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One World with Zain Asher
Lebanon: Hezbollah Pagers Explode, Killing Nine; Sean "Diddy" Combs Indicted On Federal Charges; CNN Obtained Disturbing Video Showing People At A Supermarket Giving A Glimpse Of What Happened In Several Places Across Lebanon; Lebanon: Hezbollah Pagers Explode, Nine Killed, 2.800 Injured; The U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is on his way back to the Middle East; Aired 12-1p ET
Aired September 17, 2024 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
[12:00:32]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST: And I'm Zain Asher. You are watching ONE WORLD.
You want to get right to a chaotic and unfolding situation in Lebanon right now. The country's health minister says that eight people were killed when
pagers, belonging to Hezbollah members exploded. Nearly 3,000 people were wounded. CNN obtained disturbing video showing people at a supermarket
giving a glimpse of what happened in several places across Lebanon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(EXPLOSION)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: The man you see there on the bottom of your screen, on the left, dropped to the floor clutching his stomach after the explosion.
Now this is a live look outside of a hospital in Beirut. Hospitals are overwhelmed with the amount of casualties. Lebanon's Ministry of Health is
calling for health workers to urgently report to work as Iran's state media reports that its ambassador to Lebanon was injured during the explosions.
CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is following the breaking news story from London.
So, Nick, I mean this is a major infiltration. Probably the biggest security breach this group has been subjected to since the start of the war
nearly a year ago. What more do we know so far?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean it's probably some of the most widespread violence to be inflicted
across Lebanon. Remember, this impacted, not only the southern suburbs of Beirut, but also other towns in the Beqaa Valley and in the south of
Lebanon too. Probably some of the worst violence inflicted across the population since the extensive war with Israel in 2006.
And it seems to be pagers which Hezbollah are currently blaming for simultaneously or roughly at the same time, exploding at about 3:30 this
afternoon, according to a statement from the group.
Now they say that their workers and some of their units were targeted by these explosions. They don't, in their statement, initially point to who
they believe was behind this.
Clearly, multiple devices detonating across a country would suggest some kind of coordinated attack, and obviously, you and I know there's only one
likely suspect for that at this point, which would be Israel.
But in their first statement, Hezbollah don't go to that particular extent. They refer to at that time three dead, although that number has now risen
to eight, possibly nine.
Of the nearly 3,000 injuries, you were talking about there. And there are some startling scenes here. I mean, you know, imagine a police force simply
telling individuals to stay off the city streets, to facilitate ambulances, getting to hospitals fast enough. That's really how widespread a casualty
incident they're dealing with here across the country.
Of those nearly 3,000 injured, it's told from some Lebanese officials. We're talking about 170 or so who are critically injured. And some of the
images we're seeing from hospitals across the country show individuals with significant injuries, digits missing on their hands, others with more
superficial injuries.
In fact, we led to believe that the Iranian ambassador, Mojtaba Amini (PH) who was -- Amani, who was caught up in one of these explosions, may have
suffered superficial injuries as well.
But it's really the psychological impact we're talking about here of these devices. It isn't entirely clear if there was the same type of device used
here and quite how these explosions were triggered. Was this some sort of cyber-attack? Or were these devices themselves include booby traps? These
will be things that Hezbollah say they're investigating now form key part of that particular scrutiny.
But the psychological impact of multiple devices exploding across the country will be enormous, particularly upon the militant group Hezbollah
themselves, who pride themselves on their security and clearly here appear to have, it seems, resorted to a low-tech device like a pager to
potentially try and evade the sort of tracking a smartphone might enable the Israeli authorities to have. And that itself seems here to potentially
be involved in this widespread attack.
But I should point out amongst the critically injured and the dead, there appear to be civilians who were caught up in this as well. Hezbollah, from
families nearby, civilians you could see in that supermarket instant close as well.
And there will be I think many Lebanese furious at the extent of the injuries suffered across the population here. While this appears to be
targeted some, of course, will appear indiscriminate in some of the specific attacks.
But above all we are talking about a phenomenal infiltration of Hezbollah's communications network. And that's going to speak to exactly how they're
able to respond in the days and hours ahead.
They're unable, it seems, to some degree, to communicate safely. That will be the first thing that individuals in that group will be worried about who
in their mind and control wants to use a page or even a smartphone right now in order to try and establish what capabilities they have remaining and
what response they might choose to fashion.
[12:05:15]
Remember, this isn't some incident in isolation. We've been nearly into a year now of slow back and forth, tit for tat, air strikes, rocket attacks
between northern Israel, from which tens of thousands of Israelis have been evacuated because of Hezbollah rocket strikes, and southern Lebanon, where
the Israeli Air Force and artillery have visited significant damage on the communities and settlements around there too.
It's gone back and forth, close to the brink. Most recently in the past three to four weeks, where after the assassination of a key Hezbollah
commander, again, in the southern suburb of Dahieh in Beirut.
The Hezbollah leader, Hassan Nasrallah, suggested some kind of response, but that appears to be quite well telegraphed and at the same time too
something which the Israelis tried to preempt by launching airstrikes on what seems to have been Hezbollah rocket positions in the south of Lebanon.
A muted response there. And now we see many will blame Israel here potentially as the culprit for this significant violation of Hezbollah's
own operational security.
Is this the prelude to something larger? Or is this an operation in itself that will mark the end to whoever's behind this trying to impact
Hezbollah's psychology? That's the key question in the hours and days ahead, certainly.
And it comes at a time of, again, heightened tension. Israel's defense minister suggesting the chance of a diplomatic solution to get Israelis
home to northern Israel was ebbing and this may be part of Israel's bid to perhaps get a competitive advantage in the forthcoming military maneuvers
or try and push Hezbollah closer and faster towards some kind of diplomatic solution.
ASHER: Yes. And as you point out though, the Israelis are staying mum on this. They're not saying anything. They're not claiming responsibility.
Obviously, we don't necessarily know for sure whether it was the Israelis, but we do know that typically they do not claim responsibilities for these
sorts of attacks.
Nick Paton Walsh live for us there. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Joining us now live from Beirut is Maha Yahya, the director of Carnegie Middle East Center. Maha, thank you so much for
joining us.
So Nick in his reporting was absolutely correct when he said in Hezbollah's initial statement. There was not a direct blame on Israel for this
coordinated -- appears to be coordinated attack. But Hezbollah has just followed up with a second statement in which they are blaming Israel for
the pager blasts across the country and said that Israel will, quote, get its fair punishment.
And again, as we heard from Nick, an extensive history of what's happened in the past year. Hezbollah began launching rockets into Israel on October
8th. And since then, we've seen an escalation in the back and forth between these two warring sides.
What do you expect to result from this attack, which, again, no statement, no confirmation from the Israelis, but at least you have Hezbollah blaming
Israel for today's attack?
MAHA YAHYA, DIRECTOR, CARNEGIE MIDDLE EAST CENTER: Good morning. And thank you for having me.
It's not clear what will happen next. One of the advisers of Benjamin Netanyahu actually tweeted a -- put out -- put out a tweet which he deleted
subsequently that seemed to hint that Israel is responsible for this.
In any case, there is a widespread belief beyond Hezbollah that Israel is - - within Lebanon at least -- that Israel is responsible for this.
We're looking at more than 2,700 people injured and eight dead, nine dead, including a 10-year-old girl.
What will happen next is not clear. Hezbollah is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They've been taking literally a beating over the past year.
They've lost more than 450 members of the organization, significant damage to their infrastructure, and now this.
So they've been -- they've lost the deterrence. They haven't lost it completely, but they've been hemorrhaging, if you like, a lot of their
deterrence.
How will they respond is another question. However, also one of the questions today on all of our minds is, is this also a first step in a
broader escalation that Israel is planning? Because we've also been hearing from the Israeli government that they would like to plan -- sorry, expand
the conflict into Lebanon in a more significant way than what we've seen so far.
ASHER: I mean, when you think about the scale of this attack, we're talking about 3,000 people wounded, 3,000 people wounded. These attacks taking
place in multiple towns across Lebanon. The fact that hospital workers are being urged to report to work just because of the scale of this. We know
that a number of people are dead, just a handful of people, at this point in time, but of course the death toll could rise.
[12:10:21]
Just explain to us the sort of intelligence apparatus that the Israelis have in Lebanon that would have allowed them to carry out this type of
attack.
YAHYA: It's not clear yet because we still don't know how these pagers were hacked. It looks like it was likely a security -- cybersecurity breach, but
it's not certain. There are other theories that are talking about an interruption to the supply chain.
These pagers, from what we know so far, were imported recently by Hezbollah. They're manufactured in Taiwan. And, you know, they've just
deployed them.
So it's still really not clear to us how they were hacked, whether it was, you know, a virus, which is the most likely scenario that we're hearing. A
virus that caused the lithium batteries to overheat and then explode. Or if there were some small charges placed on them while they were being shipped
from Taiwan to Lebanon. We don't know.
The injuries that we're hearing about are not obviously all Hezbollah because these things exploded while people were going about their daily
lives. So you saw -- we've seen images of people in hospitals, driving cars, in supermarkets, on the street.
So there are, again, as the time passes, we're going to get a better sense also of the civilian casualty.
I can tell you, I live near the American Hospital, American University Hospital in Beirut. And for almost two and a half hours, the ambulances did
not stop. Ambulance sirenses (PH) -- or sirens were passing by almost every minute. So it's huge.
GOLODRYGA: Maha, in terms of what you mentioned earlier in our conversation about a deterrent that could be used by Israel against Hezbollah. You've
now had three attacks, back to back, which shows the sophistication in terms of how Israeli intelligence is aware of the inner workings of
Hezbollah.
And that is the targeted assassination of Fuad Shukr a few months ago. Just last month, you had the Israelis in what they call a preemptive strike,
take out missile launchers in Lebanon that they said were already timed to launch missiles into the country. And then, obviously, you have today's
attack. We don't know much of the details. But as you note, Reuters also reporting that these pagers were recently purchased by Hezbollah.
Do you think that does serve as a deterrent for Hezbollah, which you describe as being put between a rock and a hard place in terms of how much
further they can escalate any attack? They are, as we have talked about for the past year, significantly better armed and a stronger fighting force
than Hamas which Israel continues to fight in Gaza?
YAHYA: I think they're looking at ways, and this is what they've been trying over the past year, which is continue to create a pressure front on
Israel towards the north, but without breaching a red line and giving the government of Bibi Netanyahu a pretext to attack Lebanon and launch an all-
out conflict.
They've also been relying on the U.S. The United States has been exerting significant pressure on Israel not to expand the conflict into Lebanon for
a number of reasons. One is this will very quickly escalate into a regional conflict far more than what it is today.
The rocket from Yemen, a few days ago, is just one signal, if you like. They also -- it would drag the United States itself into a conflict,
something this administration certainly does not want to do in the midst of an election cycle.
So there are various dynamics at play and it's very difficult to kind of figure out how this will develop. But from Hezbollah's perspective today,
they will need to respond. They have to respond because they feel like their silence and the second message that came out, their continued kind of
softer, if you like, softer from their perspective response has not protected them. On the contrary, you saw what happened today.
[12:15:04]
ASHER: Yes. They've said that they don't want necessarily -- they don't necessarily want a wider war. But you're right, if they don't respond, that
sends a different kind of message. They don't want to portray weakness either.
YAHYA: Basically, the sense is that the current Israeli government has been breaching every single red line it can. It continues to push the envelope
to see what it can get away with, and obviously, it's gotten away with a lot over the past year, including more than 41,000 people dead in Gaza, and
Gaza completely demolished.
So there is a sense that, you know, the pushback against Israel is simply not there in a sufficient way. And they're the ones taking the beating for
that.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Israel, we should note this morning, before this what appears to be a coordinated attack, said that they had foiled an attack
that they blamed Hezbollah for targeting a former Israeli security official as well.
YAHYA: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: So things are clearly escalating there between both sides.
Maha Yahya, thank you so much for the time.
ASHER: Thank you.
YAHYA: Thank you.
ASHER: All right. And we are following another breaking news story this hour.
He was once on top of the music business, now Sean "Diddy" Combs is sitting in federal custody. We'll look at the charges against him and what is next
for the rap icon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Sean "Diddy" Combs, one of music's biggest names, is now facing federal charges of sex trafficking, racketeering and other crimes.
ASHER: Yes. The rap mogul was arrested Monday night in New York and arrived at Manhattan Federal Court earlier today to hear the charges against him.
GOLODRYGA: The indictment against Sean Combs includes charges of racketeering, conspiracy, sex trafficking by force, fraud or coercion, and
transportation to engage in prostitution.
The U.S. Attorney explained what was behind those charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAMIAN WILLIAMS, U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: As a legend, the indictment to carry out this conduct, Sean Combs led and participated
in a racketeering conspiracy that used the business empire he controlled to carry out criminal activity, including sex trafficking, forced labor,
kidnapping, arson, bribery, and the obstruction of justice.
[12:20:00]
Let me say a little bit more about the charges. The indictment alleges that Combs abused and exploited women and other people for years, and in a
variety of ways.
As alleged, Combs used force, threats of force, and coercion to cause victims to engage in extended sexual performances with male commercial sex
workers, some of whom he transported or caused to be transported over state lines.
Combs allegedly planned and controlled the sex performances, which he called Freak Offs. And he often electronically recorded them. The Freak
Offs sometimes lasted days at a time, involved multiple commercial sex workers and often involved a variety of narcotics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Now before court, Combs' lawyer said that his client is innocent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARC AGNIFILO, SEAN COMBS ATTORNEY: He's going to plead not guilty, obviously. He's going to fight this with all of his energy and all of his
might and the full confidence of his lawyers. And I expect a long battle with a good result for Mr. Combs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He could be released?
AGNIFILO: So if you -- I'm going to fight like hell to get him released and he should be released.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: This all started last year when a former girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, filed suit against Combs saying that he physically assaulted her. He
initially denied it. But then earlier this year, CNN exclusively obtained this hotel surveillance video of Combs dragging and kicking.
I mean, this was unbelievably painful to watch. There he is running after her with his towel on, beating her, dragging her. I mean, yes, I can't -- I
can't.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Our own Elizabeth Wagmeister was the one who reported and obtained this video exclusively first for CNN and it's still as shocking to
watch today as it was then when we first saw it.
Josh Campbell joins us now from Los Angeles with a closer look at these charges. And they are indeed extremely disturbing, Josh.
And as we heard, these charges and these allegations and these alleged crimes have been going on for years. This is literally the man who has
handed the keys peace to New York City last year.
And one of the questions asked today was, how he could get away with this for so long. Give us more insight into what we heard.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Quite a continued fall from grace for this international music mogul now facing these very serious
federal crimes.
And it was that video that you just played that was exclusively obtained by CNN that was part of a series of incidents that essentially set in motion
this federal investigation. That incident that was caught on video camera where you see him there in that hotel room here in Los Angeles, brutally
assaulting his former girlfriend.
That was listed in a civil complaint that she had filed, but there have been numerous, at least nine civil lawsuits that have accused him of
improprieties, including sexual assault, including drugging, including human trafficking.
Now what we're learning is behind the scenes all along. There's been this federal investigation by U.S. law enforcement in what we're trying to
determine whether he was actually guilty of any crimes.
Today unsealing an indictment, as you mentioned, accusing him of multiple crimes. They essentially say that he was leading an enterprise that was a
criminal enterprise itself that existed for the sexual gratification of Sean Combs and used to commit other crimes.
Interestingly, he is the only one listed right now as being charged. But what authorities alleged is that everyone -- not everyone, a lot of people
who are in his orbit, to include housekeepers, to include members of his security staff. They were all involved in helping orchestrate this criminal
enterprise that facilitated sex trafficking of women, drugging of women, sexual assault. So very serious crimes.
What you're seeing there on your screen right now. This was that dramatic raid by U.S. law enforcement of homes owned by Combs, both in Los Angeles
and in Miami earlier this year.
You see a federal SWAT agents going in. And afterwards, Combs' legal team came out and blasted U.S. law enforcement saying, this was quote, a gross
overuse of military level force.
Of course now what we're learning in this indictment that was just unsealed that Comb's residences, in his position, were numerous high-powered assault
style rifles, including some that have their serial numbers obliterated, which itself is a crime here in the U.S.
And they also alleged that Combs had used firearms in the past to intimidate others. And so now we're -- I think we're seeing why the Feds
came in with such a heavy hand there as a precaution.
Now, as far as what happens next, as you mentioned, Comb's lawyer indicates that they will fight all of these charges.
The federal government is seeking to keep him in custody. While as this all plays out, a federal judge will decide whether that will actually take
place or whether there will be any type of bail agreement.
But again, we expect that he will fight these charges. We expect his initial appearance in court to be here in just a short amount of time,
guys.
[12:25:01]
GOLODRYGA: Serial numbers on handguns obliterated, if that sounds familiar to viewers. That's exactly one of the charges facing the alleged attempted
shooter and assassination attempt of former President Trump that we've been covering extensively as well.
Josh Campbell, thank you so much.
CAMPBELL: You bet.
GOLODRYGA: We appreciate it.
CAMPBELL: Thanks.
ASHER: Thank you, Josh.
All right. Let's get some more perspective now on the Sean Combs incident indictment, rather. We're joined live by attorney and legal affairs
commentator, Areva Martin.
Areva, thank you so much for being with us. I mean, how could your heart not break, right, for what these alleged victims apparently experience? And
I say alleged because we all saw the video. We all saw that horrific video out of that hotel room.
In terms of what we learned today, that in order to get women to perform sexual acts with male sex workers, he would distribute drugs, he would
control their careers, he would leverage his money, he would threaten to cut them off, he would use violence and intimidation.
And a lot of the victims didn't feel they could refuse him because he threatened more abuse. And he also brandished firearms as well.
I think my question to you is, when you look at the extent of the accusations against this man, obviously, the world became very familiar
with it after the Cassie Ventura lawsuit.
But some of these allegations against Diddy he go back to 1991, right? So that -- we're talking about 30 years of abuse against women in this
country.
Just talk to us a bit more about why it has taken so long to bring us to this point.
AREVA MARTIN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Yes. Great question. And we know why. We know why, because in telling Me Too movement, women were not believed
when they came forward and made accusations against powerful men.
There was an unspoken rule in this country, and I've been a civil rights attorney for over two decades. I've represented women who have been
sexually assaulted, sexually abused. And I know firsthand how difficult it was prior to the Me Too movement in order to make those kinds of claims
against a man. Oftentimes the woman would suffer repercussions. Her career would be maligned. Her reputation would be maligned.
And so many women suffered in silence. We saw women who were afraid, afraid not just for their careers, their family lives, but also for their physical
safety because of men like Diddy, Sean Combs, who used their power, who used their influence to perpetrate the kind of crimes that he's been
accused of.
And it wasn't until women came forward, and there was a seismic shift in this country around these types of allegations. And men like Harvey
Weinstein, R. Kelly, and others, Bill Cosby, were actually prosecuted that we started to see a shift in terms of how people view these cases. We've
seen legislation around making the statutes of limitations longer, so that women can file these claims, both civilly and criminal prosecutions.
And there is this sense now that it doesn't matter how much money or power you have. If you engage in this kind of heinous, reprehensible conduct, you
should be held accountable both criminally and civilly.
So I'm not surprised that these allegations go back to the 90s and that many of the victims were afraid to come forward. And it took the courage of
Cassie Ventura. And you will remember the bravado, the arrogance after that initial lawsuit was filed until we saw with our very eyes the kind of
assault that she was referencing in that lawsuit.
ASHER: As you point out, back in, what was it, 2017, 2018, obviously, the Me Too movement was a major inflection point in this country. It changed a
lot. But there was some concern, even at the time, and especially afterwards, that the voices of black women were left out of that movement.
A lot of black women, especially in the hip-hop world, have been very hesitant and very reticent to come forward. I mean, obviously, in this
particular case with Combs, there were firearms present. So that of course makes sense.
But just explain to us, in the wake of R. Kelly and now with Diddy, is that beginning to change? Are black women feeling much more safe and much more
comfortable sharing their experiences in this arena?
MARTIN: Well, we definitely have seen some change. Where we -- are we where we should be? The answer is categorically no.
There still is a stigma in this country. There still is this insidious racism that impacts our judicial system, that treats black women, women of
color, differently than white women are treated.
We still suffer from white women syndrome in the media. which, as you know, meaning that we cover the stories involving white women disproportionately
at greater rates than stories involving black women, that white women are more likely to be believed, are more likely to be sympathetic or to, you
know, gain sympathy from the public and from the media than black women.
But are we making some progress? Absolutely. Are we starting to see more African-American women come forward and tell their stories? And the Black
community embraced those women.
We saw that in the case of R. Kelly. It was that documentary that was created by a black woman about R. Kelly that was, in some ways, the
catalyst for the charges filed against him. And he was a beloved singer, performer, artist in the black community, in the same way that Sean Combs
has been beloved in the African-American, particularly the hip-hop, the rap, the music culture.
[12:30:22]
But women are recognizing this isn't about race. This isn't about ethnicity. This is about abuse. And it's about men like Sean Combs using
his power to coerce, to force, to sexually assault women. And women are standing up saying no more.
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
ASHER: And it's worth noting, by the way, that it took a powerful woman like Cassie, who, by the way, is famous in her own right coming forward to
be believed. And, of course, that led to other lawsuits as well. So just think about what it took. What it actually took to get to this point.
GOLODRYGA: And what made these charges even more egregious is the number of accomplices allegedly to have allowed or enabled a lot of this behavior as
well for so many years.
Areva Martin, thank you for joining us. Our breaking news continues right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: All right. Returning back to our top story. Nearly 3,000 people in Lebanon have been injured after their pagers exploded and at least nine
people are said to be dead.
[12:35:01]
ASHER: Yes. The militant group, Hezbollah, says Israel is behind the attack and vowed retribution. Many of the wounded are members of Hezbollah. Among
the wounded are the wounded is Iran's ambassador to Lebanon.
GOLODRYGA: There are reports that hospitals in Lebanon are being overrun now with people who are currently injured.
ASHER: CNN's Paula Hancocks is tracking this story for us. So in terms of possible retaliation, if we look at past as prologue, well, remember that
when Fuad Shukr was murdered by allegedly the Israelis, we saw Hezbollah retaliate with hundreds of drones fired towards Northern Israel. Obviously,
it didn't have much of an impact. But what can we glean from that about the possible retaliation we may see this time around?
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Zain, we've already heard from Hezbollah. They've said that they hold Israel fully responsible, and they
have vowed to retaliate. They said that there will be retribution. Of course, it is a -- it's a big question, what will that retribution look
like? What form will it take?
You do mention that they have used drones in the past as retaliation. We certainly know they have a significant arsenal of missiles, whether or not
they would want to try and overwhelm the missile defense systems of Israel with shorter range and drones, or whether they would prefer to use some of
the longer range missiles that they have largely kept in reserve during the tit-for-tat we have seen on almost a daily basis over recent months. It's
uncertain how they would retaliate at this point.
But another question is how they would be able to retaliate. Bearing in mind, as the -- that the minister of health has pointed out, there's some
2,700 plus people injured. We know that nine have been killed. And we understand an awful lot of them are Hezbollah members.
So many are injured and, of course, how would they now communicate given those pages are non-functioning.
ASHER: All right. Paula Hancocks live for us there in Abu Dhabi. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: Let's bring in Jon Alterman. He's the director of the Middle East program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Jon, thank you for joining us. So in terms of the timing now, obviously, Israel has not issued any statement. Hezbollah is blaming Israel for this
attack, but it comes as the U.S. envoy, Amos Hochstein, as in the region, just met with the defense minister yesterday, as well as the prime
minister, given the concern from the U.S.'s standpoint about what another front that between Israel and Hezbollah in the north could look like. The
U.S. has a significant presence that remains in the region.
Do you view this as yet another escalation to a potential second war between, or now third, between Israel and Hezbollah, perhaps even larger
than the scale that we've seen in the last one from 20 -- 2006?
JON ALTERMAN, DIRECTOR OF THE MIDDLE EAST PROGRAM AT THE CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: I suspect that Israel calculated that
Hezbollah really didn't want to escalate, and therefore, Israel could escalate a little bit without getting into an escalation game with
Hezbollah.
Exactly what they were trying to prove to Hezbollah, at this moment, I'm not sure. But certainly one of the consequences of this is Hezbollah must
doubt that they have secure supply lines for anything, that they have secure communications for anything.
I don't know what the Israelis were thinking. It may be that they were trying to fill Hezbollah with doubt. But Hezbollah, as your reporter was
saying, may feel that it needs to demonstrate to Israel, it won't take this line down. We could get into escalation.
I don't think anybody intends for it to really be the big war, but certainly, we're playing with fire and we could get there.
ASHER: If members of Hezbollah can't even reach each other, they can't even communicate with each other in a way that is safe and secure, how on earth
do they even begin to go about coordinating some kind of a response?
ALTERMAN: Well, there are things that Hezbollah can do that have human communications, as indeed Hamas has demonstrated an ability to do a lot
without getting on cell phones. Hezbollah had been staying off cell phones reportedly during part of this war.
Again, I think a lot of it -- I'm not sure exactly how these pagers got in, how they're distributed, whether it sort of implicates somebody who the
Israeli wanted to discredit in Hezbollah.
When we find out more, we can understand a little bit more about Israeli intentions. But from a Hezbollah point of view, the first thing is, how in
the world could this ever happen? I mean, they think the Israelis are powerful.
But all those exploding pagers into the country at once? That suggests these Israelis have an awful lot of secret capability inside Lebanon.
ASHER: All right. Jon Alterman, live for us there. Thank you so much.
We'll have much more on this breaking news story after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:40:40]
GOLODRYGA: Well, more now on top story, an extraordinary series of explosions across Lebanon today.
ASHER: The country's health minister says that nine people have been killed including a child and 2,800 others injured in an attack that targeted
pagers belonging to members of Hezbollah. Iran's ambassador was among the people wounded.
The health ministry is urging people to discard their pagers and warning hospitals to be on high alert.
GOLODRYGA: Hezbollah says that it is holding Israel responsible and is vowing retribution. The Israeli military is not commenting.
David Daoud is an expert on Lebanon and Hezbollah and a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. He joins us live now from
Washington.
David, good to see you again. Just talk to us a bit more about the psychological impact of this. I mean, we had obviously a handful of people
that lost their lives in this attack. We've got 3,000 people wounded in this coordinated attack, including in several cities across Lebanon. Talk
to us a bit more about the psychological impact on Hezbollah.
DAVID DAOUD, SENIOR FELLOW, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Thank you again for having me on.
I think -- I mean, there is a tremendous psychological impact that's going to be had on Hezbollah. This comes a short period after the assassination
of Hezbollah's commander-in-chief, Fuad Shukr, a month and a half ago, which also required deep penetration by the Israeli intelligence apparatus
of Hezbollah's organizational structure.
Shukr was lured to his death by a cell phone call, as far as we can know, that happened minutes before his death. And a precise airstrike was able to
take him out afterwards.
There's also been, over the course of the past 11 months, a state of assassinations against top Radwan Force commanders. It's Hezbollah's elite
commando force. And this has occurred in real time. These guys will be driving or riding on motorbikes in South Lebanon. The Israelis will be able
to find them, identify them. These guys are anonymous up until that point and take them out in real time.
This is a further testament, I would say, to the penetration of Hezbollah's organizational structure. You're already seeing statements by Hezbollah
asking its followers to discard their communications devices. And not to report on the names of the casualties and their identities. They're trying
to create confusion as to who was killed and who was -- who was harmed by this Israeli attack. They feel -- they feel that the Israelis are able to
reach them.
[12:45:01]
GOLODRYGA: David, what do we make, again, of the timing of this attack? Today, it follows earlier this morning, the Shin Bet announcing that it had
foiled what they described as an attempted attack by Hezbollah against a former Israeli security official.
We had the Israeli war cabinet convened yesterday and acknowledged that they would now also prioritize the north and the concerns there about tens
of thousands of residents still not being able to return home. We should note that's the same position among tens of thousands of Lebanese in the
south at the border.
Given the timing of that, given what many are concerned over, an already escalating war that's brewing between Hezbollah and Israel, what should we
read into today's action?
DAOUD: I mean, I think it's hard to predict such things, but I think you hit the timeline on the head.
Earlier today, you noted Shin Bet said that an assassination attempt was foiled against a former Israeli security official. The way that
assassination attempt was supposed to occur is with an explosive device that was supposed to be detonated remotely from Lebanon.
This could be a demonstration by the Israelis that if you were going to attempt something like this, Hezbollah, from Lebanon, our reach is far more
expansive and we can -- we can harm you a lot more.
There is also a shift to the North in terms of the war effort. This has been kind of the ignored war that has been going on amidst the focus on
Gaza. The fighting in the North has been much more intense. And the return of the Israelis to the North is something that the Israeli cabinet, as you
noted, has placed as a priority for the current war effort.
There is really no way to ensure that that will occur, at least as I can see without some kind of military campaign that would distance Hezbollah
from the north. The diplomatic efforts that are on the table are simply insufficient to guarantee that Hezbollah will not return to the border.
And once that happens, imagine a situation where Hezbollah operatives return to the border, Israeli civilians return to northern Israel. And then
something as simple as Hezbollah operatives shining laser pointers into the homes of Israelis in a town like Metula, is going to take on a much more
ominous tone than it did prior to October 7th, in light of October 7th, and in light of the threats that Hezbollah itself has made against Israeli
civilians to conduct its own October 7th-style attack.
So I think the Israeli cabinet is taking into consideration that increasingly fewer peaceful options to achieve a satisfactory resolution
are available.
ASHER: And so in terms of the Israeli sort of strategy here. One of our correspondents brought up a really good point, and that is, the question
is, were these attacks a standalone attack or a prelude to something greater? As in, taking out the communication system for Hezbollah, could
that be the beginning of a much wider attack against the group?
DAOUD: It very well could be. Disrupting a group's communications or any military's organizations' communications is critical to a war effort. It
could also be an attempt to get Hezbollah to overreact.
Right now there is -- it's not just the kinetic impact on the organization. There is a humiliation that is -- that is attached to this. The fact that
Hezbollah's operatives, Hezbollah presents itself as this invulnerable, strong, mighty resistance organization that is capable of either deterring
or defeating Israel at any point in time.
And the fact that the Israelis cannot just kill their top military commander, but a short time afterwards targets so many, it seems hundreds
of their operatives all at once, demonstrates the vulnerability of this organization.
And so they're going to have to do something to demonstrate to their base that they are not vulnerable. Otherwise, they're going to risk the utility
which they present themselves at their base being harmed.
This may force them to overreact and give Israel a justification for launching a broader campaign, a ground campaign, perhaps, that does
considerable damage to Hezbollah's capabilities, at least in South Lebanon.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And we're out of time, but one name we should note that hasn't been mentioned yet as we're talking about increased escalation is
that of Iran. Because remember, we were still anticipating some sort of response, possibly from Iran, following the assassination of Ismail Haniyeh
a few months ago. One of the reasons why the U.S. has still so many assets in the region, as well as U.S. officials traveling there frequently.
David Daoud, thank you so much. Good to see you again. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:50:29]
ASHER: All right. We've been getting reaction to the exploding pagers in Lebanon that killed at least nine people and wounded nearly 3,000. The
Lebanese government has condemned it and blamed Israel. Israel, still not commenting so far.
We're waiting to hear from the U.S. as the Secretary of State Antony Blinken is on his way to the region.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. The next hour, we expect to hear from the State Department where they will presumably be pressed on the situation.
Security sources tells CNN that it was a coordinated attack on members of the militant group, Hezbollah. And Hezbollah says Israel is now
responsible.
Let's bring in CNN's Jim Sciutto in Washington with more.
And, Jim, it's notable, a revolving door of U.S. officials. Amos Hochstein was in the region yesterday meeting with the defense minister and the prime
minister. Now, we're reporting that Antony Blinken will be traveling as well.
Clearly, the U.S.'s focus is to keep pressing on de-escalation, yet, that doesn't seem to be playing out in these reports that we're seeing.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF U.S. SECURITY ANALYST: Listen, Israel, of course, hasn't commented yet, if it turns out to be Israel. It's a -- and even if
it is in Israel, right, it's a significant attack.
Someone, some country with a very capable intelligence service, was able to get dozens, perhaps hundreds of pager devices to explode, causing injury,
and touch Hezbollah across a broad portion of its force in Lebanon.
I mean, imagine, and as they were separate in separate places all over the country, that's a pretty remarkable attack and strike. There's really no
other weapon that could do that, right? Strike so many people in so many different places at one time.
Again, we don't know who did it. Israel's not commenting. But the fact that this attack was carried out is significant in that sense. And it is -- it
is both an enormous capability, but also one that exposes a vulnerability inside Hezbollah.
One in a series of vulnerabilities, right? Because, of course, you have had senior leaders that have been killed as well in recent weeks and months. So
you have that piece of it. It's significant in that sense.
It's also significant because, Bianna, as you say, enormous effort being invested in the region, particularly by the U.S., to keep the conflict from
escalating. And this is the kind of thing you've already heard from Hezbollah, that it will, presumably, attempt to respond to part of a latest
cycle of attack and retaliation that we've seen for so long, which could, of course, then lead to escalation, because it's each side's own estimation
of what is proportional.
[12:55:01]
We talk about proportional response all the time, but who's defining what proportional is? And this is a significant attack. And if they blame Israel
for it, you might be able to expect a significant attack in response.
ASHER: Jim, Hezbollah, in the past, has said that while they don't want a wider war with Israel, they are indeed prepared for one.
Explain to us how prepared are they, especially given the fact that they're obviously crippled now by this attack.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, they have the weapons to do so. We've talked about this a lot on the air. They have many tens of thousands of missiles and
rockets. While I was in Israel, until a couple of weeks ago, you'll remember that Saturday, or rather Sunday morning, when there was an
attempted attack on Israel, that, according to U.S. and Israeli officials. They got wind of and were able to attack those Hezbollah firing positions
prior to that attack, perhaps just a half hour before the attack was planned.
So, you know, that is not a -- an imagined threat. We know they have these weapons systems. And it was just a short time ago they seemed willing to
use them. So they have capabilities. There's no question.
And, you know, listen, here we are again talking about the possibility of a -- a further escalation in this conflict.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. This coming just days before the U.N. General Assembly gathers here --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: -- in New York next week as well.
Jim, I can already guess what you're going to be spending a great deal of time on your --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: -- show covering.
Thank you so much for taking the time to join us as well --
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: -- on this very important development.
And thank you so much for watching. That does it for this one hour of ONE WORLD. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. "AMANPOUR" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
