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One World with Zain Asher
Trump Picks Vaccine Skeptic RFK, Jr. For Top Health Post; Gaetz Faces A Rocky Road To The Attorney General Post; Trump's Team Skipping FBI Background Checks For Some Picks; Russian State T.V. Praises Trump's Gaetz, Gabbard Picks; South Africa Refusing To Help Illegal Miners Underground; Gaetz Praises One Of The World's Toughest Prisons; Mike Tyson Returns To Boxing To Fight Jake Paul; Aired 12:00-1:00p ET
Aired November 15, 2024 - 12:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:28]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Another day, another controversy. Trump's latest pick is a man who thinks vaccines are linked to autism. Spoiler
alert, they're not. ONE WORLD starts right now.
Make America healthy again. What we know about RFK Jr. and why his appointment is rattling the medical community.
Also ahead, deprived of food, water, and supplies. We'll bring you an update on the hundreds of South African miners that the government is still
refusing to help.
The slap heard around the world. Mike Tyson takes an early shot at Jake Paul ahead of their much anticipated rumble.
Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Zain is off today. You are watching ONE WORLD.
Well, Donald Trump's plan to put an outspoken conspiracy theorist and prominent anti-vaxxer in charge of America's health and well-being is the
latest in a line of provocative picks for his new administration.
The U.S. president-elect has selected Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to lead the Department of Health and Human Services. Kennedy is controversial not only
for falsely claiming vaccines can cause autism, but also for a series of bizarre events.
Now, the former independent presidential candidate is being investigated for allegedly decapitating a dead whale and taking it home two decades ago.
He also is admitted to dumping a dead bear in Central Park. Kennedy claims doctors found a dead worm in his brain years ago. And he denies once eating
a barbeque dog, clarifying that it was actually a goat.
Still, Trump had nothing but praise for Kennedy on Thursday night. But he also took a not-so-subtle jab.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I guess if you like health and if you like people that live a long time, it's the most
important position.
Look at the news reports. People like you, Bobby. Don't get too popular, Bobby.
We want you to come up with things and ideas and what you've been talking about for a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Let's go now to Steve Contorno who joins me now live from St. Petersburg, Florida.
Steve, I can't say he didn't warn us about this. I guess there had been speculation though that RFK Jr., who would face some hurdles in the
confirmation process, would have more of a health czar type of role that doesn't need to be Senate confirmed. But this is the actual position that
now the Senate is going to be faced with yet another controversial pick.
STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: That's right, Bianna. Donald Trump said during the campaign that Donald -- that if he wins, RFK would, quote, go
wild over healthcare. And that is certainly what he would have the power to do if he was the head of HHS.
It's just an agency with a massive, massive budget and a large scope of responsibilities, including the National Institute of Health, the CDC, as
well as the Medicare and Medicaid programs that millions and millions of Americans rely on for healthcare coverage in the United States.
And this -- so this is an incredibly consequential pick. It is one that already has been met with considerable resistance. And not just from
Democrats, who obviously are reflexively against many of Trump's picks, but also from some Republicans as well, and not just because of his past status
-- stances on vaccines or that long list litany of run-ins with animals that you just read off, but also because he has an incredibly progressive
track record.
In fact, up until just a few months ago, he was a registered Democrat before he tried to run against Trump and Biden as an independent. And I
think you are seeing that reflected in some of the Republican pushback. For example, Mike Pence, Trump's former vice president, just issued a statement
saying, quote, I believe the nomination of RFK Jr. to serve as secretary of HHS is an abrupt departure from the pro-life record of our administration
and should be deeply concerning to millions of pro-life Americans who have supported the Republican Party and are nominee for decades.
R.F.K. Jr. was staunchly pro-life throughout -- or excuse me, pro-choice throughout much of his political career and that is what Mike Pence is
opposed to there. And he has many other stances on the environment, on animal agriculture, on energy that go up against many aspects of the Trump
agenda and could cause some heartburn for Republicans if they don't -- if they when -- once they have to decide on his nomination.
[12:05:11]
GOLODRYGA: Yes. He began his career as an environmental lawyer, and Donald Trump had teased that he better not touch his stance on more drilling in
his next term. We'll see where this leads us.
Steve Contorno, thank you so much.
Well, while there is so much speculation and discussion over Donald Trump's picks, it begs the question, how many of them will actually be confirmed?
While Matt Gaetz is no stranger to Capitol Hill, he will still be grilled by the Senate.
And many Washington insiders say it will be a tough road to get that confirmation. That's because of the ethics and legal accusations against
the former Florida congressman. Some members of his own Republican party have been pretty blunt about Gaetz' chances of getting the job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Look, Gaetz won't get confirmed. Everybody knows that.
HASLINDA AMIN, BLOOMBERG ANCHOR: You say Gaetz will not be confirmed. Why bother with the nomination then?
MCCARTHY: You can talk to the president, but it's a good -- it's a good --
AMIN: How will you read it then?
MCCARTHY: It's a good deflection from others, but it also gives -- I'll let it stand with that.
But Gaetz couldn't win in a Republican Conference, so it doesn't matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Well, the status of the Gaetz ethics report is up in the air since he resigned from the House Wednesday. A meeting set for today on the
findings of the House investigation was canceled.
Lauren Fox joins us from U.S. Capitol with a closer look at the road ahead for Matt Gaetz.
Lauren, there is growing pressure for the House Ethics Committee investigation to be released, for this report to be released on sexual
misconduct. And yet, we're just hearing Speaker Johnson say, he doesn't think it should be released. So what's going on here?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That is reporting from our colleague Ali Main who caught up with the speaker and he told her that
he was hoping that Michael Guest and the Ethics Committee does not transfer the ethics report to the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Now the House Ethics Committee was expected to meet today to potentially discuss this report and yet, that meeting was cancelled. That means that
all eyes have been on the Senate Judiciary Committee.
They officially requested that the House Ethics Committee transfer the report to them as part of their official vetting process for the attorney
general nomination. But now, you have the speaker saying that he does not want the House Ethics Committee to do that. So things are really at a
standstill in this moment as we wait to see whether the committee is going to get that information as part of their vetting process.
It's also important to point out that at the end of the year, starting on January 3rd, that committee will then be led by incoming chairman, Chuck
Grassley, a Republican. So the committee is transferring from democratic power to Republican power.
And I was pressing Chuck Grassley yesterday on whether he wanted this ethics report if he's going to push for it. Right now, the Democrats are
the ones pushing for it. And he was non-committal.
So I think it really remains to be seen whether this report sees the light of day or not. Bianna?
GOLODRYGA: All right. Lauren Fox at the Capitol for us. Thank you so much.
Despite the controversy surrounding some of Donald Trump's cabinet picks, we're learning they may not be getting thoroughly vetted, at least not in
the traditional way.
People close to the transition planning say the team is bypassing FBI background checks for some of the cabinet selections and using private
companies to conduct investigations into potential candidates.
CNN's Zachary Cohen joins me now live from Washington with more on this.
Why would they bypass the traditional FBI route and go with private contractors here, Zach?
ZACHARY COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bianna. It's certainly an unconventional way of vetting the people that they want to put in these top
administration jobs. And, look, this is a protocol, the FBI background checks, that's been in place for decades. It's really about making sure
that there are no unknown foreign ties or other potential national security issues related to these people that are going to assume these jobs that
wield immense power within the U.S. government.
And look, at a time when Donald Trump is picking some very controversial candidates for jobs like attorney general, as we were just talking about,
jobs like the Director of National Intelligence, we're learning that the Trump transition team is bypassing that formal traditional FBI background
check process, which is really prompting some criticism from both Democrats and Republicans who we've heard today even say that the only reason you
skip that background check process is if you believe your candidate can't pass a background check. So raising concerns about what the lack of
background check and vetting means for the caliber of these nominees.
But, look, Donald Trump, his disdain and his skepticism of the U.S. intelligence community and of the FBI has been very well documented. And he
has privately told people, questioned whether or not law enforcement needs to conduct background checks on his cabinet nominees. That's something that
obviously members of his own party strongly disagree with.
And look, this could be also -- sources have said that this could be a way to try to smooth out the confirmation process. Background checks,
obviously, can potentially unearth politically damaging information, things that could complicate what are already shaping up to be very complicated
confirmation fights in the U.S. Senate.
[12:10:13]
So look, it's not for everybody, the background checks. We do expect Donald Trump could change his mind and submit some names, all the names, to the
FBI for vetting. But as of now, there's been no action on that from the Trump transition.
GOLODRYGA: Already another norm process broken. Zachary Cohen, thank you so much.
Well, while many of Donald Trump's picks for his new administration are drawing criticism in the U.S., some are getting a more favorable reaction
in Russian state media. Our Fred Pleitgen has more from Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kremlin- controlled T.V. praising some of President-Elect Trump's cabinet
picks, calling designated attorney general Matt Gaetz, quote, a Trump loyalist, and also speaking favorably about Trump's pick for Director of
National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard for repeatedly parroting Kremlin talking points on the war in Ukraine.
She, from day one, clarified the reason for Russia's special operation in Ukraine, the anchor says, criticizing the actions of the Biden
administration.
Gabbard's words in 2022 right after Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine caused even panelists on Russian state T.V. to cynically ask if she's a
Kremlin agent.
Yes, the host said, without providing any evidence.
But the Russians ripping into designated secretary of defense Pete Hegseth and national security advisor Mike Waltz.
Waltz, at the Republican Convention, proposed deploying more American drones in the Black Sea and bragged about how Trump threatened to bomb as
he put it, Putin's Kremlin. The anchor says, that is what's called a Russophobic dream team or the American dream team.
PLEITGEN: Of course, there's a lot of discussion here in Russia about the new Trump administration that's taking shape and what some of the picks
could mean for relations with Russia, especially when it comes to possibly ending the war in Ukraine.
(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) (TEXT ON SCREEN)
PLEITGEN: Donald Trump said that he definitely wants to resolve the conflict in Ukraine. Do you think this is possible through talks, through
military action, what do you think?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know how Donald Trump can resolve this. But I would really like this to be resolved as soon as possible, and resolve din
the most peaceful way possible, that is, through negotiations and not through the actions that are happening now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, there's still a bit of ambition here with those in power. And I don't know if Trump will stick to his line. But I
hope there will be a good agreement between Russia and Ukraine.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Russian President Vladimir Putin has said, he's willing to talk to Donald Trump even before Trump takes office.
The Russians praising some of the president-elect's appointments as officials who could help normalize relations with Moscow.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Fred Pleitgen for that report.
Stakes in all of this is U.S. national security. Let's get some perspective on that from CNN national security analyst, Beth Sanner. Beth, it is good
to see you.
And I do want to ask you about some breaking news that "New York Times" reporting that kremlins seems to be confirming that German Chancellor Olaf
Scholz and President Vladimir Putin spoke by phone for an hour.
Today, it appears to have been the first phone call between President Putin and a leader of a large Western country in two years.
We're already hearing President Zelenskyy respond to this. He called it opening Pandora's Box and said that now he believes other leaders will
follow and that the best way to isolate Vladimir Putin is not to have these types of conversations.
What does that suggest to you, the timing of this, following the election here in the United States? And what does that mean for Ukraine?
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I actually think that what's going on with Scholz is much more about domestic German politics and then
really being a reaction to President Trump.
I would note that there's going to be a meeting in Poland of the foreign ministers of Ukraine, Germany, Italy, U.K. and France coming up where they
will be coordinating. The United States will not be there, but coordinating together about the implications of the Trump election and what's next for
Ukraine and Europeans' role in that.
So I guess, you know, let's see. But, you know, Scholz is a dead man walking in some ways, and not to be too direct about that, sorry. But, you
know, he's up for reelection, so.
GOLODRYGA: Has fallen apart and they're expecting new elections come February, though Germany has always been one of the largest suppliers of
aid for Ukraine.
And so the question is, what happens to other European countries if, in fact, Donald Trump follows through on his pledge not only to end this war
on day one, but also to greatly pull back some of U.S. --
[12:15:12]
SANNER: Right.
GOLODRYGA: -- assistance in financial aid and military aid.
I do want to tell you some of the conversation points, at least from Vladimir Putin during this conversation. And that was that he said, that
any peace deal in Ukraine must be based on new territorial realities and most importantly address the root causes of this conflict.
There does seem to be more and more speculation about what a Trump policy would look like, and that could very well lead to Ukraine being forced to
give up a significant portion of the land that Russia has now conquered in this war.
And then in return for that, get some sort of security guarantees not on the table would be NATO membership anytime soon. Is that something that you
think Ukraine should be able to accept?
SANNER: Well, you know, I don't think any of us should speak for Ukraine, but I do think that we are at a point in the war where the trajectory is
rather negative in terms of Ukraine's position.
It's difficult for them to go to the negotiating table right now. And Russia has been just reinforcing its maximalist goals and been very clear
that they are not going to back down on anything.
So that will put President Trump in a position of either, you know, appeasing Russia and accepting what they are proposing, which is basically
a complete victory for Russia if Ukraine is not given some kind of security guarantees.
And I would point out something that, you know, President Trump said about the Middle East. He said, we've got to address, you know, what is going on
here and prevent things from recurring in 10 years.
Well, it's the same for Ukraine. You can't agree to Russia's maximalist positions and expect that there will be no further aggression that we will
have to deal with down the road. And so I also think that President Trump does not want to go down as, you know, the greatest appeaser of Russian
aggression in history.
So I think things are going to be more complicated and that it's not going to be as straightforward agreeing with everything Russia says and forcing
Ukraine to sign away its life. We'll see but.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And much more complicated -- much more complicated for European and NATO allies, many of whom, you know, some of whom share a
border with Russia as well --
SANNER: Exactly.
GOLODRYGA: -- to be able to swallow this type of settlement.
Let me ask you about more domestic news here in some of the cabinet picks that we've seen, just a slew of them, come out this week alone.
Specifically, the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, a current Fox News host. He's a decorated war veteran and an Ivy League graduate, but has never run
any organization, much less the largest and arguably most important bureaucracy in the world. Your thoughts on him as secretary of defense and
also on Tulsi Gabbard at DNI.
SANNER: You know, look, I think a couple things come to mind. One is that, you know, putting people in place that have no experience in running these
massive bureaucracies is not necessarily the best path for getting progress.
Like, if you want to do strategic change, you need two things. You need people who know how to manipulate the bureaucracy, know where all the
things are hidden, and get things done, understand process. And you also need everybody rowing in the same direction.
The picks, so far, don't have either of those two things. And so I think that there may be some buyer's remorse down the road. I mean, you can be
the smartest person in the world, but if you don't understand how the Pentagon works, then it will eat you for lunch.
So also, you know, who is picked as deputy and all these other positions will be absolutely key.
I also think that the focus on some of these culture things, you know, great, if that's what is important to you. But, look, I am a practical
former intelligence officer, and I think we have huge things that need to be done at the Pentagon.
And I would hate for people to be distracted by these kind of, you know, culture war type things, rather at the expense of getting at some core
issues about U.S. competitiveness and the defense industrial base. And that takes a lot of knowledge that I'm not sure this candidate brings to the
table.
GOLODRYGA: And quickly, Tulsi Gabbard at DNI. I mean, is this something that you are comfortable with, given her past positions?
SANNER: Not on my bingo card. I am shocked about her selection. No experience, whatsoever.
[12:20:01]
I will point to one question that I think will be posed to her during confirmation hearings, if there are confirmation hearings, and that is in
2020 when she cosponsored a bill with Matt Gaetz that would take criminal prosecution away against Edward Snowden.
No criminal prosecution for Edward Snowden, who is, you know, the biggest leaker of sensitive classified information that was very consequential.
The DNI is supposed to protect national security and classified information. That's in the statute as well as being in common sense. So
that's a good question to pose. And we don't know really, you know, what her goals will be.
GOLODRYGA: Well, you connecting Tulsi Gabbard to Matt Gaetz was also not on my bingo card, but there you did it for us.
Beth Sanner, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate the time.
SANNER: Good to see you.
GOLODRYGA: You too.
Still to come for us, a tense wait as people stand by for word of loved ones in South African mines where food and water are running out.
And later.
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Like gas through this hole. They could be in here for 15 days, potentially.
CNN's David Culver has an exclusive look inside a prison created deliberately to house, quote, the worst of the worst. It's a place that's
being praised by Donald Trump's pick for U.S. attorney general.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: In South Africa, the families of hundreds of illegal miners are awaiting for news of their loved ones after police cut off the miners'
access to vital supplies. This comes as part of a government crackdown on illegal mining.
The miners are underground in an abandoned gold mine in the northwest province. They're believed to be running out of food and water.
CNN's Victoria Rubadiri joins me now live from Nairobi, Kenya. Victoria, what more are we learning today?
VICTORIA RUBADIRI, CNN CORRESPONDENT, CONNECTING AFRICA: Well, in terms of the latest, Bianna, it's the turn of events that we didn't see coming
today. Government officials, police and mine rescue experts met today to come up with a plan on how to get the miners out.
Now, the minister of police, who had been touring that old mining town for most of the day, said that he's looking to have some positive news by the
end of the week. He didn't give any specific timelines in terms of when that rescue operation would take place.
[12:25:07]
But it's a complete change of tune from the government that up until this point had said it would not offer any help, essentially giving the illegal
miners who have been underground for weeks now two options to either remain underground and risk death or surface and get arrested.
Of course, many of them are fearing arrest and have decided to remain underground. However, there are most of them who succumbed to the pressure,
at least in terms of the numbers today. Police say over 1,100 of them have managed to surface, many of them weak and sickly.
But what is a paramount for the government is to get those miners out as quickly and as safely as possible.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Paramount for their families as well. Victoria Rubadiri, thank you so much.
Well, hopes are increasing for a ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon. Sources in Lebanon tell CNN that Hezbollah is considering a new
U.S.-Israeli proposal.
A Lebanese official says talks have been spearheaded by Washington's special envoy, Amos Hochstein, and that President-elect Donald Trump has
endorsed the negotiations.
For now, though, Israel is keeping up its attacks, hitting Beirut suburbs for a fourth day in a row. Israel says it's targeting Hezbollah
infrastructure.
Elsewhere in Lebanon, in the historic city of Baalbek, rescue teams are digging through the rubble after an Israeli strike leveled a civil defense
headquarters. Lebanese authorities say, at least 43 people were killed across Lebanon on Thursday.
And we'll be right back with more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
Well, President-elect Donald Trump made a number of big promises while he was out on the campaign trail, including these.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: For those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution.
[12:30:08]
We're going to put the tariffs on your products coming in from China.
When I get to office, we are going to not charge taxes on tips.
Were' going to take care of Israel and they know that.
I will have the horrible war between Russia and Ukraine totally settled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Well, now he's making good on his vows to shake up the Washington establishment. His latest controversial cabinet pick, Robert F.
Kennedy, Jr., to head up Health and Human Services.
For years, Kennedy had promoted debunked anti-vaccine claims and conspiracy theories. So what else is in store?
Let's talk more about this, time now for The Exchange. Joining me is Peter Savodnik, a senior editor at "The Free Press." He published a piece right
after the election entitled Joe --- Oh, We Blew It, Joe. And that's obviously a play on We Did It, Joe. The conversation between Vice President
Harris and Joe Biden after his victory in 2020.
Peter Savodnik, welcome back to the program. I can't believe it's almost been a week since we last spoke, and what a week it had been.
And one thing that stood out to me from what you had said is that, despite Donald Trump's mandate in this election, there was no particular Republican
agenda mandate from voters. So I'm wondering how to digest that point and make sense of some of these cabinet picks, because on the one hand, a lot
of their names have been touted throughout the campaign.
On the other, that there's real concern even within the Republican establishment and among voters who are saying, listen, this isn't what I
voted for. I wanted cheaper prices. I wanted a crackdown on waste and abuse and all of that, but not this.
PETER SAVODNIK, SENIOR EDITOR, THE FREE PRESS: Yes. There should be concern.
What we're seeing is the effects, the results of a guardrail-less GOP, where there is this kind of, you know, wide-ranging discourse, this
appetite for all kinds of ideas and people and voices and vantage points that in a more kind of established or a more conventional party wouldn't
happen.
And I think, you know, on the one hand, that makes for a very honest and kind of robust exchange of ideas at the same time. Excuse me. It also makes
room then for a lot of just nuttiness and stuff that doesn't belong in the kind of heart of the conversation. So I think, you know, there's this
tension. And RFK Jr., you know, being now elevated to this level is emblematic of that.
GOLODRYGA: And, obviously, a president is entitled to announce or appoint people that he believes best would serve his political agenda and policies.
But some of the names being thrown out, Matt Gaetz as attorney general.
SAVODNIK: Right.
GOLODRYGA: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. at HHS. I mean, it really begs the question, what do they bring to the job? And are they serving him as
loyalist? Or are they serving the American public?
SAVODNIK: Yes. I mean, I think, you know, it's as if Donald Trump can't help himself, right? Like the Republicans ran very effectively against
lawfare, against the Democrats using justice, using the criminal system, the criminal justice system, excuse me, to further political aims.
And the right way then to kind of cash in on that, so to speak, politically, is not then to do the very same thing, which is exactly what
Gaetz is going to do or is expected to do. He is a lackey, a puppet who I think can be counted on to do exactly what Donald Trump wants him to do.
And I think -- I think Trump still has a hard time understanding that the Justice Department is not the White House's, you know, personal, you know,
attorney. It is the -- right, it's the -- it's the highest, you know, sort of like, you know, legal force institution in the land.
And -- or lawyer, I said prosecutor in the land. And so it sits -- it sits aside the White House. But, you know, this remains, I think, a bit
confusing to the president.
GOLODRYGA: I remember listening to you over the summer, especially your reporting at the Republican National Convention, and you said Democrats
would have done themselves a favor if they had sort of planted themselves as operatives there, to listen to what some of those who are attending, the
delegates were talking about the issues that they were focused on, what concerned them most, what they felt that President Biden wasn't doing for
them.
Does any of what we've -- I mean, listen, it's only been a week-and-a-half, but just in what we've seen in the past week. Does that suggest to you that
Donald Trump and those around him are listening to some of those same people you spoke with?
SAVODNIK: Yes. I mean, Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do. There's no -- there's no mystery about any of this.
[12:35:59]
I think a lot of the shock that we hear from Democrats or from the media is misplaced. So in that respect, you know, Trump has been very transparent.
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
SAVODNIK: I think, again, though, like the problem with the Republicans now is that they can't help themselves. So they won on this, you know, platform
of authenticity. And I think -- I think they were -- they have been, they remain very kind of true to their word.
But there needs to be. I think we don't want to dispense altogether with, you know, again, guardrails or a way to discern between or distinguish
between sort of like what's acceptable or what's unacceptable.
We don't want to have conversations, I think, about like whether fluoride should be in the water. But we do want to have questions about, you know,
how food is produced in America. So there's a balance. And I don't know that the -- that the GOP has yet struck that balance.
GOLODRYGA: You had written in your piece, We Blew It, Joe, that the only way out of this cul-de-sac for Democrats and sort of the lessons learned
here, as they're trying to focus on where they missed out on a significant portion of the electorate, is to once again go back and return to the same
Americans that you write, they had a habit of disparaging.
Explain to us what that means.
SAVODNIK: Right. So I think, you know, for a long time, the Democratic Party was the -- of the working class. And in 1968, we go way, way back
that an old FDR coalition was blown apart by the Vietnam War and all the kind of various social pressures working on the left.
Bill Clinton, in 1992, reassembled it. And it's always had a kind of like, there's been this sort of, you know, kind of working class sort of idea
about the Democrats since then, but it hasn't really been the heart of the party. It hasn't been sort of their raison detre.
And what's taken over in its place has been this, you know, identity politics, this obsession with immutable traits. And that has been
extraordinarily sort of deleterious for the party's political fortunes.
And so if they want to become a national party again, where we would have real serious political competition and we don't have this map where there's
like these kind of vast seas of like red that like spread across the country and you actually want to have like real political competition in
every state, Democrats are going to have to respond to, you know, the kind of right-wing populist agenda with a left-wing populist agenda.
And there are all kinds of ways of imagining that. And it doesn't have to be the Bernie Sanders left. It might be more market-oriented or whatever.
But it's got to be an agenda that addresses the questions and concerns, the yearnings of countless voters who have been saying for a long time now, we
are sick and tired of America declining inexorably.
We want -- we want people in Washington. We want the people in charge to lead us out of the morass.
And until Democrats actually address that and start talking about the same things that Republicans are talking about, I think they're going to --
they're going to be on the margins.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, from Democrats, you know, we told you so where you got what you deserved. It's not going to get them reelected most likely. And
Republicans, perhaps, you know, answering these calls with someone like Matt Gaetz or Robert F. Kennedy may also not be the solution either.
It is very early.
SAVODNIK: Right. Right.
GOLODRYGA: This administration has not started, but it is starting to form. And obviously great to talk to you, Peter Savodnik, because you've got your
pulse on voters out there.
SAVODNIK: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: So appreciate the time.
SAVODNIK: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: And still to come for us, Donald Trump's pick for U.S. Attorney General Matt Gaetz has praised a notorious prison in El Salvador as a model
for America.
CNN has exclusive access to that facility known for housing the worst of the worst.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CULVER: It's been equated to seven football stadiums. It's almost multiple prisons within the prison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[12:40:42]
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's OK. It's OK. Everybody all right? Help her.
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GOLODRYGA: Just terrifying moments 9,000 meters up, as passengers there reacted to severe turbulence aboard a Scandinavian Airlines flight. The
airline says Miami bound flight SK957 was forced to return to Europe after encountering extreme turbulence over Greenland on Thursday.
The airline says no one was badly injured. Passenger Sammy Solstead, who took the video you're seeing, tell CNN that he feels lucky to be alive.
It's frightening.
Well, we are taking a closer look at President-elect Donald Trump's pick for U.S. attorney general, Matt Gaetz. If he's confirmed by the Senate, one
of his major duties would be to oversee the U.S. prison system.
CNN is learning more about Gaetz' possible mindset on prisons. Back in July, he took a tour of one of the world's toughest prisons and suggested
that it should be a model for the U.S. This prison is where El Salvador keeps the, quote, worst of the worst, murderers, rapists and gang members,
including some who were deported from the United States.
El Salvador's president released a video of some of Gaetz' comments after visiting the facility.
MATT GAETZ, THEN-U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: There's a lot more discipline in this prison than we see in a lot of the prisons in the United States. This
is the solution.
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GOLODRYGA: CNN is the first major U.S. news organization to gain access to the prison system that Gaetz has been praising.
Our David Culver takes you inside for this exclusive report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER: All right. I'm going to go in here.
CULVER (voice-over): Even as I'm stepping through these doors, I don't fully grasp what we're about to walk into.
Suddenly, you're hit with the intense gaze of dozens locking on to you.
These men described as the worst of the worst, tattooed with reminders of El Salvador's dark past. It's tense and uncomfortable. But here, officials
say comfort isn't meant to exist.
CULVER: There's no mattresses. There's no sheets. You've got a toilet over here for them to go to the bathroom. You've got this basin here that they
use to bathe themselves. And then you can see there there's a barrel of water that they can drink from.
CULVER (voice-over): This is a rare look inside El Salvador's terrorism confinement center known as CECOT.
CULVER: And he says there's always somebody standing here in front of the cells. And then if you look up, there's another corridor with more security
personnel. 24/7 light.
CULVER (voice-over): The prison sits like an isolated fortress nestled in mountainous terrain about an hour and a half drive from the capital. Even
with government officials on board with us, we're stopped a mile out.
CULVER: OK. He's going to inspect bags now too. OK. We're clear to get back in.
CULVER (voice-over): Only to hit another checkpoint. Approaching the main gate, our cell signals vanish.
CULVER: They want to do a full search on us before we enter.
CULVER (voice-over): Once cleared, we tour the vast campus.
CULVER: It's been equated to seven football stadiums. It's almost multiple prisons within the prison. You can see off to the distance, there's three
different rings as they describe. The far end, you have one that's nine meters high of concrete, and then above that, three meters of electrified
fencing.
[12:45:12]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At 15,000 volts.
CULVER: Fifteen thousand volts.
CULVER (voice-over): More than a thousand security personnel, guards, police, and military are stationed on site. Inmates are assigned to one of
eight sectors.
CULVER: The director tells me the inmates, once they're inside one of these sectors, they never leave. Everything is done within, including doctors, as
well as legal visits or court hearings.
CULVER (voice-over): Each sector holds more than two dozen large cells.
CULVER: Roughly 80 inmates per cell, but it can fluctuate.
CULVER (voice-over): Most bear the markings of the gangs that held this nation hostage for decades, committing brutal acts of violence.
MARVIN VASQUEZ, PRISONER: You got to kill people. You got to rob. You got to do what you got to do to survive.
CULVER: You have to do those things.
VASQUEZ: Yes, you got to do that.
CULVER (voice-over): We meet 41-year-old Marvin Vazquez, shackled and heavily guarded.
CULVER: What gang were you part of?
VASQUEZ: MS-13.
CULVER: And do you have any gang affiliations?
VASQUEZ: Yes. I'm tattooed up.
CULVER: What is this?
VASQUEZ: Crazy criminal. Say crazy criminal. Yes, I made this click in 2011.
CULVER: You made the click?
VASQUEZ: Yes.
CULVER: You were a gang leader?
VASQUEZ: Yes.
CULVER: What is it like to live here?
VASQUEZ: It's probably not a hotel five-star, but they give you the three times the food. They give you some programs. You go to -- you got to do
exercise. Some church or religion programs too.
CULVER: But that's limited to just 30 minutes a day. The other 23 and a half hours, they're kept inside and locked up.
CULVER (voice-over): For inmates who get violent with other prisoners or guards --
CULVER: They're going to close the door. I just want to get a sense of -- wow.
CULVER (voice-over): Solitary confinement awaits.
CULVER: The only light you get is through this hole. They can be in here for 15 days, potentially.
All right. I'm ready to get out.
The director brought up that a lot of folks will raise concerns from a human rights perspective and an abuse of human rights, that he's calm
hearing that because he sees it day to day, the process they go through to maintain, as he sees it, proper punishment.
CULVER (voice-over): While you're cut off from society here, whispers of life on the outside make their way in.
VASQUEZ: I've heard about it, that it's a new El Salvador. It looks different.
CULVER (voice-over): That new El Salvador has emerged under President Nayib Bukele, who took office in 2019 and declared a controversial state of
emergency more than two years ago. It sparked an aggressive crackdown on crime. We see that firsthand as some 2,500 police and soldiers deploy into
one neighborhood.
CULVER: It's going to go on through the night for however long it takes for them to root out any suspected criminal elements.
CULVER (voice-over): Critics argue Bukele's strategy has given him far- reaching power to suppress dissent and silence any opposition.
Late last week, as the U.S. State Department lowered its travel advisory for El Salvador, citing a significant reduction in crime, it also warned
that Bukele's emergency measures allow authorities to arrest anyone suspected of gang activity and suspends constitutional rights.
And yet, most we meet seem unfazed by the added show of force.
CULVER: I asked him, I said, how do you feel with all these soldiers? I mean, there's a couple of dozens just even right outside his door. And he
said, no, I feel safe.
CULVER (voice-over): El Salvador now has one of the world's highest incarceration rates. The most hardened criminals brought the CECOT, where
inside a life sentence awaits.
VASQUEZ: We did bad things. We pay it the rough way, doing time.
CULVER (voice-over): And yet for many on the outside, the prison now a symbol of newfound freedom. The new El Salvador as they see it.
CULVER: Now you've got other Latin American countries that are building what some are considering to be Bukele-style prisons, namely Ecuador and
Honduras.
No question it's controversial. Some think it is far too extreme. But when you speak to the folks on the ground in El Salvador, and we've made
multiple trips there, even those who disagree with Bukele's tactics will tell you they're incredibly happy with the outcome. They feel far safer,
safer than they've ever felt before in their own country.
Many of them will say that as extreme as those tactics are, they were necessary to eradicate the gangs that really took control of the country
for so many years.
David Culver, CNN, West Palm Beach, Florida.
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[12:50:31]
GOLODRYGA: Boxer, Mike Tyson, is coming out of retirement to fight Jake Paul. Tyson, who is more than twice Paul's age, will step back into the
ring at age 58, some 19 years after his last bout.
The action goes down tonight in Texas and will be shown on Netflix. CNN's Andy Scholes is following the story for us.
Andy, not only the fact that he's twice his age, I mean --
ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS REPORTER: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: -- is this real? What can we expect to see tonight?
SCHOLES: Well, Bianna, you know, this is actually a real sanctioned fight, but I'm pretty excited about it. But you have to go into these kind of
fights with very, very low expectations for what you're going to see.
Because the last time we saw Mike Tyson in the ring, it was about 20 years ago. And back then, he didn't look good. So we'll see what we get tonight.
They had the weigh-in yesterday. And in the weigh-in, Mike Tyson, he ran right up to Jake Paul and slapped him. And the slap that happened, it was
about as real as when Mike Tyson punched Alan in "Hangover" one. They're just trying to drop off entertainment for the fight.
But still, Jake Paul, he acted like he was pretty mad. This is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE PAUL, BOXER AND ACTOR: I didn't even feel it. He's angry. He's an angry little elf. Mike Tyson, I thought that was a cute slap, buddy, but
tomorrow you're going to knock the (BLEEP) out. I'm (BLEEP) him up, Ariel. It's personal now. It's personal now.
ARIEL HELWANI, SPORTS JOURNALIST: Mike, can I ask? The world is excited to see you one last time, perhaps. Can you just tell us the emotions, the
thoughts that are going through your mind right now?
MIKE TYSON, AMERICAN PROFESSIONAL BOXER: Talking's over.
HELWANI: Why did you -- why did you push him there? All right. That's it. That's it for Mike Tyson.
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SCHOLES: So, yes. There you go. That's what the fighters had to say ahead of this one.
Now, like I said, this is a real sanctioned fight, but it's not going to be like a normal heavyweight bout. It's only going to be eight rounds. And
those rounds are going to be two minutes, not three minutes. They're going to try to keep Mike Tyson to where he doesn't get exhausted at 58 years
old.
They're also going to be using 14-ounce gloves, not the normal 10-ounce gloves, hoping that, you know, no one really gets seriously hurt here,
Bianna.
But like I said, Tyson, he's 58 years old. This is not the Mike Tyson that, you know, I grew up with, where he was knocking people out in the first
round, where, you know, where he was just a phenomenon.
You know, when we saw him 20 years ago, I mean, he -- back then he was a shell of himself. He lost three of his last four fights. And, you know,
this fight actually got moved from July to now because he had a really serious ulcer. He said he lost 26 pounds. He was spitting up blood. So, you
know, on top of him being old, he's coming off of that.
[12:55:06]
Like I said, enter this with very low expectations. I'm going to watch because I want to see what happens like everybody else. But, you know, I
don't think we should expect a really good fight here.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. You can fill me in on what happened. The last time I watched Tyson was -- it resulted in the bite scene around the world.
SCHOLES: In 1997, yes, Holyfield.
GOLODRYGA: You remember that one?
SCHOLES: Yes. Oh, yes.
GOLODRYGA: Andy Scholes, thanks for doing the job tomorrow night watching this for us. I really appreciate it. It's good to see you, my friend.
And before we go, I want to bring you fresh video from Paris. Quite a story shift here. This was the scene just moments ago. A statue of the Virgin
Mary and child being paraded through the city streets to make its triumphant return to Notre Dame.
The cathedral is preparing to reopen to the public in early December, five years after a devastating fire. Quite a site.
Well, that does it for this Hour of ONE WORLD. Thanks so much for watching. I'm Bianna Golodryga. Don't go anywhere. I'll be right back with
"AMANPOUR."
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