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HHS Nominee RFK Jr. Faces Questioning At Confirmation Hearing; RFK Jr.: U.S. Food Supply Is Poisoning The American People; RFK Jr. Questioned About Measles Outbreak In Samoa. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired January 29, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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(CNN U.S. SIMULCAST)

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BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York.

You've been listening to the first of two confirmation hearings for one of U.S. President Donald Trump's most controversial cabinet picks.

Senators have been grilling Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for more than two hours on why he should lead the Department of Health and Human Services. Things

got quite heated, a lot of direct questions about RFK Jr.'s previous comments and positions on controversial issues such as vaccines.

Let's go to CNN medical correspondent Meg Tirrell and Sunlen Serfaty on Capitol Hill to talk about what Kennedy has said so far.

And, Meg, a lot of questions, as I noted, about his controversial comments about vaccines, their efficacy. He came here today prepared with just an

answer, saying that he believes in -- I am pro-safety and that he believes in vaccines at this point.

Of course, given what he said in the past, that's raised some questions as to how committed he is to that stance and perhaps some of the damage that

was caused by, given his high-profile, his past comments.

Walk us through what stood out to you and do some fact checking if you can for us on this front.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. On the vaccines question in particular, I mean, this is the issue that is most closely associated with

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

You know, he was accused off the top from Senator Ron Wyden of, sort of, misrepresenting his own past statements around vaccines. And there was a

lot of focus on what happened in Samoa. There was a measles outbreak there in 2019 that was devastating. More than 80 people died during that

outbreak.

And Robert F. Kennedy Jr. visited the island around that time. He's been accused by people like Hawaiian Governor, Josh Green, who's a physician,

and who responded to that measles outbreak to help vaccinate people there.

He's been -- so Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has been accused of helping spread misinformation about vaccines that potentially contributed to the

devastation that was seen there.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. did make a statement that I heard from one health expert today about Samoa that was inaccurate. You know, he claimed that

measles -- those measles cases, that people who died were not actually measles, he said.

And I heard from Dr. Paul Offit, who's a vaccine scientist, at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, that those samples were tested and

were found to be a wild-type strain of measles. So that was one factual error or falsehood that was made.

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You know, he also talked about how Robert F. Kennedy Jr. claimed that health experts, he said, universally don't recommend that children get the

COVID vaccine.

Well, the CDC recommends that all children over the age of six months get an annual COVID shot. There is some debate over whether children need

boosters, but Dr. Offit also noted that children who haven't had any COVID vaccines should get a primary series. He said that is almost universally

agreed upon among health experts.

Now, there's also, of course, a lot of questions about his conflicts of interest. Of course, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has pledged to rid government

agencies of conflicts of interest in research. But, you know, a story came out from his own disclosures to the committees ahead of these hearings

about his interest in litigation around the HPV vaccine and how he's involved in a lawsuit.

And potentially, after he leaves office as HHS secretary, if he's confirmed, how he could potentially still benefit financially from that

lawsuit. Senator Elizabeth Warren pressed him on that and tried to get him to commit to not benefiting financially. So there was a lot of focus, of

course, on his involvement with vaccines.

But, you know, the senators also got into issues around abortion and the abortion pill, Mifepristone. That, of course, has come up a lot over the

last year. There's been a Supreme Court case around it. He said that President Trump had asked him to look into the safety of Mifepristone.

One senator, I believe it was Senator Hassan, held up a stack of paper and said, this is 40 studies that support the safety of Mifepristone. And so

there are questions, you know, what does it mean to study something that is accepted in the medical community to have been studied quite extensively?

There was also a really interesting exchange between him and Senator Bernie Sanders over whether healthcare is a human right. And Robert F. Kennedy,

Jr. sort of started to say, no, not in the same way that free speech is a human right. Because he said, for example, if you're a smoker for 20 years

and you get cancer, he started to imply, maybe you shouldn't be able to access healthcare in the same way as other people.

And Senator Sanders didn't allow him to continue down that line of questioning, but that was quite an interesting statement, it seemed to me,

Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And, Sunlen, it did seem that some of the more heated moments not surprisingly came from Democrats here, the majority of whom do

not feel that he is fit to lead a department as large as HHS, especially given his past stances on certain issues, comments that he's made related,

not only to vaccines but conspiracy theories.

He said that he was labeled as a conspiracy theorist because he's just questioning certain studies and thus being labeled as a conspiracy

theorist. There was one exchange about Lyme disease, whether previous comments that he'd made on a podcast referencing Lyme disease, saying that

he believed it was an engineered bioweapon. He said, I probably did say that. That stood out to me.

But, Sunlen, there are four doctors in the Senate. They all happen to be Republican. It was interesting to hear from one of them, Bill Cassidy of

Louisiana, ask him about his familiarity with very popular programs, Medicare, Medicaid, which make up the majority of the public spending

programs in HHS.

And it seemed as if he wasn't as familiar as one would expect some -- the head of a program like HHS to be.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's absolutely right, Bianna. I think your read on that correct is exactly correct. He seemed a

little uncomfortable with those specific questions from Senator Cassidy. And Senator Cassidy is one of those who met behind closed doors with RFK

Jr.

And after that meeting, just about a month ago, didn't signal which way he would vote for him. So he clearly is putting him on the spot today with

very detailed questions about the agency that he would lead potentially.

GOLODRYGA: Sunlen, I'm so sorry to have to cut you off. The hearing has resumed. That was a short -- shorter five-minute break than I had expected.

So hold that thought. Let's go back to the hearing and the questioning, and hopefully we'll have time to come back to you to address this really

important issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CONTINUED CONFIRMATION HEARING OF ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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GOLODRYGA: All right. We've been listening to Robert F. Kennedy Jr. answering a question, where it seems at least on this issue there is

support from both the right and the left on issue of combating chronic disease and processed foods in the United States.

Notably, that question did come from one of the four other U.S. medical doctors who happen to be in the U.S. Senate as well.

Let's go back to Sunlen Serfaty on Capitol Hill.

So, Sunlen, there you have an issue in an area where you have agreement from many on his dedication to fighting chronic disease and highly

processed foods in the United States.

But I want to go back and have you continue and finish your answer to the more controversial response he had with regards to Medicare, Medicaid, his

familiarity with a highly -- a highly popular program that serves about 100 million Americans, the elderly and low income where his question -- his

response to the question from Senator Cassidy left a lot of people wondering how familiar he really is with these programs.

SERFATY: That's absolutely right, Bianna. And I think that is, in essence, what many senators, the tactic that they're trying to take today is to

highlight his inexperience, the fact that he is not prepared to lead such a major agency, not the least of which all this background of what he said in

his record about vaccines, about abortion, but to actually look at his knowledge of the agency that he potentially would go on to lead.

To take a one step back here, we have had or we have heard so much about his vaccine stance, questions about abortion, food policy, agriculture.

But when you look at the math, that's certainly important here today, too, given the very close majority in the Senate, he can only stand to lose

three Republican senators. Now, that's assuming that all democratic senators will vote against his confirmation. And that's not a sure thing at

all. So there's a couple different ways to get the vote.

We have heard, leading into this hearing, some concerns from Republican senators about his past, about his rhetoric.

So the question is, does this first part of these two days of confirmation hearings help get those Republican senators over the finish line? But still

an open question, Bianna, at this moment.

GOLODRYGA: Sunlen Serfaty, thank you so much for covering this for us.

I want to go to Dr. Omer Awan, who's a senior public health contributor for Forbes and a columnist "MedPage Today." He joins me from Baltimore,

Maryland.

Dr. Awan, thank you so much for taking the time. I know you have been listening in on this hearing as well. Full disclosure, I believe you have

been highly critical of Robert F. Kennedy's appointment, Junior, appointment to head HHS in the past.

I'm wondering, given what you've heard from him today, walking back some of his previous comments and skepticism about vaccines, saying point blank

that he is not anti-vaccine. If any of your previous views have changed about his fitness for leading such a huge organization.

OMER AWAN, SENIOR PUBLIC CONTRIBUTOR, FORBES: Well, they haven't changed, Bianna. And the reason why is I think we have to evaluate him based on what

he's done over the last several years and what he has said over the last several years and decades. And he has continuously said that vaccines are

not effective. He's continuously propagated misinformation about vaccines saying that they cause autism. He's continuously said that vaccines can

cause chronic diseases.

I mean, this is not what the evidence shows and this is not what research shows. Research shows that vaccines save millions of lives. And if we look

at, even just the COVID-19 pandemic that's very fresh in all of our minds, research shows that the vaccine saved more than 14 million lives. I mean,

that's a huge, huge number and this is likely an underestimate for how many lives were saved.

So it's very concerning and deeply problematic. And this is why many public health officials and many physicians are very worried that, you know, RFK

may cause more harm than good.

GOLODRYGA: So they're worried, and I understand the concern. But is it -- is it also my understanding that because of his previous comments, one

should disregard what we've heard from him today as it relates to vaccines stating that he's not anti-vaccine?

AWAN: Well, we have to take the whole body of evidence. It's one thing to say something in front of a Senate confirmation hearing, but it's another

thing to talk decades upon decades about how vaccines are ineffective and how vaccines cause major devastating diagnoses that aren't in fact true.

And this misinformation will cause problems for the American people.

We're talking about safeguarding the health of millions and millions of Americans from an environmental lawyer who is not a scientist, quite

frankly. And, you know, decisions are supposed to be made based upon evidence.

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And he did say that he, you know, supports evidence and evidence-based medicines, but that's not what his record shows, unfortunately. You know,

even if you think about fluoride in water, you know, he's talking about removing fluoride from water.

And we know, through evidence, that, you know, fluoride is associated with decrease in oral cavities, this decrease in tooth decay. And according to

the American Dental Association, you know, it decreases tooth decay in 25 percent of, you know, adults and children.

So these are problematic things that will have devastating consequences for the American people.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Dr. Awan, we have been watching one of two hearings for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. The other scheduled for tomorrow in his confirmation

process to head the Department of Health and Human Services.

I appreciate you taking the time today and being patient listening to this testimony. Critical to hear from a medical physician as well getting your

thoughts and your concerns about what could happen with someone like Robert F. Kennedy Jr., given his past stances, leading such a large department,

will take the confirmation hearing going forward for the rest of the day, as well as tomorrow.

Thank you so much for tuning in. "AMANPOUR" is up next.

END