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One World with Zain Asher
U.S. Justice Department Releases New Batch Of Epstein Files; Trump: It Would Be Smart For Maduro To Step Down; U.S. Strikes Alleged Drug Boat In Eastern Pacific, Killing One; Border Patrol Training Record Number Of Recruits; Nearly Three Years Of Fighting With No End Sight; Sudan's Prime Minister Asks U.N. Security Council To Help Enact Ceasefire; Aired 12-1p ET
Aired December 23, 2025 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:00:08]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. You are watching the second hour of "One World."
The DOJ has released more files related to its investigation into convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, just four days after it was legally required
to make all of them public. Some of the material released is quite disturbing. New documents contain emails from Epstein co-conspirator and
convicted sex trafficker, Ghislaine Maxwell.
Some of them reveal Maxwell acting as a go-between for a Peru trip for a person identified as Andrew. Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, formerly Prince
Andrew, visited Peru in March of 2002.
Also a jailhouse note from Epstein in 2019 addressed to Larry Nassar, another infamous sex offender, saying quote, our president also shares our
love of young, nubile girls. However, no specific name was referenced.
Separately in a 2020 email, an assistant U.S. attorney writes that the President Trump traveled on Epstein's private jet many more times than
previously reported.
Last year, Trump posted that he had never been on Epstein's plane. Now, we should note authorities have not accused President Trump of any criminal
wrongdoing in connection with Epstein. And the DOJ says that some claims about the president are quote, unfounded and false.
So let's bring in senior reporter Marshall Cohen. Just talk about the fallout from what we've been able to go through you and your colleagues
specifically here at CNN and what we've already reported in the last couple of hours, Marshall.
MARSHALL COHEN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Bianna, this was quite a drop and it came for us here on the East Coast in the middle of the night. And maybe
for a good reason why, because there's a lot of stuff in here that implicates Donald Trump.
You mentioned those flights and it is so interesting. It really jumped off the page. I want to show the viewers that email that you mentioned. You're
looking at it right now. A lot of it's redacted, but I can tell you that from what we have examined, what is clear is that it was sent from one
prosecutor at the Justice Department to another in 2020 as they were investigating Ghislaine Maxwell, the -- the accomplice of Jeffrey Epstein.
The prosecutor says, I'm going to quote for you, quote, the flight records we received yesterday reflected Donald Trump traveled on Epstein's private
jet many more times than previously has been reported or that we were aware.
The details there, according to that email was that Trump was a passenger on at least eight flights in the 1990s. Ghislaine Maxwell was on some of
those flights. There was one flight that was only listed the only passengers were Donald Trump, Jeffrey Epstein and a 20-year-old.
And on two of the flights, some of the people on the flight were women who might be witnesses at Maxwell's sex trafficking trial.
So some very alarming stuff. And you pointed out the president's previous denials where he said he was never on the jet.
We got also from the Justice Department early this morning some pushback before anyone had ran a single document. They wanted to make clear that
they were defending Donald Trump and that some of the stuff about him was not credible.
Among other things, they said, quote, some of these documents contain untrue and sensational claims made against President Trump that were
submitted to the FBI right before the 2020 election.
And that's true. You know, you can send a tip to the FBI, Bianna. That doesn't mean it's going to be verified or corroborated. So they're trying
to focus the attention on the uncorroborated, un-vetted materials, but there's plenty of other stuff in here, Bianna, like that email we just
looked at that's from a prosecutor at the DOJ. That's a very credible source talking about Epstein's connections to Donald Trump.
[12:05:59]
GOLODRYGA: All right. Marshall Cohen, you'll continue to be digging through all of it for us. Thank you so much.
Let's bring in former state and federal prosecutor David Weinstein. He's also a former assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Florida
and a partner with Jones Walker LLP. He joins us from Miami.
And, David, as our colleagues are combing through this trove of documents that have just been released, he said, as we heard from Marshall in the
early morning hours on the East Coast here, I'm wondering what stands out to you and how you advise us in the public to read this comment from the
Justice Department saying some of these released documents contain, quote, untrue and sensationalist claims.
DAVID WEINSTEIN, FORMER STATE AND FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, Bianna, I think we have to focus on what Marshall just talked about, corroboration and
whether or not the trust can be made in the person who's making the statement. Is this a source who is a source who has some confidence in the
statements they're making?
Now, he just talked about an email from an assistant U.S. attorney. And so that person certainly has trust in the statements they're making. And what
they're saying is they've got now records of the plane and who was on the plane and when they were on the plane.
What do you read into that? Well, that the person was on the plane. You don't know who else was there, why they were going there, what they were
doing, what their involvement was with regard to that. But it's important to look for corroboration.
As to the statement made by the Department of Justice, we've all seen instances. And I've seen them on both sides of the coin, both in my role as
a federal prosecutor and currently in my role as a defense attorney where allegations are made.
And unless they're substantiated, they're sometimes just not credible. And as astonishing as a statement might sound, you have to have corroboration,
whatever side of the V, you're on.
So there may be claims that are being made by people who make them without knowing whether they're true or false. So we all have to look for
corroborations. There's thousands of pages of documents and photos and everything else.
So if you can corroborate what's been said, if the source is credible, then those are the statements that you should really put some faith in.
Otherwise, they may simply just be allegations.
GOLODRYGA: Even if they come from Jeffrey Epstein himself, obviously, deceased and discredited criminal, nonetheless, that the letter, that
really disturbing letter that we spoke about in the last hour.
And for those who are just joining us now, it's a 2019 handwritten letter that he wrote shortly before he took his own life to sex offender, Larry
Nassar, where he makes a crude reference to, quote, our president. Again, this is in 2019. So this was during President Trump's first term.
And he said, our president shared a, quote, love of young, nubile girls. And again, how do you corroborate that? But how should the court of public
opinion and perhaps, I don't know, this has already been litigated, but how is this viewed from a legal lens?
WEINSTEIN: Well, again, we have to look at corroboration. You have someone who's deceased who can't be questioned. Why did you make that statement?
What do you mean about it? It's a disturbing statement in and of itself.
But without being able to corroborate and cross-examine the person who made the statement, he may have been looking for a benefit. We've heard
information released in the past that he liked to name drop, that he liked to use his contacts to convince and he being Epstein to convince people
that he was a credible source of information for investment, et cetera.
But without him being here, there's no way to tell whether or not that's a truthful nugget, that he's writing to -- to Nassar, or whether or not
that's something he's planting as a seed in the hopes that he can use that as leverage down the road.
And so again, it's a disturbing statement, but it has to be corroborated. I'm sure that people on both sides of the aisle are going to view this
statement differently. And until this corroboration for it, I think you're going to have to sit back and think to yourself, well, where's the
statement coming from? Is that person credible? Do they have a strong propensity to tell the truth or not? Same thing we tell jurors when they're
considering testimony of someone who's on the stand.
GOLODRYGA: Right. Authority stressed that President Trump and many of the high-profile names that have been named -- that have been named in the
documents that have been released, thus far, have not been accused of any wrongdoing. The president really lashed out at this yesterday and talked
about the impact that it has on people's reputations, even President Clinton himself.
And then you counter that with what the victims here and the survivors, those who really have suffered the most, the majority have been arguing for
and that is the public release of these documents.
So now that they are out, I'm just wondering how you're weighing both arguments.
[12:10:01]
WEINSTEIN: Well, it's unfortunate, but we're all going to have to look to some of the victims, the former victims in these cases to corroborate
what's been said. And that's why you can compare those to the civil lawsuits that were filed to the information that was released.
And that's also the reason why unless these victims want to come forward, unless they want to relive this and talk about it, that's why there's all
this redaction that's taking place to protect them.
But they're the corroboration for this. They're the people who were there when things happened. They were the people who were called to testify in
the criminal case, in the civil actions that were filed. They have the real answers.
And so it's going to be a combination of documents, credible witnesses, corroboration. You have to sit back. There's a lot to go through. I don't
think anyone can rush to judgment about what anyone's done.
It's unfortunate you could be in a picture with somebody and have no involvement, and then they use that picture to your disadvantage. So you
have to put everything in context. I don't think any of us should be rushing to a quick judgment.
It'll take some time to get through all of this, but you need to spend some time before you can reach an accurate conclusion.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Though we should know that at least for -- for some of these people, if you look back at the -- the timestamp, Jeffrey Epstein had
already been known, accused, at least fell in at that point, and pedophile, and yet they still, you know, chose to spend time with him.
So maybe it's just an error of judgment on their part, but it's clear that this case -- this story is far from over.
David Weinstein, thank you so much.
WEINSTEIN: You're welcome.
GOLODRYGA: Well, tensions between the U.S. and Venezuela are growing even more heated. The U.S. military says that it struck another alleged drug
boat in the Eastern Pacific Ocean killing one person. That makes 105 deaths since September.
This as the U.S. is still actively pursuing an oil tanker, more than 48 hours after the chase began off the coast of Venezuela. When asked what the
administration's ultimate goal is, U.S. President Trump says that he would think it would be smart for Venezuela's leader, Nicolas Maduro, to step
down.
Our Kevin Liptak joins us from West Palm Beach, Florida, with more on this. So, Kevin, the president continues to publicly pressure Nicolas Maduro to
step down. Nicolas Maduro has lasted in office for quite some time now a number of years having previously been pressured to do just that maybe mot
as explicitly from a U.S. president. So, what are the administration's next strategies to get him to step down?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, according to President Trump, his -- his next step is going to be to order up land strikes in
Venezuela. He's been saying that for the last several weeks or so, he says that they're coming soon, but so far, he stopped short of giving the final
order there, which I do think speaks to some of the reservations that the president has about potentially becoming mired in a prolonged conflict,
getting engaged in a foreign war, which I think is something that he very much wants to avoid, which has left the endgame in all of this somewhat
unclear.
You know, I think when the president sort of summoned reporters to Mar-a- Lago yesterday to make an announcement with his defense secretary, with the secretary of navy, the expectation, initially, had been that he would have
something more to say about Venezuela.
You know, this announcement ended up being about something completely different, which was about shipbuilding and this new class of -- Trump-
class battleships that he will be making for the navy.
And so I think, you know, there was some disappointment, I guess, that the president was kind of equivocal about what his actual objective was when it
came to Maduro.
Listen to what he said when he was asked whether his goal was ultimately to oust Maduro from power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He can do whatever he wants. We have a massive (INAUDIBLE) the biggest we've ever had.
Whatever he wants to do, if he wants to do something, if he plays tough, it'll be the last time he's ever able to play tough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIPTAK: So not really shedding a whole lot of light about what his ultimate objective is in all of this, because remember, he has laid out a number of
different goals here.
Initially, it was about curbing the flow of illicit drugs that were coming from Venezuela. And we have just seen, as you mentioned, the latest strike
on an alleged drug boat, this one in the Eastern Pacific.
You've also heard him talk about migrants. You've heard him talk about the oil. And so I think all of this, I think, remains somewhat unclear even as
the tensions really escalate.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Kevin Liptak reporting live from West Palm Beach, Florida. Thanks so much.
President Volodymyr Zelensky says Russia launched a massive overnight attack on Ukraine, killing at least three people, including a four-year-old
child.
[12:15:00]
According to Ukraine's wartime president, Russia struck at least 13 regions across the nation, leaving parts of the country without power and more than
a dozen injured.
Polish and allied aircraft were also deployed overnight, a move that NATO member Poland is describing as a preventative measure. The attack comes
just as President Zelenskyy said talks with the U.S. over the weekend had been constructive, with a real outcome potentially on the horizon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): And here it is important that this is the work of both us and the United States of
America. This suggests that we are very close to a real result.
And the first draft of the agreement on the recovery of Ukraine has also been worked out. An economic strategy, so to speak, that is, in principle,
the basic block of all documents, in my opinion, is ready.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: All right. Still to come for us, CNN goes inside the Trump administration's immigration crackdown.
Next, we'll hear why so many Latinos are joining the border patrol.
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GOLODRYGA: The U.S. Department of Homeland Security is offering $3,000 to undocumented migrants who self-deport before the end of the year. That's
reportedly triple the usual cash payment.
The offer also includes a free flight to their home countries. Now it comes as the Trump administration promises a harsher crackdown on immigration in
the New Year.
A surge of new recruits is attending the U.S. Border Patrol agency training to join that controversial push.
CNN's David Culver takes us there.
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DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So this is the morning inspection, and there's about 1,100 recruits.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You all are a tremendous part of national security, and we sincerely appreciate that you've -- that you've taken the first step and
that you signed up.
CULVER (voice-over): After months of request, we're granted rare access inside the U.S. Border Patrol Academy --
(GUNSHOTS)
-- where under President Donald Trump, the curriculum has changed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the fastest I've ever seen government move.
CULVER (voice-over): One of the biggest changes, a new pursuit policy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Our last pursuit policy, we would let them go. So, they knew that the Border Patrol would not pursue them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Execute.
CULVER (voice-over): That's no longer the case.
Oh, yes.
(GUNSHOTS)
They're also rolling out new firearms technology for better aim.
[12:20:05]
AGENT JEREMY DAVID, FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR, U.S. BORDER PATROL ACADEMY: The new implementation is the MRDS, which is a Miniature Red Dot Sight.
CULVER: Is it a game-changer, though, for you?
DAVID: One hundred percent.
CULVER: Really?
DAVID: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got (INAUDIBLE) one this afternoon.
CULVER (voice-over): Many of the changes paid for, they say, by President Trump's big, beautiful bill, which also allocates funding for 3,000 new
Border Patrol agents on top of the more than 19,000 already on the job.
CHIEF JARED ASHBY, U.S. BORDER PATROL: We'll grow this year to about 17, 1,800 students at any given time now.
CULVER: And that's going to be a record-high?
ASHBY: That would be a record-high.
CULVER (voice-over): Keeping those numbers up requires a major recruiting push.
UNKNOWN: We have an incentive right now that if you graduate the academy, you get $10,000.
CULVER (voice-over): Customs and Border Protection says applications are up nearly 70 percent from a year ago.
CULVER: How old are you now?
JUAN PERALTA, BORDER PATROL RECRUIT: I'm 20.
CULVER: You're 20?
PERALTA: Yes.
CULVER: When you tell your friends back home like I'm joining Border Patrol, are some like surprised?
PERALTA: Yes. They're kind of like, wow, you're starting pretty young. Or how do you feel about arresting your own kind?
CULVER: How do you -- how do you answer that when you hear that?
PERALTA: They didn't come in the right way, so they aren't my kind.
CULVER (voice-over): Juan's story may surprise you. Latino, the son of an immigrant, raised in a border town. But here, we find that's more common
than you might think.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): How many of you are fluent in Spanish right now?
CULVER (voice-over): CBP says more than half of their agents serving along the southern border are Hispanic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who was born and raised along the border? Yes. Good -- good group.
CULVER (voice-over): To better understand what motivates them to join, we go to El Paso, Texas.
ZIPPORAH RIOS, EL PASO RESIDENT: We have friends who like, oh, they're siblings who are in Border Patrol or like they're going into Border Patrol.
ANGIE PRADO, EL PASO RESIDENT: I have a cousin actually that's in Georgia getting -- like doing the training to do Border Patrol and then come back
here.
CULVER (voice-over): Increasingly, Border Patrol agents are being pulled into ICE operations far from the border. Controversial. And at times,
violent.
CULVER: Is that the Border Patrol you know? Is that what you're accustomed to here?
PRADO: From what I have seen on social media, that definitely doesn't look like something our Border Patrol would be doing or how they would be
behaving.
CULVER: And do you think most of them are motivated by it being a good career opportunity?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think so.
PRADO: For sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
PRADO: For sure.
CULVER (voice-over): And just as they can see why some here sign up for Border Patrol, they also sympathize with migrants trying to do it the right
way, legally.
PRADO: And then you see people that are getting arrested at court because they're like going through there --
RIOS: They're trying to go through the process of trying to get their citizenship and doing it the right way, quote-unquote, you know.
PRADO: And they still get detained.
CULVER: Don't -- no.
PRADO: Sorry. You know, I get emotional.
CULVER (voice-over): We see that in the halls just outside of El Paso's immigration courtrooms where volunteers prepare folks for their hearings.
CULVER: So we're going to go see somebody who just stepped out of court here and might be detained by the federal agents, which is an ICE
initiative, but we're told Border Patrol agents are supporting this.
CULVER (voice-over): You can hear one of the volunteers praying aloud.
They took the son into custody, and then step back out, realizing his mother was also on their list.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can see the cruelty. I think this is violent. Them just standing right here is violent.
CULVER: Do you really wonder why are they doing this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I -- I do get upset. And I just tell them, this mom, this family, they're not criminals.
AGENT CLAUDIO HERRERA, U.S. BORDER PATROL: I'm not going after my own kind because my own kind will do it legally.
CULVER (voice-over): Born in Mexico, Agent Claudio Herrera first came to the U.S. as a student. He says it took him 11 years to become a citizen.
And six years ago, he joined the Border Patrol.
HERRERA: I've been asked sometimes before in my -- in my past, aren't you ashamed of being apprehending your own blood?
CULVER: What do you say to that? How do you answer that?
HERRERA: I say, of course not, because I'm protecting my community. My deepest advice to anybody that is coming from Mexico, we know that you want
a better future for you and your family.
But if you decide to do it illegally, you will only find jail or you will only find death.
CULVER: We found that even with all the debate and tension right now around deporting migrants, interest in joining the agency has not necessarily
dropped off.
But most of the potential candidates we spoke with stressed that deportations are not what's attracting them to border patrol. Instead, they
pointed to the new financial incentives, efforts to stop drugs from getting into the U.S., and what one candidate described as a job that means both
enforcing the law and, as he sees it, helping migrants navigate legal pathways into the U.S.
David Culver, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[12:25:59]
GOLODRYGA: All right. And still to come for us, one day after he asked the U.N. to help end his country's brutal civil war, Sudan's prime minister is
talking to CNN. My conversation with him straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: All right. Welcome back to "One World." I'm Bianna Golodryga.
Sudan's Prime Minister is asking the U.N. Security Council to help end his countries nearly three-year civil war.
The brutal conflict has killed more than 150,000 people in displaced millions. Prime Minister Kamil Idris presented a peace plan to the U.N. on
Monday, which calls for a ceasefire that would be monitored by the U.N., as well as African and Arab states.
It also calls for the withdrawal of Rapid Support Forces from territory they control. They have been battling the Sudanese Army since 2023.
With more on the fighting and suffering in Sudan, here's CNN's Larry Madowo. And we warn you, some images are disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Some have called it the world's forgotten conflict. For nearly three years, Sudan's brutal civil war has raged,
leaving at least 150,000 dead, forcing millions more to flee their homes in an attempt to escape the worst of the violence, and sparking one of the
worst humanitarian crises this century.
Now, the United Nations and other groups are calling out an alarming escalation of the conflict, the rebel group Rapid Support Forces.
The U.N. humanitarian aid chief visited the western Sudan area, where civilians have reported widespread abuse occurred.
[12:30:04]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Al Fashir, based on the testimonies I heard from many survivors, is basically a crime scene right now. Horror show, absolute
Horror show.
TOM FLETCHER, U.N. AID CHIEF: There have been mass atrocities, mass executions, mass torture, sexual violence on a horrific scale.
And, of course, the people escaping are then attacked on the roads as well. Rebels from the Rapid Support Forces, or RSF, seized control of Al Fashir
in late October after 18 months of fighting with the Sudanese military.
Witnesses who managed to escape the violence described a bloodbath, and accused RSF fighters of mass killings in the city.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Fifty or 60 people in a single street or 10 or 20 people, they killed them, bang, bang, bang. Then they
would go to the next street, and again, bang, bang, bang. That's the massacre I saw in front of me.
MADOWO: Amnesty International has called for a war crimes investigation into an April attack on the Zamzam refugee camp outside the city, part of
the RSF's push to take Al Fashir.
And the RSF says it acknowledges what it calls violations in Al Fashir.
Tens of thousands of people are unaccounted for, according to the U.N., after nearly 100,000 people fled the city. Many of those who managed to
escape are women and children. And the treacherous journey out often means more violence.
ANNA MUTAVATI, U.N. WOMEN REGIONAL DIRECTOR FOR EAST AND SOUTHERN AFRICA: There is mounting evidence that rape is being deliberately and
systematically used as a weapon of war. Women's bodies, ladies and gentlemen, have just become a crime scene in Sudan. There are no safe
spaces that are left.
MADOWO: Even within the relative safety of a displacement camp, there's often too little to go around.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We are very tired. There's no food or water. We came here, some kind people help us little by little. We
thank them, and may God reward them for this, but we need more. We need more to be able to live.
MADOWO: Last month, at the request of Saudi Arabia, U.S. President Donald Trump said he would work for peace in Sudan.
TRUMP: We're going to start working in Sudan.
MADOWO: But so far, despite some efforts at reaching a ceasefire deal, there is little evidence the war will end soon. With the RSF now pushing
into the buffer zone, between its strongholds in the West and eastern areas held by the Sudanese military.
And without more aid, there's also little sign that life will improve for the millions impacted by the fighting.
Larry Madowo, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Time now for the exchange. As we mentioned moments ago, Sudan's Prime Minister, Kamil Idris, is at the U.N. this week, appealing for
support for an initiative to end the civil war. And Prime Minister Idris joins us now live.
Mr. Prime Minister, thank you so much for taking the time. As we've mentioned, you presented a new peace plan to the U.N. Security Council
calling on the world to, quote, stand on the right side of history.
Now, your proposal requires the RSF to withdraw from territory it currently holds to give up its weapons with fighters placed then in camps and
ultimately disarmed.
Given the RSF's battlefield momentum right now and their refusal to do just that in the past, what makes you confident that they will agree to this
plan now?
KAMIL IDRIS, SUDANESE PRIME MINISTER: Thank you very much indeed. Before answering this important question, let me establish three points of
principle. Sudan is a historic country, is an Asian civilization. And the Sudanese people, this is a peace-loving nation.
Second, this war has been imposed upon the Sudanese people, imposed upon us.
And the third point I would like to establish is that we are here to demystify Sudan through this global peace initiative.
The most important part of this initiative is the humanitarian protection, civilian protection, demystification of corridors, humanitarian corridors,
accountability, reconciliation, national healing, and serious, serious truth, meaningful truth.
Now, the atrocities established by the international community, the war crimes, the crimes against humanity. We have evidence beyond reasonable
doubt.
Now, the militia forces, they have to come to terms and agree to this initiative if they are interested in establishing peace.
But the most important part is -- the most important part of the initiative is disarming the militias. And withdrawing all these militia forces from
all areas or cities they have occupied. These they have committed to the Jeddah declaration in 20 May 2023.
[12:35:23]
GOLODRYGA: So these --
IDRIS: Once this is done, then they move into camps.
GOLODRYGA: These are the same --
IDIRS: This is a global operation.
GOLODRYGA: These are the same forces --
IDRIS: Yes, please.
GOLODRYGA: -- that you -- that these are the same forces that you and other experts have described as committing genocide, crimes against humanity and
war crimes.
So I guess I go back to my first question. Why would the RSF accept these terms now?
IDRIS: They should accept it now because the international community, including the resolutions of the Security Council and the literature
established in connection with this war, they came to a relative consensus that we should now stop this war and establish peace in Sudan.
So if they are serious, they should do that. These are militias. This is not the army of Sudan. These are mercenaries. These are gangs. These --
these are not organized groups.
So they should come through pressure from the international community. Now it is time for the Security Council to take its original role for which the
Council has been established by putting pressure on the militias to withdraw from the cities and the areas they have occupied, being assembled
into camps. And then this question of organized withdraw should be sequential, should be conditional.
We should not just stay ceasefire. Ceasefire without withdrawal and putting these militias into camps is totally ineffective.
GOLODRYGA: Mr. Prime Minister, who is it in your view that comprises the RSF? Because you've called them militias, but you've also said that this
was a war imposed on the Sudanese people.
IDRIS: First of all, let me clarify. I'm not using the term RSF. RSF has been established by law. This is true. It's a fact. RSF has been officially
dissolved. So RSF does not exist in real terms.
RSF has been transformed into illegal militias and mercenaries. Thousands of mercenaries, including Colombian mercenaries, your reports and the
international media have established this beyond reasonable doubt.
So there is no RSF. There is no Rapid Support Services as established by Sudanese law. They have been dissolved and transformed into illegal
militias, illegal forces and mercenaries, drug traffickers, including these -- these -- these groups. So you're not fighting with a regular body.
GOLODRYGA: Supporting -- who is supporting them? So, who is supporting them?
IDRIS: Yes. Supported by illegal organizations, by various countries, of course, there are reports, there are media reports, there are official
channels, television channels. There are universities reports, research centers that have established these reports that there are certain
countries that support these militias --
GOLODRYGA: Does that include the UAE?
IDRIS: -- were called upon this countries now. It is up to the UAE to answer this question. But there are enough reports that culminate the UAE.
And it is up to the UAE to answer this question by giving a clear legal answer.
Still, we have opened all doors through this initiative, peace initiative. So the UAE itself, the country should take advantage of this important
global initiative to come to consensus with the international community. We have call for reconciliation, including international reconciliation.
So if -- if the UAE is implicated, now, there is a room for the UAE to defend itself, to justify and to join international consensus, including
the literature established by the Security Council itself.
GOLODRYGA: Well, as you know, the UAE, as well as Egypt, the United States and Saudi Arabia as part of the Quad are pushing a separate humanitarian
truce. You've emphasized that this plan is, quote, homemade, not imposed, your plan, not the one from the Quad.
[12:40:10]
Why should the international community back your framework instead of their own? And do you risk alienating those countries, including the United
States?
I know you've -- you've expressed your grievances with the UAE. But if you are hoping for serious support here, especially from a humanitarian
standpoint, do you not risk alienating that coming from the United States, from Saudi Arabia, from Egypt, by not at least being open to and accepting
their proposal?
IDRIS: On the contrary -- on the contrary, what I have said clearly, clearly, on behalf of the government of Sudan, that our initiative, this
initiative, homemade initiative, initiative that we have adopted ourselves, this initiative established scenarios and complementarities with the
initiative taken by the United States of America, Egypt, and, of course, by our friends from other peace-loving countries.
So as far as Saudi Arabia and the United States of America, and Egypt, this tri-partite initiative, this is fully supported by the Sudanese government.
What we are doing here is by way of complementarities and initiative to support this tri-partite initiative, and of course, give also new
information and new developments in order to encourage, not only them, but encourage the international community to join this.
At the end of the day, our interest is to establish peace in Sudan. And this is our invitation. Our prime concern is peace for our people. As I
have said at the outset of this interview, we are peace-loving nation. We are not interested in war.
This war has been imposed upon us. And now, we are fighting a war which is beyond the territories of our neighbors or Sudan. It is almost an
international war.
GOLODRYGA: Well, as you know the --
IDRIS: So this is exactly what we are trying to do.
GOLODRYGA: I don't want to parse words --
IDRIS: Yes, please.
GOLODRYGA: -- but the RSF wasn't entirely composed of mercenaries from other countries. You keep saying this is a war imposed on you.
I guess my bigger question, though, is given the massive humanitarian crisis, the genocide, the displacement of millions that the murder of
hundreds of thousands, we saw what happened in Al Fashir. There's now continued fighting in Kordofan and the death toll continues to rise. And,
obviously, the crimes against humanity and the sexual violence against women. This has been going on for months and years now.
Why do you think the international community failed to intervene and stop and address this?
IDRIS: Our main concern is civilian protection. Our main concern is to encourage unimpeded humanitarian corridors. This is what we have said
repeatedly. And they take this -- they take advantage of this occasion to once again appeal to the international community to join.
The question, your question, is very relevant. The international community should take serious measures to classify -- to classify the mercenaries and
the mercenary forces and all these groups as a terrorist organization.
This is the only way to reduce these atrocities and come to a final decision on the parameters of war. Without this, we will continue to be
struggling. So, the international community has an important role to act upon the terms and conditions established by the United Nations charter and
led by the Security Council, as I have said this clearly in very clear terms yesterday.
So, I repeat, we are partners in this peace initiative, and we warmly welcome all -- all partners, including this important initiative
established by his excellency, President Donald Trump. The crown prince of Saudi Arabia, his Royal Highness, Mohammed bin Salman, and Mr. Abdel Fattah
al-Sisi, President of the Republic of Egypt.
[12:45:16]
We commend them. We complement this initiative by what we have said. But this initiative by the Sudanese government is homemade. It is our own
initiative. And I think we have the right to also address the international community with our own language and terms and conditions.
But this, again, I repeat, all these efforts they have the element of synergies and complementarities.
GOLODRYGA: I do want --
IDRIS: They don't contradict to each other.
GOLODRYGA: And my final question to you, and that is a big if, if a ceasefire is agreed upon, if the RSF, you call them militia fighters, if
they put their weapons down, there's the question of accountability, because your plan allows RSF fighters, not implicated in war crimes, to
reintegrate into society.
Can you just talk about how that will actually play out in reality?
IDRIS: Thank you so much. Ceasefire must be conditional and sequential. Ceasefire should not be considered as an isolated island. All these
elements. Ceasefire withdraws and comes. Everything is going into everything else. They go hand in hand. They go concurrently.
So it is very important that we do not isolate ceasefire from withdraws and putting, grouping all these militias or militia forces, inserting camps,
identified and monitored by the international community.
So we are talking about measures, supervision, and enforcement. Enforcement is critical.
GOLODRYGA: OK.
IDRIS: Supervision is critical. And that is why I think it is a holistic approach that should be taken to make sure that we do not repeat
experiences of the past that don't work.
GOLODRYGA: There has --
IDRIS: So if you are talking about a durable piece, then we have to talk with the logic and sense of seriousness. And the international community
has an important role to play in this respect.
GOLODRYGA: Well, we can agree that there has been far too much bloodshed lost over the past few years.
Sudanese Prime Minister Kamil Idris, appreciate your time. Thank you so much for joining us.
IDRIS: Thank you so much. Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:50:26]
GOLODRYGA: All right. Let's go check on how the U.S. markets are doing right now. Green arrows once again. So Dow is up about just under two
tenths of a percent. S&P 500, about three tenths. NASDAQ about four tenths of a percent. A bit quiet and muted day ahead of the Christmas holiday.
This is your "Business Breakout."
Larry Ellison is now saying that he will personally guarantee $40 billion worth of Paramount's offer for Warner Brothers Discovery. The Oracle
founder is the father of Paramount CEO, David Ellison. The board of Warner Brothers has rejected the Paramount bid several times. This guarantee is
intended to counteract objections to the financing of the bid.
Well, the Powerball lottery jackpot is climbing again. No one won the top prize in Monday's drawing. The jackpot now stands at an estimated $1.7
billion. The next drawing is on Christmas Eve. Quite the Christmas gift there for that winner. The jackpot has only been won on Christmas Eve once
in the game's history.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has approved a daily pill version of the weight loss drug Wegovy. The pill uses the same active ingredients as
the sister drug Ozempic. Wegovy is currently given in weekly injections, but the new pill has shown similar weight loss and side effects. The
prescription will be available from January roughly costing $149.
And we'll be right back with more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: We could call it a holiday gift for fans of the artist Banksy. This new mural by the anonymous British street artist appeared on a
building in London's Bay Water District on Monday. It shows two children wearing winter hats lying on the ground with one pointing toward the sky.
An identical mural also appeared on another building in Central London. However, Banksy's representatives have only confirmed this one work is his.
Well, historic milestone in space flight this weekend as a European Space Agency engineer became the first wheelchair user in space. The 33-year-old
Michaela Benthaus traveled about 62 miles above Earth on a Blue Origin capsule.
[12:55:10]
After mountain bike accident resulted in a spinal cord injury in 2018, Michaela had to change a lot of things about her lifestyle, but she never
lost her adventurous spirit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me, after your -- the accident that you thought this dream of going to space was no longer possible. You just showed the
world that it is possible.
MICHAELA BENTHAUS, ENGINEER, EUROPEAN SPACE AGENCY: I know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you say to folks --
BENTHAUS: Let's not stop here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. What would you say to folks that have given up on a dream because they thought it was impossible?
BENTHAUS: I think you should never give up on your dreams, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Wow. Good for you, Michaela. Incredible feat.
And finally this hour, a special holiday message from the astronauts on the International Space Station.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Greetings to planet Earth. All of our friends and family from Expedition 74, aboard the International Space Station, flying high
above thinking of you during this holiday season.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL FINCKE, AMERICAN ASTRONAUT AND RETIRED UNITED STATES AIR FORCE COLONEL: There you see astronauts, Mike Fincke, Zena Cardman, Chris
Williams, and Kimiya Yui, wishing everyone on Earth a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday season.
The quartet found time to record this message amid a busy mission aimed at testing new technologies for future human and robotic exploration in space.
And we're so grateful that they had the time to record this message for us.
All right. That does it for this hour of "One World." I'm Bianna Golodryga. Thanks for watching. "Amanpour" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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