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One World with Zain Asher

Trump: Musk Is Upset Over EV Subsidies; Trump Meets With German Chancellor Merz At The White House; Republicans Scramble To Downplay Effect Of Musk's Criticism. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired June 05, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:25:50]

ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. You're looking at live pictures inside the Oval Office where a meeting between German Chancellor Friedrich Merz

and Donald Trump has just wrapped up. It actually went a lot smoother than I think a lot of people were anticipating Trump touched on a wide range of

issues, including Elon Musk, criticizing his Big, Beautiful Bill, Ukraine, Biden, his call with Xi Jinping, his call with Vladimir Putin, obviously,

immigration in the United States, a key issue as well. And on the issue of Ukraine, because that is a key topic for both men to discuss today.

Friedrich Merz essentially said that we need America's help, that the Europe needs America's help to stop the war. Trump said that peace was

likely a long way off, and that sometimes it might be better. Sometimes it is better. Sometimes it might be better to let both sides in this conflict

fight it out, fight it out a little bit longer, because after his phone call with Vladimir Putin yesterday, it was clear to him that peace likely

isn't happening any time soon.

We have a whole team of reporters standing by for us to discuss all of this. We've got Kevin Liptak at the White House, Frederik Pleitgen in

Berlin, Anna Stewart for us in London.

Kevin, let me begin with you. You know, I think a lot of people were watching this meeting very closely, given what we've seen with Cyril

Ramaphosa and also Zelenskyy, we know that both men, while they do overlap on some issues, there's a lot of distance between them, especially when it

comes to the issue of trade.

It went a lot better than I think some people were anticipating. Friedrich Merz sort of broke the ice by giving Donald Trump a really thoughtful gift.

His grandfather's birth certificate. Donald Trump's grandfather was born in Germany. He immigrated to the U.S. in 1885, and that was his gift to the

U.S. president.

But just talk to us about how Chancellor Merz handled this, because he didn't actually speak as much as, you know, I was expecting him to. And

mostly the issue of Ukraine came up, not so much on trade.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. And just a piece of atmospherics there, you didn't see a translator sitting next to Chancellor

Merz, which, you know, I've covered a lot of meetings with Angela Merkel and Olaf Scholz in the Oval Office. They all brought their translators with

them.

[12:30:03]

But clearly, Merz is very comfortable speaking English. He was a lawyer in Chicago for some years. And I think that just tells you the sort of way he

wanted to approach this meeting to try and develop a more intimate relationship with President Trump than perhaps his predecessors in Berlin

had been able to do.

And this is obviously a mercurial president that I think went a long way. And you heard President Trump actually congratulate him and praise him on

his English language. So that I think successful.

Obviously, that birth certificate also sort of a touching moment. Merz has actually invited President Trump to visit the village where his grandfather

was born.

But you're right, we didn't actually hear from the chancellor all that much over the course of this meeting. This was really the Donald Trump show. He

has an answered questions for about a week. And I think it showed. There were a number of topics that I think he wanted to get off his chest.

Namely, this criticism that has been coming from Elon Musk about his signature piece of legislation that is now working its way through the

Senate. President Trump, I think, his sanguine tone towards Musk really sort of belied what he was saying, which was confirming that there is now

this enormous rift between these two men who were once so close.

Musk was essentially the president's shadow in the opening months of this administration. Clearly, now things are very different. And the way Trump

described it was that he and Musk had a great relationship talking in the past tense, saying that he doesn't know that they will anymore and trying

to frame Musk's criticism of his legislation as one of self-interest, saying that Musk is concerned about stripping back some of these tax

credits for electric vehicles, which could impact his Tesla automaker.

The president saying that Musk, now that he's left the Oval Office and left the confines of the White House, saying that the glamour is gone, saying

that he's disappointed in him for this criticism.

So I think really underscoring and confirming, which was something that had been sort of blatant and in public view, but that these two men are -- are

now no longer on good terms at all.

ASHER: Yes. And Trump went as far as to say, you know, that he's anticipating that maybe Elon Musk will -- will criticize him as well, which

is shocking when you consider just how close these two men have been over the past six months, actually even before the inauguration.

Fred, let me bring you in. Because as I was saying, there are some key issues where both of these men overlap in terms of their perspective. I

mean, obviously, Friedrich Merz is a conservative. He also does have somewhat of an anti-immigration stance, which of course Donald Trump can

relate to.

How do you think this Oval Office meeting will be playing out in Germany to a German audience?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, I think for Friedrich Merz has probably went as well as I think he

could have hoped that to it would have gone.

And I think the fact that he spoke not very much at that meeting is probably part of his strategy to speak as little as possible to also try

and make sure that things couldn't descend into the same way that they did with Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the president of Ukraine, and of course also the

leader of South Africa as well.

So I think from a German perspective, from a (INAUDIBLE) mouth's perspective, it probably went as well as it could have.

Now, there's several nuances that I also picked up on as well. Of course, Friedrich Merz, first and foremost, is a business guy. He's someone who

would want to talk about trade. But one of the things that we have to keep in mind for the Germans specifically, and -- and President Trump actually

made note of this as well, is as far as trade issues are concerned, the United States is dealing with the European Union not dealing directly with

Germany.

For -- for him to publicly not speak about it, for Friedrich Merz not to publicly speak about it, is not something that that's -- that -- that's

surprising. Although President Trump did also point out that, of course, Germany is the biggest member of the European Union, the most powerful

economy in the European Union, and therefore it's something that behind closed dose certainly the two leaders are going to be speaking about.

The other thing that I think for Germans is going to be very important to hear is that President Trump was asked whether or not U.S. troops are going

to be staying in Germany, and he said unequivocally that, yes, they would if the Germans will have them.

And I think that is a pretty important statement by the U.S. president because, of course, one of the things that many here in Germany and indeed

in Europe were fearing was, what is the U.S.'s commitment to its European NATO members?

And that seems to me like a pretty straightforward statement by the president of the United States that the U.S. is going to maintain its

military presence here in Germany, which, of course, also gives it a big stake in the security of Europe as well.

And then I think as far as Ukraine is concerned, Zain, the chancellor said what he wanted to say. He blamed Russia for the escalations that were going

on. He blamed Russia for the civilian casualties that -- that were happening on the battlefield or were happening in -- in Ukraine and cities.

That's something that a point that he wanted to bring across even though President Trump, of course, talking more generally about the battlefield

casualties between Russian and Ukrainian soldiers, but then also speaking about the attacks on cities as well.

[12:35:04]

So, I think from that vantage point you could tell that he will be trying to get President Trump moved more towards the position of the European NATO

allies than, of course, the fairly good relations that President Trump has with Vladimir Putin at this point in time. So I think that's going to be a

task for the chancellor.

But from what we could see from the atmospherics, it certainly seemed as though the two men were quite comfortable with one another. It certainly

seemed as though the chancellor was quite careful about the way that he worded things.

But he is also, and I think it's very important, he is also very much a transatlantic guy. He was head of one of the most important transatlantic

organizations here in Germany. So certainly, he knows how things work in the United States, and he certainly knows how Donald Trump operates as

well, Zain.

ASHER: You're right. The -- the smart strategy is just not talk. Just say as little as possible over it to go smoothly.

Anna, let me bring you in because Fred brought up an interesting point and an important point that even though Germany is the largest economy in

Europe, Friedrich Merz obviously doesn't speak for the entire 27-member bloc, right? So there's only so much he can actually do or say here.

But walk us through what is that stake for the German economy. I mean, this is an economy that's expected to contract this year. It's -- it's had

sluggish growth. But it is very export dependent, especially when it comes to steel and autos as well, which are particularly vulnerable given the

environment and the U.S. is its largest trading partner too.

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And there is a lot at stake here for Germany. And Germany will be both speaking for itself, but also on behalf

of the E.U. Chancellor Merz has to get the E.U.'s message across, I think, today.

It was interesting how little he said. I think Fred is absolutely right, it's best to say as little as possible.

But we did have a lot from President Trump actually, because not only do we have the idea that he wants a good relationship with Germany and he said,

ultimately, it'll either be tariffs or a trade deal.

But it actually also said, this is President Trump, we have so much oil and gas, you won't be able to buy at all. We probably have double what anyone

else has. I'm sure that's something we will talk about today.

So from the U.S. side, they're clearly looking at energy being part of any sort of trade negotiation.

From Germany's perspective, they need to think about some of their exports, especially cars, the number one export product from Germany. And actually

13 percent of their car exports go to the U.S. currently that has a 25 percent tariff.

And steel is another big export. You know, that was, of course, 25 percent. It has doubled to 50 percent. So there is a lot for Germany to discuss here

and they will be discussing, I'm sure the trade deficit and there's a lot to get into there.

Not much, of course, during that discussion, but I'm sure behind closed doors, they'll have to get into some of the nitty-gritty of it.

ASHER: All right. Anna Stewart, Fred Pleitgen, Kevin Liptak, thank you all so much.

Let's bring in CNN global affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier. Kimberly, thank you so much for being with us again.

So that went well, right? You know, I imagine that everyone from the sort of Christian Democratic Union party that Friedrich Merz leave is probably

breathing a sigh of relief.

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes. That was a -- a performance akin to the British prime ministers. The -- Merz brought in the

framed birth certificate of Trump's grandfather, reminding of him of his provenance and their shared history and it went on from there.

Merz did not correct Donald Trump when he talked about World War I ending in the Oval Office. It did not. It was ended in Europe. Several times we

saw him bite his tongue.

For instance, when Trump compared the war of Russia on Ukraine as two kids fighting in a park. And he has a deadline in his head as he described it as

to when he's going to get him to stop fighting. I am on several telegram channels where Ukrainians share news and their opinion of it. There are a

lot of flame emojis and people's heads exploding. They just can't believe that Trump would compare Russia's invasion to kids sprawling.

ASHER: And, you know, to that point, I mean, this idea that, you know, peace is obviously clearly a long way off and --

DOZIER: Yes.

ASHER: -- Donald Trump is happy just to sort of let them fight, you know.

DOZIER: Yes.

ASHER: Donald Trump campaigned on this idea that, you know, I'm going to end that war right away. As soon as I get into the Oval Office, as soon as

I'm inaugurated, I'm going to end that war straight away. I mean, obviously here we are six months later that clearly hasn't happened.

And so based on what he said in the Oval Office there, based on what happened out -- out of what came out of Donald Trump's phone call with

Vladimir Putin, what is Donald Trump's role going to be? What is the U.S.'s role going to be going forward as mediators?

DOZIER: It seems like he's this observer who will step in like a referee when he thinks it's gone too far. This is how he sees himself.

[12:40:00]

But this is also messaging to his base, slowly changing the understanding of the situation to, hey, I tried to end it overnight, but these guys are

unreasonable and they hate each other. What do you expect me to do?

The big fear of NATO members, of Ukrainian officials is that Trump will simply wash his hands a bit and walk away and possibly take U.S. aid and

U.S. intelligence with him.

They are not prepared in Europe to replace U.S. intelligence or U.S. weaponry, so they actually need this to stretch out as long as possible

where the U.S. is still giving some aid, even though Trump doesn't seem to be willing to do anything diplomatically to stop Putin's onslaught.

ASHER: And speaking of aid and -- and essentially, the U.S., or rather the E.U., stepping up its game, rather NATO, excuse me, stepping up its game,

you and I talked about just this idea in the last hour of NATO having to increase its military spending, five percent of GDP. That's what the U.S.

is calling for.

We're saying that, you know, the two percent target that exists right now, a lot of NATO members aren't even meeting that. I mean, Germany itself is

struggling and it's the largest economy in Europe, but the German economy is -- is having sluggish growth right now. They're dealing with a lot of

issues.

And we just saw also just across the board the ECB having to cut rates, cut interest rates by 25 basis points for the eighth time in a row, just

because there's so much fear across Europe about the impact of Donald Trump's tariffs on -- on the entire continent.

But just walk us through, you know, what the impact is going to be in the negotiations as Merz meets with Donald Trump. Obviously, the NATO spending

issue is going to come up. And the fact that Germany isn't even meeting its target, how does Merz handle that?

DOZIER: Well, from Trump's comments, Merz has obviously done some groundwork on this ahead of time talking to Trump, getting to know him.

Trump was very complimentary about him and even said that he'd been tough in the previous conversations and he was -- he was -- he -- he seems to

like see him as a fellow deal -- wheeler dealer, negotiator and that's OK.

Merz held his fire for the behind closed doors suggestions discussions. Merz did come into this suggesting backing the E.U. plan of zero on zero

that each side will drop their tariffs to zero.

So surely, he will keep working on that behind closed doors and the conversations they're now going to have.

But it was interesting that Trump didn't call him on the carpet for not measuring up to the two percent investment and being nowhere near reaching

the five percent investment that Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth has called for today.

ASHER: All right. Kimberly Dozier live for us there. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

You can get Chancellor Merck's take on his meeting with President Trump later on Thursday. CNN's Jake Tapper is going to be interviewing the

chancellor on "THE LEAD." It airs at five o'clock in the evening if you're watching from New York and ten o'clock at night if you are watching from

London.

We'll be right back after this short break with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:45:50]

ASHER: All right. In his remarks of the German Chancellor, President Trump, was asked several questions about Elon Musk and his recent criticism of

Trump's Big, Beautiful Bill. The president says he's disappointed in the world's richest man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Elon and I had a great relationship. I don't know if we'll well anymore. I was surprised because

you were here. Everybody in this room practically was here as we had a wonderful send-off. He said wonderful things about me. You couldn't have

nicer said the best thing.

He's worn the hat. Trump was right about everything. And I am right about the great, Big, Beautiful Bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: On Wednesday, Musk called for the House version of the bill, aimed at funding the president's domestic agenda. He called for it to be killed

and says, he wants new legislation drafted.

U.S. Senate Republican leaders are trying to downplay Musk's criticism, saying his remarks have impact but won't change the trajectory of the bill.

Here's more from House Speaker Mike Johnson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Elon's a good friend. We texted late last night. We're going to talk this morning.

He seems pretty dug in right now. And I -- I can't quite understand the motivation behind it. But I would tell you that what we're delivering in

this bill is not only historic tax cuts, but historic savings as well. He seems to miss that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: CNN's chief data analyst Harry Enten joins us live now. I mean, it's interesting because we just saw, just based on that Oval Office meeting, we

just saw the gap between Elon Musk.

Yes. Thank you. It's been a long day, Harry. Couldn't -- couldn't quite get the words out. Yes, the gap widening. Donald Trump essentially intimated

that Elon Musk was a hypocrite because he had no problem with the bill, no problem at all. He knew what was in it until there became an issue with

E.V. credits.

Just -- just walk us through how all of that is going to impact Elon Musk's reputation with Donald Trump voters.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes, you know, my uncle Neil once wrote a song and sung a call, breaking up is hard to do. And I have to say,

I am very much reminded of that song as I see Donald Trump and Elon Musk apparently breaking up a little bit.

And let me tell you, Zain, it will not end well for Elon Musk. What are we talking about here?

Well, let's take a look at net favorability ratings among Republicans. You can see Elon Musk is a pretty popular guy at plus 63 points. That's better

than Speaker Johnson and plus 46, John Thune, of course, the Senate Republican leader at plus 30.

But look who beats Elon Musk and beats him rather easily, Donald Trump does at, plus 79 points. That's 16 points higher than Elon Musk's net rating.

We've seen Republicans who are once-like, like former Vice President Mike Pence go up against Donald Trump. And you know what happens? Their

favorability ratings fall through the floor. That's what happens.

But more than that, let's go to the heart of the concern, right? That Elon Musk has said that he has with this bill. And that is that it raises the

deficit, right?

Well, take a look here. Republicans, the belief that you can cut taxes, you should cut taxes, even if the deficit increases. You know, you go back 33

years ago, just 22 percent of Republicans believed that.

But look at where we are today. Seventy-four percent of Republicans give thumbs up. Even the deficit can go up. But as long as you cut taxes, that's

what they want. This is just such a dramatic change.

So there's no doubt in my mind on this particular issue that Republicans are going to be on the side of Donald Trump. Not Elon Musk on the core

argument.

Now, OK, we're talking about Elon Musk. We're talking about his reputation. I think it could take a hit from Republicans. You may say, OK, he's now

criticizing Donald Trump. Maybe he can do better with Democrats. I got to tell you, I think his reputation is completely ruined with Democrats.

Why is that? Take a look. Democrats: Musk's net favorability rating. You go back to 2017, it was plus 35 points, Zain. Look at where it is today, minus

91 points. That's like a drop of what, 126 points or something like that over just the last eight years?

The bottom line is Elon Musk, if he's going to be a popular dude in this country, he's going to be a businessman, he's going to try and sell cars.

He needs to say popular with someone. He is right now popular Republicans, but I can feel it almost falling down at this point. And he's already very

unpopular with Democrats.

I have to say for Elon Musk, where do you go at this point, Zain? Where do you go?

ASHER: Yes. Listen, you are not going to curry favor with Republicans by going --

ENTEN: No.

ASHER: -- toe-to-toe publicly, like on social media with either Donald Trump or his legislation or his Big, Beautiful Bill. It is not happening,

so.

[12:50:08]

ENTEN: It -- it -- it won't. Let me just say one last thing. They may be --

ASHER: Go ahead.

ENTEN: -- breaking up is hard to do, but my uncle wrote another song and that is called, Love Will Keep Us Together. And love will keep us together,

Zain.

ASHER: Love will keep us together, Harry. Love will keep us together. And I want to meet this uncle. Such a great songwriter.

ENTEN: He's a fantastic songwriter. Maybe one day. Maybe one day.

ASHER: Bring him by the office. Bring him by the office. Harry Enten.

ENTEN: I'll see what I can do.

ASHER: OK. Live for us there.

ENTEN: See you.

ASHER: Fine. All right. We'll be right back after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHER: An evacuation order has been lifted in the German city of Cologne after three unexploded bombs from World War II were diffused. More than

20,000 people were told to leave their homes and businesses on Wednesday which turned part of the city into a ghost town. It was the largest

evacuation since the war itself.

The bombs which weighed up to 20 tons each were discovered in a shipyard on Monday. Cologne was decimated during the war and the discovery of

unexploded ordnance is not uncommon.

Bumps and roads have been swamped by flood waters in northeast India. Local villagers are now living in makeshift tents in some areas. And officials

say, it's a challenge getting food and water to them.

This is just the start of the monsoon season in India and officials expect more waves of flooding in the coming months.

And finally this hour, the original Hermes Birkin bag is going up for auction next month. The original handbag served as a blueprint for the now

iconic celebrity status symbol. The bags -- the black leather bag was inspired by the late actress and singer, Jane Birkin, who met the CEO of

Hermes on a plane back in 1984.

She told the story of how the bag came to be during an interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour in 2020.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANE BIRKIN, BRITISH ACTRESS AND SINGER: I said, why did you make a bag that's sort of four times the Kelly that you could leave open sort of and

sort of half the size of my suitcase because girls like to have things on the end of their arms to put all their stuff in? And he's -- he said, well,

draw it for me. And so I drew it on one of those sick bags, a vomit bag in the -- in the -- in the airplane.

And he was true to his word. And when it came to coming over and -- and paying for the bag, he said, no, it's a gift. And so I was knocked out. And

-- and he said, but we think it's so great that we'd like to give it your name and to -- and to put it out, you know, as a -- as a handbag.

[12:55:14]

And he said, we've only had my grandfather's traveling bag and the Kelly after Grace Kelly. So I'm grateful. But it was funny to come to New York

and they said, oh, Birkin, like the bag? I said, here's now the bag is going to sing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: What a great story. The bag goes on sale at Sotheby's in Paris on July 10th.

All right. That does it for this edition of one -- edition of "One World." I'm Zain Asher. For Appreciate you watching. "Amanpour" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:00]

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