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One World with Zain Asher
Federal Worker Buyouts; Trump Posts New Details Of His Proposed U.S. Takeover Of Gaza; Accident Investigators Brief Lawmakers On Midair Collision; Thousands Killed In Democratic Republic Of Congo; Nation Sees Long Road Ahead As It Looks To Rebuild; New Bird Flu Strain; Arab-Americans React To Gaza Takeover Proposal. Aired 12-1p ET
Aired February 06, 2025 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:30]
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: The Trump administration ramps up the pressure on federal employees.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: ONE WORLD starts right now.
U.S. federal workers have just 12 hours left to decide whether to leave their jobs, with many still wondering if it's even legal.
ASHER: And mass burials in the Democratic Republic of Congo, as thousands of bodies are discovered amid ongoing fighting between the army and rebel
forces.
GOLODRYGA: And problems with America's egg supply continue. A new strain of bird flu could leave consumers cracked.
Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. You are watching ONE WORLD. Seventeen days of Donald Trump's reshaping of the federal government is reverberating across
the nation's capital today.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Federal workers have exactly 12 hours left to decide whether they'll take the Trump administration's deferred resignation offer
or not. They'll get eight months of pay in exchange for resigning now, but there are some challenges to that plan.
ASHER: On Capitol Hill, Republican senators set to confirm Russ Vought this evening. He's Mr. Trump's choice to run the budget office. However, Senate
Democrats plan a marathon of speeches in protests.
GOLODRYGA: And President Trump's 80 executive orders has led to more than a dozen legal challenges.
Kevin Liptak joins us now from Washington. Another very busy day in Washington, as Republican leaders are set to meet with the president. A lot
on the table to discuss, obviously, the looming budget issue with the CR expiring just next month. Just walk us through what's on tap today.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. This meeting will be critical because for all of the Trump has done so far in office, using his
executive authority, it is true that in order to achieve some of his biggest goals, he will require the participation of Congress.
You mentioned the budget, but also the extension of his 2017 tax cuts. Those are due to expire this year. And in order for them to be renewed, he
will need buy-in from lawmakers. So this will be a critical meeting.
Trump hasn't necessarily spelled out in any great detail how he's looking to do that, what vehicle he's trying to use to get that across the finish
line. And I think these lawmakers are looking for some clarity from him as they sort of get to work on his legislative agenda.
But the big question that's hanging over the White House and really hanging over Washington today is these buyouts for federal workers. They have until
11:59 P.M. tonight to either accept this offer from Elon Musk and the White House and the Office of Personnel Management to put themselves on
administrative leave until September, receiving payment and benefits.
Or to stay in the federal government and risk the potential that they just are laid off after this offer expires.
Now, we have heard that about 40,000 workers have accepted this work -- this offer so far. That's well short of what the goal had been. The Trump
administration had been hoping that 5 to 10 percent of the federal workforce, about 100,000 people, would accept this offer. So they're well
short of that.
But what officials do believe is that, in the final hours before this deadline is reached, they'll receive many, many more people taking this
offer.
But I do think it's interesting. I was going to look at the federal retirement statistics. You know, every year, more than 100,000 federal
workers retire. It's an aging workforce. And so this 40,000 figure that they're at right now is not even close to the normal rates of retirement
within the federal government. So they will need plenty more people to sign up if they are to reach their goals.
But what you hear from federal workers is a huge amount of uncertainty about whether or not these -- this payment, the severance and these
benefits will actually be extended if they take this offer and already the unions that represent some of these workers are encouraging them not to
take this offer because they're questioning the legal authority.
You know, Congress has not actually appropriated money for severance. Trump has not presented a budget that would include the severance. And so when
you hear from these unions, they do express some uncertainty about whether this severance will actually be paid. And that could be part of the reason
why they have not reached their goals so far just yet. And so this will be a big question for tomorrow to see how this proceeds.
[12:05:00]
One thing that I think is clear is that whether or not workers sign up for this buyout, there is a risk of what they call a reduction in force going
forward. Whether or not Trump and Elon Musk can reduce the size of the federal government through these buyouts or through layoffs.
I think it's very clear that they intend to proceed with drastically shrinking the federal workforce going forward.
The question, of course, is whether it's legal, and that will be, I think, a question for the courts in the weeks and months ahead.
ASHER: A question for the courts. And also a question for our next guest, Elie Hogan -- Elie Honig, excuse me. He's going to be talking about the
legal challenges. Thank you, by the way, Kevin Liptak. I hope you can still hear me.
Elie, now to you. We were just talking with Kevin about some of the legal challenges facing the Trump administration. I mean, there are lawsuits
facing the U.S. government right now over the plans to shut the USAID, for example. Lawsuits over Donald Trump's plans to house migrants at Guantanamo
Bay, for example.
Also, pending lawsuits possibly for firing FBI staffers without any reason whatsoever. Obviously, lawsuits are slow, right? Because a rushed filing
can actually doom a lawsuit, as you know, for well.
Just explain to us what Donald Trump can actually get away with in the meantime, in the interim.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, there's so much here to dig through, Zain. So let's start with the question that Kevin raised, which is
basically, how much authority does Donald Trump and his new administration have to just fire people in the federal executive branch?
The answer is there is pretty wide latitude for a new administration to fire people, but you have to jump through various administrative and
bureaucratic hurdles first.
Many, most federal employees, including most FBI agents, most DOJ prosecutors on down the line, have some sort of civil service protection.
So ordinarily, what would happen if you want to fire people? Is you have to either go through a reduction in force process, or you have to specify that
this person has engaged in misconduct, that person then has the right to hearing and notice and maybe an appeal.
But what Donald Trump is doing is he's completely flipping the script on all of this. He's essentially saying, to heck with all your procedural
niceties, how about if I just fire you first and then you, individual, whether FBI agent, USAID worker, whoever it may be, you have to go to the
time and expense of hiring an attorney, of battling out in the courts, which could take quite a long time. You're going to be unemployed in the
meantime.
So there's a lot of risk here for those employees, but what Donald Trump has basically done is come in with blunt force political power and said,
you're going to get fired first, and then you can try to claw back your rights later.
GOLODRYGA: Let's talk about both Pam Bondi as attorney general and what now the latest in the last hour we've seen a pause, a delay in the committee
vote to further get to the next level for the confirmation of FBI director, and that is the president's nominee for Kash Patel.
Both had promised and even during their hearings had vowed not to pursue retribution but justice and follow the law accordingly. And yet, 24, you
laugh, you know where I'm going with this, yet 24 hours later after Pam Bondi was already confirmed, we know that she is looking to review cases
that have been brought up against the former president, most notably, I mean against the president when he was a former president and most notably
that here in New York City.
Just wondering, you know, that case was tried, a jury convicted him. He was sentenced. I know that sentence is being appealed now. But what if any law
justification does she have and authority to go back and review this case?
HONIG: It took Pam Bondi a number of hours since she was sworn in less than 24 hours ago to storm right down this political weaponization path. And
what she said she's going to do is we are going to examine all the Trump prosecutions.
Now, the ones that happened in-house at DOJ, the two Jack Smith prosecutions, DOJ, the new DOJ, is going to have access to all those
documents, all those materials. I'm sure they will come out with some finding eventually that those prosecutions were unjust. I mean, it's
inconceivable to me that this DOJ will say, yes, we looked at it and those prosecutions were perfectly legitimate.
It's more complicated than the one you raised, Bianna, which is the state prosecution, the hush money prosecution brought by Alvin Bragg for which
Donald Trump was tried and convicted.
I don't think Alvin Bragg is going to give them anything. I think if they try to get documents or interviews from him and his staff, Alvin Bragg will
say no. And that could end up in a court fight.
But ultimately, the way to resolve that one is, as you said, on appeal. Donald Trump has the right to appeal. I do think there were problems with
the way that case was charged legally, but I don't think it's a reason to inject politics into this whole thing and to cause the sort of showdown
that we seem to be headed towards.
Let the appeals courts make their ruling. That'll settle this.
ASHER: And, Elie, just in terms of what's happening with the Justice Department, you think about the fact that, you know, FBI staffers are being
fired, particularly those who worked on January 6 as well.
The CIA, the thousands of workers at the CIA are being offered buyouts. And the names of some of the new hires are being given to the White House. Just
walk us through, as a lawyer yourself, how concerned you are about the rule of law in this country going forward.
[12:10:10]
HONIG: Well, I know that these efforts have been corrosive, even just the last two or three weeks. I mean, I've talked to countless people, FBI
agents, past and present, DOJ employees, past and present, who -- this is really shaking people up. I mean, to put it sort of bluntly.
Even people who, frankly, are Trump supporters and voted for Trump. I mean, I've spoken and texted with all sorts of FBI agents who generally have
voted Republican and like Trump, who are disgusted at what is happening here. And there's really two reasons for that.
Number one, their rights simply as employees, as FBI agents, are being trampled on. I mean, to fire people because they worked on January 6th
prosecutions without even any allegation of misconduct or wrongdoing goes against the employment rights and the principles of FBI.
The other thing is it's a massive distraction. The FBI, the Justice Department, they have major priorities to deal with. There was an FBI agent
who was on with Kaitlan Collins last night who said she had a colleague who was trying to retrieve human remains from the river after the plane crash,
and that person had to go and fill out one of these ridiculous questionnaires that the new administration is dealing with.
So, FBI is a mission-driven agency. And to have to deal with all this internal drama and all this internal soap opera and politics is really
undermining the actual mission that most people choose to undertake when they go work for the FBI in the first place.
GOLODRYGA: And the sloppy nature of which this is all handled too. I mean, the CIA new hires email was sent in an unclassified email, and that risks
the lives, really, not only intelligence, but the actual lives of those at the CIA whose names are on that list.
Elie Honig, always great to see you, our friend. Come back.
ASHER: Thank you.
HONIG: Thank you, guys.
GOLODRYGA: It's been a while.
ASHER: Yes. Thank you.
HONIG: Great to be with you. Thanks.
GOLODRYGA: Well, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is making the rounds on Capitol Hill today, meeting with Republican leaders of the Senate
and the House. Here he is just moments ago walking through the Capitol.
Now, his visit comes just two days after the U.S. president's proposal to take over Gaza. Prime Minister Netanyahu is calling Donald Trump's plan
remarkable and worth pursuing.
Meantime, Israel's defense minister has instructed the military to prepare a plan for what he calls the voluntary departure of Palestinians from Gaza.
ASHER: Yes. President Trump ignited a storm of criticism around the world when he unveiled his vision for Gaza. Humanitarian groups and governments
are slamming the plan as unlawful and simply unworkable.
GOLODRYGA: Well, today, President Trump is trying to clarify some of those details. He posted on social media that Israel would turn over Gaza to the
U.S. after the war and that no U.S. soldiers would be needed. He also said that the U.S. would work with teams around the world to turn Gaza into,
quote, one of the most spectacular developments of its kind on Earth.
CNN's Oren Liebermann joins us now from the Pentagon. And this was a proposal that got some pushback even from Republicans, though not the
majority, at least publicly, Oren. But Prime Minister Netanyahu has been reported that he and his advisors were notified of this plan just moments
before the president said that to the nation and the world at that press briefing.
Prime Minister Netanyahu today, reiterating what President Trump said in that Truth Social posts and that no U.S. troops needed to carry out Trump's
plans for Gaza.
But just walk us through the reverberations here. Some 48 hours after this plan was proposed and what the prime minister has been doing in the interim
since. I know he met with Pete Hegseth at the Pentagon yesterday as well.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: So a few different parts of this plan that has already changed because of the backlash we have seen,
not only bipartisan from Congress, but also international backlash about the idea of removing Palestinians or convincing them in some way to leave
Gaza so they can resettle somewhere else. That has gotten, as I just said, a tremendous amount of backlash.
Even the White House tried to clean that up and say they were being temporarily resettled until Gaza was rebuilt and reconstructed, and then
they can come back.
So again, whatever this plan is and however long it's been worked on, and there has been some disagreement over whether it is just days or whether
this has been in the works for months, it is still evolving, frankly, as the criticism and the responses come in.
In terms of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, it seems like he was endorsing the idea, and he said this on Fox as well, of Palestinian
emigration from Gaza. A number of Palestinians leaving Gaza that has certainly gotten support from the far-right members of his cabinet, his
foreign minister as well. And the defense minister ordered the military to start coming up with plans to allow for the voluntary leaving of Gazans
from their homeland, regardless of the fact that that's almost certainly not going to get any traction on the ground there.
Then there is this idea that the U.S. would take over Gaza. Trump tried to clean that up and say, Israel would hand it over after the fighting. That,
of course, has a very obvious and glaring problem.
[12:15:06]
Israel has never annexed any part of Gaza. And at least publicly, Netanyahu has never stated any plans to do so. So, it's not actually Israel's to give
away nor is it America's to take. But at least in the, frankly, the bromance of Trump and Netanyahu, these are minor details that are being
brushed aside.
Netanyahu making the rounds not only with Trump himself. He's also met the national security adviser Mike Waltz, Vice President J.D. Vance. He was
here at the Pentagon meeting uh... new Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth. And now he's meeting top members of Congress.
So he is making the rounds, making sure he is very much plugged in, and, of course, making sure he is very much aligned with pretty much anything trump
says publicly.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Those who have supported Trump's plans but know there's no concrete steps to actually implement it or just saying this is the
president thinking outside the box.
Oren Liebermann, you'll be following all of this for us. Thanks so much.
LIEBERMANN: Of course.
GOLODRYGA: Well, U.S. lawmakers are getting a briefing right now on the investigation into last week's catastrophic midair collision between a U.S.
Army helicopter and a passenger jet.
ASHER: Yes. Crews expect to finish retrieving all major pieces of the jet today and will then begin to recover the wreckage of the helicopter.
Officials say the bodies of all 67 victims of the accident have been removed from the river and positively identified.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. At the National Prayer Breakfast this morning, President Trump said he's going to computerize the FAA and call the air traffic
control system obsolete.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We should have had the proper control. We should have had better equipment. We don't. We have obsolete
equipment.
They were understaffed for whatever reason. I guess the helicopter was high. And we'll find out exactly what happened.
We're all going to sit down and do a great computerized system for our control towers. Brand-new, not pieced together, obsolete, like it is land-
based, trying to hook up a land-based system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Gabe Cohen is in Washington for us. So, Gabe, the president touched on this, this idea of altitude. That is a big question. This idea as to
whether or not the Black Hawk helicopter was flying above its restricted altitude. That's going to be a big topic of discussion.
Today, we know that investigators are briefing lawmakers. When will we find out? When will the public find out what was discussed behind closed doors,
Gabe?
GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's a good question. We don't really know at this point. We do know that this briefing, this closed-door briefing, is
underway. There are officials from the NTSB and FAA who are meeting with this bipartisan group of senators explaining, walking them through what
they know about this crash investigation, but also most likely answering and addressing some of their concerns from lawmakers that we have heard in
recent days.
You talk about the altitude of the helicopter, for example, the congested airspace around Reagan National Airport, whether or not that helicopter
route should even exist.
And then there are these major concerns just about the airline industry and safety. You heard the president talk about it there. He is talking about --
essentially, he's calling on lawmakers to pass a bipartisan bill to pump potentially billions of dollars into overhauling those systems, but we
don't know exactly what that looks like at this point.
In terms of the investigation, here's what we -- where things stand today. Most of the plane's wreckage has been removed from the water at this point.
It's being moved to a hanger where investigators are starting to sort of piece together elements of the crash to get a clear picture of what exactly
unfolded, how it unfolded.
They're going to be looking at data from the cockpit. They want to know what the pilots on that jet were looking at and experiencing just before
the crash.
And a significant update that we're expecting today is that I'm told by a source the helicopter should be pulled out of the Potomac later this
afternoon.
Why that is significant? Investigators have obtained and recovered the black box from the helicopter, which should have flight data, as well as
voice recordings.
But they have said that before they release any of that, there is information that they still need to confirm that is on the helicopter. They
don't have access to it right now. So they need that Black Hawk to be removed to the water -- from the water.
And then investigators hopefully can put out a clear picture of what they have obtained from the black box. Because, as you guys mentioned, there are
still these significant questions about the helicopter's actions that night.
We understand from the data that investigators have collected, it appears that the Black Hawk was flying at an altitude of 300 feet, well above the
200-foot limit for helicopters along that route.
We do not know if the pilots and personnel on the Black Hawk were wearing night vision goggles that may have obstructed or impacted their vision,
their line of sight.
And we also know that they told air traffic controllers that they could see the American Airlines flight and yet seem to take no evasive action.
[12:20:04]
These are huge, outstanding questions that investigators haven't been able to come out and clearly address and answer, but hopefully once that
helicopter comes out of the water, they're going to be able to gather the necessary information to be able to give the public more of a clear theory
on what happened.
ASHER: I mean, it's still so chilling to think about what happened on that fateful day.
Gabe Cohen, we have to leave it there. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: Still to come for us. A stark reality check for Syria after the fall of the Assad regime. The country wants to rebuild, but who is going to
pay for it?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: We're learning barbaric new details about what happened in the Democratic Republic of Congo last week, as Rwandan-backed rebels seized the
city of Goma.
ASHER: Yes. The U.N. says that during the chaos that unfolded, female prisoners were raped and burned alive during a mass jailbreak by female
inmates who set fire to the prison. Nearly 3,000 people were killed during the takeover of the city in one of the deadliest battles between the rebels
and the army that Congo has seen in decades.
Here's Salma Abdelaziz with more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is truly horrible and a trigger warning to our viewers. We are learning that at least 165 female prisoners
were raped and then burned to death.
This video shows where and when this horrifying mass rape took place. You are looking at inmates fleeing from a prison in the Democratic Republic of
Congo.
Now, more than 4,000 detainees made it out that day. But before their escape, some of the men carried out the mass rape of 165 women. Then, they
set the prison alight.
Most of those rape victims died in the fire. That's according to the United Nations. Only around a dozen female inmates who had also been raped
survived the blaze.
Now, fighting has been taking place after a feared and dangerous rebel group called M23 battled government troops for control of Goma, sitting in
the eastern part of the Democratic Republic of Congo.
In a matter of days, the M23 rebels forcibly seized control of the city.
Systematic sexual violence has long plagued the country. And with the conflict now spiraling out of control, women and girls are yet again at
risk.
[12:25:03]
Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: All right. Syria is looking at a long road ahead as it starts to recover from more than a decade of civil war that toppled the Assad regime.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. The fighting has left hundreds of thousands of people dead and forced millions from their homes.
Into CNN's Clarissa Ward reports, rebuilding will be a Herculean task.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're just about a 15-minute drive here from central Damascus, and these suburbs of Damascus
really were essentially the heart of the uprising against Bashar al-Assad.
And you can see how they've just been smashed to bits. They've been bombed. They were besieged. People were starved. They were forcibly displaced.
And now, being here on the ground, you get a sense of the full scale of the devastation, the kind of rebuild and reconstruction that we're talking
about. Estimates had been around 250 billion, which once seemed like a figure no one could get their head around. But when you're here on the
ground and looking at it, it's clear that it is going to cost hundreds of billions to rebuild.
WARD (voice-over): What's not clear is where those dollars will come from. Syria's economy has been hollowed out by years of war, corruption, and
crippling sanctions.
In the suburb of Darayya, life has returned to the streets, but making a living is hard. Emad Abu Kalam (ph) runs a shawarma shop. Like most here,
he is optimistic about the future but realistic about the challenges.
WARD: So, he's saying that it's going to take a lot of money and a lot of time to start to really rebuild the Darayya.
WARD (voice-over): Much harder to rebuild are the broken lives. Darayya is a town of widows and orphans. Schools are starting to reopen, but few are
paying salaries.
WARD: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
WARD: Thank you. Thank you.
According to UNICEF, two million children are now not going to school inside Syria. These kids told us that they actually just got out of school
and were heading now to a place that's been set up by a charity. Essentially, it's a safe space where kids can come and play.
WARD (voice-over): It opened just weeks after the fall of the regime of Bashar al-Assad and is run by INARA, a charity whose work I support, that
focuses on children affected by war.
Child psychologist Rahaf al-Bayad (ph) says that many of the kids here show signs of aggression and are lacking love and attention at home, a result,
she says, of the grinding hardship of 12 years of war.
Most women of Darayya are widows, so the mother took the role of the mother and the father, she tells us. So she has to work, support, and raise the
children. This all affects her wellbeing.
As the euphoria of liberation begins to subside, the hard work ahead is becoming clear, and communities like Darayya will need all the support they
can get.
Clarissa Ward, CNN, Darayya, Syria.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:30:12]
ASHER: All right. Welcome back to ONE WORLD. I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.
As millions of government employees in the U.S. brace for mass firings, and as Elon Musk moves quickly to take over federal agencies and aggressively
gut spending, workers are describing an atmosphere of fear and madness.
ASHER: Yes. President Trump tasked the world's richest man to lead the Department of Government Efficiency, which is actually not part of the
government and has not been authorized by Congress.
GOLODRYGA: And Democrats are pushing back, calling what the unelected billionaire is doing illegal and unconstitutional.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. GREG CASAR (D-TX): Today, we're here to say with one voice, fire Elon Musk. An unelected, unaccountable billionaire now has seemingly unlimited
powers over Americans private data and over American's taxpayer dollars.
It seems every hour brings more news about a new threat Elon Musk poses to working people, a new way that Elon Musk wants to take your hard earned
money and keep it for himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Meanwhile, we're now learning details about Musk's efforts to gain access to a key treasury payment system.
ASHER: CNN's Arlette Saenz joins us live now from Washington. So, Arlette, it appears that DOGE is reaching its tentacles into all aspects of the U.S.
government, whether it's Treasury Department or the Office of Personnel Management, potentially accessing the files of millions of federal workers.
Just walk us through what the privacy concerns and what the legal safeguards that are in place to prevent this organization. This isn't even
part of the U.S. government having unchecked access.
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, members of the Department of Government Efficiency have been fanning out across federal
agencies, really raising questions about what their intentions and their plans are as they are examining various departments and agencies for what
they say are efforts to really whittle down bureaucratic guards or bureaucratic institutions, as well as eliminating some, you know, fraud or
ways or inefficient mechanisms.
Now, we know of a few instances where members of the DOGE team have been at specific agencies, for instance, at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration, which is in charge of weather reports and climate tracking.
At least one member of DOGE has been there to access their systems, specifically trying to look and make sure that they are in compliance with
Trump's executive order calling for the end of DEI initiatives in government.
They have also been at the Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services, accessing those systems. That is an agency that Trump -- that Musk himself
has said that he believes there are problems there, that he believes that there are fraud.
[12:35:06]
And then there's this new reporting from this morning about the steps that they have taken at the Treasury Department within the last two weeks.
Emails have shown that members of the DOGE team had tried to use a Treasury Department's highly sensitive system to try to stop payments to USAID.
The then-acting secretary, who was the top career official at the Treasury Department, pushed back on that request, saying that he did not believe it
was within the legal authority to do so.
Treasury has since said that the DOGE employees will have access only -- read access only as they are at the department, but it does raise a lot of
questions about what levers of government DOGE is trying to pull to achieve some of President Trump's political objectives.
And certainly, Democrats up on Capitol Hill, major unions have raised a lot of questions about the privacy concerns here, the access to data that DOGE
may have, all as we are still trying to get a fuller picture of the intentions and work that these members of DOGE are conducting at each of
these agencies and departments.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Arlette Saenz, thank you so much.
Time now for The Exchange and our conversation with Will Guyatt. He is a tech journalist who is also a former Facebook employee. And he joins us now
from Wiltshire, England. Will, thank you so much for taking the time.
You know, we've spent the past few days trying to talk about the legal ramifications and the legality of what DOGE and Elon Musk are doing. He's a
special government employee. And we don't even know what access, what security access those that work for him. They've been described as young as
19 years old, walking into some of these federal offices and taking control of them have.
So, let's put the legal question aside just to get to what you think, given your time focused on Elon Musk as a businessman and what he's done at
Twitter and some of the tactics he's used there.
At the heart of it, what is his ultimate goal here?
WILL GUYATT, TECH JOURNALIST: I followed Elon Musk for over 20 years. And I have to say my opinion of Elon Musk changes on a weekly basis. It's a
roller coaster ride. It has never been, you know, a quiet day in all of that time.
I think, Elon, this is all part of Elon Musk's plan. Elon Musk bought X or Twitter, now X, with the very aim of inserting himself into the U.S.
political narrative. I very much believe now that was part of his intent and part of his intention.
But for all of the criticism, people including I have levelled Elon Musk since he took over Twitter, the rise of hate speech on the platform, all
sorts of other stuff.
It would appear, even if you don't like the platform anymore, that this week it may be showing some positive signs of growth and some signs of
financial improvement.
The way I often talk about Elon Musk as a person, I think you don't have to be -- the world's richest person is not the world's nicest guy. That's the
challenge that you find here. And much of his behavior confuses an awful lot of people and upsets an awful lot of people. Some of it is really bad
and some of it I have struggled to explain.
But what troubles me as an outsider looking into the U.S. here is the fact that you've got untrained individuals trying to control the world's largest
payroll system.
And anybody who is an IT expert or understands IT will know, it's quite easy to get these things wrong if these are legacy systems. And you
wouldn't want millions of Americans not being paid.
So you sort of walk into these situations and wonder exactly where Elon Musk wants to be. It's quite a big move away from a year or so ago when him
and Donald Trump were still trading barbs.
Let's not forget that Elon Musk said that Trump was too old to be the next U.S. president. And now, depending on what you believe, he's got a bedroom
in the White House.
ASHER: But just in terms of -- I mean, you bring up so many good points, both of you actually, just in terms of his methodology of sort of shoot
from the hip, ask questions later. That's exactly what he did at Twitter. He came on board after buying the company for 44 billion and immediately
fired thousands of employees.
Just in terms of the conflict of interest in all of this. You've got the world's richest man who has a lot of government contracts and several
businesses of his work with the U.S. government.
Is it possible or even likely that he's going to use some of the information that he has access to for personal gain, Will?
GUYATT: Well, I'm sure he'll be rubbing his hands with the news of tariffs against China, who are the biggest competitor for his Tesla automotive
business, both in the terms of cars and in terms of batteries. Because let's not forget, Tesla is not just about cars these days. It's about
selling batteries for big energy projects and solar projects too. So yes, there absolutely is a clear conflict of interest there.
[12:40:09]
But many people have not really picked up on the fact that the president himself launched two crypto currencies just before he came into power and
made great claims about making the U.S. a cryptocurrency superpower. So there are a lot of contradictions going on at the moment. And a lot of
people suggesting that things are legal when there doesn't seem to be any kind of real understanding of whether this behavior that is currently being
exhibited.
The only thing I can -- I can compare this to from being a student of history is McCarthyism in the 1950s. It's the hunt for communists. This
ruthless search for efficiency in the U.S. may be the make or break of Elon Musk and Elon Musk as a -- as a person.
Because some of his comments in Europe, if you believe media in Europe, have caused sales of Tesla cars to reduce. But there's going to be a great
deal of Americans who are not going to be pro what Elon Musk is doing at the moment.
But whether or not that matters to Elon Musk, I really don't know, because he's basically bought his way into power. And let's see what he does with
it.
ASHER: Yes. We'll see whether the vast majority of Americans actually care what he's doing. A lot of them just want results. So we'll see how that
shakes out.
Will, Guyatt, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
All right. Still to come here on CNN, eggs, milk and butter, your breakfast table may start looking pretty empty. We'll take a closer look at the
impacts of the bird flu outbreak, which has now infected dairy cows in the U.S.
GOLODRYGA: You're going to leave us hungry, Zain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right. Here in the U.S., the bird flu outbreak is hitting a new phase. Dairy cows in Nevada have tested positive for a newer variant of the
H5N1 virus.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. It's a strain that has been associated with infections in humans. But until now, the only animals known to contract it were birds.
CNN's medical correspondent Meg Tirrell reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, up until this point, there was one strain circulating in cattle known as B3.13. And it's thought that
was spread from birds to cows once and then started circulating among cows.
So now we have this detection in Nevada of a strain known as D1.1. And what that means is that there was a second introduction from birds into cows.
And that's scaring scientists because it suggests this could be harder to contain in cows. If it was just one strain that was circulating, you could
potentially contain that more easily.
But if we're going to see more introductions from birds, that makes this harder to control in cows. And, of course, we know that dairy workers have
been infected from cows.
There's another thing that's concerning about this, though, is that this strain, D1.1, is the one that's been associated with the rare times we have
seen severe cases in humans. There was a teenager in Canada who had a severe case of bird flu. And it was this strain.
And then there was an elderly person in Louisiana who also was infected from backyard flock with the strain, D1.1, and that person died.
[12:45:06]
There have been mild cases when people have been infected from birds with D1.1, so it's not always severe but, of course, that raises red flags as
well.
There's another element to this that also raises red flags, which was that in both the Canadian teenager and the elderly person in Louisiana, while
those folks were in the hospital, it appeared that the strain of the virus acquired mutations that could make it better able to infect humans.
Right now, we have not seen human to human spread of bird flu. And, of course, that would really raise the risk level for everybody.
And while those people didn't spread the strain of the virus to anybody, it shows that potentially this strain is capable of doing so.
So scientists are watching this very closely. This was picked up through the USDA's national milk testing strategy where they're bringing more
states on board to routinely test milk.
Right now, in the last 30 days, we've really seen the detections concentrated in California, where we've seen so much of this bird flu, and
also, of course, in these herds in Nevada.
In terms of human cases, right now, we know of 67 that have been confirmed in the U.S. by the CDC. Most of those have been among workers with dairy
cattle, the next most among workers with poultry.
And then, of course, there was the person in Louisiana who was infected from a backyard flock, a few people whose sources of exposure we still
don't know.
So the CDC and public health agencies everywhere are watching this very closely. And a lot of public health experts are a bit concerned because, of
course, we've seen this communications pause from health agencies. And so we haven't been seeing as much communication from the CDC about all of
this. People will be watching this very closely.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: All right. The price of eggs has surged since Donald Trump won the U.S. election. CNN's Nick Watt has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK HILLIKER, OWNER, HILLIKER FARMS: You can have two.
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Frank Hilliker is rationing his eggs. The line forms around 7:00 A.M.
WATT: How many eggs do you eat?
EMILIE SOUTHWARD, SHOPPER AT HILLIKER FARMS: Myself, probably, three a day.
WATT: What?
SOUTHWARD: Yes.
WATT: That's a lot, no?
SOUTHWARD: That's a normal amount.
HILLIKER: Two dozen?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
WATT (voice-over): The average American eats about 284 eggs a year. Well, they used to.
WATT: You're consciously dialing back on the eggs?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, for sure, yes.
WATT: Because of the price?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
WATT: President Donald Trump claims the high price of eggs helped him win the White House.
TRUMP: They were double and triple the price over a short period of time. And I won an election based on that.
WATT (voice-over): He made wild promises.
TRUMP: We're going to bring prices way down, and we're going to get it done fast.
WATT (voice-over): Then he got egged in the first White House briefing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Egg prices have skyrocketed since President Trump took office.
WATT (voice-over): Democratic lawmakers urged him in a letter to crack down on corporate profiteering.
HILLIKER: They put price controls on things. But now, all of a sudden, we're Cuba or Venezuela. You know, who wants to be like that?
WATT (voice-over): Waffle House just introduced a temporary 50 cent egg surcharge. And Roberto's tacos, around the corner from Frank's Farm, is
charging customers an extra buck 50 for all eggy dishes.
WATT: Who are they blaming?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, they take it out on me.
WATT: Smells rather noticeable.
HILLIKER: What smell?
WATT: Do you eat a lot of them?
HILLIKER: No. They're too expensive.
It's gone from $2 to $3 a dozen to $9 a dozen.
WATT: That's massive.
HILLIKER: It is. Crazy.
WATT (voice-over): And predicted by the USDA to climb even higher.
HILLIKER: Current egg shortages because of the bird flu.
WATT: It is, fully.
HILLIKER: Because of the bird flu.
WATT (voice-over): The only way to stop the spread is to cull millions of infected birds, so slashing egg supply.
HILLIKER: These astronomical prices are all due on supply and demand.
Economics 101. There's nothing Biden could have done to stop the bird flu.
Look, there's nothing President Trump could have done to stop the bird flu. It's neither of their fault.
WATT: You literally have all your eggs in one basket.
HILLIKER: Yes, I do. You got to be careful with that.
WATT: There are so many other bad egg wordplays that we could use, but --
HILLIKER: Exactly.
WATT (voice-over): Nick Watt, CNN, Lakeside, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:50:06]
GOLODRYGA: All right. More now to the fallout after Donald Trump's proposed seeing the U.S. take over Gaza.
ASHER: Yes. CNN's Jason Carroll spoke with Arab-Americans who supported President Trump in November. And while his latest move has them concerned,
many say, they actually wouldn't change their ballot.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Days before the last presidential election, Donald Trump was the invited guest at the Great
Commoner restaurant in Dearborn, Michigan. Albert Abbas says he extended that invitation, a decision he is now reflecting on, given all that has
happened in the last 24 hours.
ALBERT ABBAS, DEARBORN, MICHIGAN RESIDENT: Many in the community are at a loss for words. Last night was a very rough night for most of us.
CARROLL: Abbas is Arab-American and one of a number of Democrats who voted for Trump. Abbas says he hoped Trump would do more than President Joe Biden
did to help Palestinians suffering in Gaza.
TRUMP: The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip.
CARROLL (voice-over): But after Trump said Palestinians should leave Gaza so it can be redeveloped, Abbas says not only does he feel betrayed, he's
hearing from a number of people angered over his past support of Trump.
ABBAS: People were really, really frustrated. And I don't think there's anyone to blame. At the end of the day, as Arab-Americans or Muslims, we
really didn't have much of a choice.
CARROLL (voice-over): Dearborn, a Detroit suburb, is home to the largest Arab-American population in the United States, a community which helped
Trump carry the critical swing state. He won 42 percent of the vote in Dearborn versus Vice President Harris, which with 36 percent, and Jill
Stein with 18.
In 2020, Biden handily carried the city with 69 percent.
Faye Nemer voted for Trump in 2024, out of frustration over the previous administration's support of Israel. Now she is troubled by the president's
proposal to move Palestinians out of Gaza.
FAYE NEMER, DEARBORN, MICHIGAN RESIDENT: I mean, it's very concerning and it's infuriating.
CARROLL: Personal feelings, you're infuriated, but standing by your decision for now to have voted for Trump.
NEMER: Correct.
CARROLL: And what would move that needle for you to say, you know what, I made a mistake?
NEMER: Palestine is the red line for this community.
CARROLL: Nemer says she suspects Trump is bluffing and is using his proposal as some sort of negotiating tactic.
That's the same sentiment shared by Amer Zhar.
AMER ZHAR, COMEDIAN: First, this is clearly not going to happen, right?
CARROLL: And real estate broker Ali al-Farajalla.
ALI AL-FARAJALLA, REAL ESTAGE AGENT: A lot of people are calling me and texting me saying, hey, you know, how did your vote work out? You know, how
is that third-party vote?
CARROLL (voice-over): Both were so-called protest voters. Neither supported Trump or Harris.
CARROLL: Are there any sort of second thoughts now about having supported a third-party candidate?
AL-FARAJALLA: Absolutely not. And I'll still do it again and again and again.
[12:55:02]
ZHAR: I didn't vote for Trump. So a protest vote? I don't know. I would say it was a targeted vote of conscience to say that the children of Gaza have
to mean something. Their death has to mean something.
CARROLL (voice-over): And while Arab-Americans here were divided in the past, going forward, one point is uniting them -- opposition to Trumps
proposal to move Palestinians out of Gaza.
SAM BAYDOUN, WAYNE COUNTY, MICHIGAN COMMISSIONER: The community will be unified. I will tell you this. The Palestinian people would rather die and
live in a demolition site than to be ethnically-cleansed and being sent out of Gaza to Egypt or Jordan.
CARROLL: So there's a real sense from those that we spoke to here in the Arab-American community that they've been let down by both parties.
A real sense of frustration, clearly, over Trump's proposal. But those very same people told us that if Harris had been elected, and if there had been
a Harris administration, their feeling is that Palestinians would still be suffering.
Jason Carroll, CNN, Dearborn, Michigan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Jason for that report.
And that does it for this hour of ONE WORLD. Thanks so much for watching. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: I'm Zain Asher. "AMANPOUR" is up next. You're watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:00:00]
END
