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One World with Zain Asher
NATO Conducts Second Day Of 75th Anniversary Landmark Summit; Norway Announces It Will Send F-16 Fighter Jets To Ukraine This Year; Former U.S. Ambassador to NATO Kurt Volker Says Ukraine Can Win War Against Russia; Airbnb Faces Complaints Of Using Hidden Cameras. Aired 12-1p ET
Aired July 10, 2024 - 12:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ELENI GIOKOS, CNN ANCHOR: Live from London I'm Eleni Giokos. Zain and Bianna are off today. This is "ONE WORLD". Now, the eyes of the world are
on Washington D.C. right now on the second day of NATO's 75th anniversary landmark summit.
Russia's war on Ukraine is at the top of the agenda with the alliance aiming to showcase its ironclad commitment to Kyiv. Earlier, the NATO chief
said he expects allies to agree to what he's calling a substantial package for Ukraine and U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken made this
announcement just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: As we speak the transfer of F-16 jets is underway coming from Denmark, coming from the Netherlands, and
those jets those jets -- those jets will be flying in the skies of Ukraine this summer to make sure that Ukraine can continue to effectively defend
itself against the Russian aggression.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: But the summit is also being overshadowed by uncertainty and questions about Joe Biden's political future. The U.S. President is hosting
the three-day event under intense scrutiny amid deep divisions on how to move forward within the Democratic Party.
In the last hour, we learned actor George Clooney, a major supporter of the Democratic Party is calling on Biden to step aside in an op-ed for "The New
York Times" and one lawmaker is urgently sounding the alarm -- the first Democratic senator to publicly do so, but stopping short of calling on
President Biden to step aside.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): Donald Trump is on track, I think, to win this election and maybe win it by a landslide and take with him the Senate and
the House. I think that we could lose the whole thing. The White House in the time since that disastrous debate I think has done nothing to really
demonstrate that they have a plan to win this election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: CNN's M.J. Lee joins me now live in Washington. M.J., good to have you with us. Look in many ways, NATO will be a public test for President
Biden's mental acuity. His speech is being described as quite forceful at a time where everything he says and he does is under the spotlight. So,
what's happening behind the scenes?
M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, you're absolutely right. This is a hugely significant moment for President Biden as he stands
on the global stage at a moment of real political turmoil for him here at home. You know it's been just about two weeks since that CNN presidential
debate where his performance on that debate stage really shocked a lot of people including his supporters and advisors and a lot of Democrats in his
party.
And the questions that have come out of that debate performance about his age, his fitness to serve, those have come not only just from folks here at
home but have also been questions that have been raised by world leaders and world diplomats.
And, of course, underlying all of that is the broader question of what does this all mean for the election that is coming up here in November and could
this ultimately all lead to Donald Trump having a second term at the White House which a lot of global leaders are nervous and anxious about.
And I think we saw last night when the president delivered those opening remarks here at NATO just how much scrutiny he is under. He did deliver
remarks that were first forceful as described by some and really touched on the themes that are really central to his foreign policy. He was talking
about the importance of protecting democracy all across the world and how he believes in the importance of the U.S.' role in leading those efforts.
But again, coming at a moment of real peril and political peril for him here at home and it was not surprising that there was so much attention
being paid to just his delivery and whether he was able to get through those remarks without having a serious stumble.
GIOKOS: All right, M.J. Lee, great to have you with us. Thank you so much. So, as M.J. just mentioned many NATO leaders are now wondering how Donald
Trump might impact the alliance if he were to win the White House in November. They reportedly want Trump proof aid to Ukraine to prevent the
former president from scuttling the alliance of support for Kyiv.
Now, Trump has long been a critical -- very critical of NATO and we've been hearing that throughout the years and here's what he had to say on the
campaign trail on Tuesday.
[12:05:01]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PREIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (R): I didn't even know what the hell NATO was too much before
but it didn't take me long to figure it out like about two minutes. Sir, may I ask you a question? If we don't pay our bills will you protect us
from Russia? I said you mean you're delinquent? They said yes we're delinquent. Let's say we're delinquent would you protect us? I said, no, I
will not protect you from Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: Strong words there. And for more on this, we've got CNN's international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson to give us some analysis. And
Nic, great to see you. I want to talk about this -- this whole notion of Trump proofing or future proofing NATO and what that would look like if
Donald Trump were to become president again of the United States and I guess he's been promising to dilute NATO and he doesn't stand by NATO. What
are you reading into this?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It is a concern -- very much a concern primarily, President Zelenskyy, because he would be the
most immediately and heavily impacted. I mean, he has said that, you know, the world -- the world is waiting, the United States is waiting, Europe's
waiting, everyone's waiting. President Putin, he said is waiting for November to see what happens in the elections. He says President Putin can
sort of hold out his fighting until the end of the year.
But President Zelenskyy has said, look strong U.S. leadership can help Ukraine win the war and that winning happens with the support of NATO. So,
we understand his view. He said he's not against, you know, the United States people -- people of the United States voting in Donald Trump but he
said he's not somebody that he knows very well. He is clearly anxious.
We heard Secretary of State Antony Blinken today I thought interestingly at the NATO forum kind of laying out something that, I say this, that it was
at the NATO forum because it seemed to be something for sort of domestic U.S. consumption. He said, look, United States is 20 percent of global GDP.
If we add in then our NATO allies, we'll bring that up to 40 or 50 percent of global GDP.
And if we add enough Pacific partners like New Zealand, Australia South Korea, Japan, you bring that block -- that committed block of democracies
up to about 60 percent of GDP. So, what he's really saying here is look, we are more powerful when we have other countries on our side as allies.
It's not really a zero-sum game of who is paying how much although undoubtedly, no one -- NATO, you know, ignores the fact that the United
States puts in, you know, financial terms much more than they do in percentage terms they're all committed to these increases of GDP and may
increase them further.
So, I think you know that's part of the takeaway in the context here that the message, the pre-message is trying to load domestically and
internationally, domestic for the U.S. that NATO is more than perhaps Donald Trump at least says publicly that it is, but the concern's
absolutely there.
GIOKOS: I want to talk about President Biden and you know how everyone is just watching him so closely -- everything he says, everything he does. And
to what extent do you believe that might be overshadowing this NATO summit?
ROBERTSON: The German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, I think, try to sort of head some of this off coming into the NATO summit here. He said that, you
know, he sees no problem with President Biden and he worked with him a few weeks ago in Italy at the G7 when there were, frankly, moments where
President Biden looked as not as sharp as he as he has done subsequently and he turned up half an hour late each day for the summit.
But the German Chancellor really doing what you'd expect all these leaders to do which is -- which is number one support the guy that they would
rather have win and number two, not comment publicly about the state of Biden's abilities -- political, oratorically, or whatever at the moment.
But it -- but the concern for all these ambassadors and heads of state who are gathered at the summit is all the talk about Biden's abilities that
really dilutes from the big message at NATO which is defense and deterrence and Russia being a real and active threat.
GIOKOS: All right, Nic Robertson, good to see you, thank you. Well, Norway has announced that it will send six American-made F-16 fighter jets
to Ukraine this year to help Kyiv defend itself against Russia. As we reported, Denmark and the Netherlands are also sending f-16s to Ukraine.
Norway is especially sensitive to the conflict in Ukraine as it is one of a handful of NATO members sharing a border with Russia.
Joining us now is Norway's foreign minister Espen Barth Eide. Thank you so much, Sir, for joining us foreign minister. I want to start off with the F-
16s that you'll be sending and I want you to give me a sense of the timeline and the delivery of these jets to Ukraine.
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ESPEN BARTH EIDE, NORWEGIAN MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Thank you very much, but first, I have to say I'm the foreign minister not the prime
minister, but thank you, anyway. And I -- so we announced today the donation of six F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine and that is part of a broader
efforts where Belgium, Denmark and the Netherlands are also donating F-16s, that means donating the aircraft, but also teaching pilots and operators
and maintenance personnel and also providing equipment.
So, that this can be actively used and we hope that this will enhance Ukraine's capacity to, you know, to have better control of their own
airspace to defend themselves in the air but also to give some long-range capacities to Ukraine which are useful in in hitting behind enemy lines on
the battlefield.
GIOKOS: So, in a sense -- give me a sense of, you know, what the delivery time is. I'm hearing that it could take a few years -- over the next few
years and if that's the case, is there a sense that this could be a prolonged war?
EIDE: Well, I mean you always need to prepare for this being a prolonged war. Of course, we would hope to see this having, you know, a decisive
outcome in Ukraine's favor soon. But I think it's wise when you're in war or when you're supporting your friends who are in war that you plan for the
long run and you hope for an earlier outcome.
And of course, even after the war when Ukraine has prevailed and when we collectively have showed the President Putin that this type of behavior
cannot be accepted in Europe, Ukraine still needs to need to defend itself.
So, there's no shortage in need to build the Ukraine defensive capacities and by assisting them in moving from sort of a Soviet-era MIGs and Sukhois
and into very modern equipment also in the air, we supplement, you know, the brave and very committed, the people in Ukraine with equipment that
will be -- we believe be very helpful this has been aircraft that has been extremely useful in protecting Norway and Belgium and Netherlands and
Denmark from all these years. And now, we have upgraded them and we give them to Ukraine.
GIOKOS: Yeah, all right. I want to talk about what's happening in the United States and the scrutiny that President Biden is under and the
confidence in him. Does Norway have confidence in President Biden and being at this NATO summit and of course, hearing what he has to say, engaging
with the United States-- what's been the sense on the ground?
EIDE: So -- so, we are attending an international meeting of 32 countries and many partners on top of that at the very critical moment and my
emphasis is on working well with America whoever runs America and democracies are complex constructions but they are the best way of
governance in our view and we will respect whatever happens whether it's happening in the elections or before.
We want to work with any American leader and we want to convey one key message which is that America has been an excellent partner over these 75
years. We are also doing our best. We have heard the message that came from Obama, from President Trump, from President Biden that Europe needs to do
more and that message was heard.
And the vast majority of European partners are no way above two percent including my own country, Norway, we are actually heading towards three
for our case -- three percent and that is before -- because it's the right thing to do but it's also because we think this -- this was an important
ask from the biggest member of the Alliance. So, I don't want to comment on the specifics of American internal discussions, but I expect to be working
well with whoever is the future President of the U.S.
GIOKOS: Absolutely. You know, as a final question what does Norway hope to get out of this NATO summit? What are your expectations?
EIDE: I think it is, you know, NATO is in many ways coming back to its original core purpose, you know. In the meantime, we've been out there
meandering into terrorist, you know, protection against terrorism, asymmetric threats -- these are all important and worthwhile issues. But
now, we are again seeing that we have territorial war, state against state, interstate war in Europe and potentially also in all the parts of the
world. I mean there are tensions growing also in Asia and that is very much was NATO was set up to do in this very city of Washington 75 years ago.
And we want to make sure that it's prosperous, united and looking into the future because we have all the classical threats. But on top of that, we
have outer space, we have cyber, we have a critical infrastructure, we are much more connected countries now.
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And these are issues that we want to deal with at this summit.
GIOKOS: All right, Norwegian Foreign Minister Espen Barth Eide, thank you so much for joining us. Good to have you on the show, much appreciated.
Well, new developments now in that horrific strike on Ukraine's largest Children's Hospital as volunteers work to clear the rubble weapons. Experts
tell CNN, it is highly likely a Russian cruise missile caused Monday's death and destruction.
Russia is denying it was responsible saying the hospital in Kyiv was hit by a stray Ukrainian air defense missile. Across Ukraine, at least 44 people
have died as a result of Monday's air strike. In the meantime, we have live pictures coming through from Capitol Hill for NATO summit. As you can see,
Ukrainian President Zelenskyy meeting up with senators as he tries to rally more support for Ukraine.
The U.S. and other countries have pledged more weaponry for Ukraine and of course this is one of the most important stories. This, after we saw
multiple strikes around Ukraine earlier this week and of course that Children's Hospital very much being top of mind not only for the leaders in
NATO but also for what we've been seeing in Ukraine on the ground.
We've got Fred Pleitgen standing by who is in Kyiv for us. Fred, as we're covering the NATO summit that's dominating headlines. But also, you're on
site at that Children's Hospital and multiple strikes in Kyiv. Tell us what you've learned.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and it's really interesting also to see how all that plays into what's going on at
the NATO summit. Obviously, the strike here on this Children's Hospital, the fact that the Ukrainians are saying that they need better air defense
systems.
But of course, also in general, better air capabilities and that interview that you just did Eleni, with the foreign minister of Norway was really
exceptional because it's one of the things that does showcase why the Ukrainians believe that those F-16 jets for instance are so important.
The Ukrainians have said that they believe that F-16s will help them to bolster their air defense capabilities. Obviously, those jets capable of
taking down for instance cruise missiles out of the air, but also as the foreign minister was just saying in your interview, to help Ukraine guard
its own airspace better than it is able to right now with the old Soviet era jets that they currently have.
And one of the things that Ukrainians have been saying, Eleni, is that the Russian Air Force is now much more capable at attacking Ukrainian frontline
positions because they've developed bombs with which they can strike those positions further away from the actual frontline and the Ukrainians hope
that those F-16s with their more powerful radars are able to engage those Russian Air Force jets and hopefully keep them away from Ukrainian
frontline positions.
So, that definitely is something where the Ukrainians hope that all that could make a very big impact. And then of course, you have the suffering
really of the Ukrainian civilians you see behind me that destroyed hospital complex that was hit, the biggest Children's Hospital in all of Ukraine. Of
course, President Zelenskyy, whom we just saw there at the NATO summit, very angry about all this. I want to listen into some of what he said
earlier about the bombing of this hospital.
GIOKOS: And so, Fred, before you go, before we head into that sound bite, we're seeing live pictures there of Jens Stoltenberg, NATO chief, as well
as President Biden at the NATO summit, as of course, NATO summit heads into its second day, vital conversations happening to give support to Ukraine.
And again, on the back end of this, and I think for many people on the ground in Ukraine remembering what atrocities have occurred over the last
two and a half years, but also that Children's Hospital as more pledges come through to support President Zelenskyy.
All right, Fred, you were saying that that the people you've been speaking to on the ground have harrowing stories to tell you about the realities as
I guess many people meet in the boardrooms and on stage to discuss what kind of support they'll be giving to Ukraine they're living, it's in real
terms, and they need urgently to see a lot more support.
PLEITGEN: Yeah, they certainly do and that's certainly one of the things that they say. And just to give you one example, Eleni, as we've been
speaking right now, we've been speaking about the death toll of those attacks that occurred on Monday and the Ukrainians now coming out and
saying actually right now the death toll has changed because now a little boy has been confirmed to have been killed on the strike here in the
hospital that you see behind me.
This just came through from official Ukrainian politicians just a couple of minutes ago. So, the death toll in this area where I am right now has now
risen to three with a small boy now being confirmed dead and that's of course one of the reasons why so many Ukrainians are also looking to that
summit that is taking place there and some of the pledges that are happening.
Of course, aside from the F-16s that we were just talking about, air defense, really, is the name of the game. We heard the speech yesterday
from President Biden where he pledged additional Patriot surface-to-air missile systems, other types of long-range surface-to-air missile systems,
as well.
But one of the other things that the Ukrainians were looking at were the dozens of intermediate and short-range surface-to-air missile systems that
President Biden was also speaking about because one of the things that the Ukrainians have said is that the hospital complex that you see behind me
was bombed yesterday, they say, by a Russian cruise missile and of course those intermediate range surface-to-air missile systems very capable of
taking those kind of missiles down.
So, the Ukrainians are saying all the things that are happening at that summit are absolutely key for them not just to keep their population safe
now, but of course, at the same time, you've also had the Russians drastically increase their attacks on civilian infrastructure and critical
infrastructure, like heating plants, like electrical plants. And, of course, the Ukrainians say, if they're not more capable of defending that,
a lot of people are going to be freezing and be without electricity once the winter comes here in Ukraine, Eleni.
GIOKOS: Yeah. And that's the reality of what we're seeing on the ground in Ukraine, an important moment. You've got Jens Stoltenberg, President
Biden there in Washington, D.C., for that 75th NATO summit, greeting all the NATO leaders, Greek Prime Minister Mitsotakis is there on stage right
now. We're following and tracking the story as it plays out. Fred Pleitgen in Kyiv, thank you so much. We've got much more ahead on 'ONE WORLD". Stay
with CNN.
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GIOKOS: There are new calls for Joe Biden to step aside and his runoff for re-election. This time, it's coming from one of the most famous Democrats
in the country. Actor George Clooney has penned a scathing op-ed in "The New York Times". Clooney hosted a star-studded fundraiser for Biden just
weeks ago, and he says the Biden -- that Biden met that night and he was a diminished man, similar to the version of Biden that stumbled so badly at
the presidential debate.
He writes, "Our party leader needs to stop telling us that 51 million people didn't see what we just saw. We're also so terrified by the prospect
of a second Trump term that we've opted to ignore every warning sign. We are not going to win in November with this president."
GIOKOS: I want to bring in our CNN's Arlette Saenz, who's at the White House. Quite a surprise coming through from George Clooney in this op-ed.
Tell us more about what he had to say and what impact this could possibly have on the support system around President Biden at this juncture.
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Eleni. This "New York Times" op-ed from George Clooney is significant. George Clooney is not a
random celebrity weighing in on the 2024 campaign, but Clooney was one of those key stars who headlines that Hollywood fundraiser for President Biden
just about 10 days before his debate against Donald Trump.
And in this new "New York Times" op-ed, Clooney bluntly says that he does not believe Democrats will win in November with President Biden at the top
of the ticket. He said that the Biden that he saw in Los Angeles in mid- June is not the same Biden as he had seen in the past, and that it was time for party leaders like Chuck Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries, and also former
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to encourage the president to step aside from this race.
Now, George Clooney has been a long-time Democratic donor. He supported former President Barack Obama, supported Joe Biden back in 2020, and helped
Biden bring in a significant amount of cash, more than $30 million at that Los Angeles fundraiser alone.
As we're still waiting to gauge, like, how exactly the Biden campaign is impacted by this announcement, the Biden campaign spokespeople simply
pointed back to the fact that President Biden has repeatedly said that he is remaining in this race. Now, Clooney adds to the growing chorus of
concerns within the Democratic Party about keeping Biden at the top of the Democratic ticket in November.
The president, behind the scenes, has been working to try to shore up support with key groups, calling in to a meeting of the Congressional Black
Caucus, calling into a meeting of his donors, another one with Democratic mayors. Today, here in Washington, he met with union leaders at the AFL-
CIO, saying that unions are critical to this economy, critical to American voters.
And so, the president is trying to shore up that support, but, at the same time, you have these pockets within the Democratic Party who are speaking
publicly and privately, calling for the president to step aside. Now, moments ago, another Democratic House member called for President Biden to
step aside, bringing that number to eight people publicly saying that there are many more behind the scenes who have expressed concerns about whether
Biden can win in November.
So, for the president, he's insisting that he is remaining in this race, but still there are Democrats raising questions about whether that's
actually his final decision, and some are still pressing him to drop out of this race to give Democrats a better shot against Trump.
GIOKOS: All right, Arlette Saenz, thank you so much for that update. You're watching "ONE WORLD" on CNN and just ahead, more on President Biden
under intense scrutiny at the NATO summit. This is a critical week for his re-election bid. We'll take a closer look at how he's being tested on the
world stage. Stay with CNN.
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GIOKOS: Welcome back to "ONE WORLD", I'm Eleni Giokos. More now on our top story. World leaders are arriving right now at the NATO summit in
Washington. We've already learned F-16 fighter jets from Denmark and the Netherlands will begin arriving in Ukraine this summer.
As you can see, there's live pictures coming through from Washington, D.C. The current U.S. Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, also says that there's
plenty of attention on the U.S. and Joe Biden. He's hosting the Washington gathering, which is shaping up to be a test for Mr. Biden to try and show
he can handle another four years in the White House.
It's time now for our Exchange. Joining us is Kurt Volker. He is a former U.S. ambassador to NATO and he's also served as U.S. special representative
for Ukraine negotiations. Ambassador Volker is currently a distinguished fellow at the Center for European Policy Analysis and a senior advisor at
the Atlantic Council.
So great to have you with us. Thank you so much for taking the time. I want to start off with one of the biggest questions around this war, which has
been going on for two and a half years. The big concern remains that Ukraine isn't getting weapons quickly enough and the type of weapons that
it actually needs. Give us a sense of whether you believe, if NATO had been far more decisive in its approach, whether we'd still be having this
conversation today. And do you believe that there is a consensus to do that?
KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: First off, there could have been consensus if the U.S. had been willing to lead more a year ago, a year
and a half ago, even two years ago. What we've seen is incrementalism and hesitation, saying that we would not provide certain weapons before
deciding to provide them later, providing them slowly, not in the numbers needed.
So, a lot of half steps along the way, all because of fear of escalation. Well, Putin took advantage of that fear and escalated anyway and has
created the situation that we face today. I think back particularly to last winter when the Russians were able to dig in and put in place massive
defensive fortifications along the front line in Ukraine that blunted a Ukrainian counter-offensive. That could have been prevented had we acted
more quickly.
GIOKOS: I remember during, you know, the beginning of the war, there were certain weapons that were just always a very hard no, and then eventually
we started seeing NATO members starting to ease up what they were willing to supply Ukraine.
Do you think that was a fundamental mistake that we've just been seeing weapons that have been given to Ukraine in a piecemeal fashion? And as you
say, Putin took advantage of that approach initially, but what should they be doing right now? Are you content with what you're seeing in terms of
what's been put on the table?
VOLKER: No, I'm still not content with what we're seeing. The rhetoric coming from the president yesterday in his speech at the Mellon Auditorium
was great when it talked about the threat. It said Putin wants to annihilate Ukraine, wipe it off the map. That's exactly true. But we are
not doing what it takes then to stop that.
Just providing five more air defense batteries is not enough. We need to have a strategy for how to get Ukraine what it needs to win, what it needs
to defeat Russian forces, and that is not what we are doing right now. We still need to get serious about that.
GIOKOS: Ambassador, I just want to draw our attention to our viewers. We've got live pictures coming through from Washington D.C. We've got the
family photograph of all the NATO members, President Biden and, of course, NATO Chief Jens Stoltenberg on stage right now. Of course, what they want
to project is a unified NATO, a strong NATO, a NATO that can deal with all the issues and challenges that come their way. But, Ambassador, I want to
ask you this. Do you believe that NATO is unified right now?
[12:35:00]
Because one of the biggest focal points domestically in the United States is President Biden's capability to run for another four years, which has
perhaps overshadowed the summits in a big way.
VOLKER: Well, first off, when it comes to NATO unity, I think there is unity when it comes to a commitment to collective defense of current
members of NATO. I don't think there's any doubt that NATO allies would band together and fight together if anyone was attacked, and that's the
core of NATO. But NATO is not unified when it comes to ending the biggest war in Europe since World War II, which is raging on right now. We have to
be able to give Ukraine what it needs to win the war, and that is something that the U.S. and others still hesitate about. There are still restrictions
on the use of weapons that the U.S. provides, and other weapons are still off-limits. So, we've got to get over that.
As far as concerns about the future of U.S. leadership go, those are very serious concerns, and you might say there's unity there in NATO because
everybody has those concerns. They saw the debate performance of President Biden. It made them wonder whether he is capable of leading the United
States and the alliance right now, let alone six months from now running for re-election. So, that is a concern that many allies already have.
Then, if he is replaced, will that person win? What will that person's views be? Or if President Trump is re-elected as president and comes back,
what will he do about leading the alliance and helping Ukraine win the war?
GIOKOS: You know, there's been a lot of talk about Trump-proofing NATO or future-proofing NATO. What do you think that would mean in terms of--
practically, what does that look like?
VOLKER: Well, I think it's the wrong framework to talk about Trump- proofing or Biden-proofing or whatever. We should talk about what are the long-term structural steps we should be taking to guarantee that Ukraine
wins. And there are a few that we should be doing. We should establish a fund at NATO based on the current cost-share arrangements of NATO, where
the U.S. pays about 20 percent, a fund of at least 100 billion euros that would provide stability and certainty in military aid to Ukraine.
This command that's being set up as part of the summit decisions to help Ukraine prepare for NATO membership, that's good, but we should be inviting
them to start accession talks for NATO membership right now. We should also be helping Ukraine with air defense directly. We have adjoining NATO
territory in Poland and Romania, and we can project forward to protect Ukrainian civilians, critical infrastructure, energy infrastructure, and so
forth.
We should be doing that. And we should be maintaining a presence in the Black Sea under Turkish leadership, the biggest ally in the Black Sea
region, to show that we support freedom of navigation. We do not accept that Russia can threaten international shipping in the Black Sea. Those are
a number of steps we could be taking today that we are still not taking.
GIOKOS: We're still not taking, and you said for Ukraine to win this war, so let me ask you flat out, do you believe that Ukraine can win this war?
VOLKER: Absolutely. It's a matter -- there's no doubt that the West has vastly more resources than Russia does. Our combined economies of the E.U.
and the United States are 22 times the size of Russia. If we wanted to put effort into this to make sure that Ukraine has what it needs to win, we
could do that. The fact is we still haven't made the decision to do so.
GIOKOS: Ambassador Kurt Volker, thank you so much for joining us. Good to have you on the show, and thank you so much for your insights. Thank you,
Sir. And still to come, police have recovered thousands of images from hidden cameras at Airbnbs across the country. Up next, a CNN investigation
on how Airbnb works to keep that story quiet.
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[12:41:24]
GIOKOS: Welcome back. A CNN investigation into Airbnb has uncovered shocking evidence and horror stories of hidden cameras. Now, the company
has not only failed to protect guests from being recorded, but also worked to keep the complaints from going public. CNN's Kyung La has this exclusive
report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHLOE LEBRUMENT, FOUND HIDDEN CAMERA IN AN AIRBNB: It was just like, holy crap. This is a camera.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): But it didn't look like a camera. It was a phone charger. Chloe Le Brumier's
fiance had grabbed it from the bedroom wall of their Airbnb thinking it was hers.
LEBRUMENT: The Airbnb host had called us on the phone and told us that we had taken a charger that did not belong to us and that we needed to return
it immediately.
LAH: At what point did you think, this isn't really a charger?
LEBRUMENT: He became increasingly paranoid. When am I getting this charger back? I think it was like a light bulb moment that we all just went, oh my
goodness, is this a hidden camera?
LAH (voice-over): Across North America, police have seized thousands of images from hidden cameras at Airbnb rentals, including people's most
intimate moments.
LAH: What happened when you realized that there was a camera in that charger?
LEBRUMENT: It's so eerie and so creepy. Then your brain starts thinking, what did they see? What happened while we were in that room?
LAH (voice-over): In a small town in Maine, a couple found a hidden camera at their Airbnb. Listen to what the host told police.
UNKNOWN: So, they had sex?
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
UNKNOWN: And you recorded that?
UNKNOWN: I took some screenshots.
LAH (voice-over): The host admits he set up a camera hidden in this clock next to the bed to record unsuspecting guests.
UNKNOWN: So, there's stuff of a couple of couples playing around or getting changed. So--
UNKNOWN: Okay, so there's pictures of people that are in intimate situations?
UNKNOWN: Yes.
UNKNOWN: Okay.
LAH (voice-over): It's more than just a few reported cases, and Airbnb knows it's a problem. In this deposition reviewed by CNN, an Airbnb rep
said 35,000 customer support tickets about security cameras or recording devices had been documented over a decade. Airbnb told CNN a single
complaint can involve multiple tickets. And a CNN investigation found Airbnb not only fails to protect its guests, it works to keep complaints
out of the courts and away from the public.
LAH: Why don't we know about this?
BELKIS PLATA, REPRESENTED CLIENTS WITH CLAIMS AGAINST AIRBNB: They're trying to keep it secretive. And if everyone knew what was happening, they
would not be using their website.
SHANNON SCHOTT, REPRESENTED CLIENTS WITH CLAIMS AGAINST AIRBNB: Airbnb wants to wash their hands clean when they have a host who does something
illegal or suspicious. They want to say we are simply a website, we are not responsible for this host, we are not responsible for this property.
LAH (voice-over): Florida attorneys Belkis Plata and Shannon Schott say trying to sue Airbnb if something goes wrong is extremely difficult. It
begins when you sign up on Airbnb's website and click agree to its terms of service. You're agreeing to assume all risk.
PLATA: The person going to rent the property agrees that if something happens while they're staying at this accommodation, they're actually
prohibited from suing Airbnb. They must go a different route, which is a binding arbitration. It's a way to strong-arm someone.
LAH: Is this about controlling publicity?
SCHOTT: Hundred percent.
PLATA: Absolutely.
LAH (voice-over): Once they've settled a claim, Airbnb has required guests to sign confidentiality agreements, which CNN obtained, that keep some
details of legal cases private.
[12:45:03]
PLATA: For you to get the check, you must sign the piece of paper so that no one will know. This will be swept under the rug.
LAH (voice-over): That's exactly what happened to this man.
LAH: How did you feel signing that confidentiality agreement?
UNKNOWN: Dirty.
LAH (voice-over): This man asked us not to show his face and we've masked his voice. He and his wife were recorded during a romantic getaway.
UNKNOWN: They had intimate footage of my wife and I. The sexual union between two people is sacred. It felt like an extreme violation of our
marriage. It's devastating. It's a travesty.
LAH (voice-over): In this case and others, CNN found that Airbnb does not contact law enforcement once hidden cameras are discovered, even if
children are involved. Recording someone without their consent is illegal in every state.
UNKNOWN: If people are out sharing their stories of how they were victimized through the services of Airbnb, nobody's going to want to trust
them.
LAH (voice-over): This man only found out he and his wife were recorded because police called him months later after another guest found the
camera.
UNKNOWN: And they explained that every single room in the house had cameras.
LAH (voice-over): Every room?
UNKNOWN: The cameras were hidden in smoke detectors.
LAH: Part of the challenge is that the technology has gotten so advanced, these cameras so small that you can't even see them. In this one bedroom,
we have put multiple cameras all around, and they're hidden in plain sight. This one is in the smoke alarm, an alarm clock, and even an outlet. Some of
them, like this one, I can control remotely on my phone and even livestream. What would you like to tell Airbnb?
UNKNOWN: By not doing their due diligence, they're harming families, and they're selfishly making a lot of money while doing that.
LAH (voice-over): Airbnb declined an interview for this story but told CNN, incidents of hidden cameras are exceptionally rare, and when we do
receive an allegation, we take appropriate swift action, which could include removing hosts and listings. Airbnb's trust and safety policies
lead the vacation rental industry.
LAH: After CNN began reporting this story, Airbnb created a new policy that indoor cameras are not allowed inside Airbnbs at all. But as you just
saw, it has long been against Airbnb rules that cameras be allowed inside bedrooms. And as you just saw, that didn't stop some hosts from doing it
anyway. Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:50:27]
GIOKOS: Welcome back. And NASA astronauts stuck on the International Space Station and say they are confident that Boeing's Starliner will bring them
home safely. Suni Williams, as well as Butch Wilmore, gave an update just a short time ago aboard the space station where they have been for more than
a month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUNI WILLIAMS, NASA ASTRONAUT: We've practiced a lot, so I have a feeling, I have a real good feeling in my heart that this spacecraft will bring us
home, no problem. But like Butch said, we're learning now to optimize our specific situation and make sure that we know everything about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: Well, Boeing's Starliner experienced technical issues in its flight on the 5th of June. And on the ground, NASA is working quite hard to
try and figure out how to get them home. We've got KristIn Fisher to try and explain some of the stress. You know, when I see this story, the first
thing that comes to mind is, do they have enough supplies for their return back home to be delayed? Give us a sense of what's going on right now.
KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: They do. I mean, these astronauts right now are safe and sound up at the International Space
Station. And NASA and the Russians, Roscosmos, and all of their European partners, they plan for contingency upon contingency. So supply-wise, at
least for now, they're good.
Although I'm sure for those two Starliner astronauts, Butch and Suni, there are probably a few personal items that they would have liked to have
brought with them if they knew that they were going to be up there for several weeks, if not months, as opposed to the original eight-day mission,
which was the original plan.
A few things that we learned. This was the first time that those two astronauts have really taken any kind of questions from reporters since
arriving at the International Space Station and since we learned about those problems with the Starliner spacecraft, helium leaks and issues with
the thrusters.
So, during this press conference, we heard that both Butch and Suni say that they remain confident that this spacecraft will be able to get them
back to Earth safe and sound. The big question, though, is when. And so far, we still don't have an answer to that, Eleni.
Right now, NASA and Boeing officials are holding a press conference, so we may get a more targeted date in just a few minutes. But as of now, the work
that's being done is to continue to test those thrusters, not just in space, but on Earth. They're testing replicas of those thrusters in White
Sands, New Mexico, right now. And so, they're really hoping to get more data on that before they finally give those astronauts the green light to
go home, Eleni.
GIOKOS: Yeah, I want you to perhaps help me understand because from what I've read is the spacecraft's helium leaks as well as the thrusters, as
you've just mentioned, are the issue. They're trying to work out scenarios to test them on Earth. I mean, what are the worst-case possibilities here?
Have we heard anything in terms of the fear around this? Because it sounds like, overall, and I've mentioned this, quite a scary story to be stuck.
FISHER: So NASA pushes back on that word stuck, right? They say they're not stuck. And the reason why is because there are other spacecrafts that
could, in a worst-case scenario, get those astronauts back to Earth. You've got the SpaceX Dragon capsule and a Russian Soyuz. So they will get back to
Earth eventually. The question is when and on what spacecraft.
If it is not on the Boeing Starliner spacecraft, that is going to be a massive, massive blow for Boeing and for NASA's Commercial Crew Program.
But in terms of, you know, how serious the helium leak and the thrusters are, NASA has already given the Starliner spacecraft the green light to
return those astronauts to Earth on Starliner in an emergency.
And, in fact, they did take shelter in there in an emergency situation when debris from that Russian satellite got too close to comfort to the ISS. So,
it's been given the green light in an emergency. They just haven't been given the green light in a nominal or normal situation. Eleni.
GIOKOS: All right. Kristin Fisher, great to have you with us. Thank you for laying some of my fears as I read this story. I think many people are
watching closely. Good to have you on. All right. So, Britons have sent countless times and have seen it countless times during some of the most
special occasions.
And now for the first time ever, visitors can get up and close look at the iconic balcony. Buckingham Palace has opened up tours of the East Wing.
Visitors won't be able to go on the balcony, but they can look through the curtain down the mall, which is, of course, very exciting.
[12:55:00]
The East Wing may be sold out, but the tickets are still available for the state rooms. So, you want to grab them as soon as possible. Well, that does
it for this hour of "ONE WORLD". I'm Eleni Giokos. Thanks so much for joining us. "AMANPOUR" is up next. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
