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One World with Zain Asher
Displaced Syrians Return To Aleppo After Rebel Takeover; President's Party Calls For A Suspension Of His Powers; New Clues In Hunt For a Suspect In Healthcare CEO's Murder; Biden Aides Discussing Preemptive Pardons For Trump Critics; 2024 Africa Youth Survey Results; Social Media Star Debuts "Children Of Oct. 7" Documentary. Aired 12-1p ET
Aired December 06, 2024 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:36]
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We take you inside Aleppo as rebel forces in Syria gain new ground.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: ONE WORLD starts right now.
Syrian rebels speed towards the vital city of Homs as a new group of rebels in the country south now vows to reach Damascus.
ASHER: And fresh clues, including a possible DNA in the search for the man who shot the UnitedHealthcare CEO.
GOLODRYGA: Plus, as Donald Trump's team continues to push its cabinet picks, President Biden looks at preemptive pardons before Trump takes
office.
Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. You are watching ONE WORLD.
We want to begin for you in Syria where Bashar al-Assad and his authoritarian government in Damascus are now facing a rebel assault from
two fronts.
GOLODRYGA: The latest advance appears to be coming from the south. Rebels in Daraa province say they've captured several government posts along the
border with Jordan, just hours after launching the fresh offensive.
ASHER: Yes. Footage geolocated by CNN shows them occupying a road between the border and Daraa City. And in the north, a day after sweeping through
the city of Hama, opposition forces are now speeding towards Homs. Residents there are fleeing ahead of potential clashes between the rebels
and regime forces.
GOLODRYGA: Meanwhile, just a week after it was captured by rebel fighters, formally displaced Syrians in Aleppo are now returning to their hometown
for the first time in years.
Some spoke about their experience with CNN's Jomana Karadsheh. She was the first Western journalist to report from the city since the rebel takeover.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are in Aleppo's old city here by its historic iconic citadel, and it's really surreal being in Syria's
second city, just days after that lightning offensive by rebel forces, where they managed to capture the city in a matter of days.
And you look around here and it seems like business as usual.
Mahmed (ph) never left Aleppo and she says their homes were destroyed. Her children are in Turkey and she hasn't seen them in years. And she's hoping
now that the city has changed hands, that this means that she could see her children again.
(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
KARADSHEH: Abdul (ph) was in Idlib, but he's been there since the start of the war and this is first time back to a city.
(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
KARADSHEH: He says, they trust the rebels who are now returning them to their cities. And he says he's not afraid. Syrians have gone through so
much and they're resilient.
Just in the last few days, people have painted over this with the colors of the Free Syria flag. And this is something you see around the city, where
people are trying to remove any signs of the Assad regime.
This is the Bassel, a roundabout named after the deceased brother of the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, and one of the first things that people
did when rebel forces took over the city of Aleppo was topple the statue of Bassel, a symbol of the Assad regime.
This is an area where there were fierce battles with regime forces. And since then, in the past few days, there's been an airstrike that killed
many people. You can still see the aftermath of that, the blood on the floor here.
And speaking to people in the city, this is what they fear. They fear that there will be more Russian and Syrian regime airstrikes that they will be
back for the city of Aleppo.
Mohammed, this is your first time back to Aleppo in 10 years?
MOHAMMED ALI JOUDEH, DISPLACED ALEPPO RESIDENT: Ten years, yes.
KARADSHEH: Did you ever imagine this moment possible?
JOUDEH: No. Actually, no, no. We have in our imagination that we are going to come back. Actually, we had a lot of dreams about getting back to
Aleppo, but we didn't actually believe that this moment is going to be true.
[12:05:08]
KARADSHEH: But are you worried about what might be coming?
JOUDEH: Of course, we are, here, all the people here are worried about what's going to happen because the airstrikes always attack us.
KARADSHEH: But you can imagine living here again.
JOUDEH: Of course, of course. I love my country. I love my -- actually, all of the Syrian place, the Syrian country, our country, we hope it's going to
be clear from the Assad regime. All the Syria, not just Aleppo.
KARADSHEH: Speaking to people here, you get this sense of joy and relief to see the regime of Bashar al-Assad gone. But also there's this apprehension,
anxiety, fear of what might be coming. People don't really know what to expect from these rebel forces who've taken over Aleppo.
But most people that we've spoken to say that their biggest fear is what the regime and its allies are going to do. A real fear of going back to the
bloody days of the civil war in Syria.
Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, Aleppo, Syria.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KARADSHEH: And Jomana had the chance to sit down for an exclusive interview with the leader of the main group driving Syria's opposition, his first
with any media in years.
Abu Mohammad al-Jolani is not holding back about the goal of the rebels' stunning offensive, saying their ambitions are to ultimately overthrow
President Bashar al-Assad.
He also explains how his forces have been able to sweep through Syria.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARADSHEH: Taking Hama, after taking Aleppo. I mean, how significant is this for you right now?
ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI, HAYAT TAHRIR AL-SHAM LEADER (through translator): From a military perspective, what comes after Hama will not be the same as
what came before.
However, I prefer not to be overly optimistic during the battle. I like to remain cautious and vigilant to avoid complacency and ensure we don't
suffer losses while believing we are safe.
KARADSHEH: What comes after this? What's after Hama?
AL-JOLANI (through translator): The course of the battle, as for the secrets of the battle, let's leave them to the unfolding events. You will
witness them in reality, which is better than discussing them now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: And joining us live now is Robert Ford. He was the last U.S. ambassador to Syria, leaving the country in 2012 when the violence got
significantly worse. Ambassador, thank you so much for being with us.
So we just had a snippet of the interview with the head of HTS, al-Jolani, with our Jomana Karadsheh.
And he says that his stated goal in all of this is not just obviously to take over Aleppo, then Homs, and then, you know, obviously they're trying
to make their way to Damascus. They also got Hama as well.
But their goal is really to overthrow the Assad regime. Give us your take on that. Can they actually do it? Is this the window of opportunity that
they've been waiting for at least eight years?
ROBERT FORD, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SYRIA: Oh. Thank you.
First of all, Jolani has always had this goal. He has never changed. He has never wavered in it.
Second, I think what we are seeing in Syria is the most serious challenge during the entire 12-year Syrian civil war.
The most serious challenge to the Assad government's control over the country. Never before have the Syrian armed opposition controlled Aleppo in
its entirety, Hama and the eastern part and the southern parts of the country all at the same time.
The Assad government's control looks very shaky, but the future of Syria itself, and the end of the civil war is still very much in question.
GOLODRYGA: Mr. Ambassador, the prime regional beneficiary out of all of this appears to be Turkey. And just today, to confirm that, President
Erdogan said that he hopes the Syrian rebels will advance, quote, without any accidents or hardships.
He's doing this at a time when he's trying to limit Russia and Iran's influence in Syria. But does he not also risk further instability at his
own border?
FORD: I think you have hit a nail right on the head. The Turkish government would very much like for Syrian refugees in Turkey. There are four million
of them. They'd like a very large number of them to leave Turkey and return to their homes in Syria.
If Aleppo stays calm and secure, hundreds of thousands, if not a million or more Syrians displaced from Syria's second largest city, Aleppo, could go
home. That would be a huge gain right there for President Erdogan and his government.
[12:10:03]
If fighting continues in and around Damascus, which is still possible, it would delay the return of other Syrians. If Homs falls, again, hundreds of
thousands of Syrian refugees would be able to return to Homs if it stays secure and stable.
ASHER: The Assad regime has been in power for, I think, more than five decades since 1971. And to maintain that grip on power, the regime has had
to carry out really brutal tasks, including murdering thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of civilians, obviously, you know, displacing
millions of people, of course, across Syria.
Just in terms of the U.S.'s strategic interests, whether you have Assad in power, whether you have HTS in power, which is, as far as the U.S. is
concerned, the lesser of the two evils.
FORD: Well, it's difficult to say what's best for American interests. Obviously, the United States has had an extremely difficult relationship
with the Bashar al-Assad government over the years.
Bashar al-Assad's government, for example, facilitated the movement of jihadists into Iraq 10 years ago, 15 years ago that were killing American
soldiers, as well as Iraqi civilians and soldiers.
At the same time that the U.S. President, Abdulkadir (ph) Jolani had links to Al-Qaeda and the Islamic State. He seems to have cut those ties. He's
acting in a more moderate fashion now. But in a sense, he's an unknown quantity, both among Syrians, as well as with the international community.
I think the best thing that the Americans can do right now is work for a ceasefire and a peaceful transition to a new Syrian government, negotiated
by Syrians.
GOLODRYGA: When you look at what we heard in some of this interview, this exclusive interview with our Jomana Karadsheh and al-Jolani, he said two
things. He says that the Syrian regime is now dead, in his words, and the, quote, our goal is to build institutional governance.
What does that even look like in your view? Institutional governance. It's one thing to lead a lightning-paced revolt and assault, as he has been for
the past week and a half. It's quite another to lead a country made up of such a variety of sects.
Do you think, at this point, he has the ability to govern the country as a whole? And in your view, is the Assad regime, for better or worse, dead, as
he describes?
FORD: Well, I think the Bashar al-Assad government and the entire regime is really shaking right now in a way it has not since the civil war started in
early 2012.
I think let's talk for about Jolani and his HTS group for a minute. We have two models of what it -- what it is and how it might be. He's been
governing the province of Idlib and its capital, Idlib City since 2015. It functions. It has everything from a Department of Health to a Department of
Education to Department of Economic Development, electricity, water, infrastructure services function.
Syrian-American medical groups that send American citizens, Syrian-American citizens go over there to work in hospitals and clinics providing
healthcare, have told me that they work comfortably with the HTS people.
The HTS fighters don't bother them. They don't ask for money. They don't kidnap them. That the doctors and the medical staff can perform their work
without difficulty.
We now should look at the Aleppo City where your correspondent was just reporting. And we would just have to say so far so good, but it's still
very, very early days.
And in particular, the Syrian opposition has not all confirmed that they are loyal to Abdulkadir Jolani, there are still different factions,
including the important Syrian-Kurdish community and a militia faction in that community, which is very uncomfortable with Jolani, even if they are
not fighting him.
ASHER: And the fact that there are so many different factions does complicate matters for HTS, you know, given that their stated goal is to
march towards Damascus and overthrow the Assad regime.
We know that the foreign ministers of Iran, Russia, Turkey are meeting tomorrow on the sidelines of a forum in Doha. They're obviously going to be
discussing Syria.
What can those nations do, just in terms of assisting the Assad regime at this particular point in time?
[12:15:59]
FORD: Well, these are the three key international actors, with respect to the Syrian situation. I think the most they could hope for at this point,
the most, would be some kind of a ceasefire that enables a transition government to form negotiated by Syrians.
This is part of an old U.N. plan that dates back to the year 2012. The Bashar al-Assad government always, always, always refused compromise,
refused any political concessions, just form a transition government.
Its position now is much weaker. If you look at social media accounts of loyalists to the Assad government, it is remarkable the change of tune in
24 hours. Suddenly, they're talking about everybody being friends and national unity, a very different tone.
GOLODRYGA: A much weakened Bashar Assad without the assistance of Iran, via its proxy, Hezbollah, who has been mired and severely weakened in its
fighting with Israel and obviously Russia, which has been focused the past two years and its war in Ukraine, which helps bring us to this situation in
Syria.
Ambassador Robert Ford, thank you so much.
ASHER: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: And a programming note, Jomana's full interview with Abu Mohammad al-Jolani will air in the next hour on "Amanpour."
Turning to Gaza now. Eyewitnesses say four doctors at the Kamal Adwan Hospital were killed after Israeli forces stormed the compound.
Dozens are reported to have been injured or killed. The hospital director says two Israeli messengers entered the hospital telling people to evacuate
early Friday morning.
ASHER: The director also said the IDF also detained a group of healthcare workers and patients and destroyed critical medical supplies.
CNN has reached out to the Israeli military for comment.
And the effort to secure the release of hostages in Gaza may be getting a new player. A source tells CNN that Israeli President Isaac Herzog actually
called Elon Musk about reviving talks.
The source says that Herzog reached out to Musk at the request of hostage families who hope he can apply pressure to all sides to reach a deal.
GOLODRYGA: Now, the call came after President-elect Donald Trump said this week that there would be, quote, all hell to pay in the Middle East if the
hostages held in Gaza are not released by January 20th.
It's believed there are some 96 hostages in Gaza who were taken during the Hamas attack on Israel, October 7th of last year.
ASHER: All right. Still to come, South Korea's president is getting backlash from his own party as he faces a call for his impeachment.
GOLODRYGA: Plus, new details that could lead New York police in identifying the suspect who gunned down a healthcare CEO. The growing trail of clues,
just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:20:17]
GOLODRYGA: In South Korea, there's a new call for the president's powers to be suspended from the chief of his own party. Han Dong-hoon says new
evidence has come to light of President Yoon ordering arrests of key politicians during the short-lived martial law imposed earlier this week.
ASHER: Yes. The drastic U-turn comes ahead of an impeachment vote in Parliament. Some members of the People Power Party have criticized
President Yoon's martial law decree, but don't support impeachment.
CNN's Mike Valerio takes a look at the fallout from this week's event.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Days later, you can still see damage inside South Korea's National Assembly. In fact, if we look through this
hole, this is where a door was kicked through during clashes with soldiers. And you see tables, chairs, fancy sofas, pieces of office furniture that
were used to barricade this door. It would only be a short time later that soldiers left the building.
VALERIO (voice-over): In the aftermath of martial law, a critical question at the heart of South Korea's democracy. Will there be enough votes to
impeach President Yoon Suk Yeol? For liberal assembly member, Cho Kuk, he's confident, there will be.
CHO KUK, LEADER, REBUILDING KOREA PARTY: I think more than eight conservative congressmen will join.
VALERIO (voice-over): Cho was one of the people who rushed to the National Assembly and voted to suspend President Yoon's declaration of martial law.
We asked if Cho thinks there's a chance President Yoon declares martial law a second time.
KUK: The possibility is getting decreased, is decreasing, but exists, because President Yoon is still there. He's not removed.
VALERIO (voice-over): Still on the job is Lee Meng Woo (ph), who helped push back soldiers entering the assembly grounds. He took this video of
military helicopters landing nearby.
We were blocking the store with a big barricade, Lee told us. Special Forces soldiers were making their way into the building as I and other
officials built a barricade from the inside. The soldiers were barred by the barricade and the people.
The area was sealed off by law enforcement. Kim Yong Goon (ph) shows us how he helped lawmakers climb over a wall so they could get into the assembly
and vote to end martial law.
I crouched like this, four of us moved as one team, Kim said. We decided to help the lawmakers get inside the building. Two of us made a distraction
for the police, and I crouched down for the lawmakers to climb over the wall.
President Yoon's office released a statement late Thursday saying he declared martial law within a, quote, legitimate framework in order to
regulate political activity and confront the forces destroying liberal democracy.
As for Cho's message to those across South Korea.
KUK: My fellow citizens, President Yoon will be removed very soon. Do not worry about that. Keep your conviction. Do not hesitate to remove the
tyranny. Tyranny.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: All right. A smiling photo, a fake ID, a bus, and now possibly DNA are the latest developments in the investigation into the shooting of a
healthcare CEO in Midtown Manhattan.
Detectives say they're now testing DNA samples taken from a water bottle and a cell phone found at the murder scene.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. This after cameras caught the suspect lowering his mask and smiling at a hostel employee. Sources say the suspect also used a fake ID
and cash to check in.
We also are learning that the suspect arrived into the city by bus 10 days before the shooting. The bus route starting in Atlanta, but it remains
unclear where he actually got on the bus.
Joining us now is CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller.
And, John, it's been about 24 hours since we've seen the most detailed clues just yet and evidence into tracking who this killer is, and that is
obviously the full-faced images of him checking into the hostel.
Are you surprised? What are you hearing at this point, hours after the public has been made aware of these photos as to any information they could
have gleaned since then?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, Bianna, what we're hearing is that they are getting calls into the tip
line. Some of them are the normal far-fetched reports. Some of them are credible reports. Some of them are unhelpful in that they said I think I
saw that guy pass by at this place at this time, you know.
But they're not getting multiple calls of people saying, I know who that guy is. And, you know, that's what you expect is you're going to get a
bunch of calls giving you the same name. That's usually a clue that people recognize him and that's right. They're not getting that.
[12:25:04]
So what that suggests is possibly and likely that he's not a New Yorker. People here don't know him. People here wouldn't have seen him except for
walking around with a mask and a hood.
So I think the messaging is going to be since he came here on a bus that originated in Atlanta, although we don't know where he got on, as you
pointed out, and he got off in New York. To point the messaging to, we're looking at people who live along that route.
Do you know somebody who looks like this? Do you recognize that as somebody who might have disappeared on the 24th and turned back up maybe Thursday of
this week? We want to hear about that. So that's where -- that's where they're at.
ASHER: And, John, aside from the, you know, the smiling photo where he's flirting with the receptionist, he hasn't really made any serious mistakes.
I mean, he obviously knew to sort of keep his mask on and keep his hoodie on the entire time.
He obviously understood that in Manhattan there are a lot of cameras, except for in Central Park, right? So he knew that would be a perfect
getaway route. He had a fake ID the entire time that apparently the name on the ID didn't really belong to anyone else. It wasn't -- it didn't appear
as if it was a stolen ID.
So just based on all of that, does it point to the possibility that this was a hired professional? Could this have been a hired hit man? I mean,
obviously, this person does seem to have had a lot of experience in this arena.
MILLER: I mean, it could have been. But, you know, coming up here on a bus, staying in a youth hostel, these are places where he was in a room for four
people, where there were two other people staying, he was the third.
Putting yourself up close and personal with, you know, and sleeping quarters with two people who are going to have a long time to observe you,
it doesn't have the feel of a well-funded professional hit man.
On the other hand, you know, somebody might argue that going to the hostel is the only place in terms of a hotel where you don't have to present a
credit card, you know, you can pay in cash and you're creating less of a record, you know, but that's --
ASHER: And he checked out and then checked backed in again. He checked out --
MILLER: Right.
ASHER: -- and then checked back in again.
MILLER: And that's a gap. They don't know where he checked out and went to, whether he wanted to pick a hotel or some other place closer to the Hilton.
But that day is still a bit of a -- of a mystery.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And you do raise an interesting point. I mean, I do wonder if the NYPD or if authorities had released the photo nationwide as soon as
they became aware of it as opposed to many hours later, would that have given them any more of a lead.
But as you said they're starting to do just that and spreading his image across the country as they're waiting for more and more clues.
John Miller, thank you so much.
ASHER: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Always good to see you.
MILLER: Thanks.
GOLODRYGA: Well, the jury in a controversial case that has divided New Yorkers has been told to continue its deliberations.
ASHER: Yes. Jurists in the manslaughter trial of former marine, Daniel Penny, had previously told the judge that they were at an impasse. Penny
was charged after a homeless man died, after Penny put him in a chokehold on a New York subway.
Penny says he was protecting other passengers after Jordan Neely began acting, in his words, erratically.
GOLODRYGA: After 16 hours of deliberations, the jury said that it was hopelessly deadlocked on a charge of second-degree manslaughter.
Now, if the jury finds Penny not guilty, it could still consider lesser charges. We'll continue to follow this story for you.
Meantime, moments ago, the Romanian president addressed his nation to try to calm some of the political uncertainty after the country's top court
annulled the first round of presidential elections set for this weekend.
President Klaus Iohannis said Romania is stable and secure. And he will stay on until a new president is elected.
Now, you may recall, far-right ultra-nationalist, Calin Georgescu, won the vote by a narrow margin.
ASHER: The court's ruling requires the Romanian government to restart the voting process. That means a second round runoff slated for Sunday with
Georgescu facing his political rival, Elena Lasconi, will no longer take place.
It's not clear yet when a new election will occur. In a press release, the court said the annulment was needed to ensure, quote, correctness and
legality of the electoral process.
GOLODRYGA: Well, one of Joe Biden's last actions may be his most controversial. The U.S. president may take an unprecedented step to protect
the people on Donald Trump's enemies list.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:30:21]
ASHER: Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. This weekend, Donald Trump will travel to France to attend the reopening of Notre Dame Cathedral after the
devastating fire there in 2019.
ASHER: Before leaving, Trump took a moment to voice support for his embattled pick to run the U.S. Department of Defense, Pete Hegseth, who's
battling allegations of excessive drinking and sexual misconduct. Hegseth has more meetings with the Republican senators planned for next week.
GOLODRYGA: Meanwhile, CNN has learned that senior aides to Joe Biden are discussing whether the president should issue preemptive pardons to people
who might be targeted for prosecution by Donald Trump.
ASHER: Trump and many of his closest allies have openly talked about going after his political rivals.
However, Biden's aides are concerned that pardons could imply that the recipient has actually done something wrong and therefore needs to be
pardoned.
GOLODRYGA: Let's talk more about all the big stories coming out of Washington this week. Joining us now is CNN political commentator S.E.
Cupp. S.E., it's good to see you, as always.
So looking for a political and historic context, it wouldn't be unprecedented to launch a preemptive or to announce a preemptive pardon. We
saw President Ford do the same with President Nixon, but you can't compare President Nixon to the likes of Liz Cheney and Adam Schiff and Special
counsel Jack Smith, and even Anthony Fauci's name had been reported as well.
What do you make of this and ultimately do you think it would be the right thing to do for President Biden or something that you think could actually
have a counter effect?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. The difference, as you point out, is these are people who should not need pardons preemptive or
otherwise. These are people who did their jobs or stood up to corruption or called out inequity or, you know, what have you. They shouldn't need
pardons.
[12:35:10]
The problem comes though if they do that, I think it signals a few things, it signals that as the Biden administration is outgoing, we stand up for
these people who did the courageous thing and did their jobs in the face of adversity and we don't want them being targeted or punished.
But on the other end, Trump can then say, well, I'm not going to target or punish them. I didn't target or punish them. I will not target or punish
them. And you're now getting sort of in the way of the next administration. You're kind of sticking your finger in it.
So it's messy either way. And that's why I think we should really reexamine the power of the pardon. I mean, it was not meant to pardon your kids who
behaved badly, your brothers, your friends, you know.
And it's been abused for years and years and years. And the people coming up now and saying, well, look, Bill Clinton pardoned his brother. Yes, that
wasn't great either. That was not a great use of the pardon either. Those were not the good old days and it shouldn't make it OK for every president
now coming ahead to use it in that kind of personal way.
I understand these are -- these are odd circumstances, but we've been dealing with odd unprecedented circumstances for the past 10 years now. I
don't know that that's going to let up. So I don't -- I don't think we need to use odd and unprecedented circumstances, ad infinitum for the rest of
our lives as a reason to do these kinds of things.
ASHER: Here's the thing though. Donald Trump has intimated, if not spoken directly about using his second term to go after political enemies, using
his second term as a tool of retribution.
And on top of that, when you look at the sort of names that he's thrown into the mix in terms of nominating them for key roles, obviously, Matt
Gaetz sure he withdrew, but Matt Gaetz for attorney general, Kash Patel for FBI head.
I mean, what does that tell you though, S.E., about the kind of Justice Department that Donald Trump is envisioning for a second term and also what
Biden might need to do to protect people from that particular Justice Department?
CUPP: Yes. Well, what it tells me is that I think exactly what you're intimating that Donald Trump is looking to put people into these positions
of power in a way to go after either some processes and procedures that he didn't like or actually some people that he thought were getting in the way
of his administration.
I put Pete Hegseth in that category as well, because what he and Pete have talked about doing over at defense is to rid it of wokeism. And that's not
-- that has nothing to do with going after our enemies, right? That's an internal kind of punitive course of action.
But in the end, this might not come -- this might not be Joe Biden's job to safeguard. It is the Senate's job. And despite what Pete and other -- and
other would-be nominees have said, they do have to answer to the Senate. They do have to answer to questions from these senators who have advice and
consent.
I spoke to a senator yesterday, who was very troubled by some of these appointments. I said, are you going to demand FBI background checks? And he
said, well, we can't like legally require them, but we can say if you don't perform these, we will not -- we will not approve these nominees.
So I think this is the job of the Senate. And as much as we want some of these people protected, there's -- I think there's only so much that the
executive can and should do. We have procedures in place for this sort of thing. And I believe that the Senate will ask all the hard questions.
GOLODRYGA: You mentioned Pete Hegseth. And he remains defiant as he fights to hang on to his nomination to run the Defense Department.
And I'm wondering, in pursuit of Donald Trump's policies, you have names that would be easily confirmable, Ron DeSantis, Joni Ernst just to name a
few --
CUPP: Right.
GOLODRYGA: -- who would act in accordance with how Donald Trump would envision his Pentagon, right? And his Defense Department.
Why do you think, thus far, and listen, things can change within an hour. We know that loyalty is a one-way street for Donald Trump.
But why do you think this week, and he's even issued a tweet that says he thinks Hegseth will go on through next week. Why is he so determined to
hang on to this specific man?
CUPP: Well, listen, he lost a couple already. And I'm sure that Donald Trump doesn't like that.
And I don't think he's eager to let what happened to Matt Gaetz become a pattern. And from inside reporting we have, he was mad at Matt Gaetz for
hiding some of the stuff that might have come out had he fully gone through the nominating process.
[12:40:00]
I don't think he wants to appear as though he's being, you know, bamboozled again. And so I think he's sticking by Pete, who has been a loyal -- a
loyal supporter of Donald Trump. I think he likes Pete, he likes him on TV, I get all that.
But I think, Bianna, you're going to -- what you're going to have is a DeSantis. I don't think Pete's going to survive this scrutiny. The senator
I talked to yesterday said this is going to be a very uncomfortable confirmation process for Pete Hegseth if he gets there.
So, you know, Donald Trump talks a big game. But as you know, he talks it until he doesn't. And then he can change his mind on a -- on a whim.
And I think between Pete and Tulsi Gabbard, these two are going to be very, very difficult. I think you're right that a lot of other qualified people
will get through and maybe even come up to replace those folks. But what I'm hearing from senators is that those two are very, very concerning to
them.
ASHER: All right. S.E. Cupp, live for us there. Thank you so much. Always good to see you. Appreciate it.
GOLODRYGA: Thanks, S.E.
ASHER: All right. Still to come, what matters most to the current generation of young Africans. Inside Africa takes a final look at what was
learned from the biannual Africa Youth Survey. That the story, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right. This week here on ONE WORLD, we've explored some of the key findings of the 2024 Africa Youth Survey. Key among them the importance
of combating climate change and encouraging early entrepreneurship.
GOLODRYGA: But what else did the survey tell us about the future of Africa? Here's a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REUBEN ICHIKOWITZ, TRUSTEE, ICHIKOWITZ FAMILY FOUNDATION: We started the African Youth Survey in 2020 when we realized that there wasn't an existing
body of research that scientifically polled the thoughts, aspirations, fears, and dreams of the youth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With more than 14,000 face-to-face interviews conducted in 25 countries, the biannual Africa Youth Survey is the most
comprehensive study of young people living, learning, and working in Africa.
OLWETHU THOKOZILE RADEBE, 2024 AFRICA YOUTH SURVEY, INTERVIEWEE: The African Youth Survey is great. It actually gathers the statistics of what
the youth has to say about the future, insights that the youth has right now so that we create a better future.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the African Youth Survey asked what the most important things are that Africa needed to progress, the message was clear.
Government corruption must be addressed, jobs must be created, and there must be an increase in access to basic needs and services.
[12:45:12]
IVOR ICHIKOWITZ, CHAIRMAN, ICHIKOWITZ FAMILY FOUNDATION: We're now into the fourth survey. The information is robust. We're able to predict trends.
Because we're talking to the generation that counts.
They now have the tools they have access to technology, they have access to education, they have access to their intellect.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Afro-optimism is back on the rise. After a dip in 2022, as the continent and indeed the world emerged from the COVID
pandemic.
KUMBI MUSIYAMBIRI, ANIMATOR/MOTION DESIGNER: Despite everything that Africa has gone through, all the different phases of its history, we're still
standing and we're still strong.
I think the kind of hope that young people hold is, eventually, I'll be in a position where I can affect change. We're ready to change the world now.
I. ICHIKOWITZ: The survey gives a huge amount of insight into real issues affecting the continent. I'm not under any illusion. We have huge
challenges and the challenges come out.
But the challenges are balanced by the fact that this generation has solutions to those problems. They don't believe that their Africanness is a
handicap. They know it's a superpower.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: Social media platform, TikTok, is one step closer to facing a ban in the U.S.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. U.S. appeals court upheld a law Friday that would ban TikTok if its Chinese parent company doesn't sell its stake in the app by
January 19th.
After the deadline, if it is not sold, app stores and internet services could face hefty fines for hosting TikTok.
TikTok argues that the law is unconstitutional. That is a major news story we'll continue to develop.
Turning to this other story, social media influencer, Montana Tucker, has a huge following thanks to her talents in music and dance.
Since October 7th, she says she's been driven to post content with a serious political message. And she says her pro-Israel views on the war in
Gaza have cost her hundreds of thousands of followers and business deals.
ASHER: Tucker says the backlash won't stop her. And in fact, she's made a documentary called "The Children of October 7th." The film premiered this
week in front of the president of Israel,
CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister sat down with Tucker for an interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
[12:50:11]
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Montana Tucker's dance videos made her a social media star with over nine million
followers on TikTok alone.
MONTANA TUCKER, SINGER: I've collaborated with people like Terry Crews or Ciara or Paula Abdul.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): But it was this --
TUCKER: Calling for the release of innocent hostages.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): -- support for Israel after the October 7th attacks that sent many of her followers fleeing.
WAGMEISTER: You've lost hundreds of thousands of followers since October 7th. Have you also lost brand deals?
TUCKER: Oh, yes. I would do multiple brand deals a week and then now the only brand deals I've received as of recently have been people that I like
we love your advocacy dancers that I've danced with for years that I've collaborated with. They have flat out told me they won't collaborate with
me because of my support for Israel.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): That support is deeply personal. Tucker is the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors.
TUCKER: My grandma, specifically, is a survivor of Auschwitz. So my grandma had to see her mother get beaten up and dragged to the gas chambers.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Horrific stories like those motivated Tucker to speak out.
In the aftermath of October 7th, she traveled to Israel often, meeting with released hostages and their families.
She danced with survivors of the Hamas attack on the Nova festival site that killed nearly 350 music lovers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To start it, to come more and more territories to our house.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Now, Tucker is releasing a documentary to introduce the world to some of the Israeli children who lost their parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I'm proud of you, Dad. You deserve it better.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): But Tucker says, her advocacy for Israel is unpopular in the entertainment business.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love your pen, Mark.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Where stars often use their platforms for political and social causes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Free the people of Palestine, please.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Nearly 500 celebrities and peace advocates have signed the artist for ceasefire petition, calling for an end to the war
that has killed tens of thousands in Gaza.
WAGMEISTER: We're seeing so many images come out of Gaza, of children being killed, of children suffering.
TUCKER: Of course, both sides are suffering. Of course. Of course, and it's terrible. But there's like this stigma. There's this thing about around
Israel calling for the release of the hostages as deemed as political.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): The petition does call for the release of the hostages, but Tucker sees it as a watered down attempt to include the other
side.
TUCKER: Why could they do a whole other list saying the hostages need to be released? There are Americans that are still there.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Speaking publicly on the Middle East is a fraught topic for any viewpoint, but remaining silent can be too.
A social media movement to call out celebrities who have stayed silent on the topic has its own hashtag and put pressure on many A-list stars.
TUCKER: Because I don't feel like this is political. I don't think it's political at all.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): We first met Tucker back in February at the Grammy Awards, where she wore a dress to call for the release of the hostages. She
told us she wished speaking out didn't come with so much risk.
WAGMEISTER: So do you ever think, I should go back to being an influencer who solely dances and sings and acts?
TUCKER: Would it be easier? Yes. But I can never imagine going back. If you have influence and you're not using it for what you believe in and standing
for what you believe in, what's the point?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister joins us now live from Los Angeles.
And Montana really using her huge platform to spread this message and obviously focus on the continued need for the release of these hostages and
ultimately a ceasefire in the war there.
Elizabeth, prior to this segment, you heard the read on the news, the breaking news this hour about TikTok and a court ruling that the platform
will be banned for use in the United States if it's not sold by its parent company.
I know that Montana Tucker also has criticism about the role of TikTok and the spreading of misinformation and some of the pushback she's on the
receiving end of. What more did she say about that?
WAGMEISTER: That's right. So TikTok is obviously the platform where Montana really exploded and the reason why she is such a big social media star.
But since she has started to speak out since October 7th, calling for the release of the hostages, she told me that she has seen a difference in her
content when she post about Israel versus say her dance video.
She says that her dance videos regularly will get millions of views and that some of her Israel posts will only get a mere few hundred views, which
one you have between nine and 10 million followers on TikTok. That's obviously not a lot.
Now I asked Montana, I said, have you approached TikTok about this? You're one of their top creators. Have you asked them about this engagement and
what's going on? And she said that she has and that they say that they don't see any problems.
[12:55:03]
Now I have to tell you, it's not just Montana. Since October 7th, with different content creators speaking out about the conflict in the Middle
East, TikTok has faced criticism and some heavy questioning about whether their algorithm is manipulating certain keywords related to this war,
specifically anti-Israel keywords.
Now, the criticism got so loud, Bianna, that TikTok actually issued a formal statement last year. I want to read you part of that. They strongly
denied any manipulation to their algorithm related to the war.
They say, quote, attitudes among young people skewed toward Palestine long before TikTok existed. Support for Israel as compared to sympathy for
Palestine has been lower among younger Americans for some time.
So basically saying there that young people have more sympathy for Palestine. It has nothing to do with what TikTok is doing.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Elizabeth Wagmeister, thank you so much and thank you for, again, shining a voice to the need for the release of those hostages
and 100 remain held in Gaza and the continued push for a ceasefire deal as well.
That does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: And I am Zain Asher. Bianna will be right back with "AMANPOUR" after this quick break.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, I will.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
