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One World with Zain Asher
Trump has Suspended Aid and Expelled South Africa's Ambassador to the U.S.; Video Appears to Show Killing of Surrendering Ukrainian Troops; U.N.: The Limited Aid Israel Allows hasn't been Released; IDF Fires Warning Shots as Diplomats in West Bank; South African President to Meet with Trump at White House; Top Images Chosen for World Food Photography Awards. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired May 21, 2025 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST, ONE WORLD: Hello, everyone. Live from New York. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST, ONE WORLD: And I'm Zain Asher. You are watching "One World". A delicate diplomacy U.S. President Donald Trump is set to welcome
his South African counterpart to the White House in about 30 minutes or so from now.
GOLODRYGA: Now with relations between the two governments chilly Trump's meeting with Cyril Ramaphosa could see those ties improve or plunge them to
new depths. The relationship has deteriorated fast since Trump started his second term. He's accused the South African government of pursuing racist
policies against white citizens, even saying, without proof, that a genocide is taking place.
ASHER: Just last week, 59 white South Africans arrived in the United States to be greeted by senior American officials and quickly granted refugee
status. Trump and Elon Musk have claimed that whites in South Africa are facing persecution discrimination, something that the South African
government vehemently denies.
We are covering this important meeting from multiple angles. CNN's Larry Madowo joins us live now from Nairobi. Also, we have Kevin Liptak at the
White House for us. Larry, let me start with you, because there obviously are a number of issues that are being discussed during this meeting.
Obviously, trade is a big part of it. Aid to South Africa is another important aspect. But of course, this idea of granting refugee status to
white South Africans is a very sensitive issue, especially when you think about apartheid in South Africa and racial history. Just sensitivity around
race obviously very, very key in South Africa. Just walk us through this delicate dance that Cyril Ramaphosa is going to have to navigate today as
he deals with not just Trump, but Elon Musk in the room as well.
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Zain, this will almost certainly be confrontational unless President Ramaphosa decides to let it slide when
President Trump or Elon Musk or Vice President J.D. Vance bring out unfounded conspiracy theories about a white genocide in South Africa.
I spoke to President Ramaphosa last week, and he told me, I learned at the feet of Nelson Mandela, we do not discriminate on anyone on the basis of
race, and the people who were granted refugee status are a fringe group who would prefer the South Africa go back to apartheid and we are over that.
But he now has to go to President Trump in his own house and try and tell him that. The way the South Africans have framed this is that it's a reset
of their relationship, and President Ramaphosa has said he's going to clarify some aspects of their relationship.
Every world leader knows that the way to get a deal with President Trump is you go into his house and you essentially be nice to him and tell him how
great he is. And many other leaders have done that effectively. However, in the case of President Ramaphosa, if he allows President Trump or anybody
from the White House to go ahead and say these things, it will be terrible for him back home.
So, he has to correct in some way how he plays that is the difficult part. We have fact checked these claims there does not appear to be any evidence
of a white genocide in South Africa. Between April and December of last year, there were maybe 36 farm murders in South Africa, and less than five
of them were of farmers who tend to be white. So that is his task ahead of him today.
GOLODRYGA: Larry, stand by, because I do want to bring in Kevin Liptak. And Kevin from everything we have read, the president is expected, despite what
our reporting shows and what the facts may show, to press the South African President Ramaphosa to do more to protect Afrikaners, as we noted the
exception to their refugee status, as they were welcomed to this country just last week.
And the Elon Musk factor can't be overlooked, though, we should note that the president has been railing against land reform laws in South Africa
since 2018 before obviously his second term now in office.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, this has been something of a long-standing irritation between the president and leaders
in South Africa, but certainly it sorts of ramped up as Elon Musk became closer and closer to the president over the course of the last several
years.
And Musk will be in the Oval Office for the meeting today, but we do see ahead of time, this effort by the South Africans to in some ways, alleviate
some of the concerns. We understand that there has been a discussion underway about ways to allow Musk's Starlink internet service to operate in
South Africa as a way around some of these black ownership laws that are in place that have been sort of the crux of what Musk and by extension, Trump
about doing business in South Africa.
[11:05:00]
And so, you do see these attempts by Ramaphosa and by his allies in South Africa to sort of sow the seeds for a more fruitful meeting than perhaps
many would have expected. And certainly, I think the hope has for this meeting to avoid the sort of dressing down that we saw, for example, with
President Zelenskyy, which has now become sort of a cautionary tale for every foreign leader who comes through the White House that has these
points of irritation with the Trump Administration.
You also see the South Africans try and sort of enter this meeting on President Trump's favored ground. They fought in South African Professional
Golfer Ernie Els to sit in this meeting with President Trump as a way to kind of have one a friendly face, someone who knows President Trump well,
who has golfed with him frequently.
But also, a person who is an example of a successful white South African in post-apartheid South Africa, who was able to be -- you know quite a
successful person who wasn't hampered by what the Trump Administration say are racist laws. And so, all of this, I think, is an effort to try and mend
relations, to try and improve relations.
You know, on paper, this meeting is about trade, and you will hear talk about that in the talks today, South Africa looking to open up some of its
-- you know mineral and gas reserves to U.S. companies that also, hopefully in the -- in the view of Ramaphosa, an effort to improve ties with the U.S.
But it is, of course, these underlying racial issues that the Trump Administration has been going on so, so hard against that will, really, I
think, sort of overshadow any other talk that arises in this meeting.
ASHER: Larry, let me bring you back in, because obviously you and I just touched on this idea of 59 white South Africans being granted refugee
status. And not only being granted refugee status, but literally being greeted by American officials when they arrived, which rarely happens in
that kind of context.
But Bianna brought up a good point about the issue of land in South Africa, it's important to note that during apartheid, you had black South Africans
who were dispossessed of their land forcibly, and that land was given to white South Africans, and they have tried desperately in this country to
reverse that through expropriation laws.
Just walk us through how that is likely to come up? And what Cyril Ramaphosa is going to say about that to President Trump and also to Elon
Musk as well?
MADOWO: The issue of land is at the center of this conflict between South Africa and the United States. And President Ramaphosa signed this
controversial land seizure law in January, which allows the South African government to take over land without compensation. If that land is unused,
it is deemed to be in the public interest, and is just so far, it's not coming to effect.
So, no land has actually been expropriated as yet. This is a popular law in the country, because so much of the land, the majority of the land, is
owned by South Africa's white minority, while black South Africans own a very tiny percentage, some 2017, government figures said black South
Africans were the majority own only 4 percent of rural land in South Africa, while the white minority own about 74 percent of the land.
So, you see that massive that just huge difference, which is why this law is so important here. This has been a rallying call for Afra Forum. This is
a white African Lobby Group that's considered a white nationalist group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, and even they, when we interviewed them
yesterday, could not say there's a white genocide, but they fear that there is a genocidal call to kill the poor, kill the farmer.
This used to be an anti-apartheid song that's come up recently again because Julius Malema, of the Economic Freedom Fighters, the opposition
leader, has made it popular again. But they said this is a call against white nationalism. It is not a little call to kill the farmer. That is the
other title that President Ramaphosa has to try and explain in this Oval Office meeting without antagonizing his hosts and still hoping to do that
deal.
Because South Africa, the U.S., is South Africa's second largest trading partner after China, so they need to make this work somehow, despite the
animus and the distance between these two countries, and that is all because of the legacy of apartheid, which is why there's this disagreement
with Elon Musk, as Kevin was talking about, which is why the Ambassador was expelled, which is why the trade was -- is all in the balance right now
Zain.
ASHER: Cyril Ramaphosa used to be the negotiator for Nelson Mandela. So, you would think that when it comes to diplomacy, he has enough experience
to navigate this. But it is not going to be an easy task. You talk about land reforms in South Africa, the idea that 80 percent of the country, when
it comes to black South African's own just 4 percent of private land. I mean, the math just isn't nothing there.
[11:10:00]
All right, Kevindo -- Kevin I was mixed up...
GOLODRYGA: Kevindelo?
ASHER: Kevin Mandela yes.
GOLODRYGA: Yes.
ASHER: Larry Madowo and Kevin Liptak, thank you so much. Guys appreciate it. All right, that meeting between Trump and Ramaphosa is scheduled for
about half an hour from now. Obviously, you can be launching very closely to see what comes out of it, and our coverage at that time will include a
very special guest, Mmusi Maimane.
He is the Leader of the Build One South Africa Party and one of the country's leading advocates for cooperation between blacks and whites. He
used to be the leader of the Democratic Alliance, the opposition party for the ANC.
All right, as Russia comes under increasing pressure to pause its war on Ukraine, President Vladimir Putin making his first visit to Kursk, a
Russian border territory.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, Russian state media released video of him touring a nuclear power plant under construction there. It's President Putin's first
visit since Russia said it completely recaptured the region, part of which fell to a surprise Ukrainian offensive last August.
ASHER: CNN has obtained exclusive drone footage and radio intercepts appearing to show Russian troops executing a group of Ukrainian soldiers,
even though they just surrendered. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has the story, but a warning, images in the report we're about to show you are indeed very
graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Before even this moment of surrender, the fate of these six Ukrainian troops was sealed. Ukrainian drone images from the southern front
last November show the horror that comes after defeat.
A Russian hiding in the bushes shoots one Ukrainian in the head. Ukrainian officials gave CNN intercepts of Russian radio orders from their commanders
to their troops here. We can't verify them independently, but they help paint a chilling picture of what appear to be executions to order of a plan
to kill prisoners given from above.
The Russian in the bushes seems to fit a mask and then emerge. He's joined by another Russian. They talk there's no visible threat from their
prisoners, and one captive Ukrainian seems to gesture at them, but nothing changes his fate shot in the head, calmly, another Ukrainian gets up,
presumably the commander, and takes off his armor but the voice on the radio is impatient. The commander is led away. In total, six times the
order to kill was given, according to the intercepts.
WALSH: A forensic study for CNN the files and audio found no reason they weren't authentic, and a Western intelligence official described him to us
as, quote, credible. We've geo located the footage of the killing to this tree line just outside of Novodarivka in Zaporizhzhia region, where fierce
fighting raged late last year.
Ukrainian prosecutors say the executions of surrendering Ukrainian troops by Russians are increasing. They say they opened eight cases in all of
2023, 39 for all of last year and in just the first four months of this year 20.
YURII BIELOUSOV, OFFICE OF THE PROSECUTOR-GENERAL OF UKRAINE: It's a well- co-ordinated and well-planned policy and execution of prison software, as well as other war crimes which have been committed in Ukraine.
I think that goes up to the to the presence of Russian Federation, who, who, for example, when it was, the example of Kursk area, when they were --
when he conducted, like a military meeting or something, and when he said that we should treat them as terrorists, and everyone knows how Putin
treats people who they call terrorists, so it's almost synonym for us to execute.
WALSH (voice-over): The UN Special Rapporteur on Extradition Killing told CNN the executions would not happen in such numbers and frequency without
orders or at the very least consent from highest military commanders, which in Russia means the presidency.
Another video supplied to CNN by a Western intelligence official shows a similar scene, also from Zaporizhzhia. Ukrainians are surrounded and
surrendering to Russians with red tape on their helmets, but two others join them, white tape on their helmets. They appear to use their radios,
and then a white helmet opens fire.
As the smoke clears, a red reloads his weapon and shoots another Ukrainian in the head. There's no radio intercept here, but a Western intelligence
official told CNN the order to kill likely came from the white to the red.
[11:15:00]
Killings aimed at hitting Ukrainian morale, but also cynically, just at easing Russian logistics. This affects the morale and psychological state
of our guys he says. We have facts when the Russian military and political leadership directly gave verbal instructions not to take prisoners and to
shoot those captured on the spot, because it complicates military logistics from their point of view, a stark window into Moscow's mindset, surrender
means nothing, and mercy is not an option. Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kyiv, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: That indeed was very, very difficult to watch. Up next, Gaza is on the brink of famine. Palestinians, trapped by Israel's new offensive,
are fighting for any small bit of food that is coming in after the break, we look at efforts to change that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: All right, CNN has learned the U.S. has been talking with Hamas through an American intermediary in Doha this week.
ASHER: Yeah, that's the word from a source familiar with the matter. Officials in Washington tell CNN that President Trump is increasingly
frustrated with Israel's continuing strikes and handling of a conflict. That frustration is apparently shared by the UK, which, on Tuesday, paused
trade negotiations with Israel and sanctioned West Bank settlers as well.
GOLODRYGA: Meanwhile, on the ground, around 100 trucks entered Gaza Tuesday, but Israeli security forces have yet to release the supplies they
are carrying. This is according to the UN which says about 500 truckloads are needed every day to address the humanitarian crisis.
ASHER: UNICEF tells CNN we are seeing children dying from malnutrition being live streamed to the world. According to the UN, Gaza entire
population, more than 2 million people, face risk of famine.
GOLODRYGA: For the most vulnerable, food scarcity is not only a daily reality, but a battle to survive. CNN's Abeer Salman has the story of one
12-year-old girl and her struggle to keep her family alive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
[11:20:00]
ABEER SALMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the story of one 12- yesr-old girl Jana Askefi (ph) and her family. But it's also the story of so many others in Gaza today, where days are punctuated by the never-ending
search for water and food, and where the death of one pushes a family to endure unimaginable hardships.
(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
SALMAN (voice-over): After her brother was killed, it was Jena who stepped up becoming her family's guardian and caretaker.
(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
SALMAN (voice-over): It's a burden made worse by Israel's punishing 11-week blockade of food and aid on the Gaza Strip. Israel says the blockade was
designed to bring about the release of all of the hostages and pressure Hamas. So far, neither has happened. Instead, despite aid now trickling in,
the UN says 20 percent of the population faces starvation, calling it, quote, atrocious and beyond humane.
(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
SALMAN (voice-over): A baby, born and perished, surrounded by starvation. Her three brief months of life sustained by a child before the war; Gaza
survived on food deliveries from hundreds of trucks a day. Now, with the Israeli military pledging to take over the entire Gaza Strip, whatever
makes it through will almost certainly not be enough. Abeer Salman, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: The UN's Children's Fund, UNICEF is on the ground in Gaza, and we're joined by the group's Spokesman, James Elder, who says family's
capacity to cope has been smashed. And James, we should note, you're in Switzerland now, but I hear that you are back on your way to Gaza very
soon.
Just talk to us about the dynamics on the ground there. Now we reported that more trucks have finally started to go in, but there's a real question
about how that distribution is happening, if at all? Just walk us through what you and your colleagues have seen firsthand?
JAMES ELDER, SPOKESMAN, UNICEF: Yeah, I think partly you're right. You showed so well there just before. I keep in touch with colleagues and with
mums and with volunteers every day in Gaza, and increasingly that just that desperation mothers now, who go days without eating so they can feed their
children.
A mother yesterday or the day before, spoke to me about buying a portion of a vegetable. I'd not heard that before and but this is what happens when
you 2.5 months block aid, everything, every single thing, food, water, medicine, obviously not bombs. We've almost now seen 1000 children killed
since the ceasefire ended.
But this is what happens a level of desperation, despondency, unlike anything in Gaza. And those people, of course, have been to held back. And
look Bianna now, though any aid is good, obviously, but this cannot be optics. This cannot be a smoke. And getting in 50 or 100 trucks is exactly
that.
During the ceasefires, 100 a day and 500 a day changed the game. We started to see malnutrition go down. We started to fix water points. We got
medicines in the hospitals, but it was 500 trucks a day, and we're not seeing anything like that right now, a tiny, tiny fraction.
So, if we're serious, if the government is serious about that, then the United Nations' very brave partners are ready to go, but early stages so
far are not looking good.
[11:25:00]
ASHER: I'm still thinking about what you said about a mother having to feed her children a portion of a vegetable. I mean, like you, I've never heard
anything like that before. I mean, talk to us about what an 11-week blockade does to a population, not just in terms of the obvious food
insecurity and not literally, literally not having enough to eat, but just in terms of the hopelessness and the morale James?
ELDER: It gives me -- your question gives me a chill down my spine, because there was something every time I would go back to Gaza, still somehow
people just rallied, the volunteers, the groups, getting children together, everything now people have just moved too many times. There was a
ceasefire, which created hope.
But I spoke to a child psychologist who said that was her real fear, that moment, that if the war came back, although I shouldn't necessarily call it
a war, wars have rules. This is just the destruction of a society, brick by brick, child by child, but her real fear this child psychologist, was that
as people would go home, they'd see their homes.
They'd see the rubble. They'd realize their neighbor wasn't missing, but their neighbor was dead. And if the war started again, and that's what's
happened, people being displaced again. So, it's not in any way exaggerating to say that Gaza is the first place we've ever known where
every single girl and boy needs mental health support, but they're not getting it.
They're getting the exact opposite of that. And yes, on the nutritional side, I've seen starvation. I've seen that you first you hear it, because a
child screams, screams, but then as their body starts to eat itself, it's fat, then it's muscle, then that child grows grow quiet, and that's -- this
reality across Gaza, where we have enough food to feed a million people for four months, just at the border, and we've had it there for weeks.
GOLODRYGA: James, when you are there, can you just talk to us about who you encounter on a daily basis. What if any aid you are personally able to
provide people. Just we've long talked about the fact that journalists haven't been able to get inside Gaza. But just give us, if you can, a sort
of perspective from someone who is there about how you go about talking to people there and trying to help any way you can.
ELDER: Yes, so thank you. Very, very brave partners. Very, very brave colleagues, that more United Nations colleagues have been killed in Gaza
than any war since the advent of the United Nations. So, you move in flak jackets, you move in armored vehicles, but you do move because this is what
frontline support does.
And UNICEF is about water. It's about getting water to people. It's about repairing them. It's about hospitals. Certainly, it's about nutrition,
getting those magical nutritional supplies to children. It's about primary health care. It's another big thing that is very, very frustrating.
We're seeing so many mums give baby, give birth prematurely, and we've got dozens of incubators on the other side of the border that aren't being
allowed in. So that's colleagues, day to day, and that's what we do. UNICEF does last mile delivery, which is why it's so frustrating. Again, being
told about aid being diverted to Hamas.
You know, our food goes through to a child, to a child's mouth. Our vaccines go in their arms. We don't give to contractors. So, I see this
work, and my own is with communities in hospitals, that's a very tough place to be. It's an -- it's a place full of -- you know, I'm awestruck in
hospitals because of what doctors go through 36-hour shifts. They're living in tents themselves.
But you do walk around hallways full of children, many of whom need life- saving operations, many of whom have had amputations, and simply -- you know are forced, are not able to leave, not given permission to leave the
Gaza Strip. So, they're tough, tough days, but of course, none tougher than for mums who every night cannot promise their daughter or their son that
they'll wait the next day because of the relentless bombardments.
ASHER: James as you're speaking, I want our control to pull up that video of people holding pots and pans waiting for food, because I just find this
video so abhorrently painful to watch, and that is because it shows me that there is nobody in Gaza that isn't without need at this point.
And when you look at the children and the adults and the mothers who are waiting for food, nobody in this crowd knows whether the next meal is going
to be their last or not? And how long after eating this meal they're going to have to have to wait before they get the next meal. That is what I find
really disturbing.
And so, my question to you is, when you have a situation whereby 100 aid trucks are entering the Enclave, when really the need is for 500 a day, the
difficult decision is the decision of who gets, what, when? How is that a. Going to be distributed when you know that the majority of people who are
waiting for food are going to have to go hungry for God knows how long?
[11:30:00]
ELDER: Yeah, it's a great question. Look, ours is based in the first -- in the first moment. It's about getting to the supply, the closest supply
points, basically. So, for us, the only entry point is in the south. So, you're reaching the South, and also because quite frequently, we're denied
access to the north.
So, a lot of is about where Israel allows us to deliver supplies, and then you go and you can't, as you say, normally, humanitarian supply is based on
need, and it's based on us going to the population. Right now, the need is overwhelming. It's 2 million people.
So we go to partners, we go to primary health centers and so on, and you feed every single person you can, or you get medicines to everyone you can,
or anaesthetics, but then you start again. And that's why you hear that frustration in my voice, and so many United Nations colleagues at 100
trucks a day.
You know, all the blockade for so long, it's just not nearly enough. It was only a few days ago, one very impressive young person who I've become
friends with, a fourth-year medical student, was saying exactly what you were talking of, then how she'd been volunteering for 12 hours at a
hospital, working on surgeries.
This young person, all she's asked is, please, can the world see us as humans? In her perfect, crisp English. Then she went to a food distribution
point all day, and she said, James, I thought I had this most amazing day. I did my first ever surgery, but I go back to my family and I failed
because I've got no food.
I mean, of course, she hasn't failed, but that's her feeling, and that's a feeling of Gazans. Anyone who's responsible for a child, a niece, a
grandparent, that's how they're feeling every day.
ASHER: And when are you going back to Gaza?
ELDER: I'll be back there before two weeks, in about 10 days.
GOLODRYGA: OK. Well, please do keep us posted. We obviously will stay in touch with you. And it's important to note that among the countless
innocent civilians there that are suffering are also 58 Israeli hostages, and it is the majority of their family members also that have been
concerned about what this blockade means in rescuing them and getting food for them as well. So, James Elder, we are keeping track, and thank you for
the work that you're doing and for joining us.
ASHER: Thank you, James.
GOLODRYGA: Well, Israel's military is acknowledging that its troops fired warning shots at a multi nation diplomatic delegation in the occupied West
Bank.
ASHER: The incident happened earlier on Wednesday as diplomats visited the Jenin Refugee Camp. The IDF says the group deviated from agreed route that
was approved by the army. It maintains the shots were fired in the air and that no one was hurt. Jeremy Diamond joins us live now from Jerusalem.
Jeremy, what more do we know about what happened here?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed, Israeli troops opening fire towards a delegation of diplomats from more than 20 countries,
including the United Kingdom, France, Canada and others, that is already provoking diplomatic uproar. What we know about the incident? We can see in
the videos.
You can hear the gunshots in one video that I just watched, you can hear seven different gunshots going off as these diplomats then begin to move
away from the source of that gunfire, which is a couple of Israeli troops just beyond an iron barrier that you can see in that video.
The Israeli military is indeed acknowledging that its troops fired what it describes as warning shots that were used to quote distance the diplomats
in this incident, they say that the delegation had indeed coordinated its trip but then veered into an unauthorized area.
What the Israeli military didn't explain is why it felt that live gunfire was necessary in order to tell these diplomats that they were not
authorized to be where they were and that they had to leave when perhaps a bullhorn could have done just as well.
The European Union Foreign Affairs Chief says that any threats to foreign diplomats' lives are, quote, unacceptable, calling for Israel to carry out
an investigation here. Both France and Italy have summoned Israel's Ambassadors to their countries for an official explanation about this
incident.
The Israeli military said it conducted a preliminary inquiry into this but did not indicate that it was going to carry out any kind of broader
investigation into this matter, but that it would be briefing foreign diplomats about this incident and what took place here? Again, some serious
diplomatic blowback now, already more coming in as we speak.
ASHER: All right. Jeremy Diamond live for us there. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Up next on "One World", the crucial White House meeting between the leaders of the U.S. and South Africa. We'll talk about
what it will take to bring harmony to a fractured nation.
[11:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: Welcome back to "One World". I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Here are some headlines who are watching today.
ASHER: Earlier today, in St. Peter's Square, Pope Leo held his first general audience like his predecessor Pope Francis, the new Pope, called
for peace between Israel and the Palestinians. He appealed to Israel to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza, saying the situation there was
increasingly worrying and painful.
GOLODRYGA: Proceedings have resumed in the Sean "Diddy" Combs' sex trafficking trial. Musician Kid Cody is expected to testify this week. He
was briefly romantically involved with Combs' Ex Cassie Ventura she testified that Combs assaulted her when he learned about her relationship
with the rapper.
ASHER: Republican Leaders say they plan to hold a vote later today on President Trump's controversial budget bill, even the Republicans are still
divided over specific provisions, and the House Committee hashing out the tax and spending package has not yet come to agreement on several key
aspects of the plan.
GOLODRYGA: We're just moments away from a major summit at the White House. President Trump is due to meet with Cyril Ramaphosa, the President of South
Africa. They are hoping to rebuild what has become a very troubled relationship. Trump has accused the South African government of persecuting
White South Africans, something the government vehemently denies.
ASHER: Joining us live now to talk about the current situation is Mmusi Maimane, the Leader of the Build One South Africa Party. Mmusi, good to see
you. It's been a couple of years since we've had you on the show. So, thank you so much for joining us again.
I think my first question to you is, there's obviously a lot of pressure on President Ramaphosa to get this right. I mean, this is a very difficult
sort of balancing act for him. You've got a situation whereby the President of the United States and Elon Musk are accusing South Africa of a genocide
against white South Africans when there is absolutely no evidence that that is taking place.
[11:40:00]
And yet President Ramaphosa has to sort of be able to push back on those claims in a way that doesn't anger the American President. How does he do
that Mmusi?
MMUSI MAIMANE, LEADER, BUILD ONE SOUTH AFRICA: Good day, and thank you so much for having me Zain. This is a moment in our nation, and it's a moment
in the bilateral between the two countries. I think we should all come to a point where we look at facts rather than any speculation.
South African government can argue its case all it likes. What I would encourage President Trump to be able to do is that if there is a case of
genocide, an international court is established for that, and if he triggers a charge on that score, a thorough investigation can happen, so
that we avoid speculation on either part.
We know, as South Africans that there's no genocide taking place. There's no evidence to that effect. And more than anything, the trade balance
between South Africa and the U.S. is of vital importance, not only for the country of South Africa, but for the Continent of Africa, as South Africa
acts as a gateway towards that.
So, I would urge that the important thing that must take place this afternoon is to distil the facts and ultimately get down to the really
fundamentally and most important thing, which is, how do we talk about trade between the two countries and the continued relations.
GOLODRYGA: Mmusi, so I'll ask you the more difficult question now to follow up to what you just said needs to be done. How does the President Ramaphosa
go about doing that successfully?
MAIMANE: Well, I think what needs to happen is that, again, in a world where there's a lot of misinformation, sometimes it's important to get back
to facts. South Africa's trade between the U.S. and that has grown significantly over the last number of years. We're now sitting at over just
over $15 billion of trade that South Africa's export goods come into.
The United States economy needs some of the minerals that come from South Africa and agricultural products. So ultimately, putting those facts into
the White House becomes important. And secondly, the U.S. economy is heavily invested in South Africa, and that partnership cannot be
downplayed, regardless of what the perception must be.
And then furthermore, as I have said earlier on, all the set of allegations, the team that is there is not only there to dispel them with
the facts that South African people have seen them, but I want to go back to my earlier point, if the United States feels that there is a case of
genocide. I think a triggered case in the -- in the International Criminal Justice Court must be open and an independent body investigates between the
two.
So, I -- that is what President Ramaphosa needs to be able to do, and ultimately be able to in that -- as we've seen, in some ways the treatment
of various leaders who have come in there. I think President Ramaphosa needs to remain calm, needs to communicate the facts and ultimately invite
President Trump to be able to see what in fact, the South African economy is about.
Because I think that the facts certainly overwhelm the misinformation that might be given to the United States administration at this point.
ASHER: Yeah, I mean, as you point out, though there is absolutely no evidence at all of any genocide against white South Africans. But when you
look at the context here, when you look at the fact that obviously apartheid ended in 1994 when you think about just how sensitive of an issue
race is in South Africa.
Especially because during apartheid, you had minorities, including black people, who were stripped of land, political power, economic opportunities,
the fact that you have a situation whereby states now is granting asylum refugee status to 59 White South Africans. I just want to get a sense from
you, since you were there. What the reaction has been to that in South Africa?
MAIMANE: I think for many, South Africans found the actions of those who have wanted to accept or even apply for refugee status in the United States
as misinformation. Secondly, I think there's been a genuine condemnation of such actions, because South Africa, without doubt, we need to reform some
of our policies.
South Africa needs to build on its more safety, and that's been a project that we're working on to make sure all citizens are safe. But any economy,
any economy all over the world, is conscious of this one basic fact, it cannot create an enclave of wealth and a sea of poverty.
And in South Africa, given the racial disparities, often it is seen that there's a profound inequality amongst races. And I think the South African
government, or any government that is self-respecting, is desperately trying to address that, and it has to introduce legislation that deals with
redress, but it equally so needs to focus on its investment thesis.
[11:45:00]
And that's why, what is this meeting is important for those reasons. But ultimately that the U.S. is granting refugee status, it would be clear
that, upon investigation, the citizens of South Africa who have gone there do not qualify for refugee status. They have not been chased away from
their country.
They're not facing conditions of war. And worse than that, that the disinformation campaign needs to be stopped. And that's, I think, the broad
feeling of all South Africans, that whilst we're conscious of our need for reform, but we are also clear that we cannot be -- we cannot succumb to
misinformation that ends up at the White House.
And I really do believe that an appeal to conscience from people like Mr. Musk and from other South Africans who have come through there to
ultimately, let's stick to the facts and avoid living in a global society where misinformation seems to be the order of the day.
GOLODRYGA: I think what surprised a lot of people is that this sort of granting of refugee status to White South Africans came at a time when the
United States was actually suspending its refugee program to other minorities around the world.
ASHER: Around the world, yeah.
GOLODRYGA: -- which I think a lot of people found a bit strange, shall we say? Mmusi Maimane, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Appreciate you
being on the program. And we'll bring you that meeting between Trump and President Ramaphosa at the White House, as and when it happens.
ASHER: All right, still ahead, Donald Trump says that he wants a protective dome shielding the U.S. for missile strikes. Details on the so-called
Golden Dome when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: All right, the U.S. President is outlining his vision for state-of the-art missile defense system to protect the nation from foreign attacks.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, President Trump unveiled a plan at the Oval Office Tuesday. He calls it the Golden Dome, much like Israel's Iron Dome,
although it would be different in scale and scope. The president says it will cost about $175 billion and will be built by the end of his term,
although experts question both the timeline and the price tag.
CNN's Kirsten Holmes joins us from the White House with more. When we talk about difference in size and scope, that's an understatement, comparing it
to the Iron Dome, given just the enormous size of the United States, and protecting and shielding a country that large compared to what Israel has
developed in protecting itself? What is the president hoping for? When can we expect to see any sort of results?
[11:50:00]
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, they say they moving forward as early as today. That's what the announcement
yesterday was for. They wanted to lay out the details of what exactly this would look like, and just a little bit of context here.
Obviously, as both of you noted, this is a space-based missile defense system. It's something that Donald Trump has really been pushing for weeks,
if not months, talking about advancements in China and Russia, saying that this needed to get done. And as you say, it actually is modelled after
Israel's Golden Dome.
But of course, would be much larger. There's a lot of skepticism and a lot of questioning as to how something like this could be constructed. So
yesterday, when he laid this out one, he said that this would be done by the end of his term. We are having a hard time finding people who are
familiar with this kind of technology who say that something like this can be done in three years.
But that is what he said yesterday, again, on the cost $175 billion part of what yesterday's announcement was that $25 billion was being written into
that spending cuts bill that's currently on Capitol Hill that Donald Trump is really trying to push Republicans to pass through.
So that's where at least some of the money would come from. But even 175 billion, though it sounds like an enormous amount of money, the experts
that we've talked to say we believe it would cost even more than that. So how exactly this begins and what this process looks like still remains to
be seen?
Is this Donald Trump kind of pushing something exaggerating on a timeline, or are we actually going to see some work being done here? Has he actually
put out contracts, that kind of thing, and that we don't have the details on?
GOLODRYGA: All right, Kristen Holmes at the White House for us. Thank you so much. And we'll be right back with more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: Thousands of pictures of food that stand out or tell a story were vying to win this year's world food photography awards.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, the unique honor celebrates the best in food photography from around the world. CNN's Lynda Kinkade shows us some of the winners.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LYNDA KINKADE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This image of five old ladies sharing Chinese Spring Rolls and perhaps a little bit of
neighborhood gossip, is the winner of the world food photography awards sponsored by Bimi, a broccoli brand. The picture was taken in Sichuan
Province in China and won the photographer almost $7,000.
The contest drew more than 10,000 entries from 70 different countries. The pictures range from great unscripted moments like the wine photograph of
the year showing Pinot Noir grapes being harvested at night, to expertly posed ones like these shots of spaghetti and meatballs that won the food
stylist award.
The judges said these pitches showcased both the messy and meticulous nature of pasta. There were numerous shots of food being prepared, where
the people are as much of a star as the food. The winners even included food before it becomes food, like the Innovation Award Winner that looks
like an octopus crawling out of a laundry machine, all this undeniably cute image of black piglets that took home the food in the field prize.
[11:55:00]
It's titled, Hogging the Limelight. Lynda Kinkade, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Love those photos. So glad one of our writers, Jason...
(CROSSTALK)
ASHER: Jason...
GOLODRGYA: Jason that a...
ASHER: -- five seconds of fame.
GOLODRYGA: All right again, we are just moments away from a major summit at the White House. President Trump is due to meet with Cyril Ramaphosa, the
President of South Africa.
ASHER: They're hoping to rebuild what has become really kind of testy trouble relationship, because Trump has accused the South African
government of persecuting White South African something the government there vehemently denies. We'll bring you that meeting as soon as it
happens.
GOLODRYGA: All right, stay with us. We'll have more "One World" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
