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One World with Zain Asher

Russia Expands Evacuation Amid Ukrainian Offensive; Ukraine Says It Does Not Intend To Annex Russia's Kursk Region; Trump Sits Down For Conversation With Elon Musk On X; Firefighters Make Progress Containing Blaze Near Athens; Kim Jong Un Rejects Foreign Aid, Touts Self-Reliance; Pennsylvania Voters Explain Who They'll Vote For In November; Starliner Astronauts In Space Nearly 69 Days And Counting. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired August 13, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:44]

ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: All right. Ukraine says it has seized as much land in a week as Russia has so far this year.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: ONE WORLD starts right now.

Ground incursion. Ukraine says, the sooner the strikes are over, the sooner its troops will retreat.

ASHER: And self-obsessed. Rich guys who can't control a livestream. The Harris campaign strikes back at Donald Trump and Elon Musk.

GOLODRYGA: From bye, bye, bye to high, high, high. You can see our producers thought I couldn't do that.

Why the boy band classic is once again at the top of the charts.

All right. Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. You are watching ONE WORLD.

More than one week after a surprise cross-border incursion, Ukrainian troops are on the move, following the largest attack on Russian soil since

World War II.

GOLODRYGA: And another district in the Southwest's Kursk region is evacuating residents, as Ukrainian troops expand their offensive. Kyiv says

it has seized as much land in a week as Russia has so far this year.

Russian President Vladimir Putin says it's an attempt by Ukraine to destabilize his country, and he's promising to kick the enemy out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The main task is certainly before the Ministry of Defense. To squeeze out, knock out to the

enemy from our territories, and together with the border guard service, ensure reliable protection of the state border.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: The ground attack signifies a shift in tactics for Ukraine two and a half years after Moscow launched its full-scale invasion.

And the lightning quick advance caught the Kremlin off guard. In a video released Monday, a Ukrainian soldier said that Sudzah, a city in the Kursk

Region, was not under Russian control, and no Russian soldiers were found following a search of the area.

GOLODRYGA: Meanwhile, U.S. Senators Richard Blumenthal and Lindsey Graham met with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy in Kyiv on Monday. Here's

how Graham described Ukraine's cross-border attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): What I think about Kursk, bold, brilliant, beautiful. Keep it up. Putin started this. (BLEEP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: CNN's Fred Pleitgen joins us live now in Berlin.

So, Fred, you think about the past two years in the trajectory of this war, and how many times the U.S. has actually warned Ukraine not to strike

inside Russian territory. And now you have this cross-border invasion. Just curious how the U.S. is reacting to this.

And also, how much this really changes the dynamics of this war, do you think?

FREDERICK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all -- first of all, the U.S. government so far has been fairly muted on

this topic. They've at least, on the face of it, said that they are not necessarily against what the Ukrainians are doing right now.

But, of course, it is a bit difficult for the U.S. because there are a lot of longer-range weapons that the U.S. is not allowing the Ukrainians to use

against Russian territory, like for instance those ATACMS missiles, but others as well, which they're allowed to use in the border area, but not

further into Russian territory.

And, of course, also just the imagery of United States, for instance, military gear on Russian territory advancing is something that could really

make the situation a lot more difficult.

The same, by the way, is true also here in Europe with the Germans exactly the same thing. There is a lot of discussion about the Ukrainians using

German infantry fighting vehicles, for instance, to advance onto Russian territory. Of course, a lot of history there and a lot of issues there for

the Germans as well.

Nevertheless, on the face of it, Ukraine's allies have not said anything against what the Ukrainians are currently doing on Russian territory.

And as far as the dynamics of things are concerned, I think to a certain extent that is still to be seen, but it certainly has changed things

already in certain ways where you do have the Ukrainians now with a lot of momentum. The Ukrainians apparently still moving forward.

And also, the Russians really seemingly caught off guard. I mean, we're now on day seven of this incursion into Russian territory. And the Ukrainians

still seem to be moving forward. And the Russians still seem at least totally incapable of stopping a lot of these advances.

[12:05:00]

We've been monitoring a lot of Russian social media, a lot of the things that Russia's Ministry of Defense have been putting out. And they keep

showing their jets bombing Ukrainian forces inside the Kursk Region.

But at the same time, you do have areas within Russia that are now having to be evacuated that seem to be moving closer and closer to the actual city

of Kursk. So it certainly still appears as though the Ukrainians are moving forward, guys.

ASHER: All right. Fred Pleitgen live for us there. Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: CNN Global Affairs analyst, Kimberly Dozier, joins us now live from Washington.

So not necessarily diplomatic speak there when we heard from Senator Lindsey Graham saying kick Putin's ass.

But I'm wondering, would the State Department, would the U.S. government gain any more insight in perhaps confidence in Ukraine's forces and their -

- the possibility of them continuing this war for a longer period of time by them making these types of incursions into Russia?

Right now, President Zelenskyy said Ukraine now controls 74 settlements in the Kursk Region. It was just 28, I believe yesterday.

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes. And there are different reports, whether they control 300 square kilometers or up to a thousand

square kilometers of territory.

When we tried to ask the White House spokesman, John Kirby, about this, he said that the Ukrainians are not using U.S. weaponry in a way that they

were not entitled to in this action and wouldn't be pressed more on what the Ukrainians are trying to do.

But it has been a massive shot in the arm in terms of morale for troops on the ground, for Ukrainians who've avoided or tried to avoid getting drafted

with new draft orders being issued by the government. They actually look like they're winning somewhere and psychologically that's really important.

Then you look at Western support for this conflict. And Lindsey Graham's words are music to President Zelenskyy's ears because they've been waning

support, especially in the Republican side for continuing to support a war that looks like throwing good money after bad.

So this is all great for now. It depends what do the Ukrainians do with this next and they haven't really told us what their intentions are.

ASHER: Yes. That was going to be my next point. This idea that, yes, obviously it is a win psychologically and it's certainly demoralizing for

Russia. But what exactly is the end goal here?

I mean, is it simply about diverting Russian resources elsewhere? Is it about the psychological gains do you think?

And also, what do they do with the territory? How long can they realistically hold the territory? Give us your take on that.

DOZIER: It takes a lot more troops to hold territory than to take territory and also to hold territory, any amount, in Kursk.

They would have to send the engineering units in to build the kind of fortifications you see along the line at the Eastern Front.

Layers of minefields, trenches for the soldiers to hide inside. Otherwise, if they stay in this sort of late armor formation deep inside Kursk, the

Russians can do their sort of traditional tactic, which is to encircle those inside their country, surround them and kill them all. That would

look terrible.

So, are the Ukrainian troops on the ground telling reporters they intend to stay as a massive psychological exercise? And they're just going to use

this like a raid to damage Putin's air of invincibility and pull back?

Or they actually going to start digging in to try to keep some territory to exchange perhaps for parts of Eastern Ukraine at a future date?

GOLODRYGA: We, of course, have been questioning the level of confidence within Russia's high command there in terms of how they've pursued this war

for two years now, over two years.

But we are seeing signs of Russia now sending in reinforcements to fight this off, this fight this incursion back.

And Vladimir Putin, obviously, having been embarrassed globally on the global stage by this surprise incursion has vowed a response.

What do you think we can anticipate in the days and weeks to come from the Russians?

DOZIER: Well, we're hearing from places like the Institute for the Study of War that Russian battalions are headed in that direction, but it's like

pieces of the battalions. So it's chop and change.

So they're sending some troops in that direction. How many? It's really not clear. Is it enough for the Ukrainians to accomplish what they hope to pull

Russian troops away from some of the areas where the Russians are making territorial advances in the East?

But all in all, they've had to pull out -- the Russians have had to evacuate 200,000 citizens. It has created headlines inside Russia that are

really unusual, Bianna. I know you can read it. And the first the original language that people are shocked that the Ukrainians were able to do this.

[12:10:10]

So it has created a psychological blow. Is that enough for the Ukrainian High Command? And will they just pull back? I think it's going to take us a

couple of weeks to figure that out.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. People are shocked. And perhaps the biggest vulnerability to Vladimir Putin is that people are saying to him, listen, we've supported

your war. Where are you to support us now? You told us that we wouldn't be affected. And here we are facing Ukrainian invasion that no one saw coming.

It's also reported that Ukraine has captured hundreds of Russian soldiers that they hope to use for a prisoner exchange down the road.

We'll continue to follow this story. Kimberly Dozier, thank you.

ASHER: Thank you, Kimberly.

All right. Well, the war rages on between Ukraine and Russia. One of President Vladimir Putin's critics spoke to CNN about his really difficult

time behind the bars of a Russian prison.

Vladimir Kara-Murza was part of that massive prison exchange between the U.S. and Russia earlier this month.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Listen, as he describes the moment when Russian guards pulled him out of his prison cell for a final time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR KARA-MURZA, RUSSIAN OPPOSITION POLITICIAN: I said that I had 10 minutes to get up, get dressed and get ready.

And I was absolutely certain at that moment that I was going to be let out and get executed.

For these past two weeks, frankly, it felt as if I'm watching some sort of a film. I mean, it's a really good film, but it still feels completely

surreal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: It's unbelievable what Vladimir Kara-Murza has survived. Two poisoning attempts and now what many believed was certain death in a

Russian prison.

The British-Russian National had been in prison for over two years, including 11 months in solitary confinement. It's an experience he

described as psychological torture for speaking out against Putin's war in Ukraine.

ASHER: All right. Now that's time to politics.

And what technical problems during --

GOLODRYGA: To say the least.

ASHER: -- that botched the beginning of Elon Musk's livestream interview with Donald Trump on X. This is what people who clicked on the interview

heard.

(MUSIC)

That actually went on for 42 minutes. Forty-two minutes of the interview with former President Donald Trump. It's delayed.

Musk blamed a cyber-attack, but admitted there was some, quote, unforced errors by his team.

GOLODRYGA: Although we don't have any information substantiating the claim --

ASHER: Right.

GOLODRYGA: -- of a cyber-attack. When the interview got up and running, finally, Musk, who is the world's richest man, lobbed softball questions at

Trump and steered the discussion toward campaign talking points.

That includes slamming Kamala Harris and coining a new phrase, more Trump than Trump. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Kamala wouldn't have this conversation. She can't because she's

not smart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

TRUMP: You know, she's not a smart person. She is a radical left San Francisco liberal. And now she's trying to protect. Now she's looking like

she's -- she wants to be more Trump than Trump, if that's possible. I don't think it's possible, but she wants to be more Trump than Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well --

TRUMP: She's terrible, but she's getting a free ride.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: Kamala Harris was quick to snap back posting this, Trump's entire campaign is in service of people like Elon Musk and himself, self-obsessed

rich guys who will sell out the middle class and who cannot run a livestream in the year 2024.

Let's bring in Alayna Treene for a closer look at that interview between Musk and Donald Trump.

So in terms of who this was really a win for, I was going to say that it was more or less a win for Elon Musk, except for the fact that you had

those really embarrassing technical glitches at the beginning.

But how much of a win was it for Donald Trump do you think?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: I mean, look, when I talk to Donald Trump's advisors, they are touting the viewership numbers. They are saying that

they set out what they accomplished to do, which was essentially -- well, they had a couple of things they wanted to do.

One was to take the spotlight off of Kamala Harris. We know that the attention she has been receiving, the enthusiasm she's received ever since

becoming the presumptive democratic nominee has really frustrated the former president.

But the larger goal for the Trump campaign, more specifically, was they not -- they weren't necessarily trying to target voters on Twitter.

What they were trying to do was target what they're calling low propensity voters, mainly the Elon Musk fans who perhaps aren't really voters that

have been politically active before, but they are fans of Musk and that, you know, they lean right and they may potentially turn out if they can be

convinced that Donald Trump is the person that should motivate them to the polls. And that's what Donald Trump's team argued that they think he did.

However, I will say that we really didn't learn much new from this interview. I had some Republicans texted me last night that this sounded

like a phone conversation that they've had with Donald Trump themselves. He meandered. He went off script. He didn't focus any of his attacks.

[12:15:07]

He did go after Kamala Harris, but he also spent a lot of time going after Joe Biden, who was no longer his opponent.

And so it was a little bit all over the place. And it was interesting because I will admit to both of you, Bianna and Zain, that I was really

looking forward to this interview because I know that when Donald Trump is in more of a comfortable setting, when he feels like he's being interviewed

by someone who's friendly or someone like Musk, who has endorsed him.

And, of course, Musk is not a journalist, so he wasn't throwing hard questions at the former president, that normally that is when Donald Trump

actually tends to be more candid and to make news, but we didn't hear that last night.

Instead, it was really two hours of him airing his grievances, saying the same things I hear repeatedly at Donald Trump's rallies and the same

attacks as well. So not a lot of new information.

I can also tell you that despite what the campaign is saying about him setting out doing -- setting out to do what he wanted -- they wanted him to

do, that a lot of people on the outside, and a lot of -- a lot of Donald Trump's allies who genuinely want him to win the election in November, this

is the exact opposite of what they want him to do.

They do not want him doing these unscripted, you know, off topic, long meandering interviews. Instead, they want him to focus on key areas of

policy, particularly the areas where they know that Donald Trump polls better than Joe Biden, especially on immigration, on crime, on inflation,

and they want him to tie that messaging to Kamala Harris and to her campaign.

But Donald Trump, for his part, seems to think that these interviews do work, and that's why he's continuing to do them.

And so it's interesting to see, you know, where the campaign moves forward, if they're going to continue doing more things like this, there's no

question that a huge goal of theirs is to try and find and create some of these first-time voters that they think, you know, who have not been

politically active in the past, who could potentially be motivated to vote for Donald Trump.

But whether or not that actually worked with an interview like this, it still, you know, remains to be seen.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Alayna, it was interesting yesterday when we were on air with you, I think just a couple of minutes prior, we got the first tweet or

post on X. I keep calling it Twitter. It's not Twitter anymore.

But from Donald Trump, and obviously, he's got his Truth Social platform now. He'd been banned from X years ago. It was Elon Musk, once he bought

it, that brought him back onto the platform, but he hasn't been active until yesterday, where he was quite active.

Do we know from his campaign at all whether he plans to continue being active on X?

TREENE: It's definitely a strategy. I think he will be. It's unclear exactly how active.

I think if you look at his posts from yesterday on X, compared to what he posts traditionally on Truth Social, it was way online with the campaign's

messaging. I mean, it didn't really sound like Donald Trump. Trump likes to use social media.

And the way he used formally Twitter now, X, when he was president, was kind of a stream of consciousness to sharing what he felt reacting to news,

you know, often sharing conspiracy theories, using it to criticize people.

And I know from my conversations with Trump's team, both then, but now as well, that he really does feel like these platforms are his way of

communicating directly with his base and with his viewers.

And there's been some hesitancy on the part of the Trump campaign for putting him back on X because what he's sharing on Truth Social, normally,

doesn't get as much attention because there are far fewer people on Truth Social as well.

Truth Social is really his base. It's the most conservative parts of the country and people who are using Truth Social in a regular manner. Twitter

is a far more diverse type of platform with people of all different kinds of views on it.

And that's part of why I think that he is back on it now. They recognize that he needs to amplify his messaging as much as possible before November.

I know that many of Donald Trump's allies on the outside who are not on the campaign have been pushing him to rejoin X for some time now, especially

since he was, you know, Musk had lifted the ban on him months ago. You know, he just chose to come back yesterday and ahead of this interview, but

also because it's so close to the election.

But I'll just say to answer your question more succinctly, I do think he will keep posting. I just -- I'm not entirely sure yet in which manner. If

he'll be the unscripted Donald Trump that we all know or if it'll be more of his way of trying to really stay on message when it comes to that

platform versus his own on Truth Social.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. I'm just asking for personal reasons also just to know if I should turn off the alerts.

ASHER: You missed them a lot, don't you honey? You missed -- you missed them so much.

GOLODRYGA: It looked like (INAUDIBLE) when they start coming back.

Alayna Treene, keep us posted on all fronts.

TREENE: We'll do.

ASHER: Thank you, Alayna.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Coming up for us, neighbors left in ashes near one of the oldest cities in the world. We'll bring you the latest on the wildfires

from Athens.

ASHER: And depicted as a hero. North Korea's Kim Jong Un visits his communities devastated by floods, all the while refusing any aide from his

allies.

What could really be going on behind closed doors? We'll have that story for you just ahead.

[12:20:00]

GOLODRYGA: And back in June, they were all smiles and ready to go. But two months after they were supposed to return, is it any clear when the two

Starliner astronauts will get back. We'll explain a little later this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: This is what's left of a community near the city of Athens, after wildfire ravaged the area destroying cars, homes, and businesses.

It has killed at least one person. Firefighters say they are making progress containing the fast-moving blaze.

ASHER: But they are still dealing with smaller outbreaks and neighborhoods near the Greek capital. This suburb was engulfed in smoke as local people

raced to put out the fire with hoses and buckets of water.

The fire started Sunday and spread really rapidly. More than 700 firefighters have been fighting the flames with at least six European

countries answering Greece's call for help as well.

CNN's Eleni Giokos is in Penteli near Athens and she joins us now with the latest.

What is the situation there now?

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's the aftermath, Bianna. Right now what we're seeing is just people trying to figure out the damage to their

homes, to their businesses.

And we've got scenes like this. Devastating scenes like this where you have what would be a very green area now turning into coal and blackened dust.

It's really difficult to breathe here. You've got suit all over the place. No matter what we touch, it's like touching charcoal.

I was saying earlier, it feels like I'm in a fireplace. That is how difficult it is right now for residents.

This is one of the hotspot areas. It is said and, of course, a lot of residents are telling us this is a stream of what would be a stream in the

winter months. The fire spread very quickly from pond parts of Athens to the other and went down this.

I mean, look, some of the people were telling us that they were watching the flames on a mountain and then suddenly they blinked and then the fire

basically had encroached their home.

We met some business owners that have lost everything. We've seen people losing their homes. One family, in particular, was very touching just to

hear some of what they had to say.

Their home is completely destroyed. The government is putting them up for two nights. And then after that, they don't know where they'll be going.

What is interesting is a lot of people just feel so traumatized and so devastated that they didn't want to appear on camera. They just don't want

to talk to media.

And I think it really goes to speak to the story that we keep seeing repeated, time and time again in Greece, that every single year these

devastating fires are really wreaking havoc on people's livelihoods.

[12:25:07]

One hundred thousand acres of land has been burned. And what's really scary about the scenario this year, it's that it's hit the suburbs in Athens.

To give you an idea of how close we are to the city center, we're 11 miles away. And firefighters have been working throughout the night.

The good news is that it's been contained for now. And there are no live active fires at the moment.

GOLODRYGA: It's understandable. If people lose so much, they -- the last thing they want to do is talk to anybody especially the media in such

personal tragedy. We know aid has been coming in from multiple European countries now.

Eleni Giokos, also, take care of yourself, please. Thank you.

ASHER: Thank you, Eleni.

All right. As North Korea reels from devastating floods, striking images on state television depict Kim Jong Un as the sympathetic leader.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Kim met with families affected by flooding living in temporary shelters. Some of them can be seen weeping as the authoritarian

ruler crouches beside them.

Kim showing concern and offering help while he refuses any foreign aid, we should note, even from his closest allies.

CNN's Will Ripley reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On his emerald green bulletproof train, loaded with supplies from the capital

Pyongyang, North Korean leader, Kim Jong Un, is portrayed as a hero on state TV, traveling to areas devastated by flooding.

Record rains left entire towns and villages underwater, just miles from the Chinese border in the northwest of the country.

State media reports thousands of evacuations but no deaths, a claim impossible to verify with no foreign aid organizations allowed in.

Kim delivering a defiant speech from the rail car carrying his armored limousine declaring with confidence North Korea is fully self-reliant,

rejecting all offers of international aid even from allies, China and Russia, at least for now.

Some fear Kim's deepening military partnership with fellow strong man, Vladimir Putin, could be giving his economy and confidence a boost. Russia

effectively vetoed United Nations sanctions monitoring earlier this year, opening the door for illicit trade, the U.S. says, perhaps emboldening Kim

to shut the door on international aid and diplomacy.

LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: We are prepared to have an open dialogue with the North Koreans without

preconditions. We want to pursue diplomacy.

RIPLEY (voice-over): U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., Linda Thomas-Greenfield, visited the Korean Demilitarized Zone this spring, telling out front at the

time, any top level meeting, like former President Trump's summits with Kim, would require lots of legwork.

THOMAS-GREENFIELD: Before any meeting like that could happen, we have to have engagements at other levels.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Trump signaling, he'd be willing to engage directly with Kim if reelected.

TRUMP: I got along very well, North Korea, Kim Jong Un. I got along with him. He'd like to see me back too. I think he misses me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That right there.

KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes. Uh-huh.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Vice President Kamala Harris taking a decidedly unfriendly stance during her visit to the DMZ in 2022.

HARRIS: In the North, we see a brutal dictatorship, rampant human rights violations, and an unlawful weapons program that threatens peace and

stability.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Kim blasted South Korean media for speculating about massive flooding casualties calling it a smear campaign from a dirty

rubbish country.

North Korea even tried sending another round of trash balloons following South Korea's offer of humanitarian aid.

South Korean media reports shifting winds blew all but 10 of them back.

South Korea's unification ministry accuses Kim of trying to shift focus away from the devastating flood damage visible even in these carefully

edited state TV images.

This is what North Korea wants the world to see. Kim visiting flood survivors living in tents under the sweltering summer heat. As many wonder

what state media is not showing, how many people may be suffering for the sake of self-reliance.

Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: All right. The state of Pennsylvania is a key battleground state and voters are taking that responsibility really seriously.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL PESCE, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I'm not excited about voting for Kamala Harris, but it's better than the alternative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: After the break, we'll take the pulse of those living there and what it could mean for the outcome of the presidential race.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:29]

ASHER: All right. Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher.

GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.

U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris, has been campaigning in battleground states, reintroducing herself to voters since becoming the democratic

nominee for president.

ASHER: Yes. CNN's John King went to Pennsylvania for his series, All Over the Map, and spoke with voters in the suburbs of Philadelphia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bucks County, Pennsylvania, this covered bridge, a local treasure.

Michael Pesce often stops along the trail here to fish and to think. Not a great time to be a Reagan Republican. Pesce supported Nikki Haley, but

won't vote for Donald Trump ever. And he sees Kamala Harris as more liberal than he would like.

PESCE: I have doubts about her. She's going to be tied to the Biden record regardless of what she says or what she does.

KING: Does it impact your calculation for what you do?

PESCE: No. It doesn't change anything at all. I'm still not going to vote for Trump, regardless. So, I'm not excited about voting for Kamala Harris,

but it's better than the alternative.

KING (voice-over): Every vote counts, though, enthusiastic or not. Big margins in the suburbs that surround Philadelphia are critical for

Democrats. Bucks is more blue collar, and of late, the most competitive of the collar counties.

KING: If I were here the day after the debate and I asked you, do you think Biden could win Pennsylvania? You would have said --

PESCE: No way. There would have been no way.

KING: Do you think Harris could win Pennsylvania?

PESCE: I think she can. I think she can. I think the energy she's brought to the campaign, the fact that she's a woman and women's rights are going

to be a big deal here in Pennsylvania. And I think that's kind of where Pennsylvania will go.

KING (voice-over): Berks County is more rural and more Trumpy. Just outside the suburban collar, but margins matter everywhere in the battlegrounds.

[12:35:07]

Joan London is an attorney for local governments.

JOAN LONDON, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: Bloom Farm zoning permit status. We had a meeting this morning, a very productive meeting.

KING (voice-over): London cast a primary vote for Haley, then switched her registration to independent. She worries about Trump's coarse tone and what

she sees as angry populism. A new worry since our last visit in May, Trump running mate, J.D. Vance.

No cats, but married and childless. Now, even more proud she left the GOP.

LONDON: I've led a very full life that way. And to say I don't have a stake in the future of the country, I had some difficulty with that. And all I

could think of Senator Vance, are you going to tell Ann Coulter or Condoleezza Rice or Elizabeth Dole that they're miserable cat ladies? I

don't -- I don't think so.

KING (voice-over): London plans to write in a conservative, but she leaves the Harris window open just a crack.

LONDON: If Donald Trump or J.D. Vance really says something so outrageously offensive, that could drive me to vote for Vice President Harris, but it's

highly unlikely. She just doesn't -- she doesn't represent my values, my beliefs about policy.

KING (voice-over): Media is in Delaware County. Cynthia Sabatini knows a lot about the change here.

CYNTHIA SABATINI, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: My street was rock-ribbed Republican. Now, you have to shake a stick to find a Republican.

KING (voice-over): Sabatini is also Never-Trump.

SABATINI: I watch his campaign rallies. It's all about him. It's not about the country.

KING (voice-over): This is now the third campaign in which these Never- Trump voters hold significant sway.

In 2016, Sabatini wrote in a Republican senator, Trump narrowly won Pennsylvania.

In 2020, she voted for Biden.

KING: Was that hard?

SABATINI: No, because I don't want to see Trump elected after the chaos of the prior four years.

KING (voice-over): Sabatini says she's read things that worry her about Harris, about immigration policy, and about being tough on her staff.

Probably another write in this November. But the 2016 results, still stings.

SABATINI: I'm trying to keep an open mind about Harris. If the rap on her, as I read, is correct.

KING (voice-over): Bala Cynwyd is in Montgomery County.

CAROL CARTY, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: It was very Republican --

KING: And it's not anymore.

CARTY: -- when I was growing up and it's Democrat now.

KING (voice-over): Carol Carty is an attorney, a registered Republican. She's angry that Trump constantly attacks courts and judges and election

results.

CARTY: I am now turning on '80s songs to go back to the '80s.

In my lifetime, the Republican Party has changed with Donald Trump.

KING (voice-over): Clinton 2016, Biden 2020. A Never-Trumper, she thought. But inflation and immigration soured her on Biden. And then she watched the

June debate.

CARTY: When Biden was on the ticket, I was going to vote for Trump. But now, it's a harder call. Just because I am not a fan of Donald Trump.

KING (voice-over): Nor now of Senator Vance.

CARTY: I'm not a cat lady, I was a childless dog lady. Because I didn't -- I didn't meet the right person until I was over 40 years old. So I could

very well be one of those childless women. And I found the comment insensitive and narrow-minded.

KING (voice-over): This is near Carty's summer home on Maryland's eastern shore. She says the conversations back home, among her Philly suburban mom

friends, are crystal clear.

CARTY: Definitely, I have more friends saying that they're leaning towards Harris.

KING (voice-over): But she still has reservations and hopes a Harris- Trump debate helps.

CARTY: Tell me what you did exactly at your last job. And what are your goals for this job, if you get the job. And that's what I want to hear from

Kamala Harris.

KING (voice-over): Scoring the campaign just like a job interview, in the suburbs that usually decide who gets hired.

John King, CNN, Bala Cynwyd, Pennsylvania.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: All right. Time now for The Exchange. And the next few weeks in a campaign that can only be described as unprecedented. There she is smiling.

Our political analyst, Jackie Kucinich, is also the Washington bureau chief for "The Boston Globe."

Jackie, of course, we have to start with that interview yesterday between Trump and Elon Musk.

Obviously, it was certainly rambling at times, of course. He, you know, resorted a little bit to the sort of 2016 playbook in terms of attacking

Kamala Harris. But he did also talk a little bit about substance as well, just including his thoughts on immigration, the economy, of course, the

recent assassination attempt, the future of energy production and also this idea of disbanding the Department of Education.

What is going to be the winning strategy for him going forward? Just in terms of whether or not the key for Donald Trump to win the selection is

going to be about policy versus saying that Kamala Harris isn't black enough for him.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, and he -- and he has said that as well.

So I think if you listen to his advisor, Fox News, and on places that, you know, Trump frequents is that they really want him to be talking about

policy. They want him to be contrasting himself with Vice President Harris.

[12:40:07]

Now, he hasn't been very good at sticking to that. I mean, I'm old enough to remember during the convention, when they were talking about a different

tone going forward.

Now, I think we've all become skeptical of whenever that's happened. I've certainly lost count. But it seemed that the convention for a moment that

it might stick and we might have a more substantive campaign, that is now a distant memory.

So whether he can get that discipline back, we'll have to see. I think you heard that a lot during John King's interviews. There's a lot of people out

there that are waiting to watch this debate on the 10th to make up their minds.

And, you know, whether he will resort to personal attacks or some of these odd repurposed attacks that, you know, he's talking about Biden, but then

he's saying that Harris can't answer questions either, it seems like he's still trying to figure out who he's running against and the kind of

campaign that he wants to run.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Ever since Joe Biden left the campaign and now Kamala Harris is on top of the ticket, it has seemed to have thrown Donald Trump

in particular off kilter. Nothing seems to stick in terms of his talking points and some of the assaulting language that he's used in the past that

has really stuck with his opponents. None of that is jelling at this point.

But of all people, let's leave it to Harry Enten, to sort of bring things down to reality and remind us of what Donald Trump has accomplished in the

past. And here's what he noted today.

He said, given -- despite the fact that we've seen some polling, both national and within those crucial battleground states, showing Kamala

Harris even ahead at this point. He said that Trump will win if the difference between the polls at this point and the results match what we

saw either in 2016 or 2020.

He also notes that Trump is actually more popular now than he was in 2016 or 2020.

And despite the voter enthusiasm that we now see, particularly among the democratic base, surrounding Kamala Harris, that that doesn't necessarily

result into more voter turnout or voters saying that they will actually come out to vote in November. How do you read all of that?

KUCINICH: I think we have to wait and see because it is -- I mean, as John King again said in that piece, the margins matter. And whether -- and what

happens in this sprint of a race. I mean, this is -- this campaign is certainly, you know, a lot shorter than a lot of us are used to watching in

the modern era.

So what they say and what they are, how they convince voters as to like what their vision is for the country is really going to matter. And we're

all going to be listening so closely because there are so many unanswered questions and nothing is -- nothing's firm in the polls right now.

I mean, we saw them swing wildly after Biden exited the race and that is in part due to democratic enthusiasm, of which there wasn't a lot when Biden

was at the top of the ticket.

And so, you know, whether even that can hold is still an open question and we've got the convention coming up just next week. I'm sure there will be,

you know, a push coming out of that.

But, you know, that -- then comes the hard part, then comes those debates, then comes those potential interviews that Harris might have with

reporters. Those have been complicated, I will say, for her in the past and have led to some missteps.

So while it's short, we do have. There's a lot of campaign left and a lot of minds.

It's a sliver of the electorate but an important sliver of the electorate that are yet to, you know, be set.

ASHER: Yes. I mean, it's interesting. I'm so glad you brought up the debate because that is going to be. I mean, we saw that the last debate between

Biden and Trump, that completely changed the trajectory of this race. I mean, who knew?

I think obviously come the September debate between Harris and Trump, that is going to be a major inflection point, you know, just in terms of her

ability to really stand up to him and focus on policy instead of succumbing to his attacks.

Which candidate is going to be better at bringing in new voters into the fold? I mean, obviously Kamala Harris appeals to people of color.

But in terms of both candidates bringing in new first-time voters, that is going to be key. Who can do it better, do you think Jackie?

KUCINICH: I think that I would love -- I mean, I have a magic eight ball right now on my desk that I can maybe answer that question for you.

But in all -- in all seriousness, we know that the Trump campaign was targeting younger voters, was targeting black voters before everything

shifted a few weeks ago.

And we know that the Harris campaign is obviously, you know, targeting that same voting block and making sure that, you know, they understand what

she's representing and, you know, making sure that some of the -- some of the voters who came up for Biden still come out from the Midwest and from

places in Pennsylvania.

[12:45:05]

But there is -- there are concerted efforts for all of these -- for all of these constituencies. No one is leaving anything to chance. And, you know,

we would expect that to continue and that money continues to be spent on black voters, young voters, Latino voters.

ASHER: I mean, you see those fundraising calls, right? Black women for Kamala, white women for Kamala, black men.

GOLODRYGA: Black queers.

ASHER: Black queer men for Kamala every single constituent.

KUCINICH: Right.

GOLODRYGA: Don't forget the white dudes. We interviewed one of the organizers.

ASHER: Oh, yes, the white dudes.

(CROSSTALK)

ASHER: The list goes on. And I think she's bringing this --

KUCINICH: Never (INAUDIBLE) you guys.

ASHER: A black man. A black men one just a couple of days ago.

Jackie Kucinich live for us there. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

GOLODRYGA: Good luck with that magic eight ball too.

ASHER: I know.

KUCINICH: Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: And still ahead for us. When are the Starliner astronauts coming home? They've already been on the International Space Station a lot longer

than they expected. We'll have an update, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: Mars may have enough underground water to fill the oceans. That's what scientists are saying, using information from NASA.

The new study out this week says that future astronauts exploring Mars would encounter a host of challenges if they actually try to access the

water.

GOLODRYGA: That's because it's located up to 20 kilometers or 12 miles beneath the surface. Still, researchers say the discovery suggests a new

place to search for possible life on the red planet.

ASHER: All right. Sixty-nine days since blastoff. It was supposed to be an eight-day mission for NASA astronauts, Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams.

They flew a Boeing Starliner spacecraft to the International Space Station in early June. The first flight of its kind with people on board.

GOLODRYGA: Look at them dancing down there. But there were problems with the thrusters and propulsion system. And if the Starliner isn't deemed safe

to bring them back to earth, well, they'll need a different way to get home.

CNN space and defense correspondent, Kristin Fisher joins us now from Washington D.C.

And, Kristin, leave it to my co-anchor here to say, listen, these people are professional. They're used to spending months in space. Things like

this happen.

ASHER: From their first go around, right?

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

ASHER: From their first rodeo, right?

GOLODRYGA: But let's be honest, there is a difference between an eight-day mission and one that could be months now. Explain to us what exactly is

happening.

[12:50:00]

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. A big difference between eight days and eight months, no matter who you are or how well

prepared mentally or physically or emotionally you are.

So, ladies, there's two options on the table right now. One is that NASA and Boeing decide that this Starliner spacecraft is safe and safe enough to

fly Butch and Suni, these two veteran NASA astronauts, Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, that it's safe to fly and return them back to Earth.

If that happens, they could return to Earth within a matter of weeks, if not sooner. That's the preference for NASA and Boeing, for sure.

If that does not happen, option number two, and this is the contingency plan that's been floating around in the background for some time, but

really coming into focus over the last few days and weeks, is that these two astronauts have to go back on a different spacecraft, on SpaceX's Crew

Dragon.

And if that is the case, that is when Butch and Suni would have to wait on board the International Space Station until February 2025, at the earliest,

to return to Earth on a different spacecraft. So those are the two options.

Right now, NASA and Boeing are weighing what they're going to do.

Last week, NASA said they were going to have a big meeting this week to try to make a decision. That has now been delayed until next week at the

earliest. And NASA just announced yesterday that they're going to update the media and kind of give us another update as to where we're at tomorrow.

So, hopefully, we'll get some more information then.

But as of now, there is widespread dissent within NASA about whether or not this spacecraft, Starliner, is safe to fly these two NASA astronauts home.

So, you know, they're weighing their options and trying to see what is going to be the best vehicle to get them back. So, very unclear what's

going to happen.

ASHER: But you see, you've got to put a positive spin on it. So I would -- I would -- I look at the fact that look at that amazing view that they have

through the window of planet Earth.

That would certainly --

GOLODRYGA: That view would even get old for me at some point --

ASHER: Oh, keep me going.

GOLODRYGA: -- after weeks and months.

ASHER: Oh, my God.

GOLODRYGA: But I love how it comes full circle back to Elon Musk, perhaps being the solution, as we talked about him earlier in the show.

Kristin Fisher, we are out of time. But, Butch and Suni, you should know, rest assured, we have not forgotten about you. We'll continue to follow and

track what's going on there in space.

CNN's Kristin Fisher. Thank you so much.

ASHER: Thank you, Kristin.

FISHER: Thanks.

GOLODRYGA: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:55:10]

GOLODRYGA: Do you miss the 2000s?

ASHER: Not really.

GOLODRYGA: Well, the sounds of Y2K, I guess for us, sadly, because we don't miss it, are back. The American boy band, NSYNC, is surging, again in

popularity. Thanks to the hit film "Deadpool and Wolverine."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: I had totally forgotten about that puppet music video.

GOLODRYGA: Do you know that that's Justin Timberlake on the left there?

The band's song "Bye Bye Bye" is featured in the summer superhero blockbuster now playing in theaters across the world.

ASHER: NSYNC's tune was first released back in the year 2000 and is now being introduced to a brand-new generation of fans.

At last check, "Bye Bye Bye" is number eight on the Billboard's global chart.

So funny, during the commercial break, Bianna and I were actually dancing to our favorite late '90s --

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Hip-hop was great in the early 2000s.

ASHER: I'm so glad it was not caught on camera.

GOLODRYGA: You're learning so much about us this hour.

That does it for us. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: I'm Zain Asher.

"AMANPOUR" is up next. You're watching CNN.

[13:00:00]

END