need to do is remove shame from the issue that parents feel and recognize the war they're all battling is very real.
And let's just take a step back for a second. When our kids get online, they are not seen by the tech industry as actual human beings. And what I
mean by that is any time we look throughout history and we see radical injustices that have happened to minority groups, and I'm talking about
children in this moment.
They don't have a voice. They don't get to vote. They don't usually get the platform to speak. Once you take away that piece of humanity from them, you
look out throughout history and you see leaders and nations do horrible things to minority groups.
And looking at youth today, when Vivek Murthy says at the end of his article that he wrote or that he had published in "The New York Times",
that you put the thermometer into society to see how healthy we're doing, and kids are crying, they're dying, they're suffering massively under the
burden of social media.
And it's time for us to stand up as a community together as parents, as schools, and say, you know what, we're going to do this better, and we're
going to hold these people accountable. And they are not ones and zeros on this platform. They are human beings. They are the future of our countries
and our nations.
ASHER: So, Jason, how hopeful are you just in terms of changes that we will see in the future? I mean, my kids are five and two, so I think I have
about eight years, I think eight years or so.
[12:40:02]
So, eight years from now, do you think that we're going to be in a better place where parents ban, you know, the whole wait until eighth grade and
that kind of movement? Do you think we're going to be in a better place? Or because of A.I. and making social media that much more addictive, we're
going to be in a worse place?
FROST: I think it's really up to us. It is on us to make a statement, to set the truth free.
There's so much truth out there right now, what social media is doing. And the tech industry, they are the innovators. They have the ability to make
changes right now to protect kids. But the reason they don't is exactly what you just mentioned, is that it is a highly profitable business model.
In the U.S. alone, they're making around $11 billion a year on school-aged children. And they have no incentive at this point to implement any safety
features.
And again, to reference the article that Surgeon General Vivek Murthy put out, and he said that look at all these other industries, like that they
ground an entire line of airplanes because of a door issue. The auto industry used to be massively dangerous. I mean, I remember writing about
this in our book, that we've improved since the 1920s, 96 percent in safety.
But if we were going to look at the 1920s and say we just carried on as it was then, there would be about a million deaths a year in the U.S. But
we've made those changes. We've held businesses accountable to doing better.
So, we need to really focus in also on the legislative end, like with the Kids Online Safety Act, that really requires businesses to put kids and
people before pixels and make those that use the products their priority, not their profits at the end of the day. So in that sense, I do have a lot.
GOLODRYGA: It was interesting also in the Surgeon General's op-ed where he said that companies should be required to disclose the data that they have
on the impact, the negative impacts that social media have specifically on children.
And, you know, up until this point, Jason, we've heard anecdotally from industry executives, heads of these companies, that they themselves do not
allow their children to use these products. Is that data readily available? And how big of a difference do you think that would be if they disclose
that the way the Surgeon General is asking them to, suggesting that they should?
FROST: Absolutely. This would make a huge difference, because what we run into with big tech is they call it proprietary, that they say that they
can't disclose their information of how they reach into every family home, bypass the parent, and engage with their children, with their own values
and their own systems, with the sole purpose of monetizing them for maximum profit. And we're seeing deaths, suicide, eating disorders, and all these
massive, massive consequences of their actions.
And yes, if they had to open up the book or pop the hood, per se, on what they were doing with A.I. and algorithms that analyze billions and billions
of data points, and in microseconds are able to collect that data and then suggest content just to keep those youth and kids hooked a little longer at
the sake of their health and even their lives, I could only imagine we would have a revolution of change in the tech industry if people actually
knew and were fully aware of how dark it is in the way that they are treating our youth online.
ASHER: Gosh, this conversation was overall so depressing. I'm so sorry.
GOLODRYGA: It's so important. Yes.
ASHER: We've got problems. We've got problems.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah.
ASHER: Jason, we have to leave it there.
FROST: I'll tell you something that's not depressing.
ASHER: Tell me quickly.
FROST: I'll tell you really quick. I have a youth coalition of youth voices of your normal, everyday American youth from all different
backgrounds, racial, cultural, economic backgrounds coming together and speaking to leaders across the nation, and they are setting the truth free.
And I just love it.
When they get up, they are pure-hearted. They don't have an agenda. I have an organization. Even myself have something I'm fighting for and connected
to this theme in some way, but they are completely unbound to anything, and they're going and just sharing their experiences and telling the truth.
And when I watch their truth get set free, we've been in front of national leaders. We've been in front of the best minds in the country. We've been
invited to the White House to talk about these issues. When the truth is set free, man, it defends itself.
And nobody has a statement or an argument they can say to a youth who said, for example, one, that my brother lost his life to suicide because of his
engagement with social media and how it depressed him and led him down a dark path.
And these types of stories, they are out there telling the truth. And a statement just to say, what does that say about society when youth have to
be the ones essentially doing our job, when they have to be the ones stepping up to the plate and saying, I'll carry the torch on.
I care about my generation and my brothers and my siblings and my sisters underneath me, and I want a better world than what I was born into. That's
where my hope is, is seeing their courage set free. We can do them justice.
ASHER: That's powerful.
[12:45:00]
That's really powerful. Jason, we're out of time, but we'd love to have you back on.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, please.
FROST: Absolutely.
ASHER: Thank you, Jason. We'll be right back with more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Kenya is now investigating claims of sexual assault committed near a British training base north of Nairobi. Local people told a
parliamentary committee of horrific gang rapes and other forms of sexual violence carried out by British soldiers.
ASHER: Yeah, similar complaints have been made for decades, and I want to warn you, some viewers may find the subject matter very disturbing. Here's
our Larry Madowo with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She's just 17, but Marion lives alone in this single room house. A mixed-race girl in rural Kenya
where nobody looks like her.
MARIAN PANNALOSSY, SEARCHING FOR FATHER: They actually call me poor white girl. I don't know why they call me poor white girl. They always say, why
are you here? Just look for a connection that you will go to your own people. You don't belong in here.
MADOWO (voice-over): Marion's mother, Lydia Juma, was among hundreds of women who accused soldiers from the British Army Training Unit Kenya,
Batuk, of rape. She was interviewed in this 2011 documentary.
LYDIA JUMA, ACCUSED BRITISH SOLDIER OF RAPE: Because in our tribe, we can't report that thing. It's a big shame if you go and say that you have
been raped.
MADOWO (voice-over): Lydia Juma died two years after that interview, and Marion has never met her father. She has to fend for herself in a society
that ostracizes her.
MADOWO: You have not lost hope of finding your father someday?
JUMA: No, I've never lost hope.
MADOWO (voice-over): Mixed-race children keep being born in the remote villages where the British Army trains in Kenya. Generica Namoru says she
was in a consensual relationship with a British soldier while she worked at their base, but she claims he has never supported her since she gave birth.
GENERECA NAMORU, CLAIMS BRITISH SOLDIER ABANDONED DAUGHTER: I'm a woman with a white child. It's not easy for my family, especially because a child
is expensive. She's suffering for no good reason.
MADOWO: So, you just want him to take responsibility for his daughter?
NAMORU: Yeah, nothing else. For him, I want him to take care of the education, health.
MADOWO: Have you ever received a cent from him since she was born?
NAMORU: I've never received any cent.
MADOWO: Generica is jobless and says she has unsuccessfully tried to petition local authorities and the British Army to find her ex-boyfriend.
The British High Commission told CNN it cooperates with local child support authorities in paternity claims. But the Kenya National Commission on Human
Rights says the U.K. government has made no effort to hold soldiers accountable in such cases.
MARION MUTUGI, COMMISSIONER, KENYA NATIONAL COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS: These children really deserve British citizenship. They're British kids.
Their fathers were British.
MADOWO: So, the British government is just not interested in resolving these cases?
[12:50:02]
MUTUGI: We don't think they are interested. We call it BBBB, British Boys Behaving Badly.
MADOWO (voice-over): The U.K. pays Kenya about $400,000 a year to allow up to 10,000 British soldiers to train in the country. Kenya renewed the five-
year deal in 2021 despite opposition from some local groups, lawmakers and human rights defenders.
MUTUGI: We have also had cases where these women and people who have reported have been intimidated. So, there is a conspiracy to make sure that
justice does not happen for these women.
MADOWO (voice-over): Allegations of rape and other crimes including murder, by British soldiers in Kenya date back to the 1950s. These elderly
women accused BATUK officers of rape in the 70s and 80s in a landmark case in London over 20 years ago. Ntoyle Lenkanan says she was one of them.
NTOYLE LENKANAN, ACCUSED BRITISH SOLDIERS OF RAPE (voice-over): I was going to fetch water when I was ambushed by a group of British soldiers who
were hiding in the grass near the river. One of them grabbed me and raped me.
MADOWO (voice-over): In 2007, Britain's Ministry of Defense dismissed over 2000 claims of rape from mostly Maasai and Samburu women saying, quote,
"There was no reliable evidence to support any single allegation." The government in Nairobi lost the case files without explanation.
A Royal Military Police investigation concluded that most of the Kenyan evidence appeared to have been fabricated. One Kenyan official called it a
cover-up. They did not conduct DNA tests on any of the 69 mixed-race children alleged to have been born as a result of rape by British soldiers.
Lawyer Kelvin Kubai is working to reintroduce the case in Kenyan courts. Seventeen-year-old Marian will be the lead plaintiff taking up a fight her
mother didn't win in her lifetime.
KELVIN KUBAI, LAWYER: It is traumatic and it's psychologically disturbing to people like Marian and many others. I continue to see the British
training amidst them with all these unresolved trauma and historical injustices.
MADOWO (voice-over): Larry Madowo, CNN, Nanyuki, Kenya.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: The British High Commission told CNN that it takes all allegations raised by the community seriously and ensures thorough investigations. It
also added that all sexual activity which involves the abuse of power is prohibited. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:55:00]
ASHER: All right, from Hollywood stars to music legends, the best of Broadway were honored on Sunday at the Tony Awards. Yeah, Daniel Radcliffe
showed that he is much more than just "Harry Potter". He took home the Tony for Best Featured Actor in a musical for his performance in "Merrily We
Roll Along". It was his first-ever Tony Award.
ASHER: Hillary Clinton got one of the biggest ovations of the night as she introduced a performance from "Suffs", the play that she produced about the
suffragette movement. She urged everyone watching, of course, to vote this fall. But the buzziest moment of the evening came courtesy of Alicia Keys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALICIA KEYS, SINGER: Are we at the Tony Awards tonight? Had to do something crazy. It's my hometown.
(JAY-Z PERFORMING "EMPIRE STATE OF MIND")
ASHER (voice-over): We're, like, bouncing our shoulders. Getting in that shoulder action. Keys surprised everyone by bringing out Jay-Z. I just love
that song. It reminds me of --
GOLODRYGA (voice-over): It gets me every time.
ASHER (voice-over): Jay-Z came out to rap with her during a performance of "Empire State of Mind". Keys had a pretty good night, too. Her musical
"Hell's Kitchen" won two Tony Awards.
GOLODRYGA: I could just listen to the song every day. We don't even have to sign off. Let's just listen to Jay-Z and Alicia Keys. "AMANPOUR" is
next.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:00:00]
END
