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One World with Zain Asher
CNN International: U.S. Employers Added 177,000 Jobs In April; Prince Harry Loses Appeal Against Security Downgrade Decision; Canadian Prime Minister Outlines Priorities At News Conference. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired May 02, 2025 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAIN ASHER, HOST, "ONE WORLD": All right. Key jobs report is out and unexpectedly stronger than forecast.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, HOST, "ONE WORLD": One World starts right now. We'll look at what the jobs report says about the health of the economy and the early
impact of President Trump's trade war.
ASHER: Plus, the fallout from the first major White House personnel shake- up in Trump's second term,
GOLODRYGA: And we go live to Islamabad for the latest on the tit-for-tat hostilities between India and Pakistan.
Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: Together, united. Literally, I came in and I hugged like I have not seen this guy in literally --
GOLODRYGA: So happy to see each other.
ASHER: -- a week. You are watching One World, with both of us together.
Despite uncertainty in the economy, the resilient U.S. jobs market is still growing. We've got the job numbers for April. Earlier, they showed, the
economy gained 177,000 jobs, certainly fewer than in March, but still better than what economists were expecting. The unemployment rate remains
steady at 4.2 percent. President Donald Trump says that these strong numbers show the Federal Reserve should be lowering interest rates.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. Here is how the markets are reacting. The Dow, look, all green arrows. We like this. The Dow up over one percent, the S&P 500 also
nearly up 1.5 percent, and the NASDAQ also up today as well. The U.S. Labor Secretary reacting to the news in the last hour on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORI CHAVEZ-DEREMER, U.S. LABOR SECRETARY: We beat expectations. So, this is an exciting day for the American worker. We knocked it out of the park
last month, and to beat expectations this month is great, not only for the American economy, but for all Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: All right. There is so much to unpack with these numbers. We've got Alayna Treene in Florida, where the President is spending this weekend.
But first, let's go to Matt Egan to break down the numbers. So, Matt, this is not really what we were expecting. We're expecting the numbers to really
show some impact from the tariffs, from the trade war. Instead, we got a much better than expected number that really just shows this economy and
this labor market is very resilient. But, that doesn't mean we are out of the woods. We could see a significant decline next month.
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yeah. That's right, Zain and Bianna. Look, happy Friday. It's great to be here with some good news on the economy. We were
bracing for a slowdown. We were bracing for some trouble here. We didn't get that at all.
Let's run through the key numbers here. So, this report shows the U.S. added 177,000 jobs in the month of April. That's a solid number at any
time, especially right now. It beat forecast by about 40,000, and it's kind of in line with where things were back in March. March was revised lower.
Now, the unemployment rate, 4.2 percent, again, that's relatively low. It's been stuck in this area. It really hasn't gone noticeably higher yet, and
that is encouraging as well.
When we look at the trend here, this is job growth for each month over the past year, and yeah, what stands out is how resilient the jobs market has
been. In fact, when you zoom in and you just look at the last three months or so since the President took office, if you were asleep, you almost
wouldn't even know that we're in the middle of a global trade war, and there had been chaos on Wall Street, because, yeah, look at this. The jobs
market continues to chug along. When we look at where the jobs are, leisure and hospitality adding 24,000 jobs. That's bars, restaurants, that's
hotels. Healthcare, also up by more than 50,000 jobs in just the past month.
However, we did see job loss, 1,000 jobs down for manufacturing, which is notable because that, of course, is the sector the White House is trying to
boost with tariffs. And then you get the federal government. This is the third month in a row that we've seen job loss for the federal government
due to all of those layoffs by DOGE and Elon Musk. Economists say we should expect this trend to continue and accelerate, as workers that have been
receiving severance, they start to get counted as unemployed in the months ahead.
Looking at the market reaction, this is one of those nice times where investors are concluding that, yes, good news for Main Street is also good
news for Wall Street. Look at the S&P 500, up 1.2 percent. That's significant, because if the market closes around here, it would mean that
the S&P has basically recaptured all of the losses that started with that severe sell-off on April 2nd, when the President announced those Liberation
Day tariffs. Also, this is the ninth day in a row for the S&P 500 being up. That would be the longest winning streak since 2004.
When you zoom out, big picture, this shows that, yes, the jobs market remains resilient, despite all that uncertainty.
[11:05:00]
The hard economic numbers, they continue to beat the weak surveys. It also suggests, despite what the President said, that there really is no need for
the Fed to come to the rescue with sweeping interest rate cuts right now. In fact, Goldman Sachs, just a few moments ago, put out a new report saying
that they're pushing back their prediction on when the Fed will start cutting interest rates. They thought it would be in June. Now, in part,
because of this jobs report, they don't think it's going to happen until July.
Lastly, I think the trillion dollar question is whether or not this is the calm before the storm, because, look, this is a rear-view mirror number,
right? It's really good at telling us where we've been. It doesn't necessarily say where we're going. And we know that the full impact of the
trade war, of these sky-high tariffs, it has not been felt yet, and economists fear that when we do feel that impact, it's going to show some
damage to the jobs market. But, for now, thankfully, we see this job market continue to chug along. Zain and Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Always good to end a week, Friday, on a good note. So, we'll take it. Matt Egan, thank you.
Let's go to --
EGAN: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: -- Alayna Treene. And Alayna, you're there covering the President. We did know this morning, going into this jobs report, what this
number would be. Obviously, it's better than expected. But, what we could have anticipated, and what did happen, was the President responding either
way, whether it was a positive jobs number or a negative jobs number, that the Fed needs to step in and cut interest rates. That's exactly what he did
again.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: You're exactly right, Bianna and Zain. This is something we have heard now repeatedly from the President.
Even before he actually was sworn into office, he was calling for this with the anticipation of him coming into the White House.
But, look, we did hear from him this morning, as you mentioned, once again, calling on the Fed to lower interest rates, and that comes despite, as Matt
just greatly laid out there, despite that very solid jobs report that so far it does not really account for the impact of the President's tariffs,
but I do want to read for you a bit of what he posted on social media this morning. It was a lengthier post. I'm just going to read a part of it. He
said, quote, "Employment strong, and much more good news, as Billions of Dollars pour in from Tariffs." He went on to say, "Consumers have been
waiting for years to see pricing come down. NO INFLATION. THE FED SHOULD LOWER ITS RATE."
Now, just one quick fact-check there. His claim that there is no inflation is wrong. I mean, data just this week from the Commerce Department showed
that inflation is at or it rose 2.3 percent in March. That's compared to last year. But, look, this was also a pretty rosy statement from President
Donald Trump. He has really been trying to inject some sort of optimism right now as it comes to the economy, especially as we're seeing so much
uncertainty and turmoil around his tariff policies.
We kind of actually saw this earlier this week. I remind you that we had not so great numbers when we learned of the GDP rate having its first
decline since 2022 this year. The President then blamed that on Biden. He is now, of course, taking credit for the good job numbers today. So, little
bit of a discrepancy there.
But, I do want to get to the point that Matt was making as well about when it comes to the Fed, and his repeated call on the Fed to try and lower its
rates, first of all, we have now seen the President repeatedly try and challenge the Federal Reserve here. I would note the Federal Reserve is, of
course, supposed to operate as an independent agency, but this really gets to the heart of what the President has been complaining about behind closed
doors for some time now that he wants to see inflation get better. It's something that he had campaigned on. He wants to see Americans crediting
him with better prices at the grocery store, at the gas pump. That's not necessarily what they are seeing.
And I would remind you as well that our recent polling from this week shows many Americans still very concerned about the state of the economy, about
the state of their wallets, and whether or not they're going to be able to afford some of the daily goods and concerns over whether those prices are
going to be raised once we really begin to feel the impact of those tariffs. So, that's where the President is reacting today. We'll see what
happens moving forward with the next jobs report.
ASHER: All right. Alayna Treene live for us there. Thank you so much.
And all these economic indicators boil down to one thing, the effect on the dollar in your pocket. We'll talk about that in about 20 minutes or so with
economist Diane Swonk.
GOLODRYGA: Well, the Duke of Sussex, Prince Harry, has lost a court challenge to the British government's decision to downgrade his security
arrangements while in the UK.
ASHER: Yeah. His security detail was downgraded after he gave up world duties. Prince Harry argued he was being singled out, and the move was
unjustified.
Earlier, CNN's Nada Bashir filed this report outside the court in London.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: The court has been very clear in its decision rejecting Prince Harry, the Duke of Sussex's appeal against the decision
taken by the British government to downgrade the level of security provided to the Duke of Sussex and his family while in the United Kingdom.
[11:10:00]
Now, for Prince Harry, this has been a deeply personal issue. He has been very clear and vocal in his criticism of that decision taken by the Home
Office and authorities in charge of the security details provided to members of the royal family and other notable figures traveling within the
United Kingdom. That decision was taken, of course, shortly after Prince Harry and his wife, Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex, made the decision in
2020 to step down as working members of the royal family and to relocate to the United States.
Now, Prince Harry's legal representatives have long argued that the Duke of Sussex and his family still require that highest level of security detail,
which is, of course, funded by the British taxpayer. And Prince Harry has been very vocal around his concerns for the safety and security of his
family while traveling. They do, of course, have their own private security detail while in the United States. Of course, they do reside permanently
now in California.
But, the legal representatives for the Home Office have stated in court that Prince Harry's protection privileges have not necessarily been
revoked, but rather they have been downgraded, and that security detail would be provided on a case-by-case basis, based off the fact that they
have now, of course, stepped down as working members of the royal family, but also, of course, because they do not reside in the United Kingdom
permanently. So, that decision has been upheld now by the Court of Appeal here in London.
And of course, this is a deeply personal issue for the Duke of Sussex, who has long campaigned against press intrusion within his personal life and
the personal lives of the royal family, and of course, has expressed frequent concern over that intrusion and what that would mean for the
safety and security of his family, including his wife, Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex, and his two young children, Archie and Lilibet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Nada Bashir for that report.
All right. Still ahead for us, Mike Waltz is now out as U.S. National Security Advisor, what Trump's first major White House shake-up means for
national security, when we return.
ASHER: Yeah. Waltz's creation of a Signal chat group that accidentally included a reporter may have sparked his ouster. Is he still using Signal?
We'll talk to an Atlantic writer --
GOLODRYGA: It looks like him using Signal right there.
ASHER: -- about that controversy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: All right. Some breaking news to bring you. Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney will be meeting with President Trump next week.
[11:15:00]
Now, the meeting comes in the middle of Trump's tariff war, which has hit Canada hard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: Today, I had a very constructive call with President Trump, and we agreed to meet next Tuesday in Washington. Our
focus will be on both immediate trade pressures and the broader future economic and security relationship between our two sovereign nations. My
government will fight to get the best deal for Canada. We will take all the time necessary, but not more in order to do so. In parallel --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: As we have been reporting, anti-Trump sentiment in Canada helped propel Carney to his election victory earlier this week.
Well, U.S. President Donald Trump says that when he has a problem, he calls on his Secretary of State. Now he is tapping Marco Rubio to take on a new
interim role as National Security Advisor.
ASHER: Yeah, after Mark -- Mike Waltz, rather, was removed from his post on Thursday. This comes weeks after Waltz mistakenly added a reporter to a
Signal chat about planned U.S. military strikes in Yemen. Just this week, Waltz was photographed in a cabinet meeting appearing to scroll through
Signal. The White House responded, saying the app is approved for use on government phones. Trump says he'll nominate Waltz to be the U.S.
Ambassador to the UN. Vice President Vance calls that a promotion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: Why was Mike Waltz let go?
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, he wasn't let go. He is being made Ambassador to United Nations, which, of course, is a Senate
confirmed position. I think you can make a good argument that its promotion. Donald Trump has fired a lot of people. He doesn't give them
Senate confirmed appointments afterwards. All
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: All right. Let's begin our coverage of this first major White House shake-up with Kylie Atwood. Kylie, can't really describe this as a
major surprise. There had been a lot of rumblings as to whether or not Mike Waltz would ultimately keep his job following the Signalgate crisis and
scandal, but nonetheless, it came yesterday unexpectedly.
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. That's right. And as you note, the writing was on the wall for Mike Waltz. For some time, folks
were talking about who might follow him as National Security Advisor to President Trump. But, when the news came yesterday, it was certainly a
surprise to folks here in this building at the State Department that the current Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, was going to now be assuming as
well the interim role as National Security Advisor. It came just hours after there was an event at the White House in which President Trump
pointed to Rubio and said, when I have problems, I call on Marco, just demonstrating the closeness that they have developed, how much he has grown
to rely on Rubio over the course of the last few months of the administration.
But, here in this building, when this did happen, the State Department briefing was unfolding, and President Trump wrote on Truth Social what
Rubio's new role was going to look like, and the spokesperson, Tammy Bruce, was certainly taken aback. Just watch how she responded when I asked her
about the news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ATWOOD: Do you know how long --
TAMMY BRUCE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: Yeah.
ATWOOD: -- he is going to be serving in both roles?
BRUCE: It is clear that I just heard this from you. I had -- this is -- the magic --
ATWOOD: You didn't know heads-up that this was --
BRUCE: Well, I have some insights as to the potential of certain things that might happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ATWOOD: Now, the Secretary of State had already made it an intention of his primary goal to spend quite a bit of time over at the White House. He was
there multiple days a week. He was very cognizant of the reality in the Trump administration that proximity is everything. So, he is obviously
going to be spending even more time there. There are some questions about how he is going to be able to juggle both of these jobs. Obviously, these
are two of the most important jobs in any administration, but they're also very different jobs. Of course, they have to do with foreign policy.
But, the Secretary of State is inherently America's top diplomat. It is an incredibly important role on the global stage. It's really public-facing.
And then the National Security Advisor works with the President to round out, to come up with what the foreign policy is going to look like, to work
with the interagency to actually implement that foreign policy objective. So, these are two critical roles and very different. The Secretary of State
-- Tammy, the spokesperson, said that he wouldn't have taken this job if he didn't think that he could do both of them. But, how he begins to balance
these roles will be something that we will watch incredibly closely.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. I have to go back to Henry Kissinger, the last time that a Secretary of State wore the same hat, also as a National Security Advisor.
That under President Nixon, of course. And Kylie Atwood, I have to say the hallmarks of a stellar reporter breaking news, not only for our viewers,
but for the spokesperson at the State Department as well.
[11:20:00]
Well done, Kylie.
ASHER: I was really caught off guard, actually. Kylie Atwood live for us there. Thank you.
All right. Let's take a closer look at Mike Waltz, his popularity, and compare him to past. Who do we have here?
GOLODRYGA: Harry.
ASHER: And you have both roles together.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: I know. It's about time.
GOLODRYGA: Same time zone.
ASHER: Yes.
ENTEN: Just -- it's such a magical Friday. Sometimes everything kind of comes together, doesn't it?
ASHER: It does, but not if you're Mike Waltz this week. Just in terms of his popularity compared to past national security advisors, what can you
tell us?
ENTEN: Yeah. If we're making the right type of history on this broadcast, then Mike Waltz made the wrong type of history this past week, and he has
been making the wrong type of history when it comes to the polling data. What are we talking about here?
Well, take a look here, net approval for different national security advisors. I looked at every single one of them that I could possibly look
at since the position was created back in 1953, and we got a few of them on the screen right here. Three are perhaps the most prominent of the 21st
century. And you'll notice who has the lowest one by far. Oh, my God, Mike Waltz, minus 18 points. John Bolton was in the positive territory, of
course. Remember, he served in the first Trump administration. Condi Rice, by the end of her term as the National Security Advisor, was at plus 33
points.
If you look at Mike Waltz's number, there is not anywhere even in the same ballpark in terms of the negative rating that Mike Waltz has, at minus 18
points. You mentioned Henry Kissinger in the last segment. His was well north of plus 20 points. Mike Waltz, way, way, way under water.
Now, of course, we're talking about history here, but let's take a look at some of the other folks who are in the Trump administration, right? We'll
take a look at the net approval ratings for the different security officials, right? We mentioned Marco Rubio, Pete Hegseth, Mike Waltz, look,
it's basically the same story here. Mike Waltz the least liked out of any of them at minus 18 points. Pete Hegseth, who actually is the least liked
Secretary of Defense, since you have to go back to Donald Rumsfeld, back, of course, in about 2006. But, even there, Pete -- look at this. Pete
Hegseth, minus 12 points, not nearly as bad as Mike Waltz. Of course, Marco Rubio, the new National Security Advisor, far better like that even. He is
perhaps the most liked person of the Trump administration when you look at the polling data.
Of course, ladies, the polling data is one thing, right? But, of course, there is another type of history. It's not just that Mike Waltz is the
least popular national or was the least popular National Security Advisor ever when it came to his net approval rating, but it's also the amount of
time that he spent in the role, the shortest stints for a National Security Advisor. Well, the good news is that Mike Waltz is not the shortest ever.
That actually belonged to Michael Flynn, who served, get this, just 24 days in the first Trump administration, the early part of 2017, but he served
the second shortest time, only 101 days. No one else is even close to it, except for Michael Flynn.
So, the bottom line is, Trump wanted him getting the heck out of there because he was a drag on the administration. No good. No good. That is the
simple pollster terminology when it comes to Mike Waltz's popularity, and Trump said, you're going to make another type of history as well, as be the
second shortest stint for a National Security Advisor, although I might have to say the fact that both of them belong to Trump, perhaps doesn't
speak too well of his ability to hire national security advisors. But, the good news is, as I said at the beginning, he is making the wrong type of
history. But, I hope in this segment, ladies, we made the right type of history.
ASHER: How did I know you were going to go there?
ENTEN: She coughed.
ASHER: I -- like, literally I was waiting how he was going to connect back with us.
(CROSSTALK)
ASHER: Yes.
ENTEN: I had to. I had to.
GOLODRYGA: The magic of Harry Enten.
ENTEN: You know that I want to applaud people who are good and smart at their jobs and kind people overall, and I am going to do that every single
chance that I get.
ASHER: Can I -- I want to have you write that in a little note, and I'm going to frame it and keep it by my desk. Just every time I don't feel
good. I'm going to read the note by Harry Enten in my office. That will be great.
GOLODRYGA: And you can CC bosses on that too, Harry.
ENTEN: I will do it, and I will do it at Harry's Blackboard after this segment. OK?
ASHER: Harry --
GOLODRYGA: Thank you so much.
ASHER: Thank you.
ENTEN: Bye everyone. Have a lovely Friday.
GOLODRYGA: We'll see you Monday, Harry.
ENTEN: See you.
GOLODRYGA: Well, joining us now to discuss all of this is Michael Scherer of The Atlantic, the outlet that broke the Signalgate story. Michael is one
of three Atlantic journalists who interviewed the President just a week ago at the White House. He joins us now live from Washington, D.C.
Michael, good to see you. Listen, you set the groundwork up for what was apparently inevitable, and that was Mike Waltz losing his job as National
Security Advisor. This really insightful interview that you conducted along with your colleagues with President Trump took place in March, but even in
March, you've written, "To date, no one has been fired over Signalgate, though advisors we spoke with privately predicted that National Security
Advisor Michael Waltz, who inadvertently added The Atlantic's editor-in- chief to the attack planning chain would exit the administration by the end of year, if not much sooner."
[11:25:00]
Well, it was much, much sooner than that, but also worth noting that this happened, and some of your colleagues also pointed this out, after the
first 100 days of Trump's presidency here. So, there seemed to be really a concerted effort not to have some of the chaos that we saw with sort of the
revolving door of advisors and cabinet officials that were fired during the first term, but now a bit more orderly during the second term. Talk about
the decision-making that went on behind the closed doors for this firing.
MICHAEL SCHERER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: There is really three categories of reasons that Mike Waltz is out at the White House. The first
is that he had alienated people inside the White House. He -- people told us that he treated himself like a principal, not like staff. He wouldn't
come to certain meetings. He didn't invite other people to other meetings. There was just a tension in his interpersonal behavior at the White House.
Secondly, there were a bunch of outside supporters of the President who worried publicly that Waltz was not ideologically on the same level as the
President and would maybe move him in a more hawkish direction. And though that chorus kind of grew louder over time, especially after the Signalgate
scandal, which would be the third reason, President Trump made very clear in the days after we reported that my boss had been added by Mike Waltz to
a Signal chain to discuss war planning, that he didn't want to feed the story and the President and the other cabinet secretaries' response was to
attack The Atlantic, to attack my boss, to say the story was unfair somehow, even though it was totally factual.
And with time, we noticed that Trump was changing his tune on that scandal. When we went to the Oval Office last week, he made a point of inviting
Jeffrey Goldberg to come with us, and he was actually in some ways praising our success at breaking that story and getting attention for that story. We
asked about Pete Hegseth, who also was the one who shared war plans in that Signal chat. He was defensive of Hegseth. He said he was going to get it
together. When we asked about Mike Waltz, though, Trump's response was, he is fine. He is fine. He was just here in the Oval Office, and he got beat
up over that. It wasn't a ringing endorsement. So, I think the writing definitely was on the wall.
ASHER: OK. So, he said he is fine. He is fine. But, obviously, a month ago, he was essentially saying, Mike Waltz is a good man.
SCHERER: Yes.
ASHER: He made his mistake, and he has learned a lesson from this. Obviously, you touched on the fact that Pete Hegseth, he was defending Pete
Hegseth, essentially, I mean, could that change? I mean, if you are Pete Hegseth and you're seeing Mike Waltz being ousted partially over this,
obviously Laura Loomer is another influence in all of this, but if you are Pete Hegseth, are you secure at this point? Should you be worried?
SCHERER: I think if you're Pete Hegseth, you know you can't keep making mistakes that caused public embarrassment. So, Hegseth has the Signal chat.
There has been reporting that he also shared the plans for attack on the Houthis in another Signal chain with his wife and his personal lawyer. He
has had significant turnover in the Pentagon among the senior staff, and that has led to a number of stories, now that those staff are outside the
building, including that he installed a makeup room for himself to do press at the Pentagon, not the kind of headlines that the President wants.
So, I think for now, Hegseth is safe. Trump continues to support him; continues to say he is doing a good job; wants to keep him in the role,
apparently. We haven't heard anything different. But, I think it's also fair to say that no one is -- has the President's full loyalty
indefinitely. There is the guy who goes through staff pretty quickly, and more blunders, more embarrassments, could lead to him leaving. And the
other thing we know about Trump is he doesn't like firing people in a way that makes it look like reporting was what did it. He likes giving it time.
So, that could happen again with Hegseth.
GOLODRYGA: Pete Hegseth, we should note, still very popular in the MAGA world, something that Mike Waltz never --
SCHERER: Right.
GOLODRYGA: -- had that type of support in. Somebody else whose star has really risen thus far early in this administration is Marco Rubio. How far
we've come from Trump lambasting him during debates as little Marco, now he is the man he says that he calls when there is an issue, and the fact that
he has awarded him, at least during an interim basis, not only Secretary of State role, but also National Security Advisor. Talk about what led to this
renewed confidence in Marco Rubio from the President.
SCHERER: Well, it hasn't been easy for Rubio either. Rubio came in as Secretary of State, but then immediately found that Steve Witkoff, a close
friend of the President, was going to be basically the envoy to the Middle East, the envoy to Russia to do negotiations over the Ukraine war, and the
envoy in the negotiations over Gaza.
[11:30:00]
And at the same time, he had Elon Musk on the other side of him coming in and cutting his staff at USAID, which is sort of within the State
Department's purview, and then coming into the State Department, and there was actually a blow-up in the Cabinet Room more than a month ago in which
there was a confrontation between Rubio and Musk over who should control who is being fired. I think it is also fair to say, though, that Rubio has
played but wasn't a great hand very well, and has kept the confidence of the President, and has made clear that he is devoted to the President's
agenda, is executing on it, is actually able to run a process, is able to run a department in a way that maybe some others have had had trouble.
So, for the moment, Rubio has the ball. Rubio also has the title as Acting Chairman of the National Archives, which is a totally different kind of job
and a significant job, but usually one that's not given to someone who is also wearing two other hats. Now, there is a problem that I think over time
could come up here. The National Security Advisor is the honest broker that's supposed to run a process that brings together the intelligence
community, the Pentagon, the State Department, all the other assets of the government to make foreign policy decisions.
When you have one of the principals, the head of the State Department, doing that, you have the possibility for a breakdown in that process. The
Pentagon will feel they're being heard. The CIA might not feel they're being heard. And so, Rubio is in a delicate position. The other thing is,
we don't know who Rubio's deputy will be yet at NSC, whether it will be a permanent deputy brought in. So, that's another open question we're waiting
to find out.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Michael Scherer, thanks so much.
ASHER: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: You broke down a lot for us. Appreciate it.
ASHER: Appreciate it.
SCHERER: Thank you.
ASHER: All right. Still to come, a closer look at that newly released jobs report, and we'll talk about what it means for the economy. We're going to
be bringing in Diane Swonk, Chief Economist at KPMG.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right. Welcome back to One World. I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Here are some of the international headlines we're watching today.
ASHER: All right. In Vatican City, crews have been on the roof of the Sistine Chapel today, putting up the chimney that will signal when the next
Pope has been chosen. When white smoke emerges, that means cardinals have elected a new pontiff. The cardinals will gather for that secretive
conclave on Wednesday.
GOLODRYGA: An aid ship bound for Gaza issued an SOS early Friday after it claims was a drone attack off the coast of Malta. Free Flotilla coalition
is blaming Israel, but hasn't provided evidence to support that claim. Israeli military has declined to comment. CNN cannot independently verify
these images.
ASHER: The Duke of Sussex, Prince Harry, has lost a court challenge to the British government's decision to downgrade his security arrangements while
in the UK. His security detail was downgraded after he gave up royal duties. Prince Harry argued he was being singled out and that the move was
unjustified.
GOLODRYGA: The U.S. jobs report for April is out, and it shows the nation's economy added 177,000 jobs. That is stronger than expected. Unemployment
held steady at 4.2 percent. The new numbers come amid economic uncertainty stemming from tariffs and trade wars.
ASHER: All right. Joining us live now for a closer look at that report is Diane Swonk, Chief Economist at KPMG. Diane, so good to see you. You and I
were talking about this last night. The 177,000 jobs added, coming in stronger than a lot of people had been expecting. This number is certainly
a pleasant surprise for the Trump administration. Just in terms of some of the sectors that you and I talked about yesterday, we haven't really seen
the effects of tariffs just yet in some of these sectors, but that doesn't mean that we won't further down the line.
DIANE SWONK, CHIEF ECONOMIST, KPMG: Exactly, especially in warehousing and transportation, that actually added 29,000 jobs during the month, and this
survey was taken earlier in the month. That's -- the week of the survey was very early in the month, and anything that was on the water was not subject
to the additional tariffs that we saw, particularly on China, and that trade has since then come to a near standstill. So, we will see some
weakness in those numbers going forward.
We also saw federal employment. We've shed 29,000 jobs since the beginning of the year, but many of those federal employees are on administrative
leave. Many took buyouts. They're still counted as employed, even though technically they don't have a job.
The more worrisome numbers were the ranks of the permanent unemployed, which went up to the highest level since October 2021, and that's when we
are seeing job -- those numbers fall as the job market was recovering from the pandemic-induced recession. We also saw those who were out with more
than 27 weeks of unemployment rise and swell to much higher levels than we saw pre-pandemic. They're about 32 percent above what we saw in 2019, and
that's more worrisome in terms of why we're seeing some undercurrent in confidence surveys that we're seeing out there from the Conference Board
and from the University of Michigan regarding job security.
GOLODRYGA: And as we've noted, Diane, this is sort of a backward-looking forecast here. The data that we've had, obviously, is for the previous
month of April, and that was just the month where our Liberation Day was announced. These tariffs were just announced. So, looking ahead, the fact
that you have a number of CEOs from a large swath of sectors really just skipping out and ignoring guidance now and forecasting for the rest of the
year, because they just don't know what to expect as it relates to these tariffs, anecdotally, you hear more and more saying the only thing they can
control is belt tightening, have you ever seen a situation like this? Perhaps we can go back to the early days of the pandemic where those types
of models haven't led to significant job losses months down the road.
SWONK: This is something we're very worried about, and there is a great similarity here with the pandemic and the abruptness of what happened in
the month of April and the disruptions that were already seen. The ISM manufacturing survey actually showed, which was later in the month, showed
input prices up and layoffs up as well. That's the very definition of stagflation, and that's what we're very concerned about, and that's what
the Federal Reserve is concerned about as well, which is why they're not going to be cutting rates in May, even though the job market is solid and
inflation looks like it's cooling. That's pre-tariffs, and I think that's very important to remember.
We also know that many of the clients we're talking to, and we did a little bit of a survey, over two thirds were saying they're at least minimally
hiring freezes, minimally. That is important as well, because if you're not ramping up when you usually do, or you're not filling jobs that are open,
that will show up as a decline going forward.
[11:40:00]
So, this is all backward-looking data, and we are very concerned about seeing red ink once we get into May and June.
ASHER: And Diane, how concerned are you specifically about retail jobs in this country? Because retail is a bit of a tricky one, because on the one
hand, it obviously fluctuates just in terms of whether it's holiday season or not. Sometimes there are strikes in retail. And then you have a
situation whereby, because of E-commerce, retail jobs are just not where they used to be. Brick and mortar stores are closing left and right in this
country. You and I talked about the fact that Forever 21, for example, is going bankrupt, that Macy's doesn't have the same footprint that it used
to, and then you have a trade war with China whereby a lot of these retail companies rely on China for goods. What do you think that's going to do to
retail jobs by this summer, let's say?
SWONK: I think it's going to be very difficult. We're talking to retailers out there, and retailers are trying to sort of -- they talk about their
manufacturers take absorbing a third of the cost of tariffs, them absorbing a third, and then a third going on to consumers. Well, if they're absorbing
a third, they're going to have to, one, it's not clear consumers will be able to pay all of those increases in prices, but if they're absorbing a
third, that means reductions in force, and that's what they're telling us. And so, we do think that is where we're going to see jobs shed more. And
it's already been. As you mentioned, the shift from in store to online has already sort of shrunk in the number of people you need to have per square
foot, and that's important as well for retail workers.
I think what's also important here, though, is this sits online as well. We saw the de minimis, that's a big word for all of the things that are coming
in. As of today, all of the things that got shipped in directly from China that were very, very inexpensive on these online platforms and got in
through other online platforms are now not only facing 145 percent tariffs, but also additional fees in terms of their shipping fees, which have
doubled from $100 to $200 per package. That makes it just prohibitive for them to come in, which means a shedding of jobs there as well.
And of course, small businesses are the ones that have the least margin to absorb, as they're trying to deal with this. And I've talked to many small
businesses, which these reports, these employment reports are very slow to capture. They capture them on revisions. Those small businesses we saw in
the ADP report, they're the ones shutting jobs right now.
ASHER: Yeah. And ADP came in at, what, 62,000 this time around. And so, a lot of people were looking at that, thinking that does not bode well for
this jobs report, and then this jobs report ended up being a complete surprise.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah.
ASHER: Diane Swonk, good to see you, my friend. Thank you so much. Appreciate that.
SWONK: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Thanks, Diane.
Still to come for us, as tensions simmer between India and Pakistan, the U.S. Vice President is voicing words of caution, what he is saying to the
nuclear-armed neighbors.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: The United States is urging India and Pakistan to show restraint in the wake of a terror attack in the India-administered area of Kashmir.
Terrorists killed 26 people last month, the vast majority of them tourists.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. The U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth set spoke to Indian Defense Minister on Thursday to express his deepest sympathies for
the attack. There has been growing concern among residents in the border area between India and Pakistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUHAMMAD JAMEEL, RESIDENT, HARPAL, PAKISTAN (Interpreted): Both governments should sit with each other, because war is not the solution to any problem.
And if there is still war, we will stand here with our army side by side and fight side by side with them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: CNN's Nic Robertson joins us live now from Islamabad. So, Nic, what does de-escalation look like at this point?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: De-escalation is happening sort of at a diplomatic level. You've had the Pakistan Foreign
Minister meeting today with both Saudi, Emirati and Kuwaiti ambassadors, and with a view to those countries involvement and their views about a de-
escalation. You have obviously had this high intensity U.S. effort beginning late Wednesday, Secretary of State Marco Rubio then, as you were
saying there, Hegseth, Pete Hegseth, the Defense Secretary, speaking with his counterpart in India, and most recently, overnight, J.D. Vance speaking
about the hope that India takes a path that doesn't lead to a wider regional escalation, the hope that Pakistan should, where it can, support
India crack down on the terrorists.
The view from here is that the diplomacy of the U.S. and these other countries is effective. It is what they want to hear, that this is policy
that is the right policy for the region. But, the reality is, at a sort of a military and political readiness level, if you will, senior leadership
here inside Pakistan still believes that India is a threat, that it is about to attack. Indeed, one senior official told me earlier today of what
they believed to be, CNN can't independently verify, but what they believe to be an imminent Indian Air Force attack in the early hours of Wednesday
morning, four fighter jets seen going towards the Indian side, or rather, towards the Line of Control inside India, not crossed into Pakistan,
diverted back to an airbase. Pakistan fighter jets were in the air on their side of the border at the time.
I think that's an indication of the -- where the military part of the tension exists. But, Pakistan's interpretation of the movements of those
Indian fighter jets was that they were coming for a strike. Now, India has denied that they are in the throes of about to strike against Pakistan.
But, the perceptions, I think, are key, and for that perception reason, that Pakistan perceives that India was trying to attack them, perceives
that it will attack again in the coming days. And then after that perceived attack early Wednesday morning, you get the high-level U.S. and other
diplomacy. I think that speaks to the concern that's being read by the international community about how they see Pakistan interpreting what's
happening on the ground.
ASHER: All right. Nic Robertson live for us there in Islamabad. Thank you so much.
We'll be right back with more after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: OK. We're going to return now to our breaking news out of Canada. Prime Minister Mark Carney announcing that he will meet with
President Trump next week. The meeting comes in the middle of Trump's tariff war, which has hit Canada hard. Now, Carney just gave a press
conference where he outlined how he plans to negotiate a new trade agreement with President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARNEY: -- he respects, as others who are good negotiators and he is one of the best negotiators. They respect strength. That's why we're building
Canada strong. There is lots of reasons to build Canada strong, but the point is, and I will make this point repeatedly, we have more than enough
to do here at home. That point about we can give ourselves more than the Americans can take away is absolutely right.
We can have a bigger boost to our economy, to incomes, to jobs, by focusing on building one Canadian economy, by building these nation-building
projects, by focusing on getting productivity up, by reducing government waste, by driving investment in this country. And so, that is a good in and
of itself. We're going to focus on that while we have these negotiations with the Americans, and if the negotiations with the Americans take longer,
so be it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Paula Newton was at that press conference, and joins us now live from Ottawa. And Paula, what's so fascinating about this is you see a
difference in tone, and you see a difference in delivery and topics from this newly elected Prime Minister. He is not campaigning anymore. Now it's
governing time, and now it's time for pragmatism, and now it's time to go face to face, literally, with President Trump, who arguably put him in that
position where he is right now. Talk about what stood out to you from the Prime Minister.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. In a way, we have to say that it was one of his own friends actually posted on social media the other week that
Prime Minister Carney perhaps owes his prime ministership to Donald Trump. Perhaps the Prime Minister would say that's going a bit too far. But, you
are absolutely right. Look, Bianna, he needs to go into that negotiating room, the Oval Office on Tuesday. He made sure to lay the groundwork for
that by saying, look, we know there are going to be tough negotiations. He did not lay any conditions, but crucially, he also threw some sun Donald
Trump's way, right? He said, look, he is a strong negotiator. And I think that sets the table also for expectations.
He made a fairly clever joke. He said, look, don't expect any white smoke, right, from the Oval Office. This is going to take a long time. He said,
maybe elsewhere, but not the Oval Office next week. He is certainly laying the groundwork for this and obviously lowering expectations, but letting
the White House and the President know that he does need to negotiate. He said several times, in fact, that he understands what Donald Trump is
trying to do for his economy, for his voters, but he is saying, don't hold it against us when we get to the table with an equally hard bargain.
And when he talks about what we have to do here at home, certainly, Canada is a very large country, very diverse, even economically, and there are a
lot of provincial trade barriers even within this country. And he is saying, look, let's get our own house in order and see. I will say, though,
completely tempered by the fact that we've already had auto layoffs this morning at a GM plant.
[11:55:00]
Significant. There will be hundreds of job loss, and this will get harder and harder, this line, Bianna, for the Prime Minister, as he continues on
this road to negotiation on this tariff deal. I do want to make clear, no big news, though, at the beginning of the press conference, King Charles
and Queen Camilla coming here to Canada to open parliament on May 25th and 26th. This is truly significant, and the Prime Minister underscoring that
and saying, look, this is a statement about our sovereignty, speaking directly to President Trump, but this issue about the 51st state, he no
longer wants to hear.
ASHER: Yeah. I mean, still, it is a big test for him, because, as you pointed out in the past, this is a man that doesn't have that much
experience when it comes to politics, and obviously he was Governor of the Bank of England and he ran the Bank of Canada. So, when it comes to the
economic angle of all of this, he is absolutely an expert. But, when it comes to negotiating, that is Donald Trump's domain. That is something that
Trump really does know how to do. So, we'll see what happens next week.
Paula Newton live for us there. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. We know what we'll be doing Tuesday. Paula, don't take the day off. We need you, important meetings days before that.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLODRYGA: All right. Stay with us. We'll have more One World after the break.
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END
