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One World with Zain Asher
Israel and Hezbollah Exchange Fire As Fears Escalate; Senior U.N. Official: No Aid Deliveries In Gaza Today; Ukraine: Energy Facilities Damaged Following Russian Attack; Kremlin Denies Pavel Durov Met With Putin In Azerbaijan; Harris Campaign Does Not Want Mics Muted During The Debate; NASA: SpaceX Capsule To Bring Home Starliner Astronauts; Aired 12:00-1:00p ET
Aired August 26, 2024 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:30]
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST: What happened today is not the end. Strong words from Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu as tensions in the region rise over the
weekend.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: ONE WORLD starts right now.
Fears of escalation in the Middle East persist, even as Israel and Hezbollah signal that the worst is over after a weekend of violence. We'll
take you live to Beirut and Tel Aviv.
ASHER: Plus, Donald Trump is campaigning in battleground states today. We take a closer look on the former president's busy schedule.
GOLODRYGA: And a big win for a little league. Sheer excitement for this Florida team as they win the Little League World Series. We'll tell you and
show you how they made history.
Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. You are watching ONE WORLD.
As Gaza's ceasefire talks sputter on, Israel and Hezbollah are holding back for now from moves that could trigger a wider war, despite a ferocious
round of cross-border attacks.
Israel launched what it called preemptive strikes against Hezbollah in Lebanon over the weekend. The IDF says it struck and destroyed thousands of
Hezbollah rocket launcher barrels in dozens of different locations.
Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu says this is not the end of the fighting.
GOLODRYGA: On its side, Hezbollah fired a swarm of rockets and drones towards Israel and retaliation for the killing of a top military commander
last month.
Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah also not ruling out further strikes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASSAN NASRALLAH, HEZBOLLAH LEADER (through translator): The result is satisfactory and achieves the intended goal.
And if the result is not enough from our point of view, then we retain the right to respond another time.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The Israeli army destroyed thousands of short-range rockets, all of which were
intended to harm our civilians and forces in the Galilee.
Additionally, the Israeli army intercepted all of the drones that Hezbollah launched at a strategic target in Central Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: CNN's reporters are on the story. Let's go to Ben Wedeman who was in Beirut, Lebanon,
And, Ben, it was interesting to hear from Hassan Nasrallah yesterday, signaling to those in Lebanon that it is safe to return to their homes and,
quote, take a deep breath, also noting that at least for now, the tensions have been lowered.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That is the general impression people took away from this speech, Bianna.
He was -- he's appeared sort of his demeanor, his body language, would indicate that he was, at least he wanted to appear satisfied with the
results of the strike. He claimed that, in addition to striking a string of Israeli military bases along the border, that Hezbollah's drones or rockets
were able to reach the headquarters of Mossad Unit 8200, which is Israel's Signals Intelligence Unit, as well as the headquarters of Israel's Missile
Defense Unit as well.
Of course, the Israelis say nothing was damaged. And we've seen nothing that would contradict that claim at that point, but certainly it was
important for him after making two speeches immediately after the death of Fuad Shukr, that senior Hezbollah military commander killed on the 30th of
July here in Beirut.
And a week after that, he repeated that a response was coming. Now, it took him four weeks to do it. He said the reason why it was delayed or was
because they were giving the Gaza ceasefire talks a chance, and also because of the high state of alert in Israel, and the increased military
presence in the Middle East.
Now, he stressed that Hezbollah was not targeting civilians or civilian infrastructure, because he said the fear was that if that was done, Israel
would strike back at similar targets within Lebanon.
So it does appear that tensions have significantly reduced, and nonetheless, what we're seeing is a continuation of the kind of back and
forth fire that has been going on basically since October.
Hezbollah, notably, has only reported one strike on an Israeli surveillance post, but we're seeing a series of Israeli strikes across South Lebanon.
One of them, it appears, was an attempted assassination on what is being described in the local media as a Hamas leader. But it's said that he
escaped, although some media are reporting he was badly injured.
[12:05:26]
But nonetheless, the situation continues essentially as it was before, fighting on the border. There are still 100,000 Lebanese civilians who have
had to flee their homes in the south. Many of those homes have been destroyed. A lot of the agriculture in that area has simply been burnt as
the result of Israeli shelling.
On the other side of the border, destruction as well, more than 60,000 Israelis have had to flee their homes.
Hezbollah has made it clear from the beginning that if there is a ceasefire in Gaza, it will cease its fire at Israel.
And we saw that in fact they made good on that promise back in November of last year, when there was an eight-day truce in Gaza. During that period,
Hezbollah did not fire a shot.
Bianna?
GOLODRYGA: All right. Ben Wedeman, thank you.
ASHER: All right. Let's bring in Nic Robertson joining us from Tel Aviv, Israel.
As Ben just saying that what happens in Lebanon in terms of the aggression between Israel and Hezbollah is very much dependent on what happens in
Gaza.
Nic, I do want to talk to you about some of the criticism that Prime Minister Netanyahu is facing within Israel, particularly from the right-
wing factions of his coalition, essentially saying that Israel should be much more aggressive towards Hezbollah. And they are criticizing
essentially the limited nature of the strikes we saw over the weekend.
Benjamin Netanyahu, just walk us through what he said, because he's saying essentially that this is not the end of the story, just yet.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. He's saying that they defeated all the threats that Hezbollah was trying to launch at them
over the weekend, but this is not the end. What we saw yesterday is not the end of the story, if you will. So it's leaving the door open for
potentially more strikes.
It was significant that Israel didn't strike deep into Lebanon over the weekend. Their targets were in the south. That's where they saw the threat
that they were preempting over the weekend.
But that, if you will, didn't sort of cross over a red line or threshold for Hezbollah, triggering them, because it's understood that they keep some
of their more long-range, sophisticated weapons further away from the border of Israel, further north inside Lebanon.
So there's a sense that while the Prime Minister is leaving the door open for other strikes, he's also not escalating the situation.
I think the perception here is, and we're standing within line of sight of one of the targets, the intelligence headquarters that Hassan Nasrallah
claimed that had been successfully targeted over the weekend by Hezbollah, there were no sound of impact -- no sign of impacts from there, no sign of
smoke, no sign of any damage, nothing showed up on social media. The IDF completely denied that any military site, either in the center of Israel or
in the north, was hit.
So in a way for Israel at the moment, Hezbollah gave it a shot. Israel preempted it. So it feels a little bit like going back to April where Iran
launched a huge number of missiles at Israel, and with their allies, Israel was able to knock most of them out of their skies.
On this occasion, it was intelligence and Israel's own strikes that allowed it to defend itself they say successfully. So in a way, Hezbollah, despite
what their leadership is saying and telling their people, is on the back foot on this one.
But, absolutely, the small strikes across the border continue. And undoubtedly, if Israel perceives another mass missile -- mass number of
missiles being ready for launching, you can be sure that they will be -- they will be trying to intercept that again before it happens.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And, objectively, just very impressive on the Israeli side in terms of intelligence. And the fact that this launch against Israel was
set to go off by Hezbollah at 5 A.M. local time. And once Israel intercepted that, the timers on these launchers were actually set on these
launch pads. Israel then sent over 100 planes in a matter of just 30 minutes before those missiles were set to be launched into Israel.
Nic, I do want to ask you about news we are just getting about the U.N. operations in Gaza now coming to a halt from U.N. officials now saying
they're forced to halt. Do we know any more information as to why?
ROBERTSON: Yes. We've got the U.N. report, they say that this is an unprecedented situation that the situation in Gaza today is too dangerous
for them to deliver aid. They're concerned for their 90 international staff. There are 140 local staff and 400 dependents.
[12:10:11]
We here in Tel Aviv have been able to hear several loud detonations through the day. It seems that these are most likely coming from Gaza.
The -- we know that the IDF has told people to move around our el-Balah (ph). We know that there have been strikes in that area.
It's not clear, you know, precisely why the U.N. feels that this day is worse than previous days. But certainly, the number of strikes that we've
been able to hear from here, which means they were very, very big ones, is above -- significantly above the average that we've heard recently. So that
maybe this is the root of the U.N.'s decision to stop trying to deliver aid.
But necessarily for all those citizens in Gaza who absolutely depend on the U.N. on a day by day basis to move that humanitarian aid around and to get
it to them. And this just makes their situation so much more desperate.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. So much more desperate and challenging there.
Nic Robertson, thank you so much.
ASHER: Thank you, Nic.
GOLODRYGA: Well, Ukraine is struggling with power outages throughout the country after Russia unleashed a massive drone and missile attack overnight
targeting energy infrastructure.
ASHER: Yes. At least five people were killed in the bombardment that impacted 15 regions. It comes nearly three weeks after Kyiv's surprise
cross-border incursion.
And as Ukrainian troops are pushing deeper into Russia's Kursk Region, but also as Moscow's army is closing in on the key eastern Ukrainian city of
Pokrovsk.
CNN's Salma Abdelaziz has more.
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bianna and Zain, ever since Ukrainian forces pushed into Russian territory with that surprise assault on Kursk,
Ukrainians have been bracing for Russian retaliation. And that seems to be exactly what happened in the early hours of Monday morning with a massive
barrage, 100 drones, and 100 missiles fired from Russia all across Ukraine.
President Zelenskyy calling it one of the worst air assaults the country has seen. The Ukrainian Air Force acted quickly, of course, to intercept
this attack. But there were consequences. Several people killed. Energy infrastructure was the main target. So there were power outages across the
country as well. And families were sent fleeing into bomb shelters.
Take a listen to this scene play out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABDELAZIZ: You're hearing there the sound of Ukrainians singing in a metro station essentially turned into a bomb shelter. And that's what Ukrainian
officials say is the goal, the target of these attacks to make normal life difficult, impossible, even far from that battlefield.
Speaking of that battlefield, of course, it remains very much active. And I do want to bring you an update from there regarding another shocking attack
on the city of Kramatorsk. This is a location near that battlefield, near those frontlines that is often used by journalists as a base. And that's
exactly what was happening.
A Reuters' crew was staying in Hotel Sapphire in Kramatorsk when it was struck by a Russian attack. Several members of this Reuters crew were hurt.
And one person, their security adviser, a British national was killed.
Reuters has issued a statement. And I do want to read that out. It says, we send our deepest condolences and thoughts to Ryan's family. And loved ones.
Ryan has helped so many of our journalists cover events around the world. We will miss him terribly.
Reuters is appealing for more information on what happened to Ryan Evans. This 38-year-old British national again. But President Zelenskyy is blaming
Russia, saying that Russia intended to carry out this attack to make it ever more difficult to cover that story, to make it ever more dangerous for
reporters to reach those frontlines.
Zain and Bianna.
ASHER: Salma Abdelaziz live for us there.
All right. The kremlin is denying that President Vladimir Putin met with the Russian-born founder and CEO of Telegram in Azerbaijan last week.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Pavel Durov was detained at an airport outside of Paris on Saturday night. The arrest warrant alleges that his messaging app failed to
regulate content and has been used for money laundering and other criminal activities.
French President Emmanuel Macron says the billionaire entrepreneur's detention was in no way a political decision.
Now, Telegram has more than 900 million users and is popular in both Russia and Ukraine.
ASHER: CNN's Clare Duffy joins us live now.
So, Clare, we know that Telegram has somewhat looser content moderation policies. Obviously, the executives at the company are less willing, in
general, to cooperate with law enforcement.
[12:15:03]
But what does this actually mean about how liable social media executives are about the content that ends up on their platforms?
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, it is a big question. I mean, for social media platforms broadly right now, how do you balance freedom of
speech with safety for the users on this -- on all platforms?
And on Telegram, in particular, this is an encrypted messaging app, which means that the service itself, the company doesn't have a lot of oversight
or control over how users are using the platform.
Law enforcement also doesn't have a lot of oversight in terms of the conversations that are happening on this platform. And that has made
Telegram a really important communication tool in places like Russia and Iran where free speech is curtailed.
It's become a really important tool in Ukraine for citizens to warn each other about air raids. But it also that privacy means that this platform is
used by drug traffickers and money launderers, terrorist groups to communicate. And the platform has really gained growing scrutiny as it's
grown. And now, as you said, has more than 900 million users.
And so it will be interesting as we start to hear more from these French prosecutors about what exactly their specific concerns are.
French President Emmanuel Macron saying this is part of an ongoing judicial investigation. But it will be interesting to hear what they are concerned
about, what these illicit uses that they're worried about are. And potentially, what more they're hoping to get to learn from this company.
ASHER: So should other social media CEOs, when you think about the CEO of Rumble, for example, I know that he was commenting, oh, should other tech
CEOs, social media CEOs be worried?
DUFFY: It is an interesting question. I mean, the E.U. has been cracking down broadly on social media platforms, looking for them to do more, to
remove harmful content from their platforms, but to see the CEO of a company be arrested over the use of their platform is really unprecedented.
Telegram itself says that the company is -- abides by E.U. law and in particular abides by the Digital Services Act, which are these new
requirements for social media platforms to do even more to remove harmful content from their platforms.
The E.U. has set up special agencies to investigate election misinformation. So it's clearly concerned about this. But to see the CEO
arrested is a huge deal.
And I think one of the things that's interesting and different about Telegram is it allows these huge group conversations on the platform, up to
200,000 users can be in a single chat. And they're these protected private conversations.
Other platforms, mainstream social media networks like Metas, WhatsApp, don't allow such big groups because they're concerned about the spread of
disinformation.
So I wouldn't be surprised if that's one of the things that we see come into play in this case against Pavel Durov.
ASHER: All right. Clare Duffy live for us there. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: The captain of the luxury yacht that sank in violent weather off Sicily has been formally named in a criminal investigation, according to
Italian authorities.
James Cutfield is being investigated for possible manslaughter and negligence with regards to the shipwreck. Investigators are looking into
whether the crew's actions contributed to the sinking.
ASHER: Yes. Seven people were killed when the yacht went down about a week ago in a storm, including British tech tycoon, Mike Lynch and his daughter
Hannah.
Over the weekend, the people of Porticello, Sicily, put flowers in the sea and said prayers in remembrance of the victims.
GOLODRYGA: How tragic.
Well, coming up for us, the debate. About the debate. Should there be a mute button when Kamala Harris and Donald Trump face off in two weeks?
We'll discuss.
ASHER: Plus, the U.S. is celebrating a thrilling Little League World Series baseball championship. We'll have that story for you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:20:24]
ASHER: All right. It was three years ago today that 13 U.S. service members died in an attack on the Kabul airport during the U.S.'s withdrawal from
Afghanistan.
GOLODRYGA: Donald Trump marked the anniversary by appearing alongside the families of some of those fallen soldiers and laying a wreath at Arlington
Cemetery.
In a social media post, Trump called the incident the most embarrassing moment in U.S. history and blaming it on the Biden administration.
ASHER: As for Kamala Harris, she is in Washington where aides say that she's working on preparations for the September 10th debate with Trump. The
two campaigns have apparently agreed to all the elements of the debate, except for whether or not microphones will be left on when the other
candidate is speaking.
Harris' team wants the mic on. They say that Trump's handlers worry he will look on un-presidential without a mute button.
GOLODRYGA: Trump is traveling to Detroit where he is due to address a National Guard Convention in a couple of hours from now.
CNN's Kristen Holmes is there. And, Kristen, we just got video a short time ago of Donald Trump responding to this, I guess, new debate, about the
debate, and the issue surrounding the mute button. What is he saying about it?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. He appeared to be undercutting his campaign's argument, essentially saying he didn't know what he would
prefer, but maybe he would prefer having the mics on. So just to give a little bit of context here, the original debate, when it was agreed to
between President Joe Biden and Donald Trump, was the same rules that we saw at the CNN debate, one of which was muting the mic when the other
person wasn't talking.
And I will remind you that Donald Trump's team didn't really love that. They actually thought that it would be better for Donald Trump to not have
a muted mic. But as time went on, as they got closer to the debate, they thought it actually could benefit him.
And here's one thing that's clear. Donald Trump's team feels really good about what happened in the last debate, and they want to really mimic those
results, and that included having muted mics.
So here, we're at some sort of a standoff that appears between Donald Trump's team and Kamala Harris' team. Kamala Harris' team is saying, you
never agreed to the rules with us. We are a new candidate, and we want those mics to be unmuted.
Donald Trump's team is saying, oh, wait, wait, wait. When we agreed to the rules that Joe Biden, we agreed to having muted mics.
Now here's what's interesting about this. A lot of this is just jockeying on each side for each candidate, because I'll remind you what happened a
few weeks ago, when Donald Trump pulled out of the debate, because Kamala Harris was at the top of the ticket, you heard Harris' camp saying, wait,
you already agreed to this debate.
Donald Trump's camp saying, well, it's totally different now. Now the sides have reversed. Essentially, everybody wants what's best again for their
candidate.
Of course, the big question now being, what's going to happen on September 10th? Are they both going to show up? And right now, they just appear to be
in a standoff about this one issue.
Moving forward, it appears that they both want to debate, but how they overcome this will wait and see. Don't think it's very helpful to Donald
Trump's campaign to have him go out there and kind of undercut everything that they're saying, and essentially say, oh, no, I'd prefer to have the
debates unmuted.
But also we know about Donald Trump, he never wants to appear like he can't do something. So the idea that he would get out there and say, oh, I can't
do it if the mics are unmuted, it's not something you're ever going to hear from the former president.
GOLODRYGA: It's also his MO. I mean, he's undermined and undercut. His advisors and campaign spokespeople, you know, for many years now, and many
election cycles. So this is really nothing new.
Kristen Holmes in Detroit for us, thank you so much.
ASHER: Thank you, Kristen.
GOLODRYGA: Well, for a more in-depth conversation about all this, we welcome in Thomas Gift. He is the Director of the Center for U.S. Politics
at the University College of London. Thomas, welcome to the program.
So again, going back to some of the constant familiar lines from Donald Trump, he seems to now be raising the doubt about whether or not he will
even be participating in this debate on September 10th on ABC, saying, quote, stay tuned and really trashing ABC, saying that it's not a fair news
organization.
[12:25:14]
But in terms of the significance of this debate, it appears the tables are turned, whereas the last debate was really pivotal for Joe Biden. And he
was the one who instigated the call for the debate, as soon as it was, to present himself as strong and not old as he'd already been seen by not just
Republicans, but Democrats.
We saw the result of that for him. What could be the downfall for Donald Trump going into this debate, A, if he doesn't perform well and B, if he
doesn't show up at all?
THOMAS GIFT, DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR U.S. POLITICS AT THE UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF LONDON: Well, thanks so much for having me. It's great to be
with you. I think you're right that the script has really been flipped in this debate. Last time Donald Trump liked the contrast with Joe Biden, this
time, he seems not to like it very much.
I do think that some of this is just a gamesmanship by Trump. He's trying to get a little bit of leverage to convince Kamala Harris maybe to do
another debate on Fox News. But I do think that there are some risks here, just like there were some risks associated with Joe Biden attending.
At the same time, Trump is really losing momentum right now. And so I think he should like at least an opportunity to kind of change where the
direction of the race is heading.
ASHER: Speaking of momentum, let's talk about Kamala Harris' war chest. $540 million since she launched her campaign. A lot of it coming from an
unprecedented amount of grassroots donations.
A third of last week's donations during the DNC came from first-time contributors. A lot of them were women. A fifth of them were young voters,
teachers and nurses are among the most common donor professions.
I mean, what does that tell you just looking at the breakdown of those numbers there? And how does the Harris campaign really keep the momentum
going here?
GIFT: I think you're right that the campaign donations, especially kind of the nickel and dime ones, reflect grassroots enthusiasm and energy, which
the Democratic Party really hasn't seen very much of.
You know, there was a lot of pent-up supply of donors who didn't want to give whenever Joe Biden was still the nominee. A lot of that came through.
But Harris has to be especially enthusiastic that a lot of first-time donors and those maybe who typically wouldn't give are chipping in $5, $10,
$25. I mean, that is certainly good because it reflects the energy within the Democratic base. I mean, obviously, money is very important.
To a large extent, most of these funds are just canceling each other out. I mean, Pennsylvania, for example. It's impossible to turn on the TV without
saying an ad for Donald Trump or Kamala Harris or one of their super PACs.
But at the same time, if you're not raising that money, if you don't have it, then you can really get beat in some of these swing states.
There is, you know, some debate about whether money causes campaigns to win or whether winning campaigns sort of are associated with more funds coming
in. But either way, this is good news for Harris.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Maybe a little bit of both. What's interesting, Thomas, is that we seem to be seeing debates within both parties about how much these
candidates should focus on policies, specifics.
And from the Kamala Harris campaign, there are those that are saying that she has a short runway now with the election just a few months from now.
And she should veer away from focusing on some of the specifics and more towards her messaging of change and joy and just the vibe that she would be
the candidate of change, even though she is the sitting vice president.
And from the Republicans, you hear all of Trump surrogates go to the airwaves time and time again, saying that this election will be one for him
if he focuses on policies, specifics, and not trashing Kamala Harris personally, whether it's Lindsey Graham, whether it's Tom Cotton. And it
seems Donald Trump is sticking to his former script. And that is not focusing on the policy.
So I'm wondering from your perspective, which argument is right?
GIFT: I think you've laid that out really nicely. And I think for Kamala Harris, she's gotten this far by not being very specific about policies and
largely seen a surge in polls because of vibes.
I'm not sure if she can continue that though for another couple of months that works for the first few weeks where all the enthusiasm and energy was
around sort of the change of nominee. But eventually she's going to have to sit down and give an interview. She's going to have to give a press
conference. The longer she waits to do that, I think the more Republicans will criticize her for it.
I think when it comes to Donald Trump, he would be smart to focus on policy. I think that he does have an argument to be made surrounding
inflation, the extent to which Kamala Harris is tied to the Biden administration and Biden economics. Obviously, he cares a lot about
immigration and many of his voters are motivated by that.
[12:30:15]
But he's had a really difficult time pivoting, I think, to Kamala Harris being the nominee. A lot of his attacks have been quite ad hominem and
functional. And I don't think that that's resonated very much with swing voters.
ASHER: And in terms of the showmanship of the debate, which we're about to see in a couple of weeks, how much of the debate is going to be about
attacks, responding to attacks versus policy, do you think?
GIFT: Yes. I mean, it's always difficult to know what the exact chemistry will be between two candidates, but I think it's going to be a lot of
attacks. I think it's going to be a lot of blood-splinting. And that's in large part because that's what Donald Trump does at debates.
I mean, that and sort of -- sort of spew out a fire hose of lies and misinformation --
ASHER: But is that the best way to win debates? Is that the best way to win debates though do you think? Is that the best way to win debates though?
How well you attack the other person --
GIFT: Yes.
ASHER: -- versus policy?
GIFT: I think it's very hard to win debates outright now. You know, it was kind of an exception with what we saw with Joe Biden, but really debates
are about viral moments to sort of go on social media and kind of make a scene.
Both candidates, after debates, they're kind of -- they're going to go into their spin room and they're going to spin and say, oh, yes, Donald Trump
won and yes, Kamala Harris won.
I mean, voters say that they don't like negativity, but at the same time, they tend to respond well to negativity. So there's a bit of a contrast
there.
And it may be different for the different personalities involved. I mean, Donald Trump supporters do like the fact that when he goes on in the
attack, Kamala Harris' supporters and moderate voters, maybe not so much.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. It's interesting. Voters say they go into a debate wanting to watch something about policy specifics, but perhaps they're tuning in
for more of the fireworks.
ASHER: Borderline entertainment.
GIFT: It's an entertainment.
ASHER: Yes, exactly.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, exactly.
ASHER: Thomas Gift from the Center of U.S. politics at the University College London, UCL. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.
GOLODRYGA: And still to come for us, a heavy exchange of fire between Israel and Hezbollah over the weekend. Just ahead, we'll look at what this
means for the Gaza truce talks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:35:05]
ASHER: All right. Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.
Back to our top story in the Middle East. The United Nations has paused aid deliveries in Gaza after Israel ordered new evacuations in Central Gaza.
ASHER: Yes. Thousands of people have been sheltering there. The U.N. says it's trying to find new location to base operations. Much of the population
of Gaza is dependent on aid organizations for food, clean water, and shelter.
The announcement from the U.N. comes after cross-border attacks between Israel and Hezbollah.
GOLODRYGA: Israel launched what's been called preemptive strikes against Iran-backed Hezbollah in Lebanon on Sunday.
ASHER: Soon after the Israeli attacks, Hezbollah fired hundreds of rockets and drones towards Israel in retaliation for the assassination of top
Hezbollah commander last month.
GOLODRYGA: U.S. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan addressed fears of a broader war while on a visit to Canada.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE SULLIVAN, UNITED STATES NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We have been concerned about the conflict escalating into an all-out regional war since
October 7th. And we have worked around the clock with partners and allies, moving military assets, engaging in intensive diplomacy, both publicly and
privately behind the scenes, to avert that outcome. We continue to avert that outcome.
And our hope is that the events of last night do not spill out into an escalation that leads to regional war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: The weekend attacks also did not seem to impact another round of Gaza's ceasefire and hostage deal talks in Cairo. Although there's still no
deal, the U.S. says progress was made.
ASHER: Time now for The Exchange. We certainly do have a lot to unpack here.
David Daoud is a senior fellow on Israel, Hezbollah, and Lebanon at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. He joins us live now from
Washington, D.C. David, thank you so much for being with us.
All right. The whole world collectively, I think, over the weekend, breathed a sigh of relief that it didn't escalate into a wider war. But it
is important to note that Iran is still yet to respond to the killing of Haniyeh in Tehran.
Just explain to us, just between Israel and Hezbollah, who really does have the most to lose here if this does end up escalating?
DAVID DAOUD, SENIOR FELLOW, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: First of all, thank you for having me on. I think the expectation that it would --
it would not lead to war was obvious from the outset. Hezbollah -- both sides have a lot to lose, but I would say Hezbollah has more to lose.
Hezbollah has not been in a situation where it can take on the Israelis for some years now. That's -- and that's putting aside the conventional
superiority that the Israelis have.
Hezbollah is in a situation now where it's still recovering from its involvement in the Syrian civil war. And then two years after that, right,
after 2017, where major operations in Syria ended -- Lebanon's economy collapses.
Now Lebanon is also in a -- in a position of political stalemate, where Hezbollah to compound that with security conflagration, a destructive war
of unprecedented scale with the Israelis. They'd be hard pressed by their base, who, you know, for all of their distaste for Israel, let's put it
that way, don't want a war for the sake of the Palestinian cause, however much they may sympathize with it.
GOLODRYGA: David, I was speaking to a senior Israeli security official yesterday who said that the IDF had managed to destroy about two-thirds of
the planned munitions that Hezbollah had been intending on launching over the weekend.
And what's interesting is that from a number of Israelis, when you speak to them, they take issue with this being called a preemptive strike.
First, they say that Hezbollah had started launching rockets into Israel on October 8th. Second, they say that this attack on Saturday had already been
set from Hezbollah, meeting that the timers on the launchers were about to go off just 30 minutes before the warplanes shot them down.
[12:40:06]
Talk to us about what this means bigger picture because this could have presented Israel with a situation where they would have been forced to then
perhaps lead to a regional war if they would have seen a massive attack from Hezbollah forcing them to then respond even more significantly.
DAOUD: Well, I think the Israelis themselves have also called it the (INAUDIBLE), a preventative strike if we're going to be literal. And, yes,
it's correct that Hezbollah began operations unprovoked against Israel began these attacks on October 8th. They've admitted as much.
They've tried to kind of thread the needle later, but the Israelis were preventing an attack that was in the offing. So it's not exactly an
unprovoked strike by the Israelis.
At the same time, look, the Israelis, when they assassinated Fuad Shukr, the way they assassinated him publicly, they claimed it. They did it in
Beirut in Hezbollah's stronghold in South Beirut. And the intelligence capability that they demonstrated.
There were been reports that he was lured to his demise by a cell phone call minutes earlier. This demonstrated a large and sophisticated
capability on behalf of the Israelis and added insult to injury. Basically they humiliated and embarrassed Hezbollah in addition to knocking off their
top commander.
Hezbollah had to do something that was commensurate with this Israeli offense, let's call it. And at the same time, they have to navigate the
situation that we discussed earlier, this lack of desire for war. So they had to thread the needle very carefully to cause the Israeli's pain, but at
the same time, not give the Israelis sufficient legitimacy to broaden their campaign in Lebanon.
Now, what they're doing now is claiming a success for this operation where there was no success. And this was to be expected that Hezbollah would fill
the gap between the image they want to present and reality with propaganda.
ASHER: And just in terms of what we're seeing on the northern border of Israel and Lebanon, obviously, there has been a de-escalation in terms of
what we saw this weekend. But is there any way to have a ceasefire between Hezbollah and Israel without a ceasefire happening first in Gaza?
DAOUD: Absolutely not, because Hezbollah doesn't want one. They've stuck to this repeatedly. This has been their position from the outset, from when
Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah addressed the conflict for the first time on November 3rd.
In July, on July 10th, he reiterated this position that the second that the guns fall silent in Gaza, that is when Hezbollah's guns will fall silent.
And yesterday, he also reiterated this point again that Hezbollah will continue attacking, that it remains undeterred in continuing to attack
until a prior ceasefire in Gaza is achieved.
Now, this doesn't mean that Hezbollah isn't suffering. They're stuck between this promise that they've made to continue attacking. And a war of
attrition that they launched, but which according to their Deputy Secretary General, Naim Qassem, addressing NBC News in April, has lasted a lot longer
than they initially expected.
GOLODRYGA: And, David, we've spent quite a bit of time now talking about the schism between the defense establishment in Israel and the prime
minister himself. The defense establishment has really in lockstep with the U.S. government over the past few months been pushing for a ceasefire and
hostage deal right now, saying now may be the last opportunity, for one, to bring these hostages home alive and to see the fighting pause in Gaza for a
significant period of time.
But they've gone even a step further suggesting that one of the reasons for a ceasefire now is not because it'll lead to a long-term ceasefire or
detente with Hezbollah, but quite the opposite, that it would give Israel the opportunity to regroup its forces and perhaps then focus once again on
what many of you as an -- as an inevitable great war against Hezbollah, perhaps even larger than the last one we saw in 2006.
DAOUD: There's validity to that logic. Israel, you know, has not built its idea. The idea of doctrine is not built for long wars. It is traditionally
focused on short, overwhelming campaigns.
At the same time, another opportunity to engage Hezbollah may not present itself. As you noted, this war, this future war with Hezbollah will be more
destructive. If we look at Hezbollah's evolution when the Israelis withdrew from South Lebanon in 2000, Hezbollah was relative to today a ragtag
military organization.
And then fast forward to 2006, they're vastly more powerful. And then compound that with the experiences they've gained in Syria, the expansion
of their arsenal that's ballooned to something like 150,000 to 200,000 projectiles of various sorts. Add another 10 years, another 15 years, and
Hezbollah is not going to give Israel another opportunity to do it damage if the guns fall silent until, not just it is prepared to initiate that
future conflict, but its partners in the region are also prepared to join in. This is something that they said.
[12:45:29]
And I think most ominously what the -- what the resistance axis, this coalition of Iranian-led groups would like to have once that regional war -
- once they launched that regional war, is an Iranian nuclear umbrella.
It doesn't mean that Iran will use it, will drop a nuclear bomb on Israel in that moment. It will simply use rattling the nuclear saber at that time
to force Israel to accept the status quo. That might not be sustainable for the Israelis in the long run.
GOLODRYGA: And they're very close to being nuclear capable, as we know, and it's one of the reasons that people like the Defense Minister Gallant had
been arguing in the immediate days following October 7th to attack Hezbollah first before even going to Gaza. And of course that was denied.
David Daoud, thank you so much.
ASHER: Thank you, David. All right --
DAOUD: Thank you.
ASHER: -- still to come, a stunning turn of events from outer space. NASA says, the Boeing Starliner is not safe enough yet for two astronauts to
return to -- she's (INAUDIBLE) to return to Earth on. We'll look at plan B, what plan B is to get the astronauts home.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He gets it down. Oh, it's perfect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a win away. (INAUDIBLE) Lake Mary is going to win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: OK. A huge win for little boys. Florida defeated Chinese Taipei in the Little League World Series. The games went into extra innings.
ASHER: Well, the teams were tied at the bottom of the eighth inning until Florida managed to get the go-ahead run. The first time any Florida-based
team has won that title. Those boys headed to the majors.
GOLODRYGA: Look at the ear-to-ear smiles on those kids. Well deserved, well done.
ASHER: NASA has decided how to bring home two astronauts who have been stuck in space for nearly three months now.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And it's not going to be any time soon that they're coming home. Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams will abandon the Boeing Starliner
that has been plagued with technical issues. And they'll return to Earth instead on a SpaceX capsule early next year.
CNN's Michael Holmes reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[12:50:07]
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A village in India seeking some help from above to bring U.S. astronaut Suni Williams back to earth.
Williams' father was from the village, so locals feel a special kinship to her and are praying for her safe return after an extended stay in space.
But NASA has finally given a more down-to-earth solution to just how and when Williams and fellow Boeing Starliner astronaut, Butch Wilmore, will
return to earth after spending nearly three months aboard the International Space Station on a mission that was only supposed to last a little more
than a week.
BILL NELSON, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: NASA has decided that Butch and Suni will return with Crew-9 next February and that Starliner will return un-crewed.
HOLMES (voice-over): It was Starliner's first time carrying astronauts to the ISS. But technical issues with thrusters made NASA reconsider the ride
home, opting instead to return the crew on a SpaceX spacecraft that's scheduled for an upcoming mission.
It's a setback for Boeing which has struggled to keep up with SpaceX in NASA's commercial crew program. But Nelson says hard lessons from the past
including the losses of two space shuttles weighed heavily on the decision.
NELSON: Our core value is safety and it is our North Star.
HOLMES (voice-over): NASA says it's reconfiguring the upcoming SpaceX Crew- 9 mission to send only two crew members to the ISS instead of four. Williams and Wilmore are both veterans of two long-duration stays on the
space station. And NASA says they're not only prepared to fill out the Crew- 9 team, but they're already hard at work.
DANA WEIGEL, NASA ISS PROGRAM MANAGER: Since they've been up there, they've been a welcome set of helping hands. They've already done about 100 hours
of work on 42 different experiments. And they've helped us with some of the critical station maintenance that we've had on board.
HOLMES (voice-over): Wilmore's family said that they were aware there could be a delay, which means more months of Facetiming to keep in touch.
DARYN WILMORE, DAUGHTER OF BUTCH WILMORE: It is so cool. He gives us a lot of earth views. I especially like seeing the sunset.
HOLMES (voice-over): And there'll be plenty more of those in space for Williams and Wilmore, which at least in NASA'S view is a safer option.
Michael Holmes, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: We'll be right back with more after the short break. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:55:19]
GOLODRYGA: Well, a special festival in the Netherlands had only one requirement to attend, and neither you or I can go because --
ASHER: Better not me.
GOLODRYGA: -- you must have red hair.
ASHER: More than 10,000 people from over half a dozen countries showed up for the Redhead Day Festival. They gathered for some dancing, photo-shoots
and workshops. Redheads make up just one to two percent of the world's population.
GOLODRYGA: They should have a day of their own. I get it. A festival of their own is well good for them.
ASHER: You and I should show up next time.
GOLODRYGA: We could get kicked out.
ASHER: And finally, more than 100 corgis were put to the test on Saturday at the third annual corgi race in Lithuania. Thousands of people showed up
to watch the little dogs take part in a costume contest that was judged by the public followed by the races.
GOLODRYGA: See, now that's an event we could have gone to. In fact, we had our --
ASHER: And not get kicked out. Yes.
GOLODRYGA: The organizer says the event shows corgis can actually run fast despite their short legs. Look how cute that dog is. Oh.
Well, that does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. Thanks so much for watching. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: I'm Zain Asher. "AMANPOUR" is up next. You're watching CNN.
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