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One World with Zain Asher

FAA Closes Helicopter Routes Near Reagan National Airport; Remembering The Lives Lost In The Plane-Helicopter Collision; Palestinians Return To Find Devastation In Northern Gaza; Trump Could Slap 25 Percent Tariff On Mexico And Canada Saturday; Contentious Hearings For Kash Patel, Tulsi Gabbard and RFK, Jr.; Aired 12:00-12:45p ET

Aired January 31, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:28]

ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Coming to you live from New York, I'm Zain Asher. My colleague, Bianna Golodryga, is off today. You are watching

ONE WORLD.

We have new developments surrounding Wednesday's midair collision over the Potomac River in Washington, DC. The Federal Aviation Administration has

closed the helicopter routes near Reagan National Airport. CNN has obtained two videos of the moment of impact, which some viewers may indeed find

very, very disturbing.

In this first video, you can actually see the Black Hawk helicopter and the American Airlines jet flying towards each other, and then all of a sudden,

there is a bright explosion and both aircraft spin out of control and splash into the Potomac River below.

The second video here shows the helicopter moving along the river with the plane on its final approach to the runway. Then the collision and then the

explosion sending both aircraft into the Potomac River killing 67 people.

Crews have returned to the Potomac to recover. The last 14 bodies were still missing at this point. Any moment now officials are expected to give

us an update on the recovery efforts. Then at the top of the hour, we will bring you the White House briefing as well.

We are covering this story from all angles. We've got Natasha Bertrand joining us from the Pentagon. We've also got Rene Marsh at Reagan National

Airport.

Reagan -- Rene rather, let's start with you, because we know that the black box for the American Airlines commercial jet has been recovered. They're

still in the process of analyzing the data from that black box. Just walk us through what we are hoping to learn.

RENE MARSH, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Zain. But, you know, the new development today was that the FAA had shut down this

corridor that had been open to military helicopters and law enforcement helicopters, essentially sharing the same airspace with those commercial

airliners.

And that is significant because it is the first aviation safety move and change that they've made since this midair collision.

But to your point, you know, there are a lot of new threads that we are beginning to learn. "The New York Times" reporting that this Black Hawk

army helicopter may have been traveling at a higher altitude than it should have been. And if that deviation is confirmed, it really would raise

questions about whether the pilot of that helicopter was following flight regulations at the time just moments before that collision. But that is

something, the altitude, is something that will certainly be a data point that investigators can pull from the black box.

They have not yet received the black boxes or retrieved the black boxes from the Black Hawk, but they do have the black boxes from that commercial

passenger plane, and they've opened it, it's in their lab, and they've started this process of starting to read off that data. The NTSB's saying

that they expect to have a preliminary report in the next 30 days.

As you mentioned, the recovery effort is still underway. We expect to get another update from the NTSB today. But they are really tapping into their

expertise around the country. We know that the NTSB has pulled in one of their members from Alaska who was a Black Hawk pilot to tap into his

expertise.

And we also know that they will be focusing on interviews eventually in the coming days of those air traffic controllers. They have not done that

interview just as yet.

So all of this is -- all of this is going to produce the information that they need to piece together this timeline of exactly what went wrong. Zain?

ASHER: All right. Rene, stand by.

Natasha Bertrand, let me bring you in, because I want to touch on something important that Renee touched on there, and that is the fact that there is

some belief that the helicopter in Wednesday's collision may have been flying outside its approved flight path and that it was perhaps at a higher

altitude than it was supposed to be. What more do we know for sure at this point, Natasha?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that President Trump posted on Truth Social just a few hours ago that the

helicopter was flying too high. He made that assertion pretty categorically.

But at this point, not even the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, is willing to go that far. He said earlier in an interview with Fox and Friends that

the altitude, the elevation that the helicopter was flying at, that is part of the ongoing investigation. Of course, they're going to be looking into

it, as well as whether it was on the appropriate flight path.

[12:05:05]

But as for -- as of right now, they still do not know whether it was deviating from the standard elevation or the standard flight path. And

whether that would have had anything to do with the crash at all.

And so these are things they have to get information from as well from the Black -- from the black box in that Black Hawk helicopter which has not yet

been recovered, again, according to Hegseth. So making every effort to recover that information.

But we know at this point that these Army pilots, they were on a routine training mission. They were not necessarily inexperienced. The co-pilots

had about 500 hours of flight time. The lead instructor pilot had about a thousand. And that is altogether a fairly experienced piloting duo there.

So this is not necessarily a case of these pilots didn't know what they were doing. It seems as though, as of right now, the investigators are

focusing in on whether there was something that went wrong with the communication or their ability to see because it was nighttime. Were they

wearing night vision goggles? Were they looking at the wrong aircraft? Did they deviate at some point for whatever reason? So many little factors that

could add up to create a catastrophic situation like the one we saw.

And I should note that we do know, at this point, the identity of two of those crew members on board the Black Hawk. One of them is Chief Warrant

Officer to Andrew Eaves. He was the instructor pilot. A Chief Warrant Officer is typically an expert in their field, so he would have had a lot

of experience flying these kinds of helicopters.

And the other one was the crew chief, Ryan O'Hara. So he would have been kind of sitting further back in the Black Hawk and kind of making sure that

everything was going to plan technically.

We do not yet know the identity of that third crew member. And we are told that not all of them have actually yet been covered from the crash site at

the Potomac.

ASHER: All right. Natasha Bertrand and Rene Marsh, thank you both so much.

All right. Many of the passengers on the American Airlines flight were part of the ice skating community on their way home from a national development

program and figure skating championship.

CNN's Ed Lavandera has more now from Wichita, Kansas, on some of the lives that were lost and the pain that loss has caused.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY KERRIGAN, FORMER FIGURE SKATER: We just wanted to be here with each other.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Six members of the skating club of Boston died Wednesday. Olympic medalist Nancy

Kerrigan came together with the Boston skating community after the unimaginable tragedy.

KERRIGAN: Not sure how to process it.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Among the 67 victims of the deadly collision, two teenage figure skaters.

Spencer Lane --

ANNOUNCER: Would you please welcome to the ice, Jinna Han.

LAVANDERA: And Jinna Han.

DOUG ZEGHIBE, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, SKATING CLUB OF BOSTON: We watched Jinna just grow up here from just a tiny little tyke into this amazingly

mature 13- year-old, and we talk a lot about the athletes, but I think we're going to miss their moms as much. Just really good people.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Their mothers were also on the plane, along with two coaches, Evgenia Shishkova and Vadim Naumov from Boston, seen here

winning the 1994 World Figure Skating Paris Championship.

TENLEY ALBRIGHT, SKATING CLUB OF BOSTON AND OLYMPIC MEDALIST: I really can't believe that it happened because I picture them right here. The

coaches always stood at that entrance. The skaters just flew all over the ice doing remarkable things, inspiring all of us.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): They were just a handful of a larger group of skaters on American Eagle Flight 5342.

ZEGHIBE: Fourteen skaters returning home from the national development camp at Wichita, Kansas, put on by U.S. figure skating, were lost in the plane

crash.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): The Russian couple's son, Maxim, returned home on an earlier flight, just medaled at the U.S. men's figure skating

championship over the weekend.

An eerie silence at the Wichita ice center, as the magnitude of the loss keeps growing. A mourner left a simple tribute on the bare ice, days after

an intense three-day training took place here.

JEFF WINCH, FRIEND OF VICTIM: They're some of my daughter's best friends.

LAVANDERA: One of the crash victims was playing a video game with this man's 10-year-old daughter from the plane, just before the accident

occurred.

ALEXIS WINCH, FRIEND OF VICTIM: She would always be there to talk to me.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Tragedy has struck this skating community before. In 1961, when the entire Boston Club's team was killed in a plane crash

heading to the world championships.

Other victims in Wednesday's crash over the Potomac River were three U.S. service members aboard the Black Hawk helicopter and four crew members on

the plane that left Wichita, including American Airlines flight attendant Ian Epstein, First Officer Samuel Lilley, and Captain Jonathan Campos.

[12:10:04]

MAYOR LILY WU, WICHITA, KANSAS: This is a terrible tragedy that will unite those in Washington, D.C. and Wichita, Kansas, forever.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: I want to now bring in a former acting FAA director, administrator rather, Billy Nolen. So, Nolen, thank you so much for being with us.

I want to start with some of the speculation that we've gotten in recent hours that the helicopter might have been flying outside of its approved

flight path. And this idea that the helicopter could have been focused on the wrong plane.

Just give us your take on those two sort of pieces of speculation that we've just gotten.

BILLY NOLEN, FORMER ACTING FAA ADMINISTRATOR: Yes. Thanks, Zain. And thanks for having me on today.

Look, I think there are still quite a few unknowns here. You know, what the expectation is not that two aircraft would ever get this close and

certainly not lead to an accident, right, on what's otherwise a very normal, very regular night.

So, the focus, you know, as some of your other folks have talked about, will for the NTSB will be to see what will happen. You know, of course, for

the American Airlines, for American Eagle 5342, they've already got a clearance to land. They are -- they're on final approach. They're 30 to 40

seconds away from landing.

Then the -- so now the focus sort of turns to the Black Hawk crew. What did they see? The requirements are remain below 200 feet. So all of those are

the kinds of things that the investigators will really hone in on and to see, number one, were they above the altitude that was prescribed? And did

they -- is it possible that they may have misidentified the aircraft, you know?

In visual conditions, it is not unusual to have this kind of clearance where air traffic control, I've had it many times over the course of my,

you know, 45 years of flying where you may -- so you've got the preceding aircraft in sight, maintain visual separation, clear to land, clear to

continue, something along those lines.

So this certainly will be part of the investigation. And I think we will get those kind of answers sooner rather than later. You know, the NTSB has

already said they hope to have a preliminary cause within 30 days.

ASHER: Of course, we've all listened to the audio from air traffic control warning the helicopter about the commercial jet. Would you have expected

air traffic control to be much more specific about where the commercial jet was in relation to the helicopter?

NOLEN: No. You know, again, having flown around the world, and as an international captain myself, and but I've also been, you know, I have

nearly 4,000 hours of military time, both helicopters and airplanes.

So, typically, when you're in visual, you know, flight conditions or VFR, visual flight rules, that applies in some respect. So, the expectations is

if traffic is called out to you and you're expected to maintain visual separation, there's an assumption on the part of air traffic control that

say, yes, I've got the traffic in site that you do and do you have it. And certainly they're monitoring, you know, their screens and they can

certainly see the track of both -- of both aircraft.

Now, we are talking a very short period of time, depending on what, you know, the closure rates. So I make more assumptions at this point in time.

This is one where we really truly will have to let the investigation take, you know, take us where it will and then get, you know, what really

happened in this moment.

ASHER: And just in terms of air traffic control staffing. I mean, obviously, you know --

NOLEN: Yes.

ASHER: -- one thing that a lot of people were talking about yesterday was this idea that you had one controller essentially manning two tower

positions. My understanding is that not -- that's not necessarily abnormal, but just this idea that there have been staffing issues when it comes to

air traffic control.

And a lot of the people that are working are stretched thin. They're having to work longer hours, more days. I mean, give us your take on whether or

not -- I mean, obviously, it's too early to tell at this point, but whether or not that could have factored into all of this at all.

NOLEN: So, again, as I, you know, as I stated, we're in this -- on this particular night, right? You're in visual conditions. And certainly in

visual conditions, you can have things like reduce separation. Why? Because you've got the ability to see and avoid, right? You can see the traffic in

front of you.

If you're -- I am seeing maybe in the clouds, you can see outside there, you've got more spacing in between aircraft, et cetera.

I will say to the control issue during my time as acting FAA administrator, we've worked hard to get more money to add more controllers. The FAA, over

the last two years, they've met their staffing target.

But also as we came back, roaring back from the pandemic, you know, the traffic within the U.S. national airspace has grown.

On any given day, you've got something between 45 and 50,000 commercial flights. You've got X number of business flights, X number of private

flights. You've got -- you know, last year there was 148 space launches. We've also got about a million drones operating in that.

[12:15:14]

So as we think about that, one of the things that we must think about is to ensure that the FAA has, they have the staffing, they have the resources,

and they have the technology they need as our air space continues to grow and we add more new entrants.

You know, we think about drones and the electric flying taxis, right? So we just need to think how we can leverage innovation, you know, as we continue

to expand our airspace.

ASHER: And your reaction to President Trump yesterday, very quickly coming right out of the gate and blaming DEI on this crash.

NOLEN: You know, what I would say is, so I've flown for 45 years. I am a military pilot. I spent a whole career at an airline as an international

captain. I've worked at other airlines in Australia and Canada. I've been part of this industry for a long time.

And everyone that I personally have encountered has been nothing but the utmost professional, from controllers, to pilots, to flight attendants, to

mechanics, to airlines. We recognize just how critical it is to maintain safety is a very much a layered approach.

And when one of those layers break down, the reason we become so safe, you know, let's remind ourselves, it's been 16 years since we had a fatal

commercial accident. So it's an opportunity for us to take a step back and then say, OK, what -- did we miss something? And then what could we do to

ensure this kind of incident doesn't ever recur?

ASHER: All right. Billy Nolen, live for us there. Thank you so much.

NOLEN: Thank you.

ASHER: All right. Israel says it has received the names of three more hostages to be released by Hamas on Saturday. All of them are men. They are

54-year-old Ofer Kalderon, who has French and Israeli citizenship. Keith Siegel, a 65-year-old Israeli-American. And 35-year-old Yarden Bibas. He

was kidnapped along with his wife and children on October 7, 2023. Hamas claims that his wife and children were killed in an Israeli airstrike.

Israel has agreed to release 90 Palestinian prisoners in accordance with the ceasefire agreement.

Meantime, the Palestinian Health Ministry says that medical evacuations are going to begin on Saturday after the crucial Rafah border crossing between

Israel and -- or rather Gaza and Egypt reopens. It's the first time in eight months. Desperate patients will be able to leave for vital medical

care.

Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians headed back to northern Gaza in the past few days to the place they once called home. Many were shocked by the

scenes of utter devastation.

CNN's Paula Hancocks has this story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN international CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The week started with such hope.

Around half a million displaced Palestinians heading home to northern Gaza by any way possible.

Once an hour's drive, now a journey that can take days.

This woman says, my house is completely destroyed, but I am still returning.

But even knowing their home was gone did not prepare some for the brutal reality of Israel's airstrikes.

If I knew it was like this, I wouldn't have come back, says Khamis Imarah. Imarah says he lost around 50 members of his extended family in the first

months of the war. His father and brother are still under this rubble. He was pulled out alive.

He finds his father's medication, his mother's knitting.

I waited so long for a daughter, he says. A week after she was born, she and her mother were gone. I don't even have a photograph of her.

His other brother holds his daughter, who he says has shrapnel in her stomach and leg.

He asks his nephew, Walid, where is mama? Walid says his mother is in heaven, he says, with his aunt's uncle's grandfather. No one is left.

Memories of home are now of death and trauma. But until he finds and buries his family, Imarah says he will not leave.

My honest advice is do not travel north, he says. There's no sign of life, no electricity, no water, no food.

Fatima Abdelhadi (ph) agrees. She travelled this week to what was left of her home in Beit Hanoun. She's now returned south to the school she's been

sheltering in for almost a year and a half.

[12:20:10]

We're so sad about the destruction we saw, she says. It used to be a city. It's now just rubble. We'll stay in this school until they make us leave.

This school, like many used as shelters, is run by UNRWA. Israel has now banned the U.N. agency, accusing it of ties to Hamas, an accusation UNRWA

denies.

Najwan (ph) stands in line for food coupons at the school turned shelter. She says, if it wasn't for UNRWA, we would not survive, from education to

health to food.

Israel says UNRWA's role in Gaza will be phased out and replaced by other U.N. agencies.

The celebrations of the ceasefire, just days ago, are now a distant memory, replaced by the bitter realization that all they knew has gone.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, Abu Dhabi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ASHER: All right. Still to come, we are one day from President Trump's threatened tariffs that could be slapped on America's neighbors. We'll go

live to Canada for the very latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: German lawmakers have rejected an opposition proposal on tightening immigration policy. It comes after the conservative leader, Friedrich Merz,

pushed a motion on immigration through Germany's parliament on Wednesday. And with the backing of the AFD, a party of the far right breaking a long-

held political taboo in Germany.

We could be just hours away from a trade war between the U.S. and two of its biggest trading partners. Donald Trump says that he plans to slap a 25

percent tariff on goods coming from Mexico and Canada on Saturday.

He says it is to punish those countries for not doing more to stop migrants and illegal drugs from coming into the United States. Both Canada and

Mexico say they will fire back with tariffs of their own.

Paula Newton is tracking how all of this is playing out in Canada.

So just in terms of what Canada is saying in terms of retaliating, what sort of economic consequences will there be on the economies of Canada and,

of course, on Mexico?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Severe for both and neither cut -- both countries, in fact, as they have been pretty blunt about what it would do

to their economies.

[12:25:02]

At the same time, they make the point this will also hurt the American economy and crucially here American consume, Zain, because Donald Trump was

reelected on a pledge to make things cheaper for Americans, not more expensive.

Here's the thing, though, Zain, the president right now at this hour doesn't seem to be listening to those kinds of economic arguments. He

believes that this trade policy of slapping these tariffs first and asking questions later is a much better form of negotiations in order for the U.S.

to get what it wants.

At the same time, as you said, both Mexico and the United States praying -- Mexico and Canada planning to retaliate. Right now, a U.S.-Canada Council

is meeting in Toronto to try and parse all of this.

At the beginning of that meeting, I want you to listen now to Justin Trudeau and what he said about retaliation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: The President does choose to implement any tariffs against Canada. We're ready with a response. A

purposeful, forceful, but reasonable, immediate response.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: This will undoubtedly hurt, Zain, both the United States and Canada in the short term.

You know, Zain, I've spoken to businesses here in Canada, Canadian businesses that also have factories in the United States and Mexico. All of

them are putting a lot of investment plans on hold.

I think it's suffice to say that whether you're Canada, Mexico, or any other trading partner that the United States has right now, this is a new

world order when it comes to trade. That's what Donald Trump is putting out there. We expect more information in the next few hours and we'll see if he

does go through with an across-the-board 25 percent tariff on all goods imported from Mexico and Canada.

ASHER: Yes. We're still waiting to see if President Trump will include oil because he says that he hasn't made a decision on that front as of yet.

Paula Newton live for us there. Thank you so much.

All right. Still to come, making their case to run some of the most powerful agencies and organizations in the U.S. government. Donald Trump's

most controversial cabinet picks testify on Capitol Hill. We'll take a look at how it went.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:13]

ASHER: Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher.

It's now up to the senators to decide how to move forward after hearings for three of Donald Trump's top allies and most controversial cabinet

picks. Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Kash Patel, and Tulsi Gabbard were all in the hot seat during contentious hearings on Capitol Hill this week.

Gabbard, the president's choice to be the nation's top spy chief, vowed that if confirmed, Russia would not get a past. She would get a past,

rather. She has been accused of repeatedly spreading Kremlin propaganda and being sympathetic to dictators.

Patel, meantime, downplayed his vows to dismantle the FBI organization. He's hoping to lead, along with his pledges to pursue retribution against

the president's perceived enemies.

And RFK Jr., the man hoping to head America's public health agencies, insisted he is not anti-vaccine, as senators questioned his years of anti-

vaccine rhetoric.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty joins us live now in Washington. So, Sunlen, just walk us through at this point, when you're looking at these three very

controversial picks, who is and isn't likely to make it through at this point? Obviously, Tulsi Gabbard is probably the most vulnerable out of the

three.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right, Zain. She had a bit of a shaky performance, I should say, yesterday on

Capitol Hill, and that was acknowledged by even some Republican senators on that committee, some of whom were in support of her before and afterwards,

admitting that they have more questions than they have answers from her.

It was notable that after that hearing yesterday, Gabbard supporter, Senator Republican Josh Hawley of Missouri, he said he had spoken to many

of his Republican colleagues after her performance. And she -- he said he's more worried that her nomination may be in jeopardy now.

She had an uneven performance, really pushing back on all the deep questioning from Democrats and Republicans about Edward Snowden, about her

ties to Russia, her view on Russia, and about her visit in 2017 to visit with Assad.

So a lot of ground there for Republicans and Democrats to chew over as they push towards her vote in the committee and potential vote on the full

Senate floor.

And she frankly does not have a lot of support right now. So a lot needs to happen between now and then.

Then you have RFK Jr., many people not satisfied by his testimony over the last two days on Capitol Hill.

First, in four months, the feeling that he could not answer basic questions about the agency that he would lead. Basic questions about Medicare,

Medicaid. Really important moments that many senators really drew from, also feeling not satisfied by his answers on vaccine safety and the

efficacy of vaccines.

A lot of senators, we heard from a top senator, Republican Senator Cassidy himself a doctor, saying that he's really struggling to get there with RFK

Jr. That should really send some red flags.

Perhaps a surprising testimony yesterday came from Kash Patel who was in -- a nominee for FBI director. It was certainly contentious, but not

necessarily as explosive as many had imagined for.

We saw really party line questioning. Many Democrats attempting to pin him on many rhetoric and past statements he made about the January 6 rioters,

about his calling to retaliation about deep -- the deep state. And whether he would, in essence, hold President Trump's feet to the fire if need be,

or if he would fall into the category of being a loyalist, as he has for many years. And he promised that he would uphold the independence of the

FBI.

But certainly the big question on Capitol Hill, as they go into next week is, what the math reflects, how these performances changes the math. These

nominees have to get out of committee, Zain, and then a full floor vote.

These are thin majorities in the Senate for Republicans. So each and every person's opinion here matters. And it's not clear, at this point, how these

votes will go.

ASHER: Yes. And just the fact that -- I'm speaking of Kash Patel, the fact that he split with Trump on a very key issue. This idea that, according to

him, he was essentially saying that the January 6 convicts should not have been pardoned, especially those who committed violent acts against police

officers.

How much of a surprise was that?

SERFATY: That was a big surprise and certainly notable. And the people who prepared Kash Patel for this nomination hearing, that's probably a good win

in a moment for them that they're going to point to, to demonstrate that he does have independence from a long-time friend and ally of Donald Trump.

That was very notable that he, so publicly, and one -- said that he is not in support of what President Trump did, and notable that was one of

President Trump's first moves after being sworn in as a new president.

[12:35:11]

He has made that a big part of his first few weeks in office. The fact that Kash Patel would distance himself from that decision is certainly notable

and something that I want to project to assuage some concerns from many Democrats on that committee and Republicans, too, that he has his own voice

and own mind and that's how he would potentially operate, if he were to be confirmed for FBI director.

ASHER: All right. Sunlen Serfaty live for us there. Thank you so much.

All right. Time now for The Exchange, and a closer look at these high-stake hearings. CNN's senior political analyst, Ron Brownstein, joins us live now

from Los Angeles.

So --

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi.

ASHER: -- you heard. Hi, Ron. So you heard Sunlen Serfaty essentially saying there that Tulsi Gabbard is the most vulnerable at this point. But

the fact that you have Republican senators willing to consider such controversial picks, essentially people that they probably wouldn't have

even looked twice at or never even considered, you know, three months ago, for example.

What does that tell you about Donald Trump's grip on the Republican Party at this point?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. I mean, that's the real story. I mean, you know, there were three votes against Pete Hegseth on the floor, Murkowski, Collins, and

McConnell. They're probably available to vote again against RFK Jr. and almost certainly Tulsi Gabbard.

And we're debating whether there is a fourth. But, you know, and that obviously has big consequences about whether they get confirmed or not, but

you can lose the forest for the trees here.

Virtually, every Republican Senator is lining up and indicating they are willing to support nominees who, as you know, they probably could not have

imagined they would have been asked to put in these positions six months ago.

And that, to me, just reaffirms something that I think is very clear over the first, you know, less than two weeks of the Trump presidency, which is

that there is not going to be a lot of meaningful pushback on him from Republicans in Congress.

The real arbiter of how far he can go over these next four years in transforming America and transforming the presidency is really going to be

the courts. It's going to be the Supreme Court and the six of Republican- appointed justices. They're going to have a lot more say about what America looks like after four years of this presidency, I think, than Republicans

in Congress.

ASHER: And just holding on to Kash Patel, specifically, I mean, he's -- he came out and said essentially that he wouldn't seek revenge against Trump's

political opponents. But the fact that a potential FBI director actually has to say that, the fact that he actually has to come out and say that,

what does that tell you about where we are in American politics?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, yes. I mean, look at what he did. I mean, he basically threw critics a bone by opposing something that's already happened, that he

really has no ability to reverse, which is Trump pardoning, you know, violent January 6 convicts, and, you know, gave only very vague, I think,

reassurance about what his -- what his agenda would be going forward, you know.

And, look, actions speak louder than words. I mean, the White House is pressuring, according to "The Washington Post," senior FBI officials to

resign or be fired. So I think there's no question that Patel envisioned as really Trump appointees throughout the government. Envision much less

independence for all of these institutions from the White House.

You know, Donald Trump views the entire federal government as an expression of his desire and will. He believes it should bend to his command and he is

putting in place people who almost entirely believe in that, second.

ASHER: And with RFK Jr. probably, I would say, the most controversial out of the three, saying that black people should not be given the same vaccine

schedule as white people because quote-unquote their immune system is better than ours.

I mean, how dangerous is it to have someone with those kinds of views leading America's health agencies?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, we -- the CDC reported last year that noncompliance with school vaccine requirements was rising to a level where

we fall below herd immunity, where even the parents, the vast majority of parents who still do support vaccinating their kids can't really protect

them because there will be too many kids in the pool of students who are not vaccinated, thus allowing childhood diseases again to spread.

Someone like RFK Jr. in a position of authority can -- even without formally changing any of the vaccine schedules or withdrawing approval for

vaccines, can push that number, that compliance number further down and further into the red zone.

In fact, there's polling recently from a nonpartisan think tank that the views among Republicans have moved toward anti-vaccine, far more skepticism

of vaccine than even a few years ago.

You know, Bill Cassidy, the senator who you're talking about before, was really at the -- at the folk room here, a physician, chairman of the Senate

Health Committee, he pretty obviously believes that RFK Jr. should not be anywhere near public health policy, not only because of vaccines, but

because of his inability to answer those basic questions on Medicare and Medicaid.

[12:40:17]

But he also has already an announced primary challenger for next year from another Republican in Louisiana who's arguing that Cassidy has been

insufficiently supportive of Donald Trump. So he really has a kind of profiles and courage moment coming. Because I don't think anybody can watch

his performance at the hearings this week and believe that he wants to put RFK Jr. in this job, that doesn't mean he will not vote to do so if he

concludes that it's too risky, politically.

ASHER: Yes. My understanding is that Tulsi Gabbard is the most vulnerable. RFK Jr. is a maybe. And Kash Patel is likely to go through.

Ron Brownstein --

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

ASHER: -- we have to leave it there. Thank you so much.

BROWNSTEIN: All right. Thanks, Zain.

ASHER: I would ask you another question I see you wanted to comment but we are out of time. I'm so sorry. Thank you so much --

BROWNSTEIN: No worries.

ASHER: -- Ron. Appreciate it.

All right. Now to Japan where rescue efforts to reach a man who was swallowed up in a giant sinkhole have reached a fourth day. The 74-year-old

man and his truck fell into the pit when it opened up on Tuesday.

An official says a sinkhole has expanded to 40 meters wide four times its width when it first appeared. Two hundred households have been asked to

evacuate the densely populated area around the sinkhole north of Tokyo.

Authorities believe that corroded sewer pipes may have caused the earth to fall in, creating this massive sinkhole you see here.

And finally, the music industry's biggest night of the year, the Grammys, is on Sunday. The big question is whether Beyonce can finally win the

biggest prize Album of the Year. She got 11 nominations for her Cowboy Carter album.

But this year's show will be about more than celebrating music. There are actually calls to cancel award shows in the wake of the recent wildfires in

Southern California. And Grammy organizers say their show will double as a fundraiser to help devastated communities rebuild.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN WINSTON, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, 2025 GRAMMY AWARDS: You could actually take the Grammys where we know we've got an audience who are going to watch

it. We know we've got the biggest stars in the whole world that are sitting there. And we bring real awareness to what's happened.

We do some really serious fundraising for the causes that need it so much right now. We pay tribute to our first responders. We showcase L.A.

businesses. Surely, that is worth doing rather than not doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: All right. That's it for the show. You have been watching ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher. Marketplace Africa is up next. You're watching CNN.

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