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One World with Zain Asher
CNN International: U.S. And Chinese Trade Negotiators To Meet In Geneva; Chinese Exports To U.S. Plunge Ahead Of Key Trade Talks; Leo XIV Celebrates First Mass As Pope In Sistine Chapel. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired May 09, 2025 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
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ZAIN ASHER, HOST, "ONE WORLD": All right. Top Trump officials are preparing to sit down with their Chinese counterparts for a critical meeting in
Switzerland.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, HOST, "ONE WORLD": One World starts right now.
As the President's trade war begins to hit home for both countries, are the two sides finally ready to cut a deal?
ASHER: And a historic day for the Catholic Church, as the first U.S.-born Pope performs his first mass as pontiff in the Sistine Chapel.
GOLODRYGA: Plus, a court hears from a shooting victim after he was killed. How AI helped his family confront his killer?
Hello, everyone. It's been a busy week. Happy Friday. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. You are watching One World.
After announcing a vague trade deal with the UK yesterday, Donald Trump's focus turns to a far more difficult task, calming the trade war with China.
That obviously he triggered.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. Negotiators from the two countries will meet in Geneva this weekend. U.S. officials say not to expect any breakthroughs, but maybe
there will be a de-escalation of the tariff battle. China released new trade data earlier today that shows how dramatically its exports have been
impacted by Trump's tariffs. CNN calculates that Chinese shipments to the U.S. fell by 21 percent in April, though China boosted exports to other
Southeast Asian countries to make up for the drop in trade with the U.S.
ASHER: Let's get the view from all of this from CNN's Alayna Treene, who is live for us from the White House. So, Alayna, what can we actually expect
realistically to come out of these talks tomorrow? Because when you think about it, U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent earlier this week started
sort of tempering down expectations. And what can we expect?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's exactly right, and that's the same thing I'm hearing in my conversations with senior Trump
administration officials, which is that they are trying to set the expectations low for this week, and the real goal is a de-escalation of
where they currently stand in this trade war with China. And they also recognize that this is the first real talks that are occurring between
Washington and Beijing, even though the President often liked to say that he is talking with China all the time. We know, and Treasury Secretary
Scott Bessent testified to this before Congress earlier this week that they have not had any substantial or significant talks when it comes to trying
to find a way out of this tariff war. And so, this is really what has been described to me by the White House as a good first step.
Now, of course, they are hoping there could be some sort of early win that they can point to, or any sort of tangible results they can point to,
following the discussions with Bessent and also United States Trade Representative Jamieson Greer and their Chinese counterparts in
Switzerland. But again, they're really trying not to set the bar too high for this.
But, despite all of that, I will say, we did hear directly from the President this morning, kind of touting what he would like to see. He
essentially wrote on Truth Social, quote, "80 percent tariff on China seems right. Up to Scott B", referring to his Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent
there. Essentially, that would be a massive change in what the United States currently has regarding tariffs on China. It's currently at 145
percent. China has a 125 percent tariff whenever it comes to the U.S.
So, again, that would be a huge deal. Not exactly sure if he ran that by some of the people who are actually going to be doing the negotiations in
Switzerland, because normally they don't want to have anything out there that they recognize they are working towards these negotiations. They like
to kind of see where they go behind closed doors.
All to say, I spoke with the Director of the National Economic Council, Kevin Hassett, this morning about this. He essentially said that we should
not expect any sort of movement in tariffs with China before they actually head into these negotiations tomorrow and Sunday. However, they added that
any sort of news we will get will come soon after those meetings.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. You can't overstate the difference in style and tone from these two countries and its two leaders, specifically President Xi in
China, to mark May 9th there, the parades with Vladimir Putin. President Trump sort of freewheeling and suggesting to his Treasury Secretary, not so
subtly, hey, I think we can get to 80 percent here.
[11:05:00]
Alayna, yesterday was a historic day for this administration in terms of announcing its first trade deal with the United Kingdom. The details of
that will be coming in the days and weeks ahead. But, the President does seem to view that as a turning point, does he not? I mean, he, in that
press conference afterwards, even said now is a good time to go buy stocks.
TREENE: Absolutely. No. I think that was really kind of the whole point of this. I'd remind you that, for weeks now, and we've been reporting on this,
that behind closed doors, a lot of people in the Trump administration were facing mounting pressure to announce any type of good news as it relates to
these tariffs and these trade talks.
The President had put pause on 90 days, but they knew very quickly that the clock was not only running out to get some of these deals done before that
deadline, but also to deliver good news to the American public that this trade -- these tariffs and this trade plan that the White House is pushing
is actually working and that they are making progress. And so, that's part of why you saw them really quickly come together to try and get the top
lines of this framework, really, not even a real deal just yet that was struck between the United States and the United Kingdom, and then he said,
more to come.
Now, interestingly, the President said that they are currently in deep negotiations with three other countries on trade deals. He said that he
expects some of the leaders from those different countries to come to the White House for an official signing, kind of like what we saw yesterday,
although, of course, the United Kingdom's Prime Minister was on speakerphone then. But, he wants to have the pomp and circumstance around
these announcements.
Now, I actually asked Kevin Hassett this morning about this. I said, do you think when he says you're talking to these three countries, that they refer
to the Indo-Pacific region, because that is what we've been hearing publicly and privately from economic advisors, that that would likely be
the next step, trade deals with India, Japan, South Korea, Hassett said, yes, I fully expect it to be one of those countries will be the next to
announce a trade deal. So, stay tuned for that.
And just one other quick thing on that note, when we talk about India, of course, we have to recognize that they're currently in this major conflict
with Pakistan. I asked Hassett if that's at all impacting the negotiations or the timetable around a deal with India, because I'd remind you as well,
they always said that they thought India would be the first that they would strike a trade deal with. But, all to say, Hassett said he hasn't had any
conversations about that. When I talked to White House officials, they say they think they can have these conversations on trade and then also on the
conflict, operating separately from one another. Zain, Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, and it's important to bring up and remind our viewers that we will be covering the growing conflict there, a lot of concern about the
escalation between India and Pakistan, later on in this show.
Alayna Treene, thank you so much.
With some more perspective on all of this, we are joined by Wendy Cutler. She was the Deputy U.S. Trade Representative under Barack Obama. She also
has experience dealing with China on the issue of trade and tariffs. Wendy, thank you so much for taking the time. OK. So, expectations are pretty low.
That's been set by this administration, as we just heard from Alayna. Is there any chance of a potential breakthrough that you think could happen
from these talks, just along the lines of restoring some sort of normalcy as it relates to trade between these two economic powers?
WENDY CUTLER, FORMER ACTING DEPUTY U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: Well, I'm not expecting any breakthroughs, but I think there will be conversations about
different scenarios for de-escalating tension and unwinding some of these tariffs. What I suspect is they'll have these conversations. Each side will
go back to their capitals, and perhaps an announcement could be made weeks, days later, but the final decision announcement, particularly in the U.S.,
will be made by President Trump.
ASHER: Talk to us about Trump's sort of negotiation style here, because obviously he is throwing around this idea that maybe we might see 80
percent tariffs, but I'll leave that up to Scott Bessent. That's something that he said on social media. I mean, obviously, 80 percent tariffs are
still crippling for both economies. You still can't do business at those kinds of levels. But, in terms of the strategy of floating that number out
there in advance of these talks, what sort of impact does that have on negotiations, do you think?
CUTLER: Well, I think it does have an impact. Number one, it suggests that Secretary Bessent has his mandate to do what he thinks is necessary in
Geneva. And second, it seems to be kind of playing with China a little, in that China starts -- it needs to think going to -- coming to Geneva, what
it is prepared to do. So, I think this introduces a little more uncertainty and kind of mixes things up going into the Geneva talks.
[11:10:00]
But, let's be honest. I think both sides are coming to these talks, and they each think that they have a stronger hand. The U.S. is looking at the
Chinese economy and growth rates projected to go down, and China is looking at the U.S. and thinking Trump is desperate for deals at this point, given
all the economic pressures on him. So, that's going to be another dynamic that I think will be very evident during these discussions.
GOLODRYGA: Wendy, Zain just laid out a potential strategy from the U.S. perspective. I'm just wondering how much do you read into China's strategy,
given that today, of all days, they released data showing that shipments out to the U.S. declined by 21 percent since these tariffs have been
announced, but were also supplemented, in a sense, by shipments to other Southeast Asian countries, in a way sort of creating a new trade
relationship, bypassing the United States, suggesting, hey, we can get along just fine without the United States, at least for now. What do you
make of that?
CUTLER: Yeah. I thought that the data was interesting. But, let's remember that the U.S. market is key for China. So, I wouldn't underestimate the
impact those numbers have on China. But also, let's be honest too, Southeast Asian countries and European countries in particular, that became
the destination for increased Chinese exports, are also under a lot of pressure to start restricting these Chinese imports, because they are
displacing workers and companies in those countries. And so, I think China, while they got through the data this week, I think there are a lot of
underlying currents and trends that don't work to China's advantage here.
ASHER: Just in terms of what else might be on the table, I mean, obviously they are going to talk about the headline number in terms of tariffs and
what the rate should be, but also in terms of concessions. I mean, obviously, electronics was initially carved out as potential concessions by
the Trump administration. What else? What other sort of concessions and carve-outs might we see in the interim until the final trade deal is
announced?
CUTLER: Well, one thing I'll be watching to see is whether either side has preconditions that they set before they're prepared to even dismantle some
of their tariffs. The U.S. has talked about wanting to have evidence that China is moving on our fentanyl concerns. China keeps talking about the
U.S. needing to show sincerity. So, that's going to be an important aspect of these talks. But, look, I think both sides are feeling the pressure.
They're coming to Geneva probably wanting to explore some de-escalation, and I would hope also that they start embarking on very informal -- in an
informal way on how both sides could actually negotiate some kind of accommodation going forward.
GOLODRYGA: Remember that the first meeting between U.S. and Chinese officials under President Biden, when he first came into office, was also
quite tense. I mean, not to this level in terms of the issues at play, but they had quite a tense meeting that was not viewed as very productive at
the time. Let's hope this one goes a little better for all of our sakes.
Wendy Cutler, thank you so much.
ASHER: Thank you, Wendy.
CUTLER: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: A new era begins for the Catholic Church, as the world gets to know the newly chosen Pope, Leo XIV.
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GOLODRYGA: On his first full day as pontiff, Leo celebrated mass in the Vatican Sistine Chapel for the cardinals of this week's conclave. His
inaugural public mass will be one week from Sunday.
ASHER: And in today's homily, the Holy Father called on the priesthood to show humility, echoing the same sort of approach of his predecessor, Pope
Francis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE LEO XIV, HEAD OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: I begin with a word in English and the rest is in Italian, but I want to repeat the words from the
responsorial psalm. I will sing a new song to the Lord, be He, because he has done marbles. And indeed, not just with me, but with all of us, my
brother cardinals, as we celebrate this morning, I invite you to recognize the marvels that the Lord has done, the blessings that the Lord continues
to pour out upon all of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: The first American Pope was born 69 years ago in Chicago as Robert Prevost. He is seen as certainly quite an international leader, not least
because he has dual citizenship in the U.S. and Peru, where he lived and worked for many years.
[11:15:00]
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. And in the past hour, Catholic bishops have been taking questions from the media in Rome and talking with warmth about the new
Pope.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILTON GREGORY, ARCHBISHOP EMERITUS OF WASHINGTON: I felt comfortable saying to Pope Leo, from one south side of Chicago to another, I promise
you my respect, my fidelity and my love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: CNN's Ben Wedeman joins us live now from Rome. So, Ben, obviously, it's only his first day on the job. It's been about 24 -- less than 24
hours since he was actually named Pope. But, just talk to us about some of the important decisions he has to make about the direction of the Catholic
Church at this point.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there is a lot of pressure on Pope Leo XIV to really try to mend fences with perhaps
the more conservative elements within the church who were unhappy, to a certain extent, under Pope Francis.
Now, what we've been seeing this afternoon at the Pontifical North American College, where seven American cardinals who participated in the conclave,
discussed the events of the last three days, and the election or appointment of Robert Prevost as, of course, Leo XIV, and what we're seeing
is that they see him as a bridge builder, somebody who perhaps can bridge the divide between conservatives and liberals and try to sort of calm the
waters within the Catholic Church. There was a feeling among many of the conservative elements that Pope Francis was a little too liberal, a little
too loose with traditions that many of the conservatives cherished.
But, I think what we're seeing, the fact that these seven cardinals are holding -- held this press conference at the Pontifical North American
College, which they did in the past. I'd attended a press event there by the American cardinals, but the Americans back then were a sort of a force
within the College of Cardinals, but not one that has brought forth the first American Pope. So, I think that we are going to see their concerns,
as we saw their language introduced for the first time into the proceedings of the Vatican, into the mass this morning in the Sistine Chapel. So, this
is going to add a certain different element to the workings of the Catholic Church that we haven't seen before.
And so, I said building bridges, perhaps trying to avoid a clash with the White House, even though some of those cardinals, for instance, Timothy
Dolan, the Archbishop of New York, is by and large, we understand, a friend of President Trump, and he insisted that the election of Leo XIV, Robert
Prevost, was not an election of a counterbalance to President Trump, that he is going to also going to be trying to reach out to all world leaders,
including the current resident of the White House. Zain.
ASHER: But, Ben, yeah, you bring up an important point about how Pope Francis -- there was a lot of people who, perhaps in the conservative wing
of the Catholic Church, who didn't take to Pope Francis, and so Pope Leo's job will be to absolutely unite everyone.
Ben Wedeman live for us there in Rome. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: And still to come for us, dozens of world leaders are in Moscow to celebrate 80 years since the defeat of Nazi Germany in World War II. A
look at the celebrations and the underlying message, just ahead.
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[11:20:00]
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ASHER: All right. Russia is celebrating one of the most important days on President Vladimir Putin's calendar, Victory Day. A huge military parade in
Moscow marks 80 years since the Soviet Union, along with its Western allies, defeated Nazi Germany in World War II.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. Putin stood next to his guest of honor, the Chinese leader Xi Jinping, as thousands of troops marched across Red Square. President Xi
is among 29 world leaders in attendance. Putin used his speech to praise the Russian forces fighting in what he calls the special military operation
in Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (Interpreted): Law and justice is on our side; the entire country; the entire united people, the competence of the
special military operation. We are proud of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Our Fred Pleitgen in is in Moscow with more. And, yes, quite symbolic to once again show his friends without limit. Xi Jinping standing
there at his side. It was about 20 years ago that we actually had U.S., Western leaders come to this event and honor it with Vladimir Putin. Things
have definitely changed since then. But, just talk to us about the symbolism, once again, of having someone like President Xi there with him.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it was extremely important for Vladimir Putin, not just to have Xi Jinping
there, but of course, 29 heads of state from other countries as well. But, you're absolutely right. There is absolutely no doubt that Xi Jinping was
the guest of honor, as Vladimir Putin said himself. He was sitting right next to Vladimir Putin, that both of them also were wearing those Russian
patriotic orange and black ribbons.
But then, also, if we look at the past two days that Xi Jinping has been on the ground here, Bianna, that has definitely been a show of force by these
two leaders, a show of friendship by these two leaders, and of course, also, in many ways, a signal to the United States and to U.S. President
Donald Trump that Russia and China are not going to be divided by the United States.
It was quite interesting, because I actually spoke to the Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, about that yesterday, and he said, look, the
friendship that these two men have, that Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping have for one another, is not against a third country.
But, of course, it does show that these two countries, in many ways, insulate themselves from any sort of pressures coming from the outside. Of
course, we know that Russia right now heavily relying on goods coming from China, while at the same time, the Chinese heavily relying on natural
resources coming from the Russians. And especially on a day like this where this parade took place, that, of course, as you mentioned, is highly
symbolic, but really important, of course, also for the nation here in Russia, 80 years since the defeat of Nazi Germany, to have Xi Jinping on
the ground here was definitely something that was very important for the Russians, very important for Vladimir Putin.
But, at the same time, we have been seeing the Russian leadership over the past couple of years also emphasize that there were also the leaders of
other countries coming as well, including some from Europe, like, for instance, Aleksandar Vucic coming from Serbia, and then also, of course,
the leader of Slovakia coming in as well.
So, that definitely is something important for the Russians to showcase, I think, on many levels. They wanted this to be a massive event seen by the
world. They said this would be the most grand parade to take place, as far as Victory Day is concerned, but at the same time, also show that, as far
as they are concerned, Russia is not isolated in the world. It might be isolated from the West, but certainly not isolated in the world, and that
there certainly are still the heads of state, like, for instance, from Brazil and many other countries as well, who do still come here and who
still -- do still very much value the relations with Vladimir Putin and relations with Russia as well.
[11:25:00]
I actually spoke to a senior Russian Senator, Konstantin Kosachev, about some of the things that U.S. President Trump has been saying, calling for
that 30-day ceasefire, threatening also sanctions if that ceasefire is not upheld, and he didn't seem too impressed by some of the threats coming from
Donald Trump. Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: Do you believe that President Trump can still broker a peace deal?
KONSTANTIN KOSACHEV, DEPUTY SPEAKER, RUSSIAN FEDERATION COUNCIL: He is most welcome. He is most welcome to do what he can do. But, of course, we have
our basic interest in this crisis, and we will not give up this interest just for the reason somebody in Washington or elsewhere thinks this or that
about the crisis. Thank you very much.
PLEITGEN: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: Senior Russian Senator Konstantin Kosachev talking to me earlier there today, as the Russians right now saying to them, their national
interests, as they put it, will come first.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Fred Pleitgen reporting live from Moscow. Thank you so much.
Well, Russia has declared a three-day unilateral ceasefire to coincide with its Victory Day celebrations.
ASHER: Yeah. But, the Ukrainians on the frontline say that Moscow's forces are repeatedly breaking their own truce.
CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has our exclusive report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): The clock strikes zero and nothing new comes.
"KIR", NATIONAL GUARD OF UKRAINE (Interpreted): Midnight.
WALSH (voice-over): The Kremlin promised 72 hours of their guns falling silent.
WALSH (on camera): They have to see if President Vladimir Putin was keeping his word at all.
WALSH (voice-over): They knew the answer, but the proof isn't far behind. This National Guard unit can see most of the eastern and southern front
line from one room.
WALSH (on camera): So, it's just saying, three minutes ago, and that will be about just three minutes into the ceasefire. Artillery shooting in the
direction of Pokrovsk, one of the hottest parts of the front line now.
WALSH (voice-over): Rocket launches, a rise in surveillance drones, but this is how it was at Easter when Russia last declared a unilateral
ceasefire.
"KIR" (Interpreted): That ceasefire was broken several times. The Russian Federation opened fire. They used the ceasefire to move their troops,
regroup, evacuate their wounded, rotate troops, bring in fresh forces and gather along the front line for further assaults.
WALSH (voice-over): But, they also share something remarkable, a window onto the future that's far from peaceful. Outside of most drones range,
this vast Russian camp has sprung up in just the last two weeks, an endless network of dugouts, tarpaulins, vehicles, possibly thousands of Russian
troops amassing to the south of their front lines, probably not for a summer of peace.
12 hours into the ceasefire, we joined this drone unit. Warfare in 2025 is just six men in goggles sitting in the bushes, feather light Styrofoam,
homemade drones with 40-kilometer range, smaller attack drones slugging it out in the skies. Nothing has changed with the ceasefire today here, but
the war itself seems to change with ingenuity every week. They now intercept the feeds of Russian drones themselves, see their enemy hunting
them.
WALSH (on camera): This is you watching them watching you.
"BANKIR", SECURITY SERVICE OF UKRAINE: Yeah.
WALSH (voice-over): Here is a Russian mortar strike on Ukrainians this morning, and a Russian attack on a Ukrainian vehicle at 05:00 a.m.
WALSH (on camera): So, when you guys hear all the talk of how the White House wants to make peace happen here, how do you react to that kind of
talk or idea?
"BANKIR": Maybe it will be better they give us real American weapons, and we will show how peace looks like, how to make the peace. Because they
attacked our house. Why we need to negotiate with somebody?
"PIXEL", SECURITY SERVICE OF UKRAINE (Interpreted): I'm from this current village. I'm born here. And my mother still lives here. And I'm here to
protect her.
WALSH (voice-over): Peace here, something simple and vital without tricks or limits.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, on the Eastern Front in Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: All right. Still to come here, India and Pakistan trade blame after days of drone attacks and artillery fire. An analysis of the situation, as
the world calls for restraint, ahead.
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[11:30:00]
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ASHER: All right. Welcome back to One World. I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Here are some international headlines we're watching today.
ASHER: Leo XIV led mass earlier today, and there he is making history, delivering the opening words of his homily in English. He urged the
cardinals in attendance to make themselves what he calls small, echoing the humble approach of the late Pope Francis.
GOLODRYGA: Jury selection in Sean "Diddy" Combs' sex trafficking trial has been delayed until Monday. The U.S. district judge in New York expressed
concern some possible jurors might get cold feet over the weekend. Now, this morning, we -- he struck two jurors from the prospective pool of 45
down to 43. The pool will arrive early on Monday, an hour ahead of when opening statements are due to begin.
ASHER: Two men have been found guilty on all -- on two counts of criminal damage for cutting down a landmark sycamore tree in northern England in
September of 2023. The tree then fell on Hadrian's Wall. The Sycamore Gap tree stood for more than 200 years and was made famous in Kevin Costner's
1991 film, Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.
GOLODRYGA: Retired U.S. Supreme Court Justice David Souter has died. The 85-year-old passed away on Thursday, the court announced this morning,
Souter was on the court for 19 years after being nominated by President George Bush in 1990, and retiring in 2009. Chief Justice John Roberts said
he served our court with great distinction.
Well, India and Pakistan are trading blame, days after New Delhi launched airstrikes on its neighbor in the wake of militant attacks in Indian-
administered Kashmir.
ASHER: Yeah. Today, India is accusing Pakistan of targeting 36 sites with 300 to 400 drones, a charge that Islamabad denies. Fear and panic have set
in on both sides of the border, as the fighting persists. Pakistan does acknowledge heavy shelling across the Line of Control in the disputed
Kashmir region, but says it is yet to stage a response to India's strikes on Wednesday.
[11:35:00]
GOLODRYGA: A Pakistani source says that his country is giving space for diplomacy before it responds.
ASHER: For a closer look at the situation, let's bring in Sajjan Gohel. He is the International Security Director for the Asia-Pacific Foundation and
an expert in terrorism. He joins us live now from London.
So, obviously this is not the first time that the two sides have been at the brink of a major war. Obviously they fought at least two wars in the
past, but the last time we really got to a situation like this was back in 2019. So, roughly around six years ago. Explain to us how the build-up is
different this time, do you think, Sajjan.
SAJJAN M. GOHEL, INTL. SECURITY DIRECTOR, ASIA-PACIFIC FOUNDATION: It's a really interesting question, Zain. So, if you look at what happened in
2019, that was the Balakot strike, when India carried out an airstrike on what they believed to be a Lashkar-e -- Jaish-e-Muhammad terrorist camp in
Pakistan, and Pakistan then responded. There was exchanges of fire between both countries. This time, it's a little different. You see that India has
carried out coordinated multiple strikes on terrorist camps in Pakistan belonging not just to the Jaish-e-Muhammad, but also to the Lashkar-e-
Taiba, to the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen. And I think what's happened since that 2019 incident is that India has normalized the idea of preemptive cross-
border strikes against non-state actors.
But, as we're seeing, this isn't actually ending. It seems to be escalating.
GOLODRYGA: We've also seen quite a disparity in terms of economic stability between these two countries since 2019 as well. India's economy has since
doubled in size, while Pakistan's does remain crippled, and we're also seeing less oversight, less influence from other countries, namely the
United States, over Pakistan, since withdrawing from Afghanistan. So, what are the other options, do you think, Western leaders should be making, and
what do they have in terms of trying to defuse the situation? Because at least publicly, we have not heard much from President Trump on this issue.
GOHEL: So, Bianna, it's interesting that U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, he has been speaking to both sides. It's kind of interesting the
statement that came out yesterday, in which he had spoken to the Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif, and he actually said that you need to take
more action against these terrorist camps inside the country. Now, keep in mind, as you mentioned, the economic dimension, Pakistan is currently
seeking a 25th IMF economic bailout, and the key entity in that is going to be the United States.
But, what we've also been seeing is how Pakistan has been relying less on U.S., focusing more on its relationship with China. China is now involved
heavily in Pakistan through the China- Pakistan Economic Corridor, which is part of the Belt and Road initiative. And then you also have other
countries, like the UAE and Saudi Arabia, of which Pakistan is heavily in debt too. So, there are other actors involved, and they can potentially
play a role to de-escalate.
ASHER: Yeah. And just in terms of strategies for de-escalation, one of the sort of easier ways, perhaps, for de-escalation is if one side retaliates
in such a way that they know that the other side doesn't need to have the last word. That is one way we might see a potential de-escalation. Can you
see that scenario playing out here?
GOHEL: Well, Zain, I was hoping that at some point that would be an off- ramp, that one of these countries would find it. You saw all those drone flying across western Indian states last night, and Pakistan is saying it
has nothing to do with them, which sounds odd, a bit bizarre. And they are actually saying that they have yet to carry out their retaliation.
So, it seems that Pakistan is still wanting to let this situation continue, and I think India itself has made it very clear that they will retaliate,
and we're already seeing knock-on effects. Both countries holding major sports events, have had to suspend them. It's going to impact on both
countries' economies, and it also has a much wider dimension, as it is bringing in the geopolitical aspects, the technological aspects, because
China has got a very interesting role in this, because they've been supplying Pakistan with the weapons that Pakistan has been using in this
conflict.
So, there is so many different dynamics, and we don't seem to be finding that off-ramp that I was mentioning.
GOLODRYGA: Perhaps there was too much optimism, initially, just a day or so ago when Pakistan announced the exact same death toll that had been
inflicted upon the Indian tourists two weeks ago that launched this latest back and forth in the escalation, and that is the number of 26. Since then,
though, I'm afraid, we haven't seen either side take that off-ramp.
[11:40:00]
And in fact, Pakistan now said, its military spokesperson said we will not de-escalate with India. That was said just today. What do you think the
next steps, or what will you be watching for in terms of next steps, as to how far both sides are willing to go?
GOHEL: Well, Bianna, it's a really important point, because every evening, everyone is bracing for what may come next. We've seen that every action
between these two countries seems to occur in the middle of the night, and I dare say that that is now potentially imminent. It will be eerily quiet
initially, and then there could be this cross-border shelling that's occurring. And as you mentioned, the cross-border shelling from both
countries in both parts of Kashmir is ongoing. The civilians are being directly targeted.
And I think it's important, though, that we have to remember why we got to the situation in the first place, which was the Pahalgam terrorist attack
on the 22nd of April, where you had dozens of Indian tourists that were killed, and they were separated based on religion, and that attack was
filmed and it was broadcast, and it became a very emotive issue. And I think it's just important that this act of terrorism seems to create the
problem between both countries, and ultimately, if the terrorist infrastructure continues to exist in Pakistan, we will never resolve this
issue one way or the other.
ASHER: All right. Sajjan Gohel live for us there. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: Thank you.
GOHEL: Pleasure.
GOLODRYGA: And still to come for us, confronting his killer from beyond the grave, a murder victim appears to deliver a statement during sentencing
using artificial intelligence, the first of its kind. We'll bring you that story, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: In a courtroom this month, an Arizona man who was killed in a road rage incident three years ago appeared to speak to his killer in court
from beyond the grave. Now, his family gave him a voice at the sentencing through a victim impact statement generated by artificial intelligence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The shame we encountered each other that day, in those circumstances, in another life, we probably could have been friends. I
believe in forgiveness and in God who forgives. I always have and I still do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Christopher Pelkey's sister Stacey wrote the script. Experts say it's the first of its kind, use of AI in court, as CNN's Clare Duffy
reports.
[11:45:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: This is a really fascinating story. Christopher Pelkey was killed in a road rage incident in 2021, and I spoke
to his sister, Stacey Wales, who said that she spent two years trying to write the victim impact statement that she would read in court, but
ultimately, she felt like she just couldn't say what he would have wanted to say, if he were still alive. And she also wanted to humanize him. She
said they saw his autopsy photos and video of him being shot and killed during the trial, and she really wanted to bring Christopher back to life
for the judge before he made that sentencing decision. So, she decided to create this AI video replica of Chris so that he could give his own victim
impact statement. Here is Stacey talking to our friends on CNN News Central this morning about why she decided to do this.
STACEY WALES, SISTER OF CHRISTOPHER PELKEY: The imprint that he left was one of Thanksgiving, Thankfulness, Forgiveness. And so, I just wanted to
think, well, what would he say in this moment? And there is no way that I could echo that, because it's not how I felt. And then I thought to myself,
well, why can't I just write my opinion piece on what he would say? And I thought it would be more impactful if we brought it to life the AI.
DUFFY: Now, when this video was played in court, the judge even said that he loved it. The state had asked for nine and a half years for the shooter
for manslaughter, and the judge ended up giving him 10 and a half years. And this is the first time that we've ever seen AI used in this way to give
a victim impact statement.
But, as I've talked to experts about this, they say that judges are increasingly going to have to decide whether and how to allow AI-generated
content as evidence, as victim impact statement, as this technology improves, and that they're really going to have to weigh the power and the
impact of this kind of AI-generated content over the possibility that it could preference or give an advantage to one side over the other.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Wow. A first of its kind. Indeed. That was quite stunning to watch.
All right. Still to come, the Trump administration makes more cuts to climate-related programs, how to move will make it next to impossible to
track the cost of natural disasters.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: The Trump administration has fired the acting Chief of the Federal Emergency Management Agency or FEMA.
ASHER: Yeah. Sources say that Cameron Hamilton was escorted out of FEMA's headquarters Thursday. His firing comes a day after he told lawmakers that
he does not support dismantling the agency.
[11:50:00]
Instead, he praised FEMA's staff and said he wanted to refocus the agency to deliver assistance after major disasters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAMERON HAMILTON, FMR. ACTING FEMA DIRECTOR: As the senior advisor to the President --
REP. ROSA DELAURO (D-CT): Yeah.
HAMILTON: -- on disasters and emergency management and to the Secretary of Homeland Security, I do not believe it is in the best interest of the
American people to eliminate the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
DELAURO: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Now, for months, both President Trump and the Department of Homeland Security have called for the agency to be, quote, "eliminated".
ASHER: And a database that tracks massive weather disasters that caused billions of dollars in damage is to be shut down. The move is part of the
Trump administration's efforts to cut federal funding for climate-related programs.
GOLODRYGA: The disasters database has allowed the public to track the cost of natural disasters since 1980.
Allison Chinchar joins us now live. Just walk us through the impact this all has on --
ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yeah. So --
GOLODRYGA: -- Americans, Allison.
ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Right. So, take a look at the map behind me. This is a map of last year, 2024, and all of the billion dollar
disasters that took place are highlighted by these dots, 27 in total, and they vary between tornadoes, wildfires, flooding and several hurricanes. In
fact, five separate hurricanes caused at least a billion dollars' worth of damage in the United States. But, these maps are going to go away.
Now, these maps are very important. It not only tells us how much damage a lot of these disasters cost, but where they take place, and it allows us to
look at trends year-over-year. For example, if we based where bad weather happens only off of this map, you would assume that bad weather never
happens in the Northeast or the Mid-Atlantic or really even out to the West. But, in reality, that was just the case for last year. If you go back
in previous years, they start shifting into different areas. So, it's very key for a lot of researchers and forecasters to see where a lot of these
big, damaging weather events are taking place. Are more of them becoming common in one area versus another? Or, in turn, are we seeing more of them
more frequently? And that's the thing.
So, these started back in 1980 tracking these billion-dollar disasters. The total since they began is more than 400 of them. But, when you break it
down by decade, you can see a clear pattern here. In the 80s, we had a total of 33 billion-dollar disasters, the 90s, that jumped to 57 billion,
67 billion the decade later, 131 billion the following decade, and most recently, now, just the last five years, we're already up to 115 billion,
and that's only five years' worth of data, versus a lot of these others, which were 10 years' worth of data. So, there is a clear trend here that we
are seeing more and more of these. And just to note, these are -- they do take into account inflation with these. It's not simply that the amount is
-- the amount of the dollar is going up over these years.
Now, the average since they began in 1980 is roughly about eight of these billion-dollar disasters per year. But, if you fast forward and just look
at the last five years alone, we have averaged 20 of these events every single year. So, there is a clear trend that more and more of them are
happening. It's also very important to look at the maps, as we mentioned earlier, to see where they are happening. The concern now is, without this
data, we won't be able to look at those trends and be able to help with forecasting models in the future.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. And it's important, as you note, to point out, as that dollar percentage, the amount goes up, that is inflation adjusted money
that we're seeing continue to increase in terms of how much this is costing the U.S. public.
All right. Allison Chinchar, thank you so much.
ASHER: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: Well, in Peru, some people are already calling Pope Leo XIV "Our Pope". He worked there for more than a decade and became a naturalized
citizen in 2015.
ASHER: Yeah. He has described it as his most influential life experience. Peru's President says this is really a historic moment for both her country
and actually the entire world.
Stefano Pozzebon has more from Peru.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The election of Leo XIV on Thursday was met with jubilation here in Peru, where the new Pope lived up until 2023.
Many of the people that we spoke with on Thursday afternoon shared words of joy and pride, a sentiment that the new Pope was one of them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (Interpreted): I feel very proud, because he represents us now in the Vatican, and I hope that he will stay there for long.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Interpreted): It was a surprise to learn that a Peruvian American Pope was elected. It was incredible news because nobody was
expecting this.
POZZEBON: Now, Robert Prevost, who chose the name of Leo XIV when he got elected as the leader of the Catholic Church, is still widely remembered
here in Peru, where he became a citizen in 2015, and the local office of migration even shared a copy of its identification to prove and share their
sense of pride that the new Pope is indeed a Peruvian citizen.
[11:55:00]
In particular, many here remember his support for workers' rights as the Bishop of Chiclayo, a city in northern Peru, where he lived for almost 10
years.
For CNN, this is Stefano Pozzebon, Lima, Peru.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: And we have learned much about the new Pope in the past 24 hours, including that he is a big fan of America's pastime. From the moment the
Chicago-born pontiff was named, people from the Windy City wanted to know, which baseball team does he support?
GOLODRYGA: Yeah. They've got two teams there. The Cubs struck first, congratulating the Pope and posting a sign that said he is a Cubs fan. But,
one of the Pope's own brothers chimed in and said, nope, not so fast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN PREVOST, BROTHER OF POPE LEO XIV: That's not true.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For how long has he been a Sox fan? Tell me about that.
PREVOST: I would -- as o long as I've known him, all along, we were both altar boys. So, that was one of the rewards that we got, was to go to a Sox
game.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: How more American does this get? The White Sox pounced on that news, then congratulating the Pope on picking their side in the turtle
White Sox versus Cubs debate. Now, the team was quick to print up a Pope Leo XIV jersey which the team is sending now to Rome. The White Sox added,
some things are bigger than baseball. We're glad to have a White Sox fan at the Vatican.
ASHER: Yeah. That tweet, well, would you look at that?
Stay with us. We'll have much more on One World after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
