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One World with Zain Asher

Without Evidence, Trump Blames DEI For Midair Collision; Israel Releasing 110 Palestinian Prisoners; Confirmation Hearings For Trump's Picks For FBI Director, DNI; No Survivors After Midair Collision Near Washington, D.C.; Trump Baselessly Blames Democrats And Diversity For Plane Crash; Aired 12-1p ET

Aired January 30, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR: The pilot of the helicopter, the pilot of the plane, or air traffic control. And what the President of the United States

just did was round and round and round and round, again and again and again, conflate them all together and throw in the smokescreen of DEI. I've

never heard anything like it.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Richard, talk about the impact of a press conference like that and a president, really at this point, just

hypothesizing about what could have happened. It didn't seem like there was any more specific information that was relayed to him from what we heard

that he then relayed to reporters there that we don't know yet.

So talk about how this could impact the investigation itself at this point.

QUEST: The investigation itself, I hope it won't, because the investigation will be done by the NTSB. So unless political pressure is put on the NTSB,

which would be a truly egregious and devastating turn of events.

The NTSB's investigations are the gold standard in global aviation. So unless the NTSB is lent on to come up with some DEI conclusions.

But the damage here is what you're really asking. The damage here is twofold. One, it has politicized a plane crash within 24 hours of it

happening and we've never seen that in any way, whatsoever done before.

The rubric I've been told, and my bosses tell me, and I tell people don't speculate, don't speculate. Help people to understand but don't speculate.

The second damaging part in all of this is it will politicize on the DEI debate. There will be people in America who've heard half the truth, who've

not read the full story, who've chosen to listen to what the president say and basically say, well, it was those DEI policies, you know. Well, how'd

you know that? Well, I heard the president say. And I heard the Defense Secretary say.

When I listened to the Defense Secretary and the Transportation Secretary, they sounded like two men standing in a bar complaining about the ills of

the world. They did not sound like Secretaries of major departments whose sole job is to get to the basic truth of what happened.

Instead, they wanted to make political points, dress it up in a smokescreen of, well, I'm not saying but some people say and there is this policy.

We've got four years of this.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And it clearly didn't sound as though any of these from the president to the transportation secretary to the DOD secretary, any of them

seemingly taking responsibility for this, if anything it appears that they were casting blame and casting aspersions at their the predecessors.

QUEST: The danger here -- the danger here is that we normalize the abnormal. And whilst it's perfectly OK. The president can say what he

likes, the secretaries can say what they like. That's their prerogative.

But to normalize the abnormal, it is abnormal for a president and a secretary to come out and blame something completely irrelevant before we

have even the basic facts of what happened.

So for what we have just experienced, it is abnormal. And we now need to work on the implications whilst at the same time actually get to grips.

Because the more serious thing is, how did this crash happen?

GOLODRYGA: Right.

QUEST: And I promise you, it did not happen because of DEI policies on the FAI.

GOLODRYGA: Richard, this is an industry you cover closely for many years. Before I let you go, it is important to reiterate what one of the questions

asked of the --

QUEST: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: -- president was, and that is, is it safe for Americans to continue flying? The president said, yes, it is indeed safe.

Remind us about the last time we have seen a commercial airline crash. It has been a number of years. And remind us again of the safety standards in

place in the United States when it comes to air traffic.

QUEST: Every crash is boiled down to a Swiss cheese series of events, where something happens and it didn't get put up and then then. Every crash has

something like that at its core, every single one.

But the number of incidents are so small that obviously it is the safest part. We know DCA is amongst the most congested, complex airspace in the

world because of military, civil and commercial. But it's been operating safely for the last 70 odd years, except there was the Florida incident

which was about de-icing.

Now, would I -- I'll answer the question another way. Would I fly into or out of DCA today? Yes, absolutely. It is safe, totally.

GOLODRYGA: Important to hear that. Richard Quest, thank you so much.

I also want to bring in Cedric Leighton, CNN military analyst, retired Air Force colonel, who's been listening to this press conference as well. I

caught a glimpse of you listening, Cedric, and I saw you nodding your head in disagreement with a number of things that we had heard there from the

secretaries as well as the president. Just to get your reaction to what we heard. And then we can talk about the crash itself.

[12:05:19]

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Bianna. It's a -- this is an extraordinary press conference, as Richard was mentioning right now. There

are certain significant aspects here that are quite dangerous when it comes to an investigation. And Richard touched on this.

But from a military perspective, when I look at a crash investigation, that is something you absolutely do not want to prejudice. You don't want to

prejudge anything related to an investigation of this type. Because you never know if you're in a position of influence, be you a wing commander or

in this case, president of the United States.

You have to be very careful to make sure that all of the correct things are done, that in essence no stone is left unturned, that there's no political

pressure on people, and that they look at everything that could have possibly been a factor in this crash, because that's really what it's all

about, it's all about trying to figure out exactly what happened here.

Now, the one thing that, you know, I think a lot of people who watched this noted was the whole aspect of DEI. I looked at some things, you know, in

terms of FAA policy. I know some people at the FAA and who had been there before.

And the basic thing is that none of this is something that was in their experiences in terms of lowering the standards for air traffic controllers

or doing anything that, you know, was detrimental to the ability to actually grow a cadre of experienced and professional air traffic

controllers.

I know there have been some issues with unionization and, you know, things like that. But the basic idea of the air traffic controller and the

standards of the air traffic controller are -- have been maintained at a very high level. And that's something that I think is very important for

people to understand that what is being said here may not really be what has happened.

Could there have been a lapse with air traffic control? Absolutely. Could there have been a lapse with the pilots either in the helicopter or, you

know, probably less likely with the commercial airliner, but you never know?

So these are the kinds of things that you have to look at. And that's, I think, what is most important -- the most important takeaway that I had

here. The competence of air traffic controllers is at a very high level in the United States. And that it should be something that people understand

at this point.

GOLODRYGA: We spent a great deal of time this morning in our coverage talking about the number of planes, the congestion there at that airport in

particular, and its unique position. Reagan National Airport outside of Washington, D.C., which operates domestic flights, military flights,

helicopters, and it's aircraft that obviously has to be aware of monuments and the White House and its vicinity as well.

Explain to us the frequency that we do experience at this airport in particular, commercial aircraft coming so close to military.

LEIGHTON: Yes. Well, in terms of the frequency, this is one of the busiest airports in the country, actually, even though it's a very small airport in

terms of its size. It has shorter runways than, say, JFK or O'Hare or Atlanta or any of the other major airports.

So it operates in a very confined space. But because of its proximity to Congress, to the executive branch, it has become basically the favorite

airport of a lot of the people that work in Washington, even at very high levels of government.

So the demand is there for increased flights. And they basically swage that demand by increasing the number of flights, especially to places like

Wichita, Kansas, where the airplane -- the American Airlines plane came from.

So that's one aspect of it. Then the military part, Bianna, is the where, yes, there are military aircraft that do land there. But for the most part,

they're actually flying around the airspace near Reagan National Airport.

So in the case of this helicopter, what you have is the airspace being used for training purposes and the airspace also being part of an area in which

they operate their actual missions. They provide service to the Pentagon. They provide service to Joint Base Anacostia Bolling, which is right across

the river from Reagan National Airport.

[12:10:10]

So it is by -- not necessarily by design, but in actuality, a very, very busy airspace where civilian and military come together. And that can

present a problem in and of itself, because military air traffic control is handled on a different set of frequencies than civilian air traffic

control. So there are some challenges with that.

But pilots know the procedures for that, especially military pilots in this area. And that's something that, you know, of course, would also need to be

examined as part of the whole accident investigation process.

GOLODRYGA: Yeas. And it's reported that the Black Hawk was operating a standard military exercise at the time. As you noted, it's a very busy

airport, very congested. It's an airport I've spent a lot of time in. I'm sure you have as well, flying in and out of regularly.

Cedric Leighton, thank you so much.

Well, Scott Miller is a former Northwest Airlines pilot and currently an aeronautics professor and flight instructor. Scott, thanks so much for

taking the time to join us. I wish it was under better circumstances and covering this tragedy here.

Sixty-seven lost lives in this air collision last night at Reagan National Airport. First, your reaction to the press conference that we heard from

the president, where we also heard from the transportation secretary and the secretary of defense, not providing, I would say, much concrete new

information into the investigation, but seemingly sort of denying any role in this new administration's actions with regards to this crash and

pointing the finger, it seems, at previous policies from predecessors.

SCOTT MILLER, FORMER NORTHWEST AIRLINES PILOT: Well, that -- that's true. I think that everyone in the country, from the top on down, is shocked by

what's occurred and they want answers.

A lot of good questions, I think, were brought up during the press conference, but that's just what they are at this point. They're questions.

And everything needs to be looked at moving forward.

I think some important questions were brought up, but the investigators will be focusing on the facts as they develop them, as they discover them

through their investigation. And then we'll start to get some answers.

GOLODRYGA: Let's talk about the timing and what we know about what led up right before the crash. It appears both the Black Hawk helicopter and the

American Airlines flight were both in standard flight pattern. And that the helicopter, this is what we heard from the transportation secretary, the

helicopter was aware of the plane.

What we're not so sure of is whether the American Airlines pilot was aware of the helicopter. Can you just walk us through how something like that

would be possible? Excuse me.

MILLER: Yes. Absolutely. In my former employment, I've flown this exact approach many times, including approaching to runway one and then breaking

off and performing the circle to runway 33.

At that point, once you've been cleared for landing, the assumption is basically made by the airline crew that the traffic is in fact clear,

because particularly when you're below a thousand feet above the ground, you don't have the space to maneuver.

An airliner simply cannot react quickly to threats under that altitude because we're configured for landing. We're on speed, we're on our descent

profile. And we simply don't have the ability to maneuver.

So to say that the airliner crew is not aware of the helicopter might be a true statement, but let's not read too much into that.

The fact is they may not be aware of it because they were concerned for their landing. And there's no reason that there should have been any

conflicting traffic in that area. The controller took care of that by ensuring that the helicopter reported seeing the airliner.

Now the question's going to come up, did the helicopter truly see what they thought they saw? That's one of the biggest questions that needs to be

answered here.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And I don't know if we have the audio from that exchange between the helicopter pilot and the air traffic controller. But you do

hear that point where the air traffic controller alerts the pilot about the commercial airliner, the American Airlines flight. He says he sees it, and

then there's about 10 seconds worth of silence, and then you hear audible gasps from the air traffic control.

Talk about what could have happened in that scenario. When you have the pilot of the Black Hawk helicopter acknowledge seeing the plane, is it a

timing issue? How -- can a -- can a Black Hawk helicopter be maneuvered quick enough to avoid a collision at that point?

[12:15:03]

MILLER: Certainly quicker than the airliner, yes. When -- and I've heard those tapes. They're widely available on various sources.

And there were actually two times that the helicopter reports seeing the airliner in sight. The first time was during what sounds like the initial

contact between the tower controller and the helicopter. And that was a routine exchange. The helicopter reported seeing the jet in sight and in

fact asked for visual separation, meaning that they would take on the responsibility of remaining clear of the traffic. That is a normal routine

procedure and the tower controller approved it.

Perfectly reasonable, perfectly acceptable. A little bit of time goes by and then you hear the tower controller query the helicopter again

verifying, do you have the traffic in sight? That's a little bit out of the norm.

GOLODRYGA: How so?

MILLER: Even though -- well, because the controller, for reasons we don't know yet, but will be made clear in the investigation, had a concern that

perhaps the traffic was maybe getting a little bit too close to each other, and using his training, using his experience, reached out to the helicopter

a second time to verify the helicopter had the traffic in sight.

And at the -- and because of that call, the helicopter again reiterated, the traffic was in sight. But then obviously the -- oh, go ahead.

GOLODRYGA: Well, I was just going to ask you quickly, was there anything you heard in that brief exchange, we should note, it's just a few seconds.

But when you hear the exchange between the air traffic controller and the pilot of the Black Hawk helicopter, was there anything out of the ordinary

that you heard from that exchange, whether it's perhaps even the timing as to when the air traffic controller alerted the pilot about the incoming

commercial plane?

MILLER: I would just if -- and I wouldn't even call this something out of the ordinary. But the simple fact that the controller felt he had to query

the Black Hawk helicopter a second time to ensure the safety. That's the controller doing their surveillance.

And even though he had already asked him once, for some reason, he felt the need to verify it a second time. That's going to be a huge focus of the

investigation.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And assuming we'll get much more clarity and information once the black boxes are recovered here. It was interesting to hear the

president asked about night vision goggles that it appears the Black Hawk helicopter pilot was wearing and whether that played any role in the

visibility that he had at that moment.

It was a clear -- it was a clear night last night, so weather shouldn't have been an issue. All of these questions yet to be answered.

Scott Miller, thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:30]

GOLODRYGA: Well, it's nearly 7:30 in the evening in Ramallah, and the release of more than 100 Palestinian prisoners is underway.

Now, this followed Hamas freeing three Israeli and five Thai hostages from Gaza earlier today.

Earlier in Jabalia, Israeli soldier, Agam Berger, was freed in orderly surroundings. But that wasn't always the case today, as CNN's Jeremy

Diamond explains from Tel Aviv.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, we saw eight hostages released from the Gaza Strip today in exchange for 110 Palestinian

prisoners, but we did also see chaotic scenes today as seven of those hostages were released from the southern part of the Gaza Strip.

These were the scenes that we saw in Khan Yunis as one female civilian Israeli hostage, 29-year-old, Arbel Yehud, was taken out of a van and

walked over to the Red Cross vehicles by mass Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hamas militants.

You can see these very chaotic scenes and the look on Arbel Yehud's face as she appeared to be absolutely terrified amid this very rowdy crowd and as

she was surrounded by these masked militants.

Ultimately, she was taken safely into Red Cross custody. And we saw two other Israeli hostages released today, as well as five Thai nationals. But

that chaotic scene that unfolded in Khan Yunis has indeed drawn a formal protest from the Israeli government.

The Israeli prime minister calling this another example of the cruelty of Hamas and ordering the delay of the release of 110 Palestinian prisoners.

That delay led to scenes of protests in the streets of the West Bank.

At least three Palestinians were wounded by live fire from Israeli forces. But ultimately, the release of those 110 Palestinian prisoners did indeed

move forward.

Among those 110, we know that there are 32 who were serving life sentences, several of them responsible for deadly attacks on Israeli civilians. But we

also know that there were also 30 children who were released from Israeli prisons. They were held under Israeli administrative detention without

charge and without trial.

We do expect that the next round of releases of exchanges is set to take place this coming Saturday.

Steve Witkoff, the U.S. Special Envoy for the Middle East, was visiting Hostage Square today. And he indicated that the American, Keith Siegel, is

next up to be released.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Well, two of Donald Trump's most controversial cabinet picks, both staunch supporters, have been in the hot seat on Capitol Hill.

Kash Patel is making his case to run the FBI, an organization he has vowed to help dismantle. Democrats are questioning his experience, temperament,

and judgment. But they're also paying particular attention to Patel's past remarks, where he vowed to go after the president's perceived enemies,

including journalists. And at times, things got contentious.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Is Bill Barr on your list of whatever you want to call them, you know, been referred to as an enemy's list, you've called

them deep state after serving his country as the Attorney General of the United States? Is he on your list because of a personal vendetta?

KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR NOMINEE: Well, it's not whatever we want to call it, Senator, with all due respect, it's not an enemy's list. That is a

total mischaracterization.

KLOBUCHAR: I ask you. I actually use the words you use for the list which was deep state, right? That's what you put at the back --

PATEL: It is a glossary in the back.

KLOBUCHAR: -- against the attorney general of the United States. Is it because of a personal vendetta that he's on the list you're under oath?

PATEL: I have no personal vendetta against Bill Barr.

KLOBUCHAR: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Well, Tulsi Gabbard is also facing questions from lawmakers. She's the president's pick to oversee America's spy agencies, despite

lacking intelligence experience. But it's her previous comments about U.S. adversaries that is causing the most concern. And it's something Gabbard

addressed right from the start, as she also made clear where her loyalties lie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TULSI GABBARD, DNI NOMINEE: Before I close, I want to warn the American people who are watching at home. You may hear lies and smears in this

hearing that will challenge my loyalty to and my love for our country.

Those who oppose my nomination imply that I am loyal to something or someone other than God, my own conscience, and the Constitution of the

United States, accusing me of being Trump's puppet, Putin's puppet, Assad's puppet, a guru's puppet, Modi's puppet, not recognizing the absurdity of

simultaneously being the puppet of five different puppet masters. The same tactic was used against President Trump and failed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:25:21]

GOLODRYGA: In 2017, as a congresswoman, Gabbard had a mysterious meeting with Syrian dictator, Bashar al-Assad. And then critics have long accused

her of promoting Russian propaganda.

CNN's Katie Bo Lillis and Zach Cohen are in Washington covering the hearings, and join me now. Katie Bo, let me start with you and Tulsi

Gabbard here. Just getting some headlines. She's refusing to say whether she thinks Edward Snowden was a traitor. One of the controversial takes

she's had and appearing somewhat sympathetic to Edward Snowden several years ago.

And also this from Senator Mark Warren, which was notable, saying that she may be so unqualified that she can't even legally serve as a spy chief.

Just give us more insights, Katie Bo, into what we heard today from this hearing so far.

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Well, Gabbard has appeared very calm. She has maintained a really steady demeanor as she's been up here answering

really tough questions from both Republicans and Democrats on the committee.

And a particular flashpoint has been her refusal to directly answer in a yes or no way, whether or not she believes that Edward Snowden is a

traitor. Snowden recalled the former NSA contractor who in 2013 illegally downloaded and then released reams of classified material.

He's broadly viewed inside the intelligence community and as well as on the Senate Intelligence Committee, including by the chairman, Republican

Senator Tom Cotton, to be a traitor. And so she was repeatedly pressed by both Republican and Democratic lawmakers to answer whether she agreed with

that viewpoint.

Gabbard had, in the past, as a democratic member of Congress, introduced legislation calling for a pardon for Snowden. He is under -- he's now

currently lives in Russia, but he is under indictment for espionage here in the United States, calling for a pardon for him and expressing sympathy to

his cause, because, of course, part of what he did was release an enormous amount of information that did expose controversial U.S. surveillance

programs.

Senator James Lankford, a Republican lawmaker on the committee pressed her on whether or not she believed he was a traitor. She wouldn't answer

directly. She sort of said, oh, I'm looking to the future now. And I'm going to try to find ways to prevent a future Snowden-style leak if I am

confirmed.

She also said that she did believe that he had broken the law, but would not go so far as to say whether or not she viewed him as a traitor. She was

then pressed in a very contentious exchange with Senator Michael Bennet, a Democrat on the committee, over the same issue. Is he a traitor, yes or no?

And she repeatedly dodged the question and declined to answer directly.

This has been a big flashpoint for her with both Republicans and Democrats on the committee. And I think we're going to be watching closely whether or

not those answers are satisfactory to Republicans. She could only afford to lose one Republican at the committee level.

GOLODRYGA: Equally contentious with the Kash Patel hearing as well, Zach. Talk to us about some of the things that stood out to you, some of the line

of questioning. And the fact that he walked in to this hearing with a lot of concern among FBI agents as to whether he is fit for the job given some

of his past comments, which many of which he seemingly seemed to defend today as well.

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes. It was clear that Democrats really trying to use Kash Patel's own words against him and try

to weave this narrative that on -- if he's confirmed, the FBI will effectively act as Donald Trump's enforcer and has been given a mission to

go after the people both in the government and in the media, as Kash Patel has said publicly that oppose Trump or that, you know, push the so-called

Russia hoax.

Of course, the investigation into connections between Donald Trump's campaign and Donald Trump and Russia. So this is something that Kash Patel

has really talked a lot about publicly and something that Democrats specifically read back direct quotes to Patel and tried to push him to

explain or answer for those past comments.

And for Patel's part, though, he repeatedly accused Democrats of cherry picking partial quotes. He said that multiple times and never really did

address the comments that were raised by the Democrats in this line of questioning.

Patel was also very defiant on several different occasions, really accusing Democrats of trying to paint him as a villain or a Trump loyalist when

really he maintains that if he is confirmed, he will stand up for the rule of law and he will return the FBI back to its core mission, which is

effectively letting cops be cops. That was something he said in his opening statement.

So, look, Republicans obviously supporting Patel and his sort of stance that he is both experienced enough and his past is not too much of an issue

to confirm him. But Democrats, clearly, raising an issue. And pointing directly to Patel's own words to try to make their case.

So it remains to be seen what Patel's future holds, but clearly a split on long party lines for sure. But Democrats will need to see opposition from

at least one Republican to have any chance of knocking down Patel's confirmation.

[12:30:10]

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Katie Bo Lillis, Zachary Cohen, thank you so much. You'll be following both of these hearings for us throughout the day. Appreciate

the time. Thank you.

Well, we're going to go back to our breaking news out of Washington with the latest on that tragic plane collision last night. We'll come back to

that after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

Planes are starting to land and take off from Reagan National Airport after the deadly midair collision in the Washington area Wednesday night. And

recovery operations are continuing in the Potomac River. This after an American Airlines passenger jet collided midair with a U.S. military

helicopter near the airport. All 67 people on board, both the aircraft, are believed dead.

Flight 5342 from Wichita, Kansas, was just moments away from landing when it collided with the helicopter sending both aircraft into the Potomac.

Last hour, U.S. President Donald Trump, without evidence, put the blame on previous democratic administrations and their DEI policies. Listen to him

answer a question from our Kaitlan Collins.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We haven't yet know the names of the 67 people who were killed and you are blaming Democrats

and DEI policies and air traffic controller. And seemingly, the member of the U.S. military was flying that Black Hawk helicopter.

Don't you think you're getting ahead of the investigation right now?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think so at all. I don't think with the names of the people, you mean the names of the people

that are on the plane. You think that's going to make a difference?

They are -- they are --

COLLINS: Does it comfort their families --

TRUMP: -- a group of people that have lost their lives. If you want a list of the names, we can give you that. We'll be giving that very soon. We're

in coordination with American Airlines. We're in coordination very strongly, obviously, with the military.

But I think that's not a very smart question. I'm surprised coming from you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:35:03]

GOLODRYGA: Let's bring in CNN's Alayna Treene, who is at the White House. And this press conference, Alayna, started out seemingly normal. The

president expressing his condolences, offering a moment of silence, sort of giving a play-by-play of what led up to the moment of the crash, until he

took a turn and, again, without presenting new information to the public, seemingly blaming his predecessors and their policies for this crash in

particular.

How is the White House responding now, just a few minutes after that briefing?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: They're defending the president and what he said in the conversations I've had since then. But, look,

you're exactly right, Bianna. He did come out. He did say that he mourned for the victims of that collision. And we know, you know, 67 people who

were involved in the collision and no survivors, according to the secretary of transportation, Sean Duffy.

But Donald Trump, as you said, opening with a moment of silence, discussing that, but then getting into kind of, where was the blame and where is the

blame held? And he blamed Democrats. He blamed the Obama administration. He blamed the Biden administration. He also took very sharp aim at former

Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg, who he said was a good bullshitter in Donald Trump's own words.

And then, you know, went on to also talk about diversity and how he believes that perhaps the diversity, equity, and inclusion policies

involving the hiring process for people at the FAA and other safety organizations involved with this country's aviation to be to blame for this

as well.

Now he was pressed directly and repeatedly, I would like to say, by several reporters in the briefing room asking him, what do you mean by diversity?

How do you think diversity impacted what happened in that collision? And he called it, common sense.

Now, one thing as well that I do want to notice, who was in the briefing room with him. We did hear from Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, of

course, playing a very important role in this, given that the helicopter was a U.S. army Black Hawk helicopter that collided with that passenger

aircraft.

But we also heard from Vice President J.D. Vance from Transportation secretary, Sean Duffy, who I would note was sworn in just two days ago on

Tuesday.

And then but also in the room who we did not hear from, which I think is very notable, is the is the chair of the National Safety Transportation

Board. We didn't hear from her, Jennifer Homendy, nor his new acting FAA Administrator, Christopher Rocheleau, who Donald Trump did announce during

that briefing was going to be the new acting head of the FAA, seemingly making that decision just in the last few hours.

So one thing I do want to be clear on here, Bianna, is that we are clearly still learning so much. We have heard from the officials who briefed this

morning during the press conference, both in Washington, D.C., but also -- or excuse me, right outside Washington, D.C., in Virginia, where this crash

was, but also back in Wichita, Kansas, that we are still learning a lot about what had happened. There are still details that need to be

investigated.

And so there were questions about what Donald Trump was saying and what evidence he had to back up those claims that perhaps the bad politics or

diversity led to this. All questions I know that people are still trying to get answers from the White House on.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And at the end, just moments before he left the podium, he did say, I'm not blaming the air traffic controller, but was questioning, I

guess, some of the decision-making there and the circumstances that we're now aware of, again, early hours into this investigation. And it is notable

that the head of the NTSB and the FAA were not there, but we did hear from the defense secretary, the transportation secretary, and the vice president

as well.

The president also is telling the public that it is safe to continue flying, which is an important message for Americans to hear as well.

Alayna Treene, thank you so much.

Well, let's stay on the deadly midair collision. CNN law enforcement contributor Steve Moore joins me now.

So as we have been discussing, Steve, we want to stick away from the speculation now and with the facts as we know them. The search for the

black boxes continues. Sadly, this is a recovery mission now that tragically all of the passengers on the commercial flight and the three on

the Black Hawk helicopter have died in this crash.

What are some of the questions that come to your mind in these early stages of the investigation?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I mean, the very basic question I have is whether the helicopter actually saw what he thought he

saw. I mean, I've been a pilot for 40 some years now.

And frequently, especially at night, you will get traffic called out to you and you may believe you have it, but it's the wrong aircraft. That's what

brought PSA 182 down in the 1970s over San Diego.

[12:40:04]

So this is -- this is one thing that I would be curious about. You know, they say they were both on assigned routes. And I get that, they were. And

they may not have deviated from them.

But in the same way, you and I could be on a road at 90-degree angles and both of our roads would be our normal, you know, customary routes. But if

one of us runs a stop sign, it doesn't really matter if it was normal.

GOLODRYGA: Are there instruments on either the commercial carrier or the Black Hawk -- Black Hawk helicopter that would have signaled the proximity

to another aircraft? Or do they rely solely on the communication with the air traffic controller?

MOORE: They shouldn't. In civilian aircraft now that operate close to larger airports, you're required to have a unit called an ADS-B. ADS-B is a

-- is a system that actually communicates between aircraft. And it sets up potential conflicts and will literally tell the pilot of conflicting

aircraft to either climb or descend to avoid other aircraft.

Now, the question comes out is, did this military helicopter have ADS-B that was reporting? I suspect he did.

But one thing is that on aircraft, the jets that I fly, when you come down past 400 feet, those signals are inhibited because you don't want to

distract pilots from spurious signals or anything like that, which might create a danger in and of itself. So you will not, below 400 feet in many

jets, get any kind of warning of an impending conflict.

GOLODRYGA: Also making this a bit more of a complex situation is the fact that military and commercial airlines operate on different frequencies as

well. But that having been said, it appears that these types of flights are common at this particular airport.

We've talked about the heavy congestion there and the special maneuvering around the monuments, the regulations in place, obviously, with the White

House in such close proximity.

Given that we're just in such early hours, I don't want to put you on the spot about what if anything needs to change or if this was just a tragic

one-off. But there is pressure on more flights being added at this airport.

What if anything stands out to you, perhaps as something that should change, given the unique nature of this airport in particular?

MOORE: Well, again, I am loathe to give direction at this point or suggest much of a suggestion. But where this line of thinking will lead eventually

is separation, obviously, of military rotor wing traffic or helicopter traffic from commercial aircraft in the vicinity of DCA.

And right now, they are allowed to fly in the areas where the -- where the jets would be. But as long as they don't -- as long as they see them, we

may have a situation where they actually need to put a buffer zone in and say you cannot fly in this area when we are operating under visual

conditions.

GOLODRYGA: Something the president was asked at this press briefing was whether or not the night goggles had anything to do, perhaps, with the

Black Hawk helicopter pilot not seeing as clearly as he could have.

Are these questions you have as well? Just walk us through any of the concerns that night vision goggles may have in terms of clarity for pilots.

MOORE: Yes. I flew helicopters years and years ago. And unless it has changed significantly, night vision goggles are like wearing kind of horse

blinders. You can see straight ahead and it enhances your visibility straight ahead, but it limits your parallax view, your side vision

drastically. So that's certainly a possibility.

But I don't know if during this phase of that flight they were wearing them. I understand that this was possibly an annual re-currency flight, a

recertification flight. So they would have been doing a little bit of everything.

I don't know whether they were using night vision goggles at the time or not. Had they been using them, their peripheral vision would have been

significantly decreased.

[12:45:04]

However, if you report another aircraft in sight, the controller believes you. And it is incumbent upon the pilot who reports an aircraft insight to

maintain visual separation with that aircraft.

It's apparent to me that the controller saw them -- saw their paths converging and didn't -- wasn't sure that that helicopter saw what it said

it saw and was querying him about whether he had visual and finally said, go behind him.

So there was concern. The controller is in a bad situation because they're required to follow basically the rules of the air there. And one of the

basic rules of the air is if you see -- if you say an aircraft in sight, you maintain visual on that aircraft. And so this is where they're going to

start asking questions.

GOLODRYGA: The president -- last question, was focusing a number of times on the altitude of both planes, questioning why both aircraft were

seemingly flying in close proximity altitude-wise to each other.

Is that something that's quite unusual, given that we've had the Black Hawk helicopter pilot acknowledge seeing the commercial airline carrier? And

then you also have a commercial plane that seconds from landing.

MOORE: Right. Well, what you had is a helicopter at a -- presumably at a constant altitude. He was at a constant 300 feet. That was his -- that was

his airspace at that point.

The airliner was only at 300 feet for seconds because it was descending to land. It didn't have an assigned altitude. It was coming into land. So the

airliner only briefly went through the helicopter's altitude.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

MOORE: They weren't flying at the same altitude. They just -- they just --

GOLODRYGA: -- happened to be at that moment. Right.

MOORE: -- tragically.

GOLODRYGA: OK. Steve Moore, thank you so much. Really appreciate the analysis.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:01]

GOLODRYGA: Back to our breaking news. Donald Trump is blaming the Biden administration for a deadly collision between a passenger plane and a

military helicopter over Washington last night.

Sixty-seven people died in the crash. Now, even though there's no evidence that air traffic controllers made any mistakes, the president said Joe

Biden's diversity initiatives may have put unqualified people into safety positions.

CNN's Rene Marsh joins us now from Washington, D.C. Rene, you have a unique perspective of covering aviation for us as well as DEI initiatives and

programs. I'm just wondering your reaction to what we heard from the president. A lot of speculation. It didn't seem to be followed up with

specific new information that he may have been presented with. Your reaction.

RENE MARSH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, I was watching that live and I had my phone and started to receive text messages and one of

them read, absolutely insane, irresponsible. And that came from a former aviation crash investigator who had been doing that work for about 40

years.

So they know what goes into an investigation like this before you can make concrete statements about root causes. And so many in the industry were

just watching that with mouths wide open because it just goes against the fabric of how this industry works.

In aviation and it's one of the first things that I learned when covering aviation is that it's void of politics. Democrats, Republicans all get on

the plane, on planes and it is within all of our best interest to make sure that it is because it is so critical and vital for us getting from point A

to point B.

So this really went against that thinking. And it is because aviation safety has been void of politics that the U.S. has been able to maintain

the title of the safest air travel in the world.

And so, you know, when the president invokes policy and politics into this, it really does leave a bad taste in many of these investigators' mouths.

But again, we should say that he was making all of those statements as bodies are still in the water there. The NTSB has yet to recover the black

boxes, which is critical and a treasure trove of information in this investigation.

And they also haven't had a chance to even analyze the debris. Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And the danger really lies in the fact that if you have a president of the United States say that there are subpar people working in

very important positions, it does raise the question of airline safety and travel safety in the country. I mean, it was great that he said that it is

safe, but we'll continue to follow story. A lot of raised eyebrows from some of the things we heard from the president and his cabinet members.

Rene Marsh, thank you so much. We'll be right back with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:55:27]

GOLODRYGA: And one last update on the breaking news out of Washington. The deadly midair collision of an American Airlines passenger jet and a U.S.

Army helicopter over Washington, D.C.

The plane took off from Wichita, Kansas, and that city's mayor talked about the impact this has had on her community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LILY WU, MAYOR OF WICHITA, KANSAS: We have been told that there are no survivors. We mourn with all those who have been impacted. This is a

terrible tragedy that will unite those in Washington, D.C. and Wichita, Kansas forever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: And our thoughts are with everyone in that community, especially the family and friends of those who tragically lost their lives.

Trying to tell you a programming note. In about two hours' time, the NTSB will be holding a press conference. We will bring that to you live.

"AMANPOUR" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:00]

END