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One World with Zain Asher
U.S. Officials: U.S. Strikes Military Targets On Kharg Island; Trump Demands Iran Reopen Strait Of Hormuz By 8:00 PM ET; New Strikes Reported Across The Middle East; U.S. Oil Prices Surge Again After Strikes On Kharg Island; Kanye West Blocked From Traveling To The U.K.; Trump Threatens Iran's Power Plants, Bridges If No Deal; How iPhones Made It To Space; Aired 12-1p ET
Aired April 07, 2026 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:00:31]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Zain Asher. You are watching "One World."
GOLODRYGA: In the past few hours, U.S. sources say the U.S. has struck military targets on Kharg Island in Iran. That is a critical transit point
for almost all of Iran's oil exports. Though a U.S. official says oil facilities were not struck.
Elsewhere in Iran, Israel is targeting railways and bridges, this according to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The IDF had warned Iranians
to avoid railway routes, though it's unclear if that message was widely received given Iran's internet blackout.
ASHER: Yes. All this says President Trump has given Iran a stunning new ultimatum if it does not open or reopen, rather, the Strait of Hormuz by
8:00 P.M. Eastern Time. He says, quote, "A whole civilization will die tonight. Never to be brought back again. I don't want that to happen, but
it probably will."
Speaking in Hungary, the U.S. vice president says that there will be a lot of negotiation before the deadline comes into effect, but insists the war
is nearly over.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States has largely accomplished its military objectives. There are still some things
that we'd like to do, for example, on Iranian ability to manufacture weapons that we'd like to do a little bit more work on militarily, but
fundamentally, the military objectives of the United States have been completed.
So that means, as the president has said, very shortly this war is going to conclude. And I think the nature of the conclusion is ultimately up to the
Iranians.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHER: Jim Sciutto is in Tel Aviv with developments from the Middle East. We've got Alayna Treene as well with the latest from the White House.
Jim, let me start with you. Just in terms of Donald Trump's threat on social media, this idea of destroying a whole civilization, a whole
civilization will die tonight is -- is what he said.
It's obvious that we shouldn't necessarily take Donald Trump's rhetoric at face value. However, one of the reasons why these comments are so striking
is because the civilians in Iran are the ones that he has vowed from the onset of this war to protect, Jim.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF SECURITY ANALYST: It's true. Listen, if you take out the -- the range of civilian infrastructure that the President is talking
about here, every electrical power plant means no electricity for Iran. Every bridge or highway means Iranians cannot get around their country.
Right now the -- now, the -- the argument that the U.S. is making, and by the way, Israel has made today, as it has already begun strikes on Iranian
infrastructure taking out bridges, taking out rail lines, the argument they make is that, well, the Revolutionary Guards use these roads and bridges to
transport weapons, et cetera.
And -- and by the law of war, they may very well be able to make such a case. The trouble is, to your point, Zain, given that the president has
said that this war is, in part, intended to help the people of Iran take their country, it is -- it is worth remembering the Iranian people will
suffer from attacks like this, much like we have covered for years now, Russian attacks on civilian infrastructure in Ukraine and the suffering of
the Ukrainian people as a result of those attacks.
So -- so I -- I would say we're at a very critical point in this war. And - - and listening to the -- to the two comments from J.D. Vance and then the -- the -- the tweet from Trump, as you were introducing me, the contrast is
marked. You have the vice president saying, well, all the goals, or most of the goals are met, but the president is saying, he's about to expand the
goals, the targets of this war, which is true. We don't know. We will know in a few hours as to whether the president keeps that deadline.
[12:05:08]
And to your point, he has made deadlines before and broken through those deadlines, but if he does follow through, and if there is truth and meaning
behind the civilization-will-end line, which is jarring to anyone who hears it, then there's going to be a major escalation.
The -- the final point I'll make is this. We just had two consecutive air raid signals here in Tel Aviv. So from the Iranian side, it is certainly
still striking out at Israel and other neighbors in the region, whether that's an indication as to their footing in these negotiations, we don't
know, but the tempo of those strikes is not slowed.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. And we know the Iranian regime has threatened to black out the entire Middle East, if the United States pursues sort of this
maximalist threat from the president of the United States.
Jim Sciutto, thank you.
Alayna Treene, I want to turn to you because it's hard to find even any Republicans that can support this particular rhetoric from the president.
They continue to say, the focus is on the infrastructure facilities that the military has been using and not on the civilians.
What are you hearing about what's happening behind the scenes? There's a lot of bombast being put publicly on social media. Are there still
negotiations and talks being had in these last few hours as we're approaching this ultimatum?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. We've been hearing a lot of reports, particularly from the Iranian saying that there are no direct
communications. Of course, the intermediaries who have been crucial to this entire process trying to pass messages between the United States and the
Iranians continue to work hard to see if they can find some sort of deal or at least some sort of interim, you know, temporary type of truce that they
could potentially put into effect to stave off, you know, this kind of very exaggerated, almost, message from the president, this idea that a whole
civilization will die tonight if Iran does not heed his call to reopen the strait by the 8:00 P.M. deadline that he has set.
Now, we did hear from the vice president that negotiations are continuing. It's still very much unclear, though, the extent of those talks and the
willingness, of course, on each side to really try to come to a some sort of agreement here to prevent these attacks.
Now, I will say just from everything I've been reading from the president, Jim laid everything out very well. I think a lot of what we are seeing
today, particularly with this really aggressive, ratchet up rhetoric from the president, is all about trying to exert as much pressure as possible on
the Iranians to try and find, you know, kind of force them to the table here and get them to agree before the president needs to escalate.
Now, I will say from the conversations I've had, again, I think a lot of people at the White House and throughout the administration are being very
tightlipped about any specific plans, but they do say that the president -- these aren't hollow threats, that he is moving forward. He is ready to
escalate.
And I do think he has now pushed this off so many times this, you know, apparent deadline. First, he pushed it by 10 days, he did it another day,
that there could be, you know, definitely some sort of action we see.
But I think the extent of it, and particularly to your point, Bianna and Zain, this idea of the extent of their attacks on civilian infrastructure,
things like energy plants, bridges, desalinization sites, that is still very much unknown.
I do think, though, one of the things that struck me the most listening to President Trump yesterday when he addressed reporters at a news conference
mid-day, he said, you know, he acknowledged that the Iranian people, the civilian population of Iran, will suffer if he moves forward with his
planned attacks.
But then he added that he believes that they are willing to suffer. And those are his words. They are willing to suffer for eventual freedom.
Now, of course, very much unclear if that's actually how the people on the ground in Iran are actually feeling. But that was his message to reporters
yesterday all to say, I think. There is, of course, a lot going on behind the scenes, kind of racing toward trying to figure out whether or not they
can come to some sort of, again, compromise, anything that the United States might be able to point to, to show that they could be negotiating in
good faith and maybe stave off these attacks. But as of now, it's very much unclear.
ASHER: Jim, so what does compromise look like here? Because as of now, both sides remain so far apart, they're really sticking to their guns when it
comes to these sort of maximalist demands that are very incompatible on the face of it.
So, where would, at least, the United States have to sort of give some wiggle room, give an inch to Iran, be willing to compromise, in order for
there to be some glimmer of hope in terms of a deal, Jim?
SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, listen, the two main issues outstanding are Iran's nuclear program and reopening the Strait of Hormuz, as well as other
issues. The U.S. is demanding Iran stop supporting its proxies around the region and its ballistic missile program, et cetera.
[12:10:09]
But in terms of focus, the nuclear program and opening the Strait of Hormuz, and on that point, the two sides are quite far apart. The U.S.
wanting no nuclear program. Iran insisting on keeping its nuclear program, including the right to -- to enrichment.
And then, if you look at the Strait of Hormuz, the president wants an unconditional opening of the strait, and Iran wants to maintain some sort
of control. So, it -- it's hard to figure out what that interim ground is.
And there had been some discussion that the first step would be getting to a ceasefire, 45-day ceasefire. You've heard that timeline thrown about. And
then you discuss those other harder issues. It's not unlike the Gaza peace plan, right?
Started with a ceasefire, and then they left the most difficult issues, including, for instance, disarming Hamas till later. And -- and to date,
Hamas has not been disarmed, right?
So sometimes you could -- you could make a ceasefire and say you're going to decide the other issues in time and never get there, right? Or at least
not in good time. So it's just not clear.
And it -- it -- it's frankly not clear what the substance is of the negotiations, whether direct talks have existed at any point, are the
indirect communications open? We just don't know. And, you know, that's the issue with deadlines, right? Is that you set up a -- a kind of wall, right?
And do you break through that brick wall? Or do you stay on the other side of it? You know, the president's got a decision to make in, well, a few
hours' time.
ASHER: All right. Jim Sciutto, live for us there in Tel Aviv. Thank you so much.
All right. Let's focus on what the attack on Kharg Island means in terms of U.S. strategy. Joining us live now is General Wesley Clark, who served as
NATO's Supreme Allied Commander in Europe.
And it's important to note, General, that the U.S. has struck military targets on Kharg Island, not necessarily energy infrastructure just yet,
although the president has threatened that.
Do you foresee a scenario in which the U.S. actually goes for the extreme option here and actually follows through and strikes energy infrastructure
on Kharg Island?
I mean, obviously, that would be an economic -- economic destruction, obviously, for the Iranians, because that is where 90 percent of their oil
exports come from. They export most of their oil, obviously, to China, but it would be a massive blow to the U.S. economy as well, just in terms of
oil prices.
I mean, it would be literally like the final scene of "Reservoir Dogs." That would be how bad it would be. Just give us your -- your thoughts on
that, General.
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER EUROPE: Well, I think certainly the bombing of Kharg Island raises the issue that
you could bomb other things on Kharg Island. And -- and that's clearly the intent.
But it also could be preparatory for, let's say, putting the Marines ashore. And there's always been talk about, let's seize Kharg Island.
I'm not a big advocate of that, but if you want to put a raid in on Kharg Island and go in there and be in there on the ground and control it for a
few hours or a few days and get out as long, as you're not trying to hold on to a position and letting yourself become targets, maybe it makes sense.
The other thing is, it's just also a part of going back and re-looking at targets that have been previously struck, because whenever you're in an air
campaign like this, and we're in the about six weeks or getting close to six weeks maybe, you start to run low on targets.
It's just a fact. You can only generate so many targets that look valuable. And Kharg Island is very valuable. And maybe the Iranians have replaced
some of the military gear that was struck the last time.
So it could be routine. But I imagine there's a message to it. And that message is, right now, we're striking the military and, Zain, just as you
suggest, it will be very hard to come back and take out the rest of that infrastructure there.
GOLODRYGA: And, general, as we had noted in our previous conversation with Alayna and Jim, Iran has responded by saying that if the United States does
follow through on its threats, then it will darken all of the Middle East and the region there.
Thus far, we have seen GCC countries quite resilient and reticent to join in on this fight. They have been defensive only in their response to
incoming ballistic missiles and drones.
If Iran follows through on those threats, do you foresee other Arab countries joining the United States and Israel?
CLARK: I do see them joining in some limited and symbolic way. They obviously don't have the full capacity of the United States, but they do
have modern equipment. They've got some pretty well-trained pilots. They've got ordnance and they can participate in this.
And maybe more than symbolically, yes. And I think that's a scenario that honestly none of us want to see happen. We don't want to see these
countries hit. We don't want their desalination plants hit and -- and their petroleum infrastructure hit.
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The whole world depends on the resources coming out of this fertilizer, helium, as well as crude oil and -- and refined products. And so it just
digs us deeper into a whole, economically, for the whole world. So I hope it won't happen.
But nevertheless, Iran has to recognize that it's intolerable for them to claim that they will keep permanent control of the Strait of Hormuz.
Our friends in the gulf will never accept that. They don't want it. They don't want to be under the Iranian thumb. And they don't trust around
larger motivations in the region. So that's -- that's not a possible end state that's stable.
ASHER: General, there have been several times in the past where a lot of people, and I would put myself in this category, have witnessed Trump make
certain threats and sort of dismissed it as, oh, you know what, he's never going to actually go ahead and do that, including threatening to capture
Nicolas Maduro or threatening to kill the ayatollah of Iran, a lot of people saw those threats as bluster until they woke up several weeks later,
checked their phone and saw him actually do it.
And so when Donald Trump threatens to obliterate power plants in Iran, which would be, of course, devastating to the Iranian civilians, it would
leave them in darkness and without electricity, do you actually foresee the president following through on those threats?
CLARK: I think there'll be an examination of the power plants and the other infrastructure that is dual use. And so the question will be, is that power
plant providing electricity to universities that are doing military research? Is it providing electricity to factories that are producing
military products or chemical plants that are producing gunpowder and other things for -- for the military?
If there's a connection to the military, if it's dual use, it's a legitimate target. And even if it creates civilian hardship, it's still a
legitimate target.
You know, before the United States invaded -- and -- and the allies crossed the English Channel in 1944, we spent about two months going after
infrastructure in Northern France. We went after bridges and railroads and -- and -- and marshalling yards and everything that could have possibly
helped German forces maneuver against us.
And a lot of civilian casualties were incurred. And these were among our French friends. And it's just what happens in warfare.
So these are -- there are going to be some dual use targets that are totally legitimate and that no doubt will be struck.
ASHER: Yes. That's actually one of the things that the Israelis said when they sort of targeted certain railroad infrastructures, that it was dual
use and used by the IRGC. And that's one of the reasons why they struck the railways in Israel as well.
General Wesley Clark, live for us there. Thank you so much.
GOLODRYGA: Well, U.S. crude oil prices have surged again this Tuesday after the U.S. struck military targets as we noted on Kharg Island, the hub,
which most of Iran's crude oil exports flow through.
ASHER: Now let's take a look and see how oil prices are faring. Right now, West Texas crude oil has doubled in price since the start of 2026.
Latest jump came after President Trump issued a new deadline to Tehran, demanding the reopening of the Strait of Hormuz by eight o'clock this
evening.
GOLODRYGA: PCNN's Anna Cooban has the latest from London.
And as we're looking at Brent oil, just barely breaking even there below one-tenth of a percentage point. WTI, up two and a half percent. Just talk
about the market's reaction as we get closer and to this 8:00 P.M. deadline.
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: Well, so two things are happening. The first thing is that we're still in the exact same sort of
fundamental situation with the Strait of Hormuz being blocked after the vast majority of vessels going through.
But also at the same time, we've got this escalation in rhetoric from Donald Trump. It's a deadline that's approaching. I think many people are
hoping that this is a so-called taco moment, the -- the term that's been coined, Trump Always Chickens Out. Hopefully, this will be another
extension of the deadline or a reversal of this position.
But also some material escalations have happened. This attack on Kharg Island. U.S. officials says that no oil facilities have been targeted, but
just military facilities. But even so, this is a huge part of Iran's energy infrastructure. Just the fact that it's been targeted is pretty worrying
from the oil market perspective.
And I just want to go back to those prices again. So you've got this doubling of the U.S. oil price, but also Brent. It's still trading very
high. It was around $60 a barrel at the start of the year. But this is a futures contract. This is looking at what investors are paying for oil that
they are going to get a few weeks this month's time.
[12:20:14]
But actually, the oil that's being paid for today, it's called Dated Brent, the stuff that you're actually buying physically on the ground.
This is really hard. This week, it's surpassed $140 a barrel, the highest level since 2008. And so this really reflects a sense of unease, you know,
to -- to put it lightly among investors, among oil traders, about these physical shortages they are fearing we're going to see across the world.
We're seeing them already in Asia in the next few weeks, if this situation doesn't resolve itself.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Anna Cooban in London. We'll be watching these prices closely. Thank you.
ASHER: All right. Still to come, the show will not go on. Why the music festival that booked controversial artist Kanye West now says it is pulling
the plug on the whole event.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: Well, Kanye West has been blocked from traveling to the United Kingdom after controversy over his planned performance at a London music
festival.
ASHER: Yes. He was set to headline the Wireless Festival, but that event has now been cancelled. West's anti-Semitic remarks in recent years had
sparked anger and key sponsors pulled out of the event. West had offered to meet with members of British -- Britain's Jewish community, saying, my only
goal is to come to London and present a show of change, bringing unity, peace, and love through my music.
Joining us live now is Lisa's Respers France. So he was banned from the U.K., and U.K. officials gave the reason that his presence in the U.K.
would not be for the public good.
One of the things at the Wireless Festival, though that's been cancelled now, one of the things that they said was that all stakeholders, and that
includes obviously sponsors, knew about the fact that Kanye West was going to headline this event before.
It's not sort of, they suddenly realized last week that he was sponsoring the event, and then they pulled out, all of a sudden, no, they knew on the
front end. And so that's one of the things that they hinted at in their statement, which I thought was important to note as well, Lisa.
LISA RESPERS FRANCE, CNN REPORTER: Yes. I think that it's important to note, but I think people underestimated how big the backlash was going to
be.
I mean, Kanye, back in January, took out a full page ad in the "Wall Street Journal" to apologize for his past anti-Semitic remarks, but the reality of
the situation is we've been here before. He's made anti-Semitic remarks in the past, he's apologized, then he's turned around and made anti-Semitic
remarks again, and then apologized.
[12:25:11]
So, you know, there's been a lot of conversation about can we trust it? And we meaning, you know, his fan base, the world, when he says now that he
really means it. That he feels bad for the things that he said in the past. And that he wouldn't like to make amends.
And I think we should also point out that he just came off of sold out shows at the SoFi Stadium in Los Angeles. So, people still enjoy seeing
Kanye West perform.
And, you know, despite the many years of him being extremely controversial, there's a lot of conversation right now as to whether or not Ye can be
canceled because, you know, he still has a strong fan base.
I mean, celebrities turned out to see him at SoFi. So, you know, he -- he does have people who still want to hear from him and still want to see him
perform his art, ladies, so.
ASHER: All right. Lisa Respers France, live for us. Thank you so much.
FRANCE: Thank you.
GOLODRYGA: All right. Coming up for us, no breakthroughs in negotiations. Details ahead on what President Trump is demanding from Iran ahead of
tonight's deadline. And why his threats are raising legal concerns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GOLODRYGA: All right. Welcome back to "One World." I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: And I'm Zain Asher. An Israeli security source says their military is on standby for more strikes ahead of President Trump's 8:00 P.M.
deadline for Iran to reopen the Strait of Hormuz.
CNN is also told the U.S. struck military targets on Kharg Island as well. The island is, of course, an economic lifeline for Tehran.
It handles roughly 90 percent of the country's oil exports. However, U.S. officials says, the oil facilities were not struck.
GOLODRYGA: Meantime, diplomats from countries across the region haven't given up hopes of an agreement between the warring sides, but their efforts
received a setback after neither Iran nor the U.S. agreed to a last-ditch proposal for a 45-day ceasefire.
[12:30:07]
Now, if the Strait of Hormuz remains closed, Trump is threatening to bomb bridges and power plants across Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The entire country can be taken out in one night. And that night might be tomorrow night. We're
giving them till tomorrow, eight o'clock Eastern Time.
And after that, they're going to have no bridges, they're going to have no power plants, stone ages, yes.
Burning, exploding, and never to be used again. I mean, complete demolition by 12 o'clock. And it'll happen over a period of four hours, if we wanted
to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Now experts say attacks targeting civilian infrastructure could be considered a war crime. Time now for "The Exchange."
Joining us is CNN national security analyst, Peter Bergen, live from Washington. Peter, welcome back to the program. It's good to see you.
So, as we've just reported direct talks, at least from what Iran is stating, are not happening, but there are talks behind the scenes. It
appears from the Supreme National Security Council there in Iran and the new head of the IRGC along with intel chiefs from both Turkey and I believe
Egypt trying to mediate directly.
Do you think, given that we're now seven and a half hours from the president's deadline, there is still an off-ramp that Iran is looking for?
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, I mean if you look at the sort of 15-point proposal of the United States put forward to the
Iranians and the five-point proposal they put back, there's not a -- you know, a big difference.
And I mean the only thing the United States is really offering the Iranians at this point is sanctions relief. You know, there's been talk by the
Iranians of getting reparations. That's not going to happen. So, you know, things are far apart.
The ceasefire, you know, the Iranians want an end to the war. What they -- they don't want is to be in the situations. They see the Gazans or the
Lebanese and Southern Lebanon where Israel is going in and mowing the grass as it's so-called. And the war sort of continuing at infinitum. They want a
definite end to hostilities.
Now, would they be prepared to accept some sort of ceasefire? I don't know. But I mean I do think that Trump -- President Trump has kind of dug himself
in. This is the fifth time in the -- during the war that he's given some big ultimatum and this ultimatum deals pretty large.
So, could you imagine, Bianna, a situation where there are limited strikes and there's also a -- an agreement by all concerned that diplomatic
negotiations have advanced far enough that they should continue. So you kind of get your cake and eat it too.
But I mean, the only person who knows, of course, is the commander-in- chief. And we will find out at 8:00 P.M. Eastern what is actually going to happen.
ASHER: The president, I'm sure, knows, and I'm sure his advisors understand that there is very little chance that extreme military might and extreme
military pressure is going to be the thing that gets Iran to reopen the Strait of Hormuz when that is really the only card that they have to play.
And so if eight o'clock passes tonight, Eastern Time, and, you know, Trump has to make a decision, what will stepping up military targets on Iran,
especially on civilian infrastructure, what would that achieve?
BERGEN: Well, I think you're right, Zain. It won't -- it won't achieve things directly, but it will achieve the following, which is instead of,
you know, attacking energy production facilities in neighboring Gulf states, Iran could then sort of start attacking civilian targets in the
Gulf states, i.e. upping the ante.
And I thought it was very interesting, by the way, I think it was March 19th that the Iranians struck the town of Dimona, which is the center of
Israel's nuclear weapon facility and they've done it again. And I think that was their way of demonstrating.
We can keep going up the escalation ladder. Let's, of course, we stipulate, of course, the United States military is much more powerful than the
Iranians, but clearly, they have missiles left, they have thousands of drones left and they also have a -- you know, many of the people that are
now running the show are veterans of the Iran-Iraq war. They were in their late teens or early 20s and that was an eight-year war in which a million
people died and Iran took tremendous casualties, sent 15-year-old boys into minefields to clear them, you know, convinced that they would be martyred
if they died.
So this doesn't suggest somebody and a regime that is simply going to fold. So the -- the -- it's sort of a bank shot if we're going to attack civilian
targets in Iran or if Israel and the United States together do this.
I think the response will be, you know, attacks -- well, it's not an accident that sort of the Bahrain embassy is basically, you know, closing
down right now. Of course, Bahrain has a large Shia population. And the -- the American embassy in Bahrain is closing. So there will be more of that.
[12:35:04]
I mean, so the -- the response -- I don't think -- you know, unlimited or military pressure is not necessarily going to get the things that we want,
the United States wants. But I think pressure from our allies in the Gulf is -- is, you know, that -- it is so important they want this to end.
The Saudis, by the way, just -- just today, there were, you know, intercepts -- Saudi Arabia had to, you know, bring down missiles coming in
their direction.
You know, the Saudis want this thing settled, even though they're getting some oil out through the other route, not through the Straits of Hormuz,
but over on the other side of the country. You know, they are suffering giant losses every day in terms of their -- their oil exports.
GOLODRYGA: And, Peter, Iran also is known and potentially is in a position, once again, to overplay its hand in controlling what goes in and out of the
Strait of Hormuz here. And there are a lot of regional neighbors who have a lot to lose too.
BERGEN: Yes.
GOLODRYGA: Do you see -- and -- and there are those, including John Bolton and others, who have suggested that Iran basically holding the strait
hostage is an opportunity for the United States and other allies to -- to hold it back, to basically say that if you're allowing some of your ships
to go through, we're going to make it as such that no ships go through.
Do you think that that is something that the United States and other regional countries could feasibly do?
BERGEN: I mean, maybe. I mean, I -- you know, that -- it's sort of a mixed bag because, you know, the less oil on the market, whether it's Iranian oil
or Iraqi oil or oil that's going to China, whatever, I mean, you know, it's going to drive prices up.
So, ultimately, you know, if you -- it -- it serves no one's interest to completely close the strait, including the Iranians letting their own ships
through and all people like those reports of French ships getting through.
So, I -- I don't think that's going to happen. I think what will happen, and this is looking out in the future, we're looking at the map right now.
So if Saudi Arabia is getting 10 million barrels a day out on the other side of the country through the -- through the -- you know, through the Red
Sea route, you know, the Houthis have not really interfered with that right now, which is interesting. They're allied with Iran. They did close down
that particular kind of shipping route for some period of time up till 2025.
So, you know, people are going to be looking for other routes, but you can't create these routes overnight. Building the kind of infrastructure
that would, you know, move oil so we're less dependent on the Straits of Hormuz is going to take time. But surely that is, in the longer term,
solution to some of this.
ASHER: One of the things you mentioned, I thought was interesting, is that we've seen a number of these deadlines that Donald Trump has created, and -
- and we've sort of blown through them.
And one analyst I was speaking to earlier said that one strong possibility is that we get to eight o'clock Eastern Time tonight, and the president
says that, you know, we -- we're still negotiating with the Iranians. They appear to be negotiating in good faith. I'm going to extend the deadline
for another week or another 48 hours, whether it's true or not true is besides the point, but that would allow the president an out.
But when it comes to projecting American strength, what message does that send to the Iranian regime?
BERGEN: I mean, we've sent so many mixed messages. I mean, it's just -- it -- it -- you know, it's very hard to predict, obviously, what President
Trump's going to do.
But I -- you know, I -- I -- in the - in the first Trump term, Trump said something pretty interesting that yes to this, I'm going to destroy their
civilization. He -- he said, I could end the Afghan war in a week, but I would kill 10 million people, which seemed to imply that he might be
prepared to use nuclear weapons. Of course, that didn't happen. And I'm not suggesting it would in this case.
But the point is he's made these very kind of grandiose threats, many -- you know, quite often before. It's not the first time that he's -- that
he's done this. And he's, of course, he's always sort of stepped back.
So, I mean, we will find out at eight o'clock. I -- I imagine, Zain, that what you were saying makes sort of sense that those strikes will continue
in a limited way. The diplomacy will continue in a limited way.
And don't forget, of course, Israel is doing a lot of the strikes that the United States military might not be inclined to do that on some of these
more civilian targets, for instance, railways, et cetera, et cetera, which we've seen today.
And -- and that's a division of labor we've seen before. You know, the United States military -- the United States is not supposed to engage in
assassinations. And so we've seen a sort of division of labor between the Israelis and the Americans where Israelis are carrying out all the
assassinations of the high-ranking religious and political figures in Iran, something the United States has not done, even if it's providing the
intelligence for some of these strikes.
So there is a sort of division of labor here. You could imagine the U.S. military not taking as many shots at civilian targets as the Israelis do as
part of this, you know, what we're going to see unfold over the next several hours.
[12:40:11]
GOLODRYGA: Yes. You're talking about good cop, bad cop, role here. There's, you know, hardly a serious person that would suggest that Israel would go
on its own without getting some sort of at least tacit approval from the United States for making some of these more controversial strikes at this
point.
But your argument holds that at least it gives the United States plausible deniability to say it wasn't us, it was them.
Peter, again, the clock is ticking. It's anyone's guess. One person knows. Perhaps he hasn't even made up his mind at this point. But appreciate --
BERGEN: I totally -- by the way, Bianna, I totally agree with that. I'm not sure he's made up his mind.
GOLODRYGA: Yes. Well, we'll see. We'll see what communications, what -- where these negotiations may go between now and then.
Peter, it's good to see you. Thank you.
BERGEN: Good to see you. Bye.
ASHER: All right. It is the start of the journey home for the four astronauts on board NASA's Orion spacecraft after a historic flyby of the
moon.
GOLODRYGA: Do they really want to go home -- come home?
(CROSSTALK)
ASHER: (INAUDIBLE) apparently. The Artemis II mission is in day seven. The crew is awake and will soon make a ship to ship core (ph) to the
International Space Station.
GOLODRYGA: And in a little over an hour, they will be outside of the Lunar Sphere of Influence as they make their way back home.
Artemis II commander Reid Wiseman and his crew were given permission to bring consumer devices like iPhones to send space images back to Earth.
CNN's Jackie Wattles explains how the products were cleared to launch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REID WISEMAN, MISSION COMMANDER: We do have personal computing devices, so we -- we can load stuff on them. We also got iPhones recently. So, I don't
think I could actually say that as a government employee.
We have small, highly powerful computing devices that we'll take with us without standing cameras.
JACKIE WATTLES, CNN SPACE AND SCIENCE WRITER: Shot on iPhone just taken to a new level space.
NASA's astronauts took these breathtaking photos of Earth with an iPhone. NASA's administrator, Jared Isaacman, said these devices are, quote, to
capture special moments for their families and share inspiring images and video with the world.
But it wasn't just iPhones. This spacecraft was equipped with all sorts of camera gear like Nikon cameras for the astronauts and there's GoPros
attached to the vehicle's exterior.
But had it an iPhone make its way onto Orion? In the past, hardware has had to go through a lengthily process called "hardening" before flying to
space, which makes electronics more hardy and resistant to radiation.
These iPhones are coming straight off the shelf. But to get these devices on board, NASA had to conduct an extensive safety analysis, making sure the
phones won't pose any risk to the crew as they float about the cabin, potentially bumping into things.
According to Apple, the company wasn't involved in NASA's approval process, but this is the first time that an iPhone has been qualified for extended
use in space.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOLODRYGA: Making history once again.
All right. That does it for "One World." I'm Bianna Golodryga.
ASHER: I'm Zain Asher. "African Voices" is up next. And she'll be back in 15 minutes with "Amanpour."
GOLODRYGA: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AFRICAN VOICES)
[13:00:00]
END
