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One World with Zain Asher
Trump Again Threatens to Pull U.S. Out of NATO; Hegseth Fires U.S. Army Chief of Staff, Two More Generals; Bondi Subpoenaed to Discuss Epstein Files Later This Month; Israel Mulls Destroying Lebanese Villages for Buffer Zone; Israel Expands Operations Against Hezbollah in S. Lebanon; UNSC to Vote Bahrain Proposal on Strait of Hormuz. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired April 03, 2026 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST, ONE WORLD: Hello everyone. Live from New York. I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST, ONE WORLD: And I'm Zain Asher. You are watching "One World". Major news this hour, U.S. sources say for the first time in this
conflict, an American fighter jet has been shot down over Iran.
GOLODRYGA: So, here's what you know right now, search and rescue efforts are currently underway. These are images that you're looking from Iranian
media appear to show part of the wreckage. We are still waiting for the U.S. military and the White House to comment on the situation, as it
remains unclear exactly where in Iran the jet went down.
ASHER: And we also have this new video, which appears to show what a U.S. military refueling operation over Central Iran. We've got CNN Jeremy
Diamond standing by for us in Tel Aviv. But first, let's go to CNN National Security Reporter Haley Britzky in Washington.
So, Haley, just in terms of what we know about Iran, apparently shooting down this U.S. fighter jet. We understand that search and rescue operations
are underway, apparently, to locate to crew. What more do we know, Haley?
HALEY BRITZKY, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, so very few details at this point coming out, as you mentioned, the Pentagon and the White House
have not yet put out public statements or anything confirming this news, but we do know that search and rescue operations are underway, as we see in
video, that CNN has geo located here.
And I want to mention that this, you know, it does raise questions about the reality on the ground. We've heard from the president, we've heard from
Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, over the last several days, last couple of weeks, kind of indicating that the war is essentially nearly won, that
the Iranian military is obliterated.
Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, saying that Iran has no air defenses, the president sort of indicating that the U.S. has been able to fly over
Iran with impunity and sort of do whatever it needed to do, take off out targets as it wished. And certainly the U.S. military has delivered a
series of extensive blows to Iran, to Iranian military.
But this raises questions about the risk that U.S. forces are still facing in the region. We don't know the status of these pilots yet. Certainly,
it's a concern for their families. I know families of F-15 pilots back home are certainly going to be worried and watching the news closely here.
But we've seen that Iranian state media photos put out appeared to show an F-15 a fighter jet that had that had been down. The Iranian state media
also saying that a reward is being offered for anyone who may capture a quote enemy pilot or pilots. So, there's a lot happening here that we are
still trying to sorting through to try to find out exactly what happened here, where these pilots are.
Certainly, we'll be following this very closely and then hoping to get more information soon here.
GOLODRYGA: All right, Haley Britzky, thank you. Let's go to Jeremy Diamond, who is in Israel for us in Tel Aviv, covering all of this. Jeremy, two
things can be true at the same time. Iran's air defense system can be significantly degraded, and yet risks still remain for an incident just
like this.
Of course, our thoughts are with those two pilots, and we hope for the best that they are indeed recovered and are alive. We know that the Air Force
trains aggressively for these types of situations. Just walk us through what you're hearing, what the Israeli media and what the Israeli government
has, if anything, said about this.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, there's been no comment from the Israeli government as of yet. I have asked them whether Israel
will be assisting with any search and recovery efforts. That's obviously something that the Israeli military prepares for, as well as it has its own
pilots flying over Iran on a daily basis.
So, the Israeli military certainly also poised, just as much as the U.S. military, to be able to carry out search and rescue operations of this
type. We will see whether or not the Israelis assist in that effort inside of Iran. We're already learning that the Iranian media is also Iranian
state media is also reporting that search efforts for this crew have so far been unsuccessful.
Fars News, one of the state media outlets in Iran reporting that a reward is being offered inside of Iran for anyone who captures the pilots. And
obviously, that would be a worst-case scenario for the United States, in addition, of course, to the potential death of these pilots, but it would
certainly be something that the U.S. would have serious concerns about.
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If these pilots were captured by Iran, that would be a significant point of leverage for the Iranian regime as it relates to the future of these
hostilities, the future of the war and any potential ceasefire agreement between these two sides. We're very far away from that possibility as right
now.
We don't know what the status of those pilots is, and we understand that those search and rescue efforts are indeed under way. More broadly in the
conflict we have been watching as Iran has fired several waves of ballistic missiles at Israel today, once again, the Israeli military, for its part,
carried out strikes in Iran.
In fact, they just announced a series of strikes in the last 10 minutes that are happening in Tehran. So certainly, the fact that these pilots have
gone down is not deterring ongoing military operations, ongoing Israeli strikes inside of Iran. And we know that a lot of the focus of the Israeli
military right now in Iran is aimed at continuing to diminish Iran's ballistic missile capability.
They took out the Israeli military took out a commander of Iran's ballistic missile unit in one of the regions of Iran just yesterday. We understand,
of course, from our reporting that about half of Iran's ballistic missile launchers have been destroyed. That is a smaller figure than the 70 plus
percent that Israel says have been destroyed or disabled.
And the distinction between those is the fact that there are some of these ballistic missile launchers that are buried deep beneath the rubble of
Israeli and American strikes, meaning they can't be recovered right now, but months down the line, once the rubble is cleared, those missile
launchers could potentially go back into service, Bianna.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, there's reporting that they can be uncorked within a matter of 24 hours, in fact. So therein lies some of the discrepancy in
terms of the figures of those launchers that have been destroyed. Jeremy Diamond, thank you. We're going to follow up with Haley as well.
ASHER: Right. So, Haley, just in terms of what Jeremy was talking about, there this idea that, according to U.S. intelligence, around half of Iran's
ballistic missile launches remain intact. I remember at the start of this war, speaking to a lot of analysts, they were saying that, you know, Iran
had roughly around 3000 maybe 2500 ballistic missiles in its arsenal, and then on top of that, obviously many, many more drones.
But the goal was, or the hope was, especially among the Americans, was that Iran would only be able to last maybe a month, maybe just a few weeks,
before their stockpile eventually ran out. The fact that only half of their ballistic missile launches have been decimated at this point in time.
This is, according to U.S. intelligence, really proves that this is going to be, or is rather, a formidable foe for the Americans. Walk us through
that, Haley.
BRITZKY: Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, there are concerns about how much longer this will take. We heard the president sort of laying out this two-
to-three-week time frame when he gave his address to the nation earlier this week. But as a source told me for this reporting that we put out
yesterday about this intelligence, that to say this would take another two weeks.
They said you'd have to be out of your mind to think that this would be able to be accomplished in two weeks, given the challenges that we're
already seeing. And largely those challenges with some of these launchers are because Iran has hidden them within these networks of tunnels and
caves.
They're very mobile, they're easy to sort of shoot, come back underground, move elsewhere, so they're difficult for the U.S. and for Israel to track.
And we know that Iran has made efforts to try to sort of dig some of these out that have been buried in these tunnels by U.S. strikes.
A source said, yesterday that the U.S. has sort of been targeting some of these this heavy equipment they've seen Iran pull towards the entrance some
of these tunnels in an effort to try to dig them out. But it does raise questions about the reality of what we're hearing publicly from the
administration officials saying this is largely over, that this can be wrapped up quickly.
It is essentially one. And what we're seeing in this intelligence that sources are reporting back to us on. So, you know, we are still kind of
waiting to see what more could come of this. Another primary part of this is that the Strait of Hormuz obviously still not open.
The administration sort of acknowledging, privately, they may not be able to promise that it's open before the war is ended. And the U.S. has said
that Iranian navy ships have been largely destroyed, that the Iranian navy has been largely destroyed, but we still don't know what of that is, the
Iranian navy versus the navy belonging specifically to the IRGC.
And officials declined to sort of parse that out for us and specify which of those are the ones being targeted and decimated here. So, a lot of
questions still remaining about the reality on the ground.
ASHER: All right. Haley Britzky, Jeremy Diamond, thank you both so much.
GOLODRYGA: We're tracking two very high-level firings that are rocking Washington as well. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth ousting the U.S. Army
Chief of Staff, General Randy George. A U.S. official says Hegseth also fired two other army generals.
ASHER: And for the second time in a month, the Cabinet Secretary has been dismissed as well. President Trump firing Attorney General Pam Bondi this
week following the recent dismissal of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem. Sources say that Trump was frustrated with Bondi's handling of the
Epstein files, among other things.
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GOLODRYGA: Our next guest is Democratic Senator Chris Coons. He serves on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, among many others, and joins us
from Wilmington, Delaware. Senator, great to have you on, as noted and as you've been following a lot of news to get to you about.
Let's start with the state of the war in Iran. The president earlier this week addressing the nation, saying that most of the U.S. objectives in this
war have already been met, and he laid out a two-to-three-week timeline for when he thinks the United States will be wrapping up.
But yesterday, Former Biden Administration official, Admiral John Kirby, was on our network, and he warned that his worst-case scenario would be the
United States, quote, pulling the plug early, leaving the regime still in power to propagate terrorism.
So how do you reconcile your own warnings of what you have described as a reckless war of choice with the real dangers that even some in your own
party and the Biden Administration have said would be extremely dangerous if we leave this war without accomplishing the degradation of this regime?
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Look, Bianna, part of the challenge from the beginning of Trump's war of choice against Iran was the lack of clarity
about his goals. Finally, after a month, he delivered an address to the nation, but honestly, after listening to his remarks on Wednesday night, I
had no clear sense of exactly what his priorities are, what our objectives are, and how he thinks they can be accomplished in two weeks.
I'll agree with Admiral Kirby that the Iranian regime is a terrible regime for decades, engaged in killing Americans, in spreading terrorism
throughout the region, and in threatening Israel and the United States with attack, possibly someday, with a nuclear weapon. So, I in no way bemoan the
passing of the Ayatollah.
But what President Trump has done is to kick over a hornet's nest and to get the IRGC to use every tool they have, something they didn't do, the two
previous times that Trump ordered attacks on the senior leader of the IRGC, Qasem Soleimani, who was killed in his first term, or the attack on their
uranium enrichment program last summer.
By confusing means and ends, President Trump threatened at different times, regime change, which hasn't happened, obviously, the Iranian people have
not risen up and overthrown the theocratic regime in Tehran. He's threatened to end their military and has claimed that they've been
obliterated.
And now he has the additional problem of needing to reopen the Strait of Hormuz for the average American, gas is now over $4 a gallon, there is no
clear end in sight. And the Iranians have thousands and thousands of cheap and lethal Shahed drones, which they are firing all over the region
attacking oil and gas infrastructure, airports, our embassies and our bases.
So, I think the president needs to be clear with us about how much cost he's expecting the average American to bear? How many more Americans may
die in this ongoing war against Iran? And why he continues to say conflicting things about negotiating with a more reasonable and centrist
government in Iran?
Which I think is untrue. And moving thousands of our most capable troops, Marines and the 82nd airborne, into position to be ready to dramatically
escalate the war. After Wednesday's address, I couldn't tell where President Trump is trying to take us.
ASHER: Senator, there are over 1 million people in Lebanon who have been displaced by this war. At least 1000 people have been killed so far, we
know that hospitals are overwhelmed, there are blackouts, there's obviously infrastructure damage. And as somebody who I know cares deeply about the
continent where I'm from, Africa.
I'm sure you understand as well that the effects of this war are being felt as far away as Africa as well. Just in terms of rising food prices, the
rising cost of oil, which obviously increases transportation costs, the fact that you have humanitarian cargo and also fertilizer passing through
the Strait of Hormuz, that is also a massive problem.
So, as we debate, you know, the strategy of the Trump Administration and whether there's going to be regime change or not. How do we ensure that
civilian suffering does not become invisible here?
COONS: Thank you for the question, Zain. And as you well know, about a third of the world's fertilizer passes through the Strait of Hormuz, and
this is a critical time for the strait to be closed. I was just at a farm here in Delaware yesterday, and it's planting season.
If farmers don't get fertilizer on their fields and their crops growing in the next couple of weeks across the major countries of Africa and the
Middle East region, we're going to face another round of famine.
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This could be a bigger humanitarian disruption than we saw at the beginning of Russia's brutal invasion of Ukraine, when, as you'll remember, the loss
of the access to both grain ships and fertilizer coming out of the Black Sea caused huge disruptions for dozens of countries around the world.
The collateral damage of this war of choice is going to be enormous. And President Trump just sent to Congress a request for a budget that would
dramatically increase how much we spend on defense and cut how much we spend on child care, Medicare, Medicaid.
So here in the United States, President Trump is doubling down on what I think was a mistake last year, of ending USAID dramatically cutting our
support for humanitarian causes feeding the hungry around the world. He now wants the average American to also bear the added cost of cutting, closing
down or shifting to states, the social programs that help keep us healthy, help feed our children and help us be respected around the world.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, we'll get to the historic 1.5 trillion-dollar defense budget that the White House has asked for just this morning in a moment.
But I do want to ask you about another issue that has risen once again, and that is concern over the unity of NATO here, given the president repeatedly
stressing his frustration with NATO for what he calls the lapse on their part, for not joining the United States in its war here with Iran and
threatening to leave NATO.
You alongside Senator McConnell, have written a harsh statement and an important statement to remind members of Congress and the United States as
a whole that NATO allies bled alongside the United States service men and women after 9/11, given your statement, Is the Senate prepared to pass
binding legislation to block a unilateral withdrawal?
COONS: Well, Bianna, strikingly, we have already done that. And it was then Senator Marco Rubio who joined with Senator Tim Kaine in leading an
amendment to the annual Defense Authorization Act now, two years ago. The NATO Treaty did not have a clause that barred a U.S. President from
unilaterally withdrawing, because we never imagined that that would happen.
But given Trump's threats to withdraw from NATO during his first term, two years ago, Congress came together and passed an amendment to the statute
that says a president cannot unilaterally withdraw from NATO. It requires an affirmative vote of Congress. And part of the point, that Senator
McConnell and I were making is that NATO continues to enjoy bipartisan support in the Senate because it has contributed to our security.
Look, one of the confounding things about President Trump is that he doesn't take credit for some of the things he's accomplished. Last year, he
pushed and berated NATO into stepping up and contributing dramatically more to our collective security, not 2 percent of their GDP, but 3.5 percent.
And our European allies have taken on the tens of billions of dollars of cost of buying weapons for Ukraine to defend themselves. And in this
current moment, Trump is doing incredible things. He's lifted the sanctions on Russia's sale of oil and Iran sale of oil so that Iran and Russia are
making more money.
And President Zelenskyy of Ukraine has visited our allies in the Gulf and is offering them assistance with defending them against Iranian drones,
something that we should be supporting. President Trump has our partnerships and our alliances all backwards.
He misunderstands how NATO works and why it's brought value to the United States. He did not consult with them before starting this war, and is now
blaming them for not joining us in a war he'd ever consulted with them about. It's dizzying. And last to go back to your first point, Secretary
Hegseth just fired a four-star general in the middle of a war who is a respected combat veteran with decades of service.
And here, on the eve of Easter, on Good Friday, he also fired, for the first time in history, the leading army chaplain. It is striking that
Secretary Hegseth that President Trump's direction has fired dozens of senior generals and admirals. That does not make us safer, and it does not
provide the confidence within the ranks of our armed forces and the confidence among the American people that we should be looking for in a
time of war and in a time of global rising risk.
ASHER: Senator, you said many times that this is clearly a war of choice.
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And yes, of course, I mean, a lot of people, lot of people, a lot of Democrats, believe that the president should not have entered this war in
the first place. But now that the U.S. is in this war. I mean, there are, at least from my perspective, no sort of good clean options in terms of how
to end this war.
There's only sort of less bad ones, if you were going to advise the president on the best way to exit this war in a clean way, and the best way
to sort of find a clean off ramp to this war. And you've got to bear in mind deterrence. You've got to bear in mind America's credibility, and what
how you end this war would mean for that.
What do you think is the best way to end this war responsibly, Senator, at this point?
COONS: First, engage with our allies, instead of berating them, belittling them, threatening them, the countries that have minesweepers, the actual
ships that are capable of clearing the Strait of Hormuz from the naval mines that Iran is still readily able to put in the straits and close them
down.
It's our NATO allies who have minesweepers. The Trump Administration pulled the last four American minesweepers out of the Persian Gulf just a month
before the war started. So, begin by working with our allies, embrace Ukraine's offer of the world's best defenses against drones.
Partner with the countries like the Emirates, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, in coming up with a common objective to reopen the
strait and to continue the pressure campaign against Iran, find a pathway forward that will de-escalate, the daily exchange of drones and missiles
allow us to re arm and put sustained pressure on Iran by choking off their ability to export oil, not by seizing Kharg Island, an expensive and risky
operation, but by blockading Iran.
We using U.S. military and naval forces and allied naval forces prevent Iran from shipping its oil to the world markets and reopen the Strait of
Hormuz to our allied partners in the Persian Gulf.
GOLODRYGA: So quickly, Senator, before we let you go, given your concerns about the state of the war and how it's being conducted here, in addition
to concerns about what looks like politically motivated purges by the Secretary of Defense. Will Democrats, should Democrats on the
Appropriations Committee approve this budget request?
COONS: It's very unlikely that we will approve this budget request, given the cuts to critically needed domestic programs and the dramatic increase.
Look, my sources suggest the Pentagon had no plans to request another $500 billion that this number really was picked out of thin air by President
Trump, who tweeted it out because it sounded tough and big.
I don't believe they can spend another $500 billion in the coming year. And there's a number of areas, like the Golden Dome program, which are ill
defined and ill considered. We should be providing a raise to the men and women of our armed forces. We should be replenishing our stockpiles of
critically needed munitions.
And there are programs that I have voted to increase our investment in, and would do so again, but an increase of this size with cuts to domestic
programs and without support to our vital allies like Ukraine, our partner in fighting for freedom in Europe, I won't support that at all.
GOLODRYGA: So, you're -- on this. Senator, Chris Coons, thank you.
ASHER: It's good to see you. Thank you, Senator.
COONS: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: -- happy holidays to you.
ASHER: Right. She appeared to be one of Trump's most loyal Cabinet members. Up next, what brought Pam Bondi down, and who exactly is likely to replace
her? That's next.
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GOLODRYGA: All right. Welcome back to "One World". We want to take a closer look at the firing of Attorney General Pam Bondi. She had the shortest
tenure of any confirmed attorney general in the past 60 years. Sources tell CNN, President Trump grew frustrated with Bondi on several fronts.
ASHER: Yeah, among them his view that she failed successfully to prosecute his perceived political enemies and the bungled release of the Epstein
file. She's scheduled to testify before House Committee on the files this month. It's not clear if that testimony is actually going to happen after
all.
GOLODRYGA: Alayna Treene joins us now with a look at what comes next. And Alayna, I think it was "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board that
really put truth to bear today in their piece stating that attorney general jobs are always difficult, but especially an attorney general position for
this president notoriously difficult.
She walked his and towed his line, defending the president every which way she could, and at the end of the day, she ultimately didn't give him what
he wanted. So, what does that say about who replaces her?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it wasn't enough for the president. She was constantly, you know, in these hearings on Capitol
Hill, defending him, defending his agenda, against an onslaught, I should argue, of criticism from lawmakers. But again, that loyalty didn't go this
far.
To your point about, you know, with that "The Wall Street Journal" editorial page, just kind of going into how tough of a job this is. I mean,
I'd remind you that I remember during the transition, I was down in Florida near Mar-a-Lago, where the president was.
And I was consistently told in all of my conversations with those who were involved in the discussions over the attorney general pick, but that, that
was the number one position that the president cared about. So, this is a major role, and it goes to show just how important a lot of the
frustrations he had with Bondi were, and that ultimately led to this firing.
Now to get into a little bit of our reporting, you touched on some of it, but our sources in the West Wing have said that this has been a key
frustration with Bondi over the last several months, and actually he came close to finding her back in January. I was actually told by one person
familiar with some of these discussions that Susie Wiles, she is, of course, the president's chief of staff, very close to President Donald
Trump.
She's also someone who's very close to Pam Bondi. Their relationship goes back many years from their time working in Florida politics. She actually
had intervened on a couple of occasions to try and advocate for Bondi, but it really did hit a fever pitch earlier this week, we told so much so that
Bondi was actually kind of seeing the writing on the wall, even, as you know, Wednesday, just hours before the president actually met with Bondi
and informed her that he was going to be firing her.
She was just accompanying the president to oral arguments at the Supreme Court. So, it shows you just how quickly a lot of these changes now. And to
your point, just the reasonings for this, you're exactly right. One of the key frustrations, we're told, is her handling of the Epstein files,
something you've heard many White House officials, some even publicly acknowledging that she mishandled and that has been a core weakness for the
Trump Administration and Republicans more broadly.
But he's also been frustrated about her lack of going after some political foes. You kind of saw that in back in September, when the president, in a
now infamous post directed her to be more aggressive with her indictments. All to say, as of now, temporarily we're seeing Bondi's Former Deputy Todd
Blanche and also the president's former attorney.
He is filling in her shoes in the lead -- Justice Department role for the time being. And we're told that the number one person under consideration
to replace her is currently the president's EPA Administrator, Lee Zeldin.
[11:30:00]
But we'll have to see whether or not that comes to fruition.
GOLODRYGA: Alayna Treene at the White House for us. Thank you.
ASHER: All right, still to come. Israel is expanding its incursion into Southern Lebanon, and it's not planning to leave anytime soon. We'll
explain after the break.
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ASHER: All right. Welcome back to "One World". I'm Zain Asher.
GOLODRYGA: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Here some of the headlines we're watching today. U.S. sources say an American fighter jet has been shot down
over Iran. Right now, search and rescue efforts are underway as Iran state media posted this image of a damaged fighter jet ejection seat.
A CNN analysis found that it is consistent with the type used in an F-15 jet.
ASHER: A U.S. intelligence assessment shows that Iran still has significant missile launching capability and thousands of drones in its arsenal. That's
according to three sources familiar with the Intel who spoke exclusively to CNN. A Pentagon spokesperson has disputed the reporting, calling it
completely wrong.
GOLODRYGA: A French own container ship crossed the Strait of Hormuz late Thursday. That is, according to marine traffic data. The vessel would be
the first western flagship to cross the channel since the Iran war began.
ASHER: Gas prices in Hong Kong have passed $15 per gallon. That's the highest in the world. The city already had sky high petrol prices before
the U.S. went to war with Iran. Hong Kong and much of Asia relies heavily on Middle Eastern oil that flows through the Strait of Hormuz, which Iran
has effectively shut down.
All right. Israel is mulling destroying Southern Lebanese towns and villages close to its border to create a buffer zone. That's according to
an Israeli military official. The proposal is one of many the IDF is considering for its war against Hezbollah, and it would need to be approved
by Israel's political leadership.
GOLODRYGA: This comes as Israel's defense minister said on Tuesday that the IDF plans to keep parts of Southern Lebanon under its control to maintain
security. Now this could cover some 15 to 20 miles north of the Israeli border, up to Litani River.
[11:35:00]
As for the thousands of residents impacted by the operation, Katz said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISRAEL KATZ, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER: The return of more than 600,000 residents of Southern Lebanon who evacuated northward will be completely
prohibited south of the Litani until the safety and security of northern residents are insured. And all the houses and villages near the border in
Lebanon will be destroyed, according to the model of Rafah and Beit Hanoun in Gaza, to remove once and for all the threats near the border to northern
residents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Right. For more on all this, let's bring in Jonathan Conricus, Former Spokesperson for the IDF, and Senior Fellow at the Foundation for
the Defense of Democracy. Jonathan, always good to see you. Thank you so much for joining us. So, I want to talk about the Strait of Hormuz, because
Israel gets the bulk of its oil shipments from Azerbaijan, and it generates a lot of its electricity from natural gas.
But obviously, gas prices are higher in Israel. I mean, it affects everybody across the entire world, because 20 percent of the world's oil
passes through the Strait of Hormuz. And so, what's interesting, I think, is that the calculation, though, among Israelis is different.
Their sort of, their focus, as I understand it, correct me, if I'm wrong, is national security. National security, and the imminent threat that has
been posed by Iran for many, many decades, is so important that the economic pain is almost, as I understand, it a minor price to pay.
When you think about the Americans, though the calculation is very different, because here in the U.S., gas prices are such an important
political issue that the U.S. is under so much pressure to find a way out of this war. So, my question to you is, if the war in Iran ends in two to
three weeks, as the president is touting, without any kind of regime change, knowing that the Iranians without regime change are simply going to
work very, very hard after this war ends to build up their weaponry and their arsenal.
Will this entire exercise, Jonathan, have been a waste?
LT. COLONEL (RET.) JONATHAN CONRICUS, FORMER IDF SPOKESPERSON: Yes, well, hello and thanks for having me back on. No, I think there are tremendous
achievements already. And I think that before Israel and the U.S. are done, there will be even more important military achievements.
Military you know, officials from both countries have spoken about it at length. I won't, you know, repeat all the details, but taking their nuclear
capabilities off the table, their ballistic missile production capability, their ability to fire mostly, not yet all of it, but a lot of that has been
degraded, and there's still more to come.
But I think looking forward, you know, this will be a weakened and wounded Iranian regime, vulnerable to domestic and external pressure. But I think
if the U.S. and the world leave the Hormuz Strait like it is now in the hands of this regime that will probably, you know, enforce some kind of
protection racket whereby countries like the French have obviously done, will be paying or conceding otherwise diplomatically in order to get goods
across the strait.
That's a very bad recipe for the future, and that would send a very, I think, bad message to other rogue nations around the world that they could
do the same things that the Iranian regime is doing and get away with it. I don't think that's going to happen. I think that at the end of the day, the
U.S. will probably be in the leading position, hopefully European, Arab and maybe even Asian countries will say, OK, it is in our interest to make sure
that nobody has the power to close an important international waterway.
And therefore, we will pry it open. We will pry it open using military tools, which is possible, not something that is impossible to do. And I
think that's where things are going as
of now.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, I think that we have conflicting reports about how many of these vessels have actually paid and whether they have paid in Chinese
yuan, which is a whole other conversation to be had about some of the consequences of this war.
CONRICUS: Yeah.
GOLODRYGA: But I do want to ask you about what's happening with regards to the north there and the fighting against Hezbollah, because Israel has
directed the majority of its forces there and resources to Iran, and yet we see Hezbollah continue to volley about 200 or so projectiles a day into
Israel.
We hear these threats from the defense minister, and yes, there are humanitarian concerns. You hear all of the pushback from international
bodies, Jonathan. But there's internal pushback and concern among Israeli military and former officials as well that some are calling this push to
the Litani River, I'm going to quote, a march of folly.
Is Israel actually going to be able to secure the north here, or is this going to be one another, unthinkable war with Lebanon, where you are going
to see not only a humanitarian crisis, but a loss of a number of Israeli soldiers as well.
[11:40:00]
CONRICUS: What I think we're seeing is classic Israeli strategic miscommunication. Minister Katz isn't the person who should be
communicating this. This should be communicated by first and foremost, the prime minister, and it should be something that is first and foremost dealt
with diplomatically and coordinated with the U.S., with France and with other parties, and then declared by whatever official.
And it's the other way around here, and that's unfortunate. I think what Minister Katz should have said from the beginning is listen the dear state
of Lebanon, on our border to the north. We have no essential issue with you. Our issue is with the fact that you are not sovereign, and you've been
allowing Hezbollah time and time again to use your country as a launch pad against our civilians, and you got away with it once, twice, three times.
Now, Israel is changing the rules of the game. And we are saying that you are no longer going to be allowed to facilitate attacks from Lebanese soil
against Israeli civilians without paying a price. What's the price? No longer only destruction of Hezbollah infrastructure and the other parts
that support it, but Israel is going to take at least temporarily terrain and hold on to it, because we know that that is really eventually what
hurts.
Now I would distinguish between two very important parts of this big chunk of land, which is south of the Litani. There are the Shiite villages that
are in immediate proximity to the Israeli-Lebanese border, or the blue line there, I think not much will be left the day after the war, because all of
these villages, some 20 or so villages, all of the Shiite ones, there are three Christian ones.
They are out of the game. But the Shiite ones, they have been used systematically by Hezbollah to conduct attacks against Israel. And the
understanding in Israel is, as long as those villages exist, they will be used by Hezbollah in the future. So, the quick conclusion is, let's not
have that infrastructure there, so that they won't be able to be used by Hezbollah.
The other parts of Southern Lebanon, of the south of the Litani, totally different ball game. And I seriously doubt that Israel really thinks about,
you know, taking sovereign land of another country. I don't think it would be very useful. I think that what Israel probably will end up doing is
clearing a perimeter immediately north of the border, that will enhance security for Israeli civilians.
And then the other part will be to apply pressure on the Lebanese government to do what they have said that they're going to do, to disarm
Hezbollah and to become a sovereign country in control of their territory.
ASHER: Jonathan, just going back to the war in Iran in chess, just like in war, you always have to think two or three steps ahead. You constantly have
to think about what your opponent is going to do next. And one of the biggest criticisms that the Americans and the Israelis got at the start of
this war was that they saw taking out the Ayatollah as a moment of opportunity, because you had all these sorts of senior Iranian officials
gathered in the same room.
But there was not much thought about what would happen the next day, and that is why the U.S. is in this bind right now, especially with the closure
of the Strait of Hormuz. At this particular point in time, now that we are in this war, bearing in mind there's an important lesson being learned here
about the importance of thinking 10 steps ahead.
How much are the Israelis really thinking about how they want to engage with a post war Iran, especially if this regime is still in place?
CONRICUS: Yeah, I would seriously doubt the veracity of that, because I think what I've seen in U.S. and Israeli planning, what I've spoken with
Israeli officials and heard American general speak about, that isn't the case. There was a lot of planning here. There was a lot of foresight.
And there's a whole strategic build up. And what we're seeing is a systematic takeover, systematic grinding of Iranian military capabilities,
slowly but surely, their ability to project force, their ability to continue with their strategy of using proxies, of firing missiles, of
threatening the use of -- or having a nuclear umbrella in order to be the regional bully, all of that is being dismantled, and it's a matter of time.
Wars are not won. You know, instantly, I know that in this day and age, we all expect things to happen fast and without casualties and to be instant.
That isn't how wars are won. The enemy is fighting back. But at the end of the day, what I'm seeing in military terms is a gradually developing plan,
military plan, where the only X factor, and albeit a very important one, is, how does the Iranian regime get toppled?
And that, I agree, there's a lot of grays in that topic.
[11:45:00]
I think currently what Israel is busy doing and some of it, together with the U.S., is weakening the regime, weak, softening its grip on the
population, to such an extent that it will become easier and possible for the Iranian people to reclaim their freedom. I agree that isn't easy.
It's not something that you can chart on a map and you have certainty how it's going to develop, and we don't know exactly how the Iranian people
will be able to rally. We don't know how cruel and violent the Iranian regime will be in response, but I think what Israel is doing is really
facilitating for that to happen.
And it's going to be tremendously interesting to revisit this conversation, you know, a few months ahead of now after this, and I think what we'll be
able to establish then will be that there was indeed a plan, there was indeed a lot of thinking, and that it will work. And I think that the days
of this Iranian regime actually are numbered.
I know that this is a minority opinion in international media today. I believe that, that is the case. And I think that in a few more months, the
Iranian people will be free, and we will be in a new Middle East.
ASHER: Well, we'll see, because the president keeps on saying two more weeks. Every two weeks says two more weeks. Two more weeks. We'll see how
this --
GOLODRYGA: And he also says, who knew that the Iranians would be attacking their GCC neighbors, when you know two things can be right at the same
time, military planners could have foreseen that when the President of the United States says that he was surprised, that leads to Zain's question
about what was the actual planning here?
Jonathan Conricus, it's good to see you as always. Thank you.
CONRICUS: Thank you.
ASHER: Thanks, Jonathan. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHER: Right, Nigerian Artist, CKay has carved out a unique path in the Afrobeat world. Just 30 years old and with more than a billion streams on
Spotify. He's bringing a fresh new sound to the genre.
GOLODRYGA: Yeah, the multi-platinum emo-Afrobeats pioneer sat down with CNN's Larry Madowo for in Lagos, for the month Africa, for this month's
African voices change makers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When people look back on your industry and your impact in it, what do you want them to say you made better or changed?
CKAY, NIGERIAN ARTIST: I put a lot of emotions back into Afrobeats, with emo-Afrobeats, and everything we did with, you know, TikTok, playing live
instruments, doing all that stuff. It contributed to the industry in the sense that a lot of people, either their sound was influenced by this or
their strategy was influenced by this?
[11:50:00]
MADOWO: Is there something in the industry you'd like to change?
CKAY: In the Nigerian industry, specifically, I've seen so many situations where, you know, a song or a moment that was clearly deserving of
recognition did not get recognition, you know. And every time it happens, I always think it's very unfair, you know. And I would like that to change,
you know, because, for instance, I would say, with my music, Love Nwantiti Emiliana, all these records that you know, diamond records, platinum.
In Nigeria, they didn't win many awards in Nigeria. They were not nominated for some Nigerian awards, you know, but they were celebrated abroad even
more, you know. So why is that? And I also want people to, I want the overall process of making music in Nigeria to improve, you know, in the
Afrobeat space, there's like a stigma against songwriters.
I also want to reinforce that it's OK to involve people in your process and to, you know, have teamwork.
MADOWO: So, what's your advice for people who want to make it in music?
CKAY: I'll say number one, you really have to be yourself, because in your journey, you'll find many -- you meet so many people along the way who will
be trying so hard to make you to be everything but yourself. And many of them will seem to be speaking from a place of authority or knowledge.
But many times, it's just nonsense. You have to really, really be yourself. That's one. Two, I think you have to always be committed to growth and
learning, no matter what stage you are in your career. And three, I would say, you know, be close to God. You know, I feel by the time, you know, I'm
done here, I want to look at the industry and smile and, you know, know that, OK, the industry will be all right. You know, Afrobeats will be all
right, basically.
MADOWO: Right. Yeah.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: -- a successful maneuver known as a trans lunar injection burn. That's what Zain and I do every day, which set Orion on its path to the
Moon, making the Artemis crew the first humans to leave Earth's orbit since the Apollo 17 mission in 1972 truly a historic moment.
[11:55:00]
We'll continue to watch their flight there and their journey over the next 10 days.
ASHER: Yeah, we've actually got a NASA expert joining us next hour to discuss this. Right. Stay with "One World". We'll have more "One World"
after the short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
