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One World with Zain Asher

Sources: Search Underway After U.S. Fighter Jet Shot Down In Iran; Hegseth Fires U.S. Army Chief Of Staff, Two More Generals; Sources: U.S. Rescued One Of The Downed American Pilots In Iran; Cuba To Free More Than 2,000 Prisoners As Crisis Deepens; Artemis II Leaves Earth's Orbit On Journey To Moon; Holy Week For Jews And Christians Amid Times Of War; Aired 12-1p ET

Aired April 03, 2026 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:17]

ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Coming to you live from New York, I'm Zain Asher.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: And Bianna Golodryga. You're watching the second hour of "One World."

For the first time in the U.S. Israeli war with Iran, U.S. sources say an American fighter jet has been shot down over Iran.

The White House, as President Trump, has been briefed, but there's been no military or White House comments so far on the status of the crew.

Sources say search and rescue efforts are currently underway for two pilots who were in the plane. These images from Iranian media appear to show part

of the wreckage.

ASHER: And in CNN exclusive reporting, sources say U.S. intelligence indicates that roughly half of Iran's missile launchers remain intact.

This is all happening amid major shakeups at the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth ousting the U.S. Army Chief of Staff General Randy

George. A U.S. official says that Hegseth also fired two other Army generals as well.

GOLODRYGA: Haley Britzky has been tracking this breaking news for us and she joins us from Washington.

So, Haley, as this search and rescue mission is underway, it is understandable that we're not getting much information from the Pentagon.

And, of course, our thoughts are with those pilots. And we hope that they are alive and OK. But just what do we know about the plane? Because I

believe initially, Iran said this was an F-35. Now we -- we say it's an F- 15.

And when did this happen? What was the timeframe?

HALEY BRITZKY, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes. So earlier today, we know that this F-15, as you just mentioned, I mean the photos that came out

from Iranian state media saying this was an F-35, but we have deciphered that this was an F-15.

F-15 is a two-seater plane, which we know there are two pilots that are now being searched -- searched for who went down with this aircraft.

But like you said, I mean the military has not commented on this yet. We haven't heard from U.S. Central Command officially yet. And we know the

president has been briefed.

So there's a lot of information we're still trying to figure out here about what exactly happened. We know that Iranian state media has, you know, been

offering a reward for anyone who might be able to capture, they say, enemy pilot or pilots, which is certainly concerning.

But this is a really significant escalation and -- and development in this conflict that administration officials have, thus far, been kind of

painting as largely won, primarily over, that the president could end it at any time.

The Secretary of Defense said, or last month, earlier last month, that Iran had no air defenses left. And so clearly that doesn't appear to be the case

here. U.S. forces very much still at risk in the region.

As you said, this would be the first time that a fighter jet would have been shot down over Iran. The first time that an F-15 would have been shot

down ever by enemy fire.

And so we -- we did report last month that an F-35 was hit by Iranian fire, though it landed safely at a U.S. installation in the region.

So certainly our thoughts, as you said, are with these pilots and with the families back home. We know family members of service members without

little, you know, with little information about what is going on are going to be really concerned, watching, and hoping to hear good news about their

loved ones.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Of course, we are thinking of them. And we do know that these pilots are expertly trained for scenarios just like this one. So, of

course, we -- we are still hoping that they are rescued and that they are in good health.

Haley Britzky, you will stay on this subject and topic for us for the hours to come. Thanks so much.

ASHER: All right. Here with us to discuss the latest developments in the war is General Wesley Clark, NATO's former Supreme Allied Commander for

Europe. General, thank you so much for being with us.

As you know, war is generally quite chaotic, obviously very unpredictable. And the last thing you want to do is add to that chaos and

unpredictability. And so when you have a situation whereby Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth essentially is firing the Army Chief, somebody who

is, of course, responsible for planning, strategy, for executing this war, how much is that concerned you, especially at a time that is so sensitive?

You know, your thoughts on that because obviously the last thing you want necessarily is for it to affect morale. And it does -- it might, I should

say, imply a sudden sort of change in strategy. Just give us -- give us your take on it.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: Well, the Army Chief of Staff would be -- he would be part of the Joint Chiefs of

Staff and he would have some say on the strategy. But the strategies essentially run between the Secretary of Defense and the U.S. Central

Command, which is Navy Admiral Cooper out in the region.

And so only on the sidelines is the Army Chief of Staff involved. He would be talking about the risks to Army soldiers. And so I'm sure there was

tension in talking about what to do about the islands. Are we going to take Kharg? What's the risk?

[12:05:10]

And I'm sure there's a lot of discussion going on in the building about this. And as always in a military operation, there's just a lot of

different ideas and a lot of pressure coming from the top.

You can imagine that President Trump and Secretary Hegseth want this to succeed. They're trying everything to make it succeed. And -- and they're

asking hard questions. And they're getting answers. They may not always like the answers coming up from the organizations. And so this creates a

lot of stress.

I've been in this when I was a NATO commander. We did the air campaign over Serbia. And there was a lot of back and forth and a lot of tension, a lot

of pressure going in all directions. And so that -- that's just the way these are.

Now, why General Randy George was fired? We don't actually know. Some people say it was because he stood his ground and didn't want the Secretary

of Defense to mess with the promotion list that the Department of the Army had submitted. It has to go through the Secretary of Defense.

I suppose legally, when he passes it to the president, he has the right to pull names off. But it's unprecedented. And it may have been what caused

the break. We don't know that. And we may never know.

There are a lot of good people in the chain of command. Process for promotion selection is proven and -- and -- and very reputable. And so we

just have to wait and see as if the smoke clears on this.

I think it is an incident that is peripheral to what's going on over Iran right now in the air campaign.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. By all accounts, General George was highly revered and respected across all political lines. And this does, from reporting, at

least suggests, this was a politically motivated purge.

But as it relates to the war in Iran itself, and now with this breaking news of this downed F-15 jet, general, you have overseen situations similar

to this. We should note, after more than 20,000 airstrikes, successful airstrikes, this is the first down plane in this war. We are hoping that

these pilots are recovered safely.

Just walk us through the risks in that search and recovery process itself. And also, do you think this -- this news now will change the calculus of

the Pentagon's planning here given the 20,000 successful strikes that they've made, this being obviously something that is not one of those?

CLARK: It may. Let's go -- let's go to the last first, Bianna. It may change the way the pilots approach this, because we don't know whether or

not there are new systems that have been brought into Iran sent by the Russians.

We know the Russians are trying to supply things. We know there was a contract signed in January that they would provide updated MANPADs, the

shoulder-fired anti-aircraft weapons, and it's possible that the F-15 taking action was within the envelope, range envelope, of those shoulder-

fired systems, or some new system that had been brought in. So we'll continually adjust the tactics on this. That's -- that's the basis for how

we operate.

Now, as for the deeper questions, I don't think that this can really affect the continuation of the air campaign.

In my experience, when we did this, in -- in over Yugoslavia, over Kosovo and Serbia in 1999, we did lose an aircraft. And -- and it was a scramble

on the ground. The pilot ejected. He has a beacon. And it does transmit his location. And he has a radio and aircraft came in to help.

There was an air cover for the helicopters. And there was scrambling around on the ground. It was at night. And the helicopters had come to pick them

up are well-armed and able to protect themselves. And in both cases, for stealth aircraft and for an F-16, we recovered the pilots.

It's tense times now. What's happening on the ground, we don't know exactly. We don't want to know, actually. But it is either now or soon will

be dark over there, if one or both of the pilots did successfully eject, and they haven't been picked up yet, they're going to be scrambling.

They're going to be looking for cover. They're going to be waiting for the helicopter to come in and get them and dodging any patrols or -- or local

populace that's on the ground.

And -- and so it'll be a -- a hectic few hours for them. But I have confidence in our systems. We really practice this. We know what we're

doing. We have the ability to go and get our pilots.

[12:10:08]

And so if they have ejected successfully, if they can move and maneuver, I think there's a -- a high degree of confidence we should have. We'll get

them back.

ASHER: General, we just got a report essentially saying that after over a month of this war, that Iran still retains half of its ballistic missile

launchers. And I think that a lot of people at the start of this war thought that it would be not necessarily quick and easy, but that the --

that because Iran only had a limited number of weaponry, a limited to number of stockpiles just in terms of ballistic missiles, obviously, many

more drones, but around 2,500, 3,000 ballistic missiles that eventually they would run out.

The fact that after a month they still retain about half of their ballistic missile launchers, how concerning is that for you?

And actually, General --

CLARK: What we should --

ASHER: -- we just got breaking news. Just sorry to interrupt. Just got breaking news in my ear from our producer. That just in terms of Iran

apparently downing this U.S. fighter jet, that one of the pilots has actually been rescued.

Camille, the U.S. has now rescued one of the pilots. Is that correct? OK. So, General, your reaction to that. Sorry to pivot the question.

CLARK: I'm really happy. I'm really glad we got him back. We've got to find out what's happened to the other one now. And we won't know. We don't know.

And they may not know that -- they could have been separated when the ejection occurred.

So they may not have even seen each other, but we have to assume that both got out successfully and we've got to find the second one. Now, that's the

basic issue.

With respect to the -- the other issues, yes, I think there was. I think there's a greater appreciation now, I think, for the wiliness of the

Iranian security apparatus.

We should have learned it in June, and when they -- in -- in the June exchanges last year, they fired their worst missiles at Israel, to begin

with, in order to exhaust the defense interceptor missiles that Israel had.

And then at the end of the campaign, in the 10th, 11th, and 12th days, they began actually to penetrate Israeli defenses with more improved missiles.

So that should have been a real indicator.

And what we have right now is a situation in which there are some of these underground missile cities buried under hundreds of meters of granite,

which are impervious to normal bombing operations.

You can go after the doors. You can go after the launcher if it puts out a brief appearance. And what will happen is in war, there is adaptation. So

now we know what we're up against.

And I have confidence in the people in the U.S. Central Command and the intelligence organizations that are supporting them. We will adapt our

tactics to go after these mountain locations, the doors, and be able to, in greater -- with greater real time precision, knock out these launch sites.

How long this takes and what it takes to do it? I can't tell you because I'm not on the inside of the operation, but I do know we're -- we're a

learning organization. So when we see things that are different than what we expected, we want to adapt to them.

ASHER: All right. General Wesley Clark, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

GOLODRYGA: And again, to bring you our breaking news, CNN can confirm that the U.S. has rescued one of the two crew members from that fighter jet that

was downed over Iran from the F-15. So good news.

ASHER: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Hopefully they will find the other pilot shortly.

Meantime, the White House is seeking to increase defense spending to its highest level in modern history. It is requesting about $1.5 trillion for

defense in its fiscal 2027 budget request. That's about 40 percent higher than last year.

ASHER: Still Congress retains control over government spending. Last hour, we spoke to Democratic Senator Chris Coons and asked for his thoughts on

that hefty request.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): It's very unlikely that we will approve this budget request given the cuts to critically needed domestic programs and

the dramatic increase.

Look, my sources suggest the Pentagon had no plans to request another $500 billion that this number really was picked out of thin air by President

Trump who tweeted it out because it sounded tough and big. I don't believe they can spend another $500 billion in the coming year.

For the average American, gas is now over $4 a gallon. There's no clear end in sight. And the Iranians have thousands and thousands of cheap and lethal

Shahed drones, which they are firing all over the region, attacking oil and gas infrastructure, airports, our embassies and our bases.

So, I think the president needs to be clear with us about how much cost he's expecting the average American to bear, how many more Americans may

die in this ongoing war against Iran, and why he continues to say conflicting things about negotiating with a more reasonable and centrist

government in Iran, which I think is untrue, and moving thousands of our most capable troops, Marines and the 82nd Airborne, into position to be

ready to dramatically escalate the war.

[12:15:24]

After Wednesday's address, I couldn't tell where President Trump's trying to take us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHER: All right. Senator Chris Coons speaking there.

All right. Cuba's government has announced it will free more than 2,000 prisoners as the island's economy grinds to a near halt. The Trump

administration has effectively cut off the flow of oil in a bid to get Havana to make economic and political reforms.

GOLODRYGA: And CNN's Patrick Oppmann is in Havana with the latest on that. And was this expected, Patrick?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, it was a surprise. We have not seen a prisoner release like this in over a decade, really. You know,

they happen, but they've been much smaller in scale to have 2,000 prisoners released.

I can report that they've begun being released this morning. We were just coming from a Cuban prison where the first several dozen were being

released this morning. And, you know, people who had committed economic crimes like robbery and fraud and that kind of thing, but there is some

expectation or hope at least that there will be some political prisoners here, people that have protested against the government and some of the

large demonstrations over the years or -- or done anti-government signs, that -- that kind of thing.

The government says there is a category of prisoners they are not releasing. Obviously, people have committed violent crimes, but as well

people that they say have tried to bring down the government, they will not release them, but that might leave a space for others who have committed

political crimes, you know, crimes, things that wouldn't be a crime in other countries to -- to protest the government or to demonstrate against

the government, but does land you in jail often here.

So without mentioning the U.S. in this surprise announcement last night, clearly, it is a matter of U.S. pressure that is driving the Cuban

government to do things that in the past, they have simply resisted.

Now, some economic concessions released these kinds of prisoners, people who, for the most part, had served out their sentences. But it's -- it's

something we just simply have not seen in years past.

And there's a give and take going on. We saw earlier this week, the Trump administration allow oil from Russia to come in here, essentially get

around that oil blockade that Donald Trump had put in place three months ago.

And so that will be very helpful for this island to get through the next couple weeks. But, of course, this is an island that has run out of oil at

this point that is on fumes. And the economy, as you said, is basically cratering at this point.

You -- you almost don't see cars on the road in many parts of the island. The power is off more often than it is on. And -- and so can they come up

with a -- a larger deal that the Trump administration is pushing for?

You know, the Cuban government has resisted that. They do not want to open up the economy. They do not want to open up the political system to agreed

with Washington has long insisted on them doing. But at this point, it's not clear if they have any other choice.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Patrick Oppmann reporting live for us from Havana. Thank you so much.

We'll be right back after the break.

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[12:20:43]

ASHER: All right. Let's go back to our breaking news. Our sources telling CNN that the U.S. has rescued one, one of the pilots whose jet went down in

Iran.

Kristen Holmes is at the White House for us. So this is an F-15 jet. We know that it was search and rescue operations underway for both of the crew

members. We're understanding that the Americans have now rescued one of them. He's alive. He's receiving medical treatment

This is obviously good news, but what about the second?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, that is an ongoing search and rescue mission right now. We know that this is still

a very fluid situation. I do want to be clear, well, we know one of these crew members has been rescued and is in U.S. custody. Two of the three

sources we spoke to said that they are alive and getting medical treatment.

But this is all information that is coming through multiple channels. So we're still trying to figure out exactly what happened, exactly how this

rescue went, and what kind of ideas they have on the other person who is still there.

And, of course, as we've been reporting, at least according to Iranian state T.V., they are saying that they are also searching for this crew

member that they have put a reward out to find this crew member.

So, it really is a scramble to try and find this person before anyone else does, but there is good news in the sense that we're hearing from these

U.S. officials that at this time, one of the crew members has been rescued and is in U.S. custody.

ASHER: All right. Kristen Holmes live for us at the White House. Thank you so much.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Still to come on "One World."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The views are extraordinary. It's really fun to be floating around.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Sounds from the cockpit of the Artemis II. Ahead, a look at their journey to the dark side of the moon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:31]

GOLODRYGA: All right. Welcome back to "One World." I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. We are getting a live look at the cockpit of Artemis II, where the historic crew will soon be waking up for day three of

that journey to the moon.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. NASA released the very first images taken by astronauts aboard the Orion capsule, both images of Earth. The crew described Earth as

a pale blue dot. We're here waving back.

The four astronauts aboard the Orion spacecraft left Earth's orbit on Thursday. The first time that's happened since Apollo 17 in 1972.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINA KOCH, ARTEMIS II MISSION SPECIALIST: There's nothing that prepares you for the breathtaking aspect of seeing your home planet, both

lit up bright as day and also the moon glow on it at night with a beautiful beam of the sunset.

VICTOR GLOVER, PILOT, ARTEMIS II: We call amazing things that humans do moonshots for a reason because this brought us together and showed us what

we can do when we put -- not just putting our differences aside, when we bring our differences together and use all the strengths to accomplish

something great.

REID WISEMAN, COMMANDER, ARTMEIS II: We have been to the moon before in 1969, 1968 through 1972. It's been a long time since we've been back. And I

got to tell you, there is nothing normal about this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: CNN aerospace analyst, Miles O'Brien joins us now.

Miles, talk about history in the making here. Just have to go back to 1972, where, for the first time in a number of generations, you had people glued

to their phones, their computers at 5:00 P.M. during the launch and takeoff here earlier this week.

Thus far, everything seems to be a success. What are you watching for now two days into this mission?

MILES O'BRIEN, AEROSPACE ANALYST: Well, Bianna, I can hardly wait to see the images that we see as the crew breezes past the moon at a -- at a

fairly high altitude and -- and a little farther away from the moon than the Apollo astronauts ever were.

And -- and, presumably, they will get a chance to get a good image, not unlike what we saw during Apollo 8, the famous Earthrise image captured by

Bill Anders on that crew in 1968. They came over the limb of the moon, and there was this blue sphere rising, and it was Earth.

And interestingly, the Apollo astronauts, to a person, said they went to the moon to explore the moon, but they ended up focusing more on Earth and

appreciating it more. So it is an experience, I think, that takes us all back to our home planet in many respects.

ASHER: Yes. I mean, that just to your point, I mean, one of the things that Victor Glover, the pilot, actually said, is just seeing the Earth from that

perspective. He said, the first thing I would say is, trust us, you look amazing, you look beautiful, and up from up here, you all look like one

thing.

Homo sapiens is all of us, no matter where you're from, what you look like, we are all one people. That has always been my personal belief.

But, of course, that perspective, that view, it must change you, right?

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, there's actually been books written on this. They call it the overview effect. And, you know, there's probably about 600

people total in the world who have orbited the planet. And they all come back saying this same thing. We don't see borders up there. We see humanity

and -- and a beautiful spaceship that we call Earth.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could get more people to take that view of our planet and humanity? Wouldn't it bring us all together? Space has that

potential.

I was thinking about it the other day at the launch, you know. This is a moment of great division in our country and in the world. And yet, this --

that moment of seeing that rocket launch come together and that crew blast off to the moon proves that when humanity comes together with a greater

purpose, we can still do really interesting, good, and positive things. And it does, in that sense, I think, bring us all together.

GOLODRYGA: Also very humbling, too. I mean, at the end of the day, you've got presidents, billionaires, news anchors, analysts like yourself. We're

all here on Earth, and the only thing those -- those astronauts see are one small, big, blue dot. So that -- that is something --

O'BRIEN: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: -- to keep in mind.

ASHER: You know, and -- and such an important reminder at a time of division.

O'BRIEN: Everything you know is in the dot.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

[12:30:02]

ASHER: At a time of so much division, Miles.

O'BRIEN: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to disrupt you, Bianna.

ASHER: Oh, don't worry. Don't worry. But, you know, at a time of so much division, right, that is such an important reminder. That's why what Victor

Glover said moved me so deeply, because we're at a juncture right now where there is so much division among us as humans that you do need that

reminder.

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, I think it's -- you know, it's easy to look at this and say this is a frivolous expenditure, the ultimate discretionary

expenditure on the part of taxpayers. And, you know, you hear people make that argument. We have so many problems here on earth. Why would you spend

the money doing this?

Well, first of all, the money is spent here on earth. We don't ship the money up into space, of course.

But secondly, the -- the inspiration that it provides for all of us, and in particular for young people who are making decisions about what to study,

what interests them, what they want to emulate, all of that is sometimes difficult to quantify. But, you know, when you -- when you think about the

people who were, you know, sprinkled with moon dust as my generation was growing up in the '60s and how that changed the way their lives and their

careers and -- and the innovations they brought to the world came to us, it's kind of hard to overstate the value of it.

And when you consider what it costs relative to everything else, you could make the argument that it's worth the investment.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. It definitely had my kids' attention for all the right reasons when we were watching at dinner. One of the few times I was happy

to give them a phone at dinner time.

Keep them in school. Keep them dreaming for possibilities that one day they too can have experiences like this.

Miles O'Brien, thank you so much for sharing the time with us.

ASHER: All right. We're going to take a time out now from the stress and chaos that comes from living and increasingly, as we were just talking

about, literally, divided and polarized world.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. On this Good Friday, we're focusing on religion and faith. Pope Leo is presiding over his first holy week as Pope.

And we're also in the midst of Passover, one of the most significant and foundational holidays in Judaism. For Israelis, it comes as their country

is in the midst of another war on multiple fronts.

ASHER: For more on all this, we want to bring in Rabbi Angela Buchdahl and Christian Pastor Dr. Suzan Johnson Cook. Angela serves as the senior rabbi

at Central Synagogue in New York and is the author of this book, "Heart of a Stranger."

GOLODRYGA: And Susaz is also a best-selling book author. She wrote, "Too Blessed to be Stressed." And she published my fabulous fifth chapter. Both

women prolific writers.

ASHER: And we want to welcome both of them to the show right now.

Angela, let me start with you, Rabbi, because at this particular juncture of Passover, Good Friday, Easter, all sort of coinciding.

My thoughts are certainly with the level of civilian suffering that we are seeing right now in various countries across the world. The first two

countries that come to my mind are the innocent civilians in Lebanon, where we have seen a lot of people displaced by war and obviously a lot of people

who have been killed and also the civilian population in Iran, where a lot of these people have no say in what is happening in terms of their

countries going to war.

And as we talk about, I'm not sure if you heard our conversation with our previous guests speaking about astronauts in space, talking about just

seeing the Earth as this blue dot and how we are all one.

You know, we are at a time of so much division right now. And I think my question to you is, how can we support justice for our own people while at

the same time not losing compassion for people who worship differently to us?

RABBI ANGELA BUCHDAHL, SENIOR RABBI, CENTRAL SYNAGOGUE: At different times in history, different people have either been the ones who had power or

have been powerless. And for so much of Jewish history, we have been the ones without power.

And the mandate of that moral memory is that actually that we are not to oppress others because we know what it is to have the heart of a stranger.

We were strangers in the land of Egypt. That is straight out of the story that we, not only retell at Passover every year and our Seder around

tables, but it's actually not supposed to be ancient history, but something that each of us are supposed to imagine ourselves as being slaves.

And so it is actually the -- the mandate of that is a different kind of moral empathy.

GOLODRYGA: Rabbi, if I could pick up, it's good to see you again, last night at the second night of Seder. We reflected on the profound weight of

the Exodus story, obviously, that we tell every year.

[12:35:03]

And we noted that this was the first year that we've observed pass over since October 7th, that there aren't Israeli Jewish hostages being held in

tunnels against their will in Gaza. And I'm wondering as you are speaking to your community and congregation, how you are advising the diaspora in

the world to really reflect upon this moment?

BUCHDAHL: I think I-- I used the hostage Haggadah last year and used clips from it. And I did not imagine that in one year that we could actually have

every single living hostage, and even those who were deceased, back home. I didn't think it was possible.

So, I think what we're reminded of is that much can change even in just one year. And it doesn't just happen through prayers and -- and hopes and

faith, but it also happens through human agency.

And I think that this -- that the -- the constant reminder of our Seder is that each of us have to actually be the ones who reach out for the

outstretched arm that God proffers for us, that we can't actually just sit by and wait for the miracles to happen, that we also have to take the first

steps into that Red Sea as well.

ASHER: Reverend, let me bring you in. Because I think one of the things that makes me really sad is that as a people and as a race, we as humans

sort of seem to have lost sight of what religion is actually supposed to be about.

You know, we have so much that unifies us. I mean, at the end of the day, the Christian, the Jew and the Muslim will all tell you that they have

prayed to a higher power and seen miracles. Every religion that I can think of on earth has a central teaching, loving one another, that love is the

most powerful force and not just loving people when it's easy, by the way, loving people when it is hard, loving people who obviously might be

different, might worship differently from you, might be of a different background, a different race.

I mean, all of these sorts of silly excuses that we use to justify why we hate each other. Every religion talks about love.

Just explain to us from your perspective, why have we lost sight of what religion is supposed to mean?

SUZAN JOHNSON COOK, FORMER AMBASSADOR AT-LARGE FOR INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM: Well, thank you. First of all, let me wish Happy Passover to Rabbi

and blessed Holy Week and to Christians all over the world.

You know, we've lost sight because people have lost hope. And what's important with us, this is Holy Week, which are the last days that Christ

was alive and -- and people were somber and -- and they were hopeless, but then on Good Friday, you know, women went to the tomb.

So it's important that you have women speaking today and they found that there was a resurrected Christ.

And so we brought hope at the end of what looked like despair. And I think people have just forgotten how to hope again that what looks impossible can

have a possibility and that we're following this segment of NASA is really important because, like you said, we're one blue dot when you look at all

of us.

And when you look at us together, we find more of the common ground than what -- what makes us different.

Rabbi and myself are friends, different approaches to the divine, but we still find the common humanity and the love between us. And I think that

that's what's important to find the commonalities, not look at the differences. And that's what makes us blessed and really favored.

GOLODRYGA: I love to hear that the two of you are friends. It is no coincidence that we have four women, no offense to -- to our men or our

male viewers and the men we love in our lives. But it was very important for us to have two women of faith here speaking to our viewers.

And, Rabbi, in addition to all the strife in the world, we've also covered at great lengths the rise in anti-Semitism, the sharp rise in anti-Semitism

over the last few years. We know it has been with -- with Jews in this world for millennia here.

But in this reality, in 2026, when Jews in New York City, the largest Jewish community outside of Israel itself feel nervous and apprehensive

about attending services, about going to synagogues, given the attacks that we've seen around the world, how do you balance both the need for security

to see armed guards outside of temples, to give some sort of support and address anxiety among those congregants, but also not to instill just this

level of fear to be Jewish in America today?

BUCHDAHL: It is a shame that we have to have armed guards outside our synagogues now. And my -- my synagogue has had to do this for over a decade

already.

But I do think that part of what happens is that when you walk in the door, you immediately enter into sanctuary. And that's not just the physical

space, but it's actually the -- the outlook and the music and the joy and the sense of sanctity that's in there.

[12:40:08]

And so I think that we cross into a threshold, and that's part of what sacred space can do for us is it's not just the physical environment, but

it's actually a spiritual uplift that happens.

And I think we transcend what we leave behind at the door when we come in, and that's, I think, the power of what spiritual community can do for each

other. There is so much joy and power. And our sanctuary has been overflowing through the balconies for months.

And really, in some ways, since October 7th that we have never been more full, and I know that's a story that's echoed in synagogues around the

world.

So while we are definitely seeing a rise in the world's oldest hatred of anti-Semitism, unfortunately, and even in New York, the city of so many

Jews in America, we actually have also seen our strength and our resilience and our joyfulness in being together.

ASHER: Reverend, let me ask you the final question.

COOK: And (INAUDIBLE)

ASHER: Yes, go ahead. Yes.

COOK: I want to just add something to that. As an African-American, certainly in a child of the civil rights movement, we've had to have

security for years. And now, there's also the rise of nationalism, Christian nationalism, also threatening us again. So there's security for

us as well.

And so I think at reverend -- rabbi's point, you know, we find joy in the sanctuary. And we find places that we can come together and overcome what

oppresses us, and to reject those things which divide us.

ASHER: Reverend, also, you know, at this time, we're seeing, yes, a lot of anti-Semitism, obviously, we've seen anti-Semitism for centuries, but also

as Islamophobia as well.

So my question to you, Reverend, is for those of us who are not Muslim at this time and not Jewish, how can we show love and compassion for our

Jewish and Muslim brothers and sisters?

COOK: And I think also Christians who are African-Americans are experiencing the same thing was my point. And I think what we do to show

love is that we do things together, such as come together in this broadcast, but there have been Passover Christian Seders together, there

are things that we do with the Islamic community.

And the reason rabbi and I came together was a partnership of faith in New York City, where rabbis and temple leaders and Christian leaders came

together. And we decided we're going to be friends. We're going to be more than just colleagues and peers to run big steeples, but we're going to

exchange our lives and partner together.

And I think when we do that on a small scale and the leadership models, what that can be and not divided, I think that that spreads out to the

broader community.

So we're so glad that we came back together after all of these years. And we have pledged to be friends and colleagues to one another. But we hope

that those who follow also will see that as well.

GOLODRYGA: Well, Reverend, you are the embodiment of faith-based diplomacy. We are so glad that we've ended the show this week, this holy week, with

the two of you with us. Thank you so much for your words of wisdom and for your friendship. Rabbi Angela Buchdahl and

Reverend Suzan Johnson Cook. We appreciate you taking time out with us.

And that does it for "One World" today. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

ASHER: I'm Zain Asher. "Marketplace Africa" is up next.

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