Return to Transcripts main page
One World with Zain Asher
South Korean Lawmakers Vote To Block Martial Law; South Korean Troops Have Withdrawn From The Parliament; South Korea In Chaos; Biden: I'm Just Getting Briefed On South Korea Situation; Lawmakers In The National Assembly Have Voted To Block A Surprise Martial Law Decree Announced By The President, Calling It Invalid; Aired 12-1p ET
Aired December 03, 2024 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:27]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Zain Asher. Welcome to ONE WORLD.
We want to begin for you in South Korea, and our breaking news that President Yoon has declared martial law. That announcement came in a late
night TV address to the nation.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. President Yoon accused the main South Korean opposition party of sympathizing with the North. He said his declaration was necessary
to protect the country from what he called the danger of North Korean communist forces.
ASHER: Yes. We just take a look at this live pictures from outside parliament in Seoul. What we're seeing here is supporters of South Korea's
opposition party gathering to protest the president's declaration.
Last hour, lawmakers voted to block the decree. By law, the president is required to comply with their votes. But it's still not clear what exactly
-- what sort of effect it's going to have, what is actually going to happen next.
I want to bring in CNN's Will Ripley who is tracking this story for us from Taiwan. So, Will, when you think about history here, for the South Korean
people, the term martial law conjures up a lot of trauma because you think about what happened in 1980 when martial law was decreed to sort of quash a
pro-democracy uprising back then.
It has been quite a 24 hours for the people of South Korea. Just walk us through what is happening on the ground right now and what happens next.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Quite a couple of hours. I mean this has -- this has been unfolding really just in the very
late night hours of Tuesday here and now we're in the early hours of Wednesday in this region.
And you have a situation where the future of the current administration is very much in question. Because what President Yoon has done, he has grown
so frustrated with his powerful opposition that is blocking his every move in parliament, impeaching his cabinet ministers by more than a dozen,
threatening to call for the president himself's impeachment, bringing up scandals even about the president's family.
At the same time, his approval ratings are abysmal. He hasn't been able to even get a budget through. The opposition's hacked billions of dollars off
of his budget. So they're impeaching everyone. They're blocking his every move.
He's grown incredibly paranoid. Journalists, colleagues of mine that are -- that are based in Seoul have been -- have been telling me that essentially
he believes, he sincerely believes that pro-North Korean elements have infiltrated the government and particularly infiltrated his opposition and
that they are determined to sow seeds of political unrest, and therefore, this martial law is sort of a Hail Mary if you want to use an American
football term to take back control and try to rebuild what President Yoon sees as a broken government.
The problem is that the majority of people in South Korea may not agree with him and may believe that the president himself is the one who is
broken at the moment.
So now the question here really falls down to now that parliament has voted to overturn this martial law, does President Yoon have the support of the
military to keep this going, to disregard the vote?
You know, theoretically, his cabinet actually has to rubber stamp this vote, otherwise, they have a stalemate.
So at this stage, even though at the moment our reporter on the ground there, Mike Valerio, has described the scene that well very active, very
much active at this moment, seems to be somewhat more calm than it was maybe an hour or two hours ago.
There's still really no clarity about the path forward for South Korea. And I have to tell you, as I'm sitting here, I'm thinking North Korea and Kim
Jong Un and his sister Kim Yo Jong, who have just been blasting President Yoon ever since even the beginning of this year, while at the same time
praising his predecessor, President Moon, who was a proponent of engaging with North Korea.
This is where this whole President Yoon says that, you know, his opposition, you know, has been infiltrated by North Korea, because the
previous ruling party -- you know, the previous president, as you know, engaged in a lot of diplomacy with North Korea, with Kim Jong Un, with
former President Donald Trump.
And then this new president, President Yoon, has taken a completely opposite approach. He wants to bolster the nation's weapons production.
They want to -- they believe that there's an imminent threat from North Korea.
[12:05:09]
Never mind the fact that North Korea has actually been sending some of its troops to Russia and to the Kursk Region of Russia, right on the front
lines there of Ukraine.
You know, from President Yoon's perspective, that's a sign that Kim Jong Un is giving his troops combat experience and potentially preparing them for
something to happen on the Korean Peninsula.
So he really does view the North as a clear and present and imminent threat.
But the political opposition, and a lot of people in South Korea think that his hardline stance is a little too hardline and may actually be making the
situation worse, provoking the North, and now to kind of call in, you know, basically accuse his opposition of being infiltrated by North Korea and use
that as a pretense to declare the first martial law in South Korea in something like 40 years.
Anybody under 40 has never lived this, but it certainly brings back a lot of bad memories for those who did live under authoritarian rule in South
Korea in the past that now all of a sudden feels like it could be repeating itself in some new form.
Of course, at this stage, it's way too early to know where this thing goes, even in the next few hours.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, no doubt. It's clearly shaken the entire country as we're looking at an empty parliament just hours after parliament voted to
overturn the martial law rule by a simple majority.
If we can get the images outside of parliament there at Seoul, reminding viewers it's 2:00 in the morning. And you see the massive crowds. Oh, we
were looking at images earlier.
There are images of people gathering outside of parliament in support now of what appears to be some calming measures taken by parliament again in
overturning that martial law.
You mentioned President Moon, President Yoon's predecessor. President Yoon did serve as prosecutor general in that -- in that government for two
years.
Will, he's not a political novice. He may be paranoid about the direction the country is headed in and threats from the North Koreans. But the timing
of this all, to do this in the middle of the night, where he is deeply unpopular, even within his own party, the head of his party, then saying
that this is not something that they support.
What do you make of this and him having to know that this would be the ultimate result?
RIPLEY: You do make a very good point. President Yoon, as a former prosecutor, he knows the law. He knows the rules. And members of his -- not
all members of his inner circle were privy to this very unexpected late- night announcement.
I mean, had you told me three hours ago that the story I was working on all day today here about Kim Jong Un and Vladimir Putin and their cooperation,
that's what I thought we were going to be talking about. This came completely out of left field, stunning people inside and outside of South
Korea.
Now you mentioned President Yoon's predecessor, President Moon Jae-in. He actually tweeted at the beginning of this, or I should say posted on the X
platform. And I'll read you just a rough translation.
The tweet from former president Moon Jae-in said, roughly here, democracy in the Republic of Korea, that's the official name for South Korea, is in a
critical state. He says he hopes that the National Assembly will quickly step in and protect the democracy that is collapsing.
Now, this post was before the parliament vote, before people had to physically kind of wrangle their way into the parliament building to vote
to overturn this martial law.
Then President Moon's -- former President Moon's tweet went on to say, he also asks the people to unite in protecting and reviving democracy and to
give strength so that the National Assembly can function normally.
So that's from the former President Moon Jae-in, who engaged with Kim Jong Un, whose detente on the Korean Peninsula that he helped facilitate, sort
of collapsed after former President Trump walked out of summit talks in Hanoi, Vietnam.
Kim Jong Un has been emboldened in recent years to test a barrage of ballistic missiles, unfazed by Western sanctions at the United Nations led
largely by the United States.
Because essentially now what he's done over the last year, remember it was back in September of last year, Kim Jong Un traveled to Russia, he met with
Vladimir Putin, they signed in June a partnership agreement to deepen all aspects of cooperation between the two countries.
Just a matter of days ago, there was a shipment of 70 exotic animals from Moscow, from the Moscow zoo, to Pyongyang is a yet another symbol of
gratitude from Putin for the weapons that are being sent by North Korea, made in North Korea, and sent to the battlefields of Ukraine. Also,
reportedly about a million barrels of oil being sent from Russia to North Korea. White horses, two dozen of them.
[12:10:20]
So -- but what essentially is happening is that these two heavily sanctioned economies, North Korea and Russia, along with trading with from
China, and getting economic support from China, they found a way to get around these sanctions so that they still hurt, but they don't hurt nearly
as much as they did, which has Putin emboldened to continue his war in Ukraine. Kim Jong Un emboldened to build more weapons, send his troops to
Kursk Region right by Ukraine, potentially having them on the battlefield, certainly getting real-time intel about the North Korean weapons that
they're helping to supply to Putin's war. See how those weapons work. Get that combat experience.
Maybe, you know, kind of help bolster the Wagner Group, if you will, have a new set of potential fighters at Putin's disposal. And if the Ukraine
conflict were to end, you know, maybe move them to another hot spot that Russia cares about.
This is the -- this is the situation geopolitically that President Yoon sitting in Seoul is watching play out and has him clearly so paranoid and
concerned about the threat from North Korea, and what's been happening with Russia, that he decided to take this drastic action and take his entire
country, and indeed the world, and his key allies like the United States, by total surprise, by pulling a move like this late in the night.
When the sun rises in Seoul, it's anyone's guess who will be really in control and where this will be headed.
GOLODRYGA: Well, that raises a key question, Will. Quickly, it's been about three hours since we've heard and seen from President Yoon declaring on
national television. They're surprising the country and the world, declaring martial law.
Do we know where he is right now? Do we know his whereabouts?
RIPLEY: I don't have that information. I don't know. So I think there's probably a lot of rumors flying around about his location.
But all that we've seen, all that I've seen is what the rest of the world has seen was that -- was that address when the martial law was declared.
And his movements at this stage, unclear to me from my seat here in Taipei.
ASHER: All right. Will Ripley, live for us. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
All right. Officially, the Biden administration says it is monitoring the situation, but it's clear that they were, of course, caught off guard by
the surprising development.
President Biden is in Angola right now. This is the last thing that he thought that he'd be having to deal with.
We're joined now by Bruce Klingner. He's the former CIA's deputy division chief in Korea. Bruce, thank you so much for being with us.
It's hard to know, right, how this is going to play out, as our Will Ripley was just saying. It's just impossible. It's anyone's guess at this point in
time.
What we do know for sure is that President Yoon is extremely unpopular. We've been talking a lot on our air about his approval ratings. In fact,
there was a petition over the summer calling for his impeachment that gathered over one million signatures in South Korea in a matter of days.
A lot of people view him as corrupt. They view him as, you know, the architect of a lot of democratic backsliding in Korea and also a very sort
of hawkish policy and view towards the North. Some might even say that he is sort of stoking war with North Korea as well.
Just give us your take on who President Yoon is and just how he is viewed by the people of South Korea. Obviously, he's only been in office for just
over two years.
BRUCE KLINGNER, FORMER CIA DEPUTY DIVISION CHIEF FOR KOREA: Well, this is a shocking development, to say the least. I was in Seoul less than two weeks
ago meeting with senior officials. And there was no indication that this was coming or even that Yoon's frustration with the National Assembly would
rise to some level of action.
So Yoon has declared using a provision of the Constitution, martial law, but that has been reserved for war, armed conflict or national emergency,
none of which seem prevalent here.
There's no indication that it's a response to actions by North Korea, military provocations or threats. It does seem to be just domestic
politics. He's cited both unidentified forces covertly planning a coup, but also now more directly identifying the opposition party, which does have a
majority in the National Assembly, as paralyzing the government or being pro-North Korean.
But what he cites is that they push through a budget, as the majority party, they can. And also numerous impeachments against himself or his
cabinet members.
So it seems to be more a domestic political issue, which he is elevating to taking extra constitutional matters. So he is a conservative and he adopted
a more pragmatic or principled policy, in my view, towards North Korea, abandoning the more appeasing comments or appeasing policies of his
predecessor, offering concessions without getting anything in return.
[12:15:24]
So he has been a very stalwart U.S. ally, but certainly this action is something the U.S. cannot condone.
In the past, Washington was falsely accused of being involved in authoritarian actions by previous leaders.
At the same time, we have to remember that South Korea is a very critically important economic partner, a critically important security partner, not
only against the North Korean threat, but also the rising China threat.
GOLODRYGA: Bruce, now that we seem to see the parliament and both the president at loggerheads now at this point, we haven't heard from the
president in three hours since he's declared martial law parliament and voting overwhelmingly to block that martial law.
Is the country now in the throes of a constitutional crisis? And what concerns does that raise for you in terms of its foes trying to take
advantage of this moment, specifically North Korea?
KLINGNER: Well, the clause in the Constitution requires that the president comply if a majority of the National Assembly directs him or requests him
to lift martial art.
Initially, there were reports that there were military forces in the National Assembly preventing them from meeting. There was also in U.N.'s
martial law declaration that all political activities, including convening of National Assembly was prohibited.
So we're uncertain what action the legislature can take or whether Yoon would comply with it. So certainly we've had armored vehicles deployed on
the streets of Seoul, military forces and police forces to prevent demonstrations or the convening of the National Assembly.
So it certainly is a political crisis, a constitutional crisis right now within, you know, a very important partner of the United States. So we have
to be very vigilant that North Korea doesn't try to take advantage of this.
I don't think they will take military action. Certainly, it'll be a propaganda coup for them. They will point to the turmoil in South Korea.
But the U.S. is in a difficult situation of not condoning this, but also having to continue working with the leader of South Korea, whoever that may
be.
And I agree with the reporter that Yoon's days may be numbered. Certainly both the opposition and the ruling party leaders have criticized Yoon's
actions.
ASHER: Bruce, I just want to get you to expand on something that you touched on. I mean, this idea that a lot of people historically in South
Korea has -- have been suspicious of the U.S.' involvement in their politics because the U.S. in the past has been seen as supporting
authoritarianism, perhaps in the name of security as opposed to democracy.
Just walk us through, you know, having this level of political instability at a time like this with such an important strategic ally for the U.S. I
mean, what does that mean for the U.S.'s strategic interests in the region?
KLINGNER: Well, South Korea went through decades of authoritarian leaders, military coups, and the U.S. was working with our ally against the North
Korean threat while trying to induce democratization, which eventually came through in the 1980s, after a number of strong demonstrations and a lot of
strong actions against protesters and violation of human rights by the authoritarian leaders.
So, during the past 40 years, South Korea really has been a beacon of freedom and democracy in the Indo-Pacific, particularly when compared with
North Korea.
But now, by taking this action, Yoon has undermined his own legitimacy, has reversed decades of democratization by South Korea. And now has raised
major questions as to how the U.S. can deal with President Yoon, particularly in a time of our own political transition here with the
incoming Trump administration.
So, you know, while we were very concerned about rising tensions on the Korean Peninsula, given predominantly North Korean actions, Pyongyang's
growing relationship with Russia, not only enabling Russia to continue its invasion of Ukraine, but getting a lot of economic benefits, which allow it
to avoid sanctions, but also whether Russia was providing military technology to North Korea.
[12:20:01]
So at a time of growing concern about North Korea and China, we now have an uncertain, if not unreliable ally.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Bruce Klingner, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.
ASHER: Appreciate it. Thank you.
KLINGNER: Thank you.
ASHER: All right. Still to come, more of CNN's breaking news coverage of South Korea, where lawmakers have voted to block the martial law decree
announced by the country's president. We'll have more on this story after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right. Much more on our breaking news. The political chaos unfolding in the middle of the night in South Korea.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Lawmakers there have voted to block a martial law decree calling it invalid. President Yoon Suk Yeol made the declaration earlier
after accusing the main opposition party of sympathizing with the North. And he called it necessary to safeguard the country from what he said are
threats posed by North Korea's communist forces.
You can see here thousands of protesters gathering outside of Parliament. Remind you, it's after 2:00 in the morning. Local time there.
And according to Yonhap News Agency, the decree bans all political and parliamentary activities and allows arrests without a warrant.
Moments ago, while giving a speech in Luanda, Angola, President Biden was asked about the situation in South Korea, and he said, a very short
response, I'm just getting briefed.
CNN White House correspondent Arlette Saenz is traveling with the president.
And, Arlette, you can forgive him for being where you are, thousands of miles away. But we've been covering this story now for three hours. It's a
bit hard to believe that he's just now getting briefed, no?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. President Biden was not exactly clear where he's saying he's just getting briefed if he meant right
after the speech or perhaps it happened right before.
But in his -- that response to that reporter, the president declined to offer any further substantive comments to this developing situation in
South Korea. A stunning move, especially when you think about the fact that South Korea is such a key ally of the United States.
Now, a National Security Council spokesperson told me earlier today that the U.S. government Korean government and they are monitoring the situation
very closely.
And a senior administration official told CNN a short while ago that the U.S. is watching this with great concern. So certainly, officials are still
trying to get a handle on what exactly has been playing out in South Korea over the past few hours.
[12:25:07]
For President Biden's part, he was actually meeting this morning with the Angolan president and arrived back at his hotel around the time that this
started to break in the press. So the president did spend a few hours at his hotel. There's a chance that he spoke with his advisers about this
then.
But it will come as the U.S. will continue to monitor this very closely, especially when you consider the fact that South Korea is such a key ally
of the United States.
President Biden has gone to great lengths to try to court and build that relationship with South Korea, and specifically with President Yoon over
his time in the White House, hosting him for a state visit, hosting him at Camp David for a trilateral summit meeting, the first of its kind, with
Japan.
President Biden actually was last with President Yoon when they attended the G20 and the APEC summits down in South America.
And while they were both in Peru, they held a meeting with the new Japanese prime minister. And in that meeting, President Biden specifically laid out
that the relationship between the U.S., Japan and South Korea would be the foundation of any peace and stability in the Indo-Pacific going down the
road.
So certainly this is something that the White House will be watching incredibly closely. And it will be interesting to see how President Biden
handles this, especially when he has staked so much of his presidency on these arguments that there needs to be a preservation of democracy, not
just at home in the United States, but also abroad.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Not just the meeting in Peru. Before that, President Biden held a trilateral summit between the leaders there of South Korea and Japan
at Camp David, as well in July.
Arlette Saenz, traveling with the U.S. president. Thank you so much.
ASHER: All right. Let's bring in Sydney Seiler. He's a senior advisor at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a former special
envoy for the Six-Party Talks on North Korea. He joins us live now from Washington, D.C.
Sydney, thank you so much for being with us. I'm not sure if you heard our reporter there, but she's essentially saying that the U.S. is watching this
with a lot of concern, especially because such a pivotal part of Biden's presidency has been, of course, talking about the value of democracy all
around the world.
How does the U.S. go forward in navigating its relationship with President Yoon?
This is not the first time, by the way, that President Yoon has been accused of democratic backsliding, as you know. And, of course, the U.S. is
in the middle of its own political transition as well. Give us your take on that.
SYDNEY SEILER, SENIOR ADVISOR, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Thank you very much for the opportunity to come on today.
It is a complicated situation we find ourselves in. I think, you know, immediately when we hear about martial law and the Republic of Korea, we
think about the long history that the Republic has gone through as part of its democratization, moving through a couple of coup d'etats, a couple of
previous martial law periods.
I don't think that's what we're looking at here now. We are, as you know, previous commentators, particularly Bruce Klingner had mentioned, this is a
political action by President Yoon and amidst a deadlock in South Korean politics where, you know, key issues such as budget and other very
important issues, both to the president and to the country are being deadlocked by non-cooperation between the ruling and opposition parties.
I think, you know, first of all, President Yoon is a lawyer, and he knows well the law, and he knows what he's doing. He knows the Constitution. And
I do believe he believes he's working within some parameters of which, for him, are necessary to reestablish some type of governance in South Korea,
obviously to the detriment of democracy, not the first time the United States has had to deal with a partner like that in Seoul.
It will be difficult and challenging to go ahead, but I don't think it's as bad as previous martial law periods. So drawing quick conclusions about
which way this may break going forward based upon the past may be premature.
GOLODRYGA: When will you start to worry, Sydney, in terms of hearing from President Yoon? It's been over three hours now since we first saw him speak
and address the public in South Korea near midnight, announcing martial law in the country.
Subsequently, since then, we've seen parliament gather in vote to block that martial law. You noted that he is a lawyer by training, served as a
chief prosecutor under his predecessor's administration.
Are you surprised that we have yet to hear from him? And when will you start to worry about the significance of these events if we don't hear from
him in the coming hours?
SEILER: So I think the two things to watch, first of all, is the disposition of the military. I am pretty confident that President Yoon
entered this, deploying the military, but with absolute desire not to have to use force.
[12:30:08]
You know, it's unacceptable to deploy the military in the first place, but the idea that this would escalate to some type of bloodbath is beyond what
the situation so far appears to have developed.
The second piece is how President Yoon responds, of course, to the National Assembly overwhelming vote against the martial law and how he accepts it.
This could be the departure point for President Yoon seeking some type of, you know, ability to talk with the opposition about how to break through
the current deadlock. I would expect something within the next 12 to 24 hours, nothing before then.
Meanwhile, we need to keep our eyes focused on North Korea and whether they will see an opportunity to exploit this, as I think Bruce Klingner
discussed earlier.
ASHER: And just in terms of just to touch on something you mentioned there, just, you know, how he responds to the National Assembly vote, what options
does he have at this point? If you could lay out the sort of multiple different scenarios that he's facing in terms of how this could all end.
SEILER: So, you know, people have mentioned that, you know, already President Yoon was at a sub-20 percent approval rating. That's going to go
even lower. That he had gotten to a point where he's got no cooperation from the opposition.
I think cooperation from the ruling party will be questionable going forward. I think the votes are probably lining up in support of some type
of impeachment against Yoon, just as they had previously with President Park Geun-hye. His ability to navigate this will really demonstrate whether
he's taken a grave miscalculation in terms of -- if his play was to somehow do something shocking, a shock-and-awe maneuver that fits within the
definition and what's allowed under the Constitution, to be sure, but which runs against all elements of democratic processes and principles.
You know, he may -- most people are saying right now that he miscalculated and he will not survive this. I still think there's a possibility for him
to now sit down with the opposition and say, OK, enough messing around. Let's figure out how we move forward and we can roll back these elements of
martial law.
GOLODRYGA: Is this something that you think, Sydney, President Yoon could have done just unilaterally without really consulting with anyone else? As
we noted earlier, the head of his own party spoke out quickly and criticized President Yoon for this move.
SEILER: Well, so we knew that President Yoon had some differences with the head of his party, you know. And also that President Yoon is known for
decisively moving forward regardless of the political ramifications and public opinion. So that's all consistent with his behavior till now.
I find it extremely hard that he would not believe that he would have done this without consulting with his top domestic and foreign policy, national
security advisors to think about the implications.
So the decision ultimately was his, but I'm sure there was some consultation before the fact.
ASHER: All right. Sydney Seiler, live for us there. Thank you so much for your insight and perspective. We appreciate it.
GOLODRYGA: And still to come for us, we'll have more on the political chaos unfolding as we speak in South Korea where lawmakers have voted to block
the martial law decree announced by the president.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:35:55]
ASHER: All right. Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: We are following breaking news out of South Korea. It is just after 2:30 in the morning there. Lawmakers in the country's parliament have
unanimously voted to block a martial law decree by President Yoon.
CNN's Mike Valerio is outside the parliament and filed this for us moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're here in the crowd and there are two military vehicles that are trying to get out of here.
We're just a few blocks away from the National Assembly. There were some soldiers that were saying their military vehicles are trying to leave the
area and get back to their base.
Protesters, of course, voicing their huge outrage and dismay at this moment. Local police with shields around us. We're going to -- we're going
to move a couple steps away.
Look at this one over here. Unbelievable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Joining us now is a historian who specializes in the Korean Peninsula, John Delury, is a professor at Yonsei University Graduate School
of International Studies in Rome, Italy.
Professor, welcome to the program. I would imagine you're just as shocked as most of the rest of the world is. It appears even the president of the
United States and his advisers were blindsided by the developments in Korea over the last three hours.
I wonder what you make of what one of our previous guests just said in terms of when he would really start to worry. And that is if we don't hear
from President Yoon with let's say, within the next 12 to 24 hours.
I can't imagine things remaining stable if we don't hear from him before that period of time. You have got a vibrant economy and stock market that
is set to open in the country. I mean, the ripple effects would be rather significant if we remain in the current status quo, no?
JOHN DELURY, PROFESSOR AT YONSEI UNIVERSITY GRADUATE SCHOOL OF INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Yes, that's right.
First of all, I'm absolutely stunned. Like pretty much every one I'm talking to in South Koreans back in Seoul. It's just a really shocking turn
of events. There are different timelines now. You know, there's the 24-hour timeline. Tomorrow, you know, I would expect mass demonstrations in the
streets of Seoul.
Many people fell asleep. They're going to wake up and learn that there was martial law. And I mean, you can almost call it a presidential coup against
the legislature. I think it's fair to describe it in those terms.
So just wait until all of South Korea wakes up tomorrow morning with this also still somewhat unresolved in terms of, you know, the question of
whether martial law is really open-ended. And what are the implications for the president?
So, you know, how he chooses to appear or not tomorrow, that's just the first test, but that's the 24-hour timeline. There's a longer timeline as
well as South Korea has to kind of dig itself out of this political disaster.
ASHER: Looking back at the sort of history of democracy in South Korea, I mean, the road to democracy for this country has not been in a straight
line at all.
[12:40:06]
And, obviously, you had decades of military coups and dictatorship. And then in 1980, you had the Gwangju Uprising, and you had several throughout
the '80s, sort of pro-democracy protests that eventually led in the late '80s to the sort of real democratization of that country.
A lot of the older generation in South Korea are going to look at this moment and immediately remembers past traumatic memories from the '80s,
from the early '80s, 1980. Especially, what does this moment mean for the younger generation in South Korea who perhaps, you know, have only really
known their country as a pure democracy, especially if they were born after, let's say, 1990?
DELURY: Yes, that's right. Well, in some ways, you know, and I'm no longer at Yonsei, but I taught there for well over a decade. And, you know, my
students grew up in a South Korea that they could take for granted was a consolidated democracy and a really vital democracy.
Obviously, every democracy has its problems, but South Korea would be upwards at the top in terms of their life trajectory.
And so, again, they're the kinds of, you know, those young people are learning about it now on their phone. Some of them maybe showed up to
Gwanghwamun. They're all going to wake up tomorrow, go to school, go to work and ask themselves, where are we in South Korean history?
Because even if they haven't lived through it in their generation, it's not that far back, right? It's something that their parents went through and
certainly their grandparents multiple times. So I am waiting, having also been in Korea during the protests against the president at the time, Park
Geun-hye, that led to her impeachment and these incredible weekend after weekend through a cold winter of a million people marching peaceably
through the areas that we're watching on the news now, demanding that she step down, that she resign.
There's an incredible will to democracy that I think is intergenerational. And maybe this is a moment where now the youngest generation experiences it
firsthand.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And as you noted, if we're already seeing thousands of people there gathering, as our Mike Valerio was in the midst of there in
his report just moments ago, it's not even 3:00 in the morning in the country. Just one can imagine what we will see in the coming hours, as you
said, people wake up and hear the news that the country was under martial law.
Professor John Delury, thank you so much.
DELURY: Pleasure. Thank you.
ASHER: We have much more on this breaking news after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:45:31]
ASHER: All right. More now on our breaking news story. The political chaos unfolding as we speak in South Korea.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Lawmakers in the National Assembly have voted to block a surprise martial law decree announced by the president, calling it invalid.
Now, it's unclear what effect this vote will have on the martial law declaration.
ASHER: President Yoon made the declaration in a late-night address after accusing the main opposition party of sympathizing with North Korea.
GOLODRYGA: Thousands of protesters, meantime, have gathered outside of Parliament in Seoul in the middle of the night to protest the president's
declaration.
ASHER: Question remains, can lawmakers vote invalidate the martial law decree?
GOLODRYGA: We pose that question to CNN military analyst, Colonel Cedric Leighton, who says it's still not quite clear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: There's some conflicting rules within the South Korean government. The president, just like in the United
States, is the commander-in-chief of the armed forces.
But under the constitution of South Korea, the parliament has the ability to overturn martial law, which is, of course, just what happened.
So now, as Mike mentioned, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in South Korea, the South Korean chairman, Admiral Kim, is going to be
somebody who has to make a major decision here forces in a public way against the people of South Korea, potentially.
That, of course, would mark a major break with the structure and the organization of the South Korean military in the modern age.
In the past, South Korean military was used to quell disturbances, to quell riots domestically, but in some cases quite tragically.
But this is a different time. And the South Korean military has professionalized itself along the lines of the U.S. military.
So the type of domestic issues that would make the South Korean military do something like that, had basically been washed away by the democratic
institutions at South Korea has created in the last few decades.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: That was Colonel Cedric Leighton speaking to our Pamela Brown earlier on. We'll have much more on this breaking news out of Seoul, South
Korea after this short break. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:50:24]
GOLODRYGA: All right. We continue to follow breaking news this hour with lawmakers in South Korea voting to block the surprise martial law decree
announced by President Yoon.
CNN's Mike Valerio joins us now from outside Parliament, again reminding our viewers, as they can see there, it's 2:50 in the morning and the
streets are now becoming more and more crowded with citizens coming out in protest, in shock, as the rest of the world really was to news of their
president just four hours ago declaring martial law. Tell us what you're seeing and hearing.
VALERIO: Well, we should note that a couple minutes ago, we saw military vehicles, two Humvees, leave the area around the National Assembly, just
about two blocks from where we're standing.
So there were shots of joy and elation that members of the military were pulling back after, again, South Korea's National Assembly declared that
martial law should be overturned.
So what we're hearing right now, a couple meters behind me, a couple yards behind me, Cho Juk Hoo (ph) is a member of an opposition party, a former
just minister, liberal -- from the liberal side of the equation, political equation here.
He is saying that this institution of martial law was indeed illegal. We're hearing a chorus from the crowd gathered around us that Yoon Suk-Yeol,
South Korea's president, should be impeached and that his days, if they're not over, should be numbered based on what happened just a few hours ago.
So we have seen more and more people start to rally around the square here in front of National Assembly fighting for democracy.
Such a shock to hear the news when President Yoon Suk Yeol of South Korea addressed the nation in a surprise televised speech saying that he was
instituting martial law to rid the country, paraphrasing here what he said, of elements supporting North Korea and supporting communism within the
government.
Incredibly unclear what he meant by that statement. But I think for anybody joining us who's not familiar with politics in South Korea and what's
happening, the South Korean president, conservative president, highly unpopular. His favorability ratings are in the upper 20s right now, and
they've been that way for months.
There are constant calls over the past few months to impeach him. Protests every Saturday echoing throughout the streets of Seoul to impeach the
president.
So could this have been a move to tamp down on criticism? One wonders what the end game by South Korea's president was.
So now the speech is over by again by Cho Kuk, that former justice minister. We're talking to more and more people.
But again, they say, such a feeling of shock that a bastion of democracy here in East Asia has been subjected to this, not under military
dictatorship or a military martial rule, excuse me, since military dictatorship in the 1980s.
ASHER: Yes. And speaking impeachment, I mean, there was a petition to calling to impeach President Yoon of the summer that garnered well over a
million signatures and that number rose steadily in a number of days.
Just in terms of the fact that now we know that lawmakers have voted to block this martial law decree, do we expect to hear from the president in
the coming hours, Mike?
VALERIO: So it may be -- choosing the words carefully, perhaps not so much a stalemate, but sort of either side wondering what happens next. As you
mentioned, the parliament voting to invalidate this declaration of martial law.
Now the president's cabinet has to rubber stamp that vote. Under law, the president has to follow parliament's lead and abide by its decision to
overturn martial law. But have we heard from South Korea's president since that televised address? No. So the ball really is in his court, to follow
the lead of parliament that has decided that this, you know, martial law, no way, this is not happening.
So I think that the whole multitude of people gathered around us are more than eager to hear what Yoon Suk's next move will be. That is what we're
waiting for in the wee hours of the morning here outside of the National Assembly.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. We're waiting to hear more of definitive statement from President Biden who we noted, is travelling in Angola new speak. Though, a
spokesperson for the National Security Council did say that the U.S. did not get a heads-up from President Yoon as to his decision to declare
martial law a far cry from the quaint days where he was visiting the United States back in April and serenading the president with American pie at a
state dinner.
[12:55:11]
Mike, there, we saw people gathered behind you. It appears they've started to disperse. But what is the mood that you've heard overall in general from
those who have gathered outside to this news?
VALERIO: I think it's a nation that is done. It is one that, you know, people were getting ready to go to bed. They hear on social media that the
president is addressing the nation.
And, you know, as more and more details were trickling out, people, including myself, were looking at their phones, and we thought, wait, is
this a typo? South Korea?
You know, is this North Korea? Is this some sort of mistake that martial law is instituted in South Korea.
So I think that there still is a palpable feeling of disbelief, dismay, and shock, and wondering what will happen to the president next and seriously
doubting that he can continue when parliament has voted to overturn his decision and when there are certainly multitudes of people gathered around
us.
And I should say when there have been protests for several weekends before this we're expecting more protests in the weeks to come.
ASHER: Yes. Many people saying that his days are numbered in office so this could be over for him and he could be impeached.
Mike Valerio, live for us there. Thank you so much.
That wraps up the show. I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Thanks so much for watching. Our coverage continues next with "AMANPOUR."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:00:00]
END
