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One World with Zain Asher
Officials Try To Stop Dangerous Misinformation; At Least 24 Killed As Wildfires Burn In Los Angeles County; Red Flags Warnings In Effect Through Wednesday; Trump Cabinet Picks Begin Confirmation Hearings This Week; Ukraine Says It Captured Two North Korean Soldiers; Source: U.S. Officials Now See Gaza Ceasefire Deal In Sight; India's Maha Kumbh Mela Festival Begins; Judge OK's The Release Of Special Counsel Report On Trump Election Interference Case. Aired 12-p ET
Aired January 13, 2025 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:28]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Los Angeles faces a second week of deadly fires. ONE WORLD starts right now.
We are live across the city with the latest on the human toll this disaster has taken.
Plus, Capitol Hill is preparing for a blitz of confirmation hearings that will shape the incoming Trump administration.
And with Donald Trump taking office in a week, negotiators race to cement a ceasefire and hostage release deal between Israel and Hamas.
Hello, everyone, live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Zain is off today. You are watching ONE WORLD.
Those powerful winds that have fueled days of wildfires in Los Angeles are back in the forecast. This is the view from a California Air National Guard
jet over Pacific Palisades. As you can see there, no clouds, just smoke.
Officials described this week's weather as extremely critical. The worst winds, however, won't be in the active fire zones, but the danger there
will still be high. Six days of wildfires have claimed at least 24 lives and destroyed more than 12,000 structures. At last check, 92,000 people
remain under mandatory evacuation orders.
Meanwhile, California's governor has launched a website to fight rampant misinformation about the wildfires. One example is the false notion that
L.A. County's fire department is turning away help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY MARRONE, LOS ANGELES COUNTY FIRE CHIEF: I did want to dispel one rumor. The LA County Fire Department has never turned down any offers for
mutual aid assistance and resources.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Stephanie Elam joins us now from Malibu, California.
And the fire chief spoke just moments ago, giving more important updates to residents there. What else did he say?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think a huge part of what's going to give a lot of people a lot of relief is the fact that the evacuations are
now under 100,000. And then some others that beyond that who are in warnings.
But, look, this is still a very active fire scene and we're waiting to see what's going to happen today as the winds pick up. And you can see the
damage that is here. This is just one spot off of the Pacific Coast Highway.
And if you look down the highway, you can see. that there's definitely not a lack of aid coming into this area. You see -- I've seen fire trucks from
Utah, from Colorado, I believe I saw. I've even seen fire trucks coming from where I grew up in Northern California drive by here.
So this is a constant active highway here on the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu. And this is a huge part of what's happening is getting these
firefighters into position and prepared as we are waiting for these winds to pick up, which right now there are already pretty solid gust right now,
I can even tell you that.
So this is part of what we're going to be keeping our eyes on. This is why they're putting firefighters that were in the canyons back that way where
we saw the Palisades fire burning over the weekend. And they were really able to get a really good handle on over the weekend.
But the concern is that these winds could make those gains on containment precarious. And so what they're telling people, even though some people
would really like to get back into some of these evacuation zones, they're saying it's too early to do that because, A, you've got toxic ash.
Everything that's inside of a house when it burns, all the chemicals, the fuels, all of that, it becomes very small little particles and you can be
breathing it in. And they don't want people back there going through that.
And on top of it, in other parts, like in the Eaton Fire, in Altadena, they're going block by block, like it's a grid, and looking and making sure
that there's no other people who've lost their lives that are there.
So they don't want people marching through that while they're trying to meticulously make sure they account for every life before people can go
back and look through and see if maybe one heirloom item is still there.
So it's a very long process. It's going to take a long time. And it's a lot of hurry up and waiting for the people who are wanting to know what the
condition of their property is. It's just a very large scale operation at this point, Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Yes, it's very grim to hear the fire chief there put into perspective, obviously, acknowledging the concern and frustration of so
many residents who had to flee their homes that want to come back and see what they can salvage, but then reminding them that they are still in the
recovery and rescue mode. They basically are looking for more victims who have lost their lives, perhaps in these tragic fires. Now 24 deaths
confirmed thus far.
[12:05:09]
Stephanie Elam, thank you so much.
Let's bring in the chief deputy of the Los Angeles County Fire Department, Jon O'Brien. Thank you so much for joining us during this very important
time for you now.
As the chief said earlier this morning that they are absolutely better prepared for the coming winds that are expected to reach up to 70, 80 miles
per hour. Explain to us how exactly you feel you are better prepared this time around.
JON O'BRIEN, CHIEF DEPUTY, EMERGENCY OPERATIONS LA COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENT: Good morning and thank you for having me. We are in a better position,
given the number of resources that we have in the Southern California area on both the Palisades and Eaton Fire, as you've been talking about with
your viewers and we get that aerial view of what's going on.
Both of these fires are looking really good right now in terms of not a lot of active fire front and not a lot of growth in overall acreage within the
last 24 hours as the crews are starting to get a handle. And we had that nice period where the weather has been cooperating with us.
But we're certainly concerned about what the upcoming 48 hours brings. Once again, the National Weather Service has issued another particularly
dangerous red flag warning for many areas here within Los Angeles and Ventura counties.
Some of those areas impact current fire areas and others skirt the edges of others, which brings up particular concern for both new starts, as well as
flare ups on the existing fires.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And walk us through again where exactly are the most high- risk locations right now that you're most concerned about.
O'BRIEN: Currently, based on what the National Weather Service is predicting the most high risk areas are going to be, the grapevine coming
down the I-5 corridor from the Kern County, L.A. County border, in through the Santa Clarita Valley, much of the San Fernando Valley, as well as the
western side of the San Gabriel Valley, and then our Santa Monica Mountains communities.
So much of western L.A. County is where we're going to see those particularly dangerous situations occur, with wind gas reaching up to 70
miles an hour, which is not as high, but it's pretty darn close to what we saw the night both of these fires started.
GOLODRYGA: And looking for any sort of kernel of hope, while being very realistic about the perils that continue to lie ahead, I mean, Stephanie
Elam picked up on the fact that it's just 92,000 residents that are under mandatory evacuation order. We were talking numbers of over 100,000 in the
last few days.
Do you have a sense that those numbers will continue to decrease in the days ahead?
O'BRIEN: Certainly, those numbers will decrease in the days ahead, provided that we have new fire starts in this upcoming particularly dangerous Santa
Ana wind event does not cause any significant growth on these existing fires.
You know, both fires, I've attended the operational briefings for both the fires this morning. They're looking very good, but Mother Nature can
sometimes have her own way of dictating where we go with these things in the future.
GOLODRYGA: Can you speak to, sadly, what's become our living reality in news cycles like this, especially with breaking news, and that is the issue
of disinformation and misinformation?
We heard the chief speak to that earlier. But if you could put into a picture for us why it is so important and the dangers that lie in people
believing some of the information that's put out there that's not accurate.
O'BRIEN: Well, certainly. So first off, I mean, it's a double-edged sword. We want to get information out as quickly as possible, especially in the
case of some of these wildfires, which become quickly and rapidly moving wildland fires in which folks will only have moments to seconds to make
that critical decision as to whether they are going to evacuate or not.
We encourage everyone to evacuate in the event of a wildfire in their community. And we rely on wireless emergency alerts and folks staying tune
to reliable, trusted sites such as networks as yourself. AM radio becomes a critical component, especially in many of those areas that might be
impacted by public power safety shutoffs, in which many residents in our communities will lose electricity, which therefore means they're not going
to be able to stay tuned to T.V.s, they might lose cell phone service.
So we encourage everyone, you know, recognize every vehicle in this nation has an AM radio and it is critical for that communication your trusted
sources to know what is going on at these times of heightened fire danger when we need people to react and react quickly in order to get out of
harm's way.
GOLODRYGA: In terms of the alert system that had some issues last week that sent out wrong information, we had one of your colleagues on who -- while
apologizing for that mishap, reiterated the importance of residents there to maintain those alerts, make sure they're active because they are so
crucial.
[12:10:12]
How often are people receiving -- are residents receiving alerts?
O'BRIEN: So we have our policies set up. So especially when we're in this heightened period of Santa Ana wind danger, if we have a Santa Ana wind
driven fire that starts in its incipient or early stages, we will work with our counterparts of the County Office of Emergency Management to identify
geographic coordinates to send an initial warning out to folks, letting them know that there's a fast moving wildland fire in their area.
Get to those trusted local media networks that we kind of talked about, whether it be through the county's website, lacounty.gov/emergency. Or if
they don't have that internet access, tuning into AM radio for that news source.
And we push that out as soon as we can, just to give folks that perspective and heads up because, you know, units responding, it's going to take them a
moment to get there, get their feet on the ground and figure out specifically where the fire's going, what it's doing.
And we want to make sure we give everyone as much opportunity as we can to get an early start on things before those official evacuation orders get
into play.
And I can tell you on the Franklin Fire, which we had over in the Malibu area in early December, the Palisades Fire, which we had, and the Eaton
Fire, which both started last week, those alerts were used and they were used successfully. And I can actually say that they saved thousands of
lives.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. It is crucial to heed those warnings and make sure people follow instructions that they are provided with. They literally can save
lives.
Chief Deputy Jon O'Brien, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for everything that you are doing.
O'BRIEN: You're welcome. And just a reminder, everyone, stay safe, especially as we move into this upcoming wind event, which is predicted to
last from Tuesday morning at 4:00 A.M. Pacific through Wednesday afternoon at noon Pacific. So thank you again. Take care.
GOLODRYGA: Absolutely. Thank you.
And for more on the expected weather this week, let's go to meteorologist Allison Chinchar for the forecast.
So, Allison, as you just heard from the chief there, is that real window of concern the next 24 hours, Tuesday to Wednesday?
ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. I mean that's -- we're already going to start to see those winds begin to pick up today. So I don't by any
means mean that we're just going to have calm winds today. We're going to slowly start to see it tick up, but then they really get to those dangerous
levels once we get to Tuesday and Wednesday of this week.
So you have wind advisories, that's the orange color here where those wind gusts will get up to around 50 to 55 miles per hour.
Then beginning tomorrow at 4:00 A.M, it transitions to this redder color here that's the high wind warning where they could see those wind gusts of
60 to 70 miles per hour. So you have the red flag warnings in effect. All of this area you see here in pink.
Now the red flag warning takes into account the wind, but also just how dry the air is. The humidity levels expected to be about 10 percent, possibly
even lower in a few spots.
But embedded within this red flag warning, you have these three outlined areas right here. These are considered particularly dangerous situations,
even within that red flag warning.
And you will notice that all three of the fires are within the red flag warning area, but you also have one of the fires directly located inside of
those particularly dangerous situation outlined areas.
So this is exceptionally concerning for that fire, specifically because it's going to make it even more difficult for the firefighters to really
get a good hold on that fire.
Again, you can see behind me the numbers ticking up as we go into Tuesday and into Wednesday before starting to come back down at least a little bit
by late Wednesday night.
Here's a look at those three fires that we talked about. The containment numbers are still going up. And we hope to keep bringing those numbers up,
especially before we get to that marker on Tuesday when those winds really get to extreme levels.
The other thing they've been battling, it's not just the wind component, but just how dry everything is. Because as those fires rage over these
areas, that ground, the vegetation that's there is completely dry, and that becomes ideal fuel for these fires and allows them to spread a lot quicker
across a dry ground.
Now, when you look at the amount of rain, since October 1st, the L.A. area has only had three one hundredths of an inch of rain. Normally, they would
have at least four and a half inches of rain by this point in time, especially considering January.
January itself is the second wettest month of the year for this area, and they've had no measurable rain around L.A.
You look back a year ago, January 9th of 2024, this is the state of California. No part of California was under -- and except for areas of
drought.
Now you fast forward to this year, the tan color, that's a moderate drought, the orange color severe drought. So you've started to see more and
more of these areas tick up into those drought categories, simply because of the fact that we have not had rain.
When you go forward into the forecast, it doesn't look that much better. In fact, every single one of the next seven days, there is no significant rain
chance whatsoever on the map.
[12:15:08]
The only bright spot is that by the time we get to the end of the week, we do at least start to see those temperatures coming back down and the
humidity levels begin to go back up.
It's not a lot. But at this point, I think those firefighters will take absolutely any help from Mother Nature that they can possibly get.
GOLODRYGA: Absolutely. They've been braving it now for a week now, putting their lives on the line there. And as you said, we hope to see those
containment percentages continue to rise as well.
Meteorologist Allison Chinchar, thank you.
And for more information about how you can help Los Angeles area wildfire victims, go to cnn.com/impact.
Still to come for us, we have the Trump cabinet's picks will be running the U.S. government head to Capitol Hill for confirmation hearings. Will
Republicans come together to support the most controversial nominees?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Well, the U.S. Capitol is getting all dressed up for its big day. Exactly one week from now, Donald Trump will be inaugurated as the
47th president of the United States. Preparations are well underway with flags, banners and chairs all being set up.
And Republicans in the U.S. Senate are trying to make sure Trump hits the ground running. They will begin confirmation hearings for Trump's cabinet
picks starting tomorrow.
Most are expected to have a relatively easy time with confirmation, as Republicans do control the Senate.
But one of the controversial picks will be in the spotlight. Pete Hegseth, Trump's choice for Secretary of Defense, will appear before the Armed
Services Committee Tuesday morning. Now, he's battling allegations of excessive drinking and mistreatment of women.
Joining us now to talk about the confirmation hearings coming up is CNN political senior reporter Stephen Collinson.
Stephen, it's good to see you. And I guess one could argue the fact that Pete Hegseth has even made it thus far is pretty indicative about the
likelihood of his confirmation at this point, no?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Yes. And there was a point just before Christmas when I thought that he wouldn't survive the week as
all these allegations were mounting up. There was increasing concern among Republican senators about his pending nomination. And then Trump
intervened, backed him publicly, and it completely changed the equation.
So, I think at this point, Senators -- Republican senators are looking for ways to support Trump's nominees rather than to find a way to go against
the president. I think that's a sign of president-elect Trump's strength in the Republican Party and a desire by everyone on the Republican side to get
a fast start to this administration.
[12:20:11]
But having said that, the Hegseth confirmation hearing will be an early sign of just how much Trump wants to shake up the United States government
and the world. And if there are major errors, I think that will compound questions about whether Hegseth, for personal reasons and because he
doesn't have the kind of high-level national security experience that you'd expect from someone taking this position, whether he is really qualified
for the job.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Many of Trump's allies and even his incoming chief of staff have sort of explained it this way by acknowledging that maybe he doesn't
have the experience necessary, but it's the deputies around him, those that will be doing the day-to-day work, that do have the experience and thus in
some ways are more important to getting the day-to-day grind done where Pete Hegseth would just represent the shakeup that Trump campaigned on and
one could argue won on.
Does that logic make sense to you?
COLLINSON: I tend to think that in Washington, agencies and White Houses reflect the person at the top. That's been my experience. So if you have
somebody that is out of their depth or who is overtly political, that tends to trickle down. So I'm not sure why I agree with the contention that these
people are making.
Having said that, there are a lot of very well-qualified, smart, exceedingly loyal, ultra-MAGA officials that Trump is going to pull from
think tanks and elsewhere that weren't available to him during his first term.
So it's difficult to make a judgment on how things go in the second term based on the first term. But I think the cabinet picks, Pete Hegseth, Kash
Patel for FBI, Pam Bondi, the fallback pick for Attorney General after Matt Gaetz didn't make it.
These people are an explanation of exactly how Trump wants to govern. They're loyal, they're ultra-nationalistic and MAGA, the Make America Great
Again movement. And they're completely different from anything we've seen heading a lot of these agencies before.
And their outlandishness and the fact that many people think they're not qualified is exactly the point that Trump is trying to make.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. He views this in a sense a positive sign.
Stephen, we've spent a lot of time focusing on Pete Hegseth and his nomination. As you mentioned, there are other controversial names that are
up for these hearings as well and they include Tulsi Gabbard at DNI, RFK Jr. at HHS.
What are you hearing about the likelihood of their confirmations?
COLLINSON: Well, Tulsi Gabbard is an interesting one because she's had a major reversal. She was against some of the intelligence community's
capacity to eavesdrop on conversations or data from telephone calls, that kind of thing that the U.S. used to catch foreign terrorists.
She's now reversed her position on that, so she's trying to consolidate. And it appears that she's won over a number of Republican senators who had
expressed private doubts about her.
The RFK Jr. for Health and Human Services, I think that one still a little bit up in the air. They were -- he went around capitol hill last week and
he didn't get overly positive reviews from the kind of Republicans that he needs to support him.
So I think there are still real questions about his attitude to vaccines, whether he needs to kind of publicly repudiate some of his past skepticism
to get the confirmation votes that he needs. He can only lose a couple in the Republican Senate and still be confirmed. So these aren't a done deal.
But as I said, I think senators are really looking for a way to support the new president. And it would take a brave Republican senator at this point
to come out against one of Trump's nominees.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Stephen Collinson, always good to see you. Thank you.
COLLINSON: Thanks.
GOLODRYGA: Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, is offering to release two North Korean soldiers if North Korean leader Kim Jong Un can arrange
the release of Ukrainian troops currently held in Russia.
Ukraine announced on Saturday that it had captured the North Koreans in Russia's Kursk region. CNN's Clare Sebastian has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Zelenskyy's offer to swap the North Korean troops for Ukrainians, you know, on one -- on the one hand is
genuine. He definitely does want to secure more prisoner swaps and bring Ukrainian prisoners of war home.
But I think in large part, this is also about trying to push Russia and Pyongyang into admitting that this is actually happening, that North Korean
forces are fighting alongside Russian forces in the Kursk region, neither Moscow nor Pyongyang have even acknowledged that this is happening, even
though Ukraine and the West have been saying that it's happening for several months now.
[12:25:15]
Again, on Monday, we got a carefully worded no comment from the Kremlin on this offer from President Zelenskyy. Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin spokesman,
saying, we cannot comment on the statement in any way. We do not know what is true here or who offered what to whom, so being very careful there.
But this is important for Ukraine on the one hand because it shows to the West and the incoming Trump administration that this war is not a local
issue, that it is expanding and Russia is bringing in this second country to be actively involved in the fighting.
And secondly, to show that Russia, as Zelenskyy has said, can no longer manage without side help so to try to do damage essentially to the
reputation of the Russian armed forces here.
And Ukraine is presenting evidence by showing this video purportedly of these captured soldiers. That Russia is not just not commenting on this but
actively trying to hide the presence of these North Korean soldiers on the battlefield.
The security services claiming that one of the soldiers had a Russian military ID that he was carrying. President Zelenskyy also saying that it
was quite a major effort for the troops to capture these soldiers alive because he claims Russia tends to execute them to avoid them being taken
into captivity.
So they are sort of presenting this evidence that Russia is really trying to hide the presence of North Koreans on the battlefield in Kursk.
So look, we cannot verify that video or the nationalities of the soldiers involved, but this offers potentially a glimpse into this murky partnership
between Russia and North Korea here. And one that is critical, of course, for Ukraine as it tries to launch this new push in the Kursk region,
presumably to give itself more leverage in holding onto a part of Russian territory as it goes into what may be an accelerated timeline towards
negotiations under President-elect Trump.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Clare Sebastian for that report.
Still to come for us, sources tell CNN there's progress on a Gaza ceasefire and hostage exchange deal. We take a closer look at what that deal might
look like, just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:30:54]
GOLODRYGA: Welcome back to ONE WORLD, I'm Bianna Golodryga.
It's an all-out race against Mother Nature when fighting those deadly and destructive wildfires in California. L.A. firefighters are feverishly
working to contain as much as possible before fierce winds kick up once again. That could undo the progress that was made over the weekend.
The death toll now stands at 24, with dozens more still missing. The fires have destroyed thousands of homes and businesses. This as FEMA says that it
will take some time for hard-hit areas to bounce back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEANNE CRISWELL, FEMA ADMINISTRATOR: Yes. I mean, the complexity of removing the debris from this fire is going to be significant. And it's
going to take a long time. It's going to take more than six months to remove this debris.
We'll get the majority out. California will get the majority of out in that timeframe, but it's going to take some time to be able to get everything
out so they can start rebuilding and make sure that it is safe for people to come back in and start rebuilding those homes.
It's just catastrophic the amount of destruction that I saw when I was there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Joining me now is CNN's Veronica Miracle, who's in Altadena, California.
Veronica, what are you seeing there? And talk about the anticipation, concern about the increased winds expected in just the next 24 hours.
VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Bianna, we heard from authorities who said, do not let your guard down because they are very concerned about
this next wind event that's going to last through at least Wednesday. They're concerned that the winds will whip up new fires potentially or have
the fire burn even bigger in certain areas.
In fact, from Ventura all the way to San Diego counties, authorities are saying basically all of Southern California needs to be prepared to
evacuate.
Now, we are standing in an area where the Eaton Fire burned, where there is a total mandatory evacuation still. And you could see the devastation
beyond devastation behind me.
In fact, look at this. This is a car that really all that's left is the exterior. If you peer inside, the seats, everything. All of the internal
components have been completely reduced to ash. You can see just how intensely these fires burned.
But also how precarious the winds are because look at this, you see all the devastation here. And then just across the street, homes still standing,
completely untouched. Just incredible.
Now here in this neighborhood, authorities are working very quickly to try and make this safe so that people can come back. People are trying to come
back to see if their homes have burned or if they're still standing, if they can get medication, maybe find some pets that are missing.
But authorities right now, they are asking people to be patient, not only because situations like this is going on where you have crews working to
reinstall power lines, make sure that downed power lines are all cleaned up.
But there are also investigators who are doing checks to see if there are people who are missing, possibly dead in this area. They're going grid by
grid to see if they are finding remains. They are finding remains and authorities are also concerned that there will be more remains discovered.
So that is really what's happening here.
And then the emotional toll that this next wind event is taking on people, they're exhausted, they're scared. A lot happening here in L.A. County in
the greater Southern California area.
Back to you, Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: A lot happening and a long road ahead in terms of recovery and cleanup, that is for sure.
Veronica Miracle, thank you.
MIRACLE: Absolutely.
GOLODRYGA: Now to the Israel-Hamas war. A Hamas official says the group is, quote, very close to an agreement with Israel for a hostage exchange and
ceasefire deal in Gaza, which has been decimated by the war.
The Hamas official says several sticking points remain in the talks currently underway in Qatar. A source familiar with the talks says Israel
and Hamas are working through a final draft. The Israeli foreign minister also expressed optimism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIDEON SA'AR, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: Progress was made. We see some progress in the negotiations. Israel wants a hostage deal. Israel is
working with our American friends in order to achieve a hostage deal. And soon we will know whether the other side wants the same thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[12:35:20]
GOLODRYGA: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and U.S. President Joe Biden discussed the negotiations on Sunday. Despite ongoing efforts to
secure a ceasefire, the violence in Gaza continues.
Authorities say that more than 40 people were killed in Israeli airstrikes on the northern part of the enclave today alone, and dozens more were
injured.
CNN's Arlette Saenz has more on where the potential ceasefire now stands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: senior White House officials are taking on a cautiously optimistic tone as they are hoping that a
ceasefire agreement and hostage release could be within their grasp in the coming weeks.
President Biden is hoping they can secure some type of an agreement before he leaves office. And President-elect Donald Trump has also said he wants
to see an agreement before his swearing in on January 20th.
Now, Deputy National Security Adviser, Jon Finer, said that several outstanding issues have been resolved, though he not detail exactly what
those issues were, but he did seem to indicate that there could be some hope that a new deal could be on the horizon. Take a listen.
JON FINER, U.S. DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: There has been significant progress made. I am not going to sit here and make predictions.
This has been a long time coming. We think a deal has been on the table that the parties should be able to agree to for quite some time. Hamas, up
till now, has been resistant and reluctant to actually take that deal.
Some of the gaps have narrowed. And we very much hope that this does come together and we're going to stay on top of it. But I'm not going to sit
here and predict exactly when it or where it will come together.
SAENZ: It comes as U.S. officials have really been trying to push these negotiations along in recent weeks.
President Biden spoke by phone with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday about the prospects for a deal. And we've also learned
that Netanyahu met with Trump's incoming Middle East envoy, Steve Witkoff, on Saturday.
A source familiar with the process, said that really Trump is serving as an incentive in these talks. He has warned that there would be all hell to pay
if there isn't an agreement by the time he takes office.
Witkoff recently said that the president-elect wants to see these hostages back home, but at least if that doesn't physically happen before January
20th, he at least wants to see an agreement on the table.
Now, for President Biden's part, he is set to deliver a major foreign policy speech today at the State Department, as he's really looking to
cement his legacy on that front. And that conflict between Israel and Hamas is a key part of Biden's foreign policy work. He's really spent the last 15
months trying to find an end to this conflict, trying to get those hostages back home.
Senior administration officials are hoping that that could potentially be within grasp in the coming week.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Thanks to Arlette.
Time now for The Exchange, my conversation with Aaron David Miller. He's a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and a
former Middle East negotiator with the U.S. State Department. He joins me now live in Washington.
Aaron, we have been here before, and we have come close to a deal and to have it only fall apart. I'm just wondering, given the timing of the
inauguration next week, given that we're hearing that both the incoming Trump administration and the Biden administration seem to be working quite
well in tandem together to get this across the finish line.
Do you have a sense from what you're hearing that this deal could actually be the one that we could be seeing hostages come home and the fighting come
to an end in the coming days?
AARON DAVID MILLER, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: Thanks for having me, Bianna.
Look, nobody ever lost money betting against Israeli-Palestinian success in negotiations.
That said, I think we're probably closer than we've ever been. And negotiations usually succeed or fail based on urgency. Are the two parties
in a more in a hurry now than they have been over the last year plus since last November, which was the last 2023, the last exchange of 105 Israeli
hostages for 300-plus Palestinian prisoners?
I think we're closer now because Hamas actually needs an agreement. They have nothing to show over the last 15 months other than death and
destruction.
And the way this agreement is structured, they will get considerable benefits. They'll get an asymmetrical number of Palestinian prisoners, many
who have been convicted or charged with killing Israelis. They'll get a six-week ceasefire. They're negotiating as to whether or not the Israelis
will allow a significant number of Palestinians to move from Central Gaza back to their homes in the north. And they'll get a surging of humanitarian
assistance, which is desperately needed by the Palestinian population of Gaza.
As far as Mr. Netanyahu is concerned, I think he's been emboldened by Israeli recent military successes. He's got additional padding in his
coalition, should he cut this deal out of concern that the two extremist ministers might bolt.
[12:40:09]
Plus, I think there's no -- there's no doubt that there's a Trump factor here. I mean, the reality is that even though the Biden administration is
doing most of the negotiation, they don't have any more leverage, either on Hamas or on Netanyahu. Trump does.
And I think both Hamas and Israel are uncertain, frankly, as to how or whether or in what way Donald Trump would comport himself with respect to
this issue.
So I think there's a moment here, whether it's pre-January 20th or post, hard to say. But for the hostages, their families, and for the people of
Gaza, it's a long time coming, Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Some 98 hostages still being held there. Several of them American citizens as well. And as you noted, the fighting, the war has just
decimated Gaza over the past year.
We heard Jon Finer. We heard Jake Sullivan over the weekend, again, reiterating that they feel like a deal could be imminent, but they've been
here before, and once again highlighting the cooperation between the two administrations.
But what was notable to me from what Jake Sullivan said in one of the interviews over the weekend was the role that Donald Trump has played here,
the impact of his threats that all hell will break loose having on this hostage negotiation ceasefire deal moving forward. And here's what he said.
I've been struck by this phrase of all hell to pay or all hell to break loose. If you're a Hamas fighter sitting in Gaza, I think it's fair to say
you've seen hell rain down on you for 14 months. The entire broader Hamas network has been badly degraded and your sponsor, Iran, so badly weakened.
The amount of firepower and military pressure brought to bear on Hamas has been pretty dramatic. I think that's the cumulative effect combined with
this looming transition period that has created a circumstance where we can get a deal.
What do you make of that analysis from Jake Sullivan?
MILLER: Well, I think, analytically, factually, it's absolutely accurate. I think Hamas is more interested now than ever, in large part because of
their weakened status. Matter of fact they know Iran is on their back foot, his bullets hollered out, there'll be no cavalry coming, just the IDF
continuing to operate in Gaza at their expense.
That said, I think that Jake Sullivan sort of tread a thin -- a fine line between basically saying, yes, those comments that there's all hell to pay
is having an impact on the negotiations. I'm not sure he believes that.
But I do think that without a doubt, the -- there's enormous uncertainty, both on the part of Hamas and particularly the part of Mr. Netanyahu, who
wants to change the channel here. He wants to interest Donald Trump not so much in Israeli-Palestinian issues, but in Iran.
And I think by clearing the deck on this issue, he stands a better chance of gaining some currency with the incoming administration and perhaps
shifting or accentuating the Trump administration's tougher policies with respect to Iran, maybe even military action.
So I think everybody has an agenda here. But for the first time in 14 or 15 months, there's a confluence of interests, which may in fact lead to an
agreement.
Just one additional point. We need to be very sober here. This is not an all for all deal. This is not a deal that is going to somehow inevitably
lead to the end of the war in Gaza, freeing all the hostages and the end of Israeli military activity or Hamas' capacity to act as an insurgent. It
won't.
This deal, if it gets through phase one, will see a limited return of hostages, a six-week ceasefire, more aid into Gaza. But Hamas will still
hold the bulk of the hostages, largely the Israeli military, at a military age.
The Israelis will still be operating in Gaza. And it's clear to me that hell to pay or no hell to pay, Donald Trump is going to be left with a
significant problem on his hands come January 20th relating to Gaza.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And he's made clear this is a war he does not want to inherit. But as you note, this is not a one-term deal. This is a two-phased
deal. And perhaps once you get through the first phase, it is phase two that may be the hardest to reach.
Aaron David Miller, one step at a time here. As we noted, we've been here before. Let's just get through step one. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
MILLER: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:45:22]
GOLODRYGA: And this just breaking into CNN. A judge has cleared the way for the release of Special Counsel Jack Smith's report on Donald Trump's 2020
election interference case. You'll recall the president-elect has fought to keep the report out of the public hands.
Smith delivered it to Attorney General Merrick Garland last week. Well now, Judge Aileen Cannon has OK'd the release of the unclassified part of the
report. And we'll have much more on this in just a moment.
But first to other news around the world. The world's largest religious gathering is currently underway in India. Millions of devout Hindus have
come together to mark the beginning of the Maha Kumbh Mela.
Over the next six weeks, 400 million people are expected to attend the festival on the river banks of the city of Prayagraj. CNN's Polo Sandoval
has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Excitement lights up the night as fire dancers celebrate ahead of the Maha Kumbh Mela festival in
India.
The next six weeks, the City of Prayagraj will be the center of spiritual devotion in Hinduism. Attracting an expected 400 million pilgrims from
India and around the world.
They bathe in the confluence of three sacred rivers in the largest religious festival on Earth. It's a trip of a lifetime for many devotees.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): A visit here helps cleanse sins of several lives. It was by God's grace that we could come here. I had
never seen something as wonderful as this. Never been to such a massive festival before.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): The Maha Kumbh Mela, or festival of the sacred pictures, is held every 12 years and is considered holier than the Kumbh
Mela festival that occur roughly every three years. Pilgrims take a dip in the waters to wash away their sins and receive salvation from the cycle of
life and death.
And though it's a spiritual festival, there are some very earthly logistical challenges to hosting such a large event. Four thousand hectares
of land have been transformed into a pop-up city with thousands of tents, kitchens and porta-potty set up for the visitors.
More than 40,000 police personnel and cyber-crime experts are part of a web of surveillance. And authorities say AI will be used to monitor the crowds.
Indian police say they've been conducting security and rescue drills to prepare for any emergencies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There is full security. As you can see, we are alert and prepared. The area is covered by cameras and our foot
soldiers in civilian clothing will be present on the ground as well.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): The festival runs until February 26th and having it run smoothly without any major security issues would be a win for Indian
Prime Minister Narendra Modi, was promised to showcase India's religious and cultural symbols to appeal to his Hindu base.
[12:50:10]
Polo Sandoval, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Returning to our breaking news. A judge has cleared the way for the release of Special Counsel Jack Smith's report on Donald Trump's 2020
election interference case.
Paula Reid joins us now from Washington, D.C. Paula, this news just coming in from Judge Aileen Cannon. The judge overseeing the documents case in
Florida had been always seen to be much more deferential to Donald Trump.
Talk about the significance of this decision. Did it come as a surprise?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: A little bit of a surprise. You really never know what Aileen Cannon is going to do because
of the course of this investigation. She has really shocked a lot of legal experts with some of the things that she's decided. She was sort of
embarrassingly overturned by an appellate court early on when she sided with the Trump team over having someone to go through documents, a so-
called special master in the classified documents case.
And then she really shocked people over the summer when she tossed the entire case saying that the Special Counsel, Jack Smith, was not properly
or legitimately appointed.
So in this case, the Justice Department was if she would try to block the report that Smith did on his election interference case. That's a case
that's been up here in Washington, D.C., overseen by a different judge.
They were looking to try to see if she would try to block both of these reports. He did two, one on each investigation. Or if she would just be
focused on the one that deals with her case, classified documents. That one's not going to be released anytime soon. That case is still active with
Trump's co-defendants. Trump's case has been dismissed. But now, we're watching to see if the Trump team will try to fight the release of this
January 6th report.
Now, sources on both sides of this case tell me, there's not a lot of new information in this report. We've had the January 6th Committee. They had a
report. There's been an indictment. There have been a lot of releases of evidence and information related to January 6th efforts to subvert the
election.
So we don't expect there to be a lot of news in here, but the Trump team still appears poised to try to fight this all the way to the Supreme Court
and block the release of this report.
And look, even if they don't prevail in the courts, there is an aspect to this where they can just try to run out the clock because of course Trump
takes over. He goes back to the White House, takes over the Justice Department on Monday.
So we're waiting to see if the Trump team will continue to fight the release of this report, even though neither side believes there's really
any news.
[12:55:06]
The Trump team has been fighting this case and the special counsel and the Justice Department for about three years now. And they show no signs of
letting up.
GOLODRYGA: And so when can we expect to see whether or not? I mean, is it just a matter of when Trump's team decides to respond and whether or not
they want to appeal? Is that what we're waiting for?
REID: Yes. So we're looking to see what they do. Also how the Justice Department interprets this. Because earlier today, the Justice Department
believed they had to wait until later today. That's when the deadline that Cannon had previously set would pass.
There's also active litigation at the 11th Circuit, the appellate court overseeing Cannon's district. So a lot of open questions were waiting to
see what happens in other courts, waiting to see what else gets filed to figure out when we might possibly see this report.
Now, if it is not released before Trump takes office, it will likely only be released through Freedom of Information Act requests from journalists or
other outlets.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Paula Reid always keeping us busy. Thank you so much. We'll be watching.
And that does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. Thanks so much for watching this hour. I'm Bianna Golodryga. "AMANPOUR" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:00:00]
END
