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One World with Zain Asher
Israel: Iranian Missile Caused "Extensive" Damage to Hospital; Israeli Defense Minister: Iran's Supreme Leader Khamenei "Can no Longer Continue to Exist"; Republicans Divide Over a U.S. Role in Israel-Iran Conflict; Israel & Iran Intensify Attacks as Trump Weighs Options; Trump on Gabbard's Iran Testimony: "I Don't Care What She Said"; Erick Brings Heavy Rain, Strong Winds, Fierce Storm Surge. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired June 19, 2025 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST, ONE WORLD: All right, Israel and Iran launching new attacks as the conflict continues into seventh straight day.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST, ONE WORLD: "One World" starts right now. This hour will get you live outside of a major hospital in Israel that suffered
extensive damage when it was struck by an Iranian missile.
ASHER: Plus, CNN has the first Western journalist inside Iran at the site of an Israeli attack on a TV station.
GOLODRYGA: All of this as President Trump is said to have reviewed attack plans on Iran, but is holding off for now. We'll take you live to the White
House with the latest. All right, hello, everyone live from New York. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: And Zain Asher. You are watching "One World". Nearly a week after Israel launched a series of strikes targeting Tehran's nuclear program. CNN
team on the ground there says the Iranian capital is nearly empty, but the missile barrages continue from both sides, and the rhetoric is certainly
escalating as well.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, speaking to reporters earlier, the Israeli Defense Minister described Ayatollah Khomeini as quote the modern Hitler, and said
Khamenei cannot continue to exist. Defense Minister Israel Katz also ordered the Israeli military to intensify strikes on Iran's strategic
targets after an Iranian ballistic missile hit a hospital in Southern Israel, injuring dozens and causing what's being described as extensive
damage.
ASHER: The IDF, meantime, says it hit dozens of military targets in Iran, including the inactive Arak Nuclear Facility, and in what may be a direct
appeal to the U.S. President to join the fight, here's what Benjamin Netanyahu said earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We are committed to destroying the nuclear threat, the threat of a nuclear annihilation against Israel. He
gave them the chance to do it through negotiations. They strung him along. You don't string along Donald Trump, he knows -- he knows the game, and I
think that we're both committed to making sure that Iran will not have a nuclear weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now live in Beer Sheva, outside of the hospital that was hit in Southern Israel. I know this hospital Nic
because it was one of the many hospitals that was prepared to take in hostages as they were returned from Gaza just a few months ago.
Obviously, a complete turn of events now, as you see extensive damage at that hospital, and thankfully, there aren't as many civilian casualties as
there could have been.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, this hospital, like so many across the country, has been moving patients from wards that
are exposed to potential impacts of missiles, to basements to car parks, and that's what happened here.
Look, this is the damage on the building that took the brunt of the blast the roof that you can just get a side of there as Sanjeev pans a camera up
the top set of rooms there that's gone, that's blown away, that was hit by the missile, and that had 25 patients in that ward up there yesterday.
They were cancer patients, urology patients. The director of the hospital told me Zain, he said it could if they'd still been there, it could have
been much, much worse. 40 people, he said, had light injuries. This the fact that his own hospital, even though it was prepared for this possible
eventuality, was hit he said he found it very shocking. These are some of the things he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SHLOMI KODESH, DIRECTOR GENERAL, SOROKA MEDICAL CENTER: We evacuated this floor yesterday, not because of any specific warning, just because
we're in an ongoing process of trying to move as many patients as possible into more protected areas. The damage across the medical center is
extensive. All hospital buildings are affected with windows and ceilings being damaged. Patients hit by flying glass, stuff like that across the
medical center.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: So, the tidy up, the cleanup has already begun here. The building, clearly, parts of it not structurally safe. I think one of the
other big features of today the number of politicians that have come to visit this site here. The strength of their language, blaming Iran for
targeting civilians, talking about, again, strengthening the fight back against Iran. This is emotive. It's emotional. This pushes up the political
rhetoric, pushes away the diplomacy.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, everyone from the foreign minister, the prime minister, the president of the country, all visiting that site. Nic Robertson, thank
you so much.
ASHER: All right, first on CNN, a closer look at some of the damage from Israeli airstrikes in Tehran.
[11:05:00]
Earlier this week, a strike hit the studios on the state-run television network while it was actually on the air. Obviously, there you see an
anchor running for cover as the strikes hit her. Buildings hit the station there, CNN has a team on the ground, the first Western journalist inside
Iran since the conflict began. Our Fred Pleitgen takes us inside that very destroyed building.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We're inside the Iranian state broadcasting company IRIB, which was hit by
an Israeli air strike a couple of days ago, and you can see the damage is absolutely massive. I'm standing in the atrium right now, but if you look
around, this whole area has been completely destroyed, all of the offices, all of the technology that they have inside here, the broadcast technology,
everything has been rendered pretty much useless.
PLEITGEN: All right, so we're going to go inside the building now. They have told us that we need to be very need to be very careful, because
obviously there might still be unexploded parts of bombs in here, or something like that. What we see here is the actual studio where an Iranian
State TV Anchor was sitting and reading the news when the strike hit.
You can see here that is an anchor desk right there. And of course, when it happened, the anchor was reading the news, and then all of a sudden there
was a thud. The studio went black. At the beginning, she got up and left, but then later, apparently came back and finished the news cast and is now
being hailed as a champion of Iranian media.
Some of the main bulk of the explosion must have been here, because this place is absolutely charred. And if we look back over there, that's
actually seems to be the main part of what was the newsroom, with a lot of the desks, computers, printers, phones, you can see how much heat must have
been admitted by the impact and by the explosion.
The phones that they had here are molten here also the keys molten this screen, and there's actually someone's lunch still at their desk standing
here, which probably they would have been wanting to eat until they had to evacuate the building. You can see there's a spoon here that's also been
melted away by this explosion.
All of this is playing very big here in Iran, there's a lot of public anger that the Israelis attacked this site, and certainly the Iranians are saying
that they condemn this and that there is going to be revenge for this. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Tehran.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: All right, source tells CNN that Donald Trump has reviewed attack plans for Iran, but he's holding off for now to see if Tehran steps back
its nuclear program. Let's go to CNN's Alayna Treene at the White House. So, I mean, what are the plans if that doesn't happen?
I mean, if Iran does not sort of change its mind and do a sort of about face on its nuclear program, you know that Donald Trump has reviewed these
attacks, what's next in the process?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, look, and we know that any moment now, actually, the president is going to be meeting again with his
national security team in the Situation Room. They're going to be having those exact conversation Zain and Bianna.
But look, I mean, what I've been told repeatedly now is that one the president, is closer to wanting to have the U.S. get involved in aiding
Israel in some of these strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities. He's closer than he has been, however, and he said this himself yesterday, that he has
not made up his mind, yet.
He has not made a final decision on whether he actually wants to move forward with that, and part of that, I'm told, is because he is still
waiting to see if the Iranians will be far more forthcoming and proactive and coming to the Trump Administration to try and make significant
concessions for a potential nuclear deal.
And that's why we keep hearing in our conversations that despite the president reviewing those attack plans, he is still buying time to see how
the Iranians respond to what is happening, of course, in the Middle East. But I want to take a listen to what exactly he told reporters in the Oval
Office about how he's weighing this decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I have ideas as to what to do, but I haven't made a final. I like to make the final decision
one second before it's due, because things change. I mean, especially with war, things change with war, it can go from one extreme to the other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TREENE: So, I think that's really key. There you hear the president saying he doesn't want to make a final decision until seconds before he actually
goes ahead with it. And that's what we're continuing to hear today in our conversations with people here at the White House.
Another thing I want to share with you, though, is what I've been hearing about some of these discussions behind the scenes, is that -- you know, if
the president does move forward and green lighting the United States helping strike these Iranian nuclear facilities, I'm told that the
president believes that doing so does not necessarily mean that the U.S. is committing to or wants to engage in a prolonged war.
That is specifically actually what the president wants to avoid. And some of these discussions have kind of been centered on, you know, this idea of
decisive strikes, not necessarily meaning that this could lead to a full scare war.
Actually, one of the anecdotes that I have heard now discussed behind closed doors here is, this idea that back during the first Trump
Administration, when the president ordered a strike on Iranian General Qasem Soleimani, they've argued that that was a very sensitive situation, a
very sensitive operation as well.
[11:10:00]
But they were able to do so without it leading to a much broader conflict. And that's kind of some of the anecdotes that we've been hearing shared
behind closed doors as the president weighs this decision. But Zain and Bianna we'll continue to monitor some of these meetings today and bring you
the news as we get it.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Alayna Treene, thank you so much. And for more on the Israel Iran conflict, I want to bring in Robin Wright to join us. She's a
Contributing Writer with "The New Yorker" and a Fellow the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. Her latest piece in "The New Yorker" is
titled, "What is Israel's end game with Iran"? And she writes that there appears to be no off ramps, yet as the destruction and death toll mount in
both countries.
Robin, welcome to the program. So, to that point, in terms of an off ramp, the president, to his credit, has been offering one to Iran for several
months. All reporting suggests that he has been putting off and delaying Israel going in and attacking these sites, until he was able to determine
that Iran was not willing to, in earnest, at least come to the negotiating table and say that they will stop enriching uranium.
So, what do you make of the position the president is in now? He's still saying, listen, I haven't made up my mind yet. Is there an opportunity for
Iran to come back in for talks?
ROBIN WRIGHT, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, THE NEW YORKER: Well, there's no military solution, ultimately that will ensure Israel's safety, unless
there is some kind of brokered end to the conflict, and so the United States will be a major player, whether it is militarily or diplomatically.
And of course, I think the -- when we look at the timeline, just remember that the original nuclear deal took two years of tortuous diplomacy and
involved a final document that was 159 pages with several annexes. The idea that President Trump, who walked away from that original deal, could broker
a new deal with Iran in 60 days.
I think, was always an illusion. I think the Iranians have signalled they're willing to go back to the table, but they're also not willing to
cave on what they see as a sovereignty issue, their right to enrich uranium for a peaceful nuclear energy which they need because of their facilities
for oil and gas are so degraded, and because consumption is so high in Iran, domestically.
It needs its oil for export, and so needs nuclear energy at home. And both President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu have said Iran has no right to
enrichment. So, we're kind of both sides are talking in different directions and defining the issue differently, and that's why I think we've
ended up with a military confrontation of the language which the U.S. has never seen.
GOLODRYGA: Can I just follow up on that? How much currently is Iran providing to its public in terms of nuclear energy alone?
WRIGHT: Well, it has only one nuclear reactor, and that's down at Bush Air, and it has plans to build two more, but it needs nuclear enriched uranium
as fuel now that only requires it at 3.67 percent enrichment, Iran now has 60 percent and could leap, in the not-too-distant future to 90 percent if
it wanted.
I think Iran has always been interested in having a nuclear capability, kind of like the Japan model, but not necessarily leaping to a nuclear
weapon. You know, weaponizing more than just having enriched uranium.
ASHER: And just in terms of the Ayatollah in Iran I mean, obviously, just the messages that are being directed at him, you've got Israeli officials
essentially saying that -- you know he shouldn't be left standing. You've got President Trump intimating that the U.S. could obviously kill the
Ayatollah if it wanted to.
But that they're going to leave him be for now. I mean, how does the regime interpret those kinds of messages? And how does it prepare for that
possibility?
WRIGHT: Well, revolutions are paranoid inherently, and the Iranians will take this as an attempt to change the regime. But I think it's important to
understand that Ayatollah Khamenei is important in the way. He has veto powers over political, military or economic decisions.
But he -- there are -- there are a lot of institutions, the presidency and an executive branch, a feisty parliament, an independent judiciary, and
which is particularly hard line and dual military branches. So, eliminating one man is not going to necessarily produce regime change.
And especially because I think even though the majority of Iranians don't like the regime, the majority also doesn't want to see an outside power
dictate who should rule or how Iran should be ruled?
[11:15:00]
GOLODRYGA: For a regime that for decades, has vowed to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Israel clearly sees Iran as an existential threat in
terms of what President Trump decides to do. Every Israeli official I have spoken with says that at this point, now that Israel has started this war,
they won't end until they do significant damage to their nuclear facilities, including Fordow with or without the help of the United States.
So how is the United States supposed to react and respond at this point, knowing that even if President Trump may opt to not intervene and order his
military to use those bunker busting bombs that Israel will opt for, you know, plan B, C or D.
WRIGHT: Well, it's clear that the Israelis can't eliminate Iran's nuclear program. It really needs the United States and those bunker buster bombs,
which, by the way, have never been used in conflict. So, this will be an experiment for the United States as well.
But Israel is, I think, clearly, trying to kind of goad the United States into finishing off something that Washington has long been worried about as
well. So, Israel doesn't really have a plan B, except to engage in what might look like a war of attrition, and that is keeping go -- to keep going
after Iranian leaders or Iranian military installations. But Fordow is the big question, and that's the one that's under the mountains, very hard to
eliminate.
ASHER: Yeah, it's interesting, what you said about how the Israelis are sort of goading the U.S. to try to intervene. I mean, we saw Netanyahu
earlier essentially saying, listen, you know, the Iranians strong President Trump along. I mean, that kind of language. He knows how that is going to
get under the skin of somebody like President Trump.
And so just in terms of President Trump's options at this point, the fact that it's been telegraphed so publicly, this idea that the U.S. is weighing
its options, that the U.S. might intervene. I mean, he's talked about it publicly just now, the pressure that the U.S. is under to now actually do
something when you've talked about doing something so publicly, I mean, how do you then sort of jump ship and then not do it?
WRIGHT: Well, this is very much like the run up to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003. There was such momentum, the deployment of so many U.S.
troops, aircraft carriers, in the region. And at a certain point, it's almost as if the momentum itself is lights, the fuse gets you know, there's
no turning back.
And I think at this point, it's going to be harder for President Trump not to act than it will be to act, because of the kind of whether it's the
rhetoric, the preparations, the sense the whole region has that if President Trump doesn't act, it's going to make him look weak. And that, of
course, is one thing President Trump would never want to appear to be.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, that is that taco acronym that really bothered him.
WRIGHT: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: Trump always chickens out. But the other acronym, perhaps, is that he may be having some FOMO right now, also seeing the success that
Israel has had thus far, and that may be convincing him more and more so to participate as well. We'll continue to see how this plays out over the next
hours and days. Robin Wright, thank you so much.
WRIGHT: Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: And still to come on "One World" Senate Democrats are speaking out. They want a say in whether the U.S. gets involved in the conflict with
Iran.
ASHER: And we'll tell you why the showdown with Iran has some Donald Trump's strongest supporters divided and sniping at each other?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:20:00]
GOLODRYGA: Well, Congress wants to be consulted about the Israel Iran conflict.
ASHER: Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer says all 100 Senators will get a private briefing next week on Iran. He and other senior Democrats have sent
a private letter, rather a letter, to the White House, reminding Trump that Congress needs to play a role in all of this.
Annie Grayer is tracking this story for us from Washington. And the mechanism through which Congress can actually sort of reign the president
in is the War Powers Resolution Act was enacted in 1973 talk us through that.
ANNIE GRAYER, CNN REPORTER: Right, that is the way that Congress can have a seat at the table here and really have authority over what Trump does. But
this is a politically tricky issue, because, as we've seen, Republicans are divided on what Trump should do here on Iran.
And as the party is broadly split on foreign policy in general, and we've seen this entire Congress that Republicans are unlikely to split with Trump
and on these key issues, so people on the Hill are waiting to see what the president does here. But Democrats are adamant in pushing this war powers
resolution forward, led by Chuck Schumer, who's saying that Congress really does have a -- have to play a role here.
In the letter that you mentioned that Chuck Schumer led with the other key top Senate Democrats the group wrote, quote, by law, the president must
consult Congress and seek authorization if he is considering taking the country to war. He owes Congress and the American people a strategy for
U.S. engagement in the region.
But it really is going to come down to what Trump decides, and as we know, he is continuing to make his big decision here.
GOLODRYGA: He said up to the last second.
ASHER: Who knows what he's going to do? That's what he said yesterday. Annie Grayer live for us there in Washington. Thank you so much. All right,
as Donald Trump tries to decide what to do about Iran, as we were just saying, he's facing conflicting advice from within his own base.
GOLODRYGA: This has been fascinating to watch unfold. On the one side are hawks who want the U.S. to challenge Iran. On the other are pure MAGA
purists who want the U.S. to stay out of what they call forever wars. CNN Senior Correspondent Donnie O'Sullivan breaks it down for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: How many people live in Iran, by the way?
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): I don't know the population at all.
CARLSON: You don't know the population the country you seek to topple.
CRUZ: How many people live in Iran?
CARLSON: 92 million.
CRUZ: OK. Yeah --
CARLSON: How could you not know that?
CRUZ: I don't sit around memorizing population tables.
CARLSON: Well, it's kind of relevant, because you're calling for the overthrow of the government.
DONNIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The world of MAGA is at war over going to war with Iran.
CARLSON: You don't know anything about Iran.
CRUZ: So, I'm not the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran.
CARLSON: You're a Senator --
(CROSSTALK)
CRUZ: -- who's calling
CARLSON: -- the country.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Some of the president's biggest supporters are at odds about whether the U.S. should attack Iran.
STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Let's have the American people weigh in, because you're going to see the American people are 90
percent against forever wars.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): On one side are Steve Bannon and Tucker Carlson, both of whom are frequent supporters of Israel, but are against war with
Iran and say it could divide Trump's base.
BANNON: And I'm telling people, hey, if we get sucked into this war, which inexorably looks like it's going to happen on the combat side. It's going
to not just blow up the coalition. It's also going to thwart what we're doing with the most important thing, which is the deportation of the
illegal alien invaders that are here.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Other loyalists, like Charlie Kirk, are not ready to sound the alarm.
CHARLIE KIRK, HOST, THE CHARLIE KIRK SHOW: It's superficially dividing some people into their corners, but I think if President Trump navigates this
with prudence, I don't think this is a permanent fracture.
[11:25:00]
I think all of this can be remedied and healed, especially if we don't have U.S. troops on the ground, and we don't get into a prolonged conflict.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): The prospect of war has put much of the MAGA podcast world against Carlson's former employer, Fox News.
CARLSON: It does feel like Fox News is playing. And I never criticized Fox because they were so kind to me, but they are playing a like a central role
in the propaganda operation here.
MARK LEVIN, HOST, LIFE, LIBERTY & LEVIN: They go on with their bumper stickers, forever wars. Forever wars. Well, guess what? The Israelis are
going to put an end to this forever war, and so will Donald Trump.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): on Fox News a slew of guests hoping to get the attention of one very important viewer.
CLAY TRAVIS, FOUNDER, OUTKICK: We have to do it, man, I know President Trump probably watching. It takes a lot of bravery.
LEVIN: If this is not a reason to defend ourselves, then give me one an Islamo-Nazi regime with a nuclear warhead, intercontinental missiles that
have threatened to assassinate the President of the United States. Gee, and we have morons, fools running around the country.
This isn't Magna. This isn't Magna. This isn't what I voted for. Donald Trump is a forever war president. How so? He's going to do it every
president before him, since Carter didn't have the guts to do. He's going to put an end to this damn thing.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): And CNN's Kaitlan Collins asked the president on Wednesday about this rift in the world of MAGA. The president said that
Tucker Carlson actually called him to apologize in recent days about some of the comments that he had made in this very heated debate on U.S.
involvement in Iran back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: All right. Thanks to Donnie O'Sullivan for that. Still ahead for us, experts say only the United States has a bomb capable of targeting
nuclear sites buried deep underground. We'll have more on the bunker busting bomb when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:00]
ASHER: Right, welcome back to "One world". I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Here are some headlines we're watching today.
ASHER: Civilians in Israel have been told they can leave shelters following a fresh wave of missiles fired from Iran. An earlier set of strikes cause
major damage in Tel Aviv at the hospital, the hospital rather in the south of the country, Israel's Health Ministry reports hundreds of people were
admitted to hospitals following the earlier strikes.
This as the IDF says it hit dozens of military targets in Iran, including an inactive nuclear facility.
GOLODRYGA: President Zelenskyy is leading Ukraine in mourning more than two dozen people who were killed in Russian strikes on Tuesday. The death toll
from the strikes now stands at 28 making it the deadliest strike on the capital this year. The attacks on more than 400 drones and 32 missiles
launched on Kyiv.
ASHER: Hurricane Erick is bearing down on Mexico's southern coast, making land full a short time ago as a powerful category 3 storm. Erick is packing
winds of more than 200 kilometers per hour, making it the strongest June hurricane ever to hit Mexico.
GOLODRYGA: Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of Congo are expected to sign a peace agreement next week, ending a decades long conflict. The move comes
after a provisional agreement was reached, marking a breakthrough in talks held by the Trump Administration to end the fighting in Eastern Congo.
Well, Russia is warning that a potential Israeli strike on Iran's only operating nuclear power plant in Bushehr could cause a catastrophe on the
scale of Chernobyl.
ASHER: Yeah, this is experts say that a massive bunker buster bomb might be the only weapon in the U.S. arsenal capable of destroying a key Iranian
nuclear facility in Florida. But as CNN's Brian Todd reports, even this bomb may not be actually able to penetrate the fuel enrichment plant carved
into the side of a mountain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a sophisticated, frightening piece of weaponry designed to hit targets like some of Iran's
key nuclear enrichment facilities, deep underground.
JOHN PIKE, GLOBALSECURITY.ORG: They're buried so deep and no other bomb would be able to certainly destroy them.
TODD (voice-over): The GBU-57 Massive Ordnance Penetrator, also known as the bunker buster, the largest non-nuclear bomb in the U.S. military's
arsenal, designed the Air Force says to reach and destroy weapons of mass destruction in well protected facilities. The bunker buster is roughly 20
feet long, weighs 30,000 pounds with 6000 pounds of high explosives.
The Israelis don't have them, nor the means to deliver them. Only the U.S. does, and there is no public record that they've ever been used in combat.
JOSEPH CIRINCIONE, BOARD VICE CHAIR OF THE CENTER FOR INTERNATIONAL POLICY: The United States has never encountered a target that required a bomb of
this size. We have other very, very large bombs, such as the MOAB, which is the mother of all bombs as they say.
TODD (voice-over): That mother of all bombs weighing more than 21,000 pounds, was dropped by U.S. forces on ISIS targets in Afghanistan in 2017,
but the bunker buster even heavier. Experts say the bunker buster has a thick, hard shell designed to withstand the impacts of the ground and
plunge to the depths it needs to reach with explosives in a fuse that also needs to be robust enough to penetrate the ground.
The bunker buster doesn't have the biggest blast area, experts say, because it's designed to burrow into the ground before exploding. The only plane
that can carry the bunker buster, the B2 spirit stealth bomber, flown by a two-pilot crew, capable of flying about 6000 nautical miles without
refueling, and eluding an enemy's most sophisticated defenses.
The likely target of the bunker buster, if the U.S. were to get involved in this conflict. Fordow an Iranian nuclear enrichment site buried deep under
a mountain, beneath possibly 300 feet of rock. A key question, could the bunker buster really damage Fordow significantly?
Experts say the bunker buster can penetrate about 200 feet into the ground, maybe more. But if the key targets at Fordow are about 300 feet under.
CIRINCIONE: One bomb isn't going to penetrate that. You're going to have to have multiple hits at the same spot. Drop a bomb another B2 comes in, drops
another bomb in the crater of the first.
TODD: Another key question is, would a strike on the Fordow nuclear facility cause a large radiation leak? Three experts who spoke to CNN say a
radiation leak would probably be limited to the immediate area, and a strike would probably not pose the same kind of catastrophic consequences
that bombing a nuclear reactor would. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHER: Let's bring in CNN Military Analyst Cedric Leighton, the retired U.S. Air Force Colonel, joins us now from Washington, D.C. Thank you so
much for being with us. I just want to sort of dig deeper into what Brian Todd just said there in his piece. Obviously, the Americans, for them to
get involved in this, they would have to be able to guarantee that it would be a success.
[11:35:00]
And we are dealing with bunker buster bombs that have never been used in combat before you know, this is effectively an experiment, right? So how do
they guarantee? I mean, maybe that's an impossible question, but how do they guarantee as much as possible that this is going to bear fruit in the
way that they want it to?
COLONEL CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, so Zain, this is going to be a key component here, because one of the key things that we're
dealing with is the fact that this bomb has never been used in combat. And it is a clear element of war planning where you try to use the kinds of
things that are necessary from the standpoint of certainty and making sure that you can actually hit the target and eliminate the target in this
particular case.
So, with the GBU-57 the Massive Ordnance Penetrator, you have a system that is designed to go after very hardened and deeply buried targets, as they're
called. But it is something that is, you know, kind of iffy as to whether or not it can achieve its goal, and as Mr. Cirincione, who was in Brian
Todd's piece, mentioned, it may require multiple hits basically over the same area before it can actually achieve the goal of eliminating that
target, or at least rendering it inoperable.
GOLODRYGA: It sounds like your dog also wants to weigh in here too.
LEIGHTON: Yeah --
GOLODRYGA: So just if you need to --
ASHER: What --
GOLODRYGA: -- this is the reality of doing --
LEIGHTON: -- its --
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, virtual interviews put us in these positions. We're all too familiar with them, Cedric. So, thank you for multitasking here. When
we're talking about what the United States plans could be in terms of facilitating these bombs and dropping them over Fordow, the president has
been very hesitant, as he's campaigned on and, as he said publicly, to involve any U.S. troops.
So, would there be a scenario, a likely scenario, in your view, that it could be an in and out type of operation, or would the U.S. likely have to
maintain a greater foot presence there in the region following such an attack?
LEIGHTON: I think, Bianna, that it would require a greater foot presence, and you know, these types of events. They're not one and done events. And
you know, even though you have the technology to go after a target like Fordow, once it's destroyed, let's say the mission is successful, if it
happens.
Let's say that's successful. And this, you know, plan to this installation is rendered inoperable. It becomes, you know, really necessary for other
things to happen, because the Iranians are just going to sit there and take this kind of an action. They're going to come in and they're going to say,
you know, that, first of all, our sovereignty has been violated.
You have destroyed one of our major national efforts. And let's face it, the nuclear program in Iran has been a major national effort for many
years, for several decades. And it is, you know, in part, a clandestine program that has caught, obviously caught the attention of the
international community, and because of that the Iranians want to make sure that they can use it to maintain, help maintain their sovereignty.
Once that sovereignty is breached, they are going to react to it, and it will require, basically, us to figure out what the corollaries of the law
of unintended consequences will be in a case like this. And I think we will see that kind of a situation here, if this kind of, you know, this kind of
an attack is actually carried out.
ASHER: And just in terms of the Israelis targeting the inactive nuclear site in Arak. Just give us a sense of how much of a priority this ought to
have been. I mean, was it likely that this is a site that was going to be restored anytime soon?
LEIGHTON: Well, that's always a possibility. And I think that was part of the Israeli calculation, Zain, when it comes to this particular site, the
Arak site had been used before for their purposes, and you know, it was something that I think the Israelis may have had intelligence indicating
that Arak would be used again for some type of either weapons production facility or perhaps a storage facility.
And that made it, I think, a viable target. And anytime there's a target like that where it could be reused or reinvigorated or, you know, made
useful again, then it is something that they would, inevitably, want to strike and take out as quickly as they possibly could.
[11:40:00]
GOLODRYGA: I spoke with one of our other Military Analyst and Contributor Spider Marks just a few days ago, and asked if this was an operation that
Israel, if need be, could continue to conduct on its own, specifically going after Fordow while it may be preferable for them, for the United
States to intervene and use these bunker busting bombs that if President Trump opts not to.
That the Israelis could then go for a Plan B or such of sending either continuing to strike it with the ammunition that they do have, and even
send in special ground forces. And he said that was a scenario that Israel had at its disposal. I would imagine they had game planned, many options
here, not knowing exactly how the United States would respond.
Can you walk us through that? Do you agree with him that there are other options available for Israel?
LEIGHTON: Yeah, Bianna, there are other options, but they're probably not very good options. Yes, it would be possible to send in ground forces,
special operations forces, either directly with the IDF or under the control of the Mossad the Israeli intelligence service.
Those particular operations are very, very, very risky, and normally what would happen is you would soften up the target with bombs first. And this
is where the GBU-57 is probably the most preferable munition. Now, what the Israelis could do is they could use some of the weapons that they have at
their disposal.
For example, they have used in the past, the blue 109 which is another type of bunker buster, but it is a much smaller bomb that is not of the same
capacity. It's about 2000 pounds worth, and that is something that Israel is reported to have used against Hassan Nasrallah, the Hezbollah leaders.
So, they have capabilities of that -- of that type, but they are not the same as going after a deeply buried target like this. And one of the key
elements there is the fact that what they could do instead of striking directly at the -- basically the core of the installation at Fordow, which
is deeply buried underground, as Brian mentioned in his report.
You have the situation where they could go after things like the ventilation shafts, the power supply, the storage facilities, you know, the
support buildings and the tunnel entrances. So those are the kinds of things that they could potentially hit and could potentially help to
disable that, but it would be a much more intensive operation, a much greater risk to both ground forces and air crews in a situation like that.
But it is not an impossible operation for the Israelis to conduct, given the fact that they have done very well at penetrating the Iranian security
forces on multiple levels.
ASHER: Right, CNN Military Analyst Cedric Leighton live for us. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: Go back to your dogs, now. So -- and people can multitask like that.
ASHER: -- He remained very focused. You were very focused. I would have been so distracted by that. You were very focused I'm very impressed.
LEIGHTON: It --
GOLODRYGA: That's true --
ASHER: If the military training in you, that's what it is.
LEIGHTON: She is --
GOLODRYGA: She likes -- on television.
LEIGHTON: That's right.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Thank you.
ASHER: All right. Still to come for us, the Trump cabinet member who Trump isn't listening to anymore, why Tulsi Gabbard is on the outs. We'll tell
you when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:45:00]
ASHER: Right, President Trump's National Security team has arrived at the White House for meeting in a situation room, but his Intel Chief is on the
outs of the president.
GOLODRYGA: White House Sources tell CNN that Tulsi Gabbard has fallen out of favor with Trump and that she has gone off message when it comes to
Iran. Trump is said to be frustrated that his director of national intelligence has been playing down playing Iran's nuclear program. Have a
listen to what she told Congress and Trump's reaction to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TULSI GABBARD, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: The IC continues to assess that Iran is not building a nuclear weapon, and Supreme Leader
Khamenei has not authorized the nuclear weapons program that he suspended in 2003.
TRUMP: I don't care what she said. I think they were very close to having one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: All right, let's bring in CNN's Senior White House Reporter Kristen Holmes, with more. And Kristen, it's one thing, typically with
stories like this, where we know from multiple sources that there is friction, the White House typically comes out and says, no, that that's all
false.
Our sources are telling us it's not as bad as it seems. I mean that in a nutshell, tells you that there is a lot of truth here. Just walk us through
what you're hearing.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and just to give you a little bit of background here, we actually started working on a
story about Tulsi Gabbard weeks ago, before any of this unfolded, and I had spoken to a number of White House officials who said that they did believe
there was some belief was in the White House that she was a little out of her depths with the job.
It's a huge job, and she wasn't quite aware of what she was going to be taking on. But that Donald Trump loved her. He loved having her in the
cabinet, loved having her as part of the administration. Now all of that turn particularly after we heard him say that specific line, I don't care
what she said.
So, we reached back out to these various White House officials who painted a very different picture. And all of it really revolving around what is
happening in Iran and Israel. And they pointed to a moment earlier this month in which Tulsi Gabbard posted a video to her Twitter. And I want to
read you what she said.
She said this is a narrative within the video. It said that the world is closer to the brink of nuclear annihilation than ever before. And also said
that the political elite and warmongers were stoking fear. Now, Donald Trump, the president, thought that this was a veiled criticism at his
consideration of allowing or giving the green light to Israel to strike Iran, and that really wrinkled him and wrinkled many around him.
This is what one administration official told me, when the president thinks you are off message, he doesn't want you in the room. That is a Senior
White House Adviser telling me that the reason why that is obviously so important is because the place you want to be right now, particularly when
it comes to a crisis like this, is in the room with the president.
Now we also were told this about Gabbard. It says, if he's we were asking if he was interested in firing her, and this person said he's not
interested in firing her at the moment because she's not doing any harm. I think he's questioning her viewpoint as a value, especially after that
video.
So, you're seeing there. Now the ODNI did push back, and this is what they said. They said, essentially that, the director remains focused on her
mission, providing accurate and actionable intelligence to the president, cleaning up the deep state and keeping the American people safe, secure and
free.
All of this, obviously, they are not happy with anyone in the White House saying this about Gabbard, but we spoke to a number of people who say this
is clearly where the president stands right now. We'll see what happens in the next several days.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, it was notable that she was not included in that camp. David briefing a weekend or two ago. That's "The New York Times" reported
she was on national guard duty. I would imagine that she could have gotten out of that if the president was adamant that she joins. It's saying that
she didn't. Kristen Holmes, thank you.
ASHER: Right. Still to come, Hurricane Erick hits Mexico's pacific coast, described before it made landfall as extremely dangerous. We'll have the
latest, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:50:00]
GOLODRYGA: Well, hurricane has made landfall in Western Mexico, downgraded to a category 3 hurricane just before it struck it still hit with top wind
speeds of up to 200 kilometers an hour. It's the most powerful hurricane to have struck Mexico this early in the season.
ASHER: Yeah, residents there, are bracing for devastating wind damage, dangerous storm surge all along with coasting flooding as well. Joining us
CNN Meteorologist Allison Chinchar. So, Allison, just walk us through what people are expecting on the ground.
ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yeah. So again, the good news is we're really starting to see this storm not only shrink in size, but the impacts
are also weakening too. That's what you'd like to see, especially when the storms make landfall like this.
So, here's a look at the current statistics of Erick sustained winds of 138 kilometers per hour, but they're still gusting to at least 160 kilometers
per hour, even though it is making its way ever so slowly across land. That you can see, this is the history of the track and all those different
colors that you see there the rainbow.
It's essentially formed over the water, showing that rapid intensification that this storm has undergone. And it really you can see why the darker red
colors over the ocean indicate the warm water. So, it was entering basically fuel for this storm to intensify. Now when we talk about rapid
intensification, this essentially means at least go increasing in wind speed of at least 55 kilometers per hour in 24 hours or less.
And you can see the timeline of this storm that it definitely made a significant increase in the last 24 hours on Wednesday and then came down
just ever so slightly right before landfall. So, here's a look at the storm right now still a category 1, but it is expected to dissipate.
And rather quickly, in fact, by the time we get to this evening, local time, like Thursday night, perhaps even during the overnight hours. We
really expect most of this storm to really fall apart. That's the good news. Now, the downfall when the storms fall apart is you still end up
keeping a lot of the moisture there.
So even though the storm itself will dissipate, it still has the ability to produce a tremendous amount of rainfall, and that's going to be one of the
biggest concerns, especially now, storm surge, not really so much of an issue once it makes landfall, and even several hours after it makes
landfall, but the rainfall is really going to be the biggest concern.
You can see widespread red and orange color there on the map that's indicating at least 100 if not even as much as 200 millimeters of rain
that's going forward in time.
[11:55:00]
So still likely to see a lot of that very heavy rain that not only causes flooding, that can also lead to mud slides, things like that, especially
because the terrain in a lot of these areas here is extremely mountainous, so you get not only the rain coming down, but then all of the rain that's
falling in the mountains then flows down into the a lot of those low lying communities, which can just exacerbate a lot of the flooding in some of
these areas. Girls back to you.
ASHER: Allison Chinchar live for us there. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: And do stay with us. We'll have more "One World" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
